530. Is Podcasting Having an Identity Crisis?

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Marc Ronick: Good morning,

podcasters.

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Today is Wednesday, june 3, 2026
and today it's our
podcast

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00:00:13,611 --> 00:00:17,286
news and comment edition.
As podcasting's
identity

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crisis continues, we'll explore
video sustainability,
AI's

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impact on listener value and
who's trying to redefine


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podcasting behind the scenes.
So, if you're listening live on

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00:00:28,210 --> 00:00:30,963
Clubhouse, hit the share
button, top right-hand side of

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00:00:30,963 --> 00:00:33,870
the
screen, and share it
however Clubhouse lets you.

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00:00:33,870 --> 00:00:37,398
And if
you're catching us via
podcast, YouTube, etc. please

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00:00:37,398 --> 00:00:40,044
share this
with a fellow
podcaster.

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00:00:40,044 --> 00:00:43,922
Now, give us about 30 seconds,
and
we'll get things rolling.

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Thanks for being here.
The podcasting
morning chat is

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powered by Ironick Media,
helping
podcasters launch,

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00:00:57,164 --> 00:01:01,418
polish, and grow great shows,
and by Content
Creators

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00:01:01,418 --> 00:01:14,268
Accountant, helping creators
build real business
behind

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their content.
Good morning again, podcasting


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morning show.
Thank you so much for being

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here.
I am your host,
Mark Ronick,

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and currently on stage with me,
my co-hosts, we
have Ralph

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Estep, Dr. Fay, Sid Meadows, BC
Babbles, and also I
believe,

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wow, we've got on stage from the
audience Dan Schultz,
Tide

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Tutoring, and also DJ Rez has
joined us.

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It's been a
minute since we've
had you here, Rez.

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Good to see you as well,
and
thank you all for being here

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today.
Before we dive into all
the

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headlines around the world of
podcasting, I want to remind


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you that if you'd like your
podcast featured on the


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Podcasting Morning Show.
Submit a 62nd clip about your

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00:02:05,095 --> 00:02:08,919
show at
Podcasting Morning
show.com/spotlight If we select

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00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:14,730
your 62nd clip, we'll play it
on a future episode, share what

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stood out, and obviously
introduce your show to our


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entire community of podcasters
and creators.

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So, again, all you
got to do
is go to Podcasting Morning

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show.com/spotlight You
can
fill out the quick form, include

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an audio or video clip.

Again, try to keep it to 60

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seconds, and we would love for

it to be you sharing about your

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show with us, as opposed to just

playing a random clip from one

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of your episodes, because we

really want to get to know you

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and your show with our

community, so do that today.

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Thank you in advance.
All right,
Ralph, hit the news

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music, please.
All right, so we're
gonna dive

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into the news, and yes, normally
I don't ask Ralph
to hit every

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button for every sound effect,
but I am remote
today from

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Atlantic City, New Jersey, and
we have, through
trial and

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error, discovered that it's
easiest, for whatever
reason,

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my sounds aren't coming through
when I'm playing them to
our

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Clubhouse community, so Ralph is
leading the charge
here, so

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here's how I like to start our
news and comment with
some

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podcast data for you.
This is the active podcasts in

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the
entire world of
podcasting, and when I say

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active, this is a
helpful
number to understand the amount

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of podcasts being
created, and
that number is based on the

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total number of
these active
podcasts.

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These are podcasts that are
still being
updated and

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therefore actively marketing
themselves.

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If you're
making podcast
episodes, you might consider

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this number to be
your
competition rather than the big

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overall 4.6 million podcasts

that just simply exist out

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there, but don't necessarily do
anything to keep those podcasts

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going.
So, the new episodes in
the

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last week that are considered
active, the new pod,
or the

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podcasts that are considered
active over the past
week,

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581,467 which is up 3.4% from
the previous week, and if


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you're curious about the last 30
days, 2.3 million and change are

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considered active podcasts.
That's down 2.3% from the


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previous month.
Okay, with that, we're gonna go

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roll into Dr. two
top five
lists.

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Dr. I think we're starting with
business
podcasts.

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DR: Yeah, hey, good morning

everyone.

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So, let's see, we're going to
start with Apple's
business

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podcast, the top five.
Okay, so number five is Money


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Rehab with Nicole Appen.
One number four is the Ramsey

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show,
of course, that's Dave
Ramsey.

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Number three is Real AF with

Andy Frizzella.

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Number two is Unblinded with
Shot.

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Oh, what,
that was..
I did a terrible job on that

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one.
Start that tippity
again.

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Marc Ronick: There it is.
DR: Number two is Unblinded with

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Sean Callogie, and number one
is is is Digital Social Hour

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with
Sean Kelly, Marc Ronick:
real AF Andy
Frizzella.

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The only reason why I'm pointing
that out is because
although I

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don't really follow him
regularly.

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I will say that
he was a big
influence in my life because he

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is the creator
of the 75 hard
program, and I did that back in

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late 2021 75
days in a row of
the five critical tasks,

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drinking a
gallon of water a
day, reading at least 10 pages

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of a book,
nonfiction, two
workouts a day, 45 minutes each

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minimum, and one
must be
outside, rain or shine.

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You have to take a picture of

yourself as well every day, like

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a progress picture, and there's
one more that's just escaped

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me, and I'm embarrassed that it
escaped me, but nonetheless, an

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amazing program, he's built an

entire huge community from this

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75 hard program, and it is, it

is definitely a life-changing

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experience, for sure, it really
shows you that you can do hard

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things, and despite all the

things that go on in your life,

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if you commit to something and

really commit to it for

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yourself, you'd be amazed at

what you can accomplish.

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So, if you're interested in
that, let
me know more.

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Let me know, and I'll share more
with you about..


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I DR: am..
I am not interested in


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changing my life, that is for
sure.

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Okay, so the next chart is

from it's Spotify's health and

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fitness, and I want you to

listen to number five and number

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four, okay?
Because they are
sleep all

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about sleep, okay?
So number five is sleep escape,

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sleep meditation, and hypnosis.
Number four is eight hour sleep

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music.
Number three, okay, on purpose

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with Jay Shetty.
Number
two is the Dr. John

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Deloney show, and the number one
show is
Huberman's Lab.

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Oh, Huberman Lab.
Sorry, there's no S on
that,

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Marc Ronick: yes, yes, all

right, cool, awesome, all good

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shows there, for sure.
And
Huberman Lab, definitely

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one that I check in on on
occasion.


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Great show, DR: interesting.
The top five,
two of them are

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about sleep, Marc Ronick: yeah,
that is
interesting.

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Yeah, I mean, look, we're in a
stressed out society,
so I'm

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not surprised that people are
looking for sleeping


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solutions.
Dr, you and I deal with with

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sleeping challenges
for sure.
DR: Yeah, Marc Ronick: yeah,

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awesome.
All
right, Ralph, give me some

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news music.
See, you know that Ralph
knows

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the show really well because he
had his finger on the
button

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ready to go.
Before I didn't even need to cue

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him.

Let's get into some events

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around the world of podcasting.


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First, a company called Coleman
Insights is putting podcast


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trailers under the microscope
with new research-driven


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webinar.
Let me say that again.

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Webinar called Podcast Hard DR:
in the Morning.

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Marc Ronick: Yeah, I didn't say
it on, yeah.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: Unfortunately,
I don't have that queued up

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today, because I changed my

broadcaster, so I apologize.

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Oh, good.
I'm Marc Ronick: glad the

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webinar is
called Podcast
Trailers, a playbook for

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producing
successful teasers.
It's happening today, june 3, at

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1pm
Eastern.
I'll share the link with you in

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just a moment, and
it will be
in the show notes.

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I'm not sure if it'll make it,

it'll publish in time.

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Nonetheless, let me tell you

about this.

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The session signed DR: up for
it.

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Marc Ronick: You did.
Oh, cool.


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Okay, I DR: did.
Marc Ronick: The session created

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with Nova Entertainment,
Pantheon Media, and Ear Buds


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Podcast Collective, is based on
a study of 500 US podcast


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listeners, and looks at what
people actually remember from


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trailers, which create choices,
grab attention, and what makes


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someone more likely to hit play.
They'll break down four real


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podcast trailers to show what
works, what flops, and why


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translation for podcasters, your
trailer may be doing a lot more

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heavy lifting than you think,
and if it sounds like an


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afterthought, your audience may
treat your whole show the same


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way.
I will share this here right

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now, in case you're

interested, and I do think that

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this is.
This could be helpful.


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Look, I don't know what they've
put together, so you know your


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guess is as good as mine, but
the concept makes a lot of


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sense, especially these days,
because I think that a lot of us

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independent DIY podcasters are
putting out average trailers,


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and I'm not saying everyone, so
don't get offended, I might not

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be talking about you
specifically, but look, I do


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this too, right?
Like, I just put out clips from

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the show, and
sometimes those
may serve well and may hit the

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right people and
hit the right
spot, but at the same time,

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there's so many of
them out
there that I think that it

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becomes a little bit noise of

noise for people when you're

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scrolling, I think putting

together something that's more

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eye-catching, ear-catching,

something more like Diary of a

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CEO is my guess.
Of one of the
ones they're

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going to point out is one of the
good ones.

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I think
if we can make these
more, these sizzle more, I think

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that it
could go a long way.
It's important to try to stand

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out.

So, here, let me put this in

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before I forget to share it with

you all here on Clubhouse, and

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again, like I said, this will be

in the show notes as well.

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It's a Zoom call, and I think
it's
free.

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Dr. D, is it free?
It DR: is free.

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Marc Ronick: Okay, so there you
go.

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So, go check that out today.
Also, this one, not as much


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pressure, you have some time
here.

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Two weeks, as a matter of

fact, YouTube is hosting a free

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online session called YouTube

Channel Memberships for

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Podcasters.
It's on Wednesday,
June 17,

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from five to 6pm BST, so that's
12 to 1pm Eastern
time.

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The session is aimed directly at
podcasters who want
to turn

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their YouTube audience into a
more engaged paying
community

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through channel membership.
YouTube says it'll
cover how

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to set up the launch setup and
launch memberships,
how to

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create stronger perks and
pricing tiers, how to turn


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casual viewers into members, and
it'll include a live Q and A


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with the expert panel for
podcasters leaning into video.


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This is worth paying attention
to, because YouTube keeps


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pushing deeper into podcasting,
clearly, and memberships could


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become one of the more practical
ways creators build recurring


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revenue without sending their
audience somewhere else.

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You can
find this information
on the YouTube event website

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podcasts
dot with youtube.com
And finally, Who's surprised?

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I'm
curious if anybody else
knows where I'm going with this

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00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,469
last
event to share with you.
The Empowered Podcasting

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Conference
returns August.
I'm going to start saying August

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00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,350
20 through
the 23rd because
technically we're kicking things

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00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:51,830
off that
Thursday evening in
Charlotte, North Carolina, and

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we're also
saying it this way
now, the 20th, because we start

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bright
and early on the 21st
So I want to make sure that you

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00:13:01,395 --> 00:13:03,405
all are
there for every
moment.

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00:13:03,405 --> 00:13:07,550
This event is bringing together
podcasters, video creators,

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00:13:07,550 --> 00:13:11,495
content creators, entrepreneurs,

creative professionals for a

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00:13:11,495 --> 00:13:14,975
community-first event built

around connection,

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collaboration, and practical

growth.

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The event is expected to feature
at least 150 plus
attendees,

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25 plus speakers.
We've got several panels,


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interactive workshops, and hands
on learning with the content


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00:13:31,118 --> 00:13:34,715
creators accountant serving as
the title sponsor.

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00:13:34,715 --> 00:13:37,887
That's Ralph
Estep.
Creators can learn more at

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00:13:37,887 --> 00:13:42,020
Empowered podcasting.com and

grab tickets through the site's

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00:13:42,020 --> 00:13:45,890
get tickets button, so go there,

Empowered podcasting.com Get

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00:13:45,890 --> 00:13:49,250
your tickets before July,

because prices are going to go

217
00:13:49,250 --> 00:13:54,500
up once again in July, so get

your best price right now at

218
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:59,825
Empowered podcasting.com Ralph,
will you hit the your jingle?

219
00:14:00,035 --> 00:14:02,615
It's yours, Content Creators

Business Bite.

220
00:14:02,615 --> 00:14:07,395
Quick tip, smart move.
Yeah, Content Creators


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00:14:07,403 --> 00:14:12,021
Business Bite.
Today's Content Creators


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00:14:12,029 --> 00:14:15,990
Business Bite is brought to you
by the title sponsor of


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00:14:15,998 --> 00:14:19,076
Empowered Podcasting, Ralph
Estep of Content Creators


224
00:14:19,084 --> 00:14:22,735
accountant.com Ralph is a
licensed accountant with over 30

225
00:14:22,735 --> 00:14:25,697

years of experience helping
creators navigate taxes,


226
00:14:25,705 --> 00:14:30,165
bookkeeping, and the money side
of their business with more


227
00:14:30,173 --> 00:14:33,194
clarity and a whole lot less
stress.

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00:14:33,194 --> 00:14:36,812
Ralph is also my
accountant,
and I'm happy to recommend him

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00:14:36,812 --> 00:14:39,495
to you.
You can
learn more at Content

230
00:14:39,495 --> 00:14:42,912
Creators accountant.com And with
that,
Ralph, what are we

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00:14:42,912 --> 00:14:46,094
diving into today?
Ralph Estep Jr.: We're going to

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00:14:46,094 --> 00:14:49,314
talk about cameras today.
There was an article called Stop

233
00:14:49,314 --> 00:14:53,241

Buying Cameras for Problems
You Don't Have, and if you spend

234
00:14:53,241 --> 00:14:55,925

enough time watching camera
views, you'll start believing


235
00:14:55,933 --> 00:15:00,405
you need a full frame 7k cinema
ready setup just to film a pop.

236
00:15:00,405 --> 00:15:02,129

A cast clip, maybe YouTube Short

237
00:15:02,219 --> 00:15:06,509
Vlog, or a talking head video,

but a recent Canon rumors piece

238
00:15:06,959 --> 00:15:09,689
raises a better question, and

that question is, How much

239
00:15:09,869 --> 00:15:11,414
camera do creators actually

need?

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00:15:11,414 --> 00:15:15,200
And the answer is this: it's
probably less than you
think.

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00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,377
That matters, because this is
not just a tech
question, it's

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00:15:18,377 --> 00:15:21,534
actually a business question.
A creator
looking at Cannon's

243
00:15:21,534 --> 00:15:25,699
current lineup could spend
around 650 to
$900 on a

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00:15:25,699 --> 00:15:29,629
creator-focused camera like the
EOS R 50 V or the Power
Shot

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00:15:29,629 --> 00:15:34,027
v1 or even jump listen to this
to a higher end body like
the

246
00:15:34,027 --> 00:15:40,063
EOS r6 V that one spends 2499 or
here the EOS r6 mark 327
99

247
00:15:40,063 --> 00:15:45,393
that's a gap, that's a gap of
$1,600 of more than $2,100 Now,

248
00:15:45,393 --> 00:15:49,211
that doesn't even include the
lenses or batteries, storage


249
00:15:49,219 --> 00:15:51,891
lights, microphones, tripods, or
editing tools.

250
00:15:51,891 --> 00:15:55,357
And here's the
uncomfortable
truth, for a lot of creators,

251
00:15:55,357 --> 00:15:57,523
the camera isn't
the
bottleneck.

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00:15:57,523 --> 00:16:01,324
The bottleneck is usually bad
audio, poor
lighting, weak

253
00:16:01,324 --> 00:16:04,517
scripting, inconsistent posting,
messy
thumbnails, or content

254
00:16:04,517 --> 00:16:06,848
that doesn't clearly serve an

audience.

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00:16:06,848 --> 00:16:10,553
So, the smarter creator budget
is not what is
the best camera

256
00:16:10,553 --> 00:16:14,639
I can afford, it's what is the
least camera
that solves my

257
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:17,243
production problem.
If you film mostly
vertical

258
00:16:17,243 --> 00:16:20,769
clips or product demos, live
streams, course content, or


259
00:16:20,777 --> 00:16:24,349
talking head videos, you might
not need the expensive body, you

260
00:16:24,349 --> 00:16:28,681

need a reliable camera, a good
mic, a clean light, and a


261
00:16:28,689 --> 00:16:31,027
repeatable workflow.
That's where the savings really

262
00:16:31,027 --> 00:16:33,514
become
real.
Instead of overspending by 1500

263
00:16:33,514 --> 00:16:38,073
or maybe $2,000 on an
unused
camera features, a creator could

264
00:16:38,073 --> 00:16:40,971
redirect that
money into
things that actually move the

265
00:16:40,971 --> 00:16:44,664
creator business better
sound,
better lighting, a teleprompter,

266
00:16:44,664 --> 00:16:48,339
editing help, paid

distribution, maybe a thumbnail

267
00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:51,219
designer, or even a few months

of software and production

268
00:16:51,279 --> 00:16:53,361
support.
Here's the business
lesson:

269
00:16:53,361 --> 00:16:56,251
gear should increase output, not
delay it.

270
00:16:56,251 --> 00:17:00,335
A $2,799
camera that sits in a
bag because your workflow is


271
00:17:00,343 --> 00:17:03,149
complicated is a worse
investment than a $700 camera


272
00:17:03,157 --> 00:17:05,615
that keeps you published three
times a week.

273
00:17:05,615 --> 00:17:08,114
So, before you
upgrade,
creators should ask three

274
00:17:08,114 --> 00:17:09,539
questions.
Here's question
number one:

275
00:17:09,539 --> 00:17:12,070
What content do I actually make
every week?


276
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:15,263
Question number two is, what is
currently making that content


277
00:17:15,271 --> 00:17:17,608
harder to produce?
And finally, question number

278
00:17:17,608 --> 00:17:21,036
three: Will this
camera fix
that problem, or am I just

279
00:17:21,036 --> 00:17:23,477
buying confidence?
Because
in content creation,

280
00:17:23,477 --> 00:17:26,532
the best camera is not always
the most
powerful one, it's

281
00:17:26,532 --> 00:17:28,542
the one that keeps you
publishing.

282
00:17:28,542 --> 00:17:31,395
So, here's
my, my go away
moment.

283
00:17:31,395 --> 00:17:35,403
Don't buy the camera your ego
wants, buy
the camera your

284
00:17:35,403 --> 00:17:37,640
content business needs.
Marc Ronick: Thank you.

285
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:38,780
And Ralph Estep Jr.: that's
today's
business bite.

286
00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:41,860
Marc Ronick: Thank you, Ralph.

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm on the

287
00:17:42,010 --> 00:17:46,478
go right now.
I didn't travel
with my Elgato

288
00:17:46,478 --> 00:17:50,635
teleprompter that has the Elgato
Face Cam Pro
camera built into

289
00:17:50,635 --> 00:17:54,720
it, too much to travel with.
And, man, if you
could see my

290
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,832
car loaded up, you, I would be
completely
embarrassed for any

291
00:17:57,832 --> 00:18:02,538
of you to see how much stuff we
have been
traveling with, but

292
00:18:02,538 --> 00:18:06,016
my point is I didn't feel like
bringing a
big camera and a

293
00:18:06,016 --> 00:18:09,736
big setup.
Right, I am using the back of my

294
00:18:09,736 --> 00:18:14,322

iPhone 17 pro right now, and
it looks super crisp, super

295
00:18:14,322 --> 00:18:17,966
clear,
high quality.
In fact, some people tell me

296
00:18:17,966 --> 00:18:21,731
they like how
this camera
looks better when I'm doing this

297
00:18:21,731 --> 00:18:24,053
show versus the
Elgato camera,
right?

298
00:18:24,053 --> 00:18:28,305
So, sometimes we don't even need
to
invest any money into a

299
00:18:28,305 --> 00:18:30,622
camera.
We may have a camera that works

300
00:18:30,622 --> 00:18:33,161
just as well on the back of our
phone.

301
00:18:33,161 --> 00:18:37,148
I will say that you gotta
the
Pro, if you're using an iPhone,

302
00:18:37,148 --> 00:18:40,456
the Pro models are going
to
give you the much better camera,

303
00:18:40,456 --> 00:18:42,820
so that's something to

consider, and that's something

304
00:18:43,420 --> 00:18:48,340
that's a reason why I invest a

little bit more into my phone,

305
00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:52,935
is because I do use this camera
a lot for creating content, so

306
00:18:52,935 --> 00:18:58,270
I felt justified in spending a

little more on a phone because

307
00:18:58,540 --> 00:19:02,079
it's serving as more than just a

phone for me, Ralph Estep Jr.:

308
00:19:02,079 --> 00:19:03,270
I think that's
a very good
point, my friend.

309
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,175
Marc Ronick: Yeah, thank you,

appreciate that.

310
00:19:05,175 --> 00:19:07,776
All right, hit the music for
news.

311
00:19:07,776 --> 00:19:11,709
Thank you,
appreciate that.
All right, let's keep things

312
00:19:11,709 --> 00:19:14,610
moving with
Dr. We've got a
few news bites.

313
00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:18,870
These are stories that we may

feel like we might not dig deep

314
00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:22,070
into, but still very important

for us to chat a little bit

315
00:19:22,100 --> 00:19:26,300
about, so take it away.
Dr. DR: Yeah, okay, so YouTube

316
00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:31,394
is
giving podcast listeners
that are on their premium tier a

317
00:19:31,394 --> 00:19:35,615
more
podcast app style
experience, which is another

318
00:19:35,615 --> 00:19:39,294
sign that
YouTube wants
podcast consumption to feel less

319
00:19:39,294 --> 00:19:43,984
like
watch this video, and
more like take this video, take

320
00:19:43,984 --> 00:19:47,587
this show
with you.
The new features include on the

321
00:19:47,587 --> 00:19:51,502
go mode, which
adds easier
listening controls, like skip

322
00:19:51,502 --> 00:19:56,760
forward and back,
while videos
play in the background, audio

323
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,660
speed, which
intelligently
adjusts play.

324
00:19:59,660 --> 00:20:03,120
Back speed during slower speech
or
denser sections.

325
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,910
God, this is like really
interesting.

326
00:20:05,910 --> 00:20:11,256
Okay,
so premium users can now
ask for podcast recommendations

327
00:20:11,256 --> 00:20:17,188
based on
genre, mood, or shows
that they already love.

328
00:20:17,188 --> 00:20:22,886
YouTube also
dropped a spicy
data point in April 2026 just a

329
00:20:22,886 --> 00:20:26,768
couple months
ago, YouTube
premium users include trials

330
00:20:26,768 --> 00:20:32,248
watched over 800
million hours
of podcasts, big number,

331
00:20:32,248 --> 00:20:36,290
absolutely fully usable

number, not quite, because

332
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,600
YouTube hasn't shared a recent

premium subscriber count, and

333
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,370
the last public figure was 125

million premium and music

334
00:20:45,460 --> 00:20:52,390
subscribers, including trials

back in March of 2025 Now you

335
00:20:52,450 --> 00:20:56,770
know, I received an email, I

don't know, I guess I thought it

336
00:20:56,770 --> 00:21:00,370
was spam or something, that

said, "Hey, congratulations,

337
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:05,430
you've won a premium trial, and
I didn't do anything with it,

338
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,840
because I thought it was spam.
I
thought it was like a scam

339
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:15,840
thing, but I'm telling you, I am

starting to build up more and

340
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:22,430
more podcasts that I'm actually
partaking in on YouTube, and

341
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,450
those freaking commercials, I'm
getting so angry.

342
00:21:26,450 --> 00:21:29,699
I'll say Marc Ronick: it every
time we
talk about it.

343
00:21:29,699 --> 00:21:32,960
It's a worthwhile investment if
you can afford it.

344
00:21:33,020 --> 00:21:34,870
DR: I think I'm really, really

close to it.

345
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:36,800
I think I'm, I think I'm gonna
take the plunge.

346
00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:38,960
Ralph Estep Jr.: You spend your
money or you spend your time,

347
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:40,958
Dr. Just remember that.
Marc Ronick: That's true.

348
00:21:40,958 --> 00:21:43,009
Good
point, and it wastes a
lot of time.

349
00:21:43,009 --> 00:21:46,575
Again, I know I've shared
this
before, but traveling this week,

350
00:21:46,575 --> 00:21:50,590
you know, my wife kind of
runs
the content while we are

351
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:53,014
driving, right?
She's the one
driving with the

352
00:21:53,014 --> 00:21:56,060
phone and putting on the
different
podcasts, and we

353
00:21:56,060 --> 00:22:00,591
were watching, or she was, I was
listening to a
lot of podcasts

354
00:22:00,591 --> 00:22:03,630
on YouTube, and, man, those
commercials just
drive me

355
00:22:03,630 --> 00:22:06,550
nuts.
It's just worse to me than TV

356
00:22:06,550 --> 00:22:11,076
commercials,
because at least
you kind of get a little bit of

357
00:22:11,076 --> 00:22:14,377
a cue as to when
those
commercials are coming, whereas

358
00:22:14,377 --> 00:22:16,212
on YouTube it's just

startling.

359
00:22:16,212 --> 00:22:19,058
It just interrupts right in the
middle.

360
00:22:19,058 --> 00:22:21,090
It's
annoying, af.
Yeah, yeah.

361
00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:22,357
Agreed.
Cool.

362
00:22:22,357 --> 00:22:25,020
All right, keep things
moving.
And by the way, I just have to

363
00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:28,070
call out real quick.

Junaid is here in the audience,

364
00:22:28,580 --> 00:22:30,890
as he normally is, and sometimes

on stage with us.

365
00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:33,376
And I was supposed to try to
meet with him
yesterday.

366
00:22:33,376 --> 00:22:36,470
We were going to go do lunch,
talk a little bit
about

367
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:39,688
Empowered Podcasting, because
he's our audio video
guy, and

368
00:22:39,688 --> 00:22:43,676
I had to postpone it.
I just was trying to get out of

369
00:22:43,676 --> 00:22:47,835
the house and had a lot of work
to do before I left, so I had to

370
00:22:47,835 --> 00:22:49,734

postpone it.
So, please forgive me, Junaid,

371
00:22:49,734 --> 00:22:53,042
for that, and more
to come.
I'll be back on the other side

372
00:22:53,042 --> 00:22:56,110
of volunteering next
week, so
maybe we can do it the following

373
00:22:56,110 --> 00:22:59,230
week after that.

Moving on to some news,

374
00:22:59,530 --> 00:23:03,900
Supporting Cast says it's now

the first podcast subscription

375
00:23:03,930 --> 00:23:09,180
platform to deliver gated

subscriber-only video

376
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,380
specifically on Spotify, and

they're using Spotify's

377
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,190
distribution API, that means

listeners who connect with their

378
00:23:17,340 --> 00:23:21,892
Spotify account to a supporting
Cast powered subscription

379
00:23:21,892 --> 00:23:24,410
again.
Supporting Cast is the name of


380
00:23:24,418 --> 00:23:26,995
the company.
They can now watch exclusive

381
00:23:26,995 --> 00:23:31,518
video episodes
directly inside
Spotify, right along the audio

382
00:23:31,518 --> 00:23:33,972
and video shows
they already
consume.

383
00:23:33,972 --> 00:23:38,707
The first launch partners
include Libero
and Legacy with

384
00:23:38,707 --> 00:23:42,510
Goal Hanger, Jim Harold's
Campfire and Betches
Media,

385
00:23:42,510 --> 00:23:49,585
that is B E T C H E S, expected
to follow later in
quarter two

386
00:23:49,585 --> 00:23:54,588
for podcasters and publishers.
The big deal is
workflow and

387
00:23:54,588 --> 00:23:57,460
monetization.
One subscription can now unlock

388
00:23:57,460 --> 00:24:01,732
both
premium audio and video
inside Spotify without sending

389
00:24:01,732 --> 00:24:06,274
paying
fans to a separate
website, paid YouTube channel,

390
00:24:06,274 --> 00:24:09,120
or private app.

Yeah, Dr. You wanna take the

391
00:24:09,150 --> 00:24:12,395
next one.
DR: So, I have a story here for

392
00:24:12,395 --> 00:24:15,828
podcasting is not dying, but
lazy podcasting may be on


393
00:24:15,836 --> 00:24:18,907
notice.
So, in a conference talk titled

394
00:24:18,907 --> 00:24:24,050
'Is Podcasting Cooked'
with
Justin Jackson of Transistor and

395
00:24:24,050 --> 00:24:28,820
Jeremy Inns of
Podcasting
Marketing Academy tackled two of

396
00:24:28,820 --> 00:24:32,170
the biggest
anxieties in
podcasting right now, and that

397
00:24:32,170 --> 00:24:35,930
would be video and
AI.
Their take: video is not

398
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:40,112
replacing audio, it is changing
listeners' behavior.

399
00:24:40,112 --> 00:24:43,740
Many podcast fans now move
between
audio and video,

400
00:24:43,740 --> 00:24:47,035
depending on where they are and
what they're
doing.

401
00:24:47,035 --> 00:24:51,172
YouTube may be a major podcast
platform, but that does
not

402
00:24:51,172 --> 00:24:55,870
mean audio-only shows are dead.
It means creators need to


403
00:24:55,878 --> 00:24:59,890
understand where their audience
wants to consume the show.

404
00:24:59,890 --> 00:25:04,965
The
bigger warning came around
AI Jackson and Ends argued that

405
00:25:04,965 --> 00:25:09,285
AI
may not hurt podcasting by
flooding the market with fake


406
00:25:09,293 --> 00:25:11,730
shows.
Instead, it may make generic

407
00:25:11,730 --> 00:25:14,430
information podcasts
easier to
skip.

408
00:25:14,430 --> 00:25:19,580
If a listener can get the useful
part of an
episode from an AI

409
00:25:19,580 --> 00:25:24,470
summary in 30 seconds, the full
episode needs
to offer more.

410
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:29,384
Their advice to creators is
simple: stop making
shows that

411
00:25:29,384 --> 00:25:32,978
sound like searchable blog posts
with microphones.

412
00:25:32,978 --> 00:25:37,708
The
strongest podcasts will be
built around personality,

413
00:25:37,708 --> 00:25:40,994
perspective,
connection,
experience, and ideas that

414
00:25:40,994 --> 00:25:45,931
cannot be reduced to
a quick
summary, so no podcasting is not

415
00:25:45,931 --> 00:25:50,080
cooked, but
forgettable
podcasting that may be already

416
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,368
in the pan.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, interesting


417
00:25:53,376 --> 00:25:55,760
story.
All right, and I think the next

418
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,020
two stories, which we
think
here, that these are going to be

419
00:25:59,020 --> 00:26:01,306
the ones that really
create a
lot of conversation.

420
00:26:01,306 --> 00:26:05,120
I think this fit these both fit
fairly well with this last

421
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,056
story that you shared.
Dr. So this
first one, the

422
00:26:09,056 --> 00:26:12,690
headline reads, Video
Podcasting's gold rush may
be

423
00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:17,996
heading for a reset, and this
comes from longtime podcaster


424
00:26:18,004 --> 00:26:23,510
creator Elsie Escobar, and
Elsie, an influential voice in


425
00:26:23,518 --> 00:26:27,560
this space, and this was
actually brought to me when I


426
00:26:27,568 --> 00:26:30,666
was on Dave Jackson's show this
past Saturday, or at least I


427
00:26:30,674 --> 00:26:33,935
think it was brought up, I think
actually maybe Ralph brought it

428
00:26:33,935 --> 00:26:38,362
to the chat on Saturday when he
was watching along that


429
00:26:38,370 --> 00:26:43,995
particular episode, so Elsie
argues that the current video


430
00:26:44,003 --> 00:26:49,225
podcasting boom may be following
the same hype cycle pattern


431
00:26:49,233 --> 00:26:53,276
podcasting has seen before, big
attention, big money, big


432
00:26:53,284 --> 00:26:55,648
expectations, and then a
correction.

433
00:26:55,648 --> 00:26:59,456
Her larger points
that
podcasting's long-term strength

434
00:26:59,456 --> 00:27:02,610
may still come from

consistency, intimacy,

435
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:07,020
community, and sustainable

creator habits, rather than

436
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,850
chasing whatever their, whatever

format the industry is pushing

437
00:27:12,270 --> 00:27:14,174
hardest.
So, I'm going to share
some of

438
00:27:14,174 --> 00:27:18,240
the key points that she made in
this blog, and then
let's talk

439
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,844
about it, because I know people
have thoughts and
opinions

440
00:27:22,844 --> 00:27:25,546
here.
Elsie traces podcasting's major

441
00:27:25,546 --> 00:27:31,136
growth waves
from the serial
era in 2014 to the pandemic

442
00:27:31,136 --> 00:27:35,964
creator boom to the
current
push toward video podcasting.

443
00:27:35,964 --> 00:27:39,694
She says podcasting
has
repeatedly gone through moments

444
00:27:39,694 --> 00:27:42,940
where outside attention
and
investment creates big

445
00:27:43,090 --> 00:27:46,600
expectations, but the actual

work of making a show remains

446
00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:50,560
difficult and time consuming.

The article suggests that video

447
00:27:50,650 --> 00:27:53,890
is being treated by some

companies as a solution for

448
00:27:53,950 --> 00:27:57,670
podcast growth, largely because
video may attract bigger

449
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,794
advertising and platform

opportunities.

450
00:28:00,794 --> 00:28:04,851
Escobar questions whether large
scale video
investments will

451
00:28:04,851 --> 00:28:08,562
pay off for most creators,
especially when
many indie

452
00:28:08,562 --> 00:28:12,258
podcasters don't have the time,
the team, or the
budget, or

453
00:28:12,258 --> 00:28:15,768
even desire to produce video at
a high level.

454
00:28:15,768 --> 00:28:19,527
A
key theme is sustainability.
The article encourages creators

455
00:28:19,527 --> 00:28:23,530
to
build around the audience
they already have, rather than


456
00:28:23,538 --> 00:28:26,786
assuming constant year over year
audience growth.

457
00:28:26,786 --> 00:28:30,128
Look, I think
that one I can
get on board with, especially

458
00:28:30,128 --> 00:28:33,634
just because
that's been our
way here at the Podcasting

459
00:28:33,634 --> 00:28:36,624
Morning Show.
We do,
whether it's good or

460
00:28:36,624 --> 00:28:40,405
bad, that's maybe a discussion
we can have,
but we focus more

461
00:28:40,405 --> 00:28:44,164
on growing the community among
the people that
are here.

462
00:28:44,164 --> 00:28:48,422
We don't necessarily do a big
push to bring in new


463
00:28:48,430 --> 00:28:51,571
podcasters, other than word of
mouth, mouth, etc.

464
00:28:51,571 --> 00:28:54,797
Let's see
here.
See, our article encourages

465
00:28:54,797 --> 00:28:58,233
creators to build
around the
audience they already have,

466
00:28:58,233 --> 00:29:02,061
rather than assuming,
yeah,
constant year over year growth.

467
00:29:02,061 --> 00:29:06,030
Escobar predicts that
within
five years, some of the

468
00:29:06,150 --> 00:29:09,690
businesses and workflows built

mainly around the video

469
00:29:09,810 --> 00:29:14,700
podcasting boom may shrink or

become standard production tools

470
00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:19,005
instead of growth engines.
The
article also argues that

471
00:29:19,005 --> 00:29:23,810
audio versus video debate may

eventually fade with creators

472
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,590
choosing the formats they can

maintain and audiences following

473
00:29:27,620 --> 00:29:31,058
the content they care about.
I'm
very curious to hear what

474
00:29:31,058 --> 00:29:34,484
you all think about that too.
For
indie creators, the

475
00:29:34,484 --> 00:29:37,964
practical takeaway is to
understand where
revenue comes

476
00:29:37,964 --> 00:29:42,280
from, what product or service
the podcast supports,
and how

477
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:47,415
to become or how to build income
streams that don't
rely

478
00:29:47,415 --> 00:29:52,270
entirely on one platform or
format, so what do we think?

479
00:29:52,270 --> 00:29:56,240
Do
we agree that video
podcasting may be headed for a

480
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,565
correction,
or do we think
that video podcasting.

481
00:29:59,565 --> 00:30:04,658
Is still just
getting started.
I want to see now.

482
00:30:04,658 --> 00:30:08,040
Look, I'm using Club Deck

because I'm remote, so if people

483
00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:12,570
are flashing their emojis, I

don't see them as well as I can.

484
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:14,032
I Ralph Estep Jr.: jump in there

real quick, because yes.

485
00:30:14,032 --> 00:30:17,143
And then I got in all kinds of
hot
water on Saturday on Ask

486
00:30:17,143 --> 00:30:19,020
the Podcast Coach.
Actually, lost a
friend

487
00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:21,760
because of some of the things I
said, yikes, in the
chat,

488
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,610
believe it or not, yeah, he was,
he was just taken back
by my

489
00:30:25,610 --> 00:30:28,560
position, and I've actually
wrote a blog post about
this

490
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,072
and posted it alongside of
Elsie's article, because I don't

491
00:30:32,072 --> 00:30:36,415

believe video is going away, I
think video is here to stay, but

492
00:30:36,415 --> 00:30:38,599

not necessarily in the
oversized studio heavy that

493
00:30:38,599 --> 00:30:42,274
everyone needs
to be a media
company thing, I just think that

494
00:30:42,274 --> 00:30:46,024
the mistake is
confusing video
as a tool with video as a

495
00:30:46,024 --> 00:30:48,550
business model,
because I
think video can be incredibly

496
00:30:48,550 --> 00:30:51,280
powerful for
discoverability,
and that's the part I think

497
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,520
we're missing.
And
the takeaway I had from

498
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,850
this article is Elsie is in my -
this
is Ralph's opinion - that

499
00:30:57,850 --> 00:31:01,479
she was basically saying just go

back and do the audio only,

500
00:31:01,479 --> 00:31:04,784
and I got to be honest with you,
I
don't think if I'm, if I'm a

501
00:31:04,784 --> 00:31:08,880
new person coming into the
content
area, that that's wise

502
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,910
advice, and the reason I say I'm
not
saying you have to do full

503
00:31:11,910 --> 00:31:15,645
on video shows, but the truth of

the matter is social media

504
00:31:15,645 --> 00:31:19,196
clips and all those sort of
things,
video is driving that,

505
00:31:19,196 --> 00:31:21,950
and if you want to bring

discoverability to your content.

506
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,391
I think you've got to have that
idea to do video again.

507
00:31:25,391 --> 00:31:28,250
That's not a popular opinion,
but
that's Ralph's opinion,

508
00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:31,424
Marc Ronick: I think.
Ralph, so
if you're saying

509
00:31:31,424 --> 00:31:34,465
that you're not suggesting that
everybody's
gonna eventually

510
00:31:34,465 --> 00:31:39,016
move to full-length episodes via
video,
so with that in mind,

511
00:31:39,016 --> 00:31:43,344
like, I can't disagree with you.
I mean,
I think that to be

512
00:31:43,344 --> 00:31:46,930
honest, it actually changes the
conversation, because we're a

513
00:31:47,050 --> 00:31:49,750
lot of us are talking about how
video - we're like in a video

514
00:31:49,930 --> 00:31:54,640
boom right now, but using your

example, we've had that kind of

515
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:59,860
video in podcasting for ever,

like back in 2014 when the

516
00:32:00,010 --> 00:32:03,164
serial podcast was going on.
I
was part of a different

517
00:32:03,164 --> 00:32:06,070
podcast, not cereal, but I was a
part of
a different podcast

518
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:10,876
that had hundreds of 1000s of
listeners
over the course of a

519
00:32:10,876 --> 00:32:14,874
year, and they were always doing
video,
they were streaming

520
00:32:14,874 --> 00:32:18,660
live video, they were using
video to promote
using clips

521
00:32:18,660 --> 00:32:21,680
and that kind of thing.
Video has been around for
a

522
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,442
very long time, and we've always
been using it in some way
here

523
00:32:25,442 --> 00:32:29,688
in the podcasting world too.
So, I think the part of the


524
00:32:29,696 --> 00:32:34,010
problem with this article is I
think that we, a lot of us, just

525
00:32:34,010 --> 00:32:37,610

assume that, which, and maybe
she is, she's just talking about

526
00:32:37,610 --> 00:32:41,443

long form video content, and
so I want to play, and I Ralph

527
00:32:41,443 --> 00:32:43,581
Estep Jr.: actually think
that
we are going to get to a point

528
00:32:43,581 --> 00:32:46,090
where it's going to be

mandatory for people to stay

529
00:32:46,180 --> 00:32:48,820
involved in that, so I, I will

take that stronger position,

530
00:32:48,850 --> 00:32:51,520
Mark, because I think that's

where we're going to land, and I

531
00:32:51,610 --> 00:32:54,040
think the consumer is going to

be able to make the decision, do

532
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:56,920
I want to listen, do I want to

watch, and the reason I say

533
00:32:57,070 --> 00:33:00,160
that, because it gives people a
chance to see your face, read

534
00:33:00,220 --> 00:33:03,660
your body language and build

that familiarity faster than

535
00:33:04,050 --> 00:33:06,750
what audio does, but again, the
economics still have to work

536
00:33:07,410 --> 00:33:10,547
Marc Ronick: fair enough.
Let's
hear from some of our

537
00:33:10,547 --> 00:33:13,700
community around this.
Dan Schultz wants
to join in.

538
00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:17,602
Go for it, Dan.
Dan: Yeah, hey everyone.

539
00:33:17,602 --> 00:33:20,370
Oh, I'm
wearing an echo.
Can you guys hear me?

540
00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:21,730
Marc Ronick: Yeah, we can hear

you fine.

541
00:33:21,730 --> 00:33:24,965
And we don't hear an app.
Okay, Dan: so here's the thing

542
00:33:24,965 --> 00:33:28,760
that
everyone should remember,
that even us really cool,

543
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,772
awesome,
hardworking
podcasters, we're lazy people

544
00:33:31,772 --> 00:33:34,892
are lazy, and
they're gonna
have to figure out, is the juice

545
00:33:34,892 --> 00:33:38,138
going to be
worth the squeeze?
Because I think I said earlier,

546
00:33:38,138 --> 00:33:41,228
when I'm
editing one of our
podcasts, I just always edit the

547
00:33:41,228 --> 00:33:46,020
video along
with it, but I am
not under any great, you know, I

548
00:33:46,020 --> 00:33:50,863
don't know,
dream that what
I'm doing is even close to TV

549
00:33:50,863 --> 00:33:53,334
quality.
I am
doing the bare minimum

550
00:33:53,334 --> 00:33:56,730
when I talk, I'm on camera, when
my
co-host talks, she's on

551
00:33:56,730 --> 00:33:58,642
camera.
We have a few graphics every


552
00:33:58,650 --> 00:34:02,350
once in a while, you know, we
maybe switch up camera shots,


553
00:34:02,358 --> 00:34:06,912
but it's a lot of work to do
that, and I think people doing


554
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,665
video are, I mean, a lot of
people get into the new thing, a

555
00:34:11,665 --> 00:34:14,380

lot of these people,
podcasters, Ralph, I think

556
00:34:14,380 --> 00:34:17,310
you're a really
good example,
I think a lot of times you jump

557
00:34:17,310 --> 00:34:20,768
in and you're
like, this is
the best practices, or this is

558
00:34:20,768 --> 00:34:22,818
what you
have to do to grow
fast.

559
00:34:22,818 --> 00:34:26,866
I want to be part of everything.
Well,
you probably maybe

560
00:34:26,866 --> 00:34:31,532
wouldn't do video if it kept
getting harder
and harder to

561
00:34:31,532 --> 00:34:34,188
actually stand out.
Like, what if doing the
bare

562
00:34:34,188 --> 00:34:36,880
minimum isn't enough, and you
have to start, you know,


563
00:34:36,888 --> 00:34:39,340
spending money on workflows or
equipment and all sorts of


564
00:34:39,348 --> 00:34:40,510
stuff.
And then pretty soon you

565
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,510
realize, and I'm not just saying

you, Ralph, but I mean all of

566
00:34:43,690 --> 00:34:46,960
us, we got into doing a podcast
about us, you know, for a

567
00:34:47,020 --> 00:34:49,810
specific reason, maybe we had a
message we wanted to share,

568
00:34:49,929 --> 00:34:52,431
whatever.
The second the work
itself

569
00:34:52,431 --> 00:34:55,614
turns into more like, well, wait
a minute, this isn't
what I

570
00:34:55,614 --> 00:34:59,110
want to do, I want to talk about
blah blah blah blah,
I don't

571
00:34:59,110 --> 00:35:02,958
want to get.
It into being a full-fledged TV

572
00:35:02,958 --> 00:35:05,889
producer.
I don't really care all that

573
00:35:05,889 --> 00:35:08,490
much about video.
I
care more about serving my

574
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:11,010
audience the message that I

wanted to serve them in the

575
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,386
beginning.
So, is video video
always be

576
00:35:13,386 --> 00:35:16,310
around because there's going to
be people who like
video, and

577
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:20,164
YouTube is, you know, a great
discoverable
discoverability

578
00:35:20,164 --> 00:35:23,750
platform, but it's not going
anywhere, but
it's not

579
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:25,987
probably going to be as big as
everyone thinks.

580
00:35:25,987 --> 00:35:27,800
It'll
always be a part of
something.

581
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:29,720
Marc Ronick: Yeah.
Thank you,
Dan.

582
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:33,085
And I saw that John was agreeing
with some of what you
were

583
00:35:33,085 --> 00:35:36,965
saying, in the sense of, yeah,
there's an additional cost


584
00:35:36,973 --> 00:35:39,500
here.
And does video bring any

585
00:35:39,590 --> 00:35:42,850
additional benefit to the

content, he said, seeing my

586
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:49,270
pumpkin head doesn't add to my

content 100% Dan: John, no one

587
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:52,740
needs to see
that, Ralph Estep
Jr.: but let me, let
me jump

588
00:35:52,740 --> 00:35:55,136
in there, because I think it
actually does, and I
think

589
00:35:55,136 --> 00:35:58,340
there is a part that we're
overlooking here, and that is


590
00:35:58,348 --> 00:36:02,075
being able to see somebody helps
build that trust faster, Marc

591
00:36:02,075 --> 00:36:04,320
Ronick: that's fair, and I Ralph
Estep Jr.: just think that
we

592
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,786
can't overlook that, and that's
all I'm saying, is I just


593
00:36:06,794 --> 00:36:09,684
think that we need to accept
that life has changed, and I


594
00:36:09,692 --> 00:36:13,614
truly believe we are in an age
where people are expecting to


595
00:36:13,622 --> 00:36:16,695
see things, look at TikTok, look
at reels, they are seeing


596
00:36:16,703 --> 00:36:19,350
things, they're not just hearing
a voice, again, I could be the


597
00:36:19,358 --> 00:36:22,302
lone guy out in the prairie
thinking this, but and I also


598
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:24,890
don't think you have to over
complicate it.

599
00:36:24,890 --> 00:36:28,910
I think the
simple what I've
seen in my own life is the

600
00:36:28,910 --> 00:36:31,902
videos that I shoot
out
walking around the farm actually

601
00:36:31,902 --> 00:36:35,298
get more views than the
views
I get in my studio that I spent

602
00:36:35,298 --> 00:36:38,990
1000s of dollars to
create.
So I think we can overthink this

603
00:36:38,990 --> 00:36:41,218
too.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, fair.

604
00:36:41,218 --> 00:36:45,470
Let me
keep things going, and
check in with BC Babbles, who I

605
00:36:45,470 --> 00:36:49,190
need, who
I owe an apology to,
because he's been.. he was

606
00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:52,562
waiting to
join us for about
10 minutes into the show before

607
00:36:52,562 --> 00:36:55,508
I realized
he was trying to
get onto the Riverside platform

608
00:36:55,508 --> 00:36:57,704
with us.
So,
please forgive me, BC,

609
00:36:57,704 --> 00:37:00,130
what do you want to add to all
this to
all this?

610
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,850
BC Babbles: 14, but it's okay.

Wait, hold on a second, real

611
00:37:04,020 --> 00:37:04,644
quick.
Oh, one sec.

612
00:37:04,644 --> 00:37:07,080
Sorry, Marc Ronick: major
echoing going
on.

613
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:10,200
BC Babbles: I'll do the

clubhouse version of the club

614
00:37:10,260 --> 00:37:12,588
deck version then.
So, what I'm
still kind of

615
00:37:12,588 --> 00:37:15,360
stuck on, if I heard it
correctly, the previous


616
00:37:15,368 --> 00:37:18,225
article talked about, and to
Ralph's point about


617
00:37:18,233 --> 00:37:22,735
discoverability, if we're
supposed to rework how we're


618
00:37:22,743 --> 00:37:26,628
naming and describing each bit
of content.

619
00:37:26,628 --> 00:37:30,130
What's the new
technique going
to be that we previously

620
00:37:30,130 --> 00:37:33,956
discussed on the
show?
How we have to make sure that

621
00:37:33,956 --> 00:37:38,510
titles, subtitles are some

form of common query inputs, and

622
00:37:38,540 --> 00:37:41,470
then descriptions have to make

sure we answer some kind of

623
00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:44,910
question or provide some kind of

solution, so what would the

624
00:37:44,910 --> 00:37:49,666
new approachable tactic be if
we're
supposed to stop doing

625
00:37:49,666 --> 00:37:51,544
that?
Marc Ronick: Well, did I BC

626
00:37:51,544 --> 00:37:52,930
Babbles: hear that correctly

for the last article?

627
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,568
Marc Ronick: Yeah, well, I guess

we're, what were we doing?

628
00:37:56,568 --> 00:37:59,490
Like, what were the.. can you
give me
examples of what was

629
00:37:59,490 --> 00:38:02,194
being done that we're getting
rid of, like,
I'm just..

630
00:38:02,194 --> 00:38:04,050
I'm a little confused by your
question.

631
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,930
BC Babbles: Yeah, so I think one

of the final points with the

632
00:38:07,050 --> 00:38:10,980
last article was about stop

building your show or your

633
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:14,490
content to be this super

searchable thing, but previously

634
00:38:14,490 --> 00:38:19,080
we discussed how title subtitles

have to be some remnants of a

635
00:38:19,110 --> 00:38:21,020
searchable query, the

descriptions have to be

636
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,118
providing a solution or answer a

question, but if the article

637
00:38:25,118 --> 00:38:27,830
is saying that we have to stop

doing that, then what's the new

638
00:38:27,980 --> 00:38:31,362
pivot approach?
How do we then
compensate for

639
00:38:31,362 --> 00:38:34,370
this new era of what is
discoverable?

640
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:37,322
Marc Ronick: Interesting.
Yeah,
I mean, I'm going to

641
00:38:37,322 --> 00:38:40,842
stand firm that I actually don't
think
changing, yeah, that I

642
00:38:40,842 --> 00:38:44,848
do think titles and descriptions
are
important for

643
00:38:44,848 --> 00:38:46,294
searchability, discoverability,
etc.

644
00:38:46,294 --> 00:38:49,946
So I
personally have no
intention of changing that

645
00:38:49,946 --> 00:38:53,153
strategy,
regardless of what
we're being told.

646
00:38:53,153 --> 00:38:56,920
Yeah, at least for now.
I
mean, that could change over

647
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,588
time for sure.
Janae, I think
you wanted to

648
00:38:59,588 --> 00:39:01,530
chime in.
Go for it.

649
00:39:01,590 --> 00:39:04,350
Junaid: I always want to look at

who's publishing the article.

650
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,804
What's the game plan behind it?


651
00:39:06,812 --> 00:39:09,360
Right, do they have a chicken in
the fight?

652
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,500
Marc Ronick: So, yeah, I mean,

Elsie, I think she certainly..

653
00:39:15,180 --> 00:39:17,186
how did you put it.. has a

chicken in the fight?

654
00:39:17,186 --> 00:39:20,574
I think she certainly does.
I mean, like
I said, she's

655
00:39:20,574 --> 00:39:25,064
been in this game for so many
years, and she is,
she's one

656
00:39:25,064 --> 00:39:29,605
of those people that really I
see as one that really
cares

657
00:39:29,605 --> 00:39:33,568
about the community in the
podcasting space and really


658
00:39:33,576 --> 00:39:38,229
nurtures the community, so yeah,
I think the intentions are good

659
00:39:38,229 --> 00:39:42,112
as far as who it's coming from,
for sure.

660
00:39:42,112 --> 00:39:46,762
Anyone else want to
chime in?
Yeah, Mark, John: for just a

661
00:39:46,762 --> 00:39:48,505
second.
Marc Ronick: Okay, go ahead,


662
00:39:48,513 --> 00:39:52,738
John.
John: So, knowing Elsie and Rob,

663
00:39:52,738 --> 00:39:59,284

Rob is all 100% in audio only,
and then LC was an audio only


664
00:39:59,292 --> 00:40:01,794
until.
So she started doing video, and

665
00:40:01,794 --> 00:40:05,625
now she likes doing
video.
Here's my thing: everybody

666
00:40:05,625 --> 00:40:07,905
should just do what
they want.
Let's just..

667
00:40:07,905 --> 00:40:10,145
Ralph wants to do video.
I think it's
fantastic.

668
00:40:10,145 --> 00:40:13,592
I live stream twice a week, but
I live stream the
recording of

669
00:40:13,592 --> 00:40:16,710
my audio podcast.
I believe my podcast is an


670
00:40:16,718 --> 00:40:18,945
audio-first podcast.
So, I just think we should..

671
00:40:18,945 --> 00:40:20,320
I don't know
why.
I don't know why we're fighting.

672
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:21,440
I don't know why we're
out
there.

673
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:22,520
Everybody should just do their
own thing.

674
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:26,016
Marc Ronick: I agree.
I guess
the, the argument is

675
00:40:26,016 --> 00:40:29,756
because if we're trying to
maximize our
reach, maximize

676
00:40:29,756 --> 00:40:33,848
our growth, you know that that's
why these
conversations are

677
00:40:33,848 --> 00:40:37,362
happening.
And to be fair, I kind of, John,

678
00:40:37,362 --> 00:40:41,737
I
kind of feel like, and the
next story I probably feel the

679
00:40:41,737 --> 00:40:44,948
same
way.
Does this even apply to this

680
00:40:44,948 --> 00:40:46,912
section of the world of

podcasting?

681
00:40:46,912 --> 00:40:51,730
In other words, the indie DIY
podcasters, does this
stuff

682
00:40:51,730 --> 00:40:55,864
even really apply?
Because a lot of the

683
00:40:55,864 --> 00:40:59,056
information,
generally now,
not maybe LC, but generally

684
00:40:59,056 --> 00:41:02,298
speaking, it comes
from the
big companies, the corporate out

685
00:41:02,298 --> 00:41:06,354
there, right, that
are shoving
the idea of video down our

686
00:41:06,354 --> 00:41:09,197
throats, but maybe
they're
actually, we think they're

687
00:41:09,197 --> 00:41:12,573
shoving it down our
throats,
but maybe it's not even really

688
00:41:12,573 --> 00:41:18,000
geared toward us.
Maybe
the indie DIY space has

689
00:41:18,210 --> 00:41:22,046
different rules to apply.
John: I think people wanted it.

690
00:41:22,046 --> 00:41:23,450

I think they want to compete

691
00:41:23,540 --> 00:41:27,620
with YouTube and Spotify with

the video, so Apple said, "Okay,

692
00:41:27,830 --> 00:41:30,756
we'll use HLS, and we'll do

this.

693
00:41:30,756 --> 00:41:35,469
It's a cost to, you know, all
the hosting providers, so
they

694
00:41:35,469 --> 00:41:39,302
have to pass the cost on to us,
and then they also have to
do

695
00:41:39,302 --> 00:41:42,448
a lot of work in the back end to
make it under their
developers

696
00:41:42,448 --> 00:41:46,594
have to do a lot of work, so
it's a cost to them
too.

697
00:41:46,594 --> 00:41:50,488
Again, I just don't think I
think the problem we have is


698
00:41:50,496 --> 00:41:54,180
people are trying to take away
our term podcasting, they want


699
00:41:54,188 --> 00:41:57,958
to change it to content creator
or something like that, and we


700
00:41:57,966 --> 00:42:00,532
were holding on to podcasting,
even though it's a stupid word.

701
00:42:00,532 --> 00:42:01,800

I think that's more of the

702
00:42:01,950 --> 00:42:04,470
problem is everybody's like,

hey, you can't change my

703
00:42:05,070 --> 00:42:08,040
podcasting term to content

creation, I'm not going to do,

704
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,460
you're not going to do that.

Listen, I've been upset about

705
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:17,220
people as far as big companies

coming into podcasting since

706
00:42:17,970 --> 00:42:22,580
2012 and I said back then, if

you know, go get your own

707
00:42:22,670 --> 00:42:24,812
sandbox.
You guys laughed at us
when we

708
00:42:24,812 --> 00:42:26,930
started this, and now here you
are.

709
00:42:26,930 --> 00:42:30,360
So, I'm a little
protective.
Marc Ronick: I hear you, John.


710
00:42:30,368 --> 00:42:31,490
Thank you.
Appreciate that, Rez.

711
00:42:31,580 --> 00:42:33,964
I'll come to you in just a

second.

712
00:42:33,964 --> 00:42:36,785
There was some tide I saw wanted
to chime in.

713
00:42:36,785 --> 00:42:38,240
Tide, go
for it.
Good morning.

714
00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:40,030
Tide: Good morning.
Great
conversation.

715
00:42:40,030 --> 00:42:44,239
I was just going to say that a
lot of times when
we're doing

716
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,528
work it's people think that the
actions
themselves are what's

717
00:42:47,528 --> 00:42:50,980
going to propel them to success
because
that's what we've been

718
00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:56,830
conditioned to believe act do

but really it's about being it's

719
00:42:56,860 --> 00:43:00,400
about the attitude it's the

attitude that you have so if you

720
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,330
see someone walking down the

street, for example, and you see

721
00:43:03,450 --> 00:43:06,300
that they have a lot of swagger,

a lot of coolness, they're

722
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:09,450
relaxed, they're they have a

good appearance, they come

723
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:12,930
across as very confident, and

they exude that, then you

724
00:43:13,140 --> 00:43:15,810
automatically make certain

assumptions, positive

725
00:43:15,870 --> 00:43:18,960
assumptions, typically about

that individual and what they're

726
00:43:19,050 --> 00:43:22,250
doing with their life, so if

they say, "Oh, I do podcasting,

727
00:43:22,310 --> 00:43:25,670
I do this, I do that, then you

automatically want to go and

728
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:29,090
listen to it, because you know

that they're confident in what

729
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,200
they do, they are relaxed, and

but when you see someone who is

730
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,130
not confident, is not relaxed,

they're being so hasty, they're

731
00:43:37,250 --> 00:43:39,890
constantly second-guessing

themselves, audio, video, audio,

732
00:43:39,980 --> 00:43:42,730
video, audio, video, does that

make anybody in here want to go

733
00:43:42,850 --> 00:43:45,559
listen to somebody's podcast?

No, it doesn't.

734
00:43:45,559 --> 00:43:50,314
So, when you have your attitude
right, your
mental faculties

735
00:43:50,314 --> 00:43:54,100
in line, and you're confident
and positive
with what you are

736
00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:57,178
doing, and you feel good, and
you're happy
about it, doesn't

737
00:43:57,178 --> 00:44:01,128
matter whether you do audio only
or video only,
or mix of of

738
00:44:01,128 --> 00:44:03,555
the two, it's about the
projection that you're
putting

739
00:44:03,555 --> 00:44:06,362
out there, and people will
gravitate towards that,


740
00:44:06,370 --> 00:44:10,125
because you're not constantly
vying for their attention, and


741
00:44:10,133 --> 00:44:13,692
then getting on the hamster
wheel, and trying to compete for

742
00:44:13,692 --> 00:44:16,330

downloads, and views, and
listeners, and all of that,


743
00:44:16,338 --> 00:44:18,900
you're not doing any of that,
because you're in your own


744
00:44:18,908 --> 00:44:22,145
space, you know that you're
you're creating what you want,


745
00:44:22,153 --> 00:44:26,225
and when you're doing that from
the right emotional and mental


746
00:44:26,233 --> 00:44:29,550
lens, then everything is going
to start to come together.

747
00:44:29,550 --> 00:44:32,948
But
we live in such a
frenetic, fragmented world where

748
00:44:32,948 --> 00:44:36,800
people
are trying to chase the
carrot on the stick, so to

749
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,908
speak, and
they never really
find out what works for them,

750
00:44:39,908 --> 00:44:43,294
because they
don't, they don't
understand that it's your

751
00:44:43,294 --> 00:44:46,900
attitude that
builds the
success of your podcast, not the

752
00:44:46,900 --> 00:44:49,654
specific
actions themselves.
Do you need some actions?

753
00:44:49,654 --> 00:44:52,273
Yes, obviously,
because you're
not going to go anywhere if you

754
00:44:52,273 --> 00:44:55,042
like, if you
just sit in a car
and you say, okay, I'm going to

755
00:44:55,042 --> 00:44:58,201
be confident
that this car is
going to move to the grocery

756
00:44:58,201 --> 00:44:59,928
store.
No, you
obviously have to put.

757
00:44:59,928 --> 00:45:02,520
Your, you know, your turn or
key, you
know, turn your key,

758
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,786
turn the engine on, put the foot
on the
on the pedal, and go.

759
00:45:05,786 --> 00:45:08,709
You have to do some actions, of
course,
but if you're

760
00:45:08,709 --> 00:45:12,386
confident in what you're doing,
then your podcast
is going to

761
00:45:12,386 --> 00:45:14,955
come across that way.
It's going to resonate with


762
00:45:14,963 --> 00:45:17,328
people, and that's the main
thing that I think people just


763
00:45:17,336 --> 00:45:20,170
don't get talked about enough.
Everybody is just pushed into


764
00:45:20,178 --> 00:45:23,450
these certain actions, and it's,
it's really the thoughts that


765
00:45:23,458 --> 00:45:25,460
are the fuel that make the
engine go.

766
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:28,225
Marc Ronick: I'm with you there,

tied.

767
00:45:28,225 --> 00:45:31,355
I think I think that that's
something that audiences
can

768
00:45:31,355 --> 00:45:33,937
pick up on consciously and
subconsciously.

769
00:45:33,937 --> 00:45:38,836
I think when you
have a
confident podcaster, there's

770
00:45:38,836 --> 00:45:41,750
something attractive
about
that, and I mean, or look at it

771
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:43,685
at the other side from the

other perspective, right?

772
00:45:43,685 --> 00:45:48,070
If you've got this podcaster who

doesn't display confidence and

773
00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:51,850
they are kind of wishy-washy

about it, and they, that

774
00:45:51,940 --> 00:45:53,260
confidence just doesn't come

through.

775
00:45:53,260 --> 00:45:56,570
I mean, I don't know about you,
but I'm more likely
to go

776
00:45:56,570 --> 00:45:59,981
press play on the podcast from
the confident one than the
one

777
00:45:59,981 --> 00:46:03,782
who's very unsure of themselves
on on the mic, so
yeah, I'm

778
00:46:03,782 --> 00:46:06,300
with you there, Rez.
I'm going to come to you, and


779
00:46:06,308 --> 00:46:08,988
then I'm just going to let
everyone know we got to move on

780
00:46:08,988 --> 00:46:12,492
to the next story here in a
second before I come to you,


781
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:14,925
Rez.
Just want to give Ralph a moment

782
00:46:14,925 --> 00:46:18,030
to share about tomorrow's

show, where we've got another

783
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,948
guest joining Ralph Estep Jr.:
us.

784
00:46:19,948 --> 00:46:21,720
Yes, thank
you, Mark.
Tomorrow we are going to have

785
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:24,600
Jeff C here.
Jeff's
going to talk about AI

786
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,606
and animation, and ways to use
that
for your content to

787
00:46:27,606 --> 00:46:30,623
really kick it up a notch.
He does some
really cool stuff

788
00:46:30,623 --> 00:46:33,340
with songs and AI animation.
So, make sure you
join us

789
00:46:33,340 --> 00:46:36,170
tomorrow for Jeff C.
Marc Ronick: Awesome, and that's

790
00:46:36,170 --> 00:46:39,110

not the letter C, that's Ralph
Estep Jr.: S I E H.

791
00:46:39,350 --> 00:46:40,876
Marc Ronick: Yes, there you go.


792
00:46:40,884 --> 00:46:44,158
Thank you, Ralph Rez.
What did you want to add to this

793
00:46:44,158 --> 00:46:45,310

conversation about Elsie's
blog?

794
00:46:46,210 --> 00:46:48,073
Rez: Yeah, hey Mark.
Hey
everybody, I forgot what

795
00:46:48,073 --> 00:46:51,370
the gesture was, for kind of..
Marc Ronick: that's okay.

796
00:46:52,510 --> 00:46:55,840
Rez: Yeah, anyways, I'm shocked
by, by, by the viewpoint that,

797
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:58,960
like, you should do audio only

versus video, like that's just

798
00:46:59,020 --> 00:47:03,600
my opinion, is obviously video

is the best form of your

799
00:47:03,660 --> 00:47:07,500
distribution strategy, so I

don't think the answer isn't

800
00:47:07,590 --> 00:47:09,652
video versus audio.
I think it,
you know, record

801
00:47:09,652 --> 00:47:13,080
the video, publish the full
audio, and
definitely cut the

802
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,326
best moments into clips, because
those clips,
believe it or

803
00:47:16,326 --> 00:47:19,514
not, like personally, I don't
have the
attention span to

804
00:47:19,514 --> 00:47:23,210
listen to the whole thing, so I,
those clips
are everything, in

805
00:47:23,210 --> 00:47:27,092
my, in my opinion, and it's
through video
that we can

806
00:47:27,092 --> 00:47:29,270
distribute those clips, but
that's my opinion.

807
00:47:29,570 --> 00:47:32,150
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and I think

that's what Ralph agrees with as

808
00:47:32,270 --> 00:47:34,160
well.
I think Ralph is not


809
00:47:34,168 --> 00:47:37,970
suggesting we should all move to
video for 100% but we should be

810
00:47:37,970 --> 00:47:39,864
using it as part of our
strategy.

811
00:47:39,864 --> 00:47:42,975
So, yeah, I think he's
with
you there, and so am I, for that

812
00:47:42,975 --> 00:47:44,072
matter.
Rez, thank you.


813
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,755
Appreciate that.
Ralph Estep Jr.: Absolutely,


814
00:47:45,763 --> 00:47:48,200
that is definitely my position.
We got to let Dr. say something,

815
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:49,475

Mark.
She's been waving, like, thank

816
00:47:49,475 --> 00:47:53,374
you.
She's go ahead, Dr. DR: Okay, so

817
00:47:53,374 --> 00:47:58,702
whenever we get in
these deep
conversations that go on for a

818
00:47:58,702 --> 00:48:03,300
little bit, all about
video in
my head I am seeing our

819
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,800
listeners who are brand spanking

new to podcasting, maybe

820
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,438
haven't even pushed record yet,
and are
listening to us to get

821
00:48:11,438 --> 00:48:15,906
up enough nerve to do it, and I
want to
remind you that you

822
00:48:15,906 --> 00:48:22,018
know I have two mentors that are
audio only,
and they both have

823
00:48:22,018 --> 00:48:26,306
reached six figures, so it can
be done.

824
00:48:26,306 --> 00:48:31,608
It
can be done, and I'm just
worried about those new


825
00:48:31,616 --> 00:48:35,708
podcasters that are looking in
their wallet, going, 'Oh my god,

826
00:48:35,708 --> 00:48:38,638

I just.. why should I even
start?

827
00:48:38,638 --> 00:48:45,480
So it's, yeah, audio is
is
viable, I mean, Marc Ronick:

828
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,548
yeah, and I think
you're,
you're right, and you know, I

829
00:48:47,548 --> 00:48:51,062
think a lot of us just
assume
that, okay, well, we have to

830
00:48:51,062 --> 00:48:55,180
have video content on our

social media that drives people

831
00:48:55,690 --> 00:48:58,210
to the show, and some people

agree with that, some people

832
00:48:58,300 --> 00:49:02,220
don't, but my point is, Why do

we think that it only video,

833
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,524
like we've seen people on social

media create accounts with

834
00:49:06,524 --> 00:49:09,048
very little to no video, right?


835
00:49:09,056 --> 00:49:12,340
Whether it's with carousel
posts, static images, using


836
00:49:12,348 --> 00:49:16,418
their stories on Instagram and
TikTok, using all the different

837
00:49:16,418 --> 00:49:20,970
elements, but not necessarily
using video of their podcast to

838
00:49:20,970 --> 00:49:24,542
build their authority, build
their presence, to get people to

839
00:49:24,542 --> 00:49:27,668

come find their show, right?
They're using, so I think there

840
00:49:27,668 --> 00:49:31,119
are other ways we can use it.
We don't have to just do my DR:

841
00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:34,609
client, and I were starting
to
experiment with just a talking

842
00:49:34,609 --> 00:49:40,219
head, so if she does a
show
about, you know, business

843
00:49:40,309 --> 00:49:43,253
coaching show.
She just looks
into the camera

844
00:49:43,253 --> 00:49:47,389
and says, Listen, I want people
to take a
listen to this

845
00:49:47,389 --> 00:49:49,992
episode.
This week we talked to so and so

846
00:49:49,992 --> 00:49:53,703
all
about so and so, and she
surprised me with some of her


847
00:49:53,711 --> 00:49:57,051
answers, you know, just it's
just a talking head in, just


848
00:49:57,059 --> 00:50:00,199
into the camera doesn't
necessarily even have to be.

849
00:50:00,199 --> 00:50:05,439
A
clip from the show itself,
just my client talking into the

850
00:50:05,439 --> 00:50:08,729
lens,
and distribute that as a
promo.

851
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,580
Marc Ronick: Yes, but Dr. you

just went against yourself

852
00:50:11,670 --> 00:50:17,260
because that's a video, DR: it's
a video, but it's not,
it

853
00:50:17,260 --> 00:50:20,543
doesn't, it just all requires
just a phone, but that's what I

854
00:50:20,543 --> 00:50:22,210
was saying, Dr. Ralph Estep
Jr.: is, I think
that's the

855
00:50:22,210 --> 00:50:25,604
part that people are missing.
It doesn't have to be
this

856
00:50:25,604 --> 00:50:28,790
slicked out commercial grade TV
premise thing, it can
be

857
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:31,856
something as simple as that.
But I think we've got to


858
00:50:31,864 --> 00:50:34,620
acknowledge that that is more
discoverable than just some


859
00:50:34,628 --> 00:50:36,848
audio file.
Marc Ronick: Yes, I would agree

860
00:50:36,848 --> 00:50:39,353
with that.
I mean, I've been, for the past

861
00:50:39,353 --> 00:50:42,336
several years, I've
been
saying, if anybody's still doing

862
00:50:42,336 --> 00:50:45,880
audio grams, I think they

might need to think about a new

863
00:50:46,180 --> 00:50:49,600
approach, because I just don't

think that the audio only clips

864
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:52,930
on social media, I just don't

think that those work well for

865
00:50:53,020 --> 00:50:57,520
new podcasters or growing

podcasts that are still trying

866
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,490
to find their community, build

their community, et cetera.

867
00:51:00,940 --> 00:51:04,425
Okay, let's move on to the next
story.

868
00:51:04,425 --> 00:51:06,570
Thank you, Ralph.
Appreciate that.

869
00:51:06,570 --> 00:51:09,630
Dr. I think
this one is yours.
Story number six.

870
00:51:10,410 --> 00:51:14,256
DR: Okay, so podcasting forms a
committee to define itself.

871
00:51:14,256 --> 00:51:17,148
This is something that Dave
Jackson
and Mark discussed

872
00:51:17,148 --> 00:51:19,501
this past Saturday on Dave's
show.

873
00:51:19,501 --> 00:51:24,390
There's
a new industry task
force trying to clean up podcast

874
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:28,968
measurement,
define what
counts as a podcast, and figure

875
00:51:28,968 --> 00:51:34,502
out how audio, video,
YouTube,
Spotify, Apple, and ad data

876
00:51:34,502 --> 00:51:38,156
should all be compared.

Sounds helpful, maybe.

877
00:51:38,156 --> 00:51:42,768
Okay, but for indie and DIY
podcasters,
the real question

878
00:51:42,768 --> 00:51:47,460
is whether this helps creators
or mostly
helps advertisers

879
00:51:47,460 --> 00:51:50,622
and major platforms.
Now, here are some of
the key

880
00:51:50,622 --> 00:51:52,912
points.
The group is called AMP, AMP,

881
00:51:52,912 --> 00:51:56,590
and it stands
for Alliance for
Measurement in Podcasting.

882
00:51:56,590 --> 00:51:59,629
Let me cut you off
real Marc
Ronick: quick.

883
00:51:59,629 --> 00:52:02,490
Hold your
space.
Somebody's, somebody's unmuted.

884
00:52:03,450 --> 00:52:08,220
Sid Meadows: Oh, crap, it is
Marc Ronick: me.

885
00:52:08,220 --> 00:52:09,420
No problem.
And
I have to apologize to

886
00:52:09,420 --> 00:52:12,353
Sid, because I knew he wanted to

comment on the last story

887
00:52:12,353 --> 00:52:15,054
based on me sharing it with
everyone
yesterday.

888
00:52:15,054 --> 00:52:18,320
And then I reached out to him
this morning in a
private chat

889
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,140
and said, do you want to
comment?

890
00:52:20,140 --> 00:52:24,133
He did say yes,
but I missed
it, so please forgive me, Sid.

891
00:52:24,133 --> 00:52:25,670
All Sid Meadows: good, buddy.
All
good, buddy.

892
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:27,260
Marc Ronick: Dr, please

continue.

893
00:52:27,980 --> 00:52:31,760
DR: Okay, so again, it's called
AMP, AMP, and it stands for the

894
00:52:31,850 --> 00:52:35,930
Alliance for Measurement in

Podcasting, and it's focused on

895
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,560
creating clearer standards for

podcast measurement and

896
00:52:39,710 --> 00:52:42,402
advertising.
Some of the
companies involved

897
00:52:42,402 --> 00:52:47,126
include Spotify, Sirius XM,
Lipson,
Better Help,

898
00:52:47,126 --> 00:52:52,510
DraftKings, UTA, Flight Story,
Podscribe, and
Oxford Road.

899
00:52:52,510 --> 00:52:56,905
The group says inconsistent
measurement may be
keeping

900
00:52:56,905 --> 00:53:01,674
major ad dollars out of
podcasting, possibly as much as

901
00:53:01,674 --> 00:53:05,730
$1 billion I said, billion.
Is everyone thinking Marc

902
00:53:05,730 --> 00:53:07,620
Ronick: of Dr. Evil right
now?
Okay, go ahead.

903
00:53:11,340 --> 00:53:14,910
DR: Dave Jackson's concern,

which came up when you and he

904
00:53:15,090 --> 00:53:19,560
talked about this on Saturday,

is that this could turn into

905
00:53:20,670 --> 00:53:25,400
advertisers trying to reshape

podcasting around what sponsors

906
00:53:25,700 --> 00:53:29,444
want, and Marc Ronick: my
concern, you
want me to share.

907
00:53:29,444 --> 00:53:32,810
My concern is that the standards
built for
huge shows,

908
00:53:32,810 --> 00:53:37,148
platforms, and ad buyers may not
actually serve
indie and DIY

909
00:53:37,148 --> 00:53:39,384
podcasters.
That was a little bit of what I

910
00:53:39,384 --> 00:53:43,622
was
alluding to earlier.
DR: Yeah, YouTube views, podcast

911
00:53:43,622 --> 00:53:47,860

downloads, Spotify plays,
Apple streams, and RSS-based


912
00:53:47,868 --> 00:53:52,490
listenings listening don't all
measure the same thing, so


913
00:53:52,498 --> 00:53:56,452
trying to treat them all the
same could get messy, and could

914
00:53:56,452 --> 00:53:59,755
get messy fast.
The big thing to watch is

915
00:53:59,755 --> 00:54:04,118
whether open
podcasting,
especially RSS, stays protected

916
00:54:04,118 --> 00:54:09,186
as platforms
push for better
tracking, cleaner attribution,

917
00:54:09,186 --> 00:54:12,350
and more
control.
Now, Mark, what is your takeaway

918
00:54:12,350 --> 00:54:14,532
on this?
Marc Ronick: I mean, just that


919
00:54:14,540 --> 00:54:17,112
indie podcasters, DIY
podcasters, should be paying


920
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:22,392
attention to all this, but maybe
don't feel like you have to


921
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,408
panic, the it probably affects
the ad side of podcasting first.

922
00:54:26,408 --> 00:54:28,610


For most of us, audience trust

923
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:32,600
and consistency, community, it

all still matters more than

924
00:54:33,170 --> 00:54:36,068
industry measurement data, at

least for many of us.

925
00:54:36,068 --> 00:54:38,958
I believe that.
So, my question is, and
maybe

926
00:54:38,958 --> 00:54:42,455
Sid, you'll have some comments,
so that we can hear
from you

927
00:54:42,455 --> 00:54:45,130
today.
Is do you trust major platforms

928
00:54:45,130 --> 00:54:48,796
and advertisers,
like I said,
like some of the, well, like you

929
00:54:48,796 --> 00:54:52,127
said, some of
these these
companies that have gotten

930
00:54:52,127 --> 00:54:56,684
together here, like
Better
Help and Draft Kings, like are

931
00:54:56,684 --> 00:55:00,344
these the right people
to get
together to help?

932
00:55:00,344 --> 00:55:04,480
Define the industry right, like,
how do
we feel about about

933
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,630
that in general?
Anyone have any
thoughts?

934
00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:10,030
Ralph, I feel like you have.
I can jump in.

935
00:55:10,030 --> 00:55:13,352
Okay, when Ralph Estep Jr.:
you're done, Sid Meadows: so I

936
00:55:13,352 --> 00:55:16,566
listened to
this article
because they had a little link

937
00:55:16,566 --> 00:55:18,202
where you could play
it,
right?

938
00:55:18,202 --> 00:55:22,472
Yeah, and my first thought was
this is the money
grab for big

939
00:55:22,472 --> 00:55:26,924
shows, because this is all about
CPM rates, and CPM
rates don't

940
00:55:26,924 --> 00:55:28,784
work for small independent
podcasts.

941
00:55:28,784 --> 00:55:30,020
They just
don't, Marc Ronick:
right?

942
00:55:30,890 --> 00:55:35,120
Sid Meadows: And when you look,
DraftKings is the number one ad

943
00:55:35,210 --> 00:55:38,360
buyer, according to that

article, podcast ads.

944
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,383
So that's kind of strange that
they're
part of this, I,

945
00:55:41,383 --> 00:55:45,324
however, I do agree that there
should be some
standardization

946
00:55:45,324 --> 00:55:48,082
of measurement of podcasts, not
just ad
measurement.

947
00:55:48,082 --> 00:55:52,237
This was focused on ad
measurement and analytics,
and

948
00:55:52,237 --> 00:55:55,412
podcasting really need
improvement and standardization

949
00:55:55,412 --> 00:55:58,960
across multiple platforms, so
that we can have a better


950
00:55:58,968 --> 00:56:01,722
understanding of the reach and
impact of our show, that's


951
00:56:01,730 --> 00:56:04,945
definitely something that's
needed, but we're not included


952
00:56:04,953 --> 00:56:11,184
in this, and when you look at
the industry, we outweigh them


953
00:56:11,192 --> 00:56:16,052
in the number of shows, and
likely our audiences outweigh


954
00:56:16,060 --> 00:56:21,254
their single audience, right,
and so to not include an


955
00:56:21,262 --> 00:56:24,206
important component like
independent podcasters who don't

956
00:56:24,206 --> 00:56:27,232

benefit from CPM rates.
I don't know that that's the

957
00:56:27,232 --> 00:56:29,624
right path
to take, because
then you're not hearing from the

958
00:56:29,624 --> 00:56:33,020
entire
audience, you're not
hearing from the entire group of

959
00:56:33,020 --> 00:56:35,416

podcasters, because we're
being left out of this.

960
00:56:35,416 --> 00:56:38,225
So, I think
it's going to be
interesting to follow this, but

961
00:56:38,225 --> 00:56:41,623
again, and I'll
say this till
the day I die, CPM rates do not

962
00:56:41,623 --> 00:56:44,526
work for us, and if
you're
trying to go after advertising

963
00:56:44,526 --> 00:56:47,975
dollars, this
battle, because
you're never going to make any

964
00:56:47,975 --> 00:56:50,686
real money
with your podcast.
Marc Ronick: So, Sid, thank you

965
00:56:50,686 --> 00:56:52,808
for that.
Do you, who do you think should

966
00:56:52,808 --> 00:56:57,373
be a part of that
committee,
you know, to speak to the

967
00:56:57,373 --> 00:57:00,990
independent podcasters?

Like, do you have any companies

968
00:57:01,140 --> 00:57:04,422
or people in mind?
Sid Meadows: I mean, that's a


969
00:57:04,430 --> 00:57:05,710
great question.
I hadn't really thought about

970
00:57:05,710 --> 00:57:07,190
that.
The first
one that comes to my

971
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:10,467
mind are the, you know, the
people that
run, you know,

972
00:57:10,467 --> 00:57:14,190
organizations like yours, you
know, Empower
Podcasting

973
00:57:14,190 --> 00:57:17,988
Conferences, people that
honestly serve the
independent

974
00:57:17,988 --> 00:57:21,230
podcaster should have a voice in
this, and there
are a lot of

975
00:57:21,230 --> 00:57:24,255
groups that serve us as a group,
as a community,
right.

976
00:57:24,255 --> 00:57:26,528
And, but there's none of them
that are involved in this.


977
00:57:26,536 --> 00:57:29,740
This is all big corporate stuff,
and I mean, yeah, it's great


978
00:57:29,748 --> 00:57:32,015
they're talking to each other,
but when we're not represented,

979
00:57:32,015 --> 00:57:35,466
it creates a problem.
So, the organ is anybody that

980
00:57:35,466 --> 00:57:39,158
represents
the organization,
organization, or represents a

981
00:57:39,158 --> 00:57:41,566
organization
that serves
independent podcasters should

982
00:57:41,566 --> 00:57:44,020
some of them
should have a
seat at the table, for sure.

983
00:57:44,740 --> 00:57:46,990
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I agree with
you, and I think it might have

984
00:57:46,990 --> 00:57:50,380
been Dave Jackson that had said
on Saturday, like one of the

985
00:57:50,470 --> 00:57:52,930
companies that he feels should

be in there, which I agree is a

986
00:57:52,990 --> 00:57:56,932
company like Buzzsprout.
I mean,
they are the largest

987
00:57:56,932 --> 00:57:59,994
independent podcasting platform
out there,
they have the most

988
00:57:59,994 --> 00:58:03,414
independent podcasters on that
platform
hosting their

989
00:58:03,414 --> 00:58:07,360
podcast, so yeah, we, I think
having a company
like them

990
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:11,380
would, would do a lot, and it's,
and it's also, I just,
I find

991
00:58:11,380 --> 00:58:14,670
it odd, like, who first of all,
why did they, these
people or

992
00:58:14,670 --> 00:58:17,658
companies meet in secret?
What's the point of
that, and

993
00:58:17,658 --> 00:58:21,913
who picked them, right?
Like, just what made them
the

994
00:58:21,913 --> 00:58:24,900
ones to be the team?
I find it curious.

995
00:58:24,900 --> 00:58:26,465
Can Ralph Estep Jr.: I comment
on
this real quick?

996
00:58:26,465 --> 00:58:28,430
Yeah, and, bc, let me just
comment on this.

997
00:58:28,580 --> 00:58:30,500
Marc Ronick: Yes, I'll let

everyone comment, but we're way

998
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:33,965
over time, so hold off.
BC, did
you have something, or

999
00:58:33,965 --> 00:58:37,025
is that a legacy hand up?
I just wanted to
make sure,

1000
00:58:37,025 --> 00:58:38,990
because I saw it up there for a
minute.

1001
00:58:39,650 --> 00:58:41,606
BC Babbles: Legacy.
Sorry, Marc Ronick: no problem.

1002
00:58:41,606 --> 00:58:43,702
Go
ahead, Ralph.
Yeah, I want to comment on this,

1003
00:58:43,702 --> 00:58:46,450
because Adam
Curry actually
has the resolution to Dan: this

1004
00:58:46,450 --> 00:58:50,080
on podcasting 2.0 Last
Friday,
he made Ralph Estep Jr.: it, and

1005
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:53,140
it's
clearly you can do all
you've got to do is let the

1006
00:58:53,140 --> 00:58:55,650
hosting
companies make some
money based on this, and they

1007
00:58:55,650 --> 00:58:57,898
will share Dan: their first
Ralph Estep Jr.: party data, and

1008
00:58:57,898 --> 00:59:00,139

you will get all the
information you possibly need.

1009
00:59:00,139 --> 00:59:04,182
That really
is the answer to
the question, because once the

1010
00:59:04,182 --> 00:59:07,710
first party,
the hosting
companies, the people who like,

1011
00:59:07,710 --> 00:59:11,052
like Sam Seth,
is an example,
all the people who have hosting

1012
00:59:11,052 --> 00:59:13,596
companies have
all this
information, but they don't want

1013
00:59:13,596 --> 00:59:15,996
to share it, because
they
don't make any money from it.

1014
00:59:15,996 --> 00:59:18,466
If the advertisers really
want
this information, and this is

1015
00:59:18,466 --> 00:59:20,420
all about money, this is what

this is all about.

1016
00:59:20,420 --> 00:59:22,760
At the end of the day.
This is all about
trying to

1017
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,329
measure, so they can decide
where the ad dollars go.


1018
00:59:25,337 --> 00:59:29,288
I think Adam Curry is right on.
Give them a fractional piece of

1019
00:59:29,288 --> 00:59:32,780
that, and you will have more
data than you can ever handle,


1020
00:59:32,788 --> 00:59:36,325
and that will resolve the issue.
Marc Ronick: Thank you, Ralph


1021
00:59:36,333 --> 00:59:38,060
and Junaid.
You wanted to add something.

1022
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:40,990
Junaid: Yeah, what I wanted to

add was the reason DraftKings

1023
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,960
and the other big companies are
in there is because they're one

1024
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,350
of the largest spenders of ad

dollar, like I've seen

1025
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:52,215
DraftKings everywhere advertise.
Marc Ronick: Oh yeah, Junaid:

1026
00:59:52,215 --> 00:59:54,507
and so they're like,
hey, how
can we get more data back?

1027
00:59:54,507 --> 00:59:57,464
So that's one of the
reasons.
The other thing I wanted to

1028
00:59:57,464 --> 00:59:59,874
introduce was what's
stopping
us.

1029
00:59:59,874 --> 01:00:04,692
As indie podcasters to build a
body of governance of
what we

1030
01:00:04,692 --> 01:00:07,395
like to track, like what's
stopping us, so that's
another

1031
01:00:07,395 --> 01:00:09,108
thing that we can also think
about.

1032
01:00:09,108 --> 01:00:10,746
But this had been
an awesome
conversation.

1033
01:00:10,746 --> 01:00:12,730
Thank you so much.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, Janae, that


1034
01:00:12,738 --> 01:00:15,920
reminds me, I remember you were
part of that conversation on


1035
01:00:15,928 --> 01:00:19,286
Dave Jackson's Saturday show,
and I remember seeing you right

1036
01:00:19,286 --> 01:00:22,782
in the chat, Mark, we should
start something like this.

1037
01:00:22,782 --> 01:00:28,015
Yeah,
I mean, maybe I would
love to, and I don't want to

1038
01:00:28,015 --> 01:00:30,394
drive myself
completely
bonkers at the same time taking

1039
01:00:30,394 --> 01:00:33,686
on way too many
things, so I
have to think about how that

1040
01:00:33,686 --> 01:00:35,597
would work out.
But
yeah, great points,

1041
01:00:35,597 --> 01:00:37,400
Junaid, great points, Ralph, and

everybody.

1042
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,360
Sid, thank you all for sharing
your two cents.


1043
01:00:40,368 --> 01:00:44,350
Yeah, I think that we're mainly
all on the same page here.

1044
01:00:44,350 --> 01:00:46,936
I
don't think that this
particular committee is the one

1045
01:00:46,936 --> 01:00:49,654
that's
going to solve this
whole problem of defining

1046
01:00:49,654 --> 01:00:53,073
podcasting
and the money side
of it, etc.

1047
01:00:53,073 --> 01:00:56,560
I think that it's going to take
more than just that small group

1048
01:00:57,460 --> 01:01:00,546
to define it and to really flesh

this all out.

1049
01:01:00,546 --> 01:01:03,018
So, with that, remember we are
back tomorrow.


1050
01:01:03,026 --> 01:01:05,838
We've got our interview
tomorrow, and I feel awful,


1051
01:01:05,846 --> 01:01:08,085
Ralph.
I totally just, his name escaped

1052
01:01:08,085 --> 01:01:12,268
me, Ralph Estep Jr.: Jeff C,
Jeff,
and I put something in

1053
01:01:12,268 --> 01:01:15,060
out on all the socials with his
information.

1054
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:16,815
Marc Ronick: Yep, so come join

us.

1055
01:01:16,815 --> 01:01:19,285
Let's have an AI discussion,
another hot topic around the


1056
01:01:19,293 --> 01:01:22,545
world of podcasting and around
the world in general, so let's


1057
01:01:22,553 --> 01:01:25,226
talk about it tomorrow, am
Eastern time.

1058
01:01:25,226 --> 01:01:28,601
And you can find
us at
Podcasting Morning show.com/join

1059
01:01:28,601 --> 01:01:31,846
us if you want to
catch the
video, if you want to catch us

1060
01:01:31,846 --> 01:01:34,070
on Clubhouse, wherever
you
want to catch us, that's the

1061
01:01:34,250 --> 01:01:37,700
link to find us.
So, until
tomorrow, make it a

1062
01:01:37,700 --> 01:01:39,530
great day, everybody.
Take care.