436. How to Hear Brutal Feedback Without Getting Defensive

1
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,400
Good morning podcasting morning
chat.

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:14,480
Today is Thursday, January 15th,
2026, and today, feedback

3
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,800
without defensiveness.
While I'm at Podfest, Ralphie

4
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,200
Step is filling in to lead a
practical discussion on how

5
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,280
podcasters can ask for feedback
that actually helps them

6
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,240
improve.
So if you're listening live on.

7
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,480
Clubhouse hit the share button
on the left hand side of the

8
00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,240
screen and share it.
However, Clubhouse lets you and.

9
00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:35,920
If you're watching us via
podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn,

10
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,120
please share this episode with a
fellow podcaster.

11
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,840
And now give us about 30 seconds
and we'll get things rolling.

12
00:00:44,040 --> 00:01:25,480
Thanks for being here.
Well, good morning everybody.

13
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,000
I'm Ralph Estep and I'm happy
you joined us today.

14
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,120
And joining me on stage this
morning is producer Ashley

15
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:36,520
Feller, Dr. Faye, Sid Meadows,
BC Babbles, Alex Baelish and

16
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,840
Jonathan Howard.
So they're the ones that are

17
00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,400
joining me today and I
appreciate their support here

18
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,160
today.
So today what I want to talk

19
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,960
about, and what we're going to
talk about is if feedback makes

20
00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:48,480
your stomach tighten, today's
show is for you.

21
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,320
Because most of us say we want
feedback until it shows up

22
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,560
because it shows up messy lot of
times it's not gentle, it's not

23
00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,840
perfectly worded, and in many
times it's not time to dwell.

24
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,800
And it hits the part of us
that's really trying hard.

25
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,920
So today isn't about getting
tougher.

26
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,960
We could probably do a whole
show on getting tougher.

27
00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,160
And it's not about pleasing
everyone.

28
00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:11,440
It's about learning how to hear
feedback without spiraling,

29
00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:14,640
without getting defensive, and
without quitting the very thing

30
00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:17,160
you're building.
So here's the frame I'd like us

31
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,000
to hold on to today.
Feedback is information, not a

32
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,480
verdict.
I think that's so important that

33
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,520
we start there.
Feedback is information, not a

34
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,920
verdict.
And your episode is not your

35
00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:29,920
identity, it's something you
made.

36
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,360
So I'm going to start off with a
few questions and I would love

37
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,080
everybody to participate today.
We can talk about wins,

38
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,400
mistakes, lessons, and a moment.
All right.

39
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,120
Well, let's dive right in.
Let's start with this question,

40
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,000
and I would love everybody to
put your answers in and come up

41
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,120
on stage.
That'd be great.

42
00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,560
What's the last piece of
feedback that actually got under

43
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:48,960
your skin?
That's what I want to start with

44
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,360
today.
What's that one piece of

45
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,680
feedback that's got under your
skin?

46
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:54,560
Alex, go ahead.
That sounds like you have a

47
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,600
comment there.
This is actually funny.

48
00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,240
When we first started our
podcast we got this piece of

49
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,880
feedback and it still drives me
nuts.

50
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,000
We had one episode or two
episodes under our belt and the

51
00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:13,200
guy just ripped us.
Oh, you guys have no chemistry.

52
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,240
This, that and the other thing.
And at the end of the piece of

53
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,920
feedback, he's like, I'll, I'll
listen next week or so.

54
00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:21,880
It was like the weirdest thing.
It was like all negative.

55
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,560
And then it was like, nice job.
It was just, it made no sense

56
00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,920
whatsoever.
It was a one star and there's no

57
00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:30,560
way you can kind of get rid of
it.

58
00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,760
And it's like, I don't care what
kind of podcast you have, give

59
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:41,080
the podcast a chance to try to
develop because the podcast from

60
00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,000
the first episode to the 10th
episode is probably going to be

61
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,480
different.
And it really was because we

62
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,760
switched who did the opening and
we did a lot of different stuff.

63
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,520
And it was just so funny that
it's like people love to be

64
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,720
keyboard heroes.
So Alex, let me ask you a follow

65
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,240
up on that.
So what about that hit you the

66
00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:02,480
hardest?
Was it the tone?

67
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,960
Was it the timing?
Was it some truth that they put

68
00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:06,040
in there?
What is it that hit you the

69
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,240
hardest in that feedback?
It was the timing and we didn't

70
00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,400
even get a chance to get our sea
legs.

71
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,280
That was the biggest thing.
And then at the end of it, it

72
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,079
was like he said all these
negative things and it was like

73
00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:20,600
good job.
And then he gives us a one star.

74
00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:24,280
It just made no sense.
It still bothers me to this day.

75
00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:26,080
It just, I wish I could get rid
of it.

76
00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:28,640
You really can't get rid of some
of these things.

77
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,600
Dr. Go ahead.
The way that I react to feedback

78
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,680
has a lot to do with how it's
given, the tone of which it's

79
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,160
given.
Let me give you an example.

80
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:46,400
So for instance, if I this would
never happen, by the way, but if

81
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,200
I cook something and someone
eats it and says, oh, that is

82
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,960
nasty.
Oh, no, oh, no, no, no, no,

83
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,160
that's not going to happen.
I'm not going to be taking that

84
00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,440
lightly.
Instead of that's you know what?

85
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,800
That's not agreeing with my,
with my taste buds.

86
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,800
I wonder what's in it.
That's not, you know, and then

87
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,600
they you start, is there, is
there lemon in this?

88
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:16,520
Or, you know, it really depends
on how it's given as to how I'm

89
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,920
going to react to it.
So Dr. what you're really saying

90
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,480
is for you, it's about the tone.
It's the way that the tone comes

91
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,440
across.
And as you said that I got to be

92
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,840
honest to Dr. just about fell
out of my chair laughing because

93
00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:29,960
I think it's always giving you
feedback.

94
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:31,440
You're like, you're going right
back at them.

95
00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,240
But for you, it's all about the
tone of voice.

96
00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,240
And see, that's the hard part
about feedback, especially when

97
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,840
Alex was talking about somebody
put a comment on that.

98
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,360
Yeah, it sort of seemed like to
me like a little passive

99
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,280
aggressive Alex, but the tone
when it's flat words is one

100
00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:48,120
thing.
It's tone when you hear somebody

101
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,640
speak is another Dr. But I I
think you just nailed that.

102
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,680
I think it, it really comes down
to the tone and how you how you

103
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,360
take that for sure.
Yeah.

104
00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,200
Does anybody else have anything
they want to share before we

105
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:00,840
move on to our second question
today?

106
00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:03,600
And I'll just share this.
I know when I first started my

107
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,560
first podcast, it's been a
couple years ago now, I remember

108
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,960
my first piece of feedback.
I think it was an Apple review

109
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,560
and the guy said just stop
talking.

110
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,000
And you know, it was so and I
was so, you know, just getting

111
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,680
into it.
And I took that and I

112
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,840
internalized that so much.
And I said, wow, like this

113
00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:22,880
person is just out there.
And then I realized something.

114
00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,680
Not everybody is your audience.
And I think that's part of what

115
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,200
we have to recognize here is
that some people are out there,

116
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,280
they're going to troll you, that
they're not your audience,

117
00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:33,800
they're not your people.
And you just have to let that

118
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,800
kind of stuff slide because if
not, it's going to affect you.

119
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,440
It's going to make you not not
want to go deeper into this and

120
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,160
keep going.
But there are people out there

121
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:44,760
that want to hear you.
Alex, did you have something to

122
00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,440
say?
I just want to follow up.

123
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,480
I think a lot depends on how you
take it.

124
00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,360
It depends on where you are in
your journey.

125
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,280
If I was brand spanking new in
the podcast, in my podcast

126
00:06:57,280 --> 00:07:03,840
journey and I got someone using
that harsh tone in regards to

127
00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:08,880
feedback, I'm not sure that I
would have pursued it as

128
00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:10,560
verbally.
Verbally.

129
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:15,680
Is that a word as aggressively
as I have regarding my podcast

130
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,640
journey?
PCI saw you wanted to say

131
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:19,240
something.
Go ahead.

132
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,080
I think we did mention a couple
of weeks ago that I did a couple

133
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,760
of years ago do something
naughty and got me in trouble.

134
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,760
But for my show, I've always
focused on the idea that crazy

135
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,320
things do happen in the
workplace.

136
00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,360
People should know how to
navigate those things and I will

137
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,960
always die on that hill.
Now, the instance where I got in

138
00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,520
trouble, and admittedly I owned
up to the fact that I did not

139
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,760
ensure productivity in the
conversation, but the feedback

140
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,160
that I got when I was pulled
into my management's office was

141
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,720
being told that focusing on
things like work, politics,

142
00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:02,000
office gossip, it's unseemly,
it's unprofessional, it's

143
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,280
distasteful, yadda yadda.
And granted, again, while I had

144
00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,240
owned up to the fact that I did
not facilitate the best bit of

145
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,040
content in that instance, my
issue with this particular

146
00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,080
feedback?
And This is why I don't name

147
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,240
names or learn not to name
anybody anymore.

148
00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:24,520
But the fact that this person's
second in command was notorious

149
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,560
for trying to get a little too
cozy for all new female Co work

150
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:35,080
employees while he was engaged,
and he had the audacity to talk

151
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,880
to me about what was
distasteful, unprofessional and

152
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,000
unseemly.
That rubbed me a bit of the

153
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,400
wrong way.
I can certainly understand that

154
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,360
BC Jonathan, you wanted to make
a comment.

155
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,960
Just going back to what you had
mentioned, not everybody is our

156
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,240
audience.
And when we start out our

157
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,560
podcast, we have to understand
that.

158
00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:56,720
And because otherwise you're
going to get beat up by people

159
00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,920
there, you're going to get those
one star reviews and it's going

160
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,480
to make you feel bad about what
you're doing.

161
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,400
And I mean, I always read any
reviews and I take it as it is,

162
00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,680
but I mean, you have to have a
little bit of a thick skin if

163
00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:11,480
you're going to, if you're going
to be putting yourself out there

164
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,080
publicly on social media, in a
podcast, because there's just

165
00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,960
mean people out there and you
got to know they're just mad

166
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,920
because they see something in
you that they they wish they

167
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,000
had.
I think that's so well, said

168
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,160
Jonathan.
And I think you have to develop

169
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,520
a thick skin.
You know, my, I remember when

170
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,360
this first happened.
My wife said to me, she goes

171
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,080
Ralph, she said you put yourself
out there.

172
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,400
She said you have to expect that
people are going to come back at

173
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:36,560
you.
And I said, you're absolutely

174
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,240
right.
And you just have to learn to

175
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:39,800
get through those.
And I'm going to get to another

176
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,000
question here in a few minutes,
but there's going to go directly

177
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,280
to that.
But let's jump right to our

178
00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,800
second question.
And here is 1 I got for you.

179
00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,480
It's when you ask for feedback.
And I'm, I'm assuming that

180
00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,320
everybody at sometimes is asking
for feedback.

181
00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:54,600
Here's my kick to this.
What are you really asking for?

182
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,120
Are you asking for feedback on
your content, on your delivery

183
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,000
or your growth?
Because I think it matters and I

184
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,800
think that's where we need to
have this next piece of the

185
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,280
discussion.
When you're asking for that,

186
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,600
what are you really asking for?
I know when I've submitted

187
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,120
things out there for feedback,
I'm sort of asking for

188
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,840
everything I'd like somebody to
say to me.

189
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,120
Yeah, Ralph, the content was
right on point.

190
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,040
The delivery.
Now, I will share something with

191
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,480
everyone here.
The delivery for me was a big

192
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,160
issue at the front end.
I was big time into the

193
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,560
teleprompter, big time into the
script.

194
00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:25,720
And I got some loving advice
from people that are like,

195
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,000
Ralph, just talk to me.
We know you know what you're

196
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,880
talking about, but just say it.
And you know, that was, was

197
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,560
huge, but it hurt a little bit
because I had spent so much time

198
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,040
putting together these scripts
and I, I want to make sure every

199
00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,520
word was right.
And, and even to this day, now

200
00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,720
I'm sick 3 or 4 years into this,
I still revert back to that

201
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,480
script.
And I, I have a coach that says

202
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,640
to me constantly, Ralph, just
speak from the heart.

203
00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,640
You know your stuff.
So when I asked for feedback,

204
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,720
but I would love to hear
everybody else's comments on

205
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,840
this about feedback.
And you know, what are you

206
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,640
actually asking for and how does
that come across when you when

207
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:01,680
you get it or you don't get it
or you know, what are you

208
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:03,960
expecting from that?
Let's go to Sid.

209
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,400
Good morning, everybody.
So I actually did this in a

210
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,600
formal way.
Some of you might remember I

211
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,920
talked about this before where I
put a call out to my audience

212
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,400
and I asked them to schedule
time with me to review the show.

213
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:23,160
And I got 2025 people that, you
know, I interviewed on Zune

214
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:24,400
Live.
Some of them I knew, some of

215
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,600
them I didn't know and had a
great opportunity to connect.

216
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,120
And one of the questions that I
asked them and the questions

217
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,440
that I asked were questions that
Alex and Filippo had talked

218
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,280
about in a webinar that I
attended.

219
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,840
And one of the questions I asked
was, that's one thing we can do

220
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,800
to improve the show or to make
it better for future listeners.

221
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,960
It's like new people coming in.
And I got some great feedback,

222
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,080
including things that I know,
like the length of the show said

223
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,160
you talk too much, you go too
long.

224
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,320
You know, 4555 minutes is too
long.

225
00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:56,080
Try to keep it at 30 minutes,
which has been my goal from the

226
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,280
beginning.
And I suck at that.

227
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,880
But I mean, I got some, you
know, like looking at other

228
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,240
topics when I'm teaching
something or when we're going to

229
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,320
teach something with my guests.
You know, maybe start the

230
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,240
episode with today you will
learn.

231
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,040
I got asked about in person
recording.

232
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,440
So I mean, I view feedback as a
gift.

233
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,360
None of the feedback I got in
the interviews was like overly

234
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,000
negative, but it was all
extremely constructive from

235
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:23,600
people who listen to the show on
a regular, consistent basis.

236
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,520
And I've taken all of this and I
am incorporating it into the

237
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,760
launch of Season 7.
DC I'm going to come to you in

238
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,800
just a second, Sid, but I wanted
to follow up with something you

239
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,960
said.
When you first decided to go out

240
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,360
there and seek feedback.
Were you a little bit hesitant?

241
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:38,840
Were you reluctant about doing
that?

242
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,040
No, I wasn't reluctant about it.
When I was reluctant about

243
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,080
reluctant, it's not the right
word.

244
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:50,440
What I was concerned about was
would anybody heed my call?

245
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,040
Like would they take action and
schedule a call with me there?

246
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:58,120
Would they respond to my e-mail
request for feedback on the

247
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,720
show?
Because the listeners that you

248
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,600
know, there's some that I know
that listen all the time.

249
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,640
I reached out to them directly,
you know, where whether e-mail

250
00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,120
or on LinkedIn.
So my concern was, would anybody

251
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,200
give me the feedback?
That was my concern.

252
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,320
And I got 25 people, which is
great.

253
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,480
It's enough of a sampling size
to give me information that I

254
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,360
was looking for that could
inform what it is we wanted to

255
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,800
do in Season 7.
And Sid, I think that's a good

256
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,760
point too.
I remember the first time I, I

257
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,280
use pod page and pod page has
this survey that you can put

258
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:31,400
out.
And I remember when I did my

259
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,240
first one, my biggest hesitation
was, is anybody actually going

260
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,400
to, you know, provide feedback
to me?

261
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,280
But BC go ahead.
I saw you had a comment you want

262
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,240
to make.
I'm always trying to make sure

263
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,880
that at the very least in my
coming through on the basic

264
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,200
promise that I make whenever I
open my show, you know, over

265
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,600
time, I'm trying to make sure
I'm consistent and I'm providing

266
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,680
something reliable.
And granted, I've gotten

267
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:56,040
feedback from all of my
interviewees, which that by

268
00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,280
itself is really good and I
think I know how to hold a

269
00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,440
conversation really well.
But for the target audience that

270
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,120
I'm trying to engage, I'm always
trying to figure out based on

271
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,880
how I frame what the show is
supposed to be, how I introduce

272
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,000
it based on what I tell you, I
want to provide you by the time

273
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,440
it's over and by at least
hitting that mark.

274
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:21,080
And so I'm always willing to
look for cues on whether or not

275
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,200
there is a pivot that should be
made and whether or not there's

276
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,400
something lacking.
And granted, I don't and I have,

277
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,760
I think I'm still waiting for
that kind of feedback to happen.

278
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,520
But that's my biggest concern.
Like, am I at least giving you

279
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,360
what I'm telling you my I'm
endeavouring to provide?

280
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,440
So it's interesting you said
that because as I was going

281
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,000
through preparing for today's
discussion, one of the things

282
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,880
that came to mind is when we're
doing this feedback question,

283
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,840
are we really just asking for
reassurance?

284
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,080
Are we asking for someone to
reassure us that, yes, what

285
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,480
we're doing is working?
I hear a little bit of that and

286
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,760
what Sid said in BC.
Am I hearing that and what

287
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,240
you're saying to you're looking
for that reassurance that the

288
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,560
things you're doing are working?
I think that's a fairpoint.

289
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,040
And I think to clarify, it's not
in the sense of like telling me

290
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,280
that I'm doing good.
It's making sure that I'm

291
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,880
productive.
Am I doing something that is

292
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,240
providing the insights I want my
audience to have?

293
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,960
So yeah, that's definitely what
from my perspective, I'm

294
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,520
definitely trying to get from
any instance of wanting

295
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,040
feedback.
Awesome.

296
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,680
Now does anybody else have
anything they want to share here

297
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,240
as we talk about feedback and
what you're really asking for?

298
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,360
If not, I'm going to move on to
what I put together our third

299
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,720
question today.
Anybody else have any comments

300
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:34,920
before we move on to the next
one?

301
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,360
Did I hear somebody?
I think our podcast is a little

302
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,440
bit more my podcast is a little
bit different because we review

303
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,960
shows, so we get feedback all
the time, but it's not the

304
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,520
feedback that you're talking
about right now.

305
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:50,800
We use pod page all the time and
a separate, you know, my, my, my

306
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,240
podcast partner gets killed.
She gets killed all the time

307
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,520
because of her accent, because
of this, because of that, it's

308
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,080
really frustrating because I
don't even show her half of it.

309
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,560
It's just a really a problem.
But you just have to take it

310
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,120
with a grain of salt.
And we asked for feedback, but

311
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,080
it's on the show, the topic more
than it is anything else.

312
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,920
So we're really lucky that way.
And Alex, you just set me up for

313
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,200
the next question perfectly.
So let's get on to the third

314
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,040
question I have here.
What's the best feedback

315
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,040
question you've ever asked or
been asked that produce

316
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,040
specifics instead of vibes?
Because I think it's real easy

317
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,080
to go out there and ask for
vibes.

318
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,560
You know, how do you feel about
this show?

319
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,640
How do you feel about this?
How do you feel about that?

320
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,760
But would anybody like to share
specific questions or specific

321
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,080
feedback questions that they've
asked that have really been

322
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,480
effective for giving information
that was useful to you?

323
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:40,720
Alex, did you have any thoughts
on that?

324
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,120
Because it sounds like you're
doing this a lot.

325
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,720
Did you want to share anything
specific?

326
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,240
Feedback, questions you found to
be useful?

327
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,840
When we do our thing, we'll
watch a show and then we do a

328
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,920
review on it.
But like on Pop page, they're

329
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,040
just brutal.
And I kind of love and hate this

330
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,160
topic.
But in terms of specifics, you

331
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:07,280
know, I think there's a bigger
issue with our podcast and this

332
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,520
is a bigger topic.
How do I put this?

333
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,520
I've talked to a lot of people
about this.

334
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:17,040
Women podcasters get criticized
more than men podcasters, I

335
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,359
think.
And it's not fair.

336
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:22,720
I'm not saying it's just the way
it is because I'm part of a

337
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:28,040
network and it's kind of a trend
and in the network that I'm in.

338
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,360
And it's just kind of sad
because these women are busting

339
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:33,880
their, they're doing what they
need to do and they're they're

340
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,320
providing a lot of great value.
And I just think the people are

341
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,600
just mean.
I'm sorry, I'm not really

342
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:40,640
answering the question, Ralph,
but.

343
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,520
Alex Actually, no, Alex but I
think you are because you're

344
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,000
leaning into something that I
really wanted to stress today.

345
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,960
And that's the whole idea is how
do you keep from getting

346
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,520
defensive because and I'm not
criticizing you, Alex, but I

347
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,560
feel a little bit defensiveness
here from you.

348
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,320
So you're definitely.
Right.

349
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,880
Yeah, I'm very defensive about
it because we have over 100 more

350
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,360
than almost 150,000 downloads.
We've been doing this for four

351
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:07,400
years.
I'm getting 100 downloads a week

352
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,120
and we're not even, we haven't
been live for almost over a year

353
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,440
and we get a lot of great
feedback.

354
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:18,000
I'm not saying, you know, but
people are just mean and it's

355
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,240
just not warranted.
It really bothers me that

356
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,640
there's a lot of keyboard heroes
out there that are just, they're

357
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,160
just jerks.
And going back to what VR said,

358
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,640
I mean, you know, there's a way
to say something negative, but

359
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,240
don't have to be don't have to
be mean about it.

360
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,120
And you know, we're trying, you
try to change it, you try to

361
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:44,120
tweak it here or there.
But just sad because we put a

362
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,280
lot of everybody in this room,
puts a lot of work into their

363
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,480
shows.
I mean, people are spending a

364
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,560
lot of money, whether it's their
own money or it sponsors money.

365
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,520
And I'm not expecting to get a
Gold Star just for putting a

366
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,160
podcast together.
But I don't know, it's just a

367
00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,440
sore subject.
No, I think you're absolutely

368
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,120
right.
And listen, one of the podcasts

369
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:03,160
I do is a religious content
podcast.

370
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,840
So talk about getting nasty
comments, man.

371
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,640
I my wife sometimes cringes.
She's like, I cannot believe you

372
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,240
can withstand that, but I just
listen.

373
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,080
I I know that those folks are
not my audience, but somebody

374
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,160
put in the chat here.
You know, when you when you put

375
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,200
yourself out there, you got to
deal with it.

376
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,080
There's people that give mean
feedback and and and Alex, that

377
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,480
doesn't meant as a criticism of
you.

378
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,320
I totally get.
It I'm just saying between

379
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,560
podcasters, it stinks.
I just see one thing if it was

380
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,640
warranted, but it's just like,
come on, guys.

381
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,080
Like really.
But again, when you have, when

382
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,040
you have enough eyes on you, it
happens.

383
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,840
I think most of the feedback
that we get kind of to Alex's

384
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,120
point is through messages.
The keyboard warriors are

385
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:45,640
sending us their reviews,
they're leaving comments on

386
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,600
streams and you got to toughen
up a little bit and take it.

387
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:56,200
But to your question, Ralph, I
think you read the feedback and

388
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,760
then you walk away from it and
just sit with it, whether that's

389
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,840
a day or an hour or 10 minutes,
whatever it is.

390
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,880
But, you know, try to figure out
where it's coming from.

391
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,280
And if you feel like that that
information and that feedback is

392
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,960
something that would help you
improve your show even though it

393
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,680
was presented in a negative
fashion, then look at ways that

394
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,840
you can improve that show from
the negative feedback.

395
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:23,120
But I do think you got to step
away from it.

396
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:26,640
You can't internalize it because
the haters are going to hate.

397
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,760
The keyboard warriors are going
to go to war just because they

398
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,040
can.
I really wonder if one of those

399
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,720
keyboard warriors that's been,
you know, on Alex's partner,

400
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,760
would that person say the same
thing in person?

401
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,480
And I likely think the answer to
that question is no.

402
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,120
They would approach it
completely differently, likely

403
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:50,800
to be a bit more constructive.
So read it, try to understand

404
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,560
it, walk away from it, and then
take away what what this

405
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,960
feedback can be to help you
improve your show.

406
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,640
Because that's what your goal
is, is to improve your show.

407
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,040
Jonathan, I'm going to come to
you in just a second, but I want

408
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,040
to read what Tim put in the chat
because I think he is so much on

409
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,040
point to this.
He says my favorite feedback

410
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,200
question.
Why do you feel that way?

411
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,000
And put that behind most
questions.

412
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,760
If they don't answer that, they
don't look at it.

413
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,080
But I think Tim, that is a very
good point is, you know, you've

414
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,360
got to get them yes or no
answers aren't going to work.

415
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,320
But why they feel that way.
But Jonathan, go ahead.

416
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:21,600
I wanted to.
I saw you want to make a

417
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,040
comment.
A lot of times we ask people,

418
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,160
you know, we answer questions
for our audience because if one

419
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,520
person has that question, then
multiple people have that

420
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,480
question.
And we also need to take that

421
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,520
into account when we get
reviews.

422
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:37,840
It may not, they may not have
worded it nicely, but there's at

423
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,520
least one other person that
feels that way about whatever it

424
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,080
is that you did.
So look at that and see how you

425
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,960
can improve your show.
I think that's where we have to

426
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,840
look at feedback in all senses.
Does it?

427
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,680
Can I look at this and can it
help me make my show better?

428
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,160
If it can, take it.
If it can't, OK, but think about

429
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,000
what everybody's giving you.
Because if one person is saying

430
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,720
it, there's multiple people
feeling it.

431
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,000
I agree with you, Jonathan, and
I put down a couple of things

432
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,720
that I think would be really
useful to ask when you ask for

433
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,640
feedback.
One of the things is what minute

434
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,560
did your attention dip?
If you're asking for feedback

435
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,720
and the whole point is you want
to keep somebody engaged in your

436
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,520
program, I think that's a really
good feedback question to ask.

437
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,560
You know, at what point in the
show did your attention to, But

438
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,320
nothing I said, and I think this
one is critical.

439
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,480
What promise do you think I was
making in the show?

440
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,640
Sid kind of alluded to that when
Sid said he went back and he

441
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,480
started off with the end in
mind.

442
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:33,840
And I'm I'm putting words in
your mouth, Sid.

443
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,320
But I think that that's a really
good thing that you can ask for

444
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,240
feedback as well.
You know, what was the promise

445
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,960
you thought I was making when
you listened to the 1st 30

446
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,680
seconds or the first minute of
my show?

447
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,240
And then maybe a follow up
question is did I meet your

448
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,680
expectation?
Did I exceed your expectations?

449
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,840
Maybe that makes it remarkable.
And then one more question I

450
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,800
think is really important.
If you could change one thing,

451
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,880
what is it?
Because that one thing, it's

452
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,240
going to make them come out of
their shell a little bit and

453
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,440
give you feedback.
Did anybody want to comment on

454
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,360
other questions that they found
to be super useful when looking

455
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:07,520
for feedback?
I know on pod page, I think it's

456
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,600
Tom Webster provided a bunch of
questions that the folks at pod

457
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,520
page could you and I think
they're really good questions.

458
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,840
But I think these questions you
need to pull out, like Tim said,

459
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,040
pull out that that why behind
that.

460
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,720
All right, well, let's move on
to our next question.

461
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,000
And I think this one kind of
alludes to where Alex was going

462
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,960
and general feedback and that
who gets a vote in your show and

463
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,280
who needs to stop getting one.
And Alex, as you were talking

464
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,000
today, one of the things I
almost want to jump to this

465
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,640
question because I was thinking,
you know what, this is really

466
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,680
part of the critical issue.
Who gets a vote on your show and

467
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,160
who doesn't get one?
Because it's real easy when you

468
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,280
put out there for feedback.
And I've seen podcasters do

469
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,040
this.
They put things out for feedback

470
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,680
and somebody says to them, and
Sid, you know, you said that

471
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,280
somebody said your your show's
too long.

472
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,680
And I remember with the first
time I put out feedback and I do

473
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,280
a 10 minute Daily Show, somebody
said, your show's too short.

474
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,040
And I'm thinking, OK, so I get
this feedback and I'm thinking,

475
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,800
OK, how do I make my show
longer?

476
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:06,520
And somebody said to me, they
said, Ralph, well, wait a

477
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:07,760
minute.
You know, you're listening to

478
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,840
one person and Sid, you
mentioned you got 25 pieces of

479
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,000
feedback.
And I think it's so important to

480
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,960
understand who gets a vote.
Ultimately, it's still your

481
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,560
show, but you need to understand
who's giving you feedback.

482
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,760
What does that feedback look
like and how can you work with

483
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,800
that feedback?
Does anybody want to, you know,

484
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:25,960
talk about how they've dealt
with that?

485
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:26,760
I see.
Sid, go ahead.

486
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,240
This is a really great question.
And for me, I would listen to

487
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,800
feedback from the people that I
know listen to the show on a

488
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,880
regular basis.
I'm not sure that I would listen

489
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,800
to feedback from someone who'd
listened for the first time.

490
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:44,680
They're new to me.
They don't know me, they don't

491
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,760
know the show, they don't know
the history.

492
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:52,680
So the people that I know that
listen and, and I keep a list of

493
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,120
the people that listen and I get
this list curated from people

494
00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:02,000
that comment on the show, that,
that share the show, that reach

495
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,880
out to me and send me emails.
So I know who my loyal listeners

496
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,400
are and, or at least some of
them anyway.

497
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,280
I don't know all of them because
not all of them reach out.

498
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,040
And you know, some of them I
reach out to after they've made

499
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,440
a comment or shared it and then
they never reach back out to me.

500
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,120
I'm OK with that.
Like, I just wanted to connect

501
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,680
with you and you know, hey, if
you want to share more, that's

502
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:22,960
great.
If you don't, I'm OK with that

503
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,360
too.
But I would first and foremost

504
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,440
listen to the people that I know
are listening to the show on a

505
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,760
regular basis.
And I would almost ignore, not

506
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,240
totally, but almost ignore the
brand new listener who's only

507
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,800
listened to one or two.
BC I'm going to come to you in a

508
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,680
second, Sid, but I want to
elaborate on that because I

509
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,880
think you just nailed it.
And that is you know who your

510
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,440
people are, you know you're
loyal audience, you know who

511
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,800
those people are.
Talk to us a little bit about

512
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,480
specifically how you were able
to curate that list, because I

513
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,160
think all of us can learn from
that, Sid.

514
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,360
So I curate the list.
Literally.

515
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,480
It starts with social media.
It starts when people share my

516
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,600
show.
They share about my show.

517
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,320
I put their name in a
spreadsheet.

518
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,640
If I'm not connected to them, I
go connect them with them on

519
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,360
LinkedIn.
I send them a note thanking them

520
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:12,560
for sharing the show and really
appreciated you being a

521
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,120
listener.
The second thing is when they

522
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:18,000
reach out to me, I have a
relatively active community that

523
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,600
will.
It's just the people I know will

524
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,960
text me or e-mail me because my
e-mail is out there and I

525
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,520
encourage people to reach out to
me.

526
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,280
And again, I put their name on
the list of people that I know

527
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:33,360
are listening to the show.
And I just, it's very organic.

528
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:35,960
It's very antiquated, to be
honest with you.

529
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,760
I'm just watching who's sharing
the show, who's commenting on

530
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,400
it, who's, you know, engaged in
it.

531
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,560
And I put their name on the
list.

532
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,760
And that's how I know who they
are.

533
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,400
This includes people that stop
me because I, when I go to

534
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,160
events, I get stopped in the
hallway quite often and

535
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,560
recognized.
And I again, I put their name on

536
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,880
the list.
And because this person never

537
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,160
engaged with me on social media,
but in person, they walked up to

538
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,560
me and said, Hey, are you Sid?
And I'm like, yes.

539
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,920
And I like, I love your show.
I put their name in my phone and

540
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,880
when I get home or wherever I
can, I then I put it into my

541
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,360
spreadsheet.
So I think it's for me, it's

542
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:13,760
important to know who those
listeners are.

543
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,920
Sid, I love what you're saying
there.

544
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,760
Let me ask you a question, Sid.
Do you directly ask for feedback

545
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,480
from those people?
Like, is that somebody you

546
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,280
target if you're thinking about
changing something with your

547
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,520
pro, your show, or making a
pivot, are those the people

548
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,120
you're reaching out to directly,
Sid?

549
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,160
Yes, the people on the list.
Like when I did my call out for

550
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,120
feedback, I emailed our
LinkedIn, messaged each one of

551
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,720
those people on my list that I
have, and asked him to schedule

552
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,760
time with me.
Here's a link to my calendar.

553
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,320
I would love your feedback.
When I meet people in person I

554
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:48,960
typically like.
Well tell me how you found the

555
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,040
show.
I had a lady with the US Army

556
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,640
Corps of Engineers when I asked
her that question, said I was

557
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,320
looking for a show about office
furniture and I tapped office

558
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,280
furniture into the podcast
player and up came your podcast

559
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:04,480
and I've been listening ever
since.

560
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,320
So I asked how you discovered
the show.

561
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,320
I asked what's your favorite
episode or what's your favorite

562
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,880
part?
Depending on the time that I

563
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,040
have in an in person setting, I
will ask a couple of questions

564
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,920
that are directly soliciting
their feedback because I'm with

565
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,840
them in person right at there.
This opportunity to connect with

566
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,960
them on a deeper level other
than hey, I'm Sid and I take a

567
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,560
picture with every person that
stops me.

568
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,400
I take a selfie with them and on
my new community page that will

569
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,080
go live on Monday.
Actually, no, it's live now.

570
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,680
There's an image on the checkout
that has me and all of the

571
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,040
selfie or most of the selfies
that I've taken with people that

572
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,200
have come up to me.
I think that's great and and I

573
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,320
will come to you in a second.
BC but Dave put something, Dave

574
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,480
Campbell put this in my feedback
question of choice, how did you

575
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,360
discover or find my show?
And that's exactly what Sid

576
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:53,840
saying.
And I think that's a great

577
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,240
question to ask because you're
going to engage with that, that

578
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,400
listener, you're going to make a
connection, Sid, it's great.

579
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,800
You take pictures with them.
I think that's fantastic.

580
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,160
BC Go ahead.
Did you have a comment?

581
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,920
I've got a couple of approaches
to to this as well.

582
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,200
So for for one show that I have
any of the interview and

583
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,720
interviewees that I have,
they're already curated.

584
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,960
And so by that I always do a
discovery call.

585
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,520
I want to make sure one, the
person who's been who's reached

586
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,440
out to me and kind of pitched
themselves initially does truly

587
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,120
fit what I'm trying to discuss
on the show.

588
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:31,080
I can, through conversation with
them, pull insights that I think

589
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,280
are actionable for my audience,
but also I try to get past it,

590
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,400
the surface level questions.
I don't like to spend too much

591
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,160
time on the usual, what's your
name?

592
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,320
What do you do?
I like to really get into the to

593
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,040
the really nitty gritty kind of
stuff.

594
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,400
And so when and again, I've
gotten good feedback on how I

595
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,760
interview people.
So when I get that kind of

596
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,000
feedback, I always ask them to
check out the show when their

597
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,600
episode comes out or check it
out before their episode comes

598
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,160
out and let me know what their
thoughts are on how that

599
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,320
conversation has been framed
and, and produced and and their

600
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,120
thoughts on that.
And I've gotten some good

601
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,640
feedback from that as well.
My other approach that I'm kind

602
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:14,320
of experimenting with is where
the content of the show is free

603
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,000
and I'm always focused on
building a community.

604
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,600
I like building up network of
people that I can constantly

605
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,920
engage with.
So my experimentation with

606
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,720
another show is the contents
free.

607
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,240
You'll get the show every single
time it comes out, but if you

608
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,920
want to comment on it, you got
to support it.

609
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,440
So that's where I'm like small
sub fee.

610
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,240
You're more than welcome to let
me know your thoughts on that.

611
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,160
But if you want to comment on it
after getting the constant for

612
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,960
free, you got to be supporting
the community.

613
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,920
So I'm trying to see how those
two approaches shift over time.

614
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,600
I think that's perfect, you
know, And so Sid talked about

615
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,600
the targeted listener, we've
talked about trusted peers, and

616
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,960
Tim put something in the chat
which I think we also need to

617
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,880
spend a minute and talk about,
and that is technical pros.

618
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,640
I think as podcasters, sometimes
we've got to be willing to go

619
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,360
out there and hire a consultant
or talk to a consultant to get

620
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,040
some feedback from somebody.
This I know Dave Jackson, I've

621
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,960
worked with him a little bit.
He always says, have somebody

622
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,320
listen to this is not your mom.
And I think sometimes we have to

623
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,880
be willing to do that is put
ourselves out there and go hire

624
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,040
somebody.
Like, you know, we asked for

625
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,720
people to come on our show here
on Thursdays.

626
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,320
That's tough for them to do
that.

627
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,400
But there's a lot of us to come
here every week on that Thursday

628
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,240
show to just give constructive
feedback.

629
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,800
You know, I, I don't, I guess we
could call ourselves technical

630
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,840
pros, but I think we need to do
that too.

631
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,520
And I think that is so critical
and, and BC I want to, we didn't

632
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,560
really talk about this today,
but I think it's so important

633
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,400
what you said because when you
when you said it, I was like,

634
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,160
you know what?
A lot of people need to need to

635
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,000
do this if you're going to do
interviews.

636
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,120
And Alex, I saw you, I'll come
to you in just a second.

637
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,200
If you're going to do interviews
and you are going to be

638
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,720
interviewed on another show, BCI
love how you said you require a

639
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,440
pre interview.
What's amazing to me is how many

640
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,120
podcasters don't require that.
And to me, you're, you're

641
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,880
walking into a train wreck
potentially because you have no

642
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,680
idea what this person, yeah,
they could be famous, they could

643
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,120
be infamous, whatever that looks
like.

644
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,480
They you might have all the
credentials, but until you talk

645
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,360
to them, I know personally I'm
on pod match and one of the

646
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,480
things that I do is if I go in
there and somebody wants to talk

647
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,640
to me or who have me enter do
interview on their show.

648
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,480
If they don't have that set up
that they want to do a pre

649
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,880
interview, I'm moving to the
next one because I want to talk

650
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,440
to them both as the host and as
the guest.

651
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,240
Yeah, And I think it goes back
to actually last week's

652
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,800
commentary episode on on
Thursday, talking about the

653
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,520
diary of a CEO.
You know, I think doing a pre

654
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,120
interview is a great precursor
to doing that active listening

655
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,640
that we talked about.
And how when you listen actively

656
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,520
to your your guest, it helps you
find great pivotal moments to

657
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,160
expand on the topic to really
find those niche discussions

658
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,280
that you might, like you said,
might otherwise just miss out on

659
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,040
or otherwise just kind of have
this black show.

660
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,400
So I think I think that's one of
the great tools that we can have

661
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,240
is as someone else is also on
pop match to make sure that we

662
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,080
bring onto the show really can
fit.

663
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,920
Sid, I'm going to go to you in a
second, but I saw Alex want to

664
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,200
make a comment.
Go ahead, Alex.

665
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,800
One of the benefits of this
group is, is that we are

666
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,040
starting to do reviews like that
and I think it's really hard.

667
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,360
I mean, when you're talking to
listeners, there's the two types

668
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,120
of listeners.
They either love it or they're

669
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,720
just, it's not their cup of tea.
I know there's a lot in the

670
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,160
middle.
I mean, there's not a lot in the

671
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,440
middle, but it's either they
love the show and, and it's hard

672
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:41,880
to find people that are going to
evaluate a podcast objectively,

673
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,200
at least I think so.
And having stuff like what we do

674
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,040
on Thursdays and or the reviews
that we do, it's a blessing.

675
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,400
I think because this group is in
the podcast world in the sense

676
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,840
of, you know, we know a lot of
different players or whatever

677
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,760
else.
There's a lot of podcasters out

678
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,320
there.
They just do their podcast and

679
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,640
they're in a bubble and they
don't have all the knowledge in

680
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,800
the sense of the bigger podcast
world.

681
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,800
So they just do their thing.
And I think that that's what's

682
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,360
so amazing about being part of
this bigger group.

683
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,000
But I noticed it at a point.
Yeah, I'm and I'll come to you

684
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,320
just a second said, but I think
what you were really getting at

685
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,679
Alex, is the peer group.
And and I think that's a piece

686
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:25,239
of advice that we can all learn
from is surround yourself with

687
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,480
peers.
And that's what I've done.

688
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,080
Honestly, what I've seen the
most growth in my ability to do

689
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,120
stuff is I've surrounded myself
with good people like Alex and

690
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,960
BC and Sid and Dr. and Ashley
and Mark.

691
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,120
Because I really think that is
the secret to surround yourself

692
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,239
with people you aspire to.
And so if you're listening right

693
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,800
now, you're a new podcaster, Get
around people who can build you

694
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,159
up.
Because listen, this is the

695
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,480
thing that really amazed me.
I just started leaning into

696
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,679
LinkedIn over the past month or
so, and I've reached out there

697
00:34:56,679 --> 00:35:00,000
to people with big names and I'm
shocked if they don't get back

698
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,000
to me.
So people out there want to be

699
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,840
productive, but go ahead, Sid, I
know you had a comment.

700
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:10,200
The pre call is a great way to
obviously get information, to

701
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:14,240
understand what their subject
matter expertise is, questions

702
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:18,440
you could ask them.
But to me, the pre call is the

703
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,440
beginning of a relationship with
my guest.

704
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,600
We laugh, we talk about issues.
I try to get to know them

705
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,320
personally, I try to get some
insights of I'm trying to build

706
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,720
a relationship with them because
that's going to come across when

707
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:34,520
I actually interview them that
we have a relationship.

708
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,240
It's not 2 strangers necessarily
talking to each other.

709
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,480
We've got some form of a
relationship together.

710
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,560
So I think that to me that's
super, super important.

711
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,160
I also agree with hire somebody.
If you really want good

712
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,440
feedback, hire an expert.
I've worked with Mark.

713
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,400
Most of you know that I also
most recently worked with Simona

714
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,880
on the relaunch of my show.
And it's important to invest in

715
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,400
yourself and to invest in your
show to get that feedback.

716
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,880
And I sent Mark my trailer
because my trailer is ready to

717
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,520
go.
It launches on Monday.

718
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,560
It's 10 minutes long.
I know that's longer than most

719
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,080
trailers.
I've gotten that feedback, but

720
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,160
I'm sticking with my 10 minutes
because it's, I think, really

721
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,720
good.
And the show has a new tagline.

722
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:17,120
And the tagline of the show is
your inside look at the people,

723
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,240
products and ideas shaping the
future of workplace design.

724
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,280
And Mark listened to the episode
and he sent me some feedback and

725
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,920
he said, hey, I don't not sure I
understand workplace design.

726
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,920
So I said, OK, let me think
about this.

727
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,760
Then I went and listened to the
trailer again.

728
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,040
And after listening to the
trailer again, my realization it

729
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,600
marks feedback was great.
He was talking about for a new

730
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,720
listener, I'm not sure they're
going to understand workplace

731
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:46,680
design.
But when I listened to the show

732
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,160
again, I realized Mark is not my
customer.

733
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,160
Mark is not my listener.
He's not my ideal listener.

734
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,400
And my ideal listener is going
to understand what I mean when I

735
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,680
say workplace design.
Because when I did my in app

736
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:06,880
keyword research, the number one
keyword used by 9:50 shows that

737
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,680
I evaluated in their metadata
was workplace design.

738
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,920
So I'm intentionally using
workplace design in order to

739
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,080
help grow the show and discover
ability.

740
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,160
So, you know, but I took the
feedback.

741
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,720
I appreciate the feedback.
I went and listened again.

742
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,480
And then I realized my big take
away, as much as I love Mark,

743
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,320
he's not my listener.
So I didn't make any changes.

744
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,520
And I and I, hey Mark, not
talking about you as he joins

745
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,960
the stage.
So anyways, now he's gone but.

746
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,000
No, and it's Sid, I think that
is so important what you just

747
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,920
said, because I've had that same
experience and you send it to

748
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,200
somebody, you want to get their
feedback and they send you

749
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,000
something back like I don't
understand this and I don't

750
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,600
understand that.
And Sid, it's awesome the way

751
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,840
you were, you were able to work
with that because you said, OK,

752
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,560
Mark, I hear what you're saying.
I, I respect what you're saying.

753
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,360
I appreciate what you're saying,
but here's why this works for

754
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,240
me.
And I think, Sid, that's one of

755
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:00,160
the, the things we had to be
cautious of when we talked

756
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,680
about, you know, who gets a vote
and who doesn't get a vote.

757
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,760
What you're really saying is,
and I'm not throwing Mark under

758
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,920
the bus, but Mark doesn't get a
vote in this case because you

759
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,920
have a specific avatar that
you're trying to reach and this

760
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,800
is a keyword that works for
them.

761
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,200
Is that really what I hear you
saying, Sid?

762
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,960
Yes, you are correct.
And to my inability to

763
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,680
effectively communicate, I did
not respond to Mark.

764
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,800
I just let the message sit
there.

765
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,200
So sorry Mark, I haven't
responded you, but I did take

766
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,400
action and after it.
But yeah, I mean, should your

767
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,120
should.
I mean, you know, I'm just going

768
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,240
to Ralph.
Would you take feedback from an

769
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:39,960
atheist on your confidently?
You're confidently Christian

770
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,280
whatever the name of your show
is.

771
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,240
No, but.
Not right, no, but it's funny,

772
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,800
Sid, I get it constantly.
And here's my little, here's the

773
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,720
rub.
The way I handle it, I'm like, I

774
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:51,560
hope you keep making comments
because the more comments you

775
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,400
make, it builds the algorithm,
especially on YouTube is make as

776
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,240
many comments as you want
because I love the engagement,

777
00:38:58,240 --> 00:38:59,560
Sid but no, you're absolutely
right.

778
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,680
I don't take that person.
I look at like, OK, thank you.

779
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,880
Moving on to the next one.
Says has a question, Can you

780
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,120
explain the in app meta data
keyword search?

781
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:14,360
Yes, I will do it right now.
So I listen to the Inside

782
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,640
Secrets to the Top 100 podcast
by Courtney Elmer.

783
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,400
I think a lot of you know who
Courtney Elmer is and sometime

784
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,920
last year Courtney did a series
about SEO and she referred to it

785
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,240
as Podcast SEOI actually bought
her course.

786
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,440
It's a 45 minute course.
I listened to it all.

787
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,120
I took a lot of notes and I
followed the steps that she

788
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,120
recommended.
And one of the steps that she

789
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,200
recommends is that you need to
remember that the app, whether

790
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,720
it's Spotify or Apple, which is
where most people listen, is a

791
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,440
search engine.
And so you need to understand

792
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,360
what keywords are being
associated with your show and

793
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,600
how your show's being
discovered.

794
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,360
Yes, Google is important and
yes, you need to pay attention

795
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,240
to typical Google SEO.
But in app means Spotify and

796
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,720
Apple.
So Courtney's methodology was go

797
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:11,400
to Apple and grab the show, put
it in ChatGPT with the prompt

798
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,920
that says analyze the metadata
of this show and provide.

799
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,840
The keywords associated with
this show.

800
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,400
So I did that.
I picked 10 shows.

801
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,400
There's only one other show in
the in the podcast world that's

802
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,760
truly about office furniture.
So I picked that one and then I

803
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:31,520
picked 8-9 other ones that are
in industry and I did that.

804
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,000
I made a list of all the
keywords.

805
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,600
I looked at where I was coming
up and then I came up with the

806
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,120
appropriate keywords. 12 new
keywords for season 7 of my

807
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,920
podcast because I'm trying to
grow my podcast.

808
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,560
I want discoverability of my
podcast and we need to

809
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,160
understand that people are not
looking for a podcast with

810
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,320
keywords on Google.
They are looking inside the app

811
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,320
that they are listening on.
So that's what that means best.

812
00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:59,360
I hope that answered the
question.

813
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,000
And Best, thank you for
answering that question.

814
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,400
I apologize.
I didn't catch it while you were

815
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,520
asking it.
But the other thing I heard you

816
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,600
say there, Sid, and I love what
you just said is you paid

817
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,120
somebody to show you something
they understood.

818
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,480
And it's funny, I deal with this
constantly and especially with

819
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,280
my new show where I'm I'm
helping people with the

820
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,000
financial side of content
creation.

821
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,480
Pay somebody to do it or show
you how to do it.

822
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,000
Because the truth of the matter
is said, how much time would you

823
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,360
have wasted if you hadn't bought
that mini course or whatever

824
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,480
you're talking about that course
to go do that.

825
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,960
We need to do the same thing.
Click, here's the truth.

826
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,800
You can pay with your time or
you can pay with your money.

827
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,000
We've only got so much time.
I speak to it from a place of

828
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,760
having money to be able to do do
this.

829
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,880
And I know that's not the same
for every single person out

830
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,960
there, but you've got to make
that decision, Sid.

831
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,120
Is that really what you're
saying is you made a decision

832
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,320
that look, I, I need to know how
to do this and I need to know

833
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,160
how to do this effectively, so
I'm going to pay somebody to

834
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,000
show me how to do that.
Is that what you're getting at,

835
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,240
Sid?
Yes, that is correct.

836
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,840
I had never heard of this before
until I she talked about it one

837
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,600
day.
I discovered her at Pod Fest

838
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,440
movement and I listened to her
talk at Pop Fest movement.

839
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,280
So then I went started listening
to her podcast.

840
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:14,240
Her name Bez is Courtney Elmer
Elmer and her show is insider

841
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:19,040
secrets to a top 100 podcast.
And so she did you know her

842
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,760
episodes are relatively short.
She did a couple of episodes

843
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,880
about this research.
I would have never known this

844
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:30,560
existed.
This podcast, SCOPSEO, I would

845
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,720
have never known it existed.
I would have never thought about

846
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:34,400
it until I heard her talk about
it.

847
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,840
And then because my focus in
2026 is growing my show.

848
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,000
I have 10 sponsors that have
gotten me almost to my goal of

849
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:47,600
dollar goal of sponsorships and
I need to make sure my show

850
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,000
grows.
So I am focused on how do we get

851
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,320
more downloads, How do we get
more reach and discoverability

852
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,880
of my show is important.
And so now that I did this and

853
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,000
so I, she, she talked about the
course on her podcast.

854
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,080
It was $150.00.
It was 45 minutes.

855
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,240
I took tons of notes.
And then immediately after that,

856
00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:08,360
I took action.
I immediately took action.

857
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,560
I opened up a spreadsheet, did
it open up chat.

858
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,080
GPD did everything that she
said.

859
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,920
And I was amazed at what I
learned about where my show is

860
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,280
showing up and where my show
wasn't so that I could actually

861
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,800
take this necessary steps to
improve it for Season 7.

862
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,080
I mean, I rewrote the footer.
I rewrote that the entire

863
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,040
description.
I made sure all the keywords or

864
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,640
most of the keywords are in
there so that we get picked up.

865
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,120
I'm saying she talks about all
this.

866
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,280
I'm saying the keywords like I
say, welcome back or welcome to

867
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,760
the trend report your inside
look at the people, products and

868
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,160
ideas shaping the future of
workplace design.

869
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,840
That is now how I open up the
show because then that goes into

870
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,520
the transcript and the
transcript gets put on my

871
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:52,960
website.
So guess who picks up the

872
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,960
transcript?
Google picks up the transcript.

873
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,040
I use words like workplace
design.

874
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,080
So then it's going to be picked
up inside the player.

875
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,360
So I mean, you guys know I spent
a ton of time doing this, but

876
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,440
yes, I invested the $150.00
because I I know what my goal is

877
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,880
for my show in 2026.
And now I'm rambling so I'll be

878
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,760
quiet.
No, Sid, I think that's awesome.

879
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,360
And you actually pivoted to the
final question I wanted to ask

880
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,200
today because I want to give
some practical advice.

881
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,120
And Sid, you just nailed it with
some great practical advice.

882
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,560
And honestly, Sid, you shared
something I didn't even know

883
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,760
about.
So my next and final question

884
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,640
for today was one, What's one
piece of feedback you can test

885
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,280
for the next three episodes
without rebuilding your whole

886
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,040
show?
Because as I was planning for

887
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,480
today, I said, you know, it's
real easy to get feedback and

888
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,320
then say, well, I'm just going
to start over.

889
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,800
This show's not working.
So how do you, you know, what do

890
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,520
you measure?
Do you look at retention?

891
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,360
Do you look at comments, DMS or
how do you do this?

892
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,120
Anybody want to share anything
that that they've tried after

893
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,840
getting some feedback and, and
how did you measure the

894
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,160
effectiveness of that feedback?
I'm certainly open to any ideas

895
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,520
or things that anybody here has
used that has worked.

896
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,440
I look at 3 predominant things.
Obviously, I look at downloads.

897
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,000
That's important.
I look at consumption rate

898
00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:03,800
because that tells me about the
length of the show without

899
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,440
anybody telling me about the
length of the show, right?

900
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:06,920
That tells me how long they're
listening.

901
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,200
And then the third thing I look
at is social media engagement.

902
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:11,920
Are they commenting or sharing
the episode?

903
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,960
Are they sharing their thoughts
about it or, you know, in a

904
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,120
comment or they publicly share
it with their other people?

905
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:21,320
Those are the three things that
I look at to see to measure

906
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,120
right now, to measure the
success of the show.

907
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:25,640
I just hired a marketing
coordinator.

908
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:30,160
She starts on Monday.
She's podcast specific and she's

909
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,960
going to help me with other
analytics so that I can measure

910
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,960
the growth of the show and that
we can report the growth of the

911
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,760
show to our sponsors.
I think that's so important,

912
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,400
Sid, because we have to, you
know, it's one thing to know

913
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,720
what we want to do.
It's another thing, and my coach

914
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:47,080
says this to me all the time.
He says how do you measure that,

915
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,600
Ralph?
You know, in accounting that I

916
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,560
work in everyday measurements,
simple.

917
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,080
I mean, we can look at dollars
and cents.

918
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,720
But Sid, I love where you're
going with this because you're

919
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,280
putting metrics out there that
you are going to measure that

920
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,960
you can say, is this working, Is
this not working?

921
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,240
And I think that is a huge thing
that you can do.

922
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,000
Does anybody else want to share
anything before we start to wrap

923
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,960
things up today?
I'm going to answer D Rs

924
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,520
question.
No, DRI do not have an affiliate

925
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,360
link to that and you have to go
back several episodes where

926
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,720
she's talking about podcast SEO
and in the show notes is a link

927
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,120
to that course.
And Dave?

928
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,280
Just not find it.
If I can go find it later today,

929
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,320
I'll put it in the Facebook
Messenger chat, OK?

930
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:27,280
Great.
Thanks.

931
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,120
I appreciate it.
And Dave, just put something in

932
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:31,520
the chat.
I think we should visit a little

933
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,880
bit here and say don't solely
trust your hosting site data.

934
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,960
Monitor your Apple, Spotify,
YouTube if you're on there.

935
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,160
Your hosting site may only see
high level general data.

936
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,240
Has anyone else experienced that
as well?

937
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,520
I'm not sure that I 100%
understand where Dave is going

938
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:46,520
to.
I think he's what he's saying is

939
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:49,360
like, I use Captivate for my
shows and I'm looking at the

940
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,320
data there.
But has anyone else found

941
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:52,920
something else that's better to
use?

942
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,240
Go ahead BC.
Well, I was going to say I've

943
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:58,280
not seen that specifically with
podcasting, but I have seen that

944
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,800
with say, schedulers.
A lot of times when you

945
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:06,280
conglomerate different data from
and into one space, the numbers

946
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,560
are not always accurate.
So to his point, be sure to

947
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,760
check out more local analytics
to the different streaming

948
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,600
platform because I I agree with
that.

949
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,360
Sid, correct me if I'm wrong,
but I didn't hear you word.

950
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,160
I didn't hear you say the word
download.

951
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,040
I heard what you said was
engagement retention.

952
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,800
And I think it's real easy,
especially for new podcasters to

953
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,960
get stuck on that number.
I know when I first started,

954
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,040
man, I had like 12 downloads and
I was like, why am I doing this?

955
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,640
And somebody said to me, Ralph,
no, don't go by that.

956
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,680
Yeah, that's that's one piece of
measurement.

957
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:37,760
But that doesn't tell the whole
story.

958
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,840
Said, is that what you're the
the the the metrics you're

959
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,040
using?
Are things besides downloads,

960
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,600
correct?
I look at them and they're

961
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:48,800
visible and visible number of
growth.

962
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,440
So this month, you know, we got
5000 downloads, which we don't,

963
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,400
but next month we got 6000
downloads.

964
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:58,000
That's that's just show, that's
that shows the show is growing.

965
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,280
But to me it's more about how
are they engaging?

966
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:02,800
You're right.
How are they engaging?

967
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,040
Is the show being shared?
Because we have to remember, I

968
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,280
mean, the best way to grow our
show is through word of mouth

969
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,320
advertising.
And that's when people share

970
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,560
your show.
That's when people share your

971
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,000
show, whether it's in a
conversation like this, like I

972
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,560
just shared Courtney's show or
it's publicly on social media

973
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,040
when they share your show,
that's the best way to grow

974
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,720
because it's a referral from a
trusted friend and ally, right?

975
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:29,840
So I agree with Dave, like you
got to put, you got to search,

976
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:34,840
look at all of the data that is
out there, take it in, chart it

977
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,040
out and then see what's you see
how your show's performing.

978
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:43,200
Don't forget your website.
So we put an embedded player.

979
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,840
Each show has its own, each
episode has its own landing page

980
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:51,920
and we embed a bus brow player
on that landing page. 45% of our

981
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:56,160
listens come from the landing
page, The embedded player.

982
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,080
I'm sure I was shocked at it and
I had to ask bus brow when I saw

983
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,760
them at Podcast Movement.
It's a couple of clarifications

984
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:07,080
about another one called Web
Browser and but don't forget the

985
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,240
analytics on your website.
Like how many like page views?

986
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:12,600
How many pages like this is
something that happened to me.

987
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,560
I looked at a page and I
actually talked to Mark about

988
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,000
this.
I looked at a page and it had

989
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:26,400
almost 900 views.
And that's that episode had oh,

990
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,880
just maybe over 100 plays.
So I'm asking myself, based on

991
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,520
my website that data, there were
900 people that clicked on that

992
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,480
landing page.
Why did they not click the play

993
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,400
button?
So we're testing the page

994
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,640
layouts, we're testing the
location of the player, those

995
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,480
kinds of things.
Because we had that many people

996
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,440
go to a landing page, but they
didn't hit the play button.

997
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,400
Bez, I like what you put in the
chat there.

998
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,240
You could do a whole show about
analytics.

999
00:49:56,240 --> 00:49:58,080
That's so true.
And also like what Dave said, he

1000
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,000
said get into Apple Podcasts and
Spotify creators and listen.

1001
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,760
I'm going to tell you right now
the first time I did that and

1002
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,120
when I looked at retention
numbers, man, you, you better

1003
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,160
have a strong stomach when you
go on there because you're going

1004
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,880
to really see because you might
have a ton of downloads, but

1005
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:13,320
your retention rates aren't
great.

1006
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,040
And you can learn a lot from
that.

1007
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,000
And, and you know, but that's
all part of the analytics, Sid.

1008
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,440
And I love what you said about
your website because what you're

1009
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,400
saying is I got all these people
clicking on this page, but I

1010
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:25,840
don't see the same number of
downloads.

1011
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,600
I think that is so mission
critical.

1012
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,200
Now before we roll up, does
anybody want to share anything

1013
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,080
else about feedback?
How not to get defensive about

1014
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:34,680
it?
I, I feel like we had a really

1015
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,800
good discussion today.
We, we definitely got some great

1016
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,520
takeaways today, but does
anybody else want to throw

1017
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,400
something in before I start to
land this plane?

1018
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,040
Well, here's what I want to end
with.

1019
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,760
Openness to feedback isn't
weakness.

1020
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,160
It's real easy for us to think,
Oh, we're being, you know, this

1021
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,360
is weakness, but it's a craft.
So what I'm going to encourage

1022
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,000
everybody to do is find that
peer group, understand who

1023
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,560
you're talking to and and think
about what you can do to just

1024
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,200
make little but but make sure
you're listening to feedback

1025
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:05,000
from people who are your people,
people who are in your peer

1026
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,720
group.
And like Sid said, and and and

1027
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:08,000
Sid, you could have taken away
the show today.

1028
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,080
So thank you so much for this
today, but make sure you're

1029
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,240
making that relationship with
your audience members.

1030
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:16,640
That is super critical and said,
I'm going to throw, I'm going to

1031
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,400
throw one more thing and that is
and pay somebody to do something

1032
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,600
that you don't know how to do
because that I'm going to tell

1033
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,120
you right now.
I'm going to go figure out this

1034
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:25,680
SEO thing because that is
massive.

1035
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,600
But I just want to thank
everybody today for joining us.

1036
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:29,960
I think it was a great
discussion.

1037
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:31,200
Don't forget to join us
tomorrow.

1038
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,240
Now tomorrow is, you know, we
talked about wins on on Fridays

1039
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:37,040
tomorrow when I I want to go a
little deeper and I want to talk

1040
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,320
about those wins that you might
not see and I want to kind of

1041
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,440
cultivate those wins that you're
not seeing every day.

1042
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,400
So I just want to wish everybody
a great day.

1043
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,600
Thank you for joining me and
have a great day today.