552. Which Podcasting Best Practices Still Work?

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Marc Ronick: Good morning,

podcasters.

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Today is Thursday, july 16,
2020-six and today,
keep it,

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00:00:12,590 --> 00:00:16,700
dump it, or change it.
We're putting podcasting's most

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00:00:16,700 --> 00:00:20,856
common habits on trial, forcing
everyone to pick a side before


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defending everything from video
to ratings, reviews, and more.


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So, if you're listening live on
Clubhouse, hit the share button,

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00:00:28,611 --> 00:00:31,605

top right hand side of the
screen, and share it however


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Clubhouse lets you.
And if you're catching us via

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podcast,
YouTube, etc. please
share this episode with a fellow

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00:00:37,915 --> 00:00:40,605
podcaster.

And now, give us about 30

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seconds, and we'll get things

rolling.

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Thanks for being here.
The podcasting morning show is


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powered by Ironick Media,
helping podcasters launch,


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polish, and grow great shows,
and by Content creators'


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accountant helping creators
build real business behind their

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content.
Good morning again, podcasting

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morning show.
Thank
you so much for being

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here.
I am your host, Mark Ronick, and

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currently on stage, we've got
a pretty full house here.

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We have
Ralph Eastep, D.R.
Fay, Philbetter Beastie Babbles,

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and
I'll tell you why I'm
laughing in a second.

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We also have Janaid
Ahmed and
Dan and Rez from the audience

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are here on stage as
well.
Okay, I did get everybody this

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time.
I think so.

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BC, you
were telling me that I
totally skipped you last.

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I guess
yesterday.
BC Babbles: Yes, yes, yes.

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But
you know, I'm not salty
about it.

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It's all good.
It's all Marc Ronick: right, all

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right.

You mentioned it, so you got

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maybe a slight salt.
BC Babbles: Okay, a little


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salty, a little salty.
We're all, but it's all good

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now.
Marc Ronick: All right.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: I think

something's in order.

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I think we should play BC's
jingle just to
make sure

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everybody feels good.
So let's do it.

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Audio Clip: Yeah.
BC Babbles: There it is-the


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jingle for the guy who has
fallen asleep on the show once


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or twice, half a dozen times,
Marc Ronick: Yes, and that was


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actually, I think, since the the
but who's counting?

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new change, since we started an
hour later, you do much better

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now, BC.
BC Babbles: There's been no


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need, so I suppose we'll go back
to our.

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I'm sure our normal
schedule
later in the year, so we'll see

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what happens then.
DR: We need to find a new jingle

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because that that groove is
just too good to give up.

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We need to
find a good, a
better jingle.

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Marc Ronick: Look, it works to

play first thing on the show in

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the morning, right?
Just to like
wake everybody up

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a little bit, give us a little
pep in our
step, even though I

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think our theme music does that.
But okay,
yes, it is a good

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groove.
All right, let's do it like

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this.
So
you heard me tease it at

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the top of the show.
I came up with
today's.

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I'll call it a game because most
podcasters follow a
lot of

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practices.
I'll call them, and those

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practices start
to become
standard or routine, right?

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Like, for example, we
publish
every week.

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We create clips.
We some of us record
video.

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We read guest bios on our shows.
We add calls to actions.


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Some of these practices
absolutely still serve us and


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still serve our communities.
Some may have run their course;

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others probably just need some
kind of update.

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So this morning
we're putting
seven-ish common podcasting

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practices to the
test.
I say seven-ish because we'll

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see how many we actually
get
through today.

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But for each one of these, we
have three
choices for all of

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you who want to participate
today.

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Those
choices are keep it,
dump it, or change it.

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Now, this is in the
spirit for
those of you who may know the

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not so PC game F Mary
Kill.
Okay, I'm sure some of you have

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heard of that game before.

That game was you pick a person,

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usually it's a celebrity, and

then you or three different

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celebrities, and you have to

choose which one you would

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marry, kill, or have intimate

relations with.

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We'll go with that.
Dan: I'm not sure what that


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means about your thoughts on
marriage?

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Dump it is replacing Marc
Ronick: these days.

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Yeah.

All right.

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Let me give you the details of
how it works.

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Thank
you, Dan.
So each panelist gives a quick

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vote.
I'm going to tell
you the

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topic or the routine, and you're
going to each.

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Of
you, I'll go down the row
and give you guys a vote.

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All I want
you to do, because
this is a very chatty group, is

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tell me
keep it, dump it, or
change it, and then I'll go back

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and I'll
ask a couple of you,
or maybe all of you, depending

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on how
heated the discussion
gets, to explain your choices,

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and then
the team will discuss
and and perhaps challenge each

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other.

And of course, if you're in the

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chat and don't you know not on

Clubhouse or don't want to come

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up on stage to participate with
your voice, feel free to chime

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in in the chat.
And then we're
going to move

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on to the next topic.
So I really want to try
to

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follow this format because I
know that we go in with a lot of

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good intentions, following a
specific format, and then we


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usually stray from that.
So we'll see how we do.

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But Ralph Estep Jr.: did you,
Marc?


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Did you just say podcasters are
a bit chatty?

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Marc Ronick: You know, I've

learned that over the years.

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Yes, Ralph Estep Jr.: I think
you
might be right.

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Marc Ronick: Yeah, yeah, I think

that is true.

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Okay, so with that, let me pull
up my notes
here, and let's

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play.
And you know, it's funny.

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I was looking
for something I
could play.

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I'll just do this.
Let's play.

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Keep
it, dump it, or change
it.

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So, with that, let's go with the

traditional podcast intro.

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Okay.
So, what do I mean by that?


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Because a lot of people I think
have different definitions of


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intros, and by the way, I know
let me bring Junaid in.

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Junaid
wants to join us over
on video, so I'm bringing him

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in.
There he
is.

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So now we've got five of us on
camera.

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If you want to watch
us live
or catch us on video after the

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fact, just go to

podcastingmorningshow.com/joinus,

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and you can find all the

different ways that you can see

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us here on video or if you

prefer to the audio how you can

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find us that way as well so the
traditional podcast intro

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that's in my opinion starting
every
episode with theme music

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like ours theme music a produced

introduction a welcome, and an

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explanation of the show.
Now I
say like ours, but you

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know I think there are various
versions
of that.

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But that's what I'm talking
about.

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It's pretty much
like the
standard intro that you do on

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every show, and I know
that
not everyone does, but typically

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that happens a lot.

Okay, so let's go.

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And again, remember, it's keep
it, dump it,
or change it.

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I'm going to start.
I'll just start with
Janaid

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since he's the first person in.
Oh, actually, DR. is
on my

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screen, so I'm going to go with
DR first, ladies first.

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DR.
So, what say you?
Traditional podcast intro.

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DR: Change it.
Marc Ronick: Okay, DR. says


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change it.
Junaid, Junaid: dump it.

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Marc Ronick: Okay, Ralph, Ralph
Estep Jr.: double dump it.

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Marc Ronick: Okay, we got a

couple of dump its BC.

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BC Babbles: I'll say keep it.
Marc Ronick: Keep it.

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All right,
BC's keeping it.
So now we've got at least one

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for every
category.
Oh, here comes Sid.

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All right, and I'm going to fill

better.

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Phil, Phil: change it.
Marc Ronick: Okay, Phil says,


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"Change it.
Phil, for some reason, I have a

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vision of you
laying in your
bed right now.

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Am I right?
Phil: Will not confirm or deny


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said vision.
DR: Marc, why are you imagining

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him laying in bed?
Marc Ronick: It was the sleepy


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voice.
I heard the sleepy voice, and

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I'm like, he's got to be in

bed.

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All right, Dan, what say you
Dan: keep it Marc Ronick: and

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Rez, do you
want to play
along?

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Rez: 100% keep it, Marc.
Marc Ronick: 100% keep it.

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That
emphatic keep it.
Sid Meadows, welcome.

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How about you?
Sid Meadows: I'm gonna say


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change it.
Marc Ronick: Okay, change it.

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I
feel like that's the leader
right now.

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I should be keeping
score, and
I'm not.

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And and we also have Knikki, aka
Tide
Tutoring.

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Knikki, do you want to play
along?

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Knikki: Absolutely.
Marc Ronick: What would say you

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keep it, change it, dump it?
Knikki: I say keep it.

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Marc Ronick: Okay, so I think

change it kind of edged its way

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as the winner here.
And Ralph,
since you said

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double kill it, let's start with
you.

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Give us a
reason why.
Ralph Estep Jr.: I just think


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it's been played out too much.
I think that people want you to

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get right to the point, and
especially me because I'm video

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first.
Is I think you got to get right

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to the point and say,
"Here's
why I'm going to cover on

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today's show.
So I'm going to
I'm going to

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throw you for a loop.
I think you can do the


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traditional introduction, but
you start off with that teaser


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at the beginning that says,
"Here's what we're going to


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cover on today's show.
Then you might play your jingle

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and go
into why you're here.
But I think that the traditional

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play
that jingle first, people
just zone out.

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That's my personal
opinion.
Marc Ronick: That's fair.

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And
Ralph, what do you think?
Do you think then that people

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are
zoning out?
And you can be honest of our our

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show, like
because of that
intro.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: I think that we

should test not doing it that

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way.
I think we should test
having

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a tease.
Here's what we're going to cover

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on today's
show.
Make sure you join.

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You know, stay tuned.
Here we come.


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Then play the sound.
It's just an idea.

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Marc Ronick: Yeah.
Hey, this is
just a

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hypothetical situation.
Doesn't mean we're going to do


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it for sure.
And I know that there would

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probably be several
people
that would be pissed off that

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the music wouldn't play.

Nearly enough, DR. Did you want

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to chime in on all this?
DR: Yeah, so I'm coming at it


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from two different roads here.
For video, I say dump it, but


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for audio, I want to keep it,
but I want to really shorten it.

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I mean, I had an, I had, I used

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to have a client that used to go

into the introduction of her

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guest.
Well, she likes walks on
the

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beach and crocheting, and oh my
god, it was horrible.

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So
change that, keep it, but
change it, make it more precise,

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and
dump it for the video.
Marc Ronick: Okay, okay, and


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see, Tide Tutoring is laughing
over there at your some of your

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comments.
I guess BC, go ahead.

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BC Babbles: I want to say I like

Ralph's pivot there about

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giving it like a little tease
first and
then doing an intro

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if we still do one.
I say keep it though in


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general because I think it's
still an undeniable way to


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really set the tone of what your
show is, especially if you're a

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00:11:01,620 --> 00:11:05,065
video first like me, and
depending on the visuals you


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include in that sequence, people
can get a good idea of what's


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happened, what to expect before
you begin.

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But I also want to
mention
because someone just mentioned

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giving saying in this
episode
because I think we recently just

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decided that
saying something
like that can kind of kill the

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interest.
Marc Ronick: Yes, that was from

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00:11:23,446 --> 00:11:26,290
our interview, and we talked
about doing that in your show


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00:11:26,298 --> 00:11:28,802
notes.
And yeah, I think that can apply

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00:11:28,802 --> 00:11:31,118
to your intro too.
I
do.

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I will say I agree that it with
the people that say change
it.

217
00:11:35,563 --> 00:11:37,874
I don't think you get rid of it
altogether.

218
00:11:37,874 --> 00:11:41,325
And really,
Ralph, that's kind
of what you ended up saying here

219
00:11:41,325 --> 00:11:43,590
and
suggesting here, right?
You're not saying just get rid

220
00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:44,735
of it.
Ralph Estep Jr.: You played a


221
00:11:44,743 --> 00:11:46,543
little wiffle ball there, Marc.
Marc Ronick: Yes, you did, and


222
00:11:46,551 --> 00:11:48,583
that's okay.
We all do here sometimes, but

223
00:11:48,583 --> 00:11:53,059
yeah, I think
that short
intros is really where it's at.

224
00:11:53,059 --> 00:11:56,427
Your audience
does need to get
your new audience needs to get

225
00:11:56,427 --> 00:11:59,575
hooked in,
right?
And I think if you're just going

226
00:11:59,575 --> 00:12:03,156
to dive into the
episode with
no intentional start, right?

227
00:12:03,156 --> 00:12:07,608
To really get set
the table
for the audience, I think it

228
00:12:07,608 --> 00:12:10,780
feels a little empty.

It might fall a little short for

229
00:12:10,780 --> 00:12:13,075
a new audience.
I think if
you've got an

230
00:12:13,075 --> 00:12:17,209
established audience that keeps
coming back
every week or what

231
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have you, then yeah, maybe you
could get
away with just

232
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diving in, but I think if you're
really trying to
grow your

233
00:12:24,531 --> 00:12:27,515
your show and your audience and
community, I think
you need

234
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something there at the top.
Yeah, Ralph Estep Jr.: I would

235
00:12:30,849 --> 00:12:32,596
just
throw in there though.
I think you need if you're going

236
00:12:32,596 --> 00:12:35,623
to use
a jingle, you need to
make it super short because I

237
00:12:35,623 --> 00:12:38,849
think
there's there's a
tendency to have a long and

238
00:12:38,849 --> 00:12:42,327
gated jingle,
and I think that
is the button to just to drop

239
00:12:42,327 --> 00:12:44,272
out.
Marc Ronick: Okay, I'm going to

240
00:12:44,272 --> 00:12:47,969
give DR: strategy having to do
with
our theme song though

241
00:12:47,969 --> 00:12:50,987
about because we're live.
You, I
remember you mentioning

242
00:12:50,987 --> 00:12:53,960
one time, Marc.
Marc Ronick: Yes, yeah, we do.


243
00:12:53,968 --> 00:12:58,214
That's why sometimes I will say
here on the show, "Do as I say,

244
00:12:58,214 --> 00:13:01,402
not as I do, right?
Because yes, we are a podcast

245
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first.
I
consider us podcast first,

246
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but I also-it's actually maybe
it's
side by side.

247
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I don't know that I have a
first, a clear first,
because

248
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yes, I consider us a podcast
first, but we're a
morning

249
00:13:13,403 --> 00:13:16,341
show, and we do-we like to go
live, right?

250
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We like to do
it like a
morning show does it.

251
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So that live component is just

as high of a priority to me, and

252
00:13:23,765 --> 00:13:27,856
yeah, those longer intros feel a

little more appropriate on

253
00:13:27,856 --> 00:13:30,794
video to me for some reason.
Yeah, for
some reason, it's

254
00:13:30,794 --> 00:13:33,074
just with the music, the fanfare
a little bit.


255
00:13:33,082 --> 00:13:36,458
It just makes it feel more like
a morning show to me.

256
00:13:36,458 --> 00:13:38,000
That's the DR: rez has a
comment.

257
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,160
Marc Ronick: Yes, I saw that.

Yeah, okay, I'm going to go to

258
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,491
rez and Junaid.
So first, I'll
go to Rez, and

259
00:13:42,491 --> 00:13:44,646
then Junaidl have the final
word, and we'll move
on to the

260
00:13:44,646 --> 00:13:46,130
next one.
Go ahead, Rez.

261
00:13:46,130 --> 00:13:49,564
Rez: Yeah, I think for me, it's
my favorite thing to do.

262
00:13:49,564 --> 00:13:52,526
Like it's like your tagline.
It's
like it gives your

263
00:13:52,526 --> 00:13:56,305
episode a consistent identity.
It reminds
listeners what

264
00:13:56,305 --> 00:13:59,280
they're watching.
I just think it should be


265
00:13:59,288 --> 00:14:02,045
something that like you're proud
of yeah, something like your

266
00:14:02,195 --> 00:14:05,015
Marc Ronick: it's part of your

branding, yeah, Rez: exactly.

267
00:14:05,015 --> 00:14:07,235
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I'm with you
there, and that's why I think

268
00:14:07,235 --> 00:14:10,561
I'm with the consensus.
I think
if you're doing long

269
00:14:10,561 --> 00:14:12,525
intros, and what's a long intro,
right?


270
00:14:12,533 --> 00:14:16,145
What's a long intro?
I think if you're going honestly

271
00:14:16,145 --> 00:14:20,564
beyond 30
seconds, that's
probably nowadays a little too

272
00:14:20,564 --> 00:14:22,700
long for
my taste, for my
recommendation.

273
00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:25,016
DR: Did you see Tim's comment?

No, he just made Marc Ronick:

274
00:14:25,016 --> 00:14:27,446
share it.
Yeah, DR: my intro used to be

275
00:14:27,446 --> 00:14:31,310
three
minutes, but I've cut it
down to 15 to 30 seconds.

276
00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:34,610
Marc Ronick: Yeah, DR: because I
had to get an I
had an

277
00:14:34,610 --> 00:14:36,860
audience member tell me it was
too long.

278
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,250
Marc Ronick: Ooh, I like I

appreciate that you're listening

279
00:14:40,250 --> 00:14:42,959
to your audience, and that can

be a trap too, right?

280
00:14:42,959 --> 00:14:46,455
Because it's easy-at least for
me-it's
easy if I get one

281
00:14:46,455 --> 00:14:50,204
piece of feedback where a
listener says,
"I don't like

282
00:14:50,204 --> 00:14:52,697
this, even if they're doing it
constructively.


283
00:14:52,705 --> 00:14:56,459
It gets in my head, and yes,
they might be representing a


284
00:14:56,467 --> 00:14:59,847
portion of your audience, but is
that the majority that this


285
00:14:59,855 --> 00:15:01,202
person's representing?
Presenting, I think.

286
00:15:01,202 --> 00:15:04,096
Just make
sure that if you're
gonna make a change because of

287
00:15:04,096 --> 00:15:07,181
one person,
make sure you're
doing a little research first to

288
00:15:07,181 --> 00:15:10,145
make sure
that's maybe not the
only person that doesn't like

289
00:15:10,145 --> 00:15:12,295
what you're
doing.
DR: And Marc, actually, your


290
00:15:12,303 --> 00:15:16,378
head is a little different than
most other heads because of the

291
00:15:16,378 --> 00:15:18,068
ADHD thing.
Marc Ronick: Well, yes, that's


292
00:15:18,076 --> 00:15:19,293
true.
But where are you going with

293
00:15:19,293 --> 00:15:19,945
that?
I'm not sure.

294
00:15:19,945 --> 00:15:22,106
Where
is your head?
You said it DR: gets in your

295
00:15:22,106 --> 00:15:24,455
head and you
can't get it out.
Yes, that's true.

296
00:15:24,455 --> 00:15:26,859
I Marc Ronick: could get

hypervixated on that.

297
00:15:26,859 --> 00:15:28,939
Yes, yeah.
Tide, I think you had something.

298
00:15:28,939 --> 00:15:30,635


I know I said Junaid is going to

299
00:15:30,635 --> 00:15:32,405
have the final word, but I'm

going to check in with you

300
00:15:32,405 --> 00:15:34,477
first.
Knikki: Yeah, I was just going


301
00:15:34,485 --> 00:15:36,877
to say that the game that we
were playing, keep it, dump it,

302
00:15:36,877 --> 00:15:39,166
change it.
For me, whenever I hear the word

303
00:15:39,166 --> 00:15:41,767
change, it's not
necessarily
synonymous with improve, so

304
00:15:41,767 --> 00:15:45,219
that's the reason
why I picked
keep it because change for the

305
00:15:45,219 --> 00:15:47,139
sake of change
does not equate
to improvement.

306
00:15:47,379 --> 00:15:50,259
But if you're looking along the
lines of dump it, keep it,

307
00:15:50,289 --> 00:15:52,929
improve it, then yeah, I think

this conversation is really

308
00:15:52,959 --> 00:15:55,112
helpful.
Marc Ronick: Yes, and consider


309
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,109
that improve it.
I'm going to still call it

310
00:15:58,109 --> 00:16:01,550
change it, but for
the
definition, let's just say

311
00:16:01,550 --> 00:16:02,650
that's what it means.
Yes.

312
00:16:02,650 --> 00:16:04,997
Okay,
Junaid, final word for
you, and then we're moving to

313
00:16:04,997 --> 00:16:08,642
the next
category.
Junaid: So dump it because we're

314
00:16:08,642 --> 00:16:11,816

consuming so much content
without any intro.

315
00:16:11,816 --> 00:16:15,662
Have you
scrolled?
Like, if you just go back to

316
00:16:15,662 --> 00:16:19,225
your past 24 hours, how
did
you consume content?

317
00:16:19,225 --> 00:16:21,335
Did any of those videos have an
intro.

318
00:16:21,545 --> 00:16:23,113
Marc Ronick: Well, they had a

hook.

319
00:16:23,113 --> 00:16:25,240
A lot of them.
Junaid: That's not an intro.


320
00:16:25,248 --> 00:16:27,760
It's not the same.
Marc Ronick: But isn't it like


321
00:16:27,768 --> 00:16:30,275
for social media?
Isn't that maybe considered an

322
00:16:30,275 --> 00:16:33,695
intro when
it comes to a short
form video?

323
00:16:33,695 --> 00:16:35,975
Junaid: I mean, then why do you
call it a hook?

324
00:16:35,975 --> 00:16:38,283
Marc Ronick: Yeah.
I mean, I'm
getting a little.

325
00:16:38,283 --> 00:16:40,279
These are semantics, and you're
right.

326
00:16:40,279 --> 00:16:42,884
You
are so.
Junaid: I mean, yes.

327
00:16:42,884 --> 00:16:45,440
Change it,
improve it is
definitely better.

328
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,984
But again, get that feedback

from the audience.

329
00:16:47,984 --> 00:16:52,096
If you've watched Netflix or
Apple TV,
they have a big ass

330
00:16:52,096 --> 00:16:56,063
button right there: skip intro,
skip recap,
all of this.

331
00:16:56,063 --> 00:17:00,352
Because people who are coming
back to your show
over and

332
00:17:00,352 --> 00:17:03,839
over every single day, they
don't need that fanfare.


333
00:17:03,847 --> 00:17:07,895
Sure, they might like the music,
like the thing you mentioned and

334
00:17:07,895 --> 00:17:09,968

Res mentioned.
You like your own intro.

335
00:17:09,968 --> 00:17:12,964
Who doesn't like their
own
intro or own stuff?

336
00:17:13,085 --> 00:17:14,648
Marc Ronick: Right, be a little
self-serving.

337
00:17:14,648 --> 00:17:16,131
Right, it's Junaid:
self-serving.

338
00:17:16,131 --> 00:17:18,964
So from
that perspective, test
it.

339
00:17:18,964 --> 00:17:23,289
Right, maybe that should be no

test to dump it, Marc Ronick:

340
00:17:23,289 --> 00:17:25,865
test change it.

Well, I mean, honestly, test it

341
00:17:25,865 --> 00:17:30,110
would be the first choice that

I'll call it the forced choice

342
00:17:30,110 --> 00:17:32,837
because you're right, Janaid.
I
think before you really

343
00:17:32,837 --> 00:17:36,164
decide any of those three, I
think, or
maybe once you've

344
00:17:36,164 --> 00:17:39,188
decided one of those three, it's
important to
test it before

345
00:17:39,188 --> 00:17:42,680
you actually pull the trigger on
it, yeah, I'm
with you there.

346
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,680
Dan: And this is why you can't

play this game with podcasters.

347
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,552
That's so true.
Now we have 14
different

348
00:17:49,552 --> 00:17:54,215
options, and who was it?
Tim in the chat instantly
put

349
00:17:54,215 --> 00:17:56,389
depends.
Like five seconds into before

350
00:17:56,389 --> 00:17:58,715
the show started, I
think.
Marc Ronick: Yes.

351
00:17:58,715 --> 00:18:01,779
So everybody,
listen.
We know that we we are the king

352
00:18:01,779 --> 00:18:06,344
of it depends right
like we
say that all the time and I know

353
00:18:06,344 --> 00:18:09,245
that our friend Ariel

Nissenblatt she has a business

354
00:18:09,245 --> 00:18:12,830
name called Well It Depends and
it's all a podcasting business

355
00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:19,160
so yeah it does and again gang

we're playing a game damn it go

356
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,090
go with it just go along with

it, enjoy, and we're sticking

357
00:18:23,090 --> 00:18:25,472
with keep it, dump it, or change

it.

358
00:18:25,472 --> 00:18:28,785
We're defining those a little
bit as we go, and that's
the

359
00:18:28,785 --> 00:18:33,435
way we're playing the game.
So the next topic up for debate:

360
00:18:33,435 --> 00:18:35,810

asking for ratings and
reviews.

361
00:18:36,305 --> 00:18:40,655
Right, so we hear this all the

time, especially on the DIY

362
00:18:40,655 --> 00:18:45,785
independent podcasters shows

where we're regularly asking

363
00:18:45,785 --> 00:18:48,500
listeners to rate and review the

podcast.

364
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:53,337
So let's go down the line: keep
it, dump it, or
change it.

365
00:18:53,337 --> 00:18:56,959
Going with you again, DR. DR:
Change it, Marc Ronick: change

366
00:18:56,959 --> 00:18:58,895
it for DR.
Ralph.
Ralph Estep Jr.: Dump it.

367
00:18:59,555 --> 00:19:00,380
Marc Ronick: Ralph says, "Dump

it.

368
00:19:00,380 --> 00:19:02,000
BC.
BC Babbles: Dump it.

369
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,232
Marc Ronick: Okay, two dump its.



370
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,670
Let's go to Phil.
Phil: I'm going to say keep it.

371
00:19:08,090 --> 00:19:09,872
Marc Ronick: All right, keep it.



372
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,800
And Sid Meadows, Sid Meadows:
keep it.

373
00:19:12,490 --> 00:19:14,118
Marc Ronick: All right, we got a

couple of keep it.

374
00:19:14,118 --> 00:19:16,060
All right, so it's get kind of
getting.

375
00:19:16,060 --> 00:19:18,589
We're
getting a mixed bag.
Dan, Dan: dump it.

376
00:19:18,589 --> 00:19:21,940
We do it twice a
year, and
we've got like 200 reviews.

377
00:19:21,940 --> 00:19:23,068
Marc Ronick: Okay, there you go.



378
00:19:23,076 --> 00:19:25,120
How long has your show been
running?

379
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:28,720
Dan: 11 seasons.
Okay, Rez, how about you?

380
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,432
Rez: 100% keep it. 100% keep it.



381
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,201
All right, and Knikki, Knikki: I
missed it.

382
00:19:34,201 --> 00:19:36,605
What were
we Marc Ronick:
ratings and
reviews?

383
00:19:36,605 --> 00:19:39,745
Asking for ratings and reviews
on your show.

384
00:19:39,775 --> 00:19:41,957
Knikki: Dump it.
Marc Ronick: Dump it, okay.

385
00:19:41,957 --> 00:19:43,673
Kind
of a mixed bag.
What?

386
00:19:43,673 --> 00:19:45,577
So I'm going to stick with you
for a
second, Knikki.

387
00:19:45,577 --> 00:19:48,205
If you have a second, why dump
it?

388
00:19:48,745 --> 00:19:51,736
Knikki: For me, it comes across
as desperate.

389
00:19:51,736 --> 00:19:55,111
I have supreme confidence in
everything that I
do, and I

390
00:19:55,111 --> 00:19:57,055
have supreme confidence in my
podcast.

391
00:19:57,055 --> 00:19:59,815
So I,
if I ask for something,
it.

392
00:19:59,815 --> 00:20:03,370
It's not coming from oh please
do
this for me and I feel like

393
00:20:03,370 --> 00:20:06,370
sometimes it can come across

that way in most cases not

394
00:20:06,370 --> 00:20:09,700
necessarily in yours but just in

when I watch YouTube videos

395
00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:12,760
people they come across as like
very desperate like please

396
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,970
follow me please subscribe and

please do this and please do

397
00:20:15,970 --> 00:20:18,190
that and they might not have to
say please but it still gives

398
00:20:18,190 --> 00:20:21,145
that energy I just don't like it

at all if I want to subscribe,

399
00:20:21,145 --> 00:20:24,473
it's because I know that you too

are supremely confident in

400
00:20:24,473 --> 00:20:25,873
what you do.
I've really liked your


401
00:20:25,881 --> 00:20:27,471
content, and I don't want to
miss it.

402
00:20:27,471 --> 00:20:31,073
And if I come at it
from that
angle, I just feel like it's

403
00:20:31,073 --> 00:20:32,776
better.
It's better
for the listeners,

404
00:20:32,776 --> 00:20:35,497
and it's not begging.
It's not asking for
something.

405
00:20:35,497 --> 00:20:38,962
It's it feels like it's sort of
like asking for a
favor, and I

406
00:20:38,962 --> 00:20:41,869
just don't like that.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I can feel


407
00:20:41,877 --> 00:20:43,857
that.
I mean, I think if anyone here

408
00:20:43,857 --> 00:20:47,020
has, anyone listening right

now has listened to this show

409
00:20:47,020 --> 00:20:49,630
for any period of time,

something I barely do, and

410
00:20:49,630 --> 00:20:53,050
sometimes I kind of feel guilty
about it because here's the

411
00:20:53,050 --> 00:20:57,222
deal: I just saw John ask in the

chat, "What does a review do

412
00:20:57,222 --> 00:21:00,175
for your show?
It's just an ego
boost for the

413
00:21:00,175 --> 00:21:03,269
podcast host.
Yes, I think it serves that as

414
00:21:03,269 --> 00:21:06,815
that,
but I do also believe
it's social proof.

415
00:21:06,815 --> 00:21:12,532
I will most of the
time, if
I'm picking between two shows

416
00:21:12,532 --> 00:21:16,202
that are talking about
similar
things, I'm gonna go first.

417
00:21:16,202 --> 00:21:18,805
If they're both new to
me, I'm
gonna go first with the one

418
00:21:18,805 --> 00:21:20,965
that's got more reviews,

better reviews.

419
00:21:20,965 --> 00:21:23,737
That's going to be the deciding
factor for me.


420
00:21:23,745 --> 00:21:26,956
If they are truly, if they are
apples to apples, right?

421
00:21:26,956 --> 00:21:28,828
Like
it's not about the
guests.

422
00:21:28,828 --> 00:21:31,948
It's it just they're evenly
matched
except for the ratings

423
00:21:31,948 --> 00:21:34,360
and reviews.
I'm going with the one
that's

424
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:37,107
got more reviews and better
reviews, just like I do
when

425
00:21:37,107 --> 00:21:39,290
I'm shopping on Apple.
Ralph Estep Jr.: But can you


426
00:21:39,298 --> 00:21:41,650
trust shopping on Amazon?
But can you trust those reviews,

427
00:21:41,650 --> 00:21:43,300

Mark?
Because there is a cottage

428
00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:46,540
industry of people out there in
the podcasting realm who are

429
00:21:46,540 --> 00:21:50,230
offering to to do reviews for

you for a price.

430
00:21:50,230 --> 00:21:52,420
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I mean that's

fair too.

431
00:21:52,420 --> 00:21:56,875
And I think what I like example,
if I'm shopping on
Amazon, I

432
00:21:56,875 --> 00:21:59,857
don't just look at the overall
five star reviews.

433
00:21:59,857 --> 00:22:03,551
You
know, I don't see if it
says okay, 4.6 I'm in.

434
00:22:03,551 --> 00:22:06,577
I mean that
that is step one,
right?

435
00:22:06,577 --> 00:22:08,423
And that's the same for a
podcast.


436
00:22:08,431 --> 00:22:11,653
If I see it's got a high review
rating, I'm like, I'm in.

437
00:22:11,653 --> 00:22:14,137
But
then, but I'm not going to
hit play yet.

438
00:22:14,137 --> 00:22:17,458
I'm going to then go
and read
some of the actual reviews, and

439
00:22:17,458 --> 00:22:21,020
if they feel
genuine to me,
that's going to be enough for

440
00:22:21,020 --> 00:22:22,861
me.
I know that
there are people

441
00:22:22,861 --> 00:22:25,905
out there that are paying for
phony reviews,
and I'm just

442
00:22:25,905 --> 00:22:30,368
doing my best to to make that
discernment and and
make my

443
00:22:30,368 --> 00:22:32,998
choice accordingly.
Anyone else want to chime in


444
00:22:33,006 --> 00:22:34,146
here?
You know, yeah.

445
00:22:34,146 --> 00:22:37,237
And Dr. You and I were talking
right
before the show, and I

446
00:22:37,237 --> 00:22:40,168
was asking you because I know
you
listen to a lot of the big

447
00:22:40,168 --> 00:22:44,101
name podcasts as well, like
Conan
O'Brien, like Good Hang,

448
00:22:44,101 --> 00:22:47,755
and Good Hang is a newer show
for me
as far as regularly

449
00:22:47,755 --> 00:22:49,345
listening, so I couldn't
remember.

450
00:22:49,345 --> 00:22:52,840
But like
my overall feeling,
my impression is most of these

451
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,807
big
name people don't ever
really ask for ratings and

452
00:22:55,807 --> 00:22:58,380
reviews, DR: right?
But you just said big
name;

453
00:22:58,380 --> 00:23:01,849
they don't have to.
They don't have to adhere to any

454
00:23:01,849 --> 00:23:06,450
of
those quote unquote rules
that us indie people have to.

455
00:23:06,450 --> 00:23:11,044
For
instance, SEO, AEO, all of
those things-they don't have to

456
00:23:11,044 --> 00:23:12,610
do
that.
They have big budgets.

457
00:23:12,610 --> 00:23:15,900
They can advertise.
They have
mounds of you know

458
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:20,188
people to advertise for them.
And there's
one other thing

459
00:23:20,188 --> 00:23:23,803
that I'm coining this phrase, so
if you ever hear
it, you know

460
00:23:23,803 --> 00:23:28,987
it came from me, and I call that
ECO, and that is
eye-catching

461
00:23:28,987 --> 00:23:32,685
optimization, which has it's a
direct correlation to
your

462
00:23:32,685 --> 00:23:37,461
title and your cover art, and
you know, I mean, think of
the

463
00:23:37,461 --> 00:23:39,424
Beatles' white album; they're
the Beatles.

464
00:23:39,424 --> 00:23:42,145
Who gives a
damn?
I mean, it's the Beatles.

465
00:23:42,145 --> 00:23:45,745
I'm going to buy the white

album, so it's the same thing

466
00:23:45,745 --> 00:23:47,540
with these big name podcasters.


467
00:23:47,548 --> 00:23:51,550
They don't have to adhere to any
of that stuff.

468
00:23:51,550 --> 00:23:54,372
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and the big

name podcasters.

469
00:23:54,372 --> 00:23:58,705
So we do know, especially from
some of our news
and comment

470
00:23:58,705 --> 00:24:03,055
episodes, that there is a large
percentage of the
podcast

471
00:24:03,055 --> 00:24:06,885
listening audience out there
that are listening to the
big

472
00:24:06,885 --> 00:24:10,272
name shows, the small shows,
smaller shows, quote unquote,


473
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,317
are not making up the vast
majority of podcast listeners.


474
00:24:14,325 --> 00:24:18,925
So where I'm going with this is,
if the majority of that audience

475
00:24:18,925 --> 00:24:22,171

is used to listening to
podcasts who aren't constantly

476
00:24:22,171 --> 00:24:26,565
asking you
for rating ratings
and reviews, and then they come

477
00:24:26,565 --> 00:24:29,920
find a quote
unquote smaller
show, and they hear these hosts

478
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,990
asking, "I'm
kind of with
Knikki.

479
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:34,480
I'm.
I wonder if the audience is


480
00:24:34,488 --> 00:24:36,970
thinking these guys sound
desperate.

481
00:24:36,970 --> 00:24:40,459
DR: Well, you know what?
One of
the things for us

482
00:24:40,459 --> 00:24:45,241
indies is that at the end of the
show it rolls
off hosts

483
00:24:45,241 --> 00:24:49,265
tongues just so naturally just
like how are you
I'm fine

484
00:24:49,265 --> 00:24:53,086
thank you it rolls it doesn't
mean anything leave a
rating

485
00:24:53,086 --> 00:24:56,806
and review leave a four four
star review it doesn't mean


486
00:24:56,814 --> 00:25:00,077
anything so I'm trying to get my
clients and.

487
00:25:00,077 --> 00:25:04,563
Habit of maybe not
every
episode, but maybe every other

488
00:25:04,563 --> 00:25:06,927
episode, and it's not a

desperate thing.

489
00:25:06,927 --> 00:25:10,770
It is a matter of fact kind of
tone that you
take.

490
00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:15,173
Listen, the reason why we need
you to do this is because
it

491
00:25:15,173 --> 00:25:18,610
helps our blah blah blah, and
you just get really transparent

492
00:25:18,610 --> 00:25:21,686
and really real with them, and
you slow it down.

493
00:25:21,686 --> 00:25:25,369
It's not raise
a review.
It's listen, rate and review.

494
00:25:25,369 --> 00:25:28,714
It's slowing it down,
making
it a little bit more granular,

495
00:25:28,714 --> 00:25:34,180
and I think the
transparency
will, you know, will help.

496
00:25:34,210 --> 00:25:35,367
Marc Ronick: Okay.
Okay.

497
00:25:35,367 --> 00:25:36,234
Fair.

Good strategy.

498
00:25:36,234 --> 00:25:39,280
I'm I'm with you there.
And BC, you wanted to
chime

499
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,025
in.
BC Babbles: Yeah, and I agree


500
00:25:41,033 --> 00:25:42,629
with everything that's been said
so far.

501
00:25:42,629 --> 00:25:45,157
Is social proof?
It does
help with rankings,

502
00:25:45,157 --> 00:25:49,542
but I think it also depends on
what the
ultimate goal for the

503
00:25:49,542 --> 00:25:52,692
podcaster is.
I think that you know
reviews

504
00:25:52,692 --> 00:25:55,975
can definitely help.
You know if you want to be up on

505
00:25:55,975 --> 00:25:58,517
the
leaderboards and whatnot,
but I think when it comes down

506
00:25:58,517 --> 00:26:01,837
to what
you want to leverage,
let's say with your trying to

507
00:26:01,837 --> 00:26:04,957
get
sponsorships, will it be
the couple of ratings you got X

508
00:26:04,957 --> 00:26:08,125
amount of months ago, or will
it be the consistent number of


509
00:26:08,133 --> 00:26:12,695
downloads and listeners that you
can almost guarantee to expose a

510
00:26:12,695 --> 00:26:16,228

partnering brand to per
episode, which would not

511
00:26:16,228 --> 00:26:18,604
necessarily be
reliant on
those reviews?

512
00:26:18,604 --> 00:26:21,652
Those are your actual active
audience
members, not the few

513
00:26:21,652 --> 00:26:24,675
that you got to give you this
social
proof.

514
00:26:24,675 --> 00:26:28,527
So the thing comes down to that
individual necessity or
need,

515
00:26:28,527 --> 00:26:31,210
depending on the person.
Yeah, Marc Ronick: Joe.

516
00:26:31,210 --> 00:26:32,855
Yeah, that
makes a lot of
sense.

517
00:26:32,855 --> 00:26:35,725
Thank you, BC and Rez.
You wanted to chime
in as well

518
00:26:35,725 --> 00:26:37,579
before we move on.
Rez: Yes, please.

519
00:26:37,579 --> 00:26:41,095
I think if I
am a DJ, you're
hiring me as a DJ, right?

520
00:26:41,095 --> 00:26:44,110
If I don't have any
Google
reviews, would you really hire

521
00:26:44,110 --> 00:26:45,811
me?
Marc Ronick: No, Rez: I would

522
00:26:45,811 --> 00:26:49,678
rather have rather
had a ton
of bad reviews than no reviews

523
00:26:49,678 --> 00:26:51,670
at all.
That's just my
opinion.

524
00:26:51,670 --> 00:26:54,550
Marc Ronick: Well, I mean, to

me, it feels like those are kind

525
00:26:54,550 --> 00:26:57,242
of the same, right?
Because if
you got a lot of

526
00:26:57,242 --> 00:27:00,312
bad reviews, majority of bad
reviews or no
reviews, at

527
00:27:00,312 --> 00:27:02,736
least when it comes to me, you
don't.

528
00:27:02,736 --> 00:27:04,154
You're not
getting my
business.

529
00:27:04,154 --> 00:27:07,267
That's how I feel about it.
But yeah, I'm
with you on the

530
00:27:07,267 --> 00:27:10,080
other side of the coin.
Like like you said,
whether

531
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,248
it's a DJ service, a restaurant,
or a podcast, I
think that

532
00:27:14,248 --> 00:27:18,244
when there are visible ratings
and reviews, I
think it has

533
00:27:18,244 --> 00:27:19,795
influence.
I really do.

534
00:27:19,795 --> 00:27:21,175
Ralph Estep Jr.: Marc, can I

throw something in realquick?

535
00:27:21,175 --> 00:27:23,227
Marc Ronick: Yes, Ralph Estep
Jr.: I just think
you have to

536
00:27:23,227 --> 00:27:26,215
be wise in choosing your call to
action because the
thing we

537
00:27:26,215 --> 00:27:29,155
need to understand is your
listeners will only do one


538
00:27:29,163 --> 00:27:31,225
thing.
If you're giving them a basket

539
00:27:31,225 --> 00:27:34,465
of stuff to do, like hey,

leave a rating and review, do

540
00:27:34,465 --> 00:27:37,063
this, do that.
I think you need
to be very

541
00:27:37,063 --> 00:27:39,160
intentional, and this is one of
those places I think
where

542
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,658
there are a lot of people are
not as intentional as they


543
00:27:41,666 --> 00:27:43,420
could be.
Marc Ronick: Okay, yeah, fair.

544
00:27:43,420 --> 00:27:48,610
DR: So I will say on that that

you know the overall thought is

545
00:27:48,610 --> 00:27:52,200
one CTA, one CTA only.
Call
time.

546
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,080
I happen to think that listeners
can handle two.

547
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,788
I
happen to think that is
underestimating the capabilities

548
00:27:59,788 --> 00:28:05,089

of the average listener, and
they can handle two, but to have

549
00:28:05,089 --> 00:28:08,965

a whole plethora of them is
probably not very good.

550
00:28:08,965 --> 00:28:10,501
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I agree with
you.

551
00:28:10,501 --> 00:28:13,099
I really try not to worry so
much about it.

552
00:28:13,099 --> 00:28:16,745
Like if I've
already done one
call to action, I used to kind

553
00:28:16,745 --> 00:28:19,387
of get in my head
about it,
about wanting to do another one

554
00:28:19,387 --> 00:28:22,153
and holding back
because I've
already done one, but honestly,

555
00:28:22,153 --> 00:28:26,972
I just what I try
to do is if
I've got more than one, I try to

556
00:28:26,972 --> 00:28:30,559
follow it up by
reminding the
listener to go into the show

557
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:32,680
notes and pick
their poison.
Right, right.

558
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,588
That's ultimately the call to

action.

559
00:28:34,588 --> 00:28:37,120
Exactly.
Go check the the show notes, and

560
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,970
you've got
your menu of
choices what you want to do.

561
00:28:39,970 --> 00:28:42,400
And I get it.

Sometimes too many choices means

562
00:28:42,430 --> 00:28:44,200
they're not doing anything at

all.

563
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,646
But I just-it's one of those
things that I can't get in
my

564
00:28:47,646 --> 00:28:49,905
head about.
I got to just if if there's

565
00:28:49,905 --> 00:28:52,457
something important
that I
want to share with you, I'm

566
00:28:52,457 --> 00:28:54,343
going to share it.
Yeah,
it's up to you if you

567
00:28:54,343 --> 00:28:55,817
want to actually take action on
it.

568
00:28:55,817 --> 00:28:58,555
Sid,
I'm going to give you the
final word.

569
00:28:58,555 --> 00:29:00,745
Sid Meadows: So I think

intention is a really good word

570
00:29:00,775 --> 00:29:03,745
to think about with this, and

any call to action is what's

571
00:29:03,745 --> 00:29:07,477
your intention around it.
And
for me, I suck at this,

572
00:29:07,477 --> 00:29:10,380
and I'm going to be the first to
admit
that I suck at putting

573
00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:14,100
call to actions in my show.
I forget
because I get so

574
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:17,042
engrossed in the conversation
and so focused
on what's in

575
00:29:17,042 --> 00:29:19,212
front of me that I forget to do
it.

576
00:29:19,212 --> 00:29:22,153
And sometimes I
do it at the
end, but we know that the ending

577
00:29:22,153 --> 00:29:25,260
is not
necessarily the best
place to put it.

578
00:29:25,260 --> 00:29:30,889
But I'm absolutely 100
okay
with asking a listener to leave

579
00:29:30,889 --> 00:29:32,842
a rating and review of the

show.

580
00:29:32,842 --> 00:29:35,113
If you're really enjoying this
content, please leave us a


581
00:29:35,121 --> 00:29:36,705
rating and review.
It helps our show get

582
00:29:36,705 --> 00:29:38,025
discovered.
For me,
that's about it.

583
00:29:38,025 --> 00:29:42,184
When I say it, that's about it.
I did have a
listener who I

584
00:29:42,184 --> 00:29:44,857
had coffee with in Chicago a few
weeks ago.

585
00:29:44,857 --> 00:29:47,355
Said
said, "How can I?
He's a longtime listener.

586
00:29:47,355 --> 00:29:49,475
He said, "How
can I support
this show?

587
00:29:49,475 --> 00:29:51,049
And I said, "That's a really
great
question.

588
00:29:51,049 --> 00:29:53,537
Thank you for asking it.
And I said, "The best way
that

589
00:29:53,537 --> 00:29:56,030
you can support the show and
support me, because actually


590
00:29:56,038 --> 00:29:57,735
he framed it, how can I support
you?

591
00:29:57,735 --> 00:29:59,565
I said, "Share the episode

with."

592
00:29:59,565 --> 00:30:01,998
Share an episode that you think
will help somebody.

593
00:30:01,998 --> 00:30:04,615
Just
share it one time,
because that gives me reach,

594
00:30:04,615 --> 00:30:06,685
right?
And so,
and I started

595
00:30:06,685 --> 00:30:10,022
including occasionally that in
there in my
call to action

596
00:30:10,022 --> 00:30:13,576
when I do it, because I forget,
admittedly,
that hey, if you

597
00:30:13,576 --> 00:30:16,840
got some value out of today and
you know
somebody that could

598
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,759
that could enjoy that would I
forget how I
say would enjoy

599
00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:21,709
this or whatever, blah blah
blah.

600
00:30:21,709 --> 00:30:24,205
Then
please share this episode
with them.

601
00:30:24,595 --> 00:30:26,520
Marc Ronick: Yeah.
Sid Meadows: So I mean, I think

602
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,260
the intention behind it is
really to Tide's point earlier


603
00:30:29,268 --> 00:30:32,830
about it sounding sleazy.
I will also say, in my sponsor

604
00:30:32,830 --> 00:30:36,353
package,
when I sent up my
media kit, was second page,

605
00:30:36,353 --> 00:30:40,605
third page of my
media kit was
nothing but a page full of

606
00:30:40,605 --> 00:30:42,580
reviews that people had
left
me on my podcast.

607
00:30:42,580 --> 00:30:43,985
Marc Ronick: Yeah, Sid Meadows:
Is it impactful?

608
00:30:43,985 --> 00:30:47,066
I
don't know if it helped them
make a decision or not, but at


609
00:30:47,074 --> 00:30:50,235
least they could hear what my
community was saying about this

610
00:30:50,235 --> 00:30:53,408
show, whether it was five years
or one year old.

611
00:30:53,408 --> 00:30:56,512
I still put
them out there
because I felt like it was

612
00:30:56,512 --> 00:31:00,320
credibility that
could benefit
the list, the sponsor from

613
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,368
seeing.
Marc Ronick: I think it does


614
00:31:02,376 --> 00:31:05,257
help subtly to include that.
Let me clear my throat.

615
00:31:05,257 --> 00:31:08,933
Subtly to
include that in a
media kit, those those reviews,

616
00:31:08,933 --> 00:31:12,370
and because
I think what's
going to happen is, yeah, I

617
00:31:12,370 --> 00:31:16,305
don't think that the
sponsor
is shuffling through a media kit

618
00:31:16,305 --> 00:31:19,601
looking to see, okay,
what are
the ratings and reviews for this

619
00:31:19,601 --> 00:31:21,334
show?
But I do again
think that

620
00:31:21,334 --> 00:31:25,270
there is some influence there.
I think that it
only can help

621
00:31:25,270 --> 00:31:28,468
the cause if you're going to try
to close
somebody.

622
00:31:28,468 --> 00:31:30,184
Yeah, subliminally or what have
you.

623
00:31:30,184 --> 00:31:32,053
Yeah, absolutely.

All right, let me see.

624
00:31:32,053 --> 00:31:34,702
Did anyone else have?
I know that I
saw Gabe said in

625
00:31:34,702 --> 00:31:37,303
the chat here.
I sometimes forget to use a CTA.

626
00:31:37,303 --> 00:31:39,250


I'm trying to get better at it.

627
00:31:39,250 --> 00:31:41,869
I mean that we'll get to it.
I
think that's one of the

628
00:31:41,869 --> 00:31:43,827
topics.
The CTA itself is one of my


629
00:31:43,835 --> 00:31:46,468
topics here.
I'll see if we can get to that

630
00:31:46,468 --> 00:31:47,945
one.
Actually, you
know what?

631
00:31:47,945 --> 00:31:50,023
Let me see here.
Let me see.

632
00:31:50,023 --> 00:31:50,926
Yes.
All right.

633
00:31:50,926 --> 00:31:53,033
You know
what?
Let's just do it.

634
00:31:53,033 --> 00:31:56,173
Calls to action and multiple
calls to
action.

635
00:31:56,173 --> 00:31:59,033
Right.
So ending just for those who may

636
00:31:59,033 --> 00:32:02,587
be a little
unclear for our
newer podcasters, ending an

637
00:32:02,587 --> 00:32:06,928
episode by
asking listeners to
follow, subscribe, rate, review,

638
00:32:06,928 --> 00:32:11,755
maybe
join your course or buy
your course, follow you on

639
00:32:11,755 --> 00:32:14,398
social
media.
However, that looks, you're

640
00:32:14,398 --> 00:32:17,206
asking your audience to
do
something.

641
00:32:17,206 --> 00:32:20,975
Okay, so let's just focus on
multiple calls to
action since

642
00:32:20,975 --> 00:32:24,140
Dr. and I kind of went there for
a moment.

643
00:32:24,140 --> 00:32:27,388
Keep
it, dump it, change it.
Multiple calls to action through

644
00:32:27,388 --> 00:32:29,320
the
show.
Let's hear from some others for

645
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,120
this one.
Since we
already started

646
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,855
touching on it, I won't do the
formal part of
the game.

647
00:32:33,855 --> 00:32:35,506
I'm just going to let some
people chime in.

648
00:32:35,506 --> 00:32:37,585
Tell me if
you want to keep
it, dump it, or change it.

649
00:32:37,585 --> 00:32:41,185
DR: Can you define multiple?
Marc Ronick: Yeah, you say you


650
00:32:41,193 --> 00:32:43,675
have like what we do here every
so often.

651
00:32:43,675 --> 00:32:46,627
I'm talking about
something.
It reminds me, ooh, this would

652
00:32:46,627 --> 00:32:49,882
be something that I
think my
community would like, and then I

653
00:32:49,882 --> 00:32:52,831
give them something
to go do.
Go check out our website.

654
00:32:52,831 --> 00:32:56,829
Go check out this news
article
we're talking about, et cetera,

655
00:32:56,829 --> 00:32:59,234
et cetera.
So it's
happening more than

656
00:32:59,234 --> 00:33:01,228
once.
You're asking your audience to

657
00:33:01,228 --> 00:33:04,252
do
something more than once.
So, DR. you've already weighed

658
00:33:04,252 --> 00:33:05,800
in.

Would somebody else like to

659
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,456
weigh in?
Keep it, change it,
dump it,

660
00:33:07,456 --> 00:33:09,118
and why?
Sid Meadows: Yes, I agree with


661
00:33:09,126 --> 00:33:10,570
DR. No more than two.
Keep them.

662
00:33:10,570 --> 00:33:12,130
They're important, but no more

than two.

663
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,910
Marc Ronick: And why is that?

You think after two, what

664
00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:17,090
happens?
Sid Meadows: Again, I think


665
00:33:17,098 --> 00:33:20,360
about my behavior as a listener.
And if I'm listening to a show


666
00:33:20,368 --> 00:33:24,064
because oh do this oh go do this
oh buy my show buy my buy my


667
00:33:24,072 --> 00:33:26,768
course like oh buy this at the
end of the thing at the end of


668
00:33:26,776 --> 00:33:29,156
the episode I don't know what
the hell to do Marc Ronick: yeah

669
00:33:29,156 --> 00:33:31,580
okay like Sid Meadows: I'm just
like I'm
lost like okay I'm

670
00:33:31,580 --> 00:33:34,823
not going to do anything because
give me too
many things to do

671
00:33:34,823 --> 00:33:37,813
I'm just not going to go do
anything so if
you

672
00:33:37,813 --> 00:33:41,011
strategically place one in the
middle and one in the end
not

673
00:33:41,011 --> 00:33:43,996
stack them right behind each
other, but one in the middle and

674
00:33:43,996 --> 00:33:47,041

then one in the end, and I
think that can be very

675
00:33:47,041 --> 00:33:48,955
effective.
So, Marc Ronick: but let me ask

676
00:33:48,955 --> 00:33:52,606
you
this: let me ask you this.
So, you're listening to a

677
00:33:52,606 --> 00:33:56,206
podcast
about podcasting.
You're looking to level up the

678
00:33:56,206 --> 00:33:59,511
podcast again,
and that it
there are multiple CTAs in

679
00:33:59,511 --> 00:34:03,608
there, and one of those
CTAs
says, "I guarantee you, I have a

680
00:34:03,608 --> 00:34:06,562
method to get real
organic
growth with your podcast.

681
00:34:06,562 --> 00:34:10,649
By if you go to this
link and
check out this service, I

682
00:34:10,649 --> 00:34:13,274
guarantee you that service is

going to work.

683
00:34:13,274 --> 00:34:17,438
But then there are other calls
to action, like
check out this

684
00:34:17,438 --> 00:34:19,197
news article we're talking
about.

685
00:34:19,197 --> 00:34:22,956
Go to my
website where I'm
offering X, Y, and Z.

686
00:34:22,956 --> 00:34:26,478
If you heard that one
that
guaranteed you something, or

687
00:34:26,478 --> 00:34:30,241
just really got your
interest,
don't you think you would still

688
00:34:30,241 --> 00:34:32,719
go do that during or
after the
show?

689
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,043
Sid Meadows: That depends on who

the host is, because I listen

690
00:34:36,043 --> 00:34:39,800
to a lot of podcasts about

podcasting, and that depends on

691
00:34:39,830 --> 00:34:41,440
who the host is.
But that also
comes across as

692
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,916
cheesy to me.
Come buy my $99 course for it.


693
00:34:43,924 --> 00:34:47,659
I'm gonna tell you how to use
AppSumo to get all these great


694
00:34:47,668 --> 00:34:49,447
things into one thing.
Blah blah.

695
00:34:49,447 --> 00:34:52,123
That just sounds cheesy to
me.
Promising me growth.

696
00:34:52,123 --> 00:34:54,520
That just I would not do that.
I'd
probably go read an

697
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,734
article that they referenced
rather than
actually making

698
00:34:56,734 --> 00:34:58,945
that purchase.
Marc Ronick: Well, okay, and


699
00:34:58,953 --> 00:35:01,680
maybe it's maybe I'm not.
Choosing the topic of most


700
00:35:01,688 --> 00:35:04,482
interest, or maybe you're
skeptical of that topic.

701
00:35:04,482 --> 00:35:09,024
But my
point is, if they say
something that is of extreme

702
00:35:09,024 --> 00:35:13,460
interest to
you, and then
follow it up later in the show

703
00:35:13,460 --> 00:35:17,430
with other calls to
action,
I'm willing to bet that you and

704
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:20,661
most people, if they've
truly
piqued your interest, you're

705
00:35:20,661 --> 00:35:22,870
going to go do that.
You
might not do the other

706
00:35:22,870 --> 00:35:27,460
calls to action, but if you are
giving
the calls to action the

707
00:35:27,460 --> 00:35:31,531
right fit calls to action to
your
audience, I think they're

708
00:35:31,531 --> 00:35:34,008
going to pick and choose the
ones that
really pique their

709
00:35:34,008 --> 00:35:36,256
interest.
Sid Meadows: Okay, so I need to

710
00:35:36,256 --> 00:35:38,212
know who put something in
Mark's coffee this morning,

711
00:35:38,212 --> 00:35:39,778
making him
all spicy this
morning.

712
00:35:39,778 --> 00:35:41,738
Do I seem spicy?
Just kidding, Marc.


713
00:35:41,746 --> 00:35:43,728
I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding, Marc.

714
00:35:43,728 --> 00:35:45,442
I'm just Marc.
Ralph Estep Jr.: Mark, I've got

715
00:35:45,442 --> 00:35:46,330
some.
Wait, hold on, hold on one

716
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:47,620
second.
Marc Ronick: Let's go to finish

717
00:35:47,620 --> 00:35:49,706
Sid's thought.
Sid Meadows: I want to know


718
00:35:49,714 --> 00:35:53,071
what's a call to action because
oh hey, somehow another episode

719
00:35:53,071 --> 00:35:56,430
gets referenced in the
recording that I'm doing, and I

720
00:35:56,430 --> 00:35:59,777
say we'll
drop the link to
that episode in the show notes

721
00:35:59,777 --> 00:36:02,753
for you, so you
don't have to
go looking for it.

722
00:36:02,813 --> 00:36:05,760
Is that a call to action, or is
that just a yeah?

723
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,128
Marc Ronick: That's what I was

dancing around.

724
00:36:07,128 --> 00:36:10,014
I mean, I feel like it is in the
sense it's
like go to the show

725
00:36:10,014 --> 00:36:12,308
notes, get the link.
Like that is a call to
action.

726
00:36:12,308 --> 00:36:13,929
You're asking your audience to
do something.

727
00:36:13,929 --> 00:36:15,588
Now,
Ralph, you wanted to
chime in.

728
00:36:15,630 --> 00:36:18,132
Actually, I'm just Sid Meadows:
saying, but I'm but
I'm just

729
00:36:18,132 --> 00:36:20,539
saying, hey, we'll drop it in
the show notes for you if


730
00:36:20,547 --> 00:36:22,772
you'd like to so for easy access
or with something to that


731
00:36:22,780 --> 00:36:24,218
effect, right?
I'm not saying go to the show

732
00:36:24,218 --> 00:36:26,020
notes and click that
link and
go listen to that episode.

733
00:36:26,020 --> 00:36:29,832
That's not what I'm
saying.
Marc Ronick: Okay, so you're


734
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,354
saying what?
DR: There's a way of liminally


735
00:36:32,362 --> 00:36:35,876
to you know put it in there.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, yeah.

736
00:36:35,876 --> 00:36:37,996
And
Sid, you're saying what?
And then I know a lot of people

737
00:36:37,996 --> 00:36:39,560
want
to chime in.
I'm going to get to all of you

738
00:36:40,340 --> 00:36:41,980
Sid Meadows: because you're

being spicy, everybody wants to

739
00:36:42,010 --> 00:36:46,180
like take a fight with you.
No,
I just say when somebody

740
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,900
references or somehow it comes

up, I'll say we'll drop a link

741
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:52,052
to that episode.
It's number, if
I can

742
00:36:52,052 --> 00:36:55,061
remember, it's one number 102
We'll drop the link in the


743
00:36:55,069 --> 00:36:56,950
show notes for you.
That's all I say.

744
00:36:57,220 --> 00:36:58,885
Marc Ronick: Okay, Sid Meadows:
I don't say go to
the show

745
00:36:58,885 --> 00:37:00,950
notes and listen to it.
I'm putting it there as a


746
00:37:00,958 --> 00:37:02,710
reference point.
The same thing about somebody's

747
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:04,310
book.
If I've
interviewed somebody

748
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:06,876
that wrote a book, we'll drop a
link to the
to this book in

749
00:37:06,876 --> 00:37:09,855
the show notes for you.
I'm not saying go do
it, but

750
00:37:09,855 --> 00:37:12,360
it's there if you want to.
Marc Ronick: Okay.

751
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,343
Sid Meadows: So that'sfor me the

difference is a mention versus

752
00:37:15,343 --> 00:37:18,104
a go rate and review the show.
Go
leave.

753
00:37:18,104 --> 00:37:21,622
You know, like take this action.
Go buy this product.

754
00:37:21,622 --> 00:37:25,138
I
think they're different
mention versus a true call to

755
00:37:25,138 --> 00:37:26,564
action.
Marc Ronick: Okay, Ralph, what


756
00:37:26,572 --> 00:37:28,678
say you?
And again, I see all of you

757
00:37:28,678 --> 00:37:31,250
wanting to chat to you.
Ralph Estep Jr.: I wanted to


758
00:37:31,258 --> 00:37:32,717
look at some actual research
here.

759
00:37:32,717 --> 00:37:35,591
Edison Research Podcast

Consumer 2026 found 76% of

760
00:37:35,649 --> 00:37:39,056
weekly podcast consumers said

they've acted after hearing a

761
00:37:39,113 --> 00:37:42,116
podcast ad by visiting a

website, making a purchase,

762
00:37:42,174 --> 00:37:45,177
using a promo code, or

recommending a product, humor

763
00:37:45,234 --> 00:37:47,082
was the top driver of attention.



764
00:37:47,090 --> 00:37:50,538
But then there's a prodigy that
says the last distinction is


765
00:37:50,546 --> 00:37:54,045
repetition of one ask is fine.
Multiplication of different asks

766
00:37:54,045 --> 00:37:57,607

is what kills conversion.
Too many options block rather

767
00:37:57,607 --> 00:38:00,197
than
enrich.
So listeners hearing review us,

768
00:38:00,197 --> 00:38:03,788
join us on Facebook,
register
for the website, and rate the

769
00:38:03,788 --> 00:38:06,066
five stars.
Typically,
do nothing at all.

770
00:38:06,066 --> 00:38:08,160
That's what the research is
showing.

771
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,010
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and so

slightly different, right?

772
00:38:11,070 --> 00:38:14,384
Because those are ad specific,

not calls to action.

773
00:38:14,384 --> 00:38:17,940
But if we're really getting into
the
semantics, isn't a call to

774
00:38:18,030 --> 00:38:20,597
action more or less an ad?
It's
just a really short and

775
00:38:20,597 --> 00:38:22,280
sweet one.
Ralph Estep Jr.: That's what I


776
00:38:22,288 --> 00:38:24,590
was getting at, and it just-I
mean-so they work, but if you


777
00:38:24,598 --> 00:38:27,565
throw too many of them, the
research seems to say that you


778
00:38:27,573 --> 00:38:29,000
overwhelm people and they do
nothing.

779
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:30,625
Marc Ronick: Yeah.
Okay.

780
00:38:30,625 --> 00:38:33,667
Let me
check in with Dan.
I know Rez wants to chime in,

781
00:38:33,667 --> 00:38:35,998
and Junaid,
and I see others
do as well.

782
00:38:35,998 --> 00:38:38,212
Go ahead, Dan.
Dan: Sid, first to you.

783
00:38:38,212 --> 00:38:41,154
We have
a saying.
At least I have a saying: Timid

784
00:38:41,154 --> 00:38:44,549
salespeople have
skinny kids.
You've got good stuff.

785
00:38:44,549 --> 00:38:48,377
You should be able to
say,
like, I don't want to bug you,

786
00:38:48,377 --> 00:38:51,190
but you could maybe I don't

know, kind of, if you want to

787
00:38:51,250 --> 00:38:53,230
buy blah blah blah.
Like, be
proud.

788
00:38:53,230 --> 00:38:56,206
You've got good stuff to say.
You're a smart guy.

789
00:38:56,206 --> 00:38:58,963
You
should actually just make
sure you're being clear.

790
00:38:58,963 --> 00:39:02,505
Secondly,
when it comes to
CTAs, I usually just weight them

791
00:39:02,505 --> 00:39:05,650
in importance
of what's in it
for the listener versus what's

792
00:39:05,650 --> 00:39:08,396
in it for me.
I
usually do our social media.

793
00:39:08,396 --> 00:39:10,350
I think that's our main call to
action right now.

794
00:39:10,350 --> 00:39:13,833
We do it at the very end.
It's like, oh,
follow us on

795
00:39:13,833 --> 00:39:16,195
Blue Sky and tell them how to do
it.

796
00:39:16,195 --> 00:39:19,602
Offer a
little bribe to get
them to do it, but we put it to

797
00:39:19,602 --> 00:39:22,139
the very
end because that's
why that's where our diehards

798
00:39:22,139 --> 00:39:24,796
are.
As far
as like just the other

799
00:39:24,796 --> 00:39:27,790
calls to action said it, you
know, you
said it.

800
00:39:27,790 --> 00:39:30,938
What did you say?
I'm doing incognito mode, just


801
00:39:30,946 --> 00:39:34,015
organic.
I mean, you're there if you

802
00:39:34,015 --> 00:39:35,715
always remember that

subliminally.

803
00:39:35,715 --> 00:39:37,052
Subliminally, yeah,
subliminally.

804
00:39:37,052 --> 00:39:40,220
I wonder why
I went to
incognito mode.

805
00:39:40,940 --> 00:39:44,638
Doesn't say a lot about me.
And
why are you laughing?

806
00:39:44,638 --> 00:39:47,856
Oh, you're the okay.
But like, if you can
work

807
00:39:47,856 --> 00:39:50,738
organically, all these things in
organically, you can
have a

808
00:39:50,738 --> 00:39:53,590
billion calls to action because
the goal should always
be to

809
00:39:53,590 --> 00:39:56,470
you know serve the listener.
And if you have a
thing that's

810
00:39:56,470 --> 00:40:00,054
going to serve the listener, you
don't have to just
be.

811
00:40:00,054 --> 00:40:02,922
Latent and say go here and buy
this.

812
00:40:02,922 --> 00:40:06,099
Instead, you'd if
you're a
chiropractor, you might just say

813
00:40:06,099 --> 00:40:07,653
something like, "No,
and
that's exact.

814
00:40:07,653 --> 00:40:10,564
Listen, if you have a sore back,
that's why I
did the how to

815
00:40:10,564 --> 00:40:12,546
stop a sore back thing in a
weekend.

816
00:40:12,546 --> 00:40:14,128
Go find it.

Go get it.

817
00:40:14,128 --> 00:40:17,220
You don't even have to tell them
how to get it,
where to get

818
00:40:17,220 --> 00:40:18,962
it.
If you're doing it organically,

819
00:40:18,962 --> 00:40:23,320
they're gonna
find it because
you've already served them,

820
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,206
they're probably
listening
because they have a pain point,

821
00:40:26,206 --> 00:40:27,863
and you just said,
"Hey, I'm a
chiropractor.

822
00:40:27,863 --> 00:40:29,615
If your back hurts, I got this

thing.

823
00:40:29,615 --> 00:40:31,802
Go find it.
It's why everyone loves my "How

824
00:40:31,802 --> 00:40:33,980
to Stop
Back Pain in a
Weekend" thing.

825
00:40:34,100 --> 00:40:38,090
Go find it, then keep going.

Going to come across more, like

826
00:40:38,420 --> 00:40:39,914
honestly, powerful.
You're going
to sell more of

827
00:40:39,914 --> 00:40:42,510
them.
Marc Ronick: Okay, fair fair


828
00:40:42,518 --> 00:40:44,019
point.
Thank you, Dan Rez.

829
00:40:44,019 --> 00:40:46,441
What say you, sir?
Rez: Appreciate it.

830
00:40:46,441 --> 00:40:48,417
I think it's
the way you say
it.

831
00:40:48,417 --> 00:40:51,088
It's like anything else.
Like first of
all, it's part

832
00:40:51,088 --> 00:40:54,784
of the sales process.
If you're not asking
for it,

833
00:40:54,784 --> 00:40:57,730
then you never know what's going
to happen.

834
00:40:57,730 --> 00:41:00,792
So if
you're saying like, "Hey
guys, don't forget to like,

835
00:41:00,792 --> 00:41:02,182
subscribe,
leave a five-star
review.

836
00:41:02,182 --> 00:41:05,216
That might be a little bit
cheesy,
but if you say like,

837
00:41:05,216 --> 00:41:07,824
if today's conversation gave you
a new
perspective or helped

838
00:41:07,824 --> 00:41:09,700
you in some way, please
subscribe.

839
00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:13,926
All
I'm saying is it's the way
you say it, so just make sure

840
00:41:13,926 --> 00:41:17,498
you're
saying it in a way that
is offering value instead of

841
00:41:17,498 --> 00:41:20,355
taking
value.
If that makes Marc Ronick: yeah,

842
00:41:20,355 --> 00:41:22,135
that makes
sense.
Thank you, Rez Junaid.

843
00:41:22,191 --> 00:41:25,110
Final word, because we got to

get into another category.

844
00:41:25,110 --> 00:41:28,745
I know, I know, DR. I know DR.
She
wants to really chime in.

845
00:41:28,745 --> 00:41:31,700
Okay, go ahead.
So every Junaid: episode, Mister

846
00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:34,957
Stephen
Bartlett is talking.
Start with you.

847
00:41:34,957 --> 00:41:37,730
The first thing he asks,

please go subscribe.

848
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:41,479
Marc Ronick: Okay, Junaid: this
is a show that has
multi

849
00:41:41,479 --> 00:41:44,136
million. subscribers.
He's still asking at the

850
00:41:44,136 --> 00:41:47,853
beginning of
the show, please
go subscribe because it helps

851
00:41:47,853 --> 00:41:50,381
us.
So I don't
think it matters if

852
00:41:50,381 --> 00:41:54,674
you have them or you, or if you
have too
many, because the

853
00:41:54,674 --> 00:41:58,631
audience who is listening to you
is listening
to you because

854
00:41:58,631 --> 00:42:01,832
they trust you.
So if you tell them the


855
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,254
assumption that we're making is
all for new people's


856
00:42:05,262 --> 00:42:07,685
perspective, which is fine,
makes sense.

857
00:42:07,685 --> 00:42:12,066
But once you have
that rhythm
down, I think having all these

858
00:42:12,066 --> 00:42:15,659
call to actions bring
the
listener closer to you than

859
00:42:15,728 --> 00:42:17,440
anything else.
Thank you.

860
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:18,276
Marc Ronick: Okay.
Yeah.

861
00:42:18,276 --> 00:42:21,017
So it's
sounding like I'm
going to go to you, DR. Because

862
00:42:21,017 --> 00:42:23,478
I know how
desperately you
want to chime in.

863
00:42:23,478 --> 00:42:26,203
Yeah, it sounds like we're

all, for the most part, in

864
00:42:26,255 --> 00:42:29,082
agreement to change it, or yeah,

change it or keep it.

865
00:42:29,082 --> 00:42:31,873
It sounds like is really where
everyone is
is leaning.

866
00:42:31,873 --> 00:42:34,423
So it's not nobody.
I don't think thinks we should


867
00:42:34,431 --> 00:42:37,091
just get rid of it, or at least
the majority don't.

868
00:42:37,091 --> 00:42:41,948
DR. What did
you want to add?
DR: So if we take a page out of

869
00:42:41,948 --> 00:42:45,410
Courtney Elmer's book, Courtney
Elmer, one of great podcasting


870
00:42:45,418 --> 00:42:52,800
guru, when she came out with her
course on SEO, she did an entire

871
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,470

episode on this course that
she's offering.

872
00:42:56,470 --> 00:43:02,116
She broke it
down what each
you know module was about so in

873
00:43:02,116 --> 00:43:05,898
a way that
entire episode was
a call to action.

874
00:43:05,898 --> 00:43:09,381
It was an infomercial Marc
Ronick: sounds like it
sounds

875
00:43:09,381 --> 00:43:11,842
like an infomercial.
DR: Well, it spoke to me.

876
00:43:11,842 --> 00:43:15,768
I
mean, I purchased it, and
then at the end, oh by the way,

877
00:43:15,768 --> 00:43:19,008
if
you want white glove
service, we do this as well.

878
00:43:19,008 --> 00:43:22,875
And if you make
that second
call to action, because a lot of

879
00:43:22,875 --> 00:43:25,553
us agree that
two calls to
action is appropriate.

880
00:43:25,553 --> 00:43:30,203
If you make that
second call
to action more of like go to the

881
00:43:30,203 --> 00:43:34,027
link in the show
notes, and
that link leads you to like a

882
00:43:34,027 --> 00:43:37,469
link tree where
there's a
bunch of choices, and they can

883
00:43:37,469 --> 00:43:39,997
have their choice of
what they
really want.

884
00:43:39,997 --> 00:43:41,984
I like that one.
Marc Ronick: Okay.

885
00:43:41,984 --> 00:43:43,426
Yeah. yeah.
Sid Meadows: Can I add to that


886
00:43:43,434 --> 00:43:44,574
for a second?
Marc Ronick: Yeah, go ahead,

887
00:43:44,574 --> 00:43:46,280
Sid.
Sid Meadows: Because DR. should

888
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,629
thank Sid for referring her to
that.

889
00:43:48,629 --> 00:43:52,855
Yes, DR. Some affiliate
links
for that nonsense right there.

890
00:43:52,855 --> 00:43:55,956
But here's what worked
about
Courtney's show.

891
00:43:55,956 --> 00:44:00,506
Like she's one of my go-to every
week
listens, and what worked

892
00:44:00,506 --> 00:44:03,699
about that show is it was packed
with
value.

893
00:44:03,699 --> 00:44:07,984
It was packed with value, and
then she sold you $149 I
think

894
00:44:07,984 --> 00:44:11,459
it was $149 course, and she
promised you 45 minutes


895
00:44:11,467 --> 00:44:15,798
course, and it was 45 minutes,
and she promised you X, Y, and


896
00:44:15,806 --> 00:44:20,316
Z, and it worked because I did I
did the work to go along with


897
00:44:20,324 --> 00:44:23,479
it, and it worked.
And but she she added value.

898
00:44:23,479 --> 00:44:26,899
She made a
promise.
She lived up to that promise,

899
00:44:26,899 --> 00:44:29,790
and it was a 20 minute
selling
episode.

900
00:44:29,790 --> 00:44:33,758
But it worked because of the
value that was
associated

901
00:44:33,758 --> 00:44:35,180
with.
DR: That's right.

902
00:44:35,180 --> 00:44:37,100
It didn't feel
like a
infomercial.

903
00:44:37,100 --> 00:44:39,980
I gained a lot of knowledge just
from that
episode.

904
00:44:39,980 --> 00:44:41,058
Marc Ronick: Okay.
Yeah.

905
00:44:41,058 --> 00:44:43,293
Fair
enough.
I'm just making a note here.

906
00:44:43,293 --> 00:44:47,038
Sorry for my pause there.

I'm making a note that I need to

907
00:44:47,101 --> 00:44:50,367
get Courtney on the show.
We've
had some back and

908
00:44:50,367 --> 00:44:52,680
forths.
Positively, it's just we haven't

909
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,954

been able to coordinate well
yet.

910
00:44:54,954 --> 00:44:58,444
So hopefully, this will be
a
sign that we can make this

911
00:44:58,507 --> 00:45:00,530
happen and get her on the show.


912
00:45:00,538 --> 00:45:03,605
Yeah, she's a very well
respected person in this


913
00:45:03,613 --> 00:45:06,200
industry.
And yeah, like you've heard, Sid

914
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,346
and DR are big fans.

Okay, I think we have time.

915
00:45:09,409 --> 00:45:12,203
Yeah, we have time for at least
one more.

916
00:45:12,203 --> 00:45:14,837
Let's dig into reading a guest's
full bio.

917
00:45:14,837 --> 00:45:17,580
Okay, so
this is opening an
interview, right?

918
00:45:17,580 --> 00:45:20,421
You've done your intro,
or
maybe you haven't.

919
00:45:20,421 --> 00:45:24,443
If you've dumped intros, opening
an
interview by reading the

920
00:45:24,443 --> 00:45:28,221
guest's formal professional
biography
and a list of

921
00:45:28,221 --> 00:45:30,793
accomplishments.
Okay, so keep it, change it, or

922
00:45:30,793 --> 00:45:33,242
dump it, and then we'll talk
about why.

923
00:45:33,242 --> 00:45:36,805
So only want your
keep it,
change, or dump answers right

924
00:45:36,805 --> 00:45:38,582
now.
Let's go to DR.
again.

925
00:45:38,582 --> 00:45:41,845
Go ahead, DR. DR: Dump it, Marc
Ronick: dump it, okay,
Ralph.

926
00:45:41,845 --> 00:45:43,950
How about you?
Ralph Estep Jr.: Oh, I think you

927
00:45:43,950 --> 00:45:46,294

should keep it for sure.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, Ralph Estep

928
00:45:46,294 --> 00:45:47,416
Jr.: absolutely not.
Marc Ronick: Okay.

929
00:45:47,416 --> 00:45:48,340
Oh, okay.
You
were.

930
00:45:48,340 --> 00:45:49,964
Ralph Estep Jr.: I'm just

totally being funny.

931
00:45:49,964 --> 00:45:52,476
It's horrible.
It's horrible if you
do that

932
00:45:52,476 --> 00:45:54,385
stop yesterday.
Marc Ronick: Okay, we'll talk.


933
00:45:54,393 --> 00:45:56,800
And BC, how about you?
BC Babbles: Change it.

934
00:45:57,310 --> 00:45:59,120
Marc Ronick: Change it.
Okay.


935
00:45:59,128 --> 00:46:01,980
How about you feel better if
he's not sleeping.

936
00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:03,215
Phil: I'm not.
I'm not.

937
00:46:03,215 --> 00:46:04,110
I'm not.
Marc Ronick: Okay.

938
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,024
Phil: Swear.
I'm awake.

939
00:46:06,024 --> 00:46:08,790
I say
change it because it's
well.

940
00:46:08,940 --> 00:46:10,838
Marc Ronick: Don't say yet.
Just
give me your answer right

941
00:46:10,838 --> 00:46:11,430
now.
Phil: Change it.

942
00:46:11,430 --> 00:46:13,360
Marc Ronick: Okay, got it.
Sid,
how about you?

943
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,000
Sid Meadows: Dump it and burn it

at the same time.

944
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,082
Marc Ronick: Okay, I think we

know Sid's opinion.

945
00:46:17,082 --> 00:46:19,800
How about you, Junaid?
Junaid: I would say change it.

946
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,220
Marc Ronick: Okay, Dan, what say

you?

947
00:46:22,220 --> 00:46:24,992
Dan: Dump, Marc Ronick: rez.
Rez: Oh my God!

948
00:46:24,992 --> 00:46:27,655
Keep it, keep it
for sure.
Marc Ronick: Wow, he's very.

949
00:46:27,655 --> 00:46:29,944
I
don't think he said change
it yet.

950
00:46:29,944 --> 00:46:32,456
It's either an emphatic
keep
or dump.

951
00:46:32,456 --> 00:46:35,195
Okay, how about you, Knikki?
We lost you.

952
00:46:35,195 --> 00:46:36,790
We
didn't hear you.
It.

953
00:46:36,790 --> 00:46:39,040
What is it?
All we got was it.

954
00:46:39,140 --> 00:46:40,988
Knikki: Oh God, my phone will

not work.

955
00:46:40,988 --> 00:46:42,752
Sorry, dump it.
Marc Ronick: Dump it.

956
00:46:42,752 --> 00:46:43,420
Okay.
All
right.

957
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:44,880
Knikki: Sorry.
Marc Ronick: No, no worries.

958
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,303
All
right.
So it sounds like the majority

959
00:46:46,303 --> 00:46:49,324
say dump it.
I want to
go to BC first

960
00:46:49,324 --> 00:46:52,030
because BC says change it.
What are you
thinking, BC?

961
00:46:52,750 --> 00:46:54,692
BC Babbles: Yeah.
At least from
my perspective,

962
00:46:54,692 --> 00:46:58,432
my show is not about just
showing off the
guests.

963
00:46:58,432 --> 00:47:03,064
They're there to take their
credentials and add to an


964
00:47:03,072 --> 00:47:06,225
actionable conversation.
I'm more than happy to give like

965
00:47:06,225 --> 00:47:08,316
a
small two three sentence
paragraph intro.

966
00:47:08,316 --> 00:47:10,380
Like this is
this person.
They've done this.

967
00:47:10,590 --> 00:47:14,130
They do this, and they're here

to help to help discuss this.

968
00:47:14,250 --> 00:47:18,165
You can find their expanded bio
in the description.

969
00:47:18,165 --> 00:47:21,170
But otherwise, for the airtime,
let's make it quick and easy.

970
00:47:21,290 --> 00:47:23,780
Get them onto the show, and then

just start having the

971
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:25,550
conversation.
I don't want to
spend.

972
00:47:25,550 --> 00:47:28,910
I want to talk about them a
little bit, but not spend like


973
00:47:28,918 --> 00:47:31,085
two minutes doing so.
Marc Ronick: Okay.

974
00:47:31,085 --> 00:47:32,868
Okay.
So that
feels a little similar

975
00:47:32,868 --> 00:47:35,622
to what we do here when we have
our
guests.

976
00:47:35,622 --> 00:47:39,229
And you know, Ralph, I know you
were saying dump it,
dump it,

977
00:47:39,229 --> 00:47:42,727
dump it, and I know you, Ralph.
Also, usually do our
intros

978
00:47:42,727 --> 00:47:46,344
for our guests a lot of times
because you end up being


979
00:47:46,352 --> 00:47:49,897
you've ended up being one of the
ones that are consistently


980
00:47:49,905 --> 00:47:53,288
booking our guests.
So I figure let's give Ralph the

981
00:47:53,288 --> 00:47:55,091
setup.
Do
you agree with BC?

982
00:47:55,091 --> 00:47:58,810
Because I feel like what BC is
saying is
kind of what we do.

983
00:47:58,810 --> 00:48:01,098
Ralph Estep Jr.: No, I don't.
I
think that you should dump

984
00:48:01,098 --> 00:48:03,821
it, and here's why I think you

should dump it.

985
00:48:03,821 --> 00:48:06,946
Because honestly, the value is
what your
audience gets from

986
00:48:06,946 --> 00:48:10,560
the person coming there, and you
don't have
to tell them why

987
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,928
they're there, who they are, and
what those
things are, because

988
00:48:13,928 --> 00:48:15,773
nobody cares.
Are you giving them
value?

989
00:48:15,773 --> 00:48:19,088
If at the end of the episode the
person's gotten
value, then

990
00:48:19,088 --> 00:48:21,686
you can plug it.
Go find out more information

991
00:48:21,686 --> 00:48:24,380
about
Joe.
If you do it at the front, I

992
00:48:24,380 --> 00:48:27,226
just don't see any value in

it, to be honest with you,

993
00:48:27,281 --> 00:48:30,421
because the value comes with

what they're bringing to the

994
00:48:30,476 --> 00:48:32,545
show.
And if you're a good
steward

995
00:48:32,545 --> 00:48:35,572
of your audience, you're not
going to bring somebody on


996
00:48:35,580 --> 00:48:37,360
your show who doesn't bring
value.

997
00:48:37,490 --> 00:48:40,760
Marc Ronick: Okay, I do hear you

loud and clear.

998
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:47,149
And then my question is, why
does say I love
them, like

999
00:48:47,149 --> 00:48:49,430
them, or indifferent doesn't
matter?

1000
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:52,699
Why does a late
night talk
show host like a Jimmy Fallon,

1001
00:48:52,699 --> 00:48:57,210
for example, when
every guest
is about to come onto the stage,

1002
00:48:57,210 --> 00:49:00,673
he does some
kind of intro,
and for the most part, we all

1003
00:49:00,673 --> 00:49:02,710
know who the guest
is already,
right?

1004
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:03,950
Because they're always
celebrities.


1005
00:49:03,958 --> 00:49:06,510
They're famous, but it's just-I
Ralph Estep Jr.: think that's


1006
00:49:06,518 --> 00:49:08,733
just a sacred cow.
They've always done that, so

1007
00:49:08,733 --> 00:49:10,377
that's what
they're going to
do.

1008
00:49:10,377 --> 00:49:13,080
And I don't think they're
thinking outside
the box.

1009
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,922
To be blunt with you, if I'm
listening to a podcast
and

1010
00:49:16,922 --> 00:49:19,995
somebody is pontificating about
somebody's bio, I'm like,
this

1011
00:49:19,995 --> 00:49:22,830
person doesn't know anything
because I want to hear
what

1012
00:49:22,830 --> 00:49:25,739
they have to say.
I want to hear the value for me.

1013
00:49:25,739 --> 00:49:27,711
You want
to put a buy at the
end.

1014
00:49:27,711 --> 00:49:31,083
I could almost buy into that,
but I want
to hear value from

1015
00:49:31,083 --> 00:49:33,522
the start.
Like when I go on other people's

1016
00:49:33,522 --> 00:49:36,444

shows, I want to deliver value
in the first minute.

1017
00:49:36,444 --> 00:49:39,455
Here's
something that you
didn't know before you tuned in

1018
00:49:39,455 --> 00:49:42,403
today that
you're going to be
able to take and use.

1019
00:49:42,403 --> 00:49:44,292
I think that's where
the value
is.

1020
00:49:44,292 --> 00:49:47,508
So, Ralph, what happens if?
So, let's say you're
going to

1021
00:49:47,508 --> 00:49:48,995
purchase some new software,
okay?

1022
00:49:48,995 --> 00:49:51,932
And I say to
you, Ralph, Marc
Ronick: here's this the the


1023
00:49:51,940 --> 00:49:53,106
commercial is here's the
software.

1024
00:49:53,106 --> 00:49:55,226
It's going to help you
with
your podcast.

1025
00:49:55,226 --> 00:49:57,730
Are you going to buy it?
Ralph Estep Jr.: No, but I would

1026
00:49:57,730 --> 00:49:59,784

say you'd do a better job if
here's why it's.

1027
00:49:59,784 --> 00:50:01,492
Going to help
you with your
podcast.

1028
00:50:01,492 --> 00:50:03,675
Okay, so the guest is going to
bring the.


1029
00:50:03,683 --> 00:50:05,640
Here's why they're going to
bring the receipts.

1030
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,616
Marc Ronick: Okay, I like that.
Ralph Estep Jr.: So that's what

1031
00:50:09,616 --> 00:50:11,235
I'm saying.
I think that your guest brings

1032
00:50:11,235 --> 00:50:13,120
the receipts.
The
receipts equal the bio,

1033
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,099
and it's much more valuable than
that
because if you have to

1034
00:50:16,099 --> 00:50:18,506
tell about everybody, well,
here's
what I've done.

1035
00:50:18,506 --> 00:50:19,811
Here's what.
Okay, who cares?

1036
00:50:19,811 --> 00:50:22,499
What is the
value for me?
We're living in a culture right

1037
00:50:22,499 --> 00:50:24,144
now.
People want
to know what the

1038
00:50:24,144 --> 00:50:27,226
value is for them in 30 seconds.
If you don't
deliver that,

1039
00:50:27,226 --> 00:50:29,342
they're tuning out.
Marc Ronick: So, Ralph, it's


1040
00:50:29,350 --> 00:50:32,784
sounding then to me, honestly,
and you can correct me, but it's

1041
00:50:32,784 --> 00:50:36,082

sounding more like change.
It is your answer because it's

1042
00:50:36,082 --> 00:50:39,311
because
you're suggesting at
least what you just said.

1043
00:50:39,311 --> 00:50:42,706
It's important to
at least
tell the listeners why you have

1044
00:50:42,706 --> 00:50:44,392
this guest on.
Ralph Estep Jr.: No, I don't


1045
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,110
think so.
No, no, I think it'd be fair to

1046
00:50:46,110 --> 00:50:47,836
say I'll give you a
great
example today.

1047
00:50:47,836 --> 00:50:50,140
We're joined by Sam Sethi, who's
CEO
of True Fans.

1048
00:50:50,140 --> 00:50:52,323
All right, Sam, what do you got
for us today?

1049
00:50:52,323 --> 00:50:55,098
I
think that's enough of an
intro, and then let Sam go into

1050
00:50:55,098 --> 00:50:57,426
here's
why I'm here, here's
what I'm proposing, here's what

1051
00:50:57,426 --> 00:50:59,962
I'm
doing, and here's the
value you get from it.

1052
00:50:59,962 --> 00:51:03,442
I think it's that simple.
Marc Ronick: I feel like so.

1053
00:51:03,442 --> 00:51:06,355
I
respectfully slightly
disagree with you because I do

1054
00:51:06,355 --> 00:51:10,132
believe
it's change it, and I
believe it's short and sweet.

1055
00:51:10,132 --> 00:51:11,826
I think
that's.
I think the.

1056
00:51:11,826 --> 00:51:14,710
I think it's courtesy to let the
guests
know.

1057
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:18,684
I'm sorry to let the audience
know why you've chosen
this

1058
00:51:18,684 --> 00:51:20,966
person.
Like, what is who is this

1059
00:51:20,966 --> 00:51:22,101
person?
Why are they
there?

1060
00:51:22,101 --> 00:51:24,520
But I don't.
I want to be very clear.

1061
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,480
I can't stand it
when bios are
read.

1062
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,827
I cannot stand it.
I will either tune out
or

1063
00:51:30,827 --> 00:51:32,775
skip.
Ralph Estep Jr.: You're right,


1064
00:51:32,783 --> 00:51:33,971
Marc.
And some of the most quote

1065
00:51:34,016 --> 00:51:35,176
accomplished people in

podcasting.

1066
00:51:35,176 --> 00:51:38,074
I tune into their show and
they're reading bios,
and I'm

1067
00:51:38,074 --> 00:51:41,170
like, "What are you doing?
Marc Ronick: Yeah, yeah.

1068
00:51:41,170 --> 00:51:42,052
Ralph Estep Jr.: It just doesn't

work.

1069
00:51:42,052 --> 00:51:43,240
You and I don't disagree that
much, Marc Ronick: right?

1070
00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:45,400
Ralph Estep Jr.: I think that

change it, make it very minute,

1071
00:51:45,610 --> 00:51:48,910
make it small.
But again, I go
back to Mark:

1072
00:51:48,910 --> 00:51:52,884
if your audience trusts you, you
don't need to
tell them why

1073
00:51:52,884 --> 00:51:55,234
the person's there.
They are going to trust
you

1074
00:51:55,234 --> 00:51:57,652
because Mark Ronick has Ralph on
the show.

1075
00:51:57,652 --> 00:52:00,724
Ralph is
bringing receipts.
I don't need to tell the

1076
00:52:00,724 --> 00:52:02,580
audience why I'm
here.
That's just my personal view,

1077
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,085
Marc Ronick: right?
And then we
have to think

1078
00:52:05,085 --> 00:52:07,964
about yeah, DR. agreeing, but
what about the new
people who

1079
00:52:07,964 --> 00:52:11,391
don't trust me yet, but trust me
enough just to
press play, but

1080
00:52:11,391 --> 00:52:13,040
don't know me?
And that's fine.

1081
00:52:13,050 --> 00:52:15,000
Ralph Estep Jr.: They're going

to hear the person give

1082
00:52:15,150 --> 00:52:17,430
receipts, and they're going to

say, "Oh, this smart guy, he

1083
00:52:17,580 --> 00:52:20,100
knows what he's talking about.

He got such and such on his show

1084
00:52:20,310 --> 00:52:23,330
who gave me something I can use
today to make money to make my

1085
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:25,284
life better take away a pain

point.

1086
00:52:25,284 --> 00:52:27,479
Okay, Marc Ronick: I'm gonna.
I know
that it's so funny

1087
00:52:27,479 --> 00:52:29,246
because Janaid really wanted to
chime
in.

1088
00:52:29,246 --> 00:52:32,490
I saw him constantly flashing
his emoji, and now he's
on the

1089
00:52:32,490 --> 00:52:34,426
phone.
I think is that true, Janaid?

1090
00:52:34,426 --> 00:52:35,915
Let me make sure.

Yes.

1091
00:52:35,915 --> 00:52:38,780
Okay, Dan, go ahead, and then
Sid, I'm coming to you.

1092
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,233
Dan: I've been following BC.
BC
is 100 right how he does

1093
00:52:42,233 --> 00:52:45,079
his show, he basically will come
up
with the topic.

1094
00:52:45,079 --> 00:52:47,152
Here's the thing I want to talk
about.

1095
00:52:47,152 --> 00:52:49,016
Here's the
guest I want to
talk to.

1096
00:52:49,016 --> 00:52:52,348
I'm going to work his bio into a

benefit of why people should

1097
00:52:52,402 --> 00:52:54,455
listen.
It's super short, super
sweet,

1098
00:52:54,455 --> 00:52:55,823
or succinct.
Maybe sweet.

1099
00:52:55,876 --> 00:52:58,595
I'm not going to say anything

about sweet, but right.

1100
00:52:58,595 --> 00:53:01,863
He just gets to the point, and
it's like
basically it's kind

1101
00:53:01,863 --> 00:53:05,124
of what Ralph is saying too.
But it's
like you need to

1102
00:53:05,124 --> 00:53:08,084
introduce the person, but you
definitely don't
need to read

1103
00:53:08,084 --> 00:53:11,508
the bio because even half of the
time they don't
want you to

1104
00:53:11,508 --> 00:53:14,245
read the bio because they're
bored with it and
they're

1105
00:53:14,245 --> 00:53:17,285
never going to share it.
So you always want to take


1106
00:53:17,293 --> 00:53:20,296
something that you can turn into
something super unique, so the


1107
00:53:20,304 --> 00:53:24,112
guest is going to want to share
that episode, but then also pays

1108
00:53:24,112 --> 00:53:25,685

off immediately for your
audience.

1109
00:53:25,685 --> 00:53:28,250
BC really does it right.
Marc Ronick: Okay, yeah, there


1110
00:53:28,258 --> 00:53:30,046
you go.
There's a little shout out for

1111
00:53:30,046 --> 00:53:31,280
yeah.
Go ahead, respond,
BC.

1112
00:53:31,310 --> 00:53:34,250
BC Babbles: I will say I've had
I have had one guest ask me

1113
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,266
like, where'd you get that bio

description from?

1114
00:53:36,266 --> 00:53:38,576
Can you like send it to me?
I want to use it
later.

1115
00:53:38,576 --> 00:53:40,718
I've had that one request.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, yeah.

1116
00:53:40,718 --> 00:53:44,720
I've
had guests back in the
day when I did longer bios or

1117
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:47,170
clients.

Even I've seen this happen on

1118
00:53:47,230 --> 00:53:49,255
occasion.
As much as I try to
get them

1119
00:53:49,255 --> 00:53:52,992
not to do a long bio, I think
some of them like to keep
it

1120
00:53:52,992 --> 00:53:56,140
because their guests respond to
it really well, and it helps


1121
00:53:56,148 --> 00:53:58,040
their guests really lean in
more.

1122
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,840
They're like feeling like

they've been put on a pedestal,

1123
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,438
and they're excited now to give
their answers.

1124
00:54:03,438 --> 00:54:06,684
That said, if that's your
strategy, more power
to you.

1125
00:54:06,684 --> 00:54:10,580
And I would probably still find
a way to edit that
down or

1126
00:54:10,580 --> 00:54:12,306
edit that out in post
production.

1127
00:54:12,306 --> 00:54:15,950
So yeah, give you
those
flowers to your guest if it

1128
00:54:15,950 --> 00:54:18,802
makes them feel good and you

think it sets the tone.

1129
00:54:18,802 --> 00:54:21,259
But then cut that down.
There was one
thing.

1130
00:54:21,259 --> 00:54:24,914
Oh, and here's just a little.
I'm not going to go to a
vote.

1131
00:54:24,914 --> 00:54:29,415
I'm just going to put my foot
down and say, "Kill it for


1132
00:54:29,423 --> 00:54:32,714
asking your guest.
Please tell us about what you

1133
00:54:32,714 --> 00:54:34,244
do.
Do not do
it.

1134
00:54:34,244 --> 00:54:35,468
Kill it.
Kill it.

1135
00:54:35,468 --> 00:54:38,079
Kill it.
You are going to get a long,


1136
00:54:38,087 --> 00:54:40,170
drawn out answer.
A lot of stumbling.

1137
00:54:40,170 --> 00:54:41,876
No, DR: don't introduce
yourself.


1138
00:54:41,884 --> 00:54:43,660
You're gonna cut it BC Babbles:
anyway in post.

1139
00:54:44,290 --> 00:54:45,842
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and you Ralph
Estep Jr.: lose all


1140
00:54:45,850 --> 00:54:47,788
credibility with your audience
because now your audience is


1141
00:54:47,796 --> 00:54:50,048
wondering: Does Marc even know
who's on the show today?

1142
00:54:50,048 --> 00:54:51,757
Do not
know exactly.
Marc Ronick: Right?

1143
00:54:51,757 --> 00:54:53,550
Yeah.
Okay,
Junaid, you're back from

1144
00:54:53,550 --> 00:54:55,840
your phone call.
Go ahead, chime in.

1145
00:54:55,900 --> 00:54:58,579
Junaid: Yes.
So what I was
saying is one of

1146
00:54:58,579 --> 00:55:02,756
the reasons why you want to.
Introduce the guest
is because

1147
00:55:02,756 --> 00:55:06,150
again the audience trusts you
more than the guest.


1148
00:55:06,158 --> 00:55:10,438
Even if the guest is popular,
they want your opinion.

1149
00:55:10,438 --> 00:55:15,064
So if
you set the stage right
for your guest, and then the

1150
00:55:15,064 --> 00:55:18,231
guest comes
and speak, they're
like, "Okay, here's why I'm

1151
00:55:18,231 --> 00:55:20,630
listening to this
guy.
Even if it's Mel Robbins

1152
00:55:20,750 --> 00:55:24,086
introducing Jay Shetty.
People
who listen to Mel

1153
00:55:24,086 --> 00:55:27,475
Robbins, they like her.
They don't know Jay,
right?

1154
00:55:27,475 --> 00:55:31,954
So having that intro is so
important because the
audience

1155
00:55:31,954 --> 00:55:36,030
you're essentially lending your
credibility to that
guest, and

1156
00:55:36,030 --> 00:55:40,408
that's why it's so important to
have a concise
intro, concise

1157
00:55:40,408 --> 00:55:44,113
saying that hey, here's why I'm
bringing them on,
and here's

1158
00:55:44,113 --> 00:55:47,575
what my audience loves, and this
is why I've
introduced this

1159
00:55:47,575 --> 00:55:49,705
person.
Like for example, I'm bringing

1160
00:55:49,705 --> 00:55:54,766
two
special guests on my show
today to promote Empowered

1161
00:55:54,766 --> 00:55:57,788
Podcasting
Conference.
Marc Ronick: Hey, let me give


1162
00:55:57,796 --> 00:56:01,200
you a ding for that.
Yes, I knew about that because I

1163
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,275
was trying
to coordinate a
meeting with my business

1164
00:56:03,275 --> 00:56:05,968
partners, and they're
both and
separately, individually.

1165
00:56:05,968 --> 00:56:09,144
I was talking to
them about
day and time, and I asked them

1166
00:56:09,144 --> 00:56:10,920
about today, this
afternoon.
They both said no.

1167
00:56:11,340 --> 00:56:13,522
I'm meeting with Janaid.
I'm
doing his show, and I'm

1168
00:56:13,522 --> 00:56:16,986
like, wait, how is that?
I didn't even
know I wasn't

1169
00:56:16,986 --> 00:56:18,752
invited.
Although I just saw my LinkedIn

1170
00:56:18,752 --> 00:56:20,306
that you
had invited me as
well.

1171
00:56:20,306 --> 00:56:21,788
But they are two separate
interviews.

1172
00:56:21,788 --> 00:56:24,417
I
get it.
So look, I think, and I still

1173
00:56:24,417 --> 00:56:26,450
want to hear from two more

people, and then we got to wrap

1174
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,740
up here.
But I think what I'm
hearing

1175
00:56:29,740 --> 00:56:33,516
most is there should be an
intro, but we really want to


1176
00:56:33,524 --> 00:56:37,043
make it short and sweet, and we
want to make it sound like we


1177
00:56:37,051 --> 00:56:39,694
know who this person is, even if
we don't, right?

1178
00:56:39,694 --> 00:56:42,850
We don't want
to sound like,
"Hey, they're new to me, just

1179
00:56:42,850 --> 00:56:45,302
like they're new to
you.
We want-I like my audience to

1180
00:56:45,302 --> 00:56:49,108
feel like I know my guest,
and
I hope that you have seen that,

1181
00:56:49,108 --> 00:56:53,152
seen me demonstrate that
when
I try to be as comfortable as

1182
00:56:53,152 --> 00:56:56,680
much as myself as I can be

with a guest, because I think it

1183
00:56:56,710 --> 00:57:00,330
portrays to my audience that

I've got some kind of

1184
00:57:00,390 --> 00:57:02,630
relationship with the person,

even if I don't.

1185
00:57:02,630 --> 00:57:05,829
All right, so I want to go to
Phil because Phil,
you were

1186
00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:08,235
going to give us your reason,
and I stopped you.

1187
00:57:08,235 --> 00:57:11,378
So I
want to hear that reason,
and then I'm going to give Sid

1188
00:57:11,378 --> 00:57:13,967
the
final word here.
So Phil, why did you give your

1189
00:57:13,967 --> 00:57:15,150
answer?
And
please remind me what your

1190
00:57:15,210 --> 00:57:20,070
answer was for the guest intro.
Phil: I say change it because if

1191
00:57:20,070 --> 00:57:23,484

they're giving you their bio,
that's the high points.

1192
00:57:23,484 --> 00:57:26,966
That's
their things they want
to show off, and they're

1193
00:57:26,966 --> 00:57:30,020
promoting it.

And that's probably not as Ralph

1194
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,536
has continually said.
It's what
value are you giving

1195
00:57:33,536 --> 00:57:36,390
your audience?
So you need to take
that bio

1196
00:57:36,390 --> 00:57:40,738
and you need to change it and
word it in a way that
will be

1197
00:57:40,738 --> 00:57:43,858
beneficial and show the value of
having this guest on.


1198
00:57:43,866 --> 00:57:48,205
Now I know Ralph mentioned like
having the guest show the value

1199
00:57:48,205 --> 00:57:50,512
right away.
Sometimes I prefer knowing who

1200
00:57:50,512 --> 00:57:52,339
the hell is going on
a
podcast.

1201
00:57:52,339 --> 00:57:55,320
Like there's a few podcasts that
I'm subscribed to
I don't

1202
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,300
listen to all the time because
their guests don't
interest

1203
00:57:58,300 --> 00:58:00,494
me.
But I love hearing the intro

1204
00:58:00,494 --> 00:58:03,380
that the host reads,
so that I
can be like, "Oh, this guest is

1205
00:58:03,380 --> 00:58:04,930
some someone
interesting to
me.

1206
00:58:04,930 --> 00:58:07,953
Because I'm not going to spend
the time
jumping into the show

1207
00:58:07,953 --> 00:58:09,830
notes looking.
I'm not someone who
reads show

1208
00:58:09,830 --> 00:58:11,724
notes.
I want to get straight to the

1209
00:58:11,724 --> 00:58:13,863
point.
So I
think taking the bio they

1210
00:58:13,863 --> 00:58:18,146
give you, changing it up into
the an
interesting intro for

1211
00:58:18,146 --> 00:58:21,982
the guest, like BC said, two to
three
sentences.

1212
00:58:21,982 --> 00:58:25,558
Make it quick, but demonstrate
the value that this
guest has.

1213
00:58:25,558 --> 00:58:28,146
But don't read their bio word
for word.

1214
00:58:28,146 --> 00:58:30,545
It's nothing
but PR.
Marc Ronick: Yeah.

1215
00:58:30,545 --> 00:58:32,750
So to sum up
what Phil's
saying, it depends.

1216
00:58:33,740 --> 00:58:36,518
And yeah, ask your audience.
I
mean, I know you didn't

1217
00:58:36,518 --> 00:58:39,053
directly say that, but look,
everybody's
different, right?

1218
00:58:39,053 --> 00:58:42,331
Like Ralph is emphatically like,
no, you can't
do that.

1219
00:58:42,331 --> 00:58:44,149
It's boring.
There, your audience doesn't

1220
00:58:44,149 --> 00:58:45,848
care.
But
then we have somebody like

1221
00:58:45,848 --> 00:58:48,460
Phil, who's like, well, that's

something I care about as the

1222
00:58:48,610 --> 00:58:50,830
listener.
I like to lean in and
hear who

1223
00:58:50,830 --> 00:58:53,605
my guest is about.
So that's why it depends, and


1224
00:58:53,613 --> 00:58:56,088
that's why ultimately it's
important to communicate with


1225
00:58:56,096 --> 00:58:58,435
your audience.
That's what it comes down to.

1226
00:58:58,435 --> 00:59:00,722
Sid, I'm going to
give you the
final word.

1227
00:59:00,722 --> 00:59:03,990
If you still have so, Sid
Meadows: yeah, I do.

1228
00:59:03,990 --> 00:59:08,244
So
first off, Mel Robbins is
the worst example in the world

1229
00:59:08,244 --> 00:59:12,406
about
reading bios because she
reads word for word for word for

1230
00:59:12,406 --> 00:59:15,126
like
feels like five pages.
So just for clarity, don't

1231
00:59:15,126 --> 00:59:16,928
benchmark
her.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, Sid Meadows:

1232
00:59:16,928 --> 00:59:18,780
but you know what?

There's an easy way to do this,

1233
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,260
I think, and that would be

something along the lines of,

1234
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,990
"Hey, Mark, you know one of the
reasons I wanted to have you on

1235
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,470
today's show is that you're a

podcast expert, and we want to

1236
00:59:27,530 --> 00:59:29,276
talk today about business and

podcasting.

1237
00:59:29,276 --> 00:59:32,450
And so I'm really excited for
you to share your
insights on

1238
00:59:32,450 --> 00:59:34,550
this.
I just set you up, right?

1239
00:59:34,550 --> 00:59:38,869
Yeah, without reading
your
bio, and I feel there's an easy

1240
00:59:38,869 --> 00:59:41,261
way to do this.
Yep, that
establishes that

1241
00:59:41,261 --> 00:59:43,589
credibility.
Marc Ronick: I love that, Sid,


1242
00:59:43,597 --> 00:59:46,308
and I'm glad I gave you that
final word there.

1243
00:59:46,308 --> 00:59:50,760
I think that
is spot on.
You can kind of give the

1244
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:54,428
credibility with the
question,
and then like we're talking

1245
00:59:54,428 --> 00:59:57,268
about here, as far as
like
they want you to read those bios

1246
00:59:57,268 --> 00:59:59,882
because those are the
things
that they love talking about.

1247
00:59:59,882 --> 01:00:01,737
Those are the things that

they're proud of.

1248
01:00:01,737 --> 01:00:05,095
Well, then ask them questions
about it, so we
can learn

1249
01:00:05,095 --> 01:00:09,102
about it and why it's so
important to them, why it's
so

1250
01:00:09,102 --> 01:00:10,860
valuable.
Ask questions around that.

1251
01:00:10,860 --> 01:00:13,860
I think that's so
key.
Thank you for that, Sid.

1252
01:00:13,860 --> 01:00:16,350
So great conversation today,
gang.


1253
01:00:16,358 --> 01:00:19,532
And we'll do this again because,
like I said, I had like seven or

1254
01:00:19,532 --> 01:00:22,052

eight of these, and we've only
went through a handful, so we'll

1255
01:00:22,052 --> 01:00:24,506

do this more.
Yeah, I think next week will be

1256
01:00:24,506 --> 01:00:27,608
good to do it.
I
hope you can see what makes

1257
01:00:27,608 --> 01:00:32,096
what we did so valuable, because
your
podcast habits might be

1258
01:00:32,096 --> 01:00:36,117
holding your show back-the same
intro,
the same publishing

1259
01:00:36,117 --> 01:00:38,782
schedule, the same promotional
routines.


1260
01:00:38,790 --> 01:00:42,706
At some point, intentional
choices, as we discussed,


1261
01:00:42,714 --> 01:00:46,585
intentional choices can turn
into habits that we never


1262
01:00:46,593 --> 01:00:49,117
question.
Every part of your podcast

1263
01:00:49,117 --> 01:00:52,453
deserves a check-in.
Ask
what each practice is

1264
01:00:52,453 --> 01:00:55,195
actually producing.
Is it helping people
find the

1265
01:00:55,195 --> 01:00:57,004
show?
Is it strengthening your

1266
01:00:57,004 --> 01:00:58,668
relationship
with the
community?

1267
01:00:58,668 --> 01:01:02,810
Is it sustainable for you?
We didn't
even talk about

1268
01:01:02,810 --> 01:01:04,944
that.
Keep what's working.

1269
01:01:04,944 --> 01:01:09,372
Dump what's
draining your time
without producing a meaningful

1270
01:01:09,372 --> 01:01:11,850
return.

Change what still has potential

1271
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:16,495
but needs a better approach.
In
my experience, my podcasts

1272
01:01:16,495 --> 01:01:20,268
get stronger when my choices are

intentional and connected to

1273
01:01:20,268 --> 01:01:22,715
the people I'm trying to serve.


1274
01:01:22,723 --> 01:01:26,651
Remember that we're back next
week with all new episodes on


1275
01:01:26,659 --> 01:01:28,070
Tuesday, Wednesday, and
Thursday.

1276
01:01:28,070 --> 01:01:31,010
Bring your podcasting

questions, bring your podcasting

1277
01:01:31,100 --> 01:01:34,660
knowledge, and let's dig into it

next week.

1278
01:01:34,660 --> 01:01:38,266
And until then, make it a great
day, everybody.

1279
01:01:38,266 --> 01:01:38,960
Take
care.