464. Why This “Weird Facts” Show Is Impossible to Stop Listening To

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Good morning podcasting morning
chat.

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Today is Monday, March 2nd,
2026, and today is our obsession

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worthy podcast show.
We're going to be listening to

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No Such Thing as Fish.
That's episode 621.

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And Jonathan Howard is going to
lead us in a great discussion

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about what makes this obsession
worthy and what we can learn

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from it.
So if you listen live on

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Clubhouse, hit the share button,
bottom left hand side of the

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screen and share.
However, Clubhouse let you, if

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you want to join us live on the
video, you can go to

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podcastmorningchat.com/join us.
And for catching us via podcast,

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YouTube, LinkedIn, etcetera.
Please share this episode with a

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fellow podcaster.
Now give me about 30 seconds and

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we'll get things going.
I just want to thank you for

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being here today.
Well, well, good morning,

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everybody.
Again, welcome to the podcasting

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morning Chat.
Thank you so much for being

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here.
I'm your host for today, Ralph

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Estep Junior filling in for Mark
Ronic and Curry on stage with

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me, our producer Ashley Feller.
We've got Jonathan Howard, BC

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babbles, Dr. Faye, Matthew
Bliss, Nick Naubach and Ty

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tutoring AKA Nikki.
So we're going to get started

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today on an obsession worthy
podcast.

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This is no, excuse me, no such
thing as fish.

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Thank you, Jonathan.
It's a great title.

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But Jonathan, I'm going to go
ahead and turn over the reins to

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you, my friend, and you can take
us down the road of no such

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thing as fish.
Just kind of as a quick

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reminder, we do this as a way to
look at other podcasts and see

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what we can take from them and
use in our own podcast to make

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them a little bit better, a
little bit more obsession

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worthy.
And that's what we're doing

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today.
We are taking a look at No Such

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Thing as a fish.
I believe it was episode 621.

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And it is no such thing as
space, where space eggs, I

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believe is what we're talking
about here, episode 621.

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But the concept of the show is
that for smart and I lightly say

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weirdos, bring one really
interesting fact to the

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conversation and it becomes a
really entertaining kind of

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variety show of a conversation.
The pace never flatlines.

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It's always, you know, 1 fact
per person gives it a clear

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lane, and there's no confusion
as to what's going to happen

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during the episode.
And then every fact that's

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brought gets kind of poked,
teased, upgraded, or there's

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like debate around it.
So that creates some momentum.

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Before we dive into the
conversation that this podcast,

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I want to highlight some of the
universal doorways that are used

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throughout the podcast.
And these are things that

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everybody cares about, which is
humans are absurd #1 all our

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systems are broken.
So bureaucracy, history, science

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and language, you were
confidently wrong.

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Which is another one of those
fun universal doorways or this

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detail changes the entire
picture.

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So those are kind of the four
topic, you know, main ideas that

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they use throughout the podcast
that we can all relate with.

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And Jonathan, I just want to
interject something, you know,

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every week I I try to listen to
the whole Obsession Worthy

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podcast.
I mean, this one had me hooked

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from the beginning.
It was just a really cool

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concept.
I was trying to multitask and I

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had to stop multitasking because
I want to hear what they're

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going to say.
It was really engaging.

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And that was the thing about
this one.

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And I hope everybody gets a
chance to listen to if they

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haven't listened to it already,
because it is super engaging.

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And you're you're right about
that doorway.

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And that was the coolest thing
anyway.

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I didn't want to interrupt you
right there mid thought

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Jonathan, but it was a really
cool episode.

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Quite all right, I'm going to
have to stop giving obsession

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worthy podcast because you keep
having to stop doing your

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multitasking.
So this episode there's a guest

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slot, He adds some novelty and
some dynamic to it to the

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episode.
There's a few topic lanes.

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One is supercomputers, cranes,
silica gel, which I personally

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enjoyed.
The silica gel one I found

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hilarious, but it really signals
A curated fact menu, not random

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things happening.
And the pacing is built in

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because the format cycles and it
goes from banter to fact drop to

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a bunch of people rifting and
then they pivot and repeat.

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So the whole structure of this
podcast really forces the

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momentum and keeps people going
and listening.

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So we're going to do a quick
three clip rundown today of what

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makes the podcast episode
obsession worthy.

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I'll go through some of the
obsession worthy things towards

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the end, but then we're going to
do a slightly different thing

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inspired by this podcast.
Let's start with the setup and

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the first insane fact for this
podcast.

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Phones with our four favorite
facts from the last seven days

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and in a particular order.
Here we go, starting with fact

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#1 and that is James.
OK, my fact this week is that

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when the father of
supercomputing, Seymour Cray,

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got stuck on a problem, he would
go into tunnels he built under

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his house and speak to elves.
What kind of guy?

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Yeah, so this is a guy called
Seymour Cray.

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He built some of the first
supercomputers.

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And according to one of his
colleagues, who's John Roll

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Wagon, Craig said that when he
got stuck in a problem, he'd go

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under there and the elves come
with the solutions to his

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problems.
Yeah, why it's certainly true is

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that he was brilliant at sort of
getting a computer problem,

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going away, just thinking about
it, and then getting the answer.

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Yeah, so it's an interesting
story because it's sort of, he

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had such weird myths about him.
Did he really talk to elves?

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Was he messing with his friend?
There was a story that he built

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his own boat, and at the end of
every year he would burn the

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boat and then he would build a
new boat the next year because

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he loved building things and he
loved creating a new thing.

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On the blank page, I heard that
he burned a boat just because

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he'd built a new one.
It starts out with saying he

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would build supercomputers and
talk to elves in the tunnels

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underneath his house.
And the fact is that he was

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building the supercomputers, and
that creates the structure of

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this podcast.
And the elves in the tunnels is

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contributes to the chaos of
what's happening during this

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clip.
They didn't hook you with like

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supercomputer computing history
because that would be boring.

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They really hooked you with this
weird visual of a genius

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crawling into his tunnels under
his house, talking to elves.

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And your brain is picturing this
entire thing as we kind of

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highlight it.
And that's what creates the

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obsession in this podcast is
that unique visual that you're

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getting of a mad scientist kind
of crawling into tunnels under

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his house, speaking with random
little elves.

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And I pictured the elves in the
tunnel speaking with him, so

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that creates a little bit of the
obsession there.

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But definitely if anybody else
has anything they want to share

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on this one, I got some other
stuff, but I don't see the

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clubhouse room.
Go ahead, Matthew, you have a

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comment to make.
I've always enjoyed listening to

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these episodes for all the
reasons you talk about,

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Jonathan.
And then the key thing I think,

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to note from the clip, kind of
practicalizing what you've

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managed to academically put in a
really good sentence at the

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start, Jonathan, is that this is
just the beginning of how their

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conversations progress.
It's a little bit chaotic, but

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they like to tie amusing trivia
facts to each other in a chain.

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So it almost makes sense in
terms of the progression.

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But the thing that you didn't
mention is that the people who

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are the usual hosts for this,
they're connected to a lot of

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other creators and comedians in
the space who know lots of

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stuff.
But these guys were the

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comedians who did the research
for the TV show Qi in the UK for

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a long time.
It was first hosted by Stephen

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Fry.
And I can't remember the name of

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the host now, but that was a
show where you had two competing

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sets of three panelists who were
famous people who would just

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kind of go back and forth
discussing facts and trivia.

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And no Such Thing as a Fish was
a a place for the researchers

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who are comedians to kind of
unpack even more facts that they

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get.
And God, some of the facts that

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they talk about are really weird
and interesting.

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As you listen to further facts
along, I'm sure you've got clips

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of it, Jonathan.
You'll hear them start to back

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reference old facts as jokes and
connecting the ideas together.

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Like you'll even hear they
mentioned Seymour Cray here.

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But then they talk about cranes
and you start to think, oh,

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maybe their prompt was just like
a single word and they're like

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wrapping facts around it.
It's a really well done show and

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I find it incredibly hilarious.
In 5 minutes a lot happens.

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Like how is this supercomputer
defined?

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How in the US we built a
supercomputer made of 100 plus

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PlayStation Threes because it
was cheaper.

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How the International Space
Station cools itself and that

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the hometown of Jack Dawson is
the same as the office of the

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supercomputer king was there.
So it's kind of controlled

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chaos.
In 5 minutes you get a whole lot

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of facts and it's really well
done because it doesn't feel

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like complete chaos.
It feels like it's flowing and

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you're getting interesting
things and you feel a little bit

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just a little bit smarter having
listened to do it.

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And you're learning the whole
time, which I think is one of

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the coolest things because, like
I said, it took me away from

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what I was doing.
And I had to listen to this

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because I was like, oh, this
stuff I didn't even know.

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And to learn stuff you don't
know, especially at 53 years

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old, is a really cool thing,
dude.

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You know, I thought that was
really cool.

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No.
And the way they engaged it, you

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know, the way they just had this
sort of banter between each

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other, sometimes it was hard to
pick up.

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The dialect was a little bit
complicated at times, catching

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the the accents were a little
strong, but I managed to hang in

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there.
So they lead with, you know,

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father supercomputing, which
signals that it's a real topic,

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but they add in the elves, which
signals fun.

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And that's the exact combo that
makes this podcast super binge

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able because it's smart, but
it's never too serious.

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It's never self, you know, like,
oh, we're better than all of you

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because we know more than you
kind of a podcast.

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You actually makes it relatable,
binge able and still smart.

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And then they're mid
conversation about

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supercomputers and how they and
you know how the International

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Space Station cools itself when
Andy blurts out space sausage.

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So that's our next clip.
Could we cook something with

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radiation in space and then that
comes back to Earth?

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I guess so, yeah.
I've just had an idea, that's

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all.
I'm just going to write to Bezos

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after this.
Andrew's space sausage.

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I'm drinking space sausage.
Well, when space SpaceX is

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straight there, SpaceX.
Oh.

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My God, I don't want to deal
with masking space sausage.

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You send the satellite up
surrounded by a thick layer of

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meat, right?
It's like a Scotch egg, giant

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Scotch egg.
And as it cooks, it drops off

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and comes back to us when it's
cooked.

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How does it not burn on reentry?
We can.

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We'll solve this down the line.
I'm asking for $100 million.

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So, right.
Just bad dudes.

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Just quickly on Seymour Cray.
He was born and eventually set

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up his offices in a place called
Chippewa Falls in Wisconsin.

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And that is Chippewa Falls is
where Jack from Titanic was

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actually born, although when it
happened, the lake wasn't

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actually there.
So Jack Titanic was born in

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Chippewa Falls.
That's completely random fact

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that came out of that.
So, but this is like smart

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friends kind of derailing into
the absurdity.

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And that gives you an instant
understanding of the entire vibe

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of the show.
If you listen to just this clip,

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you know exactly what the show
is going to be like.

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There's going to be smart people
talking about stuff, and there's

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going to be moments of absolute
absurdity, which allows the

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listener to learn and laugh.
But your brain remembers it

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because it's attached to this
whole scene of, you know, a

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00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,880
satellite going up, you know,
wrapped in meat.

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00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,720
It's an absurd visual, but
you're going to remember it now.

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In the current era, especially
on social media, you need to

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entertain to capture attention,
and Fish is a perfect example of

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00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:38,920
this.
The way that they're

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entertaining but providing value
and information that's useful is

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00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,200
the perfect example of what we
need to be doing on social media

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00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:48,840
when we're trying to reach
people.

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00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,640
And Jonathan, that's.
Part of everything.

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00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,320
Matt has a comment he wanted to
make.

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00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,960
Go ahead, Matt.
This is going to jump on top of

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00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,320
the point you're making,
Jonathan, but the other thing

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00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,840
that I had in my mind that keeps
engaging is that I think the

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that the listener can think of
other facts that connect to the

239
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:02,800
other facts that they're talking
about.

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00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,080
And it helps with the learning,
not just the entertainment.

241
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,400
They're incredibly funny to
listen to, but remembering

242
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,480
things that you know about the
things they're talking about

243
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,840
allows you to add your own kind
of internal dialogue with them

244
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,960
as you think about stuff.
Like when they talked about

245
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,720
using radiation to rapidly cool
in the the satellite stuff.

246
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,280
It reminded me of a book I read
a little while ago from Neil

247
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:31,200
Stephenson called 70s, where a
portion of this book was about

248
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:36,080
building an entire ring around
planet Earth in a future where

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00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,960
Earth was uninhabitable.
And they do that as a way to

250
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,400
super cool what is otherwise
environments and stuff.

251
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,080
But yeah, the just connecting
your own facts to what they talk

252
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,000
about while you're listening is
a part of it too, I think.

253
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,120
This is creating like this
inside joke, the space sausage

254
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,120
joke, which Matt mentioned
earlier is one of those things

255
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,680
that it will come back a couple
times during the podcast and

256
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,480
possibly in future episodes.
So it's creating this inside

257
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,360
joke that makes the listeners
feel like they're part of a

258
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,560
club.
And when you're part of a club,

259
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,520
that creates binge behavior.
So obsession worthy.

260
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,880
Podcasts don't just deliver
content, they actually deliver

261
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,600
moments.
Moments that people can resonate

262
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,960
with and connect with.
I think that's an important

263
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,600
part.
Now, silica gel, the little

264
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,160
packets that are in your shoes
can actually become a gemstone,

265
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,800
A gemstone that Taylor Swift
sings about in her most current

266
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,680
album.
And yes, I can actually bring

267
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,760
everything back to Taylor Swift.
So there we go.

268
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:38,760
But silicon gel can make OPA
light, so we can play that third

269
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,720
clip.
And before you go there, I, I

270
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,360
just want to say something about
space sausage, man.

271
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,560
It was like, that is a really
cool thing.

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00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,080
And they're talking about how
they're going to get it from

273
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,320
space and back and forth.
And I'm thinking that is at that

274
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,680
point I decide I'm going to go
walk the dog because I'm going

275
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,080
to get out of my office for a
little bit and I'm out there

276
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,800
walking.
I'm talking about space sausage.

277
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,440
And I'm looking up to the sky
and saying, are we going to get

278
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,600
to a point where we're cooking
sausage in the sky and we're

279
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,640
dropping it down to people on
planet Earth?

280
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,360
But all right, Jimmy, go ahead
and hit #3 man.

281
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,520
Go ahead.
You just never know what will

282
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:09,440
happen.
But yeah, go ahead.

283
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,040
You can make opals out of it, so
the.

284
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,440
Cars or the Stones the.
Stones or the fruits?

285
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,960
The stones.
Basically, Opal is made of

286
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:25,720
silicon, but it's dehydrated and
it's compressed by nature.

287
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,400
But you can make opals in the
lab by getting a load of silica

288
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,720
gel, putting it in water,
leaving it for weeks and weeks

289
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,800
and months and months until it
all sinks down and stacks itself

290
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,480
perfectly.
And then you remove all of the

291
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,680
water and it's in a perfect
lattice.

292
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,720
And that's how you make lab
made.

293
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,640
Opals Wow, that's very cool.
It's.

294
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,040
The same material, basically.
And in a different crystal

295
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:48,880
structure.
Precisely.

296
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,880
Yeah.
When you start zooming in enough

297
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,120
like this, everything gets a bit
weird, I find.

298
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:57,240
Like this stuff.
Silica gel was first created in

299
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,000
the early 20th century by a
researcher at Johns Hopkins

300
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,040
University called Walter
Patrick.

301
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,160
And he created it out of a
material called water glass,

302
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,880
which as far as I can tell is
water soluble glass.

303
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,680
OK, That's not very useful in,
well, it's construction.

304
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,960
Quite hard to have a glass.
Silica gel.

305
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,120
Now how many know what like
silica gel, those little

306
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,720
packets, those tiny little
packets that come in your shoes,

307
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,240
they actually have a purpose by
the way, and that purpose is to

308
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,440
keep the moisture out of your
shoes and they.

309
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,720
Silica apparently is incredibly
good at doing this.

310
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:36,600
We learned in this podcast
because it has a ton of it's not

311
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,480
absorption, it's adsorption
because it's holding the water

312
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,800
on the outside of the molecule.
So there we go.

313
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,360
I've learned that also a new
word.

314
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,640
And Jonathan, like instantly I'm
thinking, how many of these

315
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,600
packets have I thrown away?
And I need to start keeping

316
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,520
these things because I'm
thinking I could have one of

317
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,960
those basement bins that we all
have full of these silica

318
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:00,800
packets.
And I'm thinking, 'cause it's

319
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,920
funny, the other night my wife
just had surgery.

320
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:04,599
I mentioned everybody.
So I was cooking dinner.

321
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,680
I am not domesticated.
So I put the dinner on table.

322
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,079
I had made raviolis.
And all of a sudden I take my

323
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:11,240
iPhone.
I'm trying to take it on my

324
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,560
pocket.
It slings across the room, lands

325
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,319
in the ravioli.
And I'm thinking, what am I

326
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,480
going to do?
Now, this iPhone is covered with

327
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,359
red sauce, and of course,
initially I thought, I'm going

328
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:21,480
to throw it in the sink and wash
it down.

329
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,119
I'm like, no, Ralph, it's an
electronic.

330
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,680
But then when I was listening to
this episode, I'm like, that's

331
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,520
what silica gel will be perfect
for.

332
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,560
Again, I learned something new,
Jonathan, and that was the

333
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,080
coolest thing about this.
And then the whole idea of this

334
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,960
lattice spreading out this
little packet of silica gel.

335
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,680
I say the theater of the mind
just went off during that part.

336
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,840
It's definitely interesting and
you know it's OK.

337
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,360
So you're like Silva Gel, which
says do not eat.

338
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:46,360
So it's like the biggest villain
in your shoe.

339
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,000
It's toxic.
It's gonna kill you, which it

340
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,600
isn't.
You could actually eat it,

341
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,560
although they said don't, you
probably don't want to.

342
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,760
It's going to dry you up a
little bit, but it is not going

343
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,040
to kill you just by eating it.
Although there might be other

344
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,440
chemicals in there that might
follow the label on the packet,

345
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,600
as they said.
But then they heat you with this

346
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,880
like it can become a gemstone.
And I don't know if you've seen

347
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,800
Opals or Opalite because Opalite
is the lab made version of

348
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,840
Opals.
You know, that's a pretty, OK,

349
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,440
wait a minute.
This is this little packet that

350
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,720
looks like a scrap piece of
paper in your shoe can actually

351
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,000
become a gemstone.
So that's like an obsession move

352
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,720
there with an ordinary thing
having an unexpected

353
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,960
transformation which will
instantly give the listener A

354
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,840
dopamine hit like, oh, OK, wait
a minute, this is kind of cool.

355
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,880
Jonathan, I just want to say as
they're talking about the opals,

356
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,560
I'm thinking, man, are you
saying they're like, I can

357
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,640
manufacture opals if I save
these silica packets?

358
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,280
You know, I'm thinking about the
people who are like living in

359
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,720
their parents basements and it's
like, you know, this would be a

360
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,480
really cool way to make some
extra cash.

361
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,560
Now they get into it.
I think it sounds like it's

362
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,880
going to take a while for that
to happen because they're

363
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,280
talking about months and years
and all that sort of thing.

364
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,400
But I thought that was really
kind of a cool thing.

365
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,160
And I see, Matt, did you want to
comment?

366
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,240
I see.
Put something to chat.

367
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,920
This is The Fear where you talk
about being a fan of a podcast

368
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,360
like this and why it's so
obsession worthy and then it

369
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:14,120
starts to slowly become the
podcast that we're so obsessed

370
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,520
with.
I was musing in the chat that

371
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,200
Australia is actually known for
Opal mining, that the western

372
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,200
part of Australia I think is
predominantly where a lot of

373
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,160
Opal mines have been created and
it's where a lot of it is

374
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,320
sourced.
So I was wondering if it was

375
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,000
possible that there's secret
silica stores that have been

376
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,600
compressed over the the large
number of years that it's

377
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,600
existed that just haven't been
founded till now.

378
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,520
But that's a that's another
fact, hey.

379
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:42,960
Something else to get you
thinking.

380
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,360
And that's the thing that I
think this particular show does

381
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:50,240
so well is it makes you and, and
I'll, I'll use the term that

382
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,560
Ralph uses.
It made me talk back to them.

383
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,800
And I think that we all can
learn from that in our own

384
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,560
content work if we can get our
audience and our listeners to

385
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,880
talk back to us.
That's huge because that means

386
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,600
you've really engaged with them
when you when you find yourself

387
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,160
wanting to talk back and say,
yeah, but you forgot about this

388
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,360
or oh, that's really cool to
know.

389
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,640
I think that's the thing,
Jonathan, I'm sure you going to

390
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,240
talk about that here when we get
closer to the end.

391
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,920
But like, that was a key take
away for me, man, is what the

392
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,640
point where we can get people to
actually talk back to us?

393
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,240
That's enormous.
The way that you get people to

394
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,560
talk back to you is by
understanding who you're

395
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,480
creating your content for.
And I think that's one thing

396
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,840
that this podcast is really,
really good at.

397
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:32,000
They know who they're creating
for.

398
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,320
They understand that the people
that are listening are going to

399
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,120
kind of be weird nerds just like
they are, and they're

400
00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:40,440
highlighting those things that
are going to connect with those

401
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,440
people so that it pulls them in.
And that's a lesson that we can

402
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,560
all learn.
We all need to know who our

403
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,520
audience is so that we can speak
and create content that they're

404
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,920
going to say, Oh my God, that's
so me.

405
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,760
Because when you get them to
create that content that says,

406
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,840
Oh my God, that's so me, that
actually helps your content go

407
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,520
much further because people see
themselves in your content.

408
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:01,720
They're going to share it with
their friends.

409
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,760
It's going to become relatable
for them.

410
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,680
So understanding who your
audience is, which this podcast

411
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,320
does very, very well, helps you
really on, you know, connect

412
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,720
with those people that you want
to connect with and not have the

413
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,080
pod.
It just kind of falls flat on,

414
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,000
oh, OK, great.
You know that makes obsession

415
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,160
worthy is when you're speaking
to your ideal audience.

416
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,760
Hey, Jonathan, let me interrupt
you for a second because I think

417
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,640
about if we've got new content
creators out there watching or

418
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,640
listening to this right now and
you just made a statement that

419
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,120
IA 100% agree with, speak to
your audience.

420
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,960
Well, if I'm new to this, how do
I know what my audience is?

421
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,240
How do I determine who my
audience is?

422
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,280
Because I think sometimes us
veterans who've been doing this

423
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,120
for a little while, we make an
assumption that we know who our

424
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:48,600
audience is.
And I, and I think most of us

425
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,600
probably do because we've met
the people we we've been out

426
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,440
there, we've been, you know,
engaged with those people.

427
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,880
But Jonathan, and I don't mean
to put you on the spot, but this

428
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,960
is a this is a thing we can talk
about the whole, the whole

429
00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:59,280
group.
And it looks like BC's got a

430
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,440
comment too.
It's like, how do you determine

431
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,720
who that is?
I mean, you can have an ideal in

432
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,720
your mind, like here's who my
audience is.

433
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,320
And Nick, I see you want to
comment as well.

434
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,880
I'm going to go to BC and Nick,
but how do you to determine who

435
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,440
your audience is?
Go ahead BC.

436
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,520
I would say it depends a little
bit on whether or not the show

437
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,880
you want to create is something
that is going to help you

438
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,400
establish thought leadership or
if it's simply a conversation

439
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,520
that you're you think needs to
be had.

440
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,880
If you're in a similar boat like
yourself and myself, where

441
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,720
you're establishing a thought
leadership and you're

442
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,520
establishing an opportunity for
you to showcase what you know in

443
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,240
a particular field, then you
need to ask yourself, where

444
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,760
would I find this kind of
content?

445
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,640
Where have I seen this content
before?

446
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,920
And that's likely going to be
the good place where you'll find

447
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,560
that audience to receive that
thought leadership.

448
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,840
But if it's more of like a, you
know, where you got your God,

449
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,600
what's it called?
Not cold cases, but the mystery

450
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,840
like murder, all that stuff, you
know, it's more lifestyle stuff,

451
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,640
more family oriented kind of
things.

452
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,800
So maybe Facebook, Instagram.
I think it depends on what the

453
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,120
function of the show was going
to be.

454
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,800
And that'll help determine what
area you want to look for your

455
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,640
audience in.
Go ahead, Nick.

456
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,560
I really struggled with this
when I created my show because I

457
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,720
tried so hard to get hyper
specific with my audience right

458
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,360
out of the gate.
And to your point, you don't

459
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,640
really know your audience until
you know your audience.

460
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:29,400
So I think a big piece of this
is you come up with like what

461
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,720
you think your audience is, and
you really hammer that audience

462
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,080
with content, really speak to
that audience.

463
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,240
And through that is where I
think you're going to start

464
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,520
seeing people start poking out.
You're kind of creating content

465
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,160
on a little bit more broader
scale.

466
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,240
And then you look for different
signals that say, hey, OK,

467
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,040
that's my person, OK, that's my
person.

468
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,560
OK, that's my person.
And then you can really start

469
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,600
narrowing down based on those
little signals that you receive

470
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,520
to say, OK, this is my target
audience and this is the person

471
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,600
that I need to be talking to,
not the slightly broader view of

472
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,680
what I thought my audience was.
Yeah, I think that's a brilliant

473
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:07,880
point, Nick.
And let's go to Matt.

474
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,200
No such thing as a fish, these
guys, It's easy for us to make

475
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,840
statements like make sure that
you're delivering for the

476
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,400
audience and that these guys do
such a good job of it.

477
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,360
What you have to remember is
that they've been doing it for

478
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:24,760
over 10 years at this point.
They also entered the podcast

479
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,160
game in what I think is
sometimes colloquially known as

480
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,880
Phase 2 of podcasting, which is
kind of immediately post serial

481
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,360
blowing up and podcasting
becoming like a bit of a thing.

482
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,080
And the other thing to remember
about this is that it's largely

483
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,600
for entertainment as well as
factual stuff.

484
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,680
And I think entertainment
podcasts, they hold a special

485
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,800
space where if you are not
entertained, you're not going to

486
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,160
stay.
In the same way that a kind of a

487
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,760
comedian delivers something at a
comedy club, they don't ask the

488
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,120
audience what they'd like to
hear.

489
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:03,160
Most of the time there's a
brand, a comedy that does that.

490
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:07,480
That's a bit more audience
bantery stuff, but you kind of

491
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,880
have to bend and sway with what
is entertaining for the audience

492
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,000
that you have.
But podcasting being different,

493
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,440
people don't need to stay if
they're not entertained.

494
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,760
And I find it really interesting
that there's a group of people

495
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,640
here who didn't get hooked into
it so much and I'd very much

496
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,120
like to find out why.
But I think these guys have a

497
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:30,360
pre established audience, if
only because they are

498
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:34,040
unapologetically who they are in
terms of an entertainment

499
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,280
product.
And the requirement isn't that

500
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,520
they stay like BBC about you
were talking about thought

501
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,680
leadership.
If they if the thought

502
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,800
leadership that which they're
trying to establish here is

503
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,560
about finding ways to use
radiation and lobbing sausages

504
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,160
into space, it's not really
quite in in the same frame.

505
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,800
Entertainment and stuff that
makes people laugh has its own

506
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,720
little separate category to the
regressive mean of advice that

507
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,520
we usually give to podcasts.
And I think sometimes the

508
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,080
audience just gets attracted to
that kind of thing.

509
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,000
It's not really an answer, or
really it's just an alternative

510
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,200
perspective on the way to think
about these kinds of podcasts.

511
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,640
Now let's not forget there are
two sides to organics, right?

512
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,200
There's the part of us where we
ourselves try to pre establish

513
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,120
where we think the audience is
and therefore where to start

514
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,960
investing our time and
promotion.

515
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,240
But then there's the part of it
where we try to establish the

516
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,840
digital footprint of our
platform to where we we draw

517
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,280
people in, where we establish
ourselves as solution oriented

518
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,800
or as hitting certain keywords
or are discussing certain

519
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,360
phrases that people are going to
be looking for when they hop

520
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:47,320
onto a search engine and trying
to gauge from there, OK, where

521
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,600
are they coming from?
Am I seeing any numbers?

522
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,640
If so, are they on mobile web?
Are they coming from a social

523
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,360
media posts?
Are they coming from the search

524
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:57,360
engine Where?
And then I think from there,

525
00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:59,200
optimizing is a really big part
of that.

526
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,080
Go ahead, Nikki.
I know you had a comment and

527
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,080
Jonathan, I want to go back to
you for the takeaways because I

528
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,680
know you've got something cool
here for the the middle end of

529
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:06,960
the show today.
So go ahead, Nikki.

530
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,120
For me, the question isn't about
who the audience is, it's about

531
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:14,640
who's engaging with the content.
And that's how I figure out who

532
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,200
the audience is.
Because if I try to figure it

533
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,080
out beforehand, I'm going to get
lost in the sauce.

534
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,440
But if I start posting, I start
sharing my podcast out.

535
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,840
I start start, you know, putting
holes out there, you know, all

536
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,880
different kinds of things.
And I see that certain people

537
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,680
are engaging.
Maybe it's more women, maybe

538
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,320
it's more men, maybe it's people
of a certain demographic or

539
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,720
generation.
And then I know who my audience,

540
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,520
but as far as engaging the
audience, I'm still playing

541
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,280
around with that too.
And I really like to use the

542
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,840
markers, the chapter markers in
Buzzbrow.

543
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,800
So if a guest has a
particularly, I don't know,

544
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,880
controversial opinion, I can
post a link to a poll to ask the

545
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,800
listeners, you know, what they
thought of the opinion.

546
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,360
And then, you know, ask them to
choose between different answer

547
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,160
choices and whatnot.
And then I also like to do lots

548
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,840
and lots of teasers in my
Facebook group before the

549
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,080
episode airs to get that
audience engagement up.

550
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,480
And so there's, I'm thinking in
terms of like beginning, middle

551
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,840
and, and how can I engage them
throughout the entire process

552
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,640
before the podcast comes out,
during the podcast when they

553
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,240
might click on the markers and
then at the very end as well.

554
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,240
Nikki, I think that was a
brilliant observation just

555
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,920
shared because I think that is
so much on point.

556
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,200
And Nikki, I'm actually one of
your Facebook friends.

557
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,960
So I see the stuff you put out
and it it definitely engages me.

558
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,240
And I think it's really wise
what you said about see who

559
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,560
reacts, see what the feedback
you get.

560
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:37,840
So thank you for sharing that,
Nikki.

561
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,680
But I think that was a very,
very good point.

562
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,040
Jonathan, I want to go back to
you because I want you to give

563
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,080
us our your takeaways and then I
want to get into our special

564
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,480
treat for today.
I'm going to get to the

565
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,400
takeaways I quickly want to
mention when it comes to finding

566
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,720
your audience.
Well, one, you're going to join

567
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,640
my unforgettable impact
collective and, and we're going

568
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,160
to walk walk you through that.
But if you don't want to do

569
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,760
that, one of the things that I
really highlight and we do is

570
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,160
you make a a guess, your best
guess based on what engagement

571
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,280
you're getting.
And you find 3 of the people

572
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,840
that you think you're going to
be really actually going to be

573
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,160
appealing to.
You're going to find those three

574
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:15,080
people.
And then you're going to

575
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,720
actually find in your audience
who those three people are.

576
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,480
And you're going to sit down and
interview them and find out what

577
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,560
they're looking for.
Because that's going to give you

578
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,960
real insight into who is
listening.

579
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,120
Who do you want to talk to?
A quick tip that I picked up at

580
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:33,320
Podcast Movement last year is
put once a month, put 1/2 hour

581
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,800
on your schedule where you're
going to talk to a listener, any

582
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,600
listener, and let your listeners
show up for that.

583
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,200
And actually, you know, let you
know what they like, what they

584
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,720
don't like, what what they're
doing.

585
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,520
And I know Sid did something
like this as he was re redoing

586
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,080
his podcast this past few
months.

587
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,440
It's definitely something that
can actually work.

588
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,200
That is a great idea and I think
it's something a lot of people

589
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,800
don't think about is build that
into your calendar, build that

590
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,880
as part of your system to go and
engage with people in your

591
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,080
audience and ask them about what
you're talking about.

592
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:05,360
So thank you, Jonathan.
That's a great point.

593
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,800
And I'm going to push back on
that a little bit because I

594
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,680
think right now when it comes to
entertainment, even though this

595
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,200
is an entertainment podcast, we
all need to take a little bit

596
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,840
away from it because all of our
content needs to entertain our

597
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,880
audience in some way because
that's what people are looking

598
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,640
for.
They come home from work,

599
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,520
they're looking for something to
listen to, looking for something

600
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,680
on social media.
They're looking for something

601
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,360
that is going to entertain them,
make them laugh, make them

602
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,040
forget about their day.
They're not necessarily looking

603
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,760
for lessons.
They're not necessarily looking

604
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,320
for for what, you know, what
they can learn.

605
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,760
They're looking for something
that they can be entertained by.

606
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,160
So I think all of us need to
take a little bit of that away

607
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,520
from these entertainment
podcasts and figure out ways

608
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:48,960
that we can entertain our
audience.

609
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,680
Even if we are running
businesses, we don't have to be

610
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,000
100% super.
This is who I am, this is my

611
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,800
business I run.
You can actually be

612
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,920
entertaining.
Matt wants to comment on that.

613
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,040
Just to say that there was a
little back and forth with me

614
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,720
and Nick in the chat in the in
the clubhouse where that to that

615
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,440
point, Nick mentioned that
they're coming from the

616
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,440
entertainment, but they get the
bonus of learning something at

617
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,600
the same time.
And I remarked that while it is

618
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,240
entertaining to stay, if people
aren't entertained, they're not

619
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:20,960
going to stay for just the
facts.

620
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,840
So to what you're saying there,
The entertainment is a big part

621
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,640
of like any podcast, but I think
in this one primarily, if you

622
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,160
don't find their back and forth
funny or intelligible at times,

623
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,520
then you're probably not going
to stay for to just hear what

624
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,920
the facts are and just get the
information.

625
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,240
It's always a Gray line.
It's never one way or the other,

626
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:44,960
but that's the great thing about
podcasting.

627
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,760
And I agree, you got to figure
out what works for you and what

628
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,400
your audience actually likes,
what they're entertained by,

629
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,320
what they're not entertained by.
So in order to get them to stick

630
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,400
around for you.
So I guess let's hit the

631
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,360
takeaways and then we'll get to
our fun little end part here.

632
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,480
So the first take away is the
show is a format.

633
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,200
It's not a topic.
So they can talk about

634
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,280
supercomputers, cranes, silica
gel, and women in science in the

635
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,240
same hour.
Because the glue isn't the

636
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,120
subject, the glue is the format
of the show.

637
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,320
So if your podcast feels random,
you don't need a tighter niche,

638
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,120
you need a tighter format.
Something that's going to help

639
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:28,040
you actually keep it and make it
feel like one piece of content,

640
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,160
not multiple random things going
on.

641
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,160
I agree with you.
So if you find that it's random,

642
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,000
how do you make that
determination of what format

643
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,560
would work?
Because I think what you just

644
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,600
said is brilliant.
But how do we say to the new

645
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,560
person or the the person's been
around for a little while?

646
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,680
How do you find that format that
works?

647
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,560
Do you go copy someone else's
format?

648
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,280
Do you, do you ask your audience
what, what do you think,

649
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,800
Jonathan, the best way to get to
that format that works?

650
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,360
So I would, there's a few things
I would do.

651
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,440
I would try a few different
formats, take inspiration from

652
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,200
other podcasts and see what is
going to work for you.

653
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,200
So if there's something that you
want to do, something you kind

654
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,920
of feel like or something that
you have, that's a completely

655
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,760
different idea, but it sort of
fits into something you've seen,

656
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,960
heard or otherwise, then take
that and see if you can make it

657
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,880
work for you.
And then try a few different

658
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,680
things as we're doing.
And I believe that all content,

659
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,320
whether it's a podcast or a
piece of, you know, post you're

660
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,240
putting out there is
experimental.

661
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,960
So try it and see if it works
and judge based on what your

662
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,200
audience gives you feedback on.
What did they did?

663
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:35,600
They love it.
Did they listen to a whole

664
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,440
bunch?
Did they not listen to a whole

665
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,520
bunch?
I have one of my episodes of my

666
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,560
podcast got 500 downloads.
One, I have most of the other

667
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,520
things around it and I have a
couple that have a hundred, a

668
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,760
couple that have.
So I go back to that one that

669
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,960
has 500 downloads and I see,
what's the format of this?

670
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,960
What did I do differently?
How can I repeat that?

671
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,360
Because it's my best performing
piece of content.

672
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,600
So test some different things,
see what works, ask your

673
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,240
audience, listen to other
podcasts and get inspiration

674
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,760
from those.
Another thing, John, that I just

675
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,760
want to interject though, if
you're going to test, do a test

676
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,679
that's not one episode because I
think so many people go out

677
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:13,639
there and they try, oh, let me
try this format this week.

678
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:15,080
Let me try this.
You're going to drive your

679
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,920
audience crazy doing that.
I think you've got to think

680
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,719
about, for example, I do one of
my shows is a Daily Show.

681
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,600
When I want to test the format
change in a Daily Show, I'm

682
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,120
doing it for 30 days because I
want to see what does it do in

683
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,120
30 days.
If you've got a weekly show, you

684
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,920
might need to test it longer
than that because you need time

685
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,159
for this thing to sort of to
cook and you know, to to to play

686
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:38,440
what it like we talked about the
silica do over time.

687
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,920
I think I do the same thing
because I think so many content

688
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,880
creators, they change formats
and they don't get instant

689
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,880
feedback and they're like, oh,
something's not working.

690
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:47,920
You got to let it simmer a
little bit.

691
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,880
Jonathan, do you, do you tend to
agree with me on that?

692
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,120
I tend to agree.
And it's one of those things, if

693
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,520
somebody's posting for me, if
somebody's posting five days a

694
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,320
week, then yes, they're going to
have to post for 30 to 60 days

695
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,600
before we know if it's working
or not.

696
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,920
If you're posting three days a
week, you got to post up to 90

697
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,440
days to know if it's working.
So you got to give yourself

698
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,840
time.
The more times you test

699
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,320
something, the more data points
you get, the better guess you

700
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:13,800
can make.
And it's still going to be a

701
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,080
guess because we're just looking
and we're putting out content.

702
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,320
Our audiences are fickle.
We're fickle.

703
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,800
You know, it is a lot when
you're dealing with people.

704
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,800
It's a lot of testing and a lot
of figuring out what might be

705
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,400
the best.
Let's hit the next one, which is

706
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,280
of the obsession worthiness of a
podcast.

707
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,800
It lives in a lot of the aha
moments.

708
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,280
Every winning segment has like a
moment.

709
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:41,640
Your brain goes, OK, wait, what?
And then, oh, I get it.

710
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,840
And that's what you're looking
for.

711
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,320
Don't just share the interesting
info, but build up to that aha

712
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,960
moment, that moment that's oh,
oh, wow, I get that.

713
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:54,560
Or that's cool.
You know, that's what you're

714
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,120
looking to get with from people.
And that comes from

715
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,560
understanding your audience, but
also being able to tell a story

716
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,080
that gets people and brings them
along on the ride with you.

717
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,520
So that's my second take away.
I think I have 4.

718
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,120
I think specific numbers beat
vague amazement.

719
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,120
And I didn't have any good clips
of this actually.

720
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,040
And I realized this after I made
this obsession worthy thing.

721
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,680
But they use a lot of specific
numbers and that's because it

722
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,680
makes you kind of envision
what's happening.

723
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:30,080
So you know, whether it's 800
men, 140 horses, 204 cranes, the

724
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,920
coin flip analogy that they used
in the supercomputers, all of

725
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,880
that was very specific.
People remember when you give

726
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,280
them a number they can picture.
So whether it's 112 or a

727
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,800
million, they still remember
when you they give them that

728
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,600
pic, that number that can be
pictured.

729
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,440
So specifics are really
important when you're want to

730
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,360
create something that people
remember and come back to.

731
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,600
And then finally, the real
secret sauce on this podcast,

732
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,680
it's not the facts, it's not the
craziness, it's the social

733
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,120
chemistry.
It's that they're all kind of

734
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,160
the same people.
They get along, they're

735
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,000
interrupting each other, they're
escalating the jokes that

736
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,160
they're telling.
And there's like a reward for

737
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:12,520
listeners who are paying
attention.

738
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,760
So your podcast becomes binge
able when it feels like a

739
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,360
hangout, not a lecture.
Now I have a quick question

740
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,160
about this, but does anybody
remember which obsession worthy

741
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,880
podcast I first said that about?
It's very different from this

742
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,160
one, so it might have to do with
the Kelsey brothers.

743
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,720
I was going to say, are you
going to want a bit of Taylor

744
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,600
Swift in there or what?
Yeah, no, I wasn't even trying

745
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,840
to.
It was the Kelsey Brothers.

746
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,920
It was their podcast, but where
they create this hangout for

747
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,920
their audience.
It's not a lecture.

748
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,840
It's just a place to hang out
and listen and talk to talk

749
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,600
about sports.
And that is where this podcast

750
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,080
also works out because it's a
place where you can hang out and

751
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,840
listen to interesting facts and
not feel like you're being

752
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,280
lectured. 2 very different ones.
Same take away from both of them

753
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,040
though.
Great takeaways, by the way,

754
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,640
Jonathan.
I think we all can learn from

755
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,400
those things because as we look
to refine our craft, we look for

756
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,920
ways to do things better.
Those are all excellent

757
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,440
takeaways.
I like to, oh, wait a minute,

758
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,800
moment again, I go back to
you're talking to the screen,

759
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,560
you're talking to your phone,
you're talking to where you're

760
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,840
listening to that.
So, great observations,

761
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,240
Jonathan.
So do we want to get into our No

762
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:25,240
Such Thing as a podcast?
I think we got to do that,

763
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:27,440
Jonathan, I think.
I think it's time to do that my

764
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,080
friend all.
Right.

765
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,280
So I asked people to bring
facts.

766
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,800
Now I have kind of a set up for
the facts and then we can talk

767
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,640
about it just like happens in
the podcast.

768
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,160
So the fact you get 2 sentences
kind of give you a fact, the

769
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,960
receipt, which is the supporting
detail, a number, a name, a real

770
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,320
example, and then the flip,
which is why it matters or what

771
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,240
it changes.
So that's kind of how they

772
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:52,200
framed their facts as they built
them in.

773
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,280
You get about 90 seconds to
share that for those of you that

774
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,280
have facts, and then the group
will get 2 minutes to challenge

775
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:04,600
it, clarify it, add a related
example, find a funny angle or

776
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,680
brand it because we need a, you
know, space sausage moment here

777
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,080
or space egg moment here so we
can name it.

778
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,240
So I believe Ralph, you and Matt
at least have facts.

779
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,200
I've got one if we want to go
first, I'm happy to do that.

780
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,920
So here's a fascinating fact.
The word podcast almost wasn't

781
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,280
the word.
Early names like audio,

782
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,360
blogging, webcasting, and even
blog casting were floating

783
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,880
around until journalist Ben
Hammersley casually blended iPod

784
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,080
and broadcast in 2004.
Article for The Guardian,

785
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,360
basically as a throwaway
suggestion.

786
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,720
And here's the thing that's
ironic about it.

787
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,000
You never need an iPad to
listen.

788
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,760
Or iPod to listen.
And the device faded, but the

789
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,280
medium exploded.
So that was my my fun fact for

790
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,520
today.
So anybody want to comment on my

791
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,040
podcasting fact?
This is why it's hard, and I

792
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,400
think that no such thing as a
fish make it look easy, that

793
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,200
they probably do a bit of pre
prep with what the facts are so

794
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,960
that they can do some research
and stuff.

795
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,560
It's kind of hard to think of
where your brain would go as a

796
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,520
response to kind of keep the
conversation moving.

797
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,680
And the other thing is they
record in person, which makes it

798
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,200
super easy to check themselves
and their body language and all

799
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,800
that kind of thing.
But if I was going to respond to

800
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,480
that, I'd say.
Well, the ipod's pretty much

801
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,800
dead, isn't it, in terms of a
pod product?

802
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,600
But podcast might be carrying
the colloquial reality of what

803
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,880
might be misattributed to Steve
Jobs.

804
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,200
As someone who invented the
podcast, that tends to be what I

805
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,640
think about when people trying
to define what podcast is or

806
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,720
where it came from.
It's just funny if you think

807
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,600
about it, like if the original
device was called something

808
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,800
besides an iPod, we could have
some kind of crazy name for it.

809
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,000
But I think Apple, you know,
brilliant in that beginning that

810
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,760
people just kind of stuck to it.
Like, you know, people call the

811
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,880
refrigerator the Frigidaire in
the in the copiers, A Xerox

812
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,080
machine.
I think it just kind of stuck to

813
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:00,280
it.
But but Matt, I want to say

814
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,360
something about what you just
said.

815
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,560
And as I was listening to the
episode we we highlighted today,

816
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,760
I was thinking the same thing.
They've got to do some prep work

817
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,040
on this because the things they
brought to that were brilliant

818
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,640
and it was things that they had
to have planned out ahead of

819
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:14,680
time.
Jonathan, I don't know if you

820
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,240
have any background information
on that, but it would seem like

821
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,320
that is part of what makes that
work.

822
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,800
It is definitely something that
work makes it work.

823
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,800
And I did a little bit of
background on some of your

824
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,360
things, but the immediate thing
that popped into my head when

825
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,520
you said podcast was Coca-Cola
and you said Frigidaire.

826
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,120
But to me it was Coca-Cola
because that's what I grew up

827
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,520
calling soda is Coca-Cola.
And that was the immediate

828
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,520
connection to podcast that be it
became something that it, it

829
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:48,400
really isn't because I mean,
Coca-Cola is just Coca-Cola, not

830
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,560
actually all soda pop as some
people call it.

831
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,560
I don't know who calls it pop,
but you know, some people in

832
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,680
weird places do, which would be
another random tangent that we

833
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,400
could go down on that one.
But they definitely do a little

834
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,400
research ahead of time and I
think it's valuable to do a

835
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,560
little bit of research when
you're talking about it.

836
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:06,640
I'm.
Going to take your tangent

837
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,320
because I grew up on the East
Coast here in Delaware.

838
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,000
I went to University of Nebraska
my freshman year in college and

839
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,920
I walk into a grocery store and
I'm checking out and the late

840
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,960
and I had a case of sodas on
there.

841
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,760
Of course, I call them sodas
from the East Coast and she

842
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,600
says, you want me to put your
pop in the car?

843
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,120
I'm like, are you going to
strike me or something like

844
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:25,960
that?
I thought she was going to come

845
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:26,720
across again.
Hit me.

846
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,680
The word pop was just this
colloquial thing when in the

847
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,280
Midwest.
It's a thing, Jonathan.

848
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,840
But you're right.
I, I think Coke is a great

849
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,920
example of that.
I think that's a very important

850
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,760
point.
So I guess the take away for all

851
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,440
of us is let's figure out that
word so we can always be branded

852
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,200
with it.
I think that'd be a very cool

853
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,320
thing.
I'm going to raise your pop and

854
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,840
go to Jimmy's because I went to
school in Boston and they called

855
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,760
Sprinkles Jimmy's up there and I
was real confused, real, real

856
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,080
confused when they asked if I
wanted Jimmy's on my ice cream.

857
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,320
What?
What the No, I don't want a

858
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,600
Jimmy on my ice cream, thank you
very much.

859
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,840
I think specificity with naming
the drinks is very important

860
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,400
culturally.
My parents had the experience

861
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,880
being Australian.
They visited London at some

862
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,160
point and they went to a pub and
they didn't want a beer or

863
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:12,480
anything.
They'd just come off the flight.

864
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,040
They asked for a lemonade and
what they got instead was what

865
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,440
the English call a bitter lemon,
which is essentially what you'd

866
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,880
probably call a hard lemonade.
In America, it's more of a the

867
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,680
bitter lemony kind of lemonade,
whereas in Australia you ask for

868
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:35,240
a lemonade and it's just like a,
you know, a Sprite or a A7 up as

869
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:38,880
they call it over here.
Yeah, drinks and branding.

870
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,000
I think cross culturally we're
never going to entirely figure

871
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,480
that out.
There we go in the conversation.

872
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,040
Are we doing the thing?
You're doing the thing, you're

873
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,200
doing the thing.
We got a little help there, but

874
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:50,760
we're doing the thing.
And I think that, you know,

875
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,480
that's how it works and that you
can figure out a way that you

876
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,800
make it work even as a segment
in your podcast as something you

877
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,520
end with or entertain in some
way like we're doing here.

878
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,840
You never know what what'll come
of it.

879
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,520
Matt, I think you had a fact you
wanted to share also.

880
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,400
Matt, do you want to go ahead
and share your fact now?

881
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:14,640
My fact is that at the end of
2020, someone created a podcast

882
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,600
about silence.
Now, where this kind of fits in,

883
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,560
it's called 5 Minutes of
Silence.

884
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,360
The author of it, who I believe
is an audio engineer to some

885
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,120
degree, Oliver Seuss, who lives
in Zurich in Switzerland.

886
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:33,440
He only created 3 episodes, but
each episode was designed to

887
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,600
record 5 minutes of silence in
different spaces.

888
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,720
He records it in his washing
machine.

889
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,360
He goes out in the snow on on a
Friday night and records 5

890
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,160
minutes of silence there.
But he also has an episode where

891
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,760
he records the silence in an
anechoic chamber.

892
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,840
And I think that's the most
interesting fact that I can find

893
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,880
actual facts and figures about.
Now, if you don't know, an

894
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:03,960
anechoic chamber is built to be
the most silent a room can be,

895
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,160
and there are varying levels of
success that companies have when

896
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,000
they create these chambers.
But to give you an idea, the

897
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:19,160
typical anechoic chamber has a
noise floor of -12 decibels -12

898
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,720
decibels.
Whereas if you go to

899
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,520
noiseawareness.org, they provide
what common noise levels are for

900
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,000
what we consider normally quiet
spaces.

901
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:36,400
And a quiet office or a library
is generally 40 decibels of

902
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,840
ambient noise.
So the anechoic chamber being as

903
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,880
quiet as it is.
And the funniest thing that I

904
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:48,520
imagined as part of this is that
it's so quiet that if you sit in

905
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:54,840
there and listen, you can hear
your body doing its digestive

906
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,080
bodily things because it's
because it's the only noise

907
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,040
that's created inside this room.
But I thought it was

908
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,680
interesting, as podcasters that
generally hate silence, that

909
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,840
this bloke had a crack at
creating a podcast where he

910
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,840
records silence.
I got to challenge this dude.

911
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,000
How do you record silence?
To me, that's that.

912
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,240
That very nature doesn't make
sense to me.

913
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,880
So this is the interesting part,
right?

914
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,440
The, I was thinking about it as
I was trying to listen to it and

915
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:30,120
silence these days is so anti
podcast, anti listening

916
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,640
experience that it may even be
difficult for you to tell when

917
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,440
you listen to this podcast if
you're actually getting the

918
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,040
silence.
Because any platform, any device

919
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,720
and any headphones you listen
through, it may just be gating

920
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,960
and not letting any of the sound
through at all.

921
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,400
It may be adjusting the file for
the silence.

922
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,360
So really, I think there's an
element of trust here that we

923
00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:00,680
believe that he's going into the
snow on a Friday evening with

924
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:05,400
his recording equipment and
recording five hours, 5 minutes

925
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,000
of silence in that space.
But that's why this podcast is

926
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,800
interesting.
And Jonathan, you step in at any

927
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,040
point with this because I know
it rankled you a little bit.

928
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,360
It's called 5 minutes of
silence, but every episode is

929
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:20,440
about 11:50 minutes 19.
Minutes, the one that you just

930
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,040
described, 19 minutes.
But it provides a bit of

931
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,680
context, right?
And that's why the silence isn't

932
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,920
about the silence.
It's probably about the trust,

933
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,640
so Oliver needs to set up a bit
of the space for you to believe

934
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,280
that he's there.
And in the snow episode, while

935
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:41,920
he's describing the experience
of a quiet field of snow in late

936
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,240
year Zurich, he records himself
stepping through the snow as he

937
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,320
describes moving to the space so
that you know that he's there.

938
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:54,840
There's an element of trust in
the silence, and of course it

939
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,760
shows us that not all silences
are created equal.

940
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,480
Yeah, I'm going to say that he
would have built more trust with

941
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,160
me if it was actually 5 minutes
long and if he recorded more

942
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,520
than three episodes.
I'm just saying I'd appreciate

943
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,840
it more if he did that.
I mean, you got to build that

944
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,720
trust up over time.
There is also another podcast

945
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:18,160
called 5 Minutes of Silence that
is distributed on Apple

946
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,040
Podcasts, and that is actually 5
Minutes of Silence.

947
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,600
There's nothing else going on in
those.

948
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:26,240
All right, come on, guys.
Now, Seriously. 5 minutes of

949
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:27,680
silence.
There's nothing going on it.

950
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,160
That's not an episode.
That's silence.

951
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,960
You can't put a A-frame around
silence.

952
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,440
What?
What in the world are we talking

953
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,800
about here?
Hey, I'd like to step in for a

954
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,720
second if that's OK.
No, go ahead, jump right in.

955
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,000
Good morning.
Good morning.

956
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:46,080
After just experiencing 43
inches of snow here in Rhode

957
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,880
Island, I will tell you, I was
just thinking about the fact

958
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,200
that when we get snow like that
and the plows can't come down

959
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:59,840
the road, there is something to
be said about the silence when

960
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,800
it snows.
You can't really explain it

961
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,240
unless you experience it.
And then I thought of on

962
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:09,880
YouTube, that fake, you know,
kind of fireplace that people

963
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,560
watch and that's got millions
and millions of views.

964
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:17,560
So who knows, you know?
But I have to say, capturing

965
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:23,640
that silence during and after a
snowstorm, it's really hard to

966
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,640
explain if you've never
experienced it, but it's pretty

967
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,160
cool.
We had the same thing here.

968
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:33,520
I live on a farm and after that
last snowstorm we have cows here

969
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,200
on the farm and it was perfectly
silent.

970
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,520
And one of the cows decide to
let out one of these moods that

971
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,480
just echoed across the pastures.
And you're absolutely right.

972
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:43,560
Meg is.
I hope I'm saying Meg, right.

973
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,520
Yeah.
It's amazing thing.

974
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,440
I mean, until somebody explores
that, it's really hard.

975
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,160
But did anybody else have a
quick fact they wanted to share

976
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,560
before we close out for today?
When I can close out with that

977
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,880
won't lead to a discussion, but
that I think is super

978
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,560
interesting.
Well, go, go ahead, Matt.

979
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,040
Lay us on the Super interesting
fact.

980
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,880
So my original fact that I was
going to bring here before the

981
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,320
silence one which I thought was
a bit more accessible, is that

982
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:15,000
when we hear, our ear canals are
filled with tiny little hairs

983
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,440
growing through specific kind of
cells.

984
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,320
And the presence of those hairs
is important for us to be able

985
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:26,000
to hear in the 1st place.
So it's not just the the rat, a

986
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,000
tat against our ear canal and
our eardrum that's creating the

987
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,920
noise, but these hairs need to
be present as well.

988
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,200
And when you're in very loud
environments like concerts and

989
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,520
stuff like that, the cells that
generate these hairs get

990
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,960
damaged.
But there are some avenues of

991
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,160
supplementing with magnesium in
specific ways.

992
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,680
Disclaimer, I'm not a doctor and
if you're looking for medical

993
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,200
advice you should definitely
seek advice from your doctor on

994
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,880
this one.
But that supplementing magnesium

995
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,320
creates A neuroprotective layer
to preserve those cells so you

996
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,440
can preserve your hearing for
later use.

997
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,600
Matt, thank you for sharing that
today.

998
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:02,760
Listen, I'm going to close it
out for dad.

999
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,360
I just want to remind everybody
that tomorrow we're going to be

1000
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:09,160
talking about content editing.
So make sure you join us again

1001
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,120
tomorrow on podcasting, morning
chat.

1002
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,760
And whatever you do today, have
a great day and enjoy some

1003
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,080
silence.
Jonathan, thank you so much for

1004
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,760
bringing us Obsession Worthy and
everybody have a great day

1005
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:19,120
today.