Ep 185: [Workshop Replay] How To Choose The Right Community Model For Your Business

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Welcome to Tiny Marketing Podcast. I'm Serena Off Block. This show is made for solo consultants who want to get booked out without burning out. If you've ever thought, I just want that to feel easier, you're not alone. Around here, we focus on simple, sustainable growth that actually fits into your life so growth feels doable instead of overwhelming. Hey, just a heads up. This is a recording from a live stream training by Brie Lever on the four types of communities you can choose from to support your business. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Hi everyone. My name is Brie Lever, and I'm a community strategist and the founder at Ember, where we help coaches, consultants, and creators build online paid communities, which is a specific type, which we'll talk about today. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Okay, I'm going to add your presentation and I will let you take it. I'll remove myself.

What Community Really Means

SPEAKER_00 1:31

All right. Here we go. So today we're going to talk about the four types of communities. If you've caught my podcast episode with Sarah, then you have a little teaser of this. And I'm excited to do a much deeper dive today. This is one of my, it's it's my favorite talk to give. Don't tell the other talks. But um I love it when this talk can be a little bit more conversational. So as you come in, add your name to the chat so we know that you're here. And um, Sarah and I will be having some of the discussion, but get your fingers ready to type because what makes this talk really valuable is observing for yourself what communities you have gravitated to both in the past and today, and noticing how that has changed. It will give you some insights into just how the community industry has changed, but it will land a lot. Um, it will it will impact you a lot more when you think about it through the lens of your own experience. So get your fingers ready to type. A little bit more about me. I'm I mentioned I'm the community strategist and founder at Ember. We've been doing this since 2020. I'm a huge water person, entrepreneur, and mom to be. I live here on Hawaii Island, and um, so hence the big water person. There might be birds, bird drama happening in the background of the call, which we will make do with. And a little bit about where we're headed today. So we're gonna start by defining community. We're gonna move into the four types of communities, some of the myths. We're not gonna get to how to test your community concept today. I have that in um kind of a full, full masterclass version of this talk, but we will talk about where to get support. All right, let's dive right in. I want to start by defining community, and I have my own definition, but it's less interesting to me than what folks here on the call think community is. And Sarah, I have to pick on you because you're here with me. Do you have a do you have like a working definition of community that you'd be willing to share with the class?

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Oh my goodness. I would say a group of people who come together and um usually they they have some sort of challenge or goal that they're all going towards. That's what I usually think about.

The Two Axes Of Community

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Yeah, perfect. So my my definition is really close to that. I change it every like six months or so. I I define it as people who have identified as members of a group that gathers for connection, education, and a common purpose. People will often also put um shared interests or values alignment as part of the definition for a community. What's what's really critical about this definition and the word that I want to zero in on is identity. So what differentiates a community from an audience, um, and there's a few things, and we'll talk about them, um, is is the members' identity with the group. Once they have identified as a member and you've you've kind of secured a member on an identity level, there's a lot more that you can do with them. There's a lot more ways that you can activate them, that you can um create transformation and impact rather than kind of the consumer or audience member posture. It's not to say that audiences aren't necessary and helpful and plenty of transformation to be had in an audience and as an audience member, but community kind of takes it to the next level. Speaking of which, let's differentiate what it's not. So I really, I really draw a quite firm boundary between community and audience. And not all community builders do that, but I found for um creating and designing an impactful space, it helps to have clear boundaries there. Um, community is not your following, it's not an email list. Communities can often start, often do start from these places and get sourced from these places. Um, but I like to draw a distinction. Uh, it's not a QA forum, it's not a webinar series. You might start to see and feel the seeds and the beginnings of a communal experience in these places. Um, so I don't want to get too dogmatic about it, but um I do like to again draw those firm boundaries around what a community is so that we can get really clear on that identity. And there's a there's a moment of commitment when someone comes into a community that doesn't really happen in these other places. All right. Let's move on to the good stuff. So this is why you're here. We're gonna talk about the four types of communities, and I want you, if you're watching this, I want you to bring to mind a community that you are in. This might be a community that you are running, or if you don't have a community right now, it might be one that um you participate in. It might be a tiny marketing club, for example. So bring to mind a community that you're in, and I want you to think about this next matrix in the context of the community that came to your mind. All right. First layer of this matrix is very simple: free versus paid. And I'm what I'm gonna say next is sounds very, very simple, but I promise you it has come from a a decade of working in this space. And it is a it's a hard-earned simplicity that came out of a lot of complexity. So here it is. Free communities work best for product-based companies. Paid communities work best for service-based businesses. Free, product-based, paid, service-based. There is I that will save you a world of confusion for you and your customers alike in discerning what type of community to build for your business. By and large, yeah. Oh, Sarah has a question. You have a question? Tell me.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

I do have a question. Is product based because like it would be a user group? Is that why product-based should be free and then service-based paid?

Agora Communities For Loyal Customers

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, it will it will become even more clear with the next layer. But essentially, when you have a physical product and a paid community, it can work for mature companies, but in the beginning, the intention and purpose of the community is to move people and nurture people towards your paid product. And so the community is just better situated either at the very top of your funnel where you're nurturing customers to learn more about the product, or the very bottom of your funnel where you're activating your like super fan loyal customers. And those two tend to be in the free spaces. Okay. Yeah, great question. All right. The next layer is every community has a combination of education and connection. In education-centric communities, the value comes from the curriculum. Connection-centric communities, on the other hand, the value comes from the connections between your members. It comes from the container. It really comes from more of the design of the environment. It doesn't mean education isn't happening because education is a byproduct of connection. But what I mean by education is it's a it's usually a guided, intentional learning journey. We are going from point A to point B. These are the three steps we will be taking to get there, and we're going to do it as a group. Beginners usually need education. Mature members or customers or clients usually need connection. So this is a like a cheat sheet to where you fall on this matrix is asking yourself, who do you serve and where are they at in their journey towards whatever outcome or transformation we're hoping that they get? Are they just starting out? They don't know what they don't know, and they really need that structure of an education-centric environment. Or have they been doing this a while and they they know the rules of the game, they've been exercising them. They just need they need a place to practice and they need a place to rub shoulders with other people who are doing it too. So that that's like a really again, it sounds overly simplified, but I promise you it has come from years of hard-earned complexity watching people struggle with with this matrix and how to design their communities. All right. So this free connection centric, these are Agora communities. So where the connections between your members supports the product or the business. So what these look like, these are communities for loyal customers, user groups. Sarah, you mentioned this is a great spot for those. Um fan or super user communities, ambassador communities can sit here too. The pros of these communities are they're they're very easy to join. There's low friction, they're free, but they work well when the product they are supporting is not competitive in any way with the community. So there has to be a symbiosis there. Some of the challenges that come with this community are they're very low commitment. So it can be um it can be difficult to get the momentum of engagement and higher engagement rates. It's this is this is the type of community that is the most difficult to get them to adopt a new technology. So most that's part of why these communities have traditionally lived in social networks. And by social network, I define that my very my very fancy polished definition is a place where everybody kind of already is. But it's really it's it's a gathering place, it's a social media, our social networks. Um, but you'll find these communities tend to live in places like Facebook groups or Slack, is even I would categorize in this this category now. Platforms where most of their members are already interacting daily. This group is also the most difficult to prove ROI. So if you encounter an Agora community for especially for like a brand, um, it's typically because the the C-level leadership intrinsically believes in community because there's not much ROI that you're gonna be able to, and any ROI you can actually like source for this type of community, you usually spent like three times as much energy trying to like prove it that it's working. So usually there's kind of this inerrant belief that like this is valuable to our brand, but it's really difficult to prove and to track and to measure, just to be totally honest. So these communities lived in Facebook groups for a long time. Like I dare you to think of a Facebook group that isn't an Agora community, but now they'll live in WhatsApp groups, Slack, or other social networks. Um, I'm curious, Sarah, what is is are there any Agora communities that are coming to mind that you've seen or that you've loved or hated or somewhere in between?

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Yeah, I was in one that was called Fractionals United, and they just moved to Paid. And so I really loved it for when it was free, but not because it was free. It was just structured different. And then when they moved it to paid, it changed completely. So that was the first one that popped into my head that I actually used. And then the other one is like in my writing world, the forums on like the back end of actually it goes along with what you were saying, the back end of like tech that I use. They usually have free community forums in there. And those I really love. Those are a great way to connect with other writers.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yes, yes, exactly. You nailed it. Can I ask what some of the changes were for Factionals United, like the the changes to their structure?

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Yeah, the thing I loved about it before is we would have these monthly meetups where everybody would connect and we'd go around the room and talk about like what was going on. And she or they cut that piece out. And that was the only reason I was in it. Yeah, like to have that connection point.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah, that's really common for connection-centric communities. Um, even like in the entrepreneurial community, people will say that like I'm just in it for like the bi-monthly connection calls. Like, that's literally like why I'm here. That's the only thing that I participate in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Yes, the events are the reason that I show up. So I can meet other people that are dealing with what I'm dealing with. Yes.

Nurturing Communities That Teach Users

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Yep, 100%. Some uh some examples that I've seen as well. Lego Ideas is like one of my favorite examples of the Negora community. And they did something really unique in the space and that they didn't build in a social network. So, like there, the Lego Ideas community belongs, like it's like a custom built site that Lego built, and people can submit their Lego CAD designs to the community to be voted on. And when um, so they'll do like a Taylor Swift Eras Tour like Lego set challenge, and everybody submits their CAD design for what they want the Lego set for the Taylor Swift Eras Tour to look like. And um, if yours gets selected, it will like go into production. But they've basically outsourced like a massive part of their of their brilliant, yeah. It's so smart, and people like like geek out about it, like people love it. There's like tens of thousands of members and votes happening, so that's a really fun one. And then um, Slumberkins is like a great example of like they're a kid's like toy product, but they have like a raving um like loyalty Facebook group where they gather their customers and it's like hyperactive, and people like lose their minds over Slumberkins product in that group. So it's a good example. Okay. Next up, we've got nurturing communities. This is where communal learning supports the product or the business. These look like SaaS customer communities, to be honest. This is like the predominant um like way that I see nurturing communities leveraged for business. So the pros are these are easy to join, they're free. Um, they're most successful when they live under customer success within an organization. Um, but not every company has a customer success team. So they kind of, I have a whole other like talk and article about like where your community should live in an organization, particularly for these free ones. Um, but I've generally found that customer success uh holds them best. They're easier to track outcomes. So I want to differentiate between ROI and like outcomes and impact, because ROI is return on investment to the business. What's the impact of the community for the business? But then the outcomes or impact of the community. I'm talking more about like what actually was the transformation for the member. So these can be difficult to track ROI because there's not really necessarily a bottom line, but it is much easier to track the impact for the customer. We can see, like, if we're if the whole purpose of the community is to take people from point A to point C, we can track and see how many people got to point C. How effective was this community in helping people get there? Some of the challenges that come with this community, it's difficult to generate engagement between members. So because it's kind of easier to get people in the door because you're saying, here's the thing you're gonna learn. Here's the really specific outcome. But people don't always join with this posture of like, I'm gonna give feedback, like really like with a lot of curiosity and generosity to other members, and I want to connect with other members. So getting people baking in that connection ingredient takes a little bit of sneaky design sometimes in these communities because people don't always come properly postured. So that's really important in your onboarding. Um, they tend to have higher churn rates and lower engagement rates, which again, it just comes with the territory. Um, these communities live in course platforms, enterprise community platforms, um, like Kajabi. A lot of um yeah, a lot of course course tools will kind of hold these communities accidentally until until people realize there's tools that are a little bit more comprehensive for the community features that they need. I'm curious if any nurturing communities come to mind for you, Sarah.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Yeah, I would say autocrit, the one I was talking about before, was probably more in this education-free version because a lot of people are just coming there with questions. But yeah, they have to work hard to get that engagement happening. Like if someone's not commenting on someone's question, there's they'll they'll spotlight it. Like somebody answer this question for them.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yes, yes, yep, that's exactly it. Yeah, these are these are like kind of a secret sweet spot for consultants, especially because if you can find, if you're a consultant who offers a service and you can find the product that people are using that um complements your service, hanging out in these free education-centric communities is kind of a hack. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Okay, I want to second that because anytime I'm working, I have a lot of financial consultants in my world, and they usually specialize in some type of software. I'm like, there's user groups out there, there's communities that are specifically for that software.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Get in there, get in there and show what show. Well, yeah, there's a few ways you can approach it. I was gonna say show off what you know, but I'm like, actually, don't do that. But do do get in very, very generously and yeah, do it from a place of curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

One of my clients, she has built her entire business off of that, and she's making bank. She now the those software companies just go directly to her and they're like, Can you consult for them? Because they're having a hard time with onboarding.

Transformative Communities For Clear Outcomes

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yes. I mean, this is a big part of our strategy at Ember. So we partner, we help people with their community strategy and getting their communities designed. We partner with community platforms that we know and love and have used for years and years. And we send them customers and they send us clients, and it's a very symbiotic relationship. So this can be, and it's it usually starts if you're like, well, how do I like? I don't know the CEO of these companies. Go into the community and start being helpful and it will get noticed. Um, a couple communities that I've seen um that are just like just phenomenal in their design. They probably they're so big and mature that they they probably touch elements of all four of these communities, but I would like properly place them in this category. So the HubSpot community, so teaching people how to do outbound marketing and the Etsy community for sellers teaches people how to run Etsy businesses successfully on their platform. All right, let's move into I love them all for different reasons. It's like it's like your four children that you can't quite choose between. Is that feel sometimes? But I really do have a sweet spot for transformative communities. So transformative communities is where communal learning is the product or the business. So these look like group programs, cohort-based communities can tend to be here. You can also have evergreen membership transformative communities. Like you can, like the structure and the cadence of like um either it being time-bound or always open is not exclusive to any one of these types of communities. But I have noticed that because of the nature of a transformative community, again, we're going from point A to point B, they tend to have more of a time constraint around them, which can really work to their advantage. Okay, so some of the strengths of these communities. Remember, education, these tend to be for beginners. So they are in a lot of ways easier to market because there's a very clear outcome, very clear transformation, and a very clear value proposition, especially when the community is centered around um improving or um transforming your business outcomes. That's that becomes an easier investment. Um, like more like lifestyle and hobbyist communities can tend can struggle to monetize because there's not as like distinct and um visceral of a value proposition, but they still they still can do great. I had a client who we built a um, they they make they teach women how to make um custom sewing, custom bras, and it was called bra sewing bee. And I mean, it was like they had like 600 members. It was wild. Um, these communities are the most willing to adopt new technology. So because it's paid, they have more skin in the game, and because it's education-centric, it's kind of like saying, like, okay, we're going on the group road trip from point A to point B. We will be getting in this bus. Even if you don't like this bus, if you want to get to point B, you will get on the bus. So they're just like, okay, fine. Even if they even if they hate the bus, they're like, okay, fine, we have to get on the bus, whatever, we'll do, we'll deal with it. So this is really where all-in-one community platforms, which I kind of specialize in, this is the group that they targeted because this is the group that's most willing to adopt that new technology and overcome any friction that comes with it. These are also the easiest to calculate the ROI and they're paid. So there's like a bottom line that comes with the community and the impact. Now, challenges with these communities. The value of the community tends to be centered on the teacher, the educator, the creator, and the curriculum. So if you want to start moving towards creating an offer that is not completely dependent on you and your delivery, this type of community doesn't necessarily get you there. It definitely paves the way for you to start introducing connection as a value for your members, but it also tends to keep people a little bit dependent on you to like kind of feed them the content and then and the information. Onboarding for members is so important, no matter what community you have. But I found in this community specifically, posturing them to see the value in the connection elements of the community is really critical. These communities tend to live in, like I mentioned, the all-in-one community platforms. And we're seeing like a lot of uh course creators who I would say like they didn't start with a community, but they created a course, an educational program. And what we're seeing is they've realized, oh, this is like way less effective when people are learning in individual silos and more effective when they're in a group. These people are trying, course creators are trying to move into transformative communities. Um, you'll see you've seen like we've seen a big migration there. So, some examples of platforms. Um, we like to work with um circle and heartbeat, um, mighty networks, even our clients use school and swarm. There's a bunch out there. You can quiz me on them all. We have I have a community platform comparison uh video playlist for anybody who wants to get really in the weeds about um nerdy community platform tech.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

I got in the weeds with that when I was figuring out where to have mine. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

I think is that part of how we got connected? Or am I?

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Yeah, no, that is exactly how we got connected. Because I you sent me an article when I was trying to figure out where to put my community and I started binging your content.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Oh my gosh, I love it. We've that's even that's been a while now. So it's even leveled up since oh, that's amazing. Um, Sarah, do any do any transformative communities come to mind for you?

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Mine. Yes, I have that right there. There we go. Yes, definitely education based.

Nexus Communities Built On Relationships

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Yeah. Yep. I put tiny marketing here as a prime example. Um, it is an education mecca for all things tiny marketing, and I'm a huge fan. Um a few others that I've experienced as well. Seth Godin's Alt MBA program. Seth Godin's known as like the marketing guy, but I really consider him the original community guy too. Um, and one of the ways that this was manifested was through the Alt MBA um program. It's like three months. Truly one of the most transformative experiences of my life, completely online with complete strangers. Like what they designed and built there was incredible. Um, so Akimbo is like the organization that ran Alt MBA. And I actually have an episode with the CEO of Akimbo. Her name's Marie Shott. And um, the way she thinks about community is fascinating. So that's uh, I think it's like episode two of Deer Bree for anybody who wants a deeper dive on that one. And um, Jay Klaus's The Lab is also another one that I haven't been a part of, but I've heard really great things. Okay. Um, let's move into Nexus communities. So this is where the connections between your members is the product or the business. So Nexus means a connection or a series of connections linking two or more things. So what this looks like is a lot of memberships will typically fall into this Nexus communities. Again, like just because it's a membership doesn't mean it's connection-centric. You can have like education-centric memberships, but they they tend to fall into this category. Networking groups, associations. These the the strengths of this of the Nexus communities are they are the stickiest. So people are here for each other. As the owner or like founder of one of these communities, they're incredibly valuable because all of the value is being created. Not all of the value, but you're you're essentially designing an environment where the value of the experience comes from your members and their interactions. So they're incredibly valuable. It's also easy to calculate the value for the business because they're paid. So some of the challenges with these communities, it's difficult to track the outcomes and results for members. It's also um, it's common for members to get in and have unarticulated expectations for what they want out of the community, but they don't even necessarily know like why they're there or what like transformation or outcome they want because it's they're kind of slippery. Like it just feels kind of like sit the value comes in kind of a serendipitous way. And so I've found that community builders who have this type of community really struggle to guide their members to see the transformation that happens because they think the transformation is the they think connection is the outcome. But connection is not an outcome. Connection connection is a vehicle to some other outcome. So for these communities, we really focus on articulating, even though there's not that linear education journey, what is the transformation and what is the impact of the community? And we really have to prompt your members to think about it and reflect on it because they can um really easily just like kind of check out if they don't feel like they're getting the value, but they were never prompted to actually like thoughtfully consider what the value is and why they're joining.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

If that makes sense, yeah, that makes sense. So though I'm in a lot of those paid connection type of communities, and I'm real fast to turn. Like if the onboarding is confusing, like no, if I didn't find the right connections, like like true relationships with people, no, I'm out. Yes, I find that those, and this might just be me and my own shortcomings, those would be the hardest for me to be able to run because it's really hard to figure out, yeah, one, what outcome do they want, truly? But two, how do you make sure that the connections keep connecting that people are engaging?

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Yes, 100%. And this one feels the most mysterious to people. Like it's kind of like we all know what a good one feels like, but articulating how we got there is the next impossible, other than people being like, I don't know, I just have great members. Yeah. But there are very specific and intentional design choices that led to those outcomes. And that's part of what that's part of what I help people understand.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Good thing you understand. I have been a part of a lot of them. And the one like the ones that I have loved the most, people have told me you have to join this one. Yes. So it has always come to me through referral. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Yeah. And it's why they're so strong. It's kind of like um transformative communities versus Nexus communities. It's kind of like transformative communities are like skiing, like it's easier to get like up and running, but then it's a lot harder to like perfect. Yeah. And then Nexus communities are kind of like snowboarding, where it's like a lot harder to like learn and like get the momentum up front. But once you do, it's like a lot easier to like um kind of get really, really good at it. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah. So there has like at least how I'm interpreting that is there has to be a good on-ramp that gets people to where they need to be to be able to get in there and see the true value. We have a question too from Jennifer. Are Nexus communities focused on mentorship programs, for example?

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah, they can be. A mentorship program is a great example of a Nexus community. Yeah, that's a great one. Um, moving through some of these other challenges, these are these communities are less willing to adopt new technology unless they know the group is worth it. And once the group is worth it, they are usually trying to get off of the social network. It's really funny. It's kind of this like paradox that happens for these communities where they to get the momentum, they often will have to start somewhere where their members are already existing. But then once the group becomes really valuable, people are like, oh, this platform's like too noisy. I'm only here for this group. And I wish this group, like I would follow this group anywhere. But it like, it's it's this like really weird, mushy thing to figure out the timing of it. But yeah, these communities, once they once they hit their stride, they're like, how do we get off of this social network? Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

I there's a couple that I'm part of, like I'm part of a coaching group, and their community is on Facebook. I'm like, I don't even have a Facebook account. What? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Exactly. Yes. And this is where like I think a lot of um, I think Facebook is writing Nexus communities and like some Agora communities that are just, I mean, just in general, the connection-centric communities are that live on Facebook. I think Facebook is getting so much more from those communities than those communities are getting from Facebook. But that's just my humble opinion. Um, so these ones, they tend to um, I mentioned they tend to live where the members are already interacting, but then they want to migrate. So you'll find them in Slack, maybe WhatsApp groups. Um, more and more they are starting to build an all-in-one community platforms as the general public becomes habituated to these platforms and more familiar with them. Um, you mentioned a few Nexus communities that you've been a part of, Sarah. Any others that come to mind to highlight?

Which Type Fits You Best

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Old Girls Club is my favorite one. That one's you're in that one too. There it is. There it is. Yes. Um, I've been in Prosper Network. Um Entrepreneista is another one. Honestly, there's so many. I could probably like go through this shit's creek list that I have.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Yeah, find even more. No, there's so many. Um then there's like a bunch, uh, led by community is one, and then um one that I did an interview with was called Porch Canada, and they're a community for immigrant entrepreneurs in Canada. Uh, they're hosted on Slack.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

And Port Fest is the thing that came into my mind.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Oh, oh, what's that?

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Um, it is concerts that happen in neighborhoods, so the stages are people's porches.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Oh, yes, we had something like that in Portland too. Okay. Great example. All right. So these are the four Agora communities, nurturing, transformative, and Nexus. And what I want, if you're if you're tuning in with us, I want you to observe which ones are you drawn to today and why. And has that changed over the last five or 10 years? For me, this has changed, but I don't want to, I don't want to like ruin the reflection for folks. Sarah, do you have an intuition on? I mean, you you kind of mentioned it, but anything that's coming up for you?

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Uh yeah, I was actually just typing it to put it in the chat, but I am all over the Nexus communities because it gets me in the right rooms. Yes. And if there is something that I'm wanting to learn, I prefer the transformative communities. Like I want to pay to be able to have like the community aspect of it. So I'm learning with people, but like a location where and an outcome that I'm going to be getting. So I prefer paid over free for those reasons, but Nexus has become more and more important as I'm growing my business.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yes. And would you say that the person who you serve in your business tends to be someone who's like more mature in their business evolution?

SPEAKER_02 41:07

I would say no. I would say that they are probably in like the one and a half to three year range where they're just getting their their footing in in building out their business.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yeah. Okay. Okay. That's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Yeah, that's a transformative. So it would make sense.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

But it's also it makes sense that you're in the Nexus community looking to bring them into your transformative community because going into another transformative community to bring them into your transformative community is a little too. Well, it's just a little like transformative communities aren't necessarily a great, they can be you, they can lead to great connections and even business, but um it's just a little bit more of an awkward transition, I would say.

Why Paid Communities Are Rising

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Yeah. I like them when we're all trying to get to the same outcome. Like and we're learning from each other and sharing our wins and how we actually got those wins when we're all trying to get the same one.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Exactly. And people don't necessarily want to be sold on other solutions when they're on that learning journey. They're like, I'm focused on I'm focused on this learning journey. Let me just do this first.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

We've got these blinders on.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Yes, exactly. But if you can also find and collaborate with other transformative communities that are serving your same client but in a different transformation journey, that can also be a really good sweet spot for partnership and collaboration.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Yes. I've been thinking about that so much. Like, let me bring in other transformative communities and create like a co-author with them.

Educator Or Connector As A Founder

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Yes. Yes, 100%. Yep. Beautiful. Excuse me. So something I've given this talk for like a couple years now, and I love seeing how um people's responses have evolved and noticing that transform that that difference. One of the things that I've noticed by and large is that people have moved on this matrix. There's been a big migration from free to paid. And I contribute this to a couple of things. One, it's kind of like where we were with apps on your phone when the like the first 10 years of the iPhone. You remember, like, if if you came across like a paid app, it was kind of like laughable and insulting, like, oh sweet summer child, who do you think you are making me pay for an app? And then somehow along the way, that user behavior changed. And now I dare you to go into your phone and look at like how many subscriptions you've forgotten about that you signed up for. And it's because we realized free doesn't also necessarily mean better. It usually means clunkier, buggier. I might have to like sift through ads or sift through a lot of information that I don't need to find what I do need. And so little by little over time, we became more willing to accept a paid experience, knowing that it was going to be what we needed. And communities are really in the same evolution. And I've noticed it as we've like, you're like, okay, I could find a free Facebook group version of this where I have to wade through lots of information and things that don't really pertain to me, or I can pay even just a small amount to know that I'm in the right, um, the right space with the right people learning the right information. So just an interesting thing to observe. Maybe that's true for you, maybe it's not. I also like kind of swing back to nurturing communities every like six months or so. So they each have their own place in um, they each have their own value. It just depends on what you need and what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

Yeah, and nurturing communities makes sense for you because of what you do. Your people are going to be there. Yes. Yes, 100%. 100%.

Roadmap And Couch To Connection

SPEAKER_00 45:13

And it's it's interesting to observe too, like often if you're looking to build a community, observing the community that you are drawn to as a member can be one of the indicators of like noticing what you're drawn to and why, and how that might relate to your own community if you're looking to. build one. I also encourage people to consider. So this this is like one of three categories that we look for alignment in to know that building a community is the right, this is the right time for you to build a community. So this identifying your type aligns um the your community with your business model. So once we've got this alignment, the next thing is does building a community align with you and the type of work that you want to do? And the best question to start with is are you an educator or are you a connector? Do you love teaching people, guiding them, kind of being a little bit of being the educator can be a little bit of a savior, savior complex too. So if that's you, just like be honest about it. And then some people like they're like I don't want that. I don't want to like I don't want to have to walk guide people through this. I just want to create the space where they go and play. So that's kind of that's the next area of alignment. Then there's a third one but we'll save that for a podcast episode later. Make sure you follow Dear Brie on YouTube. Do we get a question?

SPEAKER_02 46:42

She was talking about how bad Facebook groups are no question just agreeing with you that Facebook groups are throwing here I'll pull it back up.

Myth One The 50 50 Trap

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Just the Facebook teardown. Yeah we've all it's come and gone you know we don't need to just yeah uh okay oh yeah oh my gosh no it's the same one I just tried to done and it doubled a lot of lot of hatred for Facebook coming in no kidding all right um so okay I want to talk through a couple myths here but really quick before I do that I do have a free um community launch and transition roadmap so if you're considering launching a community this will this will give you the basis for the five milestones that you need to consider and each of the questions and stepping stones along the way for each of those milestones. So if you want to get this make sure you can sign up for the new you can get it when you sign up for the newsletter. And I'll include the link there to our form and something we have coming up soon in um that you'll see coming to the newsletter is we have a really fun program called Couch to Connection. And I joke that it's like Couch to 5K but less sweaty and way more fun because I hate running. But it's basically designed to like get you off your butt and into connection if community has been something that you've been considering but just not sure how to take those steps. So you can join join the list to get the updates on when Couch to Connection is coming and we're doing it in partnership with Heartbeat, the community platform. So they're going to be hosting it with us and it's gonna be a blast so keep an eye out.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

So it's like a boot camp.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Yeah yep three day boot camp three days of workshops um yeah it's gonna be a blast awesome okay let's move do we have some time to move into two myths yep okay we have 10 minutes I'm looking for a newsletter so I can put it in the chat. Oh great thank you all right so this is the very first the first myth is my community will be successful with an even distribution of education and connection. I have kind of a mean trick that I play my clients when I'm like education to connection let's think about it like a ratio um we know what percentage of your community is going to be education centric and then what percentage is going to be connection centric. And they'll um the ones who are really trying to find the right answer will be like 5050 I'm like that's the only wrong answer. So why it's not actually the wrong answer but it it is if you're starting your community because what happens when you when you say well Brie, I want it all I want all of the strengths and all of the pros of all of these communities when you put yourself on this line here not only are you also signing up for all of the challenges what ends up happening is you will build not just one but two communities because again education tends to serve your beginners and connection tends to serve your more mature members. So now we have two different goals we have two different people coming into your community who need two different things and even though there's some overlap like in the Venn diagram of these folks there's there's some overlap you will find your focus and your prioritization for your community completely at war and divided it's also a lot more difficult to articulate the value proposition of your community and for your members to understand if it's for them. So if you're just starting out there's no reason your community can't evolve and mature into holding both of these categories but in the beginning pick the one that feels the most aligned with you and with your business um that's like the number one number one thing that I see um did this did you come up against this at all Sarah or like have you seen this or felt this?

SPEAKER_02 51:01

Absolutely um oh tell me more asking yeah um so it's education first in my community but I kept thinking that I needed to have that connection piece of it and I think that I've talked to you about this before my it was originally called Tiny Marketing Club and I was like the word club makes it seem like this is a connection community.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

So I changed it to booked out in six so it was more clear that this is an education community and now I only focus on sharing our wins instead of having constant yeah connection between people it is really really hard I don't even know if it's possible to do both I I have not found it yeah yeah it I mean it it takes a lot it really does um and and some people will say like I want to bring people in in education and then I want them to like progress to connection and it's not impossible to do what is required for that type of setup is an audience it like an audience building mechanism like you you need a very big audience to bring in enough people where there are is like a critical mass for both of those offers. And what I've found actually happens more often than not is we'll start with education, we'll move people into connection but you don't have enough members consistently flowing into your community that the people who you brought into connection or brought in through education they kind of like you'll bring in like a a spurt of them like they'll there'll be like a group of them they progress together to connection but your your flow and your funnel kind of like lags a little bit and then and then you'll have a new group come in or like they'll trickle in and now you have people like like you've got like one person here one person here one person here and then a group here and it sucks because then you stop marketing your community because you're like this feels like a cluster.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Yeah it's disconnected I was part of a community like exactly like what you were talking about where it was education first. We all came for the same outcome but they had this community element and there was clicks.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

It ended up being clicks based off of when you came in yes yes totally totally which like there's some solidarity there that can work but really like if you're gonna do the education to connection flow you got to have like your audience building and your and your um marketing funnels on lock like they have to be real tight. So I I'm so guilty of this um you could like you could track the evolution of the Ember community through the through the cycles and seasons of this matrix. But that's part of like uh that's what I love about community is like the nature of it is to change and to evolve and your members needs change and evolve. And sometimes you decide they really the community purpose is here for this very specific time and place in someone's journey. And then other times you have the capacity and capability to expand your container to hold more of what they need. But it it really depends.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Yeah I want to highlight what you said just there because I have been part of experiences where community was only for a short lived period and it was intentional where like a for example you were just talking about your boot camp where that's going on or um a summit. So there's a community going on with the summit but it's only like five days long where you're going through the same thing at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

Mm-hmm that's one of the so I shared about the Alt MBA and I've when I talked to Marie like one of the things that I can't remember if we talked about the episode or if it was kind of offline but she was like people it was like the number one thing people always asked us was like please give us a place where we can stay connected and like after this experience because the experience itself was so transformative and people were like like craving more of that and they absolutely refused to do that. And it was part of their strategy where they were like what makes this so powerful is that it ends. And that's a necessary tension that we are willing to hold. They like they refused to create a connection centric space where people could just kind of live and be and they kept it so tight with that educational program and like refused to budge.

Myth Two Free To Paid Pipeline

SPEAKER_02 56:06

And I I have so much respect for that because I think it actually made it like all the more powerful people were like well frick if I want that experience again I have to just pay to do the program again that makes so much sense too because you like if something goes on forever you lose your interest if you only have access to it for a short period of time you're in you're invested.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

Exactly exactly so you start to see like the play between these two things and it can be really tempting to be like well I want both I want like a really impactful transformative experience and then I want the recurring revenue of the connection experience. Yeah you kind of have to pick one and pick one and hold yourself there until you feel like you've really nailed it because that's the other like big mistake I see is people will start in one and when they can't when they don't feel like they've got it they'll they'll just like quickly add another and they'll be like maybe we got it wrong. Maybe we need to do more and I'm like do not do more it will only shoot you in the foot. Okay real quick I want to move to the next myth and this is the free to paid pipeline myth. So I don't have to have time to bust the freemium myth in its entirety today but I do have a follow-up dear Bree podcast episode about this that I will link to called Top Mistakes to avoid in setting up an all-in-one community platform but actually starts with this freemium exploration. So um this myth is basically that a free community is an effective pipeline to your paid community this does not work for a lot of reasons that I go into depth on in the episode. And then I also have a real life example in another episode with Ali Ball she talks about she had like a paid um a paid community program and she launched a free Facebook group to lead to the paid group and you can hear exactly how that played out because it's so reflective of what actually happens here.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

But the TLDR is it doesn't work pick one and stick with it until you nail it I've been part of communities that were free and transition to paid and they did always end up like disasters.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

It's really hard actually I have another episode from Evan Hamilton's like the director of community at HubSpot and he gives a really great synopsis of like if you are trying to transition so this is like this is when it's like you have both a free and a paid and you're like the free one will lead to the paid one that doesn't work. A lot of times you will have free communities that after a period of time are like oh crap how do we monetize this and then they need they try to transition to paid and that's a different um can also is also rife with challenges but this episode with Evan Hamilton um he gives like an overview of like what your options are and how to facilitate that transition um more gracefully.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

And just an FYI this QR code that's at the top is your newsletter.

Final Takeaways And Next Step

SPEAKER_00 59:13

Oh amazing thank you that's fantastic all right um I'm open for questions I know we've got like another minute here but um thank you guys for having me this was so I I get so nerdy about it I'm already sweating a little bit so this was fun for me I'm just gonna pop some of the comments on while we wrap up oh okay leaning try I think I'm trying to do 5050 but I lean higher towards connection and that's what people in my group find as the best part of the career club.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Oh I'd be so curious to hear how how this talk impacted you thinking about the 5050 and if there were any takeaways you had from that yeah Nick if you're still here feel free to let us know um let's see we also got this yeah that's so good yeah that transition from Agora nurturing to transformative communities you're you're not alone in that a lot of folks feel that way yeah I think that the consultants that are specializing in a specific thing where they have a software they have they need to take advantage of these so you don't need to own it just be in them. Yes yep absolutely okay we are at time so we should wrap up um thank you so much for joining me today this was amazing if this episode made things feel a little more doable I'd love to help you take the next step with the booked out blueprint. It's a practical low pressure session to clarify your offers, your marketing and what actually moves the needle. You can book yours through the link in the show notes. You don't have to figure it out alone