Jan. 31, 2026
Ep 174: Lifecycle Marketing That Doesn’t Annoy Anyone
Send us a text We break down lifecycle marketing as a practical engine that connects acquisition to revenue with smart flows, clean lists and respectful cadence. Craig Zingerlein shares deliverability tactics, must-have sequences and simple tests to raise conversions without burning out. • definition of lifecycle marketing and where it sits in the funnel • flows versus campaigns, triggers and exits • lead nurture, onboarding, upsell, abandoned cart, evergreen, sunset • avoiding spammy outrea...
We break down lifecycle marketing as a practical engine that connects acquisition to revenue with smart flows, clean lists and respectful cadence. Craig Zingerlein shares deliverability tactics, must-have sequences and simple tests to raise conversions without burning out.
• definition of lifecycle marketing and where it sits in the funnel
• flows versus campaigns, triggers and exits
• lead nurture, onboarding, upsell, abandoned cart, evergreen, sunset
• avoiding spammy outreach and protecting deliverability
• separating cold email, CRM marketing and transactional messages
• segmentation tactics to exclude bot clicks
• timing windows for B2B upsells and proposal follow-up
• using replies to shift from automation to one-to-one
• A/B testing cadence and watching unsubscribes
• mapping flows with goals, steps, content and CTAs
• tools for building flow maps and where to find Craig
If this episode made things feel a little more doable, I'd love to help you take the next step with the booked out blueprint. It's a practical, low pressure session to clarify your offers, your marketing, and what actually moves the needle. You can book yours through the link in the show notes. You don't have to figure it out alone.
My Booked Out Blueprint starts with a private 45-minute interview where I learn your business, your goals, and what’s actually holding you back. From that, I create a custom roadmap showing your best route to booked out—no fluff, just clarity. It’s $397, and if you move forward into Booked Out in Six, that $397 is fully credited. Book Yours Here.
Are you tired of prospects ghosting you? With a Gateway Offer, that won't happen.
Over the next Ten Days, we will launch and sell our Gateway Offers with the goal of reaching booked-out status!
Join the challenge here.
Join my events community for FREE monthly events.
I offer free events each month to help you master your business's growth through marketing, sales, systems, and offer strategy.
Join the community here!
Schedule a Booked-out Blueprint >>> Schedule.
Come tour my digital home :) >>>Website
Wanna be friends? >>> LinkedIn
Let's chat every Tuesday! >>> Newsletter
Catch the video podcast on YouTube >>>YouTube
Join my event group for live events >>>Meetup
01:06 - Welcome And Craig’s Growth Background
02:18 - What Lifecycle Marketing Really Is
04:55 - Flows Vs Campaigns And Triggers
06:57 - Avoiding Annoyance And Cold Email Pitfalls
09:15 - Deliverability, Domains, And Email Buckets
11:48 - Smarter Segmentation And Bot Clicks
13:58 - Personalization, Milestones, And Upsells
17:52 - Testing Cadence And Reading Complaints
19:46 - The Five To Six Must‑Have Flows
21:48 - Abandoned Cart For B2B Proposals
24:02 - Objections, Timing, And Letting Automation Work
26:10 - Sunset Flows And List Hygiene
28:41 - Handling Bot Activity And Driving Replies
30:55 - Mapping Flows For Strategy And Content
33:40 - Touchpoint Benchmarks And Evergreen Nurture
36:11 - Tools, Links, And How To Connect
41:17 - Booked Out Blueprint CTA
WEBVTT
00:00:34.329 --> 00:00:35.850
Welcome to I am Art.
00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:38.009
I'm doing all block.
00:00:38.329 --> 00:00:42.489
This show is made for solo consultants who want to get booked out without burning out.
00:00:42.649 --> 00:00:46.810
If you've ever thought, I just want that to feel easier, you're not alone.
00:00:46.969 --> 00:00:54.890
Around here, we focus on simple, sustainable growth that actually fits into your life so growth feels doable instead of overwhelming.
00:00:55.450 --> 00:00:56.729
I'm Craig Zingerlein.
00:00:56.810 --> 00:01:08.250
I'm the founder of a company called Growth Minded, and we run performance marketing, lifecycle marketing, and special ops campaigns for SMBs up through PE-backed companies.
00:01:08.650 --> 00:01:13.769
I'm a serial entrepreneur, and so this is, I guess, my fifth or sixth company overall.
00:01:14.170 --> 00:01:35.609
And I spent much of my career in um started as a software engineer and then was a product manager for a really long time, and then realized after building probably a hundred websites and products, that if you can't actually get distribution working and get people buying whatever you're selling, whether it's a product or service, then you're basically gonna be in a tough spot.
00:01:35.849 --> 00:01:42.330
And so about uh about 10 years ago or so, I started getting into the field of marketing and growth marketing in particular.
00:01:42.490 --> 00:01:45.370
And that's really where I've been for the last 10 years or so.
00:01:45.689 --> 00:01:46.330
Nice.
00:01:46.729 --> 00:01:52.169
And today we are talking about life cycle marketing, specifically in email.
00:01:52.650 --> 00:02:00.009
So, first for anybody, because a lot of people who listen to this show, they're not in marketing, they're founders.
00:02:00.250 --> 00:02:02.490
Um, what is life cycle marketing?
00:02:03.050 --> 00:02:04.090
It's a good question.
00:02:04.250 --> 00:02:25.449
So, life cycle marketing, think of it as an engine that you can set up that's running behind the scenes that sits between your customer acquisition, so what you're doing out in the market to try to find customers and get them interested in your product or service, and then connecting them to their opportunities for you to monetize them.
00:02:25.530 --> 00:02:32.889
And so that's monetization, it's retention, it's loyalty, it's uh initial purchase, it's membership sales.
00:02:32.969 --> 00:02:43.050
And so lifecycle marketing from a platform and channel perspective generally um spans SMS and mobile, email marketing.
00:02:43.210 --> 00:02:48.810
If you've got a native app, maybe you're doing push marketing or even in-app notifications, those types of things.
00:02:48.969 --> 00:02:54.090
So lifecycle marketing sits kind of in between all the other actions that you're taking.
00:02:54.170 --> 00:03:12.650
And generally it's a series of one-off things that you're doing to try to move users through your buyer journey, uh, as well as some automations, quite a few automations actually that you can put in place to let lifecycle marketing do the work for you while you work on other things, hopefully.
00:03:12.969 --> 00:03:16.090
So, what is the goal of life cycle marketing?
00:03:16.409 --> 00:03:19.289
Yeah, I mean, it depends on what stage you're looking at.
00:03:19.450 --> 00:03:26.650
So let's say common scenario is that you are really, really good at getting leads uh into your ecosystem.
00:03:27.129 --> 00:03:35.689
But maybe you follow up with a lead once or twice, and then you've got new leads coming in, and you just the ones that are starting to age out, you just don't deal with anymore.
00:03:35.849 --> 00:03:43.210
And so typically founders are left with a decision like, do I continue chasing leads that are coming in or do I work with the ones that are starting to convert?
00:03:43.450 --> 00:04:07.689
An example where you could use lifecycle marketing would be on a um, you could build a sequence or a flow that would take leads that have not yet converted and actually present them with more relevant information and context about your business, and maybe you sprinkle in an offer or two while you're at it to try to educate them and to get them more aware of what you're actually putting out into the market and you let that do the work for you.
00:04:07.930 --> 00:04:10.330
But there's a whole bunch of different ways to use it.
00:04:10.409 --> 00:04:20.009
I mean, there's there's about five or six kind of core B2C focused flows that you'd want to set up with lifecycle marketing and a number with B2B as well.
00:04:20.089 --> 00:04:23.209
But that would be a typical area that you would look at with lifecycle.
00:04:23.529 --> 00:04:23.849
Okay.
00:04:24.730 --> 00:04:30.409
Now you mentioned flows in our in our pre-conversation.
00:04:30.730 --> 00:04:32.490
What is a flow?
00:04:33.050 --> 00:04:33.370
Yeah.
00:04:33.529 --> 00:04:43.050
So a flow is basically it's basically a set of messages that you're gonna put out to your audience.
00:04:43.209 --> 00:04:47.689
And again, depending on like what stage you're at, this is gonna vary and in what you're offering.
00:04:47.769 --> 00:04:48.889
That may be different.
00:04:49.129 --> 00:04:57.209
But think of a flow as doing multiple touch points against your audience based on where they're at and you try to meet them where you're at.
00:04:57.289 --> 00:05:08.649
So that example that I just used where you've got leads coming in and maybe they're converting, but not at the rate you want them to, you could put them into a flow called something like lead nurture flow.
00:05:08.810 --> 00:05:13.370
And it's doing the work across multiple touch points to push them along the buyer's journey.
00:05:13.449 --> 00:05:20.569
Or maybe you've got an onboarding flow after like they've um signed up or done something with your with your product.
00:05:20.810 --> 00:05:34.250
And so a flow really is a fancy way of saying um that you're running some set of multi-touch point sequencing um against your audience as compared to like a campaign, which would be a one-off, right?
00:05:34.329 --> 00:05:48.009
And so, like when we think about a campaign, which is kind of where a lot of us start with lifecycle marketing, we might not even know we're starting lifecycle marketing, but like an email campaign or an SMS campaign, those are the starting points for any good lifecycle marketing program.
00:05:48.169 --> 00:05:55.209
Those are generally kind of one-dimensional, like you're doing some amount of outreach to people, but there's not a lot of logic behind it.
00:05:55.289 --> 00:06:13.370
So a flow is going to incorporate logic and it's also going to have an entry point or a trigger that kind of puts somebody into it, then it does its work, and then there's going to be some exit criteria that tells the flow, okay, this person did the thing or didn't do the thing you you were hoping them to do.
00:06:13.609 --> 00:06:17.370
We're going to now pull them out of that so you don't keep hitting them up with messaging.
00:06:17.609 --> 00:06:19.289
Yeah, that was going to be my next question.
00:06:19.449 --> 00:06:22.089
How do we not annoy people when they're in that?
00:06:22.409 --> 00:06:22.649
Right.
00:06:22.729 --> 00:06:22.969
Yeah.
00:06:23.129 --> 00:06:32.969
So basically, like I generally think that we I've rarely worked with founders that are annoying people to the point where it's a detriment to their business.
00:06:33.129 --> 00:06:42.729
Now, the big caveat and exception is there's almost nothing that triggers me more than getting put on a sequence, especially a cold outreach sequence, which is different than lifecycle marketing.
00:06:42.810 --> 00:06:45.769
So like cold outreach is definitely Yes, those are so annoying.
00:06:46.009 --> 00:06:49.049
I have a thousand of them that are currently hitting my spam folder.
00:06:49.289 --> 00:06:49.449
Yeah.
00:06:49.529 --> 00:06:51.129
I and I market with spam too.
00:06:51.209 --> 00:06:53.529
And and I I even post about this and stuff on LinkedIn.
00:06:53.609 --> 00:06:56.649
I'm like, founders, if you're gonna do outreach, which you should do, right?
00:06:56.729 --> 00:06:58.409
Like everybody needs to grow their company.
00:06:58.489 --> 00:06:59.129
I totally get it.
00:06:59.209 --> 00:07:01.049
Like, I do cold outreach as well.
00:07:01.289 --> 00:07:04.009
Think about that though, as a it's a different thing.
00:07:04.169 --> 00:07:13.609
And and especially if you're putting somebody on a list that you don't know or who hasn't raised their hand and said, Hey, I'm interested in your product or service, don't spam them.
00:07:13.769 --> 00:07:18.810
Like at a bare minimum, be a decent human and put an unsubscribe link in.
00:07:19.049 --> 00:07:29.529
If I see an unsubscribe link in an email from a founder, and let's say the email just totally sucks, like it's either or it's using a horrible AI, or it's just not good.
00:07:29.769 --> 00:07:32.489
If there's an unsub link, I'll just click the unsub link.
00:07:32.649 --> 00:07:34.969
If there's none, it's automatically going to scream.
00:07:35.289 --> 00:07:35.609
Yes.
00:07:37.049 --> 00:07:38.169
It annoys me so much.
00:07:38.250 --> 00:07:42.729
Like, one, I didn't ask to be on this list, you are just sending it.
00:07:43.209 --> 00:07:53.209
It's like I understand that people, I mean, you know, like you get desperate to find revenue and to connect users to what you're doing, but that is not the way.
00:07:53.449 --> 00:08:02.329
By the way, the other thing that happens with that type of outreach, and this does relate to life cycle marketing, is around deliverability.
00:08:02.489 --> 00:08:24.569
So let's say you're a founder and you're doing, I don't know,$10,000 a month in revenue, and you are sending a bunch of cold email, and then you're actually kind of doing white hat tactics around life cycle marketing, and you've decided to build a lead flow to try to take leads and educate them a little bit more before you really kind of pitch them.
00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:30.250
But you've already burned your IP address by cold emailing people and getting marked as spam.
00:08:30.409 --> 00:08:33.690
I've seen nobody's gonna get your emails when you send them.
00:08:33.850 --> 00:08:40.009
Like you literally don't be like, and this is in the world of deliverability, which kind of lives with inside life cycle marketing as well.
00:08:40.090 --> 00:08:49.210
So yeah, that reminds me, someone asked me not that long ago, should you have a separate email for your cold outreach as opposed to your marketing?
00:08:49.370 --> 00:08:51.450
I would say yes, but I'm not the expert.
00:08:51.529 --> 00:08:52.570
What do you say?
00:08:52.970 --> 00:08:55.769
100,000 percent like LS.
00:08:55.929 --> 00:09:03.289
So, okay, there's three, there's kind of three buckets that that I would think about with email in general, right?
00:09:03.450 --> 00:09:04.090
Maybe even four.
00:09:04.169 --> 00:09:09.289
There's like your personal email or whatever you're doing with your company, like I'm just craget growth-minded, whatever, right?
00:09:09.529 --> 00:09:15.529
Then there's um there's cold outreach, which really should be put in its own little universe.
00:09:15.610 --> 00:09:19.769
And there's a lot of cold outreach tools that you can use and ways you can pull lists and stuff.
00:09:19.850 --> 00:09:26.809
That should be a totally separate infrastructure in email address and even subdomain or primary domain.
00:09:26.970 --> 00:09:34.889
Because if you get blacklisted off your primary domain, it might take you months to basically undo that process.
00:09:34.970 --> 00:09:37.209
And we've actually helped some clients with that work.
00:09:37.289 --> 00:09:41.129
It's really, really hard to get off those spam lists once you're on them.
00:09:41.370 --> 00:09:47.049
The second major bucket, though, is like your email automations and your CRM work.
00:09:47.129 --> 00:10:02.250
So, like however you're mostly communicating with your clients and with your leads, usually that'll be through, you know, whether it's like a flow desk or an interval or HubSpot or whatever CRM platform you're using, you'll run your lifecycle marketing campaigns from that.
00:10:02.329 --> 00:10:04.329
You'll probably even do your SMS campaigns from there.
00:10:04.490 --> 00:10:08.809
And then the third bucket, and this often gets overlooked, is your triggered email.
00:10:08.970 --> 00:10:18.569
And sometimes we see what happens is that like, let's say you have a lot of transactions that are happening and a lot of like receipt notifications and other things about membership and accounts.
00:10:18.649 --> 00:10:21.769
Like if you run a community or something, you'll have a lot of those emails.
00:10:21.929 --> 00:10:24.169
Sometimes those get into spam land.
00:10:24.569 --> 00:10:29.610
Um, and and you have to basically unpack that then from like your main CRM.
00:10:29.689 --> 00:10:37.370
And so, really, I would think about like when you start thinking about kind of growing your business and your email strategy as you move along, there's those three buckets.
00:10:37.449 --> 00:10:41.850
It's like non-transactional, it's triggered, and then it's like your CRM.
00:10:42.250 --> 00:10:42.809
Yeah.
00:10:43.289 --> 00:10:48.730
That's I'm glad you brought that up because I haven't ever thought about like those transactional emails.
00:10:48.809 --> 00:10:50.649
They're coming from somewhere.
00:10:50.970 --> 00:10:55.049
Yeah, usually they're like big platforms, and so they generally do a really good job.
00:10:55.129 --> 00:10:58.970
But I mean, there's so many cool new AI products and stuff that are out there.
00:10:59.129 --> 00:11:09.610
Like there's so many like homegrown products that are out there that some of them aren't gonna have, they're not gonna give you the capability to kind of disconnect it from your main domain or whatever.
00:11:09.689 --> 00:11:11.289
And so you could get into trouble.
00:11:11.370 --> 00:11:14.250
Um, but yeah, it's it's kind of becoming a bigger deal.
00:11:14.569 --> 00:11:15.769
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:11:16.009 --> 00:11:19.769
I want to talk a little bit more about those flows.
00:11:19.929 --> 00:11:32.090
So, one thing that I do to make sure that I'm sending those emails to people who actually care about um what I'm talking about is I set up a lot of action sequences.
00:11:32.569 --> 00:11:51.610
So, like people who clicked on the link for the product but did not click on I'll I'll usually use one of my like social media links um because so many like Gmail will just automatically click on all of your links to see if there's spam.
00:11:52.090 --> 00:11:54.090
So your analytics aren't very accurate.
00:11:54.569 --> 00:12:08.090
So the only way that I can think to really find people who are truly interested and clicked is to remove anyone who clicked on every single link from that segment.
00:12:08.250 --> 00:12:14.090
And then I'm able to send the next email to just people who are interested in that product but didn't convert.
00:12:14.409 --> 00:12:15.929
Yeah, that's really smart.
00:12:16.009 --> 00:12:21.769
And we have spammers to thank for that too, the fact that you have to like go through the exercise and do it.
00:12:22.490 --> 00:12:22.970
Yeah.
00:12:23.289 --> 00:12:32.009
So, but I mean, you're like 99%, like you're way ahead of what most people do because it takes a bunch of work to do that, as you probably experienced.
00:12:32.090 --> 00:12:39.529
Like to set it up and to build the sequence, to build the segments, build the lists and build the segments smartly is is kind of hard to do.
00:12:39.610 --> 00:12:41.049
It's just time consuming.
00:12:41.289 --> 00:12:47.370
Um, and so but yeah, the other thing to look at is if you can even get one layer deeper.
00:12:47.449 --> 00:13:01.529
So, like oftentimes, so like when we're thinking about, for example, a lead flow or a flow that like is doing the work or a sequence that's doing the work for somebody that hasn't ever purchased, those types of metrics work really well.
00:13:01.689 --> 00:13:07.610
Like they haven't done anything yet around revenue, and they click, click, click, click, click.
00:13:07.689 --> 00:13:09.610
So that's a bot, we're gonna like totally ignore them.
00:13:09.689 --> 00:13:16.730
Yeah, and we actually put them into a sunset flow um or something that is like smartly kind of unsubscribing them.
00:13:16.970 --> 00:13:26.329
And then the the deeper you get into life cycle marketing, the more personalization and sophistication you can put into your flows.
00:13:26.490 --> 00:13:37.689
And so, like, if you think about now you might have a user who's purchased one time, but let's say you sell a membership, let's say they need to buy your thing three times before they're really going to be primed to be a member.
00:13:37.850 --> 00:13:46.569
Okay, now you can build an onboarding sequence that's based on an action that was like they did an action one time, but they didn't do it the three times.
00:13:46.970 --> 00:13:52.169
Versus if they do it two times, now they're like only one away from converting into a membership potentially.
00:13:52.329 --> 00:13:58.090
So you might you might trigger an upsell campaign at that point to try to like I like that.
00:13:58.970 --> 00:15:06.200
So I use Heartbeat for my community, and um, you can build workflows directly in there.
00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:24.840
So one thing that I've started to do is like when someone finishes one product, they've completed it, it'll like maybe a week before that completion is is meant to happen, I'll start a workflow about the next product that would make sense for them based off of that.
00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:28.200
But you could do multiple touch points, like you were talking about at the beginning.
00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:33.720
So they could get a pop-up, a ping, like a notification, an email or a DM.
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:35.720
That is super cool.
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:39.159
And that's where, like, yeah, I think a lot of magic can happen there.
00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:47.159
And as you kind of to your early point around like, how do you know you're not annoying people or whatever?
00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:50.519
That's a good area to actually A B test some of this stuff.
00:15:50.680 --> 00:15:57.879
Um, I one of the first things that I'll do when I work with companies on email marketing strategies, just kind of on lifecycle marketing strategy in general.
00:15:58.040 --> 00:16:10.440
And this is true for like really early stage companies, like um, as well as much later stage companies, you'd be surprised at how little work they've put into this in some cases.
00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:21.800
In other cases, they've built out everything, and like you can't find opportunities, but almost every time we find opportunities, and what we'll do is we'll kind of look at like, okay, what's your baseline?
00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:24.440
Like, what are you doing right now, and like how is that working?
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:28.040
And let's put some like guardrails around like the measurement of that.
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:34.519
And then one of the first things that we'll do is we'll put together something called like the aggressive version of whatever it was.
00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:53.480
And so in your case, it might be like getting a little bit out of your comfort zone, but for like all the founders listening to your podcast, it's like it's really hard for us to sense like when we're not pushing hard enough or when we're pushing too hard, and like you can actually let you can let mad people tell you, right?
00:16:53.639 --> 00:17:00.840
Because people that aren't hearing from you aren't gonna be like, hey Sarah, like you should be hitting me up more frequently, like that almost never happens.
00:17:00.920 --> 00:17:05.720
But if you you're hammering them, you're gonna tell me more, you know what I mean?
00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:11.879
And so, um, but it's somewhere in the middle that we just don't really know as founders, like, how are we supposed to know that?
00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:24.839
And so if you set up a B version or like a variant of whatever you've got currently running, just duplicate it, and then double the outreach, you'll learn pretty quickly.
00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.720
Like, did that did it move the needle at all?
00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:29.319
Like, are people starting to complain?
00:17:29.399 --> 00:17:41.480
And what what I always tell uh founders is like, if you're not hearing complaints and you're not seeing a degradation in like your not necessarily your send quality or your deliverability, because that would be bad.
00:17:41.639 --> 00:17:54.200
But like if you're not seeing a small increase in unsub ratios compared to baseline, you probably have a little bit more room to grow within your existing audience in other makes sense.
00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:54.920
Yeah.
00:17:55.079 --> 00:18:05.080
So an A B an A B test on that, um, something because they don't typically tell you if you're gonna computing them.
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:17.240
Yeah, um so something that I do is I'll just put a little like click here if you're not interested in in this product and I won't email you about it again.
00:18:17.320 --> 00:18:21.480
And it just puts them on a list, like not interested in this instead of unsubscribing.
00:18:21.800 --> 00:18:23.160
And it disarms them too.
00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:26.200
So like they could come back even relationships.
00:18:26.600 --> 00:18:32.759
They're not gone forever, but they have the option to just be like, I'm not that is not what I need right now.
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:33.560
Totally.
00:18:33.800 --> 00:18:34.360
Absolutely.
00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:35.560
That's good stuff.
00:18:36.360 --> 00:18:42.680
So it's just like adding a little bit of consent into each step of it.
00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:48.280
Now you said that there's six main flows every company should have.
00:18:48.760 --> 00:18:50.520
We've talked about a couple of them.
00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:52.760
What which ones are we missing?
00:18:53.400 --> 00:19:03.720
So the big ones, and I go between five and six, but for B2C, I would say that the absolutely critical flows are a lead nurture flow.
00:19:04.040 --> 00:19:11.720
So this is where you've already spent money and time trying to acquire customers, but they haven't they haven't taken that first step.
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:17.640
And so that's like always, always an opportunity that I see, especially the earlier stage you go.
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:27.160
Because again, like we're busy, founders are super busy, and like you're really gonna chase the leads that are like warm or hot instead of kind of dealing with the ones that aren't.
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:32.040
But it the ones that aren't, they just might need a little bit more context, or maybe they're shopping around a little bit more.
00:19:32.120 --> 00:19:35.080
So lead nurture flow, onboarding flow.
00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:44.920
So, and again, this is gonna vary based on your business and stuff, but your onboarding flow is really gonna go and work in parallel with your product onboarding.
00:19:45.160 --> 00:20:07.400
And so think of your onboarding flow as like your flow that kind of lives in the stages that your customer is going to be going through while they're onboarding or as they just got through onboarding, and you're trying to reconnect the value that they're experiencing in the product in a like, you know, in a in an offline manner or whatever, like through email and SMS.
00:20:07.560 --> 00:20:09.320
So onboarding flow is key.
00:20:09.560 --> 00:20:12.040
Onboarding is directly tied to retention.
00:20:12.120 --> 00:20:22.920
And so, like what we found is that if if you've got a good product and you don't have amazing retention, sometimes tweaking onboarding is the fastest.
00:20:23.080 --> 00:20:33.000
Usually, see, changing onboarding is the fastest way to kind of increase retention by either personalizing the experience a little bit more or explaining the value a little bit more.
00:20:33.080 --> 00:20:36.760
It doesn't always work, but you can couple that with email and SMS.
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:41.720
Um, the third key flow would be around abandoned cart.
00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:46.600
And a lot of people like just assume abandoned cart is just e-commerce, but it's not.
00:20:46.680 --> 00:21:07.160
So if you run service-based retail or really anything where somebody started to go down the path of monetization and then stopped, if you have if you have a way to kind of see that those events were happening and you've got that person's info, you can come back with a really compelling offer or another touch point that could work well.
00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:09.320
Can we pause there for one second?
00:21:09.560 --> 00:21:17.880
Because I can see how that would work too, with like a lot of the people who listen to the show are consultants, they're service providers.
00:21:18.120 --> 00:21:22.040
And maybe you sent a proposal and just got ghosted.
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:29.480
So you can use this abandoned cart, like a version of it to reinvigorate that conversation.
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:37.800
It's actually for B2B, it's an amazing, like it's a really amazing way to automate the touch points.
00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.960
And so you and you have to do it in a non-obnoxious way.
00:21:42.040 --> 00:21:45.320
And it has to, I the general rule is like it always has to be value add.
00:21:45.560 --> 00:21:49.080
So if you don't have anything to say, don't don't say anything.
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.480
But you should probably have something interesting to say if you're trying to sell something.
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:56.840
It may be that the person's just it's not the right time or whatever.
00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:05.560
And so combinations of like rhetorical questions um plus uh things like case studies or social proof tend to work really well.
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:25.000
And in the goal for abandoned cart um with B2B, at least the my goal typically is to either uh qualify or unqualify somebody because I don't want to keep chasing somebody that is like price shopping with with some other you know company that I just can't compete with, right?
00:22:25.080 --> 00:22:32.840
Because we just we're like working on different like sets of value for the for the like what we focus on is different and monetize is different.
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.760
So yeah, that's a really, really good one for a B2B.
00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:40.120
Fourth one would be an upsell flow.
00:22:40.440 --> 00:23:07.080
So if you've sold somebody um, you know, let's say you sell a course and you've got a book, that's a great way to kind of cross-sell and upsell additional value on top of what they purchased, with um, you know, I've got clients that maybe one's got a um, you know, a set of um uh like health and beauty spas and salons.
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:16.040
And so if somebody comes in for a treatment, upselling them onto a product that's relevant to like the treatment they just had is really compelling.
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:24.840
And a lot of that happens in studio, but much of it also does happen seven days or 14 days after they came in in person for whatever they were doing.
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:28.920
Um, and then another one that's often overlooked, and then I'll pause, is Sunset Flow.
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:32.200
You know, Sunset Flow is like it's basically the email.
00:23:32.760 --> 00:23:38.760
Flow that you put people into um when they're not responding to anything, and then you take them off your list.
00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:39.880
Okay.
00:23:40.040 --> 00:23:42.200
I have questions about that because I haven't heard of it.
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:46.680
Real quick though, I want to go that one flow backwards.
00:23:46.840 --> 00:23:47.160
Yeah.
00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:49.960
Because I want to touch on what you said.
00:23:50.120 --> 00:23:53.960
Seven to 14 days, they usually come back needing that.
00:23:54.120 --> 00:23:58.840
And I want to talk about how that is in like the B2B world too.
00:23:59.000 --> 00:23:59.320
Yeah.
00:23:59.560 --> 00:24:02.760
Because like in my world, I'll sell a gateway offer.
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:03.160
Yep.
00:24:03.320 --> 00:24:11.000
And if it doesn't upsell on like the review call into a main, a high-ticket offer, that's where it usually happens.
00:24:11.080 --> 00:24:15.240
Just like in the salon, they usually buy the product right after their treatment.
00:24:15.560 --> 00:24:23.160
But if that doesn't happen, that seven to 14 days also gives them time to sit in that pain a little bit.
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:25.560
They tried to solve the problem themselves.
00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:27.240
They've learned that they can't.
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:36.920
So that's also a great time to come back and reignite that conversation because they've had the time to learn like that isn't actually something I would want to do.
00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:39.480
And now I feel awkward going back to them.
00:24:39.560 --> 00:24:41.880
But if you go back to them, it's different.
00:24:42.360 --> 00:24:43.720
Well, yeah, it is.
00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:53.800
And so it's like, and that's where I think you're the important piece is kind of understanding like what's the natural evolution of like the process and what are the time frames.
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.600
So there's no hard and fast rules with this stuff.
00:24:56.840 --> 00:25:06.120
But it's funny because um, like oftentimes I'll I will get a lead that it comes in.
00:25:06.360 --> 00:25:08.280
I get two types of leads that come in.
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:18.280
One, they're just like some event happened and they need usually like a marketer got fired or left or something, and they just they desperately need help.
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:21.400
And if they don't get help right now, they're in big trouble.
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:30.200
Um, and the other is that like they're in this explorer mode where they're kind of like maybe opportunistically looking at what else is out there on the market.
00:25:30.360 --> 00:25:33.720
And for those, so the for the first one, it's a totally different game, right?
00:25:33.800 --> 00:25:36.440
Like it's a different easy, it's like okay, let's go.
00:25:36.760 --> 00:25:40.360
It wins like does our price and value align to what you have, yes or no?
00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.280
And it's like we can get that done quickly.
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:55.720
But the ones that are kind of in explorer mode, if if they go dark for a couple weeks, I know generally that either they're really busy or they're shopping around for price.
00:25:55.800 --> 00:26:01.640
And so what I try to do in my automations and my follow-ups is address those two points.
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:02.920
Do you need more time?
00:00:34.329 --> 00:00:35.850
00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:38.009
00:00:38.329 --> 00:00:42.489
00:00:42.649 --> 00:00:46.810
00:00:46.969 --> 00:00:54.890
00:00:55.450 --> 00:00:56.729
00:00:56.810 --> 00:01:08.250
00:01:08.650 --> 00:01:13.769
00:01:14.170 --> 00:01:35.609
00:01:35.849 --> 00:01:42.330
00:01:42.490 --> 00:01:45.370
00:01:45.689 --> 00:01:46.330
00:01:46.729 --> 00:01:52.169
00:01:52.650 --> 00:02:00.009
00:02:00.250 --> 00:02:02.490
00:02:03.050 --> 00:02:04.090
00:02:04.250 --> 00:02:25.449
00:02:25.530 --> 00:02:32.889
00:02:32.969 --> 00:02:43.050
00:02:43.210 --> 00:02:48.810
00:02:48.969 --> 00:02:54.090
00:02:54.170 --> 00:03:12.650
00:03:12.969 --> 00:03:16.090
00:03:16.409 --> 00:03:19.289
00:03:19.450 --> 00:03:26.650
00:03:27.129 --> 00:03:35.689
00:03:35.849 --> 00:03:43.210
00:03:43.450 --> 00:04:07.689
00:04:07.930 --> 00:04:10.330
00:04:10.409 --> 00:04:20.009
00:04:20.089 --> 00:04:23.209
00:04:23.529 --> 00:04:23.849
00:04:24.730 --> 00:04:30.409
00:04:30.730 --> 00:04:32.490
00:04:33.050 --> 00:04:33.370
00:04:33.529 --> 00:04:43.050
00:04:43.209 --> 00:04:47.689
00:04:47.769 --> 00:04:48.889
00:04:49.129 --> 00:04:57.209
00:04:57.289 --> 00:05:08.649
00:05:08.810 --> 00:05:13.370
00:05:13.449 --> 00:05:20.569
00:05:20.810 --> 00:05:34.250
00:05:34.329 --> 00:05:48.009
00:05:48.169 --> 00:05:55.209
00:05:55.289 --> 00:06:13.370
00:06:13.609 --> 00:06:17.370
00:06:17.609 --> 00:06:19.289
00:06:19.449 --> 00:06:22.089
00:06:22.409 --> 00:06:22.649
00:06:22.729 --> 00:06:22.969
00:06:23.129 --> 00:06:32.969
00:06:33.129 --> 00:06:42.729
00:06:42.810 --> 00:06:45.769
00:06:46.009 --> 00:06:49.049
00:06:49.289 --> 00:06:49.449
00:06:49.529 --> 00:06:51.129
00:06:51.209 --> 00:06:53.529
00:06:53.609 --> 00:06:56.649
00:06:56.729 --> 00:06:58.409
00:06:58.489 --> 00:06:59.129
00:06:59.209 --> 00:07:01.049
00:07:01.289 --> 00:07:04.009
00:07:04.169 --> 00:07:13.609
00:07:13.769 --> 00:07:18.810
00:07:19.049 --> 00:07:29.529
00:07:29.769 --> 00:07:32.489
00:07:32.649 --> 00:07:34.969
00:07:35.289 --> 00:07:35.609
00:07:37.049 --> 00:07:38.169
00:07:38.250 --> 00:07:42.729
00:07:43.209 --> 00:07:53.209
00:07:53.449 --> 00:08:02.329
00:08:02.489 --> 00:08:24.569
00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:30.250
00:08:30.409 --> 00:08:33.690
00:08:33.850 --> 00:08:40.009
00:08:40.090 --> 00:08:49.210
00:08:49.370 --> 00:08:51.450
00:08:51.529 --> 00:08:52.570
00:08:52.970 --> 00:08:55.769
00:08:55.929 --> 00:09:03.289
00:09:03.450 --> 00:09:04.090
00:09:04.169 --> 00:09:09.289
00:09:09.529 --> 00:09:15.529
00:09:15.610 --> 00:09:19.769
00:09:19.850 --> 00:09:26.809
00:09:26.970 --> 00:09:34.889
00:09:34.970 --> 00:09:37.209
00:09:37.289 --> 00:09:41.129
00:09:41.370 --> 00:09:47.049
00:09:47.129 --> 00:10:02.250
00:10:02.329 --> 00:10:04.329
00:10:04.490 --> 00:10:08.809
00:10:08.970 --> 00:10:18.569
00:10:18.649 --> 00:10:21.769
00:10:21.929 --> 00:10:24.169
00:10:24.569 --> 00:10:29.610
00:10:29.689 --> 00:10:37.370
00:10:37.449 --> 00:10:41.850
00:10:42.250 --> 00:10:42.809
00:10:43.289 --> 00:10:48.730
00:10:48.809 --> 00:10:50.649
00:10:50.970 --> 00:10:55.049
00:10:55.129 --> 00:10:58.970
00:10:59.129 --> 00:11:09.610
00:11:09.689 --> 00:11:11.289
00:11:11.370 --> 00:11:14.250
00:11:14.569 --> 00:11:15.769
00:11:16.009 --> 00:11:19.769
00:11:19.929 --> 00:11:32.090
00:11:32.569 --> 00:11:51.610
00:11:52.090 --> 00:11:54.090
00:11:54.569 --> 00:12:08.090
00:12:08.250 --> 00:12:14.090
00:12:14.409 --> 00:12:15.929
00:12:16.009 --> 00:12:21.769
00:12:22.490 --> 00:12:22.970
00:12:23.289 --> 00:12:32.009
00:12:32.090 --> 00:12:39.529
00:12:39.610 --> 00:12:41.049
00:12:41.289 --> 00:12:47.370
00:12:47.449 --> 00:13:01.529
00:13:01.689 --> 00:13:07.610
00:13:07.689 --> 00:13:09.610
00:13:09.689 --> 00:13:16.730
00:13:16.970 --> 00:13:26.329
00:13:26.490 --> 00:13:37.689
00:13:37.850 --> 00:13:46.569
00:13:46.970 --> 00:13:52.169
00:13:52.329 --> 00:13:58.090
00:13:58.970 --> 00:15:06.200
00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:24.840
00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:28.200
00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:33.720
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:35.720
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:39.159
00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:47.159
00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:50.519
00:15:50.680 --> 00:15:57.879
00:15:58.040 --> 00:16:10.440
00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:21.800
00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:24.440
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:28.040
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:34.519
00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:53.480
00:16:53.639 --> 00:17:00.840
00:17:00.920 --> 00:17:05.720
00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:11.879
00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:24.839
00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.720
00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:29.319
00:17:29.399 --> 00:17:41.480
00:17:41.639 --> 00:17:54.200
00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:54.920
00:17:55.079 --> 00:18:05.080
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:17.240
00:18:17.320 --> 00:18:21.480
00:18:21.800 --> 00:18:23.160
00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:26.200
00:18:26.600 --> 00:18:32.759
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:33.560
00:18:33.800 --> 00:18:34.360
00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:35.560
00:18:36.360 --> 00:18:42.680
00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:48.280
00:18:48.760 --> 00:18:50.520
00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:52.760
00:18:53.400 --> 00:19:03.720
00:19:04.040 --> 00:19:11.720
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:17.640
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:27.160
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:32.040
00:19:32.120 --> 00:19:35.080
00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:44.920
00:19:45.160 --> 00:20:07.400
00:20:07.560 --> 00:20:09.320
00:20:09.560 --> 00:20:12.040
00:20:12.120 --> 00:20:22.920
00:20:23.080 --> 00:20:33.000
00:20:33.080 --> 00:20:36.760
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:41.720
00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:46.600
00:20:46.680 --> 00:21:07.160
00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:09.320
00:21:09.560 --> 00:21:17.880
00:21:18.120 --> 00:21:22.040
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:29.480
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:37.800
00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.960
00:21:42.040 --> 00:21:45.320
00:21:45.560 --> 00:21:49.080
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.480
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:56.840
00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:05.560
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:25.000
00:22:25.080 --> 00:22:32.840
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.760
00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:40.120
00:22:40.440 --> 00:23:07.080
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:16.040
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:24.840
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:28.920
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:32.200
00:23:32.760 --> 00:23:38.760
00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:39.880
00:23:40.040 --> 00:23:42.200
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:46.680
00:23:46.840 --> 00:23:47.160
00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:49.960
00:23:50.120 --> 00:23:53.960
00:23:54.120 --> 00:23:58.840
00:23:59.000 --> 00:23:59.320
00:23:59.560 --> 00:24:02.760
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:03.160
00:24:03.320 --> 00:24:11.000
00:24:11.080 --> 00:24:15.240
00:24:15.560 --> 00:24:23.160
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:25.560
00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:27.240
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:36.920
00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:39.480
00:24:39.560 --> 00:24:41.880
00:24:42.360 --> 00:24:43.720
00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:53.800
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.600
00:24:56.840 --> 00:25:06.120
00:25:06.360 --> 00:25:08.280
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:18.280
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:21.400
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:30.200
00:25:30.360 --> 00:25:33.720
00:25:33.800 --> 00:25:36.440
00:25:36.760 --> 00:25:40.360
00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.280
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:55.720
00:25:55.800 --> 00:26:01.640
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:02.920