497. What This Podcast Review Reveals About Storytelling

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Good morning podcasting Morning
Chat.

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Today is Thursday, April 16th,
2026, and today we're evaluating

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A listener's podcast salvage,
diving into narrative tension,

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immersion, storytelling craft to
uncover what hooks listeners and

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what could elevate the
experience.

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So if you're listening live on
Clubhouse, hit the share button,

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top right hand side of the
screen and share it.

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However, Clubhouse lets you.
And if you're catching this via

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podcast, YouTube, etcetera,
please share this with a fellow

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podcaster.
And now give us about 30

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seconds.
We'll get things rolling.

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Thanks for being here.
Podcasting Morning Chat is

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powered by Ironic Media, helping
podcasters launch, Polish and

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grow great shows, and by content
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creators build real business
behind their content.

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Good morning again podcasting
morning chat.

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Thank you so much for being
here.

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I am your host Mark Ronic and
currently on stage with me my Co

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hosts Dr. Faye, Ralphie Steps,
Sid Meadows, Matt Bliss, Nick

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Naalbach and Dominic Howard and
also Tide AKA Nikki has joined

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us from the audience.
Good morning to all of you and a

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shout out to those of you who
have already joined us here in

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Clubhouse, Dave, Tim, Austin,
Leaping, Leaping Bear and Chris.

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Chris, good to see you back as
well.

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Let me clear my throat.
Thank you.

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Sorry about that.
We were just talking about

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hydration and I guess I need to
be better hydrated this morning.

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So before we dive into today's
discussion evaluation of

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salvage, which I think a lot of
us are excited to talk about, I

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want to remind you about Ralph's
duo.

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We're giving away his Rd. caster
duo, lightly used.

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He's had it for about 9 months.
He's upgraded, so it's time for

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him to get rid of that one.
He's also offering a free

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monetization strategy session
designed to help you make

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smarter moves with your show.
And as I always say, the Duo is

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a really great piece of gear,
good for beginners or advanced

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podcasters, has multiple audio
sources.

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It is small and compact, easy
for on the go recording.

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And before I go any further,
Ralph, will you share briefly

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about the strategy session?
Absolutely.

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I will work with you one-on-one
to try to help you build a

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content monetization strategy
for your particular show,

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whatever works best for you.
So we'll sit down, we'll do a

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Zoom call, and we'll walk
through what you want to do with

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your show, and I'll give you
some tidbits of how to make that

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happen.
Thank you, Ralph.

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And you can get your entries,
multiple entries, multiple ways

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to throw your hat in the ring by
going to

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podcastingmorningchat.com/duo.
Check that out.

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I mean, we have lots of entries
in there and would love to see

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you in there as well.
All right, let's see here.

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All right, Yeah, I think we this
is a good place to dive in.

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So as I said, we are digging
into the show Salvage.

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And this is a narrative podcast
and it's about really all

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things, all stories, adventures,
etcetera from the sea.

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That's I guess the best way to
put it.

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And when I heard that we were
going to be doing this episode,

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I was curious how if it would
really grab my attention because

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quite frankly, I mean, yeah,
sure.

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I think the Moby Dick story,
which is what this episode is

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about.
Well, it's about the real life

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story that inspired Moby Dick.
You know, I'm sure.

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I think I'm curious about the
Moby Dick story and the fact

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that there there's a true story
behind it.

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But still, I just didn't know if
this was going to grab my

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attention or not.
And boy, spoiler alert was I

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surprised.
And yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed

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listening to this episode and
there's a lot to get into.

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I'm going to play some clips
here in a second to get you, our

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listener, on the same page as
us.

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So we have several clips to play
and we're going to bring you

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into this experience with us.
And the whole idea here is,

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yeah, we want to help this
particular podcaster, but we

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believe that breaking down any
podcast can help our podcasting

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audience a great deal.
There's a lot to learn from

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podcast, whether they are really
well done, really poorly done,

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or somewhere in the middle.
I think we can find learning

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experiences for everyone.
So DRI saw you wanted to chime

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in first.
Go for it.

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Yeah.
Well, you know, I've been so

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wrapped up in my work and my
clients, which are all brand

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based podcasts, basically
entrepreneurial podcasts, that I

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very rarely reach out of my zone
and listen to something that is

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not entrepreneurial.
And this really had me.

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I mean, I loved it.
And I was telling people earlier

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that, you know, I'm the type of
person that follows all those

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TikTok, those short little
TikTok things with the bass

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singer singing yo-yo.
And the ship is swaying from

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side to side with the waves
crashing.

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So that's the first thing I
thought of when I started

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listening to this, but it
really, it made me reach out of

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my comfort zone and I really
loved it.

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OK, there you go.
And let's talk briefly about the

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host.
I know that, Matt, you dug in a

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little bit and learned some
things about the host that I

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didn't know 'cause we were
having a sidebar conversation.

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Curious if you would share a
little bit about what you know

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about the host, because I think
it adds to the credibility of

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the storytelling.
So, Matt, what do you know about

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our host?
And please forgive me, I totally

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have forgotten his name.
Richard Wesson.

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That's in Wesson, yeah.
Depends.

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On where you're from and how you
say it, I guess because I

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actually, there's precious
little that I actually know

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about him.
I did the exploration because I

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think it's a, it's probably a
good bit of feedback for him

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that maybe inserting a bit of
himself in the show is OK.

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But Richard, as far as I could
tell, is a Northern Irish,

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probably Belfast based from the
accent as far as I can tell.

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But he works for His Majesty's
Coast Guard, from all I can see

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could be decorated in that
respect.

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The earliest bit of reporting I
could find about him was in 2020

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when he he received something
specific award for it.

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But I think the part of the
reason that I wanted to do this

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is that it speaks to his
experience for what he's talking

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about as subject matter.
And someone might listen to this

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as a great story.
But giving that story authority

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can really lend to the
credibility of the host.

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And I think it does hear someone
who's a decorated Coast Guard

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for one of the most turbulent
seas you can imagine.

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And the fact that he works in
Northern Ireland and Belfast was

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where the Titanic was made and
had famous shipyards that sent

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ships across the world.
I think it's a really good

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history to talk to for the
podcast.

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It's a when we start off with
podcasts, it's easy for us to

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kind of fall back into the
shadows and let the content do

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the work.
But I think Richard should feel

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a bit more confident about
perhaps inserting some of that

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history credibility.
Like, I thought he was a

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nautical historian.
I thought that would suit really

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well.
But I think his experience in

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ocean salvage and rescue would
really, you know, add some stuff

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to this show.
Yeah, and thank you for adding

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some stuff to this show because
it's like I said, I didn't do

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the homework, and I'm glad that
you did and got a little bit

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more of a background about this
host.

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Yeah.
And so, yeah, we're going to

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evaluate this one particular
episode.

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Again, it's called Salvage.
And like I said, it is a

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narrative storytelling podcast
that focuses on, to be more

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specific, historic ocean events,
survival stories, real people,

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fatal decisions.
So we're going to learn the way

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that podcasters should listen,
not just for whether the story

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is interesting, but for how the
show builds tension, how the

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host carries the story, how the
episode is structured and where

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the experience could become even
stronger.

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So I think what we will do,
Yeah, let's do this.

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I'm going to go ahead and play
the first clip for you.

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This is the intro.
And I think we're what I'd like

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you to do is listen to the
opening and just notice what

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happens in this first minute,
minute and a half.

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And how does it make you feel
what it what is, what does it

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promise?
How effectively does it bring

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you into the story?
So let's play this clip and then

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we'll talk about it.
A huge wheel rammed their ship

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not once, but twice.
It was 1820 in the Pacific Ocean

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in the middle of nowhere, and
the wheel ship was the Essex.

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And this is a story that's
almost unbelievable and becomes

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quite traumatic to say the
least.

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But it's all true.
The 20 men on board could not

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believe what had happened.
They'd heard of whales striking

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ships before.
It did happen occasionally.

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Usually the whale would ram once
and disappear back into the

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deep.
Not this one.

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This creature, longer than a
bus, struck them twice in what

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appeared to be a deliberate
attack.

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But why annoy?
The men were stranded in their

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open wooden boats with only a
few rations, with open ocean in

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every direction for thousands of
miles.

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The question is, would they
survive?

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Well, that would depend on some
very, very difficult decisions

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that you're going to hear about
today.

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I'm Richard Wasson and this is
Salvage.

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All right, So what do we think?
I'm going to go to Dominic 1st.

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And by the way, Dominic Lawson,
I know I said Howard and I think

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that's because Dominic, I don't
know if you knew this, but I

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knew somebody growing up named
Dominic Howard and I think it

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just totally slipped out for the
first time that way.

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So please forgive me for saying
Howard, I do know your last

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name.
You are a good friend of mine.

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So with that, Dominic, curious
as our narrative storyteller,

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podcaster extraordinaire, what
stood out to you right away

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hearing that intro?
Good morning.

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Good morning everybody.
Hope everybody is well.

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I think what stood out to me
initially was the tone was set

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with the sound of the ocean
waves, right?

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It said.
So I mean, obviously we know

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we're listening to in a maritime
podcast, but it really puts us

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in the mindset that we're on the
ocean.

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And then he says, you know, a
ram struck not once, but twice,

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right?
It's like, oh, crap.

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OK, so we're, we're diving right
into the, the, the tension, the

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problematic parts of this story,
right?

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And so I'm like, OK, wow, why,
why did the ram strike twice?

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Why does it, you know, why this
particular case, right?

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And then there's also the
foreshadowing of, you know,

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what's going to happen later on
and stuff like that.

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And then I think for me, two
things.

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One, the fact that he says this
is absolutely true, like this

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happened, right?
It's not mythical.

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It's not whatever.
Like this actually happened.

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And I think that's important
because I think a lot of times

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when we're listening as
consumers, we're curious, like,

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you know, this didn't happen.
You're making this up, right?

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And I think that adds to the
intrigue.

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And lastly, for me, and I'll
just be dumb American here, the

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Irish accent does it for me.
It's something about the Irish

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accent and being in this
maritime journey that we're

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about to go on.
It makes sense.

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I'm not saying that, you know,
an American accent wouldn't do

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it, but it's something.
It amplifies it for me.

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Like, OK, we're I don't know if
it gives it a level

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authenticity.
I don't know if it gives us a

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level of like, you know, just
add to the storyteller, but it

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does something for me.
And so that's what I noticed off

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the bat.
Love that.

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Yeah, and I'm with you.
Like, and I think others have

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shared this as well, that the
accent really added to it.

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And I know it's funny because
we've had other podcasts that

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we've evaluated that have had
had accents and some people,

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some of our American podcasters
here have had trouble sometimes

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following along.
And it seems like in this case,

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the accent does work really
well.

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And I'm with you, Dominic.
Like, I think, sure, the right

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kind of American voice would
still work really well here.

226
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:17,520
Like, you know, a James Earl
Jones type voice would be pretty

227
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,480
powerful listening to a story
like this, right?

228
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,320
But yeah, there I agree.
There's something that really

229
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,840
draws you into the story that
much more with the accent.

230
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,440
Let's see.
Nick, did you want to chime in?

231
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,000
Yeah.
Good morning.

232
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,080
Good morning.
Yeah, good morning, everybody.

233
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:39,840
I, the intro definitely pulled
me in like Dominic's point.

234
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:45,240
The the tension that is brought
into the show almost immediately

235
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,560
kind of sucks you into it.
And I think the sound effects

236
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:53,320
and then the music, I thought
the music at the back end of

237
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:59,000
that little intro there like fit
perfectly with the feeling that

238
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,960
he's giving you while telling
the story.

239
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,800
And honestly, I almost want more
music and more sound.

240
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,440
I listened to it this morning
and I didn't really catch it as

241
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,560
you replayed it again.
Now when he comes in and he's

242
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,200
kind of telling the story, like
it does build tension.

243
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,320
And I feel like some like music
building along with him as he's

244
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,960
going leading into like that
final like musical intro, I

245
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,280
think would just amplify the
tension that he's trying to

246
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,320
create with it.
But I like I'm he.

247
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,280
I was sucked in after that first
little intro.

248
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,600
Yeah, I think we'll get into
that.

249
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,080
At least I intend to get into
that today about some of the

250
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,360
sound design choices and I'm
glad Dominic is here as well

251
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,240
because I think he can add on to
it.

252
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,520
It's great to have a multi award
winner on stage with us,

253
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,400
especially that does the
narrative podcasting thing.

254
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,800
I think this is going to add so
much more value.

255
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,760
So I'm so happy Dominic Lawson
is here this morning.

256
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,920
No, really quickly and I can
hold my thoughts, but I actually

257
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,920
actually, you know, I slightly
disagree with Nick on this one.

258
00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,560
OK, but and the reason I said as
far as the more music, because I

259
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,720
think sometimes no sound design
is the best sound design, right?

260
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:22,440
And I think in this instance,
the very minimal music as to the

261
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,600
eeriness, right?
It it actually adds to the

262
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,760
intensity of like, oh, crap,
just tell me what happens.

263
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,440
It's like, because you know how
sometimes you're, you know, the

264
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,640
worst thing is not knowing that
you just want to get it over

265
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,120
with.
But I think sometimes the less

266
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,040
less is more.
Which I know sounds cliche, but

267
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,280
I actually slightly disagree
with Nick on this one.

268
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,120
Yeah, I mean, look, I wasn't
finding myself wanting more

269
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,920
sound design in this moment.
I think later in the episode

270
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,080
there are moments where I feel
like it could be helpful.

271
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,640
But yeah, I'm with you, Dominic.
It's not that I necessarily

272
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,720
disagree with Nick, It's just
that from my first time

273
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,600
listening experience, I didn't
feel like the need for that.

274
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,480
And by the way, I see that Matt
was nodding his head as Dominic

275
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,520
was sharing, and so was Ralph
for that matter.

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00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,920
Oh, and by the way, if you're
not going to

277
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,680
podcastingmorningchat.com/join
us to check out our video, I

278
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,680
highly encourage that you do
because Ralph has an amusing

279
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:24,760
shirt on a very appropriate for
our money guy, our tax guy.

280
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,400
So yeah, go check that out if
you haven't already.

281
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,080
And DRI know you wanted to chime
in as well.

282
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:32,400
Go for it.
Sorry, I'm in.

283
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,440
The Kitchen.
But I just wanted to get this in

284
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:39,000
when we were talking about the
accents and how it lended itself

285
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,200
very well to the storytelling.
I also wanted to put in there

286
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,280
that he's a hell of a
storyteller.

287
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,360
He reads really well, you know?
So I just wanted to get that in.

288
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,720
Yeah, and we'll play some more
clips demonstrating some of that

289
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,040
storytelling here in a moment.
Matt, did you want to chime in?

290
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,840
Yeah.
Just very quickly to point out

291
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,920
that this one we're reviewing
today is the first episode that

292
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:10,280
he put out, and I think a lot of
kudos needs to go his way for

293
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:11,560
all the things he's gotten
right.

294
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,880
Like we don't know how many
episodes he's practiced, how

295
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,640
many hours he put into this
particular episode to get it

296
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,200
just right.
But like, you can stumble into

297
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,800
the magic that happens that
Dominic was talking about that

298
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:29,080
we all agreed with here on the
video that the silence adds a

299
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,920
bit more.
And I reflect that on in books

300
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,440
these days too.
Like today with the shortest

301
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,120
tension span thing, it's always
important to move the next

302
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:39,800
thing.
Watch a movie trailer from like

303
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,680
1996 and compare it to a movie
trailer today and you'll be

304
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,720
incredibly surprised.
Same with books that were

305
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,320
written back then.
There was way more room for the

306
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,800
imagination to fill the gaps.
And I think you should stick

307
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,720
with it to a degree.
But I agree with you too, Mark,

308
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,920
that there's some sound design
choices you can make further on

309
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,920
as the story gets told that can
add a little bit more.

310
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:00,840
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you, Matt.

311
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,600
We will play some more clips in
a moment.

312
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,160
I know several people still want
to chime in.

313
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:10,040
I'm going to skip my Co hosts
for a minute because one of our

314
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,680
community members is on stage
wanting to chime in.

315
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,080
Tide, did you have something for
us?

316
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,880
It's going to make the smallest
of observations.

317
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:22,320
So when he said whether they
were going to survive depended

318
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,560
on some very, very difficult
decisions that you are going to

319
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,960
hear today.
The only thing I would just

320
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,520
eliminate is that phrase that
you are going to hear today and

321
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,440
just end it with whether they
survive is going to depend on

322
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,240
some very, very difficult
decisions.

323
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,360
OK.
Yeah, that's an interesting

324
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:44,240
observation.
I have to sit on that for a

325
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,680
minute because yeah, does it.
I guess the point, and you can

326
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,800
correct me if I'm wrong, is that
you feel like maybe he's pulling

327
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,360
us out of the story by
addressing us and instead of.

328
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,160
Yeah, in a way I did feel that
way just for like a split

329
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,480
second.
And I said, oh, I wish he didn't

330
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,520
do that because I felt like the
sentence would have had more

331
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,360
impact.
And as a write a lot as a writer

332
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,320
and all that kind of stuff, I'm
always looking at.

333
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,640
The way I can phrase the
sentence for maximum impact, and

334
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,280
most of the time that has to do
with eliminating words as

335
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,720
opposed to adding them.
Yeah, interesting.

336
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,360
I have some notes that we'll get
into later and I think several

337
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:28,760
other people have talked about
that when they provided their

338
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:32,960
breakdown of this episode,
talked about some moments where

339
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,160
we might have been pulled out of
the story momentarily.

340
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,120
So I want to we will get back
into that as well.

341
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:43,160
Thank you for bringing that up.
Ralph, you wanted to add

342
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,520
something?
Yeah, I just wanted to say when

343
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,200
I first started listening to
this, I had to go back and check

344
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,200
was this really this guy's first
episode?

345
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,400
Because honestly, dude, I
thought this was a professional

346
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,920
podcast from the moment it
started playing.

347
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,120
When I went back and figured out
that this guy, this was his

348
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:01,960
first podcast.
Well, at least with this

349
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,720
particular show, I don't know
what he's done before, but I was

350
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:09,040
like, I don't have a lot to
offer here in ways of helping

351
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,760
this guy.
I got some ideas on having a

352
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,080
website 'cause it doesn't like
he has one and we could talk

353
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,080
about that later on.
But man, from the standpoint of

354
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,840
just knocking it out of the park
at the front end, home run,

355
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,080
dude, home run.
Yeah, Yeah.

356
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,520
I am really impressed, like you
said.

357
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,080
I mean, maybe he's had other
podcasts that we don't know

358
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,920
about, but as as far as we know,
this is his first podcast and

359
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,920
with what, maybe 2 episodes, I
am totally thoroughly impressed.

360
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,280
Yeah.
OK, Nick, I think you had

361
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,840
something you wanted to add.
I'm just going to comment what

362
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,400
others are saying to push back
on my comments just kind of a

363
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,680
little where my mind is going
with that because I do agree

364
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,560
like what everyone is saying,
like silence is extremely

365
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,920
powerful.
And I think in this instance,

366
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,760
like the show gives me very much
like a almost like a documentary

367
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,160
kind of feel to it.
And in many documentaries, there

368
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:09,120
is some kind of sound or track
in the background that you can

369
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:11,960
kind of hear playing.
And to me, when you have

370
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,880
something like that intention is
building, that's when the

371
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,680
silence becomes, like,
magnified.

372
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,240
And when you go from the sound
of the waves crashing to silence

373
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,640
with him speaking, I feel like
the tension hasn't built yet to

374
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,600
that point where the silence can
speak even bigger volumes.

375
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,800
So that's kind of where my mind
was going is like, yeah, because

376
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,560
I had that same thought when
Dominic was talking about that.

377
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,680
Like, should there be music in
here or should it just be

378
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,320
silent?
And I think music building to

379
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,240
the silence, like some of the
building up to the last couple

380
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,120
things he says.
And cutting the sound out or the

381
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,000
music out from there, I think
would have been like heart stop,

382
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,200
like, oh, crap, here we go kind
of thing.

383
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,320
But that that was just some
backing my case.

384
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:59,200
Yeah.
And look, podcast listening,

385
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,760
like almost everything, is
subjective, right?

386
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,000
We have our different things
that some of us may gravitate

387
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,440
to, others may not.
And I don't think it's an awful

388
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,120
suggestion.
I just also agree, kind of agree

389
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:12,840
with both of you.
Like I would kind of want to

390
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,720
hear what it would sound like if
we did something more like what

391
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,320
Nick is suggesting versus that
silence.

392
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,800
I'm curious, does anybody feel
like I'll play it again real

393
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,600
quick?
Does anyone feel like the ocean

394
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,280
waves, and I know this is
nitpicking, but when you have a

395
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,840
really good show, sometimes you
have to nitpick to find some

396
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,080
constructive criticism.
Do you think the waves at the

397
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,320
beginning were a little too
long?

398
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,040
A huge.
Wheel.

399
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,320
So what do you think?
Was that too long or do you

400
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,160
think, and maybe Dominic, you
can speak to this as somebody

401
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,920
who does a lot of sound design,
Do you think that that's a an

402
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,640
appropriate amount of time to
play those ocean waves or should

403
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,440
he have come in sooner?
And I know it's nitpicking a

404
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,760
bit.
No, no, for sure.

405
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,000
It's one of those things where
it's like from a podcast

406
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,960
industry, you got to hook him in
very soon, get on with the

407
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,880
story.
Yes, it's maybe a too long, but

408
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,760
from an artistry trying to build
the story from the beginning,

409
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,360
no.
Right.

410
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:21,760
So I think the answer is it
depends, which I know is a.

411
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,640
That's a common.
Phrase here.

412
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,480
I know it's phoning it in,
right, but but it really does

413
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,000
depend.
So I think it really lends to

414
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,160
what the what his goal is for
the show.

415
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,120
If it's like for, you know, the
industry part of it, then yeah,

416
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:41,480
maybe come in a little sooner.
I don't think you lose the

417
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,600
artistic whatever.
But if that's what he's trying

418
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,320
to do, I think it's perfect.
OK, there you go.

419
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,480
Yeah, me personally, I would
have cut that down a little bit,

420
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,320
maybe a cup 2, two to three
seconds of it just to jump in a

421
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,240
little bit sooner.
And I think if you did that, you

422
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,360
wouldn't lose a whole lot.
No, I don't either.

423
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:01,320
I agree with you.
Yeah.

424
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,960
And by the way, I do want to
also shout out what I noticed he

425
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,200
did on YouTube.
So, you know, he does not have a

426
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,040
video version, but he puts his
podcast up on YouTube and it

427
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,080
looks like he's doing it as a
separate upload.

428
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,760
In other words, he's not
distributing it as an RSS feed

429
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,240
to YouTube.
He's actually uploading it

430
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,720
there.
And what he's doing is it's

431
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,280
basically like his cover image,
but it's animated.

432
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,400
The waves are actually moving
the whole time as you're

433
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,640
listening to the video.
So I just thought that was a

434
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,000
smart, nice little touch.
It's not obviously the most

435
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,520
engaging, but it is nice that
it's better in my opinion, than

436
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,400
a static image if you're going
to put up audio only on YouTube.

437
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,200
Sid, I saw you had you threw up
a pepper a moment ago.

438
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,840
Did you want to chime in on
something?

439
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:55,880
Thank you, Mark.
Good morning, everybody.

440
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,040
I'm actually going to wait
because I wanted to follow up to

441
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,760
Tide's comment and then you
commented it.

442
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,360
You're going to address that a
little bit later.

443
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:02,960
Let's.
Yeah.

444
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,080
Well, I think that was the
comment.

445
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,880
Yeah.
I think that this addresses the

446
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,720
comment.
I'll go to it right now.

447
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,400
One of the things that I think
this episode does really well,

448
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,880
actually, we'll go to it in a
second because I want to do this

449
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,520
first.
What I think it does really well

450
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,360
is it takes history and makes it
easy to picture.

451
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,320
So I'm going to play this clip.
These next moments are small.

452
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,440
There's not, I'm not going to
play a huge build up, but they

453
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,960
matter because they show how a
storyteller can make old

454
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,880
information feel immediate and
understandable.

455
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,080
So like I said, this first clip
plays plays a couple of examples

456
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,200
of what I'm talking about, but I
think it's doing a lot of the

457
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,880
work.
Listen for how he compares.

458
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,720
He makes this comparison to make
history click for us a little

459
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,160
faster.
They had come from Nantucket, a

460
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,080
tiny island off the coast of
Massachusetts in the United

461
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,640
States.
Think of Nantucket as the Saudi

462
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:09,520
Arabia of its day.
The Essex was 87 feet long, not

463
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,120
very big at all by today's
standards.

464
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,920
That's about roughly just
shorter than a basketball court.

465
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,120
The 20 men lived and worked on
her for years at a time.

466
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,160
The smells on a wheel ship are
something we can hardly imagine

467
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,840
today.
Bodies unwashed, rotting food

468
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,360
and wheel blubber with a smell
so thick you could taste it.

469
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,280
I love how he says whale, by the
way.

470
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,080
Wheel.
That's what it sounds like to

471
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,000
this American anyway.
So what am I getting at here?

472
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:50,120
The reference to Nantucket being
the Saudi Arabia of its day or

473
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:53,560
the comparison of the size, I
think of the boat was what he

474
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,800
was using the, you know, the
basketball court reference or

475
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:03,560
those smells on the wheel ship,
on the whale ship, those smells.

476
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,680
I think it's immersive.
It brings me in.

477
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,200
It helps me visualize the story.
And by the way, even if you're

478
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,160
not doing a narrative podcast, I
think thinking along these

479
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,240
lines, when you are doing
especially an audio first

480
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,640
podcast, this is the thing that
I was on my high horse about

481
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,960
last week, is that when you're
doing a podcast, if it's audio

482
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,600
first, but you do have a video
component, I don't believe you

483
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,840
have to make two separate shows.
I think that if you can do a

484
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:40,320
really good job describing the
visuals, it works well.

485
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,840
In fact, it works really well in
my opinion, and I think that

486
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,640
this is a great example of that.
So anybody have any thoughts?

487
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,000
Anyone want to comment on this?
Did that make this feel easier

488
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,600
to grab onto for you?
Or maybe to some people, maybe

489
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,240
they feel like maybe that's kind
of pandering to them, that they

490
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,720
know what Nantucket is.
Either they can visualize the

491
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,480
size of of the boat or this
maybe the smells are annoying

492
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,880
them, Who knows.
But I think for me, and I think

493
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,800
a lot of people would appreciate
that.

494
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,320
Dr. What are your thoughts?
I was, pardon the pun, I was so

495
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,720
on board with him.
I loved the analogy that he made

496
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,320
with the, you know, Saudi Arabia
thing, The fact that it was

497
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,040
Nantucket and it was coming from
a person with, you know, this

498
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,280
heavy Irish brogue.
It was just so.

499
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,720
I loved it so much.
It really surprised me.

500
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,520
Very cool.
Before we go any further, Ralph,

501
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,200
I wanted to pause here because I
know you found us a special

502
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,560
guest for Friday and I quickly
wanted to tease that in case

503
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,480
somebody listening may be
interested.

504
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:50,880
I did.
Thank you, Mark.

505
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,440
Yeah.
Joining us on the show tomorrow

506
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,960
is Sam Sethi.
He is the owner, the president

507
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,640
of True Fans, I guess is what
it's called, and that is a

508
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,360
podcasting platform where you
can.

509
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,200
It's a podcasting app.
What?

510
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,360
Only fans only.
Fans.

511
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,760
No.
True fans.

512
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,320
Let's be very careful about
that.

513
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,440
True fans.
Only true fans.

514
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,680
And he is also the Co host with
James Credlin on Fridays of the

515
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,240
podcast Weekly Review.
But he's going to join us

516
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,920
tomorrow.
I reached out to him and he said

517
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,480
he would love to be on the show.
He's going to tell us about how

518
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,360
his company's doing things a
little bit differently when it

519
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,080
relates to hosting for
podcasters.

520
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,440
He's actually embracing the HLS
technology, and we're going to

521
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,600
get into it with him and why
he's doing that, how it's

522
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,720
working, and exactly the point
of that.

523
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,360
So make sure you join us on
tomorrow's show again, Sam

524
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,640
Sethi.
Thank you, Ralph.

525
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,440
OK, I saw.
Let's see.

526
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,560
Matt, wanted to chime in and
again, just to refresh, we're

527
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:54,200
talking about the
descriptiveness of this podcast

528
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:59,480
and how well the host is sharing
and describing the different

529
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,000
elements of the story.
Matt, what did you want to add?

530
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,800
I think it's just really
important to point out here

531
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,880
again, and I take this
opportunity just because it's a

532
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,320
very unusual phenomenon that
doesn't get talked about in

533
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,640
podcasting.
But there are some people that

534
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:17,120
have a phenomenon called
aphantasia, which prevents them

535
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,800
from visualizing something in
their mind from a description.

536
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,680
For example, if I said imagine
in your mind a shiny red apple

537
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,080
sitting on a table.
It looks delicious.

538
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,440
There's a glistening morning dew
just running along the edges.

539
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,840
The light reflects from the some
people are listening to that and

540
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,800
going, give me the information,
Matt.

541
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,880
I don't, you've told me there's
an apple.

542
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,680
That's all I need.
That's the kind of FN Tasik kind

543
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,760
of perception sometimes.
So I think before all of you run

544
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,120
off when you thought that the
description was too much,

545
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,720
wondering if you know, you might
be a hip hop Med and find out if

546
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,160
you've got aphantasia or not.
I think that just needs to be

547
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,640
recognized sometimes that for
some people, the theater of the

548
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:07,240
mind from descriptive audio just
it doesn't match up to what

549
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,640
they, you know, experience.
Whereas some of us can

550
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,000
experience what, you know,
visualize a ship the size of a

551
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,640
basketball court being compared
to a whale of a similar size or

552
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,120
bigger that that creates the
scene for us, or the ocean waves

553
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,800
lapping against a boat in the
middle of the ocean in complete

554
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,720
isolation.
That works for some people. the

555
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,640
IT just doesn't work for others
for many reasons.

556
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,880
But aphantasia, I like to bring
it up sometimes.

557
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,320
I thought this was a good
opportunity.

558
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,960
Yeah, thank you.
And thank you for the for living

559
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,440
up to your reputation with all
the big words.

560
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,520
And I know Ralph is chomping at
the bit over here behind the

561
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,800
scenes because Ralph has got a
Jingle ready for Matt and his

562
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,920
big words that he likes to use.
But I don't have it queued up

563
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,320
yet.
And I wanted to try to try to

564
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,480
distribute these new jingles
effectively.

565
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,800
I didn't want to just throw them
all out in one week.

566
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,880
I want to really make them make
it.

567
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,560
What's the word I'm looking for?
And I want them to simmer a

568
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,600
little bit.
So that's why I didn't have that

569
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,840
queued up.
By the way, Jessica was agreeing

570
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,880
with some of us earlier here,
she says.

571
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,400
I agree, and sometimes it
depends on what you're hungry to

572
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,760
consume.
There was one other thing she

573
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:19,360
said.
Ah, yes.

574
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,560
His flow reminds me of the lull
of waves.

575
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,760
His voice is the melody.
I love that Ralph, doing the

576
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,600
little.
What is that a hula dance you're

577
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,400
doing over there, Ralph?
Well, yeah, it's the waves, man.

578
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,040
He she is absolutely right.
Because it's almost put you in a

579
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,320
trance.
I was just listening to this and

580
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,200
I'm just going.
I could take a nap now.

581
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,480
Not that it was content, wasn't
good, don't misunderstand me.

582
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,560
But it was one of those things
where I am just in this.

583
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,360
And that's why again, I said I
need to take advice from this

584
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:49,520
guy.
I shouldn't be giving him

585
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:50,640
advice.
Yeah.

586
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,120
And by the way, we've got some
people here on YouTube.

587
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,440
Thank you for watching on
YouTube as well.

588
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,040
And Jr.
Junior, I always get them.

589
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,920
I always intertwine Jr. or
Junior.

590
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,880
But he was mentioning the
dramatic sound, dramatic with

591
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,679
the sound effects to draw you
in.

592
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,840
He says he puts you in a trance
with his description.

593
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,040
Also agreeing.
And also thank you for giving us

594
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,880
a little bit of kudos, Jr. for
the video presentation of this

595
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,159
show.
Appreciate you watching and the

596
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:26,480
fact that you're enjoying it.
Thank you for calling that out.

597
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,679
OK.
And Mark, can I, yeah, go ahead

598
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:31,000
just for a second.
Just really quickly, I, I think

599
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,560
this was the part of the episode
that it kind of lends to what

600
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,679
Matt was saying before, because
I think the description, the

601
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:41,880
well blubber and stuff like
that, that was the first time in

602
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,719
the episode I thought, I wonder
if he's done this before, Right?

603
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,000
Right.
Without actually saying because

604
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,000
I hadn't looked into the bio or
anything, something like that.

605
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,800
And so I think people who are
experts are able to give you the

606
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,800
perspective and the setting
without overwhelming you with

607
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,440
it, right?
Like he started talking like

608
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,280
nautical miles and I was like,
yeah, you're about to lose me,

609
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,080
bro.
But if the way he described it

610
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,520
and he did that example later on
them.

611
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,560
So I don't want to give it away
in case you bring it up, but

612
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,120
that description of the
basketball court, stuff like

613
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,440
that, as a person who has never
gone out on a boat like that, it

614
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,480
really gave me an idea like, oh,
OK, that makes sense.

615
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,960
So no, I appreciated that part.
Yeah, thank you, Dominic.

616
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,640
And Matt, you wanted to add on
to that breaking?

617
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,320
News.
I've been doing a little bit of

618
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,640
research in the background after
someone, I can't remember, it

619
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,360
might have been you, Mark said.
Maybe he's done this before.

620
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,720
Yeah.
So I did a bit of research a

621
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:41,760
little bit and I've discovered
that he has been on several

622
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,520
podcast appearances in the past
and I can attribute potentially

623
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,280
two other maritime related
podcasts to his name.

624
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:54,560
The first being a being Maritime
Careers International, which

625
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,360
seems to have an Instagram
account but no correlating

626
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,680
podcast may have been removed.
Similarly, 20 minutes see

627
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,600
Stories, which is structured
very similarly, has two

628
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:11,240
episodes, and the second episode
is about Tom Crean, which also

629
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,800
is the second episode of Salvage
the Subject Matter.

630
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,440
So it's entirely possible we're
dealing with a practiced expert

631
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,520
who just hasn't left his work on
the table.

632
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,800
In any case, still speaks to his
experience and his ability that

633
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,160
he can create episodes like
this.

634
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,800
Agreed.
Yeah, absolutely.

635
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,040
OK, I want to keep things going.
Thank you again for your

636
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,160
investigative work.
Appreciate that, Matt, I want to

637
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,480
dig into, let's see which, where
are we here?

638
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,560
Let's go to clip three.
Yes, clip 3.

639
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:51,840
Let's hear the whale attack and
the sinking sequence.

640
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,120
And as you listen, notice the
different things like the

641
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,080
pacing, which I've seen some
comments about the pacing here

642
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,200
in the chat.
So we'll talk about that, the

643
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,800
narration, the emotional
intensity, and whether you feel

644
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,040
like the production is doing
enough or whether there may be

645
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,960
room for even more impact.
Let's listen.

646
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:18,160
And then he saw it.
An enormous sperm wheel, almost

647
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,720
exactly the same size of the
ship, so not far off the length

648
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,320
of a basketball court.
An absolutely huge creature.

649
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,000
It was heading slowly towards
them.

650
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,720
She has watched it approach.
Something wasn't right.

651
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,920
He ordered the helmsman of the
Essex to turn away, but it was

652
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,760
too late.
The wheel struck the ship full

653
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,440
on.
The impact threw men off their

654
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,760
feet and the ship shuddered.
They'd heard of whales striking

655
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,920
ships.
It did happen, but not like

656
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,480
this.
Chius was convinced that what

657
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,440
this wheel had done, it did it
on purpose.

658
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,000
All right, so let's talk about
this.

659
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,200
What did you notice in this
particular sequence?

660
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,800
What thoughts do you have?
Sid, go for it.

661
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,320
Yeah, I really enjoyed this
episode so much.

662
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,200
So I started listening to the
second one because I love

663
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,160
history, right?
So I just was enthralled with

664
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:18,520
this.
And he did a really, really good

665
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,360
job.
But to the enhanced sound

666
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:26,680
design, like I think it would
have really made an impact if we

667
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,320
had heard the sound of a whale
crashing into a wooden hull of a

668
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,840
boat, right?
It would have just, it's kind of

669
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,640
like just the impact of that, if
you will, that sometimes when

670
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,880
you're when there's something
happening and and there's a

671
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,360
pause, you hear a shotgun go off
or something like that, it would

672
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,840
have been a bit more dramatic.
I do appreciate the references

673
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,400
back to how big the whale was
again, the size of the

674
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,920
basketball court.
But Ralph and I are agreeing, I

675
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,240
think he was just a little bit
too slow and he could have

676
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:58,920
increased his pace just a little
bit and not and it did.

677
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,240
It wasn't like it I was going to
stop listening because he was

678
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:04,840
talking slow, but I think it
could have benefited from a

679
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,640
little bit more of a increase in
the speed of how he's talking.

680
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,520
And then if he's worried about
the length of the show, adding

681
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,840
in some of the pause,
intentional pauses and the

682
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,680
sounds like we just talked about
would have had added a lot of

683
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,400
drama to to this, much more
drama to this.

684
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,280
OK, yeah, I'm with you there,
Sid.

685
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,120
I found, like found that same
thing when I was listening.

686
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,160
I wanted there to be some more
sound design, some more sound

687
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,400
effects.
Yeah.

688
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,640
And that's a great example.
Like when he says that that

689
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,880
whale struck, I want to hear it.
I want to hear something that

690
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,000
just emphasizes that point and
feel that in my body when it

691
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,240
happens as opposed to just
visualizing it.

692
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,560
So whatever that thought is, you
know, just a boom.

693
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,720
I think that would really
capture attention a little bit

694
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:57,200
of a more of a pattern disrupt
and more of an immersive

695
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,440
experience at that point.
And by the way, the pacing

696
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,840
thing, I saw it, maybe it was
Matt put it in the chat here.

697
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,680
Did you try listening Sid at 1
1/2 times the speed?

698
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:09,120
Do you think that would have
helped?

699
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,800
I did not, but it didn't bother
me enough to even think about

700
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,000
doing that right.
But as I was listening, I was

701
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,320
just like, maybe you could
increase the pace of the story

702
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,000
just a little bit, but I wasn't
bothered enough to go change how

703
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,120
I consume podcasts.
OK, fair enough.

704
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,720
Yeah.
And Ralph, you wanted to chime

705
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:28,640
in?
Yeah, I just wanted to sort of

706
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,480
go alongside of what Sid was
saying at this part.

707
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,240
I'm glad you picked this clip
because this is a part where I

708
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:36,800
thought he has a great voice
that he could have made more

709
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,560
dramatic.
And at this very stage is when I

710
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,400
start to think he's reading a
script, and I'm cool with that.

711
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,520
But this is a part that I think
if he had done it better.

712
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,040
And like I said, I thought this
dude did a great job.

713
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,680
So don't miss, don't mishear
what I'm saying.

714
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,440
But this is a part where he
could have built it up more and

715
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,480
he could have gotten more
excited and he could have had a

716
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,360
quicker pace.
And we could have pictured this

717
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,960
whale coming towards the boat
and all of a sudden it struck.

718
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,360
And I just think that would have
been more dramatic and it would

719
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,800
have gone along with what he was
already doing.

720
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,560
Because there were times when I
thought like, yeah, this guy's

721
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,040
reading a script because I
noticed the tail offs at the end

722
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,880
of his words sometimes.
Now, maybe that's an accent

723
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,800
thing, but I picked it up a lot
that it felt like because when I

724
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,520
first started podcasting, I was
doing the same thing before.

725
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,200
I worked with a speaking coach
and she told me don't end up

726
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,000
here, you know, and like you
normally talk and that's what I

727
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,520
felt a little bit throughout his
presentation.

728
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,400
I definitely think that part of
that is the accent, because the

729
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,000
accent does usually carry a bit
of an uptick.

730
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,800
We were talking about that
before the show.

731
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,360
So I think that has something to
do with it.

732
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:44,160
Also, you know, I maybe it was
just an assumption for me, one

733
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,040
that I wasn't even conscious of.
I don't think I really paid

734
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,360
attention to the fact that he
was reading because I think I

735
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,960
maybe was just assuming he must
have been reading.

736
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,720
Like, I don't think somebody
could tell that story off the

737
00:41:56,720 --> 00:42:00,320
top of their head.
And the last thing I wanted to

738
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,440
say is it could have been a
styling choice like this host.

739
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,040
You know, there are hosts that
intentionally keep the same

740
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,080
tone, the same pacing the whole
way through.

741
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,920
It's their brand.
It's just the way that they want

742
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,240
to deliver it.
And then the audiences gravitate

743
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:18,160
to that.
They just expect that.

744
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,880
And I'm not saying your advice
is wrong Ralph because I do.

745
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,880
I can feel a difference if he
was doing more of a build up,

746
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,000
but I also appreciate his style
for what it is.

747
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,480
I think that's very fair, Mark,
and I think you're right.

748
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,120
He made a stylistic choice, and
I'm totally in agreement with

749
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:38,320
you on that.
Yeah, OK.

750
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:39,920
And Dominic, you wanted to chime
in, Go ahead.

751
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,200
No, I think that may be the case
because I I also kind of delved

752
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:49,440
into the other episode well, and
even the music to the other

753
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,760
episode that he has as well.
And even the Music Choice, the

754
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,280
music sound bad that he has for
this episode is also in the

755
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,440
other episode as well.
So I wonder if there's a level

756
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,280
of consistency he's trying to
keep with the show overall.

757
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:11,440
And that would make sense to me,
not just not just the music bed,

758
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,640
but also in the way he delivers
the lines.

759
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:16,280
Got it.
OK.

760
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:17,760
Matt, did you want to add
something?

761
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,400
Yeah, I think like Ralph's on to
something there and I'm sure

762
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,880
whatever Dominic said is also
plausible.

763
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,720
Unfortunately, those of us on
Riverside also misspeak a little

764
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:30,440
bit because of Mark's Internet I
presume.

765
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,360
But I think that's where
building the voice for where

766
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,840
things and the persona going
forward is important.

767
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,640
Like he might be playing around
with a couple of things.

768
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,600
And I think what he is leaning
into at the moment is, you know,

769
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:48,040
come along with me as I tell you
a story and it's the story

770
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:53,200
that's at the forefront.
So perhaps a dramatic speed up

771
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,200
for the moment the whale hit the
ship and then and then this

772
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,960
happened and then this happened
and then always calm.

773
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,320
That might be just a bit too,
too much, but there might be

774
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,040
something perfect for Richard's
voice and for the cadence that

775
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,720
doesn't break the flow.
But still, you know, stresses

776
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:13,040
out as you listen.
The fact that he has speed up

777
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,360
and you don't even realize he's
speed up yet.

778
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,000
There's like a there's a balance
there, but I think this is the

779
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,760
operant moment for him to pick
who he is.

780
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,000
Is it the story that's playing
the major part?

781
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,280
Like Tide pointed out earlier,
the selection of language is

782
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,800
important to establish that and
what you keep and what you

783
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:34,560
remove.
And also how he as the

784
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,560
storyteller establishes his
persona as part of the podcast.

785
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,960
And whether we're there with him
or he's just telling us a story

786
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,120
and we're there for the story.
There's stylistic choices to

787
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,280
make there that I think talk to
all the things we're kind of

788
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,800
mentioning at the moment.
Thank you, Matt.

789
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,720
Sid, did you want to chime into?
Yeah, I have a question about

790
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:57,120
this.
So there's several points of the

791
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,640
episode where he's telling the
story from the viewpoint of the

792
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,120
character.
He's talking as if I'm the

793
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,560
character.
The captain says this and so and

794
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,240
so says that, right?
And as I was listening to this,

795
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:11,480
I thought a lot about Dominic
and his shows, and Dominic does

796
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,760
a great job at bringing in the
voices of the character

797
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,600
themselves.
Now he's got recordings and

798
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,520
things that he can pull and you
can hear the characters voice.

799
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,840
If he wanted to, could he do
something like that with this

800
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,840
show where the captain's
actually talking, realizing the

801
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,040
audio recording may not be
available, but he could indeed

802
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,440
make that person's voice or
mimic that person's voice using

803
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,720
AI, right?
And I think if he did something

804
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:39,400
like that, it would add to the
show as well.

805
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,320
I realized it's more work to do,
but I also think it's going to

806
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,480
have more impact.
Ralph, what's the big smile for?

807
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,560
No, I think Matt is going to
lose his stack on that one as we

808
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,240
were talking about AI.
So I don't.

809
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:54,880
I don't want to speak for Matt,
but I saw Matt make a very

810
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,960
strong gesture when the word AI
was invoked.

811
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,240
Ah.
Hang on, hang on, let's not talk

812
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:02,560
about gestures here.
I rapidly shook my head.

813
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,280
There was nothing untoward
flying around from digits here.

814
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:11,040
I just rapidly shook my head
because I thought a like in a

815
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,760
couple of years we might get
there and voice over in Fire AI

816
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,880
is definitely improving.
But I think these are stories,

817
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,840
right?
And often, sometimes they do,

818
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:27,520
but not often Do you see a fully
cast audio book where all of the

819
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,680
characters come in.
Harry Potter I think has all of

820
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,120
the original actors in for the
books when they do the audio

821
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,600
books.
So I think for him perhaps

822
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,880
putting on the voices himself or
having a small team of

823
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,920
volunteers or people that he
pays to enact those voices, a

824
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,480
male and a female would be
enough probably to do that.

825
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,480
I think would mate.
What you don't want to do is

826
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:51,080
pull the listener out of his the
trance.

827
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,680
As you guys said, I think AI
voices may do that.

828
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,560
But that is a very That is an
opinion from me on that one, a

829
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,080
vigorous.
Action apps, I actually agree

830
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,960
with this in that regard because
in this goes in line with what I

831
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,000
was saying as far as his accent
goes.

832
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,560
Like I think the accent is part
of the trance and like, even if

833
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,960
it's not AI and you got voice
actors and like, you would still

834
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:22,080
have a hard time trying to find
somebody to not be anachronistic

835
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,960
with the voices that would be
different from the host, right?

836
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,920
Because even though there were
American sailors a part of this

837
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:36,360
mission or whatever, even the
way we speak now, English today

838
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,440
in 2026 is different than they
spoke English in 1820, right?

839
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,920
So like even then you will find
it difficult.

840
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,760
And I think I want to stay in
the trance for the full 35

841
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,160
minutes to really enjoy the
story.

842
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,800
So I definitely get what Sid is
saying, and I and AI choices

843
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,800
have definitely improved, but I
don't know if they've improved

844
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,880
to the point where I would
implement it in this particular

845
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:00,560
episode, if that makes any
sense.

846
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:05,400
That makes a lot of sense.
Yes, thank you, Dominic and Sid

847
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,320
appreciate that and Matt for
that matter, thank you as well.

848
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,960
I want to go to this next clip
because I also want to make sure

849
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,400
we leave a little bit of time
for some feedback about the

850
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,920
branding, the website, etcetera.
I have plenty of notes here.

851
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,520
I know Dr. does I know that
Ralph wanted to chime in on that

852
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,920
as well.
So this this next clip, this

853
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:30,240
next moment here, let me make
sure I have the right one queued

854
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:31,320
up.
I don't want to hit the wrong

855
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,480
button this morning.
This one is I think, to what we

856
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,240
were talking about with Sid
earlier and Tide earlier.

857
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:43,040
This is where a moment where and
it happens a couple of times

858
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:49,840
where the host is telling the
story, but then sort of pauses

859
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,840
and talks to us, the listener.
And I'm curious how people feel

860
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,080
about that.
So let's play it.

861
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:01,120
Waking up, even if they did get
some sleep, to the same horizon,

862
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,800
the same relentless ocean, not
knowing what the next day would

863
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:10,560
bring or the week after that,
the water they had on board, the

864
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,480
food, the hope, all of it
started running out.

865
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,120
But they kept going.
The weeks that followed were

866
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,720
slow and merciless.
And don't worry, things are

867
00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:25,480
going to happen soon.
The sun burned them raw every

868
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,440
day.
They'd know shelter.

869
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:30,720
They're scared.
So there it was, if you paid

870
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:33,880
attention there he stops and
says don't worry, something's

871
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,400
about to happen.
I'm paraphrasing but I think you

872
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,000
get the gist here.
And he does stuff like that a

873
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,720
few times, not often, but a few
times where I noticed.

874
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:48,040
And I'm wondering if it was
necessary because let's be real,

875
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:52,920
here are the the podcast episode
feels a lot like an audio book,

876
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,920
which is a good thing.
That's not a knock on the

877
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,760
presentation.
And if we think about audio

878
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:03,440
books, the narrator is not
pulling, in most cases, pulling

879
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,560
us out of the story to let us
know that you know, something's

880
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,360
coming.
So I'm wondering, did that work

881
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,920
for you guys or not?
Matt, you raised your hand, so

882
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,640
let me go to you first.
Just a bit of commentary as

883
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,600
well.
Someone posted on LinkedIn

884
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,320
recently, Keelan Peterson, who
does mentally a magpie, she

885
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,720
reviews podcasts a lot.
She actually asked what the

886
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:28,400
difference between a podcast and
an audio book is for people.

887
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,840
And the thing I commented is
that an audio book is reading a

888
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,400
story as written, whereas a
podcast is intended to be a

889
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,440
spoken word.
Now, here the differentiator for

890
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,080
what you're referring to there
could be whether we are speaking

891
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,040
a story or whether we are
speaking in front of an

892
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,320
audience.
And to me, like, I didn't even

893
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,320
pick that up when you played the
clip.

894
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,360
I didn't even notice it, to be
fair.

895
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,240
Yeah, But there might be a bias
there for podcasting.

896
00:50:58,240 --> 00:50:59,840
Be curious to hear what everyone
else thinks.

897
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,560
Let's go to Sid.
I know he wanted to chime in on

898
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:03,360
this.
Go ahead, Sid.

899
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,240
Yeah, I heard him do this three
or four times.

900
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,160
And the one that sticks out to
me the most of where he did it

901
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,280
was when he talks about the
island that they discovered and

902
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,880
they passed another island or
something.

903
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,160
And he said, oh, there's a story
about that as well.

904
00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:22,720
And I forget exactly what he
said, but I think the phrasing

905
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:26,640
that you and Ty both used is he
pulled me out of the story by

906
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,840
the commentary of something that
wasn't part of the story.

907
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,600
If you want to do another
episode about that island and

908
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,720
what all happened on that other
island, then do another episode

909
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:38,240
about that.
Don't pull me out of the story

910
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:42,160
that I'm in to tell me there's
another story about the island.

911
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,520
OK, OK, that's fair.
Dominic, as an award-winning

912
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,320
narrative podcaster, I'm curious
your thoughts about this.

913
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,000
Was this Is this a move that you
do on your podcasts and would

914
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,680
you recommend it?
I did notice it.

915
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,600
I have done it.
Think there's a way to do it a

916
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:04,520
bit more subtly or even just
like, you know, because he did

917
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,720
even say the phrase that's a
story for another day.

918
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,280
I may do something in that
regard.

919
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:16,200
I won't go on a whole like mini
history of the other because I

920
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,720
think the word pit Karen came
up.

921
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:21,160
I can't remember if it was the
island, separate island or

922
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,520
something like that.
But yeah, I I saw it as like

923
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:28,920
somebody breaking the 4th wall,
which I am always a fan of in

924
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:34,000
both TV film and podcasting.
But that part probably went on a

925
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,720
little longer than those because
Sid's right, he did do it like 3

926
00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:41,600
or 4 times and I was like, OK,
maybe didn't have to do that

927
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:46,120
much to it.
I do short, short answer, I like

928
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,400
the practice.
He probably did it a little bit

929
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:49,440
too long, if that makes any
sense.

930
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,600
OK, yeah, I like that.
And yeah, things like that's a

931
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,560
story for another day.
That works really well for me

932
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,320
personally, I think because, you
know, it's like, oh, OK, there's

933
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,320
this is leading me into
something else that he may be

934
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,920
telling me later down the road.
Yeah, yeah, OK, cool.

935
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,320
I like that.
Dr. I'm going to ask you to hold

936
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:13,200
their thought because I do want
to keep going here because

937
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,160
there's one more clip I want to
play.

938
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,840
It's the ending and I want it
because I think there's some

939
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,040
things to talk about with how he
wraps up and then goes into his

940
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,560
call to action.
And I do want to do the branding

941
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:25,000
stuff.
So I'm going to ask the team if

942
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,400
you have a few extra minutes.
Let's stick around.

943
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,480
This will be a little bit longer
of an episode, but I think it's

944
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,240
important that we get to these
last couple of points.

945
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,120
This last clip, like I said, is
the conclusion.

946
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,160
It's also the longest clip that
I'm going to play today.

947
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:41,960
It's the last clip I'm going to
play today.

948
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,800
But I think it's really
important that we stick with it.

949
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,640
So let's play it and then we'll
talk about it on the other side.

950
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,520
Well, there you have it.
What a story.

951
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,320
And it's really hard to believe
that it's true.

952
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:05,040
If there was ever a moment and a
place to to test a human being

953
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:10,000
and to see what they're made of,
it would be a small wooden boat

954
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:12,760
in the middle of the Pacific
Ocean.

955
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,600
No food, no water, no hope of
rescue.

956
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:26,080
Of course, we now know the
phrase Post Traumatic Stress

957
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:31,520
Disorder, PTSD, possibly what
these men carried home with them

958
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,160
very understandably.
But back then there was no such

959
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:40,560
word or phrase.
There was no help, there was no

960
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,080
understanding.
They just had to live with it

961
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:48,000
every single day in silence.
And of course, the judgment that

962
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:54,000
went with it, the judgment of
the decisions they made, and yet

963
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,720
they survived.
So the question that I think

964
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:05,600
raises in my mind by this story
is what would I do in that

965
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,120
situation if I was one of those
men?

966
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,640
So what do you think you would
have done if you were one of

967
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,520
those men?
It's possibly really difficult

968
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,120
to say.
Just before we finish, a couple

969
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,360
of quick things.
One random fact is that this

970
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:25,960
story was the inspiration for
the Moby Dick story by Herman

971
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,680
Melville.
He had heard it from a survivor

972
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,920
at sea.
So please get in touch via the

973
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,440
details in the show notes
wherever you're listening.

974
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,640
I'd love to hear some feedback.
I'd love to hear if how this

975
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,160
podcast is landing if you're
enjoying it.

976
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,360
And you'll also find details
there too in the show notes of

977
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,360
further reading on the ESIC
story.

978
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,840
If you want to read more, this
has been Salvage.

979
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,160
And until next time, goodbye
all.

980
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,640
Right.
So DRI, think you wanted to

981
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:08,160
chime in first, How did that
full closing sequence land for

982
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,280
you?
Well, I was trying to figure out

983
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,960
the way to verbalize it, and I
think Sid did a good job with

984
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,160
his.
He took me out of the story a

985
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,960
little too soon.
It was like premature.

986
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,480
It was just too soon.
It was jarring the way that we

987
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,960
got to that CTA, you know,
contact me if you have any

988
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,360
feedback, that sort of thing.
I think there there could have

989
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:38,280
been like maybe a whoosh or some
kind of trigger sound to say,

990
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:42,200
OK, now we're done.
And now here are some notes.

991
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,480
This is based on a.
But, you know, something like

992
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,240
that.
But yeah, and also, I want to

993
00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:51,440
get this in before we're done.
I think that this kind of

994
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,960
podcast would lend itself very
well if it had a trailer.

995
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:01,200
I think a trailer would really
would really be impactful,

996
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:06,240
taking a few clips from both of
these episodes, maybe a third

997
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:09,920
episode if he's got that in the
can, and building a trailer

998
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,520
around this.
That's what I'm thinking.

999
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:13,080
Yeah.
OK.

1000
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,160
So yeah, if you go and look on
say Apple or Spotify, he has a

1001
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,800
couple of episodes.
But yeah, I didn't see a trailer

1002
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:21,160
either.
And I yeah, I think that would

1003
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:26,000
be that would lend itself well.
And I'll say this, you know, I

1004
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,920
always believe a trailer will do
will be an additional plus for a

1005
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,920
podcast.
But I'll say, if his podcast

1006
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:38,400
episodes always start with that
first minute intro, as this one

1007
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,720
was that we played, I think it's
just fine.

1008
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,520
Like if some if a listener's
coming in for the first time and

1009
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:47,560
just sees the two episodes press
play on one of the two, they're

1010
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,400
most likely going to get a very
good feel for what the episode

1011
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,680
is about, in my opinion.
But yeah, I'm with you.

1012
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,720
I think a trailer only supports
and helps what he's doing.

1013
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,520
Let's see here.
Anyone else?

1014
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,760
Any thoughts?
Did anyone else feel the same

1015
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:06,080
way as far as that transition
from ending the story?

1016
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:10,000
Like I liked the wrap up.
I like I always like how in a

1017
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,000
movie too, for example, you'll
see it, watch a movie and then

1018
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,000
at the end sometimes they'll
give you some some text on the

1019
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,600
screen that says what happens to
the characters now, you know,

1020
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,120
moving forward.
I like that kind of stuff.

1021
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:27,680
I think that works well and I
like how he tied it back to

1022
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:32,200
today with PTSD references and
then how he even asked us a

1023
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:36,000
question to think about, you
know, almost like a take away

1024
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,720
segment, if you will.
I agree that there might have

1025
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,520
it.
It did feel a little bit jarring

1026
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:46,920
when he then it's went to his
CTA asking us to connect with

1027
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,480
him.
I agree also Dr. Maybe it's a

1028
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,680
whoosh.
Maybe it's an ocean sound

1029
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:56,440
transition or something to just
to kind of cleanse the palate,

1030
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,280
but I think it should be quick.
Something something in line,

1031
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:03,480
like an ocean sound or one of
those fog horns or something,

1032
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,400
you know?
Yeah, I think it should be

1033
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,240
something relatively quick
because look, when we wrap up a

1034
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:12,040
story, the audience should feel
like the story's wrapping up.

1035
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:15,840
And the problem with that is if
it's wrapped up to them, they

1036
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:19,240
may just want to hit stop on the
episode and then they'll miss

1037
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,800
the whole CTA.
So I think you have to be

1038
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,920
careful with how you do that
transition.

1039
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:28,800
But I do think maybe even a long
pause, a longer pause might be

1040
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,320
all that's needed there.
A longer pause.

1041
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:32,840
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.

1042
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,720
And also we did some digging and
we found out that he he doesn't

1043
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:42,680
have a website for his podcast
and I would encourage him to

1044
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:47,120
check out pod page for this.
Yes, we will include a pod page

1045
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,840
link in the show notes.
I think that's a great

1046
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:50,800
suggestion.
Yeah.

1047
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,600
He only seems to have maybe a
Buzz Sprout page.

1048
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,560
But yeah, and let's talk about
that just for a quick.

1049
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,640
Well, actually I'm going to pin
on that for a second and that

1050
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,240
because I thought saw Dominic
wanted to chime in about the

1051
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:06,480
whole transition from ending the
story and going into the CTA.

1052
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,360
Go ahead, Dominic.
Just really quickly, I think

1053
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:14,160
usually what I try to do is, you
know, as I as I'm ending the

1054
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,880
story, I'm letting the music,
I'll bump up the music just a

1055
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:21,000
little bit, you know, and then
let it fade out, right.

1056
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,880
And so that's usually like a
nice palate cleanser.

1057
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:27,600
It typically in the narrative,
especially given his pacing, you

1058
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:31,960
you don't want something jarring
like a foghorn or something like

1059
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:36,280
that, artistically speaking, of
course, only because like that

1060
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,880
kind of go, it's kind of
contradictory to the format that

1061
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:42,640
he's kind of created a little
bit.

1062
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:46,240
So I do agree with the you know
the transition, but you may want

1063
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,640
to something a little bit softer
than you know what's been

1064
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:50,640
suggested.
OK.

1065
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,040
Yeah, that makes sense.
Thank you, Dominic.

1066
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,880
Matt, did you want to chime in?
Yeah, just a very quick bit of

1067
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,400
advice that I heard from working
a bit with Mason Amadeus on

1068
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,320
Digital Folklore, another
podcast.

1069
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,560
When you're building a story
when there was scripting X, it's

1070
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,640
an entirely audio, experienced
narrative experience that

1071
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,640
intersperses interviews.
But as you write it, thinking

1072
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,920
about where anyone is in the
scene, he said, was the best way

1073
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,320
to script it, to make it as
engaging as possible.

1074
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:21,200
I think the similar, similar
approach could be good here

1075
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,080
because it places the story and
him as a character or a narrator

1076
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,520
in the story as the primary
thing that guides what happens

1077
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:30,480
next.
So we could say, you know how to

1078
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,720
transition sound there, bit of
music, whoosh, waves, whatever.

1079
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,960
That's the tactical version.
But I think for him figuring out

1080
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:43,440
who he is in this story, where
the story sits, and then

1081
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:47,120
thinking about the scene, like,
is he in an armchair?

1082
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,720
Is he closing a book when he
finishes the story and how does

1083
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:55,240
that come out in the audio?
When we have our Imaginarium, I

1084
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:57,120
think that might be a really
good way to approach it.

1085
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:58,800
Yeah.
Thank you, Matt.

1086
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,080
Appreciate that.
I'm not going to expand on it

1087
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,720
just for sake of time, but thank
you for that.

1088
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,520
I think those are good points.
And let's just quickly go back

1089
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:12,240
to the reference of no website
and that call to action at the

1090
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:14,760
end.
I personally, as the listener

1091
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,280
found it really hard to take
action.

1092
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:20,040
He asked for feedback, right?
Well, we're giving him the

1093
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,600
feedback here today.
So he's getting it, but in the

1094
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,520
more traditional sense.
I had no idea how I could

1095
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,320
contact him.
There was no real way.

1096
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,240
I went into the Apple page to
see if there were links to a

1097
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,120
website or to see if there was
an e-mail address.

1098
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:36,960
I went to Spotify looking for
the same thing.

1099
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,920
I went on Google searching for a
website.

1100
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,960
I could not find anything.
As a matter of fact, I had a

1101
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,400
hard time just even finding his
RSS feed somewhere.

1102
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,920
So I think that this is, you
know, and I've seen that he's

1103
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:54,520
also gone on other platforms
asking people for feedback, like

1104
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:56,440
on Reddit and what and what have
you.

1105
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,720
I think if he really wants this
feedback, he's got to make it

1106
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,760
very easy for the audience to
connect with him.

1107
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,840
Give them the specific way.
If you're going to do that at

1108
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,640
the end of your show, tell them
exactly how. e-mail me, give the

1109
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:15,720
e-mail address.
And to D Rs point, I think we

1110
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,960
need to create for this podcast
a home base.

1111
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:21,120
And I think that starts with a
podcast.

1112
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:22,720
I'm sorry, starts with a
website.

1113
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,000
There was I also couldn't find
any social media presence.

1114
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,880
And I'm not encouraging him to
start with social media presence

1115
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,600
as your home base.
But I think having some other

1116
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:35,160
ways that your audience can find
you is going to increase your

1117
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:37,560
odds of getting the feedback
that you're looking for.

1118
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,280
And I'll go say this one last
thing.

1119
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,440
Be specific about what kind of
feedback that you want.

1120
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,640
Don't just ask for feedback
because it's going to be harder

1121
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,040
for people to know what, what to
say.

1122
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,360
Be very specific.
You know, did something I shared

1123
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,440
with you today about this story
really stick with you?

1124
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:59,040
Or was there something about
this podcast that I, that I

1125
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,920
spoke about or I did that didn't
sit well with you?

1126
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,920
But just ask for something
specific.

1127
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,360
Specific, yeah.
I also wanted to mention that

1128
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:13,440
through our research, it looks
like he's missing on some of the

1129
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:18,600
platforms like True Fans Podcast
Index, Evox, iheart.

1130
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:24,840
So it would help his discovery
if he was on those platforms.

1131
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:26,600
Yeah, fair enough.
I didn't.

1132
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:29,520
I can't verify whether that's
the case or not, but yeah, go

1133
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,160
ahead, Dominic.
Just to be fair, I think the

1134
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:37,160
fact that he it appears to be a
new podcast, it does take a few

1135
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,040
months or weeks to kind of get
on some of those platforms.

1136
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:44,600
Like I know for sure, like when
you upload your first show, it

1137
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,320
takes a few weeks before you can
get on iheart, right?

1138
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,280
Like I know that through Lipson,
right?

1139
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:50,680
Like I think it takes like 6
weeks.

1140
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:53,480
You have to like have beyond the
RSS feed.

1141
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:55,760
So sometimes they may just be
it's a brand new show.

1142
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,000
The website thing I agree with
or whatever as far as like you

1143
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,480
could do that, but some of these
things they may just take time.

1144
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:04,960
I agree wholeheartedly.
Thank you, Dominic, and thank

1145
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,720
you to all of you for not just
breaking this episode down but

1146
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:12,200
also staying a little later
today so that we could do this

1147
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,760
justice.
This is overall, I think if I

1148
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:18,720
had to guess, nobody gave their
actual five star rating, but I

1149
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,560
would say this show probably
gets at least Yeah, several

1150
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,920
people are holding up a five out
of five.

1151
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:25,720
Matt says 6.
I was.

1152
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,360
Going to I gave it in the chat.
Oh, what did you say, Dominic?

1153
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:32,640
I said five star review a game
right after I listened to the

1154
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,360
show and I said fantastic show
awards downloading.

1155
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,280
Right on, Right on.
Yeah, I was going to say at

1156
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:42,520
least a 4 1/2 out of five, but
it sounds more now like a 5 out

1157
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:44,880
of five from the majority of our
team.

1158
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:46,840
Sid, did you want a final word
on this?

1159
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,560
Excuse me, we just had a
question because we didn't get

1160
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,160
to the branding and stuff and
all of that.

1161
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,560
Going to give him any feedback
about that because I do believe

1162
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:57,960
there's some things here.
I do think there are some things

1163
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,880
that he could do that could
increase his discovery and his

1164
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:07,840
reach by cover art, you know,
maybe even a name change and

1165
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:10,360
things and thinking about SEO
keywords and stuff like that.

1166
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:12,680
Are you going to give him or do
you are going to give him any

1167
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:15,880
specific feedback about that?
Yeah, we can do that behind the

1168
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,000
scenes.
Yeah, I think we've run out of

1169
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,600
time to do it today, but yes, we
can definitely do more of that

1170
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:25,000
for him or maybe even talk about
it on another episode.

1171
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,240
So, yeah, thank you for calling
that out, Sid.

1172
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:30,240
And again, thank you to all of
you for participating today.

1173
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:33,720
We're back tomorrow with our
special guest and we would love

1174
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:36,560
for you to be there.
Also bring your wins tomorrow as

1175
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:37,880
well.
We're going to celebrate our

1176
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,360
wins after we have that
interview.

1177
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:44,160
So until tomorrow, make it a
great day.

1178
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:45,400
Everybody.
Take care.