338 - Inside Podnews and Podcasting 2.0 with James Cridland

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Good morning Podcasting Morning
Chat.

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Today is Tuesday, July 15th,
2025, and today Pod News founder

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James Cridlin stops by to share
how Podcasting 2 Point O will

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transform the podcast industry.
Plus, he'll share tips to

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simplify your podcasting
process.

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So if you're listening live on
Clubhouse, hit the share button,

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bottom left hand side of the
screen and share it.

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However, Clubhouse lets you.
And if you're listening via

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podcast, please share this
episode with the fellow

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podcaster.
And now give us about 30 seconds

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and we'll get things rolling.
Thanks for being here.

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Good morning again podcasting
Morning Chat.

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Thank you for being here.
I am your host Mark Ronick and

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on stage with me we have my Co
hosts, producer Ashley Feller,

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Dr. Faye, Sid Meadows and Nick
Nalback.

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And of course, if you listened
to the intro, we also have James

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Cridlin here on stage with us.
And we're going to be finding a

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lot more about finding out a lot
more about James and pod news.

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And like I said, also podcasting
2 point O because it's kind of

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been a mystery to some of us,
Admittedly, as long as I've been

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in this game, it's 1 area I
haven't explored enough of and I

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think it's about time I do.
And I figure I'll take you along

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on the journey with me.
So actually what's funny is we

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wanted to get in touch with
James to talk about his

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workflow, his processes, his
tools.

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We know that James likes to use
a lot of his own home built

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tools as well.
So we want to hear a little bit

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more.
Get inside the head of James

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Cridlin.
So with that, let me first say

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hello to you James.
Good morning officially.

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I know you were in here chit
chatting before we started.

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I was, yes, 'cause I followed
the link and managed to open the

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room early, so that was fair rob
me, wasn't it?

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Yes, good thing you know a
little bit about Clubhouse.

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Yeah, scary.
Well, let's just dive right in.

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I think that's the best place to
start.

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And I'm going to remind
everybody to please hit that

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share button and invite others
into the room here live, If not,

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invite them to come listen to
the podcast a couple hours

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later.
So James, most people in the

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podcasting space know you as the
editor, the creator of Pod News.

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But I'm curious, what drove
drove you to launch Pod News in

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the 1st place?
And how is that vision changed

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or maybe grown over time because
you started at what, five years

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ago?
Yeah, I, I started it seven or

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eight years ago.
Eight years, in fact.

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Yes, Gosh, I was actually, I was
at a, so I've worked in radio

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for 35 years.
So, you know, definitely working

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around the audio area.
And actually I launched the

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first daily podcast from a radio
station back in March of 2005.

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SA long, long, long time ago.
I was at a radio conference

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actually in LA, and I was
talking to a friend of mine at

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the bar and he was saying, where
do you get your news about

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podcasting?
I hear the podcasting is a big

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thing now.
And, and I said, well, you know,

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I don't, I don't know whether
there is anywhere is there?

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And we couldn't really think of
anywhere that was a daily update

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on what was going on in the
podcast industry.

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And so I thought, yeah, maybe
there's an opportunity there.

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So.
So it took about a month or so,

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and then I sort of started it
and I've written it every single

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weekday since, which is quite
nice.

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And how have things changed
since eight years ago now?

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How, Especially with pod news
itself, What's maybe something

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that's been a big change for pod
news?

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There's been plenty of change,
of course, in the industry, but

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the real change from the POD
news point of view is that for

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the first nine months or so, I
was really always trying to find

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enough stories.
I kind of needed four stories a

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day, and I was desperately
trying to find enough stories to

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cover.
All the way back then, there

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really wasn't an awful lot of
news coming out of the industry.

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And then all of a sudden, there
was this sort of this just

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explosion of activity in the
industry, which turned it from

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being a couple of stories a day
into the type of thing that you

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get to see now.
And quite a lot of that was

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around 2019 and of course, 2020,
the pandemic.

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But yeah, you know, just an
incredible change in comparison

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to what it was right back when I
started.

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So, James, you're one of the few
people who really have this

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global pulse on podcasting.
And what is it about this space

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that grabbed your attention so
strongly enough to to build your

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career around covering it?
I've always been in the audio

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space.
I used to be a radio presenter a

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long, long, long time ago, back
when they let anybody on,

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seemingly.
So I know the power of radio.

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I know the intimacy of radio and
of audio more generally, and

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from that point of view, really
it was a natural change to move

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from live radio, which is still
very popular, still lots of

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people listen to it, but
realizing that really the future

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of radio and audio is more and
more so on demand.

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I know that we're speaking on a
live service now, but more and

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more people are consuming their
content on demand, which is

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quite a thing.
So, you know, so I saw that and

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I thought, well, actually that
that is definitely, you know,

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it's where, it's where the
future is going in terms of the

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audio space.
So it's probably something that

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I should be having a look at.
And I think particularly as you,

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as you can tell from my from my
fancy British accent, I'm not

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from the US, although I've
worked for companies in Canada

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and the US.
I'm a Brit, but I live down here

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in Australia, so I've got a
very, you know, global view of

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the industry and actually, you
know, there are fascinating

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things happening in different
parts of the world that I wanted

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to help share as well.
That makes sense.

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And yeah, I'm with you there as
far as on demand.

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And you know, we were live for a
few years before we, I

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recognized that we wanted to
extend our reach live was great

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and we were still getting new
listeners live here on

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Clubhouse.
And we're we do it live on

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YouTube as well.
So we, we people find us.

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But that on demand aspect is
really important.

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We're finding that, you know,
that we've we've built a whole

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new audience, a whole other
community just from the on

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demand listening.
So I get that completely.

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And now you've been, I know for
a while actually, you've been

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closely tracking and covering
what's called podcast podcasting

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2 point O, which sounds exciting
and admittedly a little

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mysterious for me.
And I know some of our community

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as well.
So for those of us who haven't

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caught up yet, can you give us a
quick overview of what

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podcasting 2 Point O actually is
and why you see it as such a

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positive step forward for
podcasting?

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Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you know, taking a

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little step back and a look at
the history of podcasting, you

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know, clearly we got to a
position in 1993 with the birth

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of podcasting and podcasting
getting its name from Danny J

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Gregoire, who ended up calling
us podcasters and talking about

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podcasting and everything else,
which was a fantastic thing.

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Then, of course, Apple jumped in
with both feet in 2005.

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Really.
Because they wanted more content

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on their iPods at the time, Adam
Curry, the Co inventor of

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podcasting, helped Apple with a
full list of all of the podcasts

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that you could get hold of at
the time.

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And so that was very exciting.
Lots of change because Apple

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wanted images.
There weren't images in podcasts

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before then, you know, your
little thumbnail image.

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So an Apple wanted, you know,
genres and things like that as

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well.
So lots of change in 2005 and

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then nothing happened and, and
here we are in 2020, which is

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when the idea of podcasting 2
point O and the podcast index

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started.
In 2020, there were a band of

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people, including Adam, thinking
there's really been no change in

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the fundamental features that
podcasting apps offer.

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There's been no change in what
podcasting can technically do,

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but there's been tremendous
change in terms of how media is

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consumed and, you know, and just
life in general.

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But the, there was absolutely no
change in terms of the standard

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RSS feed, the way the podcasting
works, absolutely no additional

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features in there.
Adam Curry and a developer that

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he works with called Dave Jones
came up with the idea, rather

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cheekily called it Podcasting 2
Point O, but came up with a way

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of adding additional features
into podcasting, which is what

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Podcasting 2 Point O is.
So there's a bunch of new

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features, a bunch of new ideas
in there.

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Some of the work, some of them
are you're probably using right

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now.
Some of them are interesting

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ideas that will never go
anywhere, but that's the wonder

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of trying new things.
But Podcasting 2 Point O is

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essentially there to make
podcasting better, and it makes

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podcasting better whether you're
a listener to podcasts, whether

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you're a podcaster, or whether
you're a developer.

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And that's what Podcasting 2
Point O is there for.

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Thank you.
And how is podcasting 2 point O

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accessed?
As podcasters, what How do we

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interact with it?
How do we use it?

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So what podcasting 2 point O is,
is it is it's essentially a

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bunch of new features.
So you are probably using it

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right now.
If you're using the Apple

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Podcasts app, as lots of people
do, you will notice that there

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are transcripts in the Apple
Podcast app.

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And those transcripts can get in
there two ways.

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Either you can leave it up to
Apple, which is always a bad

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idea because who knows what
Apple is transcribing, or you

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can do a transcript of your
podcast yourself through your

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through your podcast hosting
company.

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It might be buzz route, it might
be rss.com.

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It might be about a whole bunch
of these things and upload the

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transcripts along with your with
your audio.

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And when you do that, what's
actually going on behind the

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scenes is a little RSS, a little
additional tag in the RSS feed

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contains a link to your
transcripts.

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Apple sees that at the other end
and goes, oh, this person has

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done a transcript.
We don't need to bother about

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doing our own.
We'll just take his so.

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And that is the podcast
transcripts tag, which is a new

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tag and you feature in
podcasting 2 point O.

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So it's tools like that.
Another one, for example, which

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podcasters should really like,
and this is in 75,000 podcasts

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right now, is something called
the funding tag.

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What the funding tag is again,
it's a really simple additional

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piece of information in your RSS
feed that you end up setting in,

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you know, Buzz Sprouts or
blueberry or whoever you're

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using Captivate, whoever you're
using as a as a podcast hosting

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company.
But it links to maybe your

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Patreon page, maybe it links to
buy me a coffee.

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Maybe it links to your Stripe
page.

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It links to a page where your
listeners can fund your website,

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fund your podcast.
It's called a podcast funding

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tag.
So you can ask people for money

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as many podcasters do, but
actually in the podcast app, if

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you're using something like
Pocket Casts or Podcast Addict

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or many other podcast apps out
there, there is a little button

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that looks a bit like a dollar
coin and you click it and you're

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taken to that page.
And that again might be your

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Patreon, it might be your,
you'll buy me a coffee, it might

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be your, your, your PayPal.
Really simple, straightforward

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way for a listener to turn into
somebody that is funding your

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creativity.
So those are two features that

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podcasting 2.0 enables and there
are ton more of them, but you

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can see that they're additional,
additional features that we

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never had a couple of years ago.
But now we've got and are being

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used more and more and are being
supported by podcast hosts,

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supported by podcast apps, and
super useful.

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Thank you.
And is there anything like, is

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there anything else that we as
the podcast hosts should be

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thinking about, should be doing
as far as podcasting 2 point O?

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Or do we just kind of ride this
wave with our podcasting host

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platform, You know, with Buzz
Sprouts adding the correct

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features that are in line with
podcasting 2 point O?

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Do we just sit back and like I
said, ride that wave?

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Or are there some things we
should be doing on our end to

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make it work more for us and our
audience?

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Probably the first thing is to
go to.

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There's a website which is all
about podcasting 2 point O and

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it's at Podcasting 2 point org
and that's where the website is,

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Podcasting 2 point org, Very
clever.

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And there you will find a list
of all of the things that

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podcasting 2 point O does.
There are some things that loads

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of people already support like
the funding tag, like the

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transcript tag, and there are a
few other, you know, really

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obvious ones.
There are many ideas in there

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that not very many people are
supporting.

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And so if you see one of those
ideas guests, for example, being

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able to list guests properly so
that you can see them in your

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podcast app, or maybe there's
something else in there around

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the location tag, which I'm very
excited about because it's

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basically my idea.
But all of those ideas, if you

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see one that you really wish
that your podcast host

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supported, then please ask your
podcast host say that, you know,

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Oh, I've seen location tag.
It seems like a really good

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00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:20,960
idea.
When are you guys going to to

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00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,360
support it?
That will be super useful.

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00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,920
And ask the same question again
to your podcast app.

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It takes time to put some of
these things in, but it's super

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worthwhile.
Thank you, James.

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So, OK, now I think I've got a
good sense of what it is and how

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00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,480
to use it.
Is there anything coming along

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00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,520
the lines of more detailed, more
improved analytics?

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00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:49,040
Because we talk about that a lot
here, that analytics kind of

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00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,800
suck for podcasters unless
you're on YouTube, which does

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give you a bigger variety.
But as I know you are like me,

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we believe in audio first
podcasting.

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00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:04,640
Not to say that podcasting can't
be video, but we're we're audio

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00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:05,880
first.
What's that?

256
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:08,840
Don't open that one.
Yeah, exactly.

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That's a whole other
conversation, but yeah.

258
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So is there anything that you
know of that's in the works to

259
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,080
improve our analytics?
There actually is there.

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00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,360
There's a number of different
ideas going, going around, both

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00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,520
in terms of podcasting 2.0,
including in terms of in terms

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00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,080
of ideas, but also other ideas
that are kind of being done by

263
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,400
the same people that podcasting
2 point O is by the same people

264
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,720
in that group, but doesn't
actually need any new features.

265
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,680
But yeah, I mean, analytics is
always going to be a really

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difficult thing because getting
analytics while keeping them

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private is a massively important
thing for all of us.

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And you might remember that
there was an idea from NPR about

269
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,160
four or five years ago, and it
was called RAD.

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00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,320
And the idea was that your
podcast app would tell your

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00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,680
podcast host when somebody
pressed the play button.

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So when somebody paused or
skipped.

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So you can actually see whether
or not the ad was listened to

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and all of that kind of thing.
Anyway, it turned out that with

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that technology, you could also
pretty well stalk somebody from,

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from when they left their house
to we can, we can see that

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they're in a car now and all
this kind of stuff.

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And and so that bit doesn't
sound so good.

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00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,360
Having more, more granular
information sounds fantastic,

280
00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:34,240
but that sort of thing doesn't
sound so good.

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So it really comes down to what
kind of stats we want.

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And there's a good, there's a
good piece of work which a

283
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,080
developer called John Spurlock
has been working on, which I

284
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,400
think he calls it the Open
Podcast Consumption tool.

285
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,360
But basically it's seeing
whether or not you can get

286
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:55,840
information, just the
information that actually we

287
00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,720
would find really useful, which
is how many people are listening

288
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,120
to my podcast right now and also
how many people have subscribed.

289
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,520
Those are two numbers that
actually we don't know.

290
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,360
We've got podcast hosting
companies who will tell you

291
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,960
vague numbers, which are based
on IP addresses and devices,

292
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,120
which is not the same as people.
And we also have some vague

293
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,400
numbers around downloads, which
of course you don't have to

294
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,280
press the play button if you've
downloaded a podcast.

295
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,560
So we don't actually know how
many people are listening.

296
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,560
So wouldn't it be great it just
if we got a really good rock

297
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,920
solid number for how many
listeners we have?

298
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,160
And that is possible, but it
needs an awful lot of work on

299
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:44,240
the podcast apps side.
And why should a podcast app sit

300
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,800
there and do all of this hard
work when, well, they don't earn

301
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,440
any money out of it?
There's no benefit to them.

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00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,800
So it's a bit of a sticky one.
But I do hope that I do hope

303
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,960
that it'll be fixed because
better statistics is going to be

304
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:03,960
really helpful, particularly in
that conversation around YouTube

305
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,760
and Spotify video, which does
have very good stats in terms of

306
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,600
how many people are using those
particular apps.

307
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,360
It'd be great to see that big
news on more shows as well.

308
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,920
James, you kind of said the
magic word money for my next

309
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,680
question, podcasting 2 point O
and monetization, what's

310
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,160
happening in that area?
Well, so there's two things.

311
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,760
There's firstly the funding tag
which I was talking about that

312
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:36,440
that little button that looks
like a a dollar sign on Pocket

313
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,440
Casts, for example, if you were
to click there on the pocket.

314
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,320
Casts, I have seen that, yeah.
Yeah.

315
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,840
So if you click that on the the
Pod News Daily Show, which is

316
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,400
the show that I recorded about
20 minutes or so ago, then you

317
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,320
will see that takes you just
simply through to a Stripe form

318
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,920
that you can pay me some money
through.

319
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,840
That is one way of doing it.
There is another way that

320
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:05,240
podcasting 2 Point O has also
been looking at monetization.

321
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,640
It uses Bitcoin.
But it actually works really

322
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,920
rather well.
So the idea is that as you

323
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,400
listen, for every minute that
you listen, you send a tiny

324
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:22,120
amount of money to the podcast,
to the podcaster that you're

325
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:25,520
listening to.
And it's cleverer than that in

326
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,880
that if you have a show which
maybe has two hosts and an

327
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:35,680
engineer, you can actually split
it so that the money goes maybe

328
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,400
60% of the money goes to the
presenters and 40% goes to the

329
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,400
engineer, for example.
You can do some very, very

330
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,680
clever things with that.
The difficulty, of course, is as

331
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,400
soon as you say Bitcoin, people
go Bitcoin.

332
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,960
Terrifying, that's what I just.
Did, yeah.

333
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,560
And and and and.
Oh my goodness, how complicated

334
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,960
is that going to be?
And blah, blah, blah.

335
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,440
You can't do that sort of thing
with a credit card because every

336
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,080
time you use a credit card, the
1st $0.35 or something like that

337
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:10,480
is basically paid as a charge.
So you can imagine if you were,

338
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,840
if you were sharing, I don't
know if you're sharing a cent

339
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,040
every minute, then of course you
couldn't do that on a credit

340
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,080
card.
But you can do that in other

341
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,240
payment tools.
There are actually quite a lot

342
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,800
of shows which are accepting
streaming payments as they're

343
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,000
called.
The streaming payments does

344
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,720
actually work really, really
well.

345
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,600
But as I say it it, it sounds
hugely complicated and hugely

346
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,880
scary.
A really good podcast app to

347
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,960
play around with that if you
want to, is a podcast app called

348
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,760
Fountain, which will actually
give you a little bit of a

349
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,960
little bit of money to get going
if you start using that.

350
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:51,200
The beauty of that is that not
only can you pay a podcaster as

351
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,920
you're listening to their show,
you can also press the boost

352
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,520
button and send them a message.
So you can press a boost button.

353
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,840
I don't know, you might, you
might want to share with them

354
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,640
$0.50 or a dollar or the biggest
boost that I've received is

355
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,600
$125.00, which is not to be
sniffed at alongside a message.

356
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,560
Of course, getting messages in,
I mean, most people who produce

357
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,760
a podcast are producing them
alone and don't see that much

358
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,800
feedback.
Well, that's a wonderful

359
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,960
feedback loop to automatically
get money alongside messages.

360
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,160
That's super good.
But again, it comes down to

361
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,320
Bitcoin and understanding what
Bitcoin is and understanding all

362
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,160
of that kind of stuff.
So it's not for everybody, but

363
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,800
certainly making it easier that
way is if.

364
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,360
It wants to take this seriously.
They need to call their money

365
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,520
something other than something
that sounds like a snack food

366
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,600
that you get out of the bag.
Satoshi's.

367
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,320
What is this, Satoshi?
Yeah, that's right.

368
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,360
Sounds like a chip, you know.
A satoshi is a tiny amount of

369
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:01,760
Bitcoin, much like a cent is a
tiny amount of a dollar.

370
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,840
But yes, completely agree.
If you were to use and there is

371
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,840
a there's another podcast.
It's a website at the moment.

372
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,280
It'll be an app soon called true
fans, which I think you find at

373
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:17,880
true fans dot FM and again that
again uses streaming, streaming

374
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,920
payments.
And what Sam has done, the owner

375
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,000
of True Fans, is he's done a
very good job of making it a

376
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,720
little bit more simple to
understand how the streaming

377
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,600
payment works.
And basically, for all intents

378
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,600
and purposes, it'll look to you
like it's a normal American U.S.

379
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,680
dollar.
It just happens to use the

380
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,520
Bitcoin under the under the
hood.

381
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,360
But but yeah, you know, so
there's so there's a ton of this

382
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:51,560
sort of stuff going and we all,
we would all love there to be

383
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,680
other monetization options other
than just advertising, because

384
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,680
advertising isn't for everybody.
And clearly, you know,

385
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,160
podcasting 2 point O can
absolutely help with that, both

386
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,960
with the funding tag and with
and with this this streaming

387
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,120
payments as well.
Right.

388
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:12,920
You touched a little bit on
engagement when you said you can

389
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,240
send a little message with it.
But that's, that's a big thing

390
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,400
for me.
Engagement.

391
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:24,280
I yeah, I don't know why hosts
don't like just the distribution

392
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:29,080
platforms don't have it set up
to where anyone can can

393
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,800
communicate with the podcaster.
You know what I mean?

394
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,320
Everyone should be able to click
on something in their podcast

395
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:40,800
app that brings them to a place
where they can can message the

396
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,200
podcaster.
So what's going on with that

397
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,520
when it comes to podcasting 2
point O?

398
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:52,040
That has been a long, longly a
long debated thing in the

399
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,360
podcasting 2 point O groups and
things trying to get, we call

400
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:59,880
them cross app comments because
it's always better if you can

401
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,880
actually see what other people
are saying as well.

402
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,120
So actually having comments just
like you would on a YouTube

403
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,880
video.
Or maybe you you you've used the

404
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,000
good pods app, which has
comments in it or various other

405
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,200
things.
So great ways to get messages

406
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,600
back to the podcast hosts, but
also, you know, really good to

407
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,240
actually see other people who
are enjoying the same shows as

408
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,760
you are.
Cross app comments is so

409
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,080
difficult and complicated to do
it well.

410
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,760
And there have been a number of
attempts to try and get it done.

411
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,160
The current, the current work is
something called the social

412
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,920
interact tag, which basically,
you know, plums into something

413
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,800
like Twitter or Mastodon or
various or, or various other

414
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,440
things.
It's really not quite there yet,

415
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,640
but I agree.
I mean, that would be a super

416
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,680
useful thing to be able to
actually turn every podcast

417
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,640
into, you know, essentially a
chat room.

418
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,480
That would be a super useful
thing.

419
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,440
Very awesome.
OK, here's what I'd love to do

420
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:05,560
I.
Should say, well, go ahead of

421
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,840
the other one of the other
things, one of the other

422
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,400
features that I have forgotten
to mention is actually a

423
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:17,000
fantastic feature for finding
new shows and that's podcast

424
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,680
recommendations.
So I obviously I do a couple of

425
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,800
different shows.
I would like to make sure that

426
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,280
if you listen to the pod to the
pod news daily, that you also

427
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,160
listen to the pod news weekly
review and the other way round.

428
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,440
But I also have a number of
shows that I think you would

429
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,520
like if you're listening to one
of mine.

430
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,480
And So what another of the
podcasting 2.0 features.

431
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,840
It's got a silly name.
It's called Pod Roll, bit like a

432
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,520
web ring, I guess, if you're, if
you're as old as I am.

433
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,800
So you can actually with podcast
hosts like Cos Sprout, which

434
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,440
supports this, I think rss.com
does as well.

435
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,240
And there are plenty of other
podcast hosts which do you can

436
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,640
actually put in your in your
podcast feed.

437
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,520
Here are links to other shows
that I think you would really

438
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,160
like.
And those are beginning to

439
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:13,000
appear in podcast apps as well.
So again, if you're using Pocket

440
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,160
Casts, the latest version of
that has a thing called you

441
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,560
might like in there and you
might like both shows,

442
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:23,960
individual podcasts that are
recommended by the creator.

443
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,480
So podcasts that I have put in
there, but also the automatic

444
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,160
ones that might appear for every
single show as well.

445
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,080
So that's a really nice way of
being able to share other shows

446
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:44,160
that I think you will like and
hopefully help people find a

447
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,680
bunch of additional shows that
they haven't actually found yet.

448
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,200
Before we move into asking you a
little bit about your own

449
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,000
processes to create those
multiple podcasts that you put

450
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,760
out there, let's wrap on this.
What's what's exciting you the

451
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,600
most about the future of
podcasting?

452
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,160
If podcasting 2 point O, which I
was going to say if it truly

453
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,160
takes off, which it really it's
already taken off.

454
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,440
So where do you see podcasting
headed in the next few years

455
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,680
with this new framework in
place?

456
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,680
I think one of the things around
podcasting 2.0 is that it does

457
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,160
secure a lot of the future of
open podcasting.

458
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,680
Open RSS is a really important
thing.

459
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,840
That's why podcasting is so
successful as it is right now in

460
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,240
comparison to, you know, closed
platforms like Spotify and

461
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,960
YouTube.
Those are those are lovely.

462
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,040
But we know in podcasting that
actually the reason that

463
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:44,080
podcasting is such a success is
that it's open and that anyone

464
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,280
can be a podcaster, regardless
of how big or small they are.

465
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,480
Anybody can be on the same
platform as Joe Rogan or indeed

466
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,120
someone better.
So from that point of view,

467
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,560
that's a really important thing.
And that I think is why I'm very

468
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,040
excited about podcasting 2 Point
O and why I've spent the time

469
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:08,360
to, you know, to do a little bit
of work on some of the features

470
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,360
in it, because I can see there
being a real benefit for keeping

471
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,600
open podcasting alive.
So I guess you know, that that's

472
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:22,440
sort of one, one side of it.
I'm fascinated by helping people

473
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,400
find podcasts that they
otherwise wouldn't have found.

474
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,760
So that recommendation thing
that I was talking about is

475
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,120
really exciting, I think for
where the future of podcasting

476
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,240
is going.
The location tag is another

477
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,480
thing which I'm really excited
about.

478
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,400
Imagine, and this isn't a
podcast app, I'm talking about

479
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,080
Imagine.
If you're going to a website,

480
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:50,640
maybe you're planning a holiday
in Paris in France and you go to

481
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,960
a website and that website, you
can ask it for every podcast

482
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:01,480
episode about something to see
as a tourist in Paris.

483
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:07,040
And that and that website comes
back to you with a list of great

484
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,560
podcast episodes talking about
the, you know, the Notre Dame or

485
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,840
the Eiffel Tower or the Louvre
or all of the other things that

486
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,680
are in Paris, you know, so.
I prefer South of France.

487
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,440
Can we go to the South of France
and see?

488
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,720
So.
So what we've got with So what

489
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,120
we've got with being able to
actually say what a particular

490
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,520
episode is about, where a
particular episode is about,

491
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,760
that actually enables us to
uncover shows have been made

492
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,640
about those particular places in
in ways that we've just simply

493
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,360
not thought about in terms of
current podcast apps.

494
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,640
So I'm I'm super excited about,
you know, if you're doing if

495
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,480
you're doing shows, it it, it's
always struck me as being really

496
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:03,600
weird that you have to continue
doing brand new shows otherwise

497
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,760
your your episodes kind of fall
off everybody's apps.

498
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,920
Wouldn't it be brilliant to help
people find old shows that you

499
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,920
have done, shows that are still,
I mean, a show on the I was

500
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,080
going to say on the Notre Dame,
probably that doesn't

501
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,920
particularly change very much.
Obviously that's a a really good

502
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,160
example of where it does.
But a show on the Eiffel Tower

503
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,320
wouldn't wouldn't change if you
were to make that four years ago

504
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:30,880
and talk about the history of
the place.

505
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,080
You know that that is still just
as relevant now as it as it was

506
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,480
when it was first it.
It was first May.

507
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:43,480
So I think, you know, just being
able to help new listeners find

508
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,800
new shows that they were
otherwise unaware of is that is,

509
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,640
I think, a really exciting
thing.

510
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:54,040
And just to step back a little
bit wider, that's why I think we

511
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,560
should stop talking about how
many people are listening to

512
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,520
podcasts and instead start
talking about how long they're

513
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,040
listening because our next job
isn't to get more people

514
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,960
listening to podcasts.
Already over half of America

515
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,880
listens to a podcast every
single month.

516
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,400
My job now is to get people
listening twice as long as they

517
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,560
as they are right now.
And if they listen twice as

518
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,640
long, that should mean that
there's twice as much money into

519
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,960
the industry.
And that's a good thing.

520
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:31,160
So anything that can help people
find new shows, increase the

521
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,440
amount of time that they spend
with a podcast is is a fantastic

522
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,520
thing, I think.
Agreed, and I want to check in

523
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,200
with Sid.
Sid, I think I saw you flash an

524
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,800
emoji to ask a question, so is
that true or should I move on?

525
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,160
James, thanks for being here.
It's a fascinating conversation

526
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,480
so far as I've been listening to
you describe podcasting 2 point

527
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,120
O and one of the things that
this kind of pops in my brain

528
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,520
was like AI listen on Apple
Podcasts.

529
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,240
I know there's dozens of options
of where you could list, but is

530
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,920
there any conversations in this
about having a universal

531
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,640
directory of creators?
So when you're an apple and I

532
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,240
click on the creator's name or
image, it takes me to another

533
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,720
page that has that person's name
to the top, has bunch of

534
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,000
recommended shows and it shows
that person's episode.

535
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,800
But how cool would it be to be
able to click on, you know, the

536
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,480
the creator's image It go to
almost like a landing page, if

537
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:33,040
you will, about that creator,
not the show that they are made.

538
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,040
People do multiple shows, but
also any places they've been

539
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,000
guest on that favorites list
that you mentioned, like shows

540
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,080
that I would recommend.
Where would you find them?

541
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,480
And then you mentioned earlier
like a donation button there.

542
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,880
So kind of like a little web
page about the creator built

543
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,800
into the app.
I I would completely agree.

544
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,520
There is a feature which is
called guest.

545
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,440
Is it called guest or is it
called out?

546
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,520
It's called person.
It's called person.

547
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,840
And what that feature enables me
to do is it enables me to list

548
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,800
every person that is involved in
in a particular episode.

549
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,400
So a guest, a host, maybe
somebody working behind the

550
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,000
scenes, maybe somebody who's
worked on the artwork for that

551
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,840
particular episode, whatever it
whatever it might be.

552
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:22,199
And so that feature enables all
of that.

553
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,480
That feature enables you to go,
OK, I'm really enjoying Adam

554
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,920
Curry's No Agenda, but what
other shows does Adam Curry do?

555
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,040
Where's he been a guest?
How do I get in touch with him?

556
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,800
How do I learn learn more about
him and bringing all of that

557
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,199
together?
Now, it's a really good example

558
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:44,760
actually, if you give of Apple
Podcasts, because Apple Podcasts

559
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,880
kind of has that, but it has
that only for the biggest shows.

560
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,440
So the likes of you and of you
and me can't get in there.

561
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:58,960
And it's all Apple Podcasts, you
know, their own, their own data,

562
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,160
their own stuff that they do.
So it means that it only appears

563
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,160
in the Apple Podcasts app and
nowhere else.

564
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,360
Wouldn't it be great if that was
open, if that was available

565
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:10,920
everywhere?
And so.

566
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,880
Yeah, exactly.
You know that that's the sort of

567
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,480
thing that the that the podcast
person tag enables you to do.

568
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,320
Now that again is supported by a
tonne of different podcast

569
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,000
hosting companies and it's being
a little bit slower to appear in

570
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,440
some of the podcast apps,
although it does appear in some

571
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,440
of those.
And actually if you search for a

572
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:38,920
podcast in the in the pod news
website, we use the person tag

573
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,600
to actually show who the hosts
are and that sort of thing.

574
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:49,600
I think what is lovely about all
of this is that we've all had

575
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:55,760
ideas to make podcasting better
and up until Podcasting 2.0 was

576
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,760
started, there was no way of
actually getting any of those

577
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:06,520
ideas starting to be talked
about, starting to be in podcast

578
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,160
apps and everything else.
Now that there is this, and it's

579
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,640
very technical, but it's a new
namespace in RSS.

580
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,680
It's a thing that enables you to
add additional features without

581
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,480
breaking anything.
That's fantastic because it does

582
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,520
mean that we can go, you know
what, this is a great idea.

583
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,440
You know Sid's, Sid's had this
great idea about people.

584
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,560
How can we link to people within
the app?

585
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,840
And then you you'll find a ton
of people think about it and

586
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,320
work out a way of doing it.
So yeah, it's one of the reasons

587
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,720
why I'm so I'm so excited by it.
Thank you, James.

588
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:43,280
Thank you, Sid for that question
and a good chance here to remind

589
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,000
anybody listening live right
now.

590
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,040
If you have a question for
James, by all means come on up

591
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,680
and ask or put it in the chat if
you prefer.

592
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,920
But either way, feel free to ask
your questions as well.

593
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,960
This is an interview for you
after all, and we actually asked

594
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,440
James here, not originally
anyway, to talk about

595
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,640
podcasting. 2 point O That was
just a bonus for us because we

596
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,280
were intrigued.
TR saw an article that you wrote

597
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,720
at Pod News about the different
tools that you're using, the

598
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:19,800
process that you go through to
create your podcast episodes and

599
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:25,000
your list, your tools list.
They're they're, I, I saw that

600
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,840
you even code some of your own
tools.

601
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,280
You create the tools for
yourself as opposed to maybe

602
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,960
using third party tools.
So why go through the trouble of

603
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,960
building your own systems rather
than just using that existing

604
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,920
software or services that are
out there?

605
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,520
That is a great question that
you ask.

606
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,440
I wish I had a a better answer
other than my usual one, which

607
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,200
is, well, you know, because I'm
ticky enough and I might as well

608
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,160
end up writing that.
But yeah, I mean, right at the

609
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,840
beginning of when I started the
POD news newsletter, I thought,

610
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,400
I need this thing to be as easy
as possible for me to do.

611
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:06,240
All about the workflow, all
about making sure that I could

612
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:10,360
do a full day's work for someone
and then come home in the

613
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,520
evening and I could get a
newsletter out within an hour.

614
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,600
Yeah.
And that included making the

615
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,360
podcast version and a bunch of
other things in there as well.

616
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,360
And so I thought, right,
anything that I can simplify,

617
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,400
anything that I can put some
code round will be a good idea

618
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,320
here.
And so that's really why quite a

619
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,120
lot of the tools that I use are
mine and I've written them, uh,

620
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,600
because I'm, I'm lucky enough to
know how to code, but also lucky

621
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,760
enough to know how I can make
life easier for myself in the

622
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,040
way that I work so that I have
more time for the creativity and

623
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,160
less time doing things that just
aren't creative and need doing.

624
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,120
You know, layouts of emails and
stuff.

625
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,960
I don't worry about that because
I've got code that sits there

626
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,360
and does all of the layout for
me, transcripts and things

627
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,760
automatic uploading the audio to
the website all automatic

628
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,680
because I've written all of
these tools that end up doing

629
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,040
that and it does come down to
the workflow.

630
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,600
Getting that workflow right,
making sure that I can actually

631
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:19,000
do what is actually quite a
difficult job every single you

632
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,600
know every single day, even when
I'm on holiday.

633
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,240
So I've written a bunch of
things I've linked to in the

634
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:26,760
chat.
I've linked to a bunch of the

635
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,360
tools that I ended up writing,
but.

636
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:33,360
Dr. Before you take one, I just
want to ask James so I, I can

637
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,840
appreciate doing a podcast five
days a week for as long as you

638
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:39,640
have.
I certainly respect that.

639
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,480
I I know what it's like to have
to do a daily podcast.

640
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,360
And have you ever missed a day
there?

641
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,280
Have been a few days where I
have been a few days where I've

642
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,840
used AI as my voice instead of
me.

643
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:58,120
And that was mostly because the
last time I did it, I was in an

644
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,160
aeroplane.
And Australia it turns out is a

645
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:02,600
long way away from everywhere
else.

646
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,680
And and I was in an aeroplane
and I thought I can't possibly

647
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,000
sit in economy class and get my
microphone out and start

648
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,840
recording a microphone.
I do have Internet access.

649
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,400
Yes, I do have Internet access.
So therefore I will just I will

650
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,680
just use the Wonder Craft tool
which I have access to.

651
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:27,480
Clone my own voice and then and
then that can do this show.

652
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,680
So I've done I've done that a
few times.

653
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:35,240
I haven't missed a day, I don't
think since 2018.

654
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,560
That's pretty amazing.
So and the the missing a day is

655
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,280
a little bit more complicated
because obviously we all have

656
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,280
different days off.
So I guess you guys had

657
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,240
Independence Day, which was a
Brit I don't really talk about,

658
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:55,280
but you had you had Independence
Day last week.

659
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,120
And of course we didn't here in
Australia, I don't get holidays

660
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,920
off.
And so that sort of adds a

661
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:02,880
little bit of, of additional,
you know, hard work.

662
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,640
And also I realized very early
on when I wrote the, the tool

663
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,960
for the classified ads on, on
the website, I didn't build

664
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,840
holidays into that.
So I suddenly thought, Oh no,

665
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,760
people have actually bought
Christmas Day.

666
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,360
I still have to publish on
Christmas Day.

667
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,920
That's no good.
So.

668
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,000
Yeah, You know what actually
caught my eye when reading that

669
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:31,600
article was I read that you self
host and that you actually don't

670
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,040
rely on Buzz Sprout or Lipson or
Captivate or any of those other

671
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,760
distribution platforms that we
all rely on.

672
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:44,880
So talk to me about that.
Where What made you want to self

673
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,120
host?
Did you just look out there and

674
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,480
say all of these are crap, I'm
going to do my own?

675
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,360
Or did you say I can do a better
job?

676
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,400
Or what is the advantage of self
hosting?

677
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,600
Well, one of the advantages is,
you know, I was geeky enough to

678
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,160
know how to do it and I thought,
well, I might as well.

679
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,720
I might as well do that.
And that has actually led to a

680
00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:12,360
bunch of stories about because I
was able to give myself

681
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,240
unlimited e-mail addresses and
so therefore be able to track

682
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:19,280
where people were getting my
e-mail addresses from and who

683
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,400
was scraping RSS feeds and all
of that kind of information.

684
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,240
So you know, it, it gives me
stories apart from anything

685
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,160
else.
But the other sort of side of it

686
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:33,920
is firstly that again, it comes
down to workflow and stuff.

687
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:38,480
I use Buzz Sprouts for the Pod
News Weekly review for the long

688
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,920
podcasts that we do every single
week, partially because they

689
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,680
sponsor it.
Thank you Buzz Sprouts.

690
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:50,160
But I wouldn't want to use them
for the Pod News Daily for two

691
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,000
reasons.
Firstly, because I don't want to

692
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,720
sit in front of a screen
uploading an audio file manually

693
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:58,280
through a web browser because
that's not fun.

694
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:05,520
Secondly, I also want to be able
to be rude about the podcast

695
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:11,080
host that I am with and write a
honest story about them.

696
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,080
So, you know, they have.
Yeah.

697
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,440
So there have been times, you
know, so it's a journalistic

698
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:17,880
thing.
There have been times when I

699
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:23,240
have, you know, covered some
quite negative stories about Lib

700
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:28,960
Syn, about I Heart and Spreaker
and, and about and about a

701
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,320
number of these other podcast
hosts.

702
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:36,120
And you can't sit there and
think, oh, I hope they don't

703
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,520
take me off their website at the
same time.

704
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,680
You know what I mean?
So you know, so that was the

705
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,680
other real reason why I ended
up, I ended up doing that.

706
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:52,360
But that then allows me to learn
about the tech side of it

707
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,320
anyway, and of course allows me
to play around with some of the

708
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:02,880
new podcasting 2.0 features.
It allows me to write, you know,

709
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:08,680
stories about how difficult it
is to host your own podcast or,

710
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,600
you know, a bunch of this, a
bunch of this stuff that I

711
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,760
otherwise couldn't have done if
I wasn't actually able to look

712
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,400
into the, you know, into the
into the tech.

713
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,600
So, yeah.
So I thought, I thought that was

714
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,680
an important, that was an
important thing.

715
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,400
Well, James, you've segwayed
brilliantly into my next

716
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,880
question is, is there any
trade-offs that you've

717
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,400
experienced in terms of like
podcast directories, indexing or

718
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,920
reach?
What do you do for analytics?

719
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,120
Yeah, so analytics and there is
a free service out there called

720
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,920
OP3.
It's actually a service that I

721
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:51,480
help pay for OP3 dot dev is the
website address and that is a

722
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:56,160
brilliant analytics tool and
heartily recommended for

723
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,320
everyone.
Prior to using that, I I've of

724
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:05,320
course wrote my own because of
course I would, but it ended up

725
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,480
it ended up being easier.
Although I can still see my own

726
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,920
analytics, it ended up being
easier to use OP3.

727
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,320
So I think the difficulty
there've been a few

728
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,720
difficulties. 1 difficulty is
something went I think a little

729
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:23,480
bit wrong with Google a couple
of months ago.

730
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,720
And instead of getting a couple
of 1000 downloads to my show, I

731
00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:30,920
was getting somewhere in the
region of half a million a day,

732
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,720
which sounds great, but
unfortunately isn't so great if

733
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:38,680
you're paying for the bandwidth
because that then get that then

734
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:44,200
makes it a very expensive thing.
So I had to, you know, that that

735
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:48,080
was an expensive month or two
while I was trying to work out

736
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,360
what Google was doing and why
Google was behaving the way that

737
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,800
it was.
And that's still, you know,

738
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,880
really a story which is ongoing,
I guess.

739
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,960
So, you know, so that's been a
downside.

740
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,560
And obviously, you know,
occasionally you mess things up

741
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,440
and, you know, your podcast host
is unlikely to mess these sorts

742
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,720
of things up because that's
their job.

743
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,880
You know, my job is really to
write a newsletter.

744
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,160
And so occasionally you, you do
end up messing things up.

745
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,320
And that's a bit of a mistake.
But certainly the flexibility it

746
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,000
gives me, the opportunities it
gives me in terms of trying,

747
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:29,000
trying new things, trying weird
and wonderful ways of encoding

748
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,200
audio and stuff like that, you
know, is, is has been really

749
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,320
interesting.
So do you recommend, James, that

750
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,960
podcasters consider creating
their own tools or have their

751
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,880
own tools created for them?
In other words, how does a

752
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,000
podcaster know it's time to do
that?

753
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,480
Or if maybe should they ever do
it?

754
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:48,960
Maybe it's not a thing you
recommend?

755
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:49,920
What?
What are your thoughts?

756
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,520
I would definitely not recommend
it for hosting your own show

757
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,880
because hosting shows gets
expensive real quick.

758
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,040
Podcast hosting companies have
very good bandwidth deals, but

759
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,240
that's not something that the
rest of us can get hold of.

760
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,440
In terms of writing your own
tools for other things,

761
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,880
absolutely.
I would go for that wherever you

762
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:16,120
can see what you can do with
some of the AI tools out there.

763
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,960
I don't use AI, but AI tools can
be very helpful.

764
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:24,280
For example, you know, just
going to an AI tool and saying

765
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,840
I'm going to interview this guy
in a couple of hours, give me

766
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,200
some questions that I should be
asking him.

767
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,560
At least that is a starting
point for coming up with some

768
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,520
ideas of your own to get the AI
tool to go out and do a little

769
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:43,080
bit of research first for you to
then please double check you

770
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,000
know those sorts of tools,
whether it's using AI, whether

771
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,880
it's coding your own stuff.
For example, one of the pieces

772
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,200
of code that I have built sits
there every single day and

773
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,640
checks the IABS website to find
out whether or not any new

774
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,360
podcast companies have appeared
with IAB certification.

775
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,200
Deeply dull, but it helps me
every single day with just

776
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,640
spotting a story that that no
one else has.

777
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,000
So, you know, again, that's a
useful thing.

778
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,400
So yeah, but learn, learn how to
code is definitely a good thing.

779
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,240
And if for some reason those
that are listening don't feel

780
00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:21,320
like coding, don't want to learn
coding, and don't want to

781
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,080
complicate maybe their
workflows.

782
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,320
Based on your experiences,
what's your best advice for

783
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:30,280
simplifying podcast production,
regardless of technical

784
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,680
abilities?
Well, I think again it comes

785
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,920
down to the workflow.
The reason why the Pod News

786
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,400
newsletter comes out at 7:00 AM
Eastern during the summer and

787
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,000
6:00 AM Eastern during the
winter is because for me, it

788
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,760
comes out at 9:00 in the
evening.

789
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,080
And that is a sensible time
where if I've been working for

790
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,600
somebody else during the day,
which I occasionally still do,

791
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,960
then I can still make sure that
the newsletter goes out at the

792
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,040
right time because I still have
the right amount of time.

793
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:07,880
So a lot of avoiding burnout is
making sure that you can

794
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:12,960
simplify your workflow as as as
much as possible understand.

795
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:18,800
So there's another example.
There's a section of the of the

796
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,160
newsletter which is called
podcast news.

797
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:27,160
And if you look at that section,
you'll see there's a beautiful

798
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,960
little thumbnail of the podcast.
And there, and there's a nice

799
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:37,440
link next to the podcast linking
you to linking you to various

800
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,080
information about that
particular show.

801
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,800
Now, if I was doing that
manually, having to go and find

802
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:50,560
a podcasts thumbnail and then
resize it and then put it in

803
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,080
that particular place and then,
you know, and then lay out the

804
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,120
text next to it, I would go, I
would go mad.

805
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,760
And so I've written a piece of
code which just sits there and

806
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:05,600
goes, oh, if this is the podcast
news section, then look for

807
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,520
where I mention a podcast and
then go off and find the

808
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:14,080
thumbnail for that myself and do
the layout myself for that

809
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,520
rather than leaving that to a,
to a human being.

810
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,480
We're all creative people and
doing non creative things seems

811
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:26,280
a bit of a waste of our time.
So, yeah, so that those are the,

812
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:31,680
those are the other sorts of
things that I want to try and

813
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,280
make as easy, you know, as easy
as possible or even things like

814
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,560
on on most computers now you can
get it so that if you type in a,

815
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,800
you know, an exclamation mark
and then and then PN and then

816
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,000
another exclamation mark, it
will go, oh, you've typed in,

817
00:50:51,240 --> 00:50:54,480
you've typed in a short code.
I will get rid of that and I

818
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,840
will put this piece of text in
there instead.

819
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:02,400
And so if ever any of you have
got a story mentioned in pod

820
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,960
news newsletter, that's exactly
how I reply to you.

821
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,120
I reply with exclamation mark,
PN exclamation mark, which my

822
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:15,560
e-mail system goes, oh, you want
to say this story is in today's

823
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,440
newsletter?
Here's here's how to get it.

824
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,360
Here's how to promote us, here's
how to become an advertiser if

825
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,000
you want to become an
advertiser, blah, blah, blah.

826
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,040
And all of that information is
just automatically thrown into

827
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,520
the e-mail rather than me typing
that in every single time.

828
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,400
You know, super, super simple
things there.

829
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,200
But they can really save time
and effort.

830
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,760
So yeah, there are lots of, lots
of easy ways of doing it.

831
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:43,040
Sounds like it.
And James, I want to take a

832
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,440
second to thank you, by the way,
for being a partner of the

833
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,120
Empowered Podcasting Conference,
which was born from this

834
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:53,280
community asking for some kind
of get together and somehow it

835
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,680
blossomed into a whole
conference and pod news, being a

836
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,080
partner to help support what
we're doing.

837
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,880
We are really grateful and
appreciate your help.

838
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,760
And you've always been so kind
to the podcasting morning chat

839
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,280
since you kind of discovered
what we were doing a couple of

840
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,320
months ago.
So thank you first and foremost

841
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:12,800
and.
No, it's a great pleasure.

842
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,560
And also, thank you for being
here.

843
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,880
Now, we certainly have plugged
Pod News a lot today, but if

844
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,880
there's anything you want to
share with the audience before

845
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,960
we let you go, I'd love to love
to hear.

846
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,600
Wow, I think we've done enough
about the Pod news newsletter.

847
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,440
The only other thing that I
would probably mention is if you

848
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:35,040
like chatting to people about
all this sort of stuff, then I

849
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,360
would recommend the podcast.
The podcast index is social

850
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,800
media network because they've
because they've got one.

851
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,800
Podcast index is the same people
that do podcasting 2.0 by the

852
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,840
way.
You can find that at podcast

853
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:53,720
index dot social.
That's podcast index dot social.

854
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,400
You just have to you have to ask
someone.

855
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,440
You'll probably be asking Adam
Curry himself, please, can I

856
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:06,360
have an account?
And that is a really good way of

857
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:11,800
firstly, it'll get you onto the
Mastodon social media, you know,

858
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,400
network anyway.
But it's a really good way of

859
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,600
actually of, of just seeing
people chatting about all of

860
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,760
this stuff, seeing what new
ideas there are, you know, out

861
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,600
there.
And yeah, so and it's entirely

862
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,320
free podcast index dot social.
Awesome.

863
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,160
James, thank you so much for all
of this information.

864
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,680
It's been a plethora of
information and yeah.

865
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,440
There's been a lot of it.
Yes, yeah, and and much needed,

866
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,520
as I said at the top of the show
because we here haven't really

867
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,240
taken enough time to educate
ourselves on 2 point O and it's

868
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:47,600
really cool to hear in other
podcasters processes and yours

869
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,320
is certainly unique or if it's
not unique, it's certainly rare

870
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,280
the way that you do it.
So thank you for sharing

871
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,840
everything with us, James.
Well, thank you so much for

872
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,640
asking and yeah, and it's been
great.

873
00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:59,840
I am now going to go to bed.
Yeah, go to bed.

874
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:01,960
It's 10:00 there your time.
And.

875
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:05,960
Thanks.
Coincidentally, tomorrow,

876
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,840
Wednesday, 7:00 AM Eastern, we
are back and we are doing our

877
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:14,080
news and comment edition of the
Podcasting morning chat.

878
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,640
And yes, we get a lot of our
information over at Pod News

879
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,040
among other sources.
But Pod News is definitely one

880
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:25,360
of our go TOS for sure and we
appreciate what James does over

881
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,960
there.
So until tomorrow, make it a

882
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,360
great day everybody take care.