You Can Keep The Court From Parenting with Christopher Anderson

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia. Today we have a very special guest with us all the way out from Colorado. His name is Christopher Anderson. He is an attorney who is licensed to practice in Georgia, New York City, and in Colorado. He is primarily based now in Colorado. He has a family law firm and he also mentors other law firms. And through that, he learned how to help empower families get what they want. As anybody who's gone through a family law system would know, divorce can be very messy. A lot of prolonged litigation, a lot of expenses. So he helps people with finding best outcomes and alternatives so that they're not in an everlasting

Meet The Guest And His Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:49

ache, so to speak, of trying to get things resolved and come to resolutions. He is a parent to an 18-year-old with autism spectrum disorder. His son was diagnosed when he was three years old. And he himself has gone through having to advocate for his son to make sure his son gets the services he needs. So here to discuss his journey with us, let's please, without further ado, welcome Christopher Anderson. Thank you so much for being here, Attorney Anderson.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Oh, absolutely. And yeah, no titles necessary. It's my pleasure to be here. Yeah, I know. Love sharing people should expect from those like my firm who advocate for them or alongside them. Right. One of the two taglines, mottos of our firm is that we empower families to make the best decisions for themselves and for their family. We empower people to make the best decisions for themselves and their family. As a family law firm, we're not representing the whole family. We're usually representing one parent or another in that family, nevertheless, giving them the tools that they need, the information that they need, the education that they need to advocate for themselves with us, so that we can promote what they believe to be their best interest and the best interest of their children.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

It's interesting. You talk about empowering families and advocating, because studies have shown that when there are special needs involved in families, divorce rates tend to increase.

Why Special Needs Raises Conflict

SPEAKER_01 3:42

And there's a whole, I don't want to overuse the word, but there's a whole spectrum, right? So from what a parent who sees only that the special needs and wants to completely use the special needs as a shield to protect the child from the world in probably an overly protective stance, all the way to the parent that wants to deny that there's any special need at all. And and you know, those belief structures and those experience experiential structures can collide severely. And that causes a lot of anxiety, it causes a lot of conflict, and it causes a lot of expense because then for a court, you know, who's going to make this decision to make that decision smartly, they need to be educated. And so that means that you now have to bring in experts, you have to bring in people to inform the court as to what the best interest of the child, because it's certainly in Colorado and most states across the country. And like you mentioned, I practice in Georgia, I practiced in New York. There's a whole lot of law around things, but a lot of it just boils down to, and it's stated in the law that at the end of the day, it's the best interest of the child. But how do you know? Right? And when two parents can't agree on what the best interests of the child are, and the court's going to now substitute their judgment for theirs, that court will want as much information, as much opinion from experts in the field of childhood education, special needs education, developmental science, et cetera, to inform the court so the court can make the decision that they need to make. But that you know, that certainly becomes a big challenge. And so, you know, helping parents to come together more is one of the things that we try to do, right? Because we believe it is a failure of empowerment, sometimes necessary, but a failure of empowerment to turn these decisions over to the court. We advocate very much for parents figuring out a way to keep the decision with themselves.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

So when it comes to the best interest of the child, is it a very high burden that parents need to meet in order for that to be fulfilled?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Well, I mean, if they disagree, then yeah, in court, in a civil court setting particularly, you have to prove by a proponent of the evidence to the court what the best interests are. But this isn't a black and white decision, right? It's not you owe $100 or you owe $1,000. It's not you were negligent or you weren't negligent. This is a it's a subjective analysis. And so the burden is to most people would say, you know, this is why we practice law differently. Most people would say it's to convince who can present the most evidence to convince the judge that they're

Proving Best Interest In Court

SPEAKER_01 6:41

right. From our perspective, it's the parents' duty to educate the court sufficiently so that the court can arrive at the right decision and to take into account all the things that they should know to arrive at what is the best interest of the child. I think very often it's in the best interest of the child for the parents to figure out a way to come together on that. And so we work hard on that as well. So if you have to go get experts, fine. If you have to get developmental scientists, fine. But then review that together and see if that changes minds, hearts as to where it should be, because my favorite words are that mommy and daddy, or daddy and daddy, or mommy and mommy, whatever. Your parents have decided that this is in your best interest rather than we're gonna go fight this out.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

So it's more about like finding out best ways to come together what will be most beneficial to the child. How do you feel like case law supports any of this?

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yeah, well, I mean, I don't it's a that's a really difficult question because the case law tends to be very specific. I mean, the case law, you know, that supports the best interest of the child standard is clear. But then, you know, when you want to apply case law to your specific circumstance, I want to be very careful not to provide what would sound like legal advice to you know to people who's who are listening whose circumstances I don't know. So, so yeah, we're gonna be really, really careful about that. And just just I think the better way to think about it is that if you're there, that's the lawyer, that's the lawyer's job. And to some extent, take a breath and see if that's really where you want to be. If you're to the point where you're worrying about what the case law says about your case, you have not come together. You have not tried to find common ground on what is in the best interest of your child. And yeah, you're gonna have to look for cases that are just like yours or as close to yours as possible. And your listeners are all over the country, right? So what I tell you about Colorado or Georgia or New York might not be true in your state at all. So the you know, the broader brush of best interest of the child standard will satisfy what most people should be thinking about. And and then my admonition that if you're going to put together so much information that you believe the court needs to make the best decision, read it. Both of you, all of you, if there's sometimes grandparents involved or other parties, read it, talk to each other, and see what you can't you know, talk to the expert, talk to an educational professional, talk to a neurological psychologist professional, and see if you can't come together on what that best interest is, so that you come to the court with a unified approach or a unified approach with some nuances, but not what I usually see, which is like total oppositional approaches by people who are going more by how they feel than by what they know.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

I can only imagine that emotions really tend to drive the bus in a lot of these cases.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

You know, because it is such an intense thing. It is such an emotional thing, heartbreaking, right? You have so many things in the mix, so many changes that are happening in the mix. I can only imagine how that also can be very makes the work even more intense in that.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

I mean, it's all emotion, right? It's about feelings about whether you're you're a successful parent, a good parent, even goes to your self-worth, you know, not for nothing. It's not unusual for parents with special needs children to have special needs of their own, and they're seeing through their own lenses and their life experience, and trying

Case Law Cautions And Common Ground

SPEAKER_01 11:00

to address those issues through this process as well. It gets very intense and can be extremely emotional. It could be filled with a lot of feelings, which is good. Emotions are good. We are emotional beings, but we can also choose to work in the best interest of our children and to set aside to some extent our own personal experiences to see what would work for that child. I mean, it's just a great result when we can do that. But when we can't, then that education and that information and being able to put that together for the decider, usually the judge or the court, is essential. And being able to do that dispassionately is also essential because at some point the court's going to look at not only what's in the best interest of the child, but which parent going forward can be better trusted to keep the best interest of the child in mind.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Now, switch gears just a little bit. You yourself have an 18-year-old son who has autism spectrum disorder and was diagnosed at three. What have been your own experiences when it comes to advocating and best interest of the child in your own life?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah, and unfortunately, even though his mom and I are also divorced, we have been able to live the words that I've spoken. When it comes to him, we focus on his best interest and always have. And so that's been a blessing. You know, whatever other differences we might have, we've been able to do that. And so I'll tell you the story about Gandhi that I like to share in circumstances when I'm telling people what I think they should do,

Co-Parenting With Integrity And The Gandhi Story

SPEAKER_01 12:50

which is what we're doing here, right? To some extent. So the story goes a mom brings her, let's say eight-year-old child. Gandhi did public audiences, and people would queue up for hours to speak with him. And she queued up with her child and waited and waited and waited and finally gets to the front of the line. And she says, You know, Gandhi, I need your help. I need my child to stop eating sugar. It's it's ruining him. It's ruining his teeth, it's ruining his health, and I need him to stop eating sugar. And the story is that Gandhi said, Come back in a month and I will help you. And she's like, seriously? I just waited in line all this time, and you're just asking me to come back in a month and you'll help me. And he's like, Yeah, come to the front of the line. It's okay. We'll talk to these people, they'll make sure you don't have to wait so long. Okay, fine. So she goes away, comes back in a month with the boy, and they come and meet with Gandhi. And Gandhi says, Okay, boy, stop eating sugar. And the mom's like, That's it? You could have done that a month ago. Why did you make us come back a month later to give this advice? And Gandhi said, Well, a month ago I was eating sugar. And since then I have not been. And now I can tell you, boy, stop eating sugar. And, you know, that to me is always like it's easy to talk to people about coming together and focusing on the best interest of the child and educating yourself as to what that is. But it's another thing to have walked that walk. And so I come to that advice for people with some level of integrity because that's how I've spent the past 15 years. And it's not easy all the time, but it's worth it. And that's what it comes down to. So, in that sense, I'm lucky, right? So, as far as family law situations, co-parenting decisions, raising a successful child who has integrated everything into a successful launch. Now we're really proud of him, is one thing. And then there's the advocating for him in all the other circumstances, right? With schools, with providers of, you know, with healthcare providers, with everything. That's a whole nother animal, right? And the truth is that a lot of providers of whether it be healthcare or education or whatever, they just their job is to move things along. And they're not always set up to deal with children with special needs as individuals. And like, you know, and as your listeners probably know all too well. People go like, oh, you have autism spectrum disorder, or your child has attention deficit disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, or any other non-neurotypical things. Sure. Like that that now, oh yeah, now I know that child. Oh, he's got ADHD.

Labels, Medication, And Seeing The Child

SPEAKER_01 16:09

I know him. I know, I know, I know that like you don't know nothing.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Right. They only look at it by the identifier.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah. And and so, you know, that's that's sort of been my theme. Is like, don't, don't think you know my kid, and you know, not and I'm not doing the parent, my kid special thing. It's just like my kid's a kid, and knowing that he has the autism spectrum disorder help you understand this behavior or that behavior better than if you didn't know. But that's it. Right? It doesn't really help all that much more than that. And then so, like, meet him where he is, meet her where she is, meet them where they are, and don't think you know that much about them just through the label. Just help the label color how you might react to certain things.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

What has been your experience then when when you're dealing with people and they're like, oh ADHD or autism, and they're just trying to identify what they think they know, they're based on what a diagnosis is. What are some of the biggest challenges you've had to face when interacting?

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah, well, I think the biggest one for us was that, and we as a blended family, we have children also with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. So we like across the non-neurotypical stuff, is the desire to medicate. And it's not a right or wrong decision. It's just, is that the right decision for this child? The system tends to want to give treatments, take them in a class, take them out of class, do all these different interventions, whether they be medical or educational or whatever, with the overriding guidance for that being to make the system work better, rather than to make the child work better. And that to me, that's the theme to me of the advocacy of being a parent of any non-neurotypical kiddo, is it's not fighting the system, it's just reminding the system that this is a human being. And I know you, principal, you teacher, you teacher's assistant want your classroom, want your school, want your program to run smoothly. But that's not my primary goal. My primary goal is for my child to launch to be successful in life. And I will meet you nine ways till Sunday to make that happen. And I will help you with your desire for things to run smoothly and run well. So long as you help me and my child towards that goal. I think to talk about all the individual advocacies would miss that point, right? When we had to fight on the IEP to have this thing included or this thing not included, it all came down to that theme. That won't help him. Or, I don't know, let's ask the professionals, or sometimes let's try it out. But let's try it out with an open mind and then be willing to change. I don't know everybody's experience, but like in our experience, IEPs were once a year. These kiddos grow and change during that year, and wanting the ability to, if you're focused on the individual, you can make the changes. If you focus on the system, like you lock it in. That could be detrimental.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

So it's mainly about shifting the focus, focusing it more on the individual, seeing how you can make it work for that individual in a more collaborative setting.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Which is hard. I mean, that's the hard work.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

So, what then would be advisable in some ways or suggestions? This is not going into legal, but what are some other alternatives then when parents are faced with this idea that the schools will tell them we don't have the budget to do this? We don't have the budget to do that. We cannot implement certain things you're asking for. Or on some cases, I've had people come in here and tell me that their IEP meeting, they did not take into account what the child's pediatrician said because the pediatrician doesn't work with the school, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Well, so like let's deal with those separately. So the pediatrician wouldn't, I mean, to me that's fairly easy. You bring the paperwork. Like you know, you're you can show this to your school medical people if you want to, but here's what the pediatrician is recommending. Here's what the therapist is recommending, here's what the occupational therapist is recommending, and put it on the table.

IEP Pushback, Budgets, And Making More Resources

SPEAKER_01 21:17

And if they will not include it on the IEP, then you take it up. You take it up to the principal, you take it up to the superintendent, you take it up to whoever you need to take it up to in your system until you get results. Again, always keep in mind that notion that running smoothly is a high priority.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

If you're a burr, you're upsetting that desire to run smoothly and they will often bend to you. There are also, by the way, lawyers who specialize in this, right? There are and lawyers who specialize in Representing you, advocating for you before schools for these circumstances, and they can be very, very effective. For things where there's no budget, that's a harder one, right? Can't conjure money out of thin air. But always remember that budgets are about priorities. We don't have the budget for this, means we have budget for something else, and we've set our priorities that way. But from that level, you've got to be advocating through the school board, through participation on the school board yourself, really trying to change that dynamic, andor get involved. Raise the money. Because it's not to get bigger than your kiddo and say, wow, they don't have the budget for this for my kiddo. Who else are they not serving? And how else can we get it? Like, because let's face it, I specifically moved when we got the diagnosis to a different school district. I moved, I sold my house, bought a different house to be in a school district that I felt was going to be more supportive, that had more resources. And we made that change in our family because we thought it was important. Enough, some people can do that, some people can't do that. But what you and then I advocated in that school district that had more resources, was more supportive. But even in your own, like, you know, if you're in a big, if you're in a city, there are sometimes even within your district, there may be other schools that take different priorities. And or there may be ways that you just need to advocate for the whole, you know, like I said, get bigger than your kid. Advocate for all the kids who are being deprioritized. And or I always say, like, if the pie, if you're fighting over the crumbs, it's not a very good battle to be in. So make the pie bigger. What can you do to bring more resources to the table? For your kid and for the others.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

But some would also say though, if you are coming from perhaps a family that's a little bit more economically disadvantaged, right? Let's say you are a single mom and you are struggling to make ends meet and you have a special needs child on top of that, right? Like I think with in those cases, like when somebody doesn't necessarily have the means and they're trying themselves to make it, right? How would somebody even try to get bigger than their kid in that sense to try to bring in more resources when you have love struggle?

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah, I get it. I understand what you're saying. And you have to. And it doesn't, it's not about money necessarily. Right? So if you're struggling to make ends meet, you still have a voice. And you can raise it. And if your voice isn't enough or people aren't listening to you, you're not alone. So join your voice with others. Seek there are advocacy groups everywhere that promote the needs and the goals of special needs children. Join with them. Talk to them about in your situation, in your district, in your geographical area, what do they recommend and will they help add their voice to yours? Will they write a letter? Will they call the superintendent? Will they show up at the IEP? Will they put you in touch with organizations that already are doing fundraising and can maybe provide the school a grant or a path? You can make the pie bigger not by writing a check. You can make the pie bigger by raising your voice and joining your voice with others. The good news is that they're out there. Maybe 30 years ago it would have been a lot harder, but there are advocacy groups that can guide and add support to what you're trying to accomplish. Because again, especially if we remember that we're doing this not just for your kiddo, but for others similarly situated.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

Knowing what you know now and based on your experiences both in the legal field and being a parent of a child on the autism spectrum. What would you say that there's more knowledge and information about the IDEA now than there was, let's say, back in the 80s and 90s? And if so, what do you feel has changed in that sense?

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yeah, I I don't think that's a good question for me because I mean my gut is yeah, there is. But in the 80s and 90s, I was completely ignorant of this entire world. Right? I had no idea. I mean, you know, in the 80s, I was nice cool myself. And and you know, until I became a parent and these issues became important. To me, I gotta say, I just didn't know. And I don't know what I don't know. And I didn't, I gotta tell you, I didn't spend much time learning about the history of it. I was on the you know, rubber meets road. How am I going to get this kiddo launched? And what do I need to do? And what do I need to learn about what is known now and what resources are available now? And I've certainly watched that change. I mean, you know, the trajectories didn't just start when we started. If you just draw it back in time, then yeah, even over the past 15 years, people have become more knowledgeable, have better senses of correct interventions and support structures. So I gotta believe that that's been a continuing trend. With the current political climate, I'm not sure if it's not going to backslide. If less support will be available, I think that remains to be seen. Now that I've been part of raising a child, part of being integrated with that system and part of what we do in our law firm is we make sure that we keep working that ball forward, but with helping families in transition rather than in the educational environment.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

So there's a lot of ways. What you're saying is be that goes bigger beyond just writing a check. What you're saying is advocating can also be, you know, from what I got out of this, is that it's just, you know, networking with advocacy groups, finding ways to maybe perhaps engage in fundraising activities with those groups, having them, asking them to see if they can pitch in all of this stuff, you know, going in, just the changes made with even in the next in the last 15 years that you're in this world of, you know, IEP per se, you know, seeing how you know things have progressed in terms of knowledge and what people's awareness of resources are.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah. And then, you know, don't I don't want to for leave behind the the political side, right? So there's the there, yeah, resources, joining your voice with others, but having that voice heard not only in the advocacy for your child or in your school system, but also, you know, now turning around to the school board and where, you know, again, talking with them about what their priorities are, talking with state representatives about you know, providing those educational dollars where they need to be talking with federal representatives and the, you know, and and you know, to what they can do to influence the Department of Education if it still exists to you know promote these priorities. It's all through those. And that's where I say when I say join your voice with others, there's a lot of places to do that.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

So, Christopher,

Advocacy Groups, Politics, And Where To Find Help

SPEAKER_00 29:51

where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 29:52

For families that we can help, www.newleaf.family. I'm also on LinkedIn. So that's a great place to find us out. We are well represented on the interwebs, on all social media platforms, and our website again, www.newleaf.family is a great place to start.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Well, Christopher, thank you so much for your time today. And ladies and gentlemen, thank you for all tuning in. All Christopher's information will be in the show notes. And remember, if you enjoyed what you heard today, please rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. Share this with family members, share it with your friends, and looking forward to providing you with more episodes next time. Thank you.