Aerial Yoga Can Help You Feel Safe In Your Body Again with Jo Stewart

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Hello everyone. Welcome to today's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia. Today we have a very special guest here to talk about Ariel Ariel yoga and the different kinds of people she has seen and worked with through Ariel yoga, particularly in realms of trauma and neurodiversity. And she comes to us all the way from Melbourne, Australia. Melbourne, Australia, a place I've always wanted to visit. And it's still on my bucket list. And who knows, maybe one day I will be in Melbourne and attending the lovely Joe Stewart's Ariel Yoga class.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

So without further ado, Joe, welcome. Thank you so much, Sonia. So lovely to meet you. And thank you so much for talking with me today. Also, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Joe’s Path Into Yoga

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Apart from, I know you are a yogi. What drew you to Ariel yoga? How did you get into yoga?

First Aerial Class And Training

Building A Small Studio

SPEAKER_00 1:50

All right. Well, I've been teaching yoga for 20 years now. Last year was my 20th anniversary of doing my teacher training. And I've experienced lots of different types of yoga through my life. And actually, meditation first, because when I was a little kid, I was about six, I went to a painting class. And my painting teacher, Richard Liddickott, was also a yoga teacher. So meditation was always part of the creative process. And it gave me an experience of that state in that way. And then I went on to go to art school. And that was a bit of a shift from art just being something that I loved and something that was really fun and something that didn't have any pressure attached to it to suddenly a whole lot of pressure. And that brought up a lot of insecurities. And I went to a yoga class and just found that it helped so much. Like it helped me be in my body, it helped me kind of get out of my own way mentally, and I loved that. And I thought that, like, an artist's life is pretty hard in terms of making ends meet. So now that I discovered yoga and it felt like it really supported my own art practice, I thought that maybe I could be a yoga teacher as a way of like having a fulfilling day job, like something I believed in, something that I really cared about, but also something that wasn't a nine to five, like it didn't take up such a big amount of space that I wouldn't be able to do my art. But after like starting teaching, I just kind of realized how much more like enjoyable and fulfilling my life would be if actually I focused on yoga. And that kind of felt like my vocation and art would just become something that I do for myself and something that I do for fun. So it's like they kind of shifted. And that was a bit of a turning point. And then I really like immersed myself in yoga. Like I was just chatting before, we started recording. I went to India for three months, and that was a really amazing experience. And then anytime I traveled, I'd always check out like local yoga classes. Like I feel like it's a really interesting way to get like another slice of life when you visit a new place. And something that's not necessarily touristy, like something that you would do with local people there. So in San Francisco, just as a little yoga adventure, I went to an aerial yoga class for the first time. And I just totally loved it. Like just the feeling of being in the hammock felt so good. And walking around all day on city streets, like I felt like the decompression feeling of hanging upside down felt amazing. And like afterwards, I felt like really light and really relaxed. And just that this was something that I wanted to do every day. So at that time, there weren't any aerial yoga studios in my hometown. So I went on a mailing list of a Brisbane studio, which is like the other side of the country. And just like lucky timing, a couple of months after that, they brought out Christopher Harrison, who's kind of a famous aerial yoga teacher. Like he founded Anti-Gravity, which is a style of aerial yoga. So he came to Australia to do the first teacher training. So after doing that one class, I went for a week to the Gold Coast Olympics village and like stayed with all these other people from all around Australia to like learn this new teaching style. And then after that, I had to build my own studio as well because there were no spaces that I could teach from. So I started out just converting my garage. I had to get like engineering to make it strong enough for people. And I just had three hammocks in this little garage space in my garden and started small like that. And then after like saving up for a while and getting permits, I eventually expanded into a bigger space, which is still not a massive space. Like I only have six people in my aerial yoga classes, which I actually think is a really nice amount, so that I have plenty of time to help people if they need it, and it doesn't feel overwhelming for me as a teacher. And also people feel supported because sometimes aerial yoga can be a little bit more confusing than yoga on the mat. Like if you get something wrong on the mat, normally nothing bad happens. But if you get something wrong in the hammock, you might feel like you're getting tangled up, you might not feel secure. Like things just feel that little bit heightened because you are in the air, like not super high off the ground. The hammock's about hip height. But yeah, I want people to know that I'm like right there if they need me. And I feel like a smaller class is great for that.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

So with Ariel yoga, is there a particular routine that you go through with people?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Not at all. So I usually start with a similar sequence of warmups, which is lying in the hammock like a cocoon. So you're just fully spread out, fully supported. And I start with physical warmups that are also about proprioception. So start moving from the hips just a little side to side, moving from the shoulders just a little side to side, and then arms and legs stretch out and moving from the hands and the feet. All of these are like banana bend kind of movements, lying on your back, bending sideways in the hammock. And even before I get to that, there's just some centering time where you settle in, you feel into the hammock, you just kind of like land and rest for a little bit and create a bit of space between whatever else has been happening in your day, which will obviously affect your experience in your yoga class, but also just to give yourself a little bit of time to settle in mentally and physically. And then I do flow into some spine warm-ups lying on the side. It's almost like a cat-cow pose, but in the hammock, you can move a lot more in both in forward-bending and backbending movements. It's almost like the feeling of moving in water because you're supported and it flows, and that's also just a chance to feel into how your spine is feeling today, because that can be different every day. But then from that sequence, it just depends on who's in the class. Like I check in with people, what they want to work on that day. Sometimes it might be like a really hot day, so that will exchange what I teach. And I have like different classes on my schedule. So I have a restorative class and that's really chill, and we start low to the ground, and that has extra meditation and relaxation time at the end of the class. I've got more active classes where we do more standing poses, but I'm not a teacher that like plans my classes. Like often I'll have an idea, like something that I feel like working on, but I just always check in with people and see what they have going on and what they want to work on and just bring that into the class. And then as we flow through, kind of respond to how everyone is going and the moves, whether we go in a particular direction, whether maybe we stop and focus on something a little bit more, if that feels like it would be helpful for people. So I guess it's like my art background that that's my creativity while teaching, to adapt with what's going on with people, see which direction we're going in, see how people's energy levels are going as we do things, rather than like sequencing it out beforehand and having that pre-planned idea of where the class is going to go.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Is it that do you go by the energy of people when you're gonna pick your class, like or go through your classroom? Do you just go by energy or how do you kind of structure it then? Is it more on the fly?

Three Options For Down Dog

Trauma And Neurodiversity In Hammocks

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Yeah, often I give options. So I might say, like, if you want to stay more grounded, choose this option where your feet stay on the floor. If you want to do a little bit more of a strength focus, maybe you'll do this option where you're lifting yourself up a bit more. Or like usually I'll kind of give three different choices. And so I see what people are choosing. And if you're like, oh, more people are choosing the grounded option, okay, I'm gonna go more in that direction. And like I just ask people as well, like how their energy is going, if there are things that they want to work on. And you can often see when people's energies drop. So even if it's like a move that we're doing a few repetitions, I'll always give people space just to stop and rest if they need to. So if you're seeing a lot of people stopping and resting, then I'll kind of go in that more chill direction. But sometimes it's really different. So sometimes there might be someone who is really energized and they want to challenge themselves, and someone else who wants to like have a more restorative, relaxed practice. And I think that's just the beauty of having a small group because I can give different options and people can go in a different direction. And sometimes I'll even have one hammock down lower and one hammock up higher. And you might have seen when you're looking through my book how that's kind of how I structure the pose index in the book, because there's a lot of poses where like the essence of the pose is the same. Like, say, Adamukus Fanasana, downward facing dog pose. You can use the hammock in many different ways to kind of get the benefits of that pose. So one option is standing on the ground, hinging forward from your hips, stretching the fabric forward in front of you with your arms, which is almost how you would practice downward-facing dog pose if you had your hands on the wall or a chair or a table. Like same shoulders, same spine feeling, similar hamstring stretch, but no weight on the hands and wrists. So that's a good option if people do, like maybe don't want to do an inversion, don't want to bring their head below their heart. Often that's an option I work with with older people. And the next two options, you actually have the hammock at the hip crease. So you can still keep your feet on the floor, you push the hammock down just below your hip bones, you walk forwards and then hinge forward from your hips and bring your hands down and then walk the feet backwards in space. So from the outside, that looks like a regular Ademokus Fanasina, regular down dog, but because the hammock is looped under your hips, it's drawing your spine up, like it's lengthening your spine, and it's a little bit less weight on your hands than if you had not had the hammock there, because it's kind of helping to hold you up. So that's a good option if people really want to focus on the stretch of the pose and actually how my spine feels doing that made a whole lot of other downward-facing dog cues make sense. Because I'm like, oh, this is the feeling I've been looking for. So that can be really cool for people who are experienced with yoga already to feel that pose in a different way. And then the adventurous people can lift their feet off the ground and hook them into the hammock, and then it's almost feeling more like if you bring your forearms down, really similar to Pinchamaya Rustana, forearm balance, or just working from the hands, somewhere in between a downward-facing dog pose and a handstand, but you won't fall out of it because the hammock is there. So just with like say those three options, we'd normally walk through work through them almost like the first one's a warm-up for everyone. If you like it, you can stay with it. The next phase you could try, you can go back from there. Or if you like that, you could go on to that other stage of wrapping your feet into the hammock. And it often seems to work out that the pose that's more of the foundation one, more of the grounded one, feels better to hang out in for a longer amount of time. So the people who are staying there are generally in a position that feels okay to stay with, even as other people in the group might be trying different options from there. And I definitely try and teach it in a way that it's not a progression. It's not like one option is better than the other option. It's just what option feels best in your body that day. And that can change. There's a lot of factors like bad night's sleep, stressful week, hormonal changes, all of those things affect how we're gonna feel upside down, whether we even want to go upside down that day. And in that particular pose with the fabric at the hips, sometimes that massage feeling can feel amazing and like really productive. And sometimes it can feel a bit much. Like hip flexors can be a sensitive area of the body and not everyone wants pressure there. And sometimes just, I know for me, depending on where I am in my menstrual cycle, that can feel really different. So there's space for that as well.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Now, you know, you also mentioned in the book you had sent that you talk about trauma and working with people who are neurodivergent in aerial yoga. What has been your experience that you've noticed and how have you seen any transformations or changes made?

Vestibular Stimulation Explained

SPEAKER_00 14:08

I feel like the biggest, most joyful thing that I've noticed is people feeling good in their bodies. People experiencing play and pleasure and release and relaxation. And I feel like the hammock gives me more options for people to find that for themselves. So some of the different sensory things that the hammock can give that the floor doesn't is a feeling of being cocooned and being supported. And that can be a very soothing nervous system feeling. A lot of people are like, is this what it was like in the womb? And you can bring in a gentle forward and back sway. And for many people's vestibular systems, that's a soothing feeling, almost like being on a rocking chair. So to start the practice in that way, in the hammock, being held, being supported, like I let people know that they can stay as long as they like in that position. And I've had people spend the entire class in that position because they just arrive feeling really depleted, really exhausted, and that's what they needed that day. The other things that the hammock can offer us in terms of especially working with neurodiversity is other ways to work with the vestibular system. So for many people, like that gentle forward and back motion is a soothing feeling. But people who need vestibular stimulation for regulation, there's a lot of scope for that as well. We can do spinning movements, we can go upside down. Random balancing movements can also help. You talk about vestibular stimulation. What exactly is that for people who don't know? Okay, our vestibular systems in our inner ear, and we use it to regulate our balance physically, but it also has a connection to emotional balance.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Okay. So the vestibular stimulation moves that you were talking about is that more, you know, either whether it's just laying on the hammock in a cocoon kind of position.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

It could only be a soothing move. That's the same thing. And then the stimul Yeah, the stimulating ones are spinning upside down, like out of the hammock, it would be like roller coasters, things like that. And uh but for a lot of people, the stimulation is what they need to feel regulation. So it can make them feel more calm and more present.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

So, like the spinning motion, is it that you'd have them just is it like a swinging thing kind of thing that they'd go and you can spin yourself.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

So it's like ultimate vestibular stimulating move. Some people like there's a move where the hammocks wrapped around your hips and you're hanging upside down with the legs and the hips supported, but you can touch the ground with your hands. So you can use your hands to turn yourself around and kind of wind yourself up. And then when you take your hands off the ground, like literally spin. And I've had people just say, like, this is so good for my idea. And I've had other people say, like, this helps me feel energized. So that's a niche move. Like, if anyone has any kind of motion sickness, I like really warn them about that option. And it's probably not something I give people in their first class because sometimes with that stuff, what feels good at the time actually feels a little bit too much after the movement. So we might warm up for that. But some other ways that you could experience spinning in the hammock in a more chill way is there's a pose where you sit in it, kind of like a straddle seat with one leg out each side, and then you can use your feet to turn you around and kind of like twist the hammock up at the top. And then if you take your feet off the ground, then you would spin out that way. So at least then you're like right way up and you can just experience the spinning and see how that feels before you add in the upside down as well. And I guess some of these moves are getting a little bit away from what would traditionally be considered like a yoga move. But I feel like any time that we're working with the body to work with the mind, that's the connection back to yoga for me. So even if the move looks different, it's the intention behind it to know yourself, to know your body, to know your mind, and to use the practice to help you work towards that peace of mind. Like I feel like that's what connects it back into being yoga versus something that's like circus or dance, where it's about the performance and about the outer experience of the movement rather than how it makes you feel.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

So it's more about just going into how your body will feel in the moment. It's more about helping balance you and kind of recenter you. It's not so much about the movement in and of itself. Because I think, you know, each field of yoga is so different because I went to a yoga class just recently in Honolulu when I was visiting Hawaii, you know, it was definitely a lot of repetitive moves. A lot of, you know, like warrior, warrior one, warrior two, downward dogs, a lot of downward dog, a lot of, you know, kind of push-up, kind of half push-up plank positions, things like that. But it was just a very, it was all just repetitive. A lot of it was very repetitive.

Deep Pressure And Sensory Choice

SPEAKER_00 19:03

And I get for some people's brains, that's soothing because you know what's coming up next. So you can get out of the state of mind that's wondering what's coming next because you have that reassurance of like feeling into that flow, especially if that's a practice that you do all the time. Like I feel like for some people that really works for them. It doesn't work for me. Like I my mind just checks out if it's too repetitive. Like, I often find I need I need things to help me stay present. And sometimes different sensations of movement can do that. And just to like swing back to the neurodiversity question, another thing that the fabric can do for us is deep pressure feeling. And so I know like a lot of my autistic people who come, like members of my community who come, like often will say, like, can we do like some deep pressure stuff today? And so that would be like a tight hug feeling or like a weighted blanket feeling. So you can tuck yourself into the hammock so it's really compressing your body. And for some people, that's what feels really supportive and calming. Other people feel trapped, so it's a very individual thing, but again, it's just having all these like different sensory options at our disposal and the space to like try something to see if it feels helpful. And, you know, like for me, that's what the practice is. It's like using the body to get towards a state of mind and to know ourselves better.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Have you had anybody ever give you feedback? You know, those who took your class who were um neurodivergent. Did anyone ever give you any feedback about what it was like for them and how they felt throughout the process?

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Yeah, absolutely. Often in the moment, because I do ask for that as well. Like I like is like, is this better or worse? And then sometimes people will give me feedback afterwards or the next day. And so some of the things that people share with me is that it helped them sleep that night. Other people have mentioned that they felt less pain after the session because there's a lot of correlation between neurodiversity and like, say, hypermobility. And so sometimes there's pain connected with that. And I also work with a lot of people with like chronic pain conditions like endometriosis. And while the hammock doesn't heal that, it can give you some short-term relief. And then if that means you sleep better that night and feel better the next day, then like that can be a helpful way to manage those kinds of conditions, even just like in that day-to-day moment to moment, like what's going to help me right now. I find that a lot of people as well appreciate like the space to be them. So in the hammock, there are a lot of moves where you can be quite tucked into it and in your own world. And I've had people share that sometimes when they're in a group class of yoga, just having a lot of people around them and nearby is kind of a mental load in itself and doesn't feel relaxing. But the ability to kind of have your own space within the fabric gives a nut to the sense of separation that you can be in your own space and do your own practice and just have a little bit less distraction of the people around you, but still get that group energy and still get that like nervous system benefit of like moving with other people. And honestly, just the like leaving your house and coming to a yoga space can also be a shift in headspace. It's like home is where all the distractions are, and like your phone, your computer, all those things. You know you're not looking at that for an hour in class, and you've brought your body to a different place, and then you have this different sensory experience of like hell being held by the fabric and all those different ways that you can move. So a lot. Of people have shared that just that in itself can be like really relaxing and really revitalizing and can just give them a chance to move in a way that feels good for them, in a way that they haven't necessarily experienced in other types of movement.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

That sounds all very interesting. What have you personally noticed though? Like have you seen any changes in demeanor when doing aerial yoga and how people, especially those with neurodiversity, come in versus how they leave?

Student Feedback And Life Changes

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah, I've seen people just visually look calmer, look more at ease. I've got quite a, I don't want to say a chatty studio, but often people do chat after the class and then during the class as well. Sometimes someone will ask a question and we'll talk about that for a bit. I have some like really welcoming, neurodiverse people in my community who bring friends and welcome others. And even one beautiful student, Joelle, makes hammock-safe stim toys, so they're with beads and like they don't make sounds, so they won't be distracting for other people, and they don't have any sharp edges, so they won't hurt the hammock fabric. But if that's what someone needs for meditation or relaxation, like she makes them as a gift for the studio, and they're just sitting there in a little bowl, and anyone can take one. And so I think people, like often people do take them, and then they take them home with them as well. And I get the sense that the more people come, the more they feel okay to like outwardly express who they are, versus staying quiet. And sometimes people arrive and you get the sense that they feel like a little bit guarded, and maybe because they've had other experiences in other yoga spaces that haven't been super welcoming, or just going into a new space is a lot. And so people are a little bit more quiet. And that's fine. Like coming to yoga and being quiet is what people need, so there's space for that as well. But I often find that people do interact with me and other people in the class a little bit more after the session and more as they come, and are more inclined to try new things in the class as well. That can be especially something that I notice in people who have bigger bodies because often there's like a lot of toxic diet culture that unfortunately finds its way into yoga spaces as well. So a lot of bigger people have had negative experiences of either not feeling welcome, not giving the options that they need in the practice. And because the hammock just gives quite a few more different ways that you can work with your body with varying levels of support. I see people shift into like being a little bit more adventurous with what they try. And there's not normally a dangerous thing that happens if you don't execute a m execute a move. So, like it is a safe place to just expand your range of what you feel might be possible for your body. And I feel like people like doing that, trying some different options is also a bit of a sign that they feel more comfy with me and more comfy with themselves and just more excited to explore different movement possibilities.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

You notice that after when people do aerial yoga, what are takeaways that people have maybe shared with you or you've noticed, you know, especially when you work with the neurodiverse population, what have you seen as a takeaway outside the class?

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Heard people share with me that that was the first time that they've experienced meditation or relaxation in a class because either they've been physically comfortable enough to get to that state or just emotionally and mentally comfortable enough to get to that state in a room of other people. And like people tell me that, but also sometimes when people come out of their hammocks at the end of the class, like you just see in their face they look so calm and so relaxed and move in a different way that seems a little softer. So there's that experience. And some people have told me these like really incredible stories that I had no idea about at the time. Like someone told me, they never mentioned any of this in the class, but they were someone who was a bit more adventurous in the class as times went on and tried new things. And then afterwards they told me that like it had actually given them the confidence in themselves to exit a really bad relationship situation and to go out on their own because they'd experienced like that self-trust to try new things in the class and just kind of like thanked me for, you know, giving them that space. And I feel like that's not me that they're thanking, like, that's yoga. Like that's the power of this practice to give us this ability to like live our best lives and to take that leap sometimes, even if it does feel scary, but if we know it's the right thing for us. So, like stories like that are really amazing. I've had other people as well, especially people who are a bit bigger, like just sharing how it's been the first time in a movement practice that they felt like they were able to like, like someone in my book actually described like almost feeling like a dysregulated, almost like panicky feeling in other movement classes from the lights and the movement and the other people there and the feeling that they were there to kind of punish their body or to be a different way, or like this is something that they had to do because it was good for them, not because it was something that felt good for them. And so to kind of have that shift into, oh, this is actually a movement practice that I can do because I enjoy it and it makes me feel good, not just something that I should do because that's what's healthy for me.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

And so it seems like you made the class be so that it it's very catered to each individual and it's not structured like how you may find other kinds of classes, not to, you know, of course, put any class down. I mean, different strokes for different folks, like they say, but like but it seems like in your class it's more free-flow for the most part, and people go at their own pace, and there's certain things that you might guide them to do, right? So certain things like the downward dog or um just any kind of different poses.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

100%. And like you're saying, like different strokes for different folks. Because I do feel like sometimes people might come to the class and just feel like they want a bit more guidance, like they want me to tell them what to do and what version to do. Because sometimes people say that. So I'll give the different options and they'll say, but like which one should I do? And like so, you can just like start with the first one, see how it feels. But I usually try and not necessarily give prescriptive effects for each pose because like the same movement can feel really different for different people. So I don't want to say this is relaxing, or because if you're not feeling relaxed, then that's confusing. And also you might feel like a failure if you're not getting the relaxing benefit from the pose that everyone's saying is relaxing and just like wonder like what's wrong with you and why. And no one needs like more pressure in yoga class, but I think some people sometimes find a lot of options overwhelming, especially if they have to make a lot of other choices in life. So sometimes when I like ask at the start of the class, what do you feel like doing today? And people will just be like, I don't know, like I'm here. So it's like, okay, like in the mood to not make decisions, that's also totally fine. So I try and give enough structure that it's not just an overwhelming amount of choices, especially if you're newer to the class. But within that, you can choose different ways to go, but still kind of follow the flow of the rest of the group. Because there are benefits to a rhythm of moving together, like nervous system benefits as well. And I understand, like if you have to make a lot of decisions in your job or in your daily life, sometimes you don't want to have a whole lot of choices in your yoga practice as well. Like sometimes you are there just to breathe and be and not make decisions.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

So it's like people get the choice, you but you'll guide them as to what move, but they all make the choice at what level or what vr modification they need it, depending.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Exactly. Yeah, that's how I try and do it. And then there's always space to rest as well. So if you ever need a rest, that's totally fine. You can always take that time.

When A Yoga Theme Hurts

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Now, you know, you've been in this practice for a while, and you said that you've gone to different yoga classes when you've traveled. Which yoga classes have had a big impact on you personally? Ooh, outside of Ariel yoga, outside of that in San Francisco.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Can I share a class that had a really big impact to me on a negative way? Sure. So my husband had stomach cancer about 10 years ago, and he actually ended up having a total gastrectomy and having his stomach removed. And through that process, there were a few weeks where we actually thought he had a terminal diagnosis. So he had a test leading up to his stomach surgery that showed something in his lung, and we were pretty much told that that meant that his cancer had spread and he there was no point having surgery, like that's a terminal diagnosis. So we were feeling really distraught, really exhausted, like wiped out. And we both went to a yoga class, and the class was about it was all about bliss. And the teacher was continually telling us to like invite in bliss and to feel the bliss. And all that we needed to do was to feel the bliss was just to like get out of our own way. Like all of our problems were kind of illusions or within our own mind, and the practice was just about opening up to the bliss. And that was such a learning experience to me because I understand how on paper that could be like a really beautiful theme to a class. But with what we were going through at the moment, just to be told to like open up to bliss, it was such a disconnect from what I needed that day and what I wanted to hear. Because that was a class where I did just want to move and breathe and have a bit of space from everything that we were dealing with in the rest of our lives and to hopefully feel a bit calmer and a bit more regulated at the end of the session. But instead, I was kind of angry at that teacher and like disappointed and sad. And it was a lesson. Like it's why I choose not to say to people that this pose is relaxing and I really try and give people space to have their own experiences because you just don't know what someone is coming in with. Like, we didn't tell the teacher anything before the class. And people have all kinds of stuff going on in their lives. So that was a bit of a change in how I choose to teach, just to give people space to have their own experience. So I feel like that was a bit of a like teaching life-changing class.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

And you probably left that class then feeling very unsatisfied. Yeah. Yeah. Like I didn't want to go back to that studio. I can only imagine. But you know, what's remarkable is yet you still continue to pursue yoga. It was not like you're like, okay, one bad experience, I'm out the door or done. You know, what's still remarkable is the fact you kept coming back, but in different ways.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

And actually, just to give the flip side to that, um, we had another really amazing experience, like with a different yoga teacher, where I mean it was when my husband first got his diagnosis and like told the teacher, because obviously I've got this going on, like that might affect me in class. And even though the teacher had like, I think we'd been going for a few weeks or maybe a month, that teacher gave him like six months membership at that studio, just so that he could come and practice and have that peace and not have like the money stuff to worry about on top of everything else. So during that time, like we also had almost the inverse of that experience where someone was so generous and like gave him this practice of yoga, like through this hard time. So yeah, like it was definitely for me as well, during that time, like I really leaned into yin yoga. Like I found yin was what I needed, and that was quiet. And if you're feeling exhausted, it's a lot of like very passive poses, but I felt like it allowed me to kind of let go of some of that tension that I was holding in my body, and I felt better afterwards. So I had positive yoga experiences as well at that time.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

You know, and it seemed like it's been it's more than just something that you got introduced to when you were young. It's more it became something that became also kind of like a lifeline for you, in especially your darkest hours. 100%. My brother had stomach cancer, but unfortunately for him, um, he passed away. He had surgery in August of 2008, then by May of 2009, not even a full year, he was already gone. And it's just cancer is always a very devastating, it's also very heartbreaking, devastating diagnosis. And so it's just, you know, and having that lifeline, you know, that thing would that you can go to and resort to as a way to escape in a healthy way and get away from things.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Absolutely. And sending my like deep condolences for you and your family. I'm so sorry for your loss. And yeah, it's such a hard time. Especially having had the surgery and then like to still lose him afterwards. Like, I can only imagine like the roller coaster that you would have all been on through that.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

It was tough. I remember I was um in law school at the time and I was finishing my last year of law school. I feel like with cancer, in a weird way, it's an all-inclusive kind of suffering, right? Because when one person's suffering, the one who's actually going through it, it doesn't just stop at that one person. It affects every other person around them, like all their loved ones, you know, family members, friends, coworkers, colleagues, you know, all of that. So I think that it's you know, that's what's unique in that sense, you know, when it comes to cancer. But at the same time, one thing I, you know, I'm you know, hopeful about is with the advancement of treatment and with the advancement of the, you know, just a technology, you know, and things like that, you know, it only will the only place to go up, go up is up with that, right? You know, like in terms of just treatments getting better, um, you know, having overcome more remissions, things like that.

Health Care Access And Prevention

SPEAKER_00 37:38

And the tricky thing about stomach cancer is often it doesn't have a lot of very obvious symptoms because it before it's quite far advanced. So even just like the awareness of anything different that people notice with their digestion and the self-advocacy as well, because um my husband was like brushed off by a couple of doctors who told him his symptoms weren't anything to worry about. And um he came to my doctor who I was like, like, come see Tamson, like she's great, like she'll listen to you. And I think um there's like an intersection of identities as well that makes that more challenging. Like, there's a lot of statistics about medical bias and about women not being listened to and people of colour not being listened to, and sometimes there's financial barriers as well, because um, like luckily in Australia, our healthcare is covered. Like we didn't have to pay for his treatment, so that's not the situation in a lot of other countries, so that can be a really intense part of it. So yeah, it's like on a on so many levels. It's like the emotional level, but also sometimes like with treatment as well, there's like the logistical level of getting to the appointments and the uncertainty of waiting for the results and everything. Like there's so many layers to it.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

There is, there is, and you know, um, you know, and especially when it comes to like also, especially the financial piece, you know, this is where a lot more of that stress comes in as well. Because you, you know, I'm wondering, okay, how am I supposed to cover all this? You know, especially if insurance is not is only going to cover a certain amount, or if I haven't met my deductible yet, what am I supposed to do?

SPEAKER_00 39:22

And no one should have to think about that when they're having life-saving treatment. I feel like it should be a human right that people should get the medical care that they need. Sure. No percent.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

And I feel like that's you know, and unfortunately, depending on where you are in the world, right? Medical care is looked at as a luxury instead of a necessity in just how the system is set up. Same thing with mental health, right? Therapy, for example, that's looked at as a luxury depending on where you are in the world instead of a necessity, because people don't understand mental health is health at the end of the day. And there is brain-body connection. So if your mind is not in a good state and you're not in a good p place, that affects how your body responds.

Cultural Appropriation And Yoga Ethics

SPEAKER_00 40:12

You know, and there's so much research about how preventative health dollars, like early intervention, giving people like the resources that they need so that they are more able to take care of themselves, whether it's mental health support or physical health support. It's like if people are looking at this as a um economic thing, early intervention and giving people those tools so that they can better take care of themselves is much less money than like late-stage treatment for these conditions. Like one of the groups that I work with, I do like a free chair yoga class that my local council pays for. So it's open for the whole community. And so a lot of people who do come are retired or have mobility issues. And like hearing from them about how, like, even something simple as balance, like they've noticed benefits in their balance from attending that chair yoga class. So that means they're less likely to slip and fall and break a hip, which suddenly is a much bigger medical issue. Or like what you're saying with the mental health part of it, like feeling lonely and isolated is unfortunately a reality for a lot of people in the community, and that can have profound physical health elements to it as well. So providing people with this community space where they can meet other people, like they can move together, like they can have conversations afterwards, but they don't have to. I feel like that's such a low cost for the council to provide for me to teach that class. And like, I'm not the only person in this program, and chair yoga is not the only thing. Like, there's a lot of different classes that people can go to so that they can like do an activity that they enjoy. It's quite a small amount of money to put into supporting a really broad section of the community. And I wish there were more programs like that.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

You also had no mentioned certain things in your book about cultural appropriation, being conscious of certain words that you're using because of potential triggers and things like that. What have you seen to be an issue?

Aerial Yoga Roots And History

SPEAKER_00 42:19

I mean, I feel like a big issue in the yoga world today is the intersection of capitalism and yoga and making it about the yoga pants, making it about expensive classes, and sometimes making the practice of yoga inaccessible to the people who come from the heart of yoga, from South Asia. And sometimes as well, like I've learned a lot, um, especially from the Yoga Is Dead podcast, actually, from Tajel and Jasil, and speaking about how they've been corrected in class by a white yoga teacher from something that they've shared from their own personal and cultural experience. They've been made to feel uncomfortable and unwelcome in a practice that comes from their own culture. So I feel like situations like that is not what yoga's about and a sign of a real wrong turn. So, like that's an example of harm being done where someone is being corrected about something that comes from their history and their culture by someone who has come to this practice, I guess, as an uninvited guest, because a lot of people want to experience the benefits of yoga. And I feel like there are a lot of teachers who've come from India and other places in South Asia who've taken yoga out to share with the world. And that's been a life mission to kind of bring this practice to humanity. But when doors start being closed to people attending a yoga class, or if people start being told that they're doing it wrong, because there's a lot of diversity in the way that people practice yoga, there's a lot of different traditions, like different lineages have different names for different things and different ways of doing different things. Like, I feel like yoga should be an opportunity for learning. And especially if it's from outside of your culture and someone is sharing something personally from their own life experience, even if it's a correction of what you might be saying, like if you're not open to that, like that's not yoga, that's something else. So I feel like those kinds of interactions that I hear about from people are a sign to be mindful about what I share, about acknowledging its roots. And I feel like as well, a lot of yoga classes are quite focused on the physical and not on all the other aspects of what this practice can be, and not just the mental and emotional aspects, but the ethics of yoga, the philosophy of yoga. Like living your life in a way that aligns with those principles. I feel like if I'm sharing something from a different culture, it's really important for me to learn as much as I can about it so that I can share it in its fullest way. And it actually led me to looking into because like aerial yoga is using a different prop. It's using a silk hammock. So like I feel like there's an extra responsibility because it might not look like a traditional practice. But the more I looked into yoga history, the more I found there's actually a lot of historical precedents supported in versions. So um there's a couple of texts from the Mysore Palace that have illustrations of people hanging from trees, like wrapped up in a rope. And there's definitely like a tapis history. So aesthetic practices. There's a practice called batpenance, which definitely sounds like hanging upside down. And that's a different focus. So that would be putting your body in this very extreme physical position as a way to transcend the mind, which is not-I don't think that's safe for me to teach that way. And that's an aesthetic practice, but that is a historical precedent. And actually Kafita Moahan um wrote a book called Traditional Ariel Yoga, where she shared about the thottle, which is the silk hammock that babies sleep in, and often it's the mother's sari. So I feel like that's a bit of a historical precedent for how I start my class with everyone lying in the silk hammock. So sometimes aerial yoga is shared as this new thing, but the more that we look into the history of yoga, the more like it's not actually that new. It might be a new expression of practicing this way, but it seems like people have been hanging upside down from ropes and fabrics for hundreds of years. Right. And using those like body positions to get to the state of mind. So like I feel like it's my responsibility to like to learn and to be open and to kind of share in a way that acknowledges that like what I'm sharing, it's filtered through my own experience, but I didn't come up with this stuff. Like I am just getting to tap into this stuff, and that's a real privilege.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

So, Joe, where can people find you if they want to learn more about your studio, they want to learn more about your practice? Perhaps maybe they want to come and take a class if they're in the burn area.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Yeah, so my website is gardenofyoga.com.au. I teach online as well. I don't teach aerial yoga online, but I teach yin yoga online, and my mat online classes are pretty chill. You can find my book at eight limbs of aerial yoga. I also do a podcast with my husband Ron called the Flow Artists Podcast, where we speak to a lot of people from the yoga world, but also authors and activists and artists. And I've got to say, I have found the podcast to actually be a really amazing source of yoga education for me. Often I'll reach out to people who've read like written a book that I've really loved. And it's almost like you get to do a masterclass with that person because you get to ask them all the questions that have come up while reading the book. And I felt like it's actually been a way for me to explore those aspects, especially of like yoga philosophy, beyond the physicality of the practice, because I'm not someone who can read a yoga philosophy book and integrate it and understand it right away. So the ability to be able to speak to the author and unpack it a bit more, I found has been really a wonderful aspect of my own yoga education that I hadn't really considered before doing a podcast. So it's actually a lot of the experts in my book, especially the yoga history and philosophy experts, I've connected through to through the podcast and then shared their wisdom as part of my book. So that's also been a really nice, I guess, another layer of integration. Sometimes I feel like if I learn something new, I feel like I understand it. And then when I try to teach someone else, I realize there are a few more layers of understanding in that sharing. So um I appreciate that aspect of yoga teaching as a way to fully integrate yoga learning.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Excellent. You know, whenever I'm in Melbourne, I would love to come by and take your class and check it out. But thank you so much for being on here and sharing your experiences and sharing your story.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Thank you so much, Sonia. And like when you come to Melbourne, you're so welcome. I would love to have you at the studio. I'd love to meet in person. And thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. I really appreciate it.

Rate Review Subscribe And Share

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Thank you so much for hopping on here and sharing your story. And all of your stuff will be in the show notes. So, everybody, thank you so much for all who tuned in. Uh, if you liked what you heard, remember to please rate, review, and subscribe to my podcast and also share it with family members and friends. And stay tuned for more episodes. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Thank you.