Dec. 27, 2025

Ep 169: Learn To Weave Your Offer Into Every Story You Tell And Sell More With Less Effort

Ep 169: Learn To Weave Your Offer Into Every Story You Tell And Sell More With Less Effort

Send us a text We share a warm holiday intro, then dive into Kendall Cherry’s practical playbook for selling through story. We unpack case studies that convert, day-in-the-life frameworks, attraction and repelling, and how a content ecosystem can replace most sales calls. • using bottom-of-funnel case studies that show the real before and after • writing day-in-the-life and vision casting stories with concrete detail • threading offers into every post with subtle, soft selling • attracting r...

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Season 5

Send us a text

We share a warm holiday intro, then dive into Kendall Cherry’s practical playbook for selling through story. We unpack case studies that convert, day-in-the-life frameworks, attraction and repelling, and how a content ecosystem can replace most sales calls.

• using bottom-of-funnel case studies that show the real before and after
• writing day-in-the-life and vision casting stories with concrete detail
• threading offers into every post with subtle, soft selling
• attracting right-fit buyers while repelling poor fits to save time
• designing a no-calls-needed sales ecosystem with guides, forms, and video proposals
• staying consistent instead of relying on referrals and launch spikes
• sharing processed lessons learned without performative vulnerability
• leveraging a unique origin story as your competitive moat
• aligning sales design with energy, values, and delivery model

So now that this episode is over, this is what I want you to do. Audit your content. Does every post that you've created in the last seven days, let's say, subtly sell? Are you hinting or nodding or threading your offer into the content and the stories that you're telling? Incorporate storytelling in your marketing, particularly around client case studies, so people can visualize themselves in the place of your current clients. Clarify your messaging to both attract and repel potential clients. It will save you so much time on unnecessary sales calls. Build a streamlined sales process that works for you. So everybody's sales process is a little different. You need it to work for the life that you have and your business and your offers. So build one that you actually love. And last, embrace the long game, nurture leads so they become ready to work with you. You love all things tiny marketing. Head down to the show notes page and sign up for the wait list to join the Tiny Marketing Club, where you get to work one on one with me with trainings, feedback, and pop up coaching that will help you scale your marketing as a B2B service business.


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00:00 - Holiday Intro And Top Episode Reveal

03:21 - Why Every Story Should Sell

08:32 - Case Studies That Convert Bottom Of Funnel

16:14 - Attracting The Right Clients And Repelling Wrong Fits

20:34 - Replacing Sales Calls With A Content Ecosystem

28:19 - Day-In-The-Life And Vision Casting Frameworks

35:04 - Consistency Over Referrals And Feast-Famine

42:59 - Lessons Learned Without Performative Vulnerability

51:14 - Design Sales To Fit Your Energy And Style

57:54 - The Power Of A Unique Origin Story

01:07:24 - Growth, Grief, And Business Resilience

01:15:24 - How To Work With Kendall And Closing Actions

WEBVTT

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This is Sarah Blah Block, a podcast that helps B2B service businesses do more with less.

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Learn lean, actionable, organic marketing strategies you can implement today.

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No fluff, just powerful growth tactics that work.

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Ready to scale smarter?

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Hit that subscribe button and start growing your business with tiny marketing.

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This week I am sharing a Merry Christmas episode.

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It is actually, okay, so I didn't know this before, but Spotify for Podcasts, which is now called Creator for Podcasts.

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Thank you, Melissa, for letting me know they changed their name.

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Um, they make a podcaster wrapped.

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So I learned that on Spotify, one, I made it into over 100 people's Spotify wrapped lists, which is freaking awesome.

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But two, the biggest episode on Spotify has been this one.

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It's Kundal Cherry sharing how stories can help you sell.

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So that's the episode I am sharing as a replay for Christmas week.

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And I just want to say thank you to all of you who come and hang out with me every single Sunday.

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And I love you.

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I appreciate you.

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And like it blows my mind that you bring me into your world every week and listen to me chit-chat about marketing and sales and biz dev and offers.

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I so, so appreciate you.

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And I hope you have an amazing 2026.

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Enjoy Kendall Cherry's episode on stories that sell for you.

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Today I have Kendall Cherry talking about how you can create stories that sell for you.

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Today we're talking about how to sell in every story that we tell.

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So we're on a little selling binge right now.

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Today, I want you to really dig in and understand how every piece of content should sell for you.

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You should be able to tie in your offer to whatever story you're telling.

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And another takeaway that I think that you're gonna get from this is the importance of attraction and repelling.

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So a lot of us come from this state of mind where it's really difficult when someone doesn't like us.

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But when you own a business, I mean, when you're human in general, not everyone's gonna like you.

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You're just you're a person like the rest of us, and not everyone's gonna vibe with you, and not everyone vibes with me for sure.

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Just look in my comments.

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But the thing is, intentionally attracting and repelling by using your transformational promises, your messaging, your stories, who you work with in the right way, you're gonna pull in the right people and repel those red flags right from your content.

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And then last, I really want you to understand how a well-designed sales ecosystem eliminates the needs for sales calls.

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So by the end of this episode, you're gonna understand how to sell without having to hop on a call beforehand.

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So I hope you enjoyed.

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And if you did, once you're done with this episode, it's a long one, by the way.

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Kendall and I really vibed.

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Um, tell me in the comments.

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Wherever you're listening or watching this, there are comments there.

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So let me know what you learned from this.

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All right.

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Enjoy.

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Hey, so I am Kendall Cherry.

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I am the founder and executive ghostwriter here at the Candid Collective.

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And we're on a mission to create a world that's more candid and kind.

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So most of my clients and just people on the internet, they're always asking me, like, what does a ghostwriter do?

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And I think the marketing world is changing a lot the more you know we see things transform with AI.

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But to me, ghostwriting is kind of this sweet spot of writing copy, writing content.

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But to me, in kind of the modern world, ghostwriting is really about sales skills and how to write content that closes B2B sales, especially if you're somewhere like LinkedIn.

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And so that is kind of my special sauce when it comes to the writing, where it's kind of this fun, you know, it's subliminal.

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It's like, is she selling?

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Is she not?

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But you would never do this.

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But I have this, I have this personal rule where I'm like, every post has to be selling, even if it doesn't sound like I'm selling.

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Me too.

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It's so rare.

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Yes.

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I figured it is so rare that I meet people who agree with that.

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Why would you write anything that doesn't at least like nod to your offer?

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Let's go, let's go there.

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Let's go there.

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I think, oh, I don't know.

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I have so many like hot takes on this, but let's hear all of your hot takes.

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Let's hear all of them.

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I just hear, man, we should come and swinging right out the gate, the Kendall Cherry way.

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I just think that a lot of times people right now, especially in the like creator economy, is so like the sexy buzzword and you know, building an audience and monetizing and all these things and monetizing content, which is great.

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But I think that when we're writing content, all of these courses that people buy from big name creators, they're always talking about the writing.

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Not once have I ever seen a course that's like, these are the sales skills that you need to have in your writing in order to close sales for content that converts.

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It's there, they doesn't exist.

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It's not right.

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You're right.

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And I just I see all these people that are like, yeah, you know, I'm showing up, I'm writing, and I swear this is like a real example because I I I get like really fiery on LinkedIn because I I know the implications if you're not selling your business, can't stay in business, and that's just the cold hard truth.

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And I just remember looking in December, I was scrolling and someone was like, on LinkedIn, they posted a selfie with a car seat which a with a bunch of Cheerios in their back seat, and they were like, This is what these Cheerios taught me about B2B sales, and I'm like, Oh, what what are we doing here?

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What are we doing here?

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And so it's it's there's so many things to unpack, but it's I I think they're I don't know, it's like digital marketers a lot of times, you know, we're so focused on the content, but like marketing is really and truly like it's a signal, but sales is the message, that's that's the wording that goes out.

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And I think so many people are afraid to sell, or there's there's much to unpack there, but that's my first, my first hot take is I don't know, create are creator courses teaching you how to sell or are they teaching you how to write?

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I don't know.

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Uh they're teaching you how to write, absolutely.

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Because I as like my formal education is in writing and marketing.

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Yep.

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And I've only ever learned how to write, and it just came through being a marketer and only actually scratch that because I was in marketing for like 10 or maybe 15 years before I started my business, and selling wasn't even really on my radar until I had to sell for my own business.

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And I was like, well, I really need to figure out how to do this.

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And that's when I was like, I don't have time to separate these worlds, it needs to connect.

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And that is the only out of necessity, is the only reason that I realized I should always be selling.

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Every piece of content should lead to an offer.

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Yeah, let's talk about that selling, that subliminal selling, because I like that you talked about that.

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I always talk about like subtle selling, nod to selling, soft selling.

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And it's really just like weaving in your offers into stories.

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Can you tell me how you do that and how other people can emulate it?

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Yeah.

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So I have a few like story frameworks that I really like to lean on, which spoiler alert, they're rooted rooted in sales, not in writing.

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Um, but there's a few stories that I think work really, really well.

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The biggest one that I see that there's a lot of like subconscious like discomfort because I think a lot of times it's it's different.

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I I get a lot of clients that I work with where they're like, I used to work, you know, decades in tech sales or whatever else.

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They understand sales.

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They understand, like to own a business that runs on sales, you have to sell.

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Like they get the basics.

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Yeah.

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And then there's like a weird thing that happens when you're like, but I have to sell myself.

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And I have to like read about myself.

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And you're like, wait, no, no, no, no.

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And it goes against everything, you know, that we're taught.

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I will say I also write for probably 95% minority business owners, so women, people of color, LGBTQ, or some kind of intersectional.

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This is like one of the biggest behaviors I see is this like fear of visibility, fear of accepting money, wanting to do good, authenticity and integrity are some of the biggest values that my customers tend to have.

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And so there's this big, like, I don't know, it's like this big moral battle, honestly, internally, of like, well, if I make money, am I a bad person?

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And it's like, no, you're you can you can use money as a tool for many, many, many things.

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But I think the one story that people get wrong, and it it's it's hitting right on the like, am I gonna brag?

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Am I I've got to be humble?

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It is, I call it a money-making testimonial, but it's basically your client case study.

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It's this is the client and the transformation.

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This is the before and after, this is what happened, this is how I saw the problem and how I solved it.

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And ew, the part everyone hates.

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What are the results?

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It might look like it might look like revenue wins, it might look like time saved or you know, other areas of a UVP, but it's those stories that people want to see mirrored before they're gonna invest in you, especially if you're selling anything remotely high ticket.

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So that one, I it's like I see people on LinkedIn and they're like, five stars, photo of the client, copy paste testimonial.

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And I'm like, you're making the customer do so much work trying to interpret the value versus you just telling them the transformation.

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So yeah, that's usually the the one I see the most.

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Anytime I see the five gold stars on LinkedIn, I'm like, oh God, like what are we what are we doing here?

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Yeah, no, I'm with you.

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So the topic that you had called out was the top five selling story frameworks.

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Yeah.

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And I have used this one that you're talking about, and you're right.

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And it's actually worked on me.

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I started using it because I was like, oh damn.

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It's bottom of the funnel sales, baby.

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It's bottom of the funnel.

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I can track because I I do it now like clockwork.

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I I have a rule every two weeks, it's going on LinkedIn.

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Once a month, it's going to my email list.

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I can track when I send one of those.

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We've got inquiries coming through.

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Like it's almost, almost like clockwork because it's it's the bottom of the funnel selling, but you have to kind of like face your own demons and your own fears of like, uh, but I, you know, I don't want to be too raggy.

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And I sometimes hear people too, they'll say, like, you know, I I don't want to use my client's story, or it has to be anonymous.

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Most of the clients I tell the story about, they're like, please tell this story.

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This is crazy.

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You made me like a ton of money.

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Like, I want you to, I want you to tell my story, or they win time back, or they win time with their kids.

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Like, I don't know, those are the things most people are actually really excited that you got to partner with them.

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But there's this like weird, again, it's it's kind of, I don't know if it's a confidence thing or a visibility thing, but it's one of the most important parts of of the storytelling that I think we need to be sharing.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I get where they're coming from.

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I feel uncomfortable like calling out specific clients.

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I'll usually change their name when I'm telling the story.

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So I don't, I don't want them feeling like I'm monetizing their experience.

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And maybe that's just like just ask their permission.

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Yeah, just say, hey, can I can I write this story about you?

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That's a that's the biggest thing I've learned is like anytime because I used to have people like screenshotting, like, holy shit.

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And they'd share stuff and be like, can I can I share this with like the context?

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And I think that's the the big thing is we live in this like very um, I'll say like highlight real world.

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We don't know if you know, is it all-time revenue?

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Is it like some numbers you inflated?

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There's the really yeah, and so when it's and so it's this again, it's kind of the sphere of like, well, I want to be in integrity, so I'm not gonna do it at all.

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That's that's not the answer.

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So I always say, like, you know, ask for permission if you really feel uncomfortable, like send it to your client to approve before it goes out, and then add it to your library.

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It's to me, it's worth the investment to have like have it written, have it approved by someone if that's something that makes you uncomfortable.

00:14:52.960 --> 00:15:04.480
But the visibility is so much more important because it's it's not just about like how much money you could make, but if you do deeply transformational work, which we all do, like those those are other clients that you could be helping.

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Yeah, if you can, if you're comfortable with getting the story out there.

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The money is just like the extra on top.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I want to add like calling out their niche or like who they are in that post helps a lot too, because then other people that are within that niche or that role can be like, oh, oh, that's me.

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That could be me.

00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:29.920
Totally.

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Yeah, people, I think a lot of times your customers, like sometimes, especially with higher ticket stuff, sometimes they just need permission that it's okay for them to invest in you.

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Even if it's like number of years in business, whatever levels of nuance you can include, background, you know, this is why the before picture is so important, not just the after, but like really painting the picture so it's you know universal enough.

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People really like, if if I'm gonna invest a lot of money, like I want to know that it's I'm gonna get the outcome that I want.

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And I also want to see it interpreted in more than just a sales page.

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I don't want to just be like, okay, pain point one, two, three, four, five.

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Like, I want to see this, the story, the richness, the nuance to understand, like, like paint me a picture.

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What does this actually look like?

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Vision cast for me.

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Like, is this even something that I want?

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Or would there be another provider that could maybe, you know, do something a little bit different that I'm looking for?

00:16:25.760 --> 00:16:36.240
But like you win all the way around, whether it's qualifying leads, disqualifying leads, attracting repelling, it it kind of serves every function in the marketing department.

00:16:36.560 --> 00:16:36.960
Yeah.

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People underestimate the value of repelling because you're on a lot less sales calls that go nowhere.

00:16:44.400 --> 00:16:45.440
Well my gosh.

00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:45.840
Yeah.

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So I don't even like really get on sales calls very much anymore.

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It is pretty rare for me because my content and the ecosystem is kind of selling for me all the time.

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So whether it's on LinkedIn or the emails that we have, my services guide, I've got this really great ecosystem where I I don't, first off, I don't have to get on sales calls.

00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:09.680
And pretty much any inquiry that's coming through, I'm like, yep, I can help them.

00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:10.400
I can help them.

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I I don't, I typically don't even really reject people at this point.

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And and if I do, it's someone where I'm like, okay, you're not quite where I need you to be, go read this book.

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And then we'll be ready.

00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:36.000
But it's it's the repelling thing, it's like, I don't want to use my energy like repelling people because I do want to help, but I I just need you to be in a certain either like mental space or like level of business comfort.

00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.079
Your offer has to be at a certain place.

00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:42.799
Um, or if you're gonna hire me to fix it, know that it's gonna be an investment.

00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:55.920
But um, yeah, the rep the repelling is such a huge, it's definitely one of one of the better revenue generating like areas if you can can it kind of amp that up in your your content as well.

00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.839
Yeah, and I think that it probably flips people on their head.

00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:12.880
They're like, wait, telling like describing who you don't want to work with, like pushing people away is is helping you sell, and it really, it really does, and you waste so much less time.

00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:21.759
I'm curious though about your sales process because you have a service, and it's not always easy to sell a service without a sales call.

00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.079
So, do you have an application process?

00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:26.319
No, not really.

00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.680
So I pretty much my inquiry form is my application.

00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:31.680
So it is, it is at this point.

00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:40.400
It I I think for me a few years ago, I I was kind of in this place where I was getting, you know, qualified and disqualified leads.

00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:46.240
And I I needed a way because I just, you know, I was sitting on the sales calls and I was like, well, we're having the same conversation.

00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:51.920
Like this is just I, you know, not that I don't love my clients, but that's that's time that I could be writing for them.

00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:59.039
And so um for me, the the kind of sales process really looks like you know, lead gen from whatever source.

00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:00.720
So that could be usually LinkedIn.

00:19:00.879 --> 00:19:04.000
That's kind of the only place I'm doing any kind of marketing right now.

00:19:04.159 --> 00:19:07.359
So someone gets into my ether, whichever way.

00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.159
Most of the time, people end up on my email list.

00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:13.119
Uh I have an email newsletter called Wallflower Fridays.

00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:21.039
I go more into the specifics of, you know, how to tell stories that sell, but I do that newsletter on Fridays and then on Mondays I send a sales email.

00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.440
That spoiler alert, it's from a content library.

00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:25.440
It's not, I'm not writing it fresh every week.

00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:28.879
It's it's it's a six-month content library that runs back.

00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:34.319
And um, I have a service guide where I don't post my pricing anywhere online.

00:19:34.399 --> 00:19:37.519
So a lot of times people are kind of looking for what it is that I do.

00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:48.559
The content's already kind of I'll say customer acquisition-wise, like people are if they're downloading the services guide, like they're probably 90% sold already on wanting to work with in particular.

00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:58.079
And so that's where they get, you know, here's my process, here's the pricing, here's all the things, here's how the wait list works, you know, here's the form if and when you're ready.

00:19:58.159 --> 00:20:05.039
And then the inquiry form is the application, you know, but it's it's pretty in-depth.

00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:09.599
Someone told me once last year, I was like, ooh, I'm sorry, but that's why I know you're gonna want to work with me.

00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.399
And he was like, This took me like an hour to put the fill.

00:20:12.639 --> 00:20:13.279
I don't know why.

00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:27.680
But it it kind of does weed out, like either someone's gonna take the time to fill it out, and I'm gonna get a lot of great data and know exactly what they need and what the problems are, and I can diagnose it in you know, seconds after saying kind of what's going on.

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:46.000
But it's also this really great way for someone to do their own self-reflection process to where when I send a proposal out, because I don't get on a phone call, I just pretty much say, if they're aligned, which they mostly are, here's what I think you need, here's a video proposal that takes the place of a you know sales call.

00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:50.240
Me just saying, like, this is what I think you need, don't need, this is what I would do if it were me.

00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:56.319
I usually ask for the budget like explicitly and work with them to see what makes the most sense.

00:20:56.399 --> 00:21:06.720
But it's not, it's not, I I just hated like even the idea of sales calls where I'd be like, oh my gosh, if I have one at 2 p.m., like my whole day is like waiting around for the sales call.

00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:07.359
Yeah.

00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:13.839
And especially as a writer, like it's really hard to get into the like creative kind of mode drone you need to be in.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:14.879
Start, start and stop.

00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:16.879
It doesn't really work that that way for me.

00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:20.720
I need like a full day of like airplane mode to really get into it.

00:21:20.879 --> 00:21:25.599
And so I just I just started seeing like, okay, what are some places and some stoppers?

00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:29.519
Like, I'm having the same, you know, questions usually on sales calls.

00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.240
Let me add a bunch of FAQs to my services guide.

00:21:32.399 --> 00:21:36.319
You know, I want people to get onto the email list and get to know me a little bit more.

00:21:36.399 --> 00:21:42.079
I don't normally like to work with people that aren't at least a bit little bit familiar with like who I am and what I do.

00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:46.799
I want someone that like respects what I'm doing, which is not just the storytelling and the sales.

00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:50.079
But it's my writing is usually a lot more nuanced.

00:21:50.159 --> 00:21:54.720
It's usually I've got, you know, three kind of sub-markets that I'm writing for all at once.

00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:59.599
And so I want someone that kind of also appreciates the craft a lot as well.

00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:05.920
I get people that are like, one of my clients was like, How come every single email you're writing is making me cry?

00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:08.559
And I'm like, I wrote it, I wrote it that way.

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:19.279
I wrote it that way intentionally because that for the kind of people that she's wanting to work with, like that works really well as kind of a coach and a consultant.

00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:32.879
And so it's it's getting people that really respect what I'm doing and the storytelling and the sales, but like appreciating the craft as much as well as because I want to work with people that get what I'm what I'm really doing over here.

00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:39.119
And so um more more repelling and you know, just creating more resonance wherever you can.

00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:40.399
No, that makes sense.

00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:46.639
So your sales process is built to attract and repel throughout the entire thing.

00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:49.519
So you have to do less of the manual selling.

00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:53.680
Yeah, I don't do I'm very anti-cold pitch.

00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:55.440
I do not do any of that.

00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:59.839
Um very much like you know, organic lead gen.

00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:06.960
And I and I just trust I've had clients who are like completely broke and like knew that they couldn't afford to pay me.

00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:08.319
And then what do you know?

00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:14.319
They have like a big splashy launch or like something finally kind of works, and then all of a sudden they've got budget to work with me.

00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:22.399
So online business changes so fast that I I want to attract people, you know, whether you get a huge windfall or whatever else.

00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:33.759
Like uh I just want to work with people that they they know that I'm the right fit, whether they're they're ready to invest like right this second, or I think the longest person, I call it a longtime lurker.

00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:42.879
So someone who's been in been in the audience, they're not really like liking anything because they, you know, if you like or comment, they think they're gonna get in this like like shitty sales process.

00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:48.159
Um, so they're very they they lurk, but they don't let me know that they're around until it's time.

00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:55.039
But my longest longtime lurker was like they were in my audience for nine years, which legit, that is law.

00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:59.039
Legit one, like let's flash back to where I was nine years ago.

00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.119
I was in college, I was an intern.

00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:04.240
Like, I didn't think it was a little baby.

00:24:04.399 --> 00:24:05.359
I wouldn't even know.

00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.639
I was like a social media manager before it was like cool.

00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:18.960
And it was someone that they just followed my LinkedIn story, they'd seen like the good, bad, and the truly atrocious of really shit like selling.

00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:27.200
But when it came time for them to need what I was doing, um, yeah, she she reached out, like she she'd seen it all.

00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:33.039
I mean, you pretty much poor baby Kindle didn't know I don't know anything about sales.

00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:36.079
I didn't go to school for anything sales related.

00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:40.879
Like I didn't learn, I didn't learn until probably a couple years ago really how it works.

00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:43.839
So she she really saw me.

00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:45.920
And the trade the transfer.

00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:48.319
And she loved me.

00:24:48.399 --> 00:24:53.920
And then when she knew she needed a ghostwriter, she was like, I'm working with you, I'm paying in full, like, let's do this thing.

00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:00.960
And I was like, like, I could have, I'm sorry, I could have just never, I could have never predicted something like that would happen.

00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:14.480
And that's that's the thing with sales, is like if you're open enough and like open for business enough, that's kind of what I always envision is like every morning I just hang on open for business side mentally, and I kind of just see what happens.

00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:25.599
And my my funnest client stories, like the the weird synchronicities, like they always happen when I'm more open and I'm out of the spreadsheet trying to like reverse engineering everything.

00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:27.359
Yeah, yeah.

00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:31.680
I I love that, and I I've seen that myself too.

00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:38.079
And the longer that they're lurking, the more excited they are to work with you because it's the best.

00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.039
Yeah, they're secretly friends with you.

00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:44.960
It's like podcasts that you listen to where you're like, I feel like I know you.

00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:45.839
Oh my god.

00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:47.759
Yeah, I I had another longtime lurker.

00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.359
It's actually the girl, I think the best like little messaging quips.

00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:54.159
Like, I'm I'm a good writer, but like I don't come up with them.

00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:55.359
It's stuff like this.

00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:57.200
Is this girl actually?

00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:01.279
She in her inquiry form had said like longtime lurker, first time caller.

00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:02.960
And I was like, I'm stealing that.

00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:04.079
That's really good.

00:26:04.399 --> 00:26:08.399
But we had so we had a a discovery call for this project she needed help with.

00:26:08.639 --> 00:26:13.119
And if you didn't know, my brand marker is a sunflower, and you'll see them all over the place.

00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:19.839
My LinkedIn profile is made like jumping with freaking hair in the air and you know, flowers everywhere.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.440
Um, that was a poem.

00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:27.440
But um, so on our project kickoff call, she like wore her flowers, and I was like, Allison, did you wear those for me?

00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.399
And she was like, Yeah, I couldn't buy you flowers, so I figured I'd wear them.

00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:31.599
And I was like, That's cute.

00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:32.879
Like, so sweet.

00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:34.240
Like that's weird person.

00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:37.839
Yeah, well, and it's so genuine too.

00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:48.480
And I I think that's the thing, like we can get that can get lost a little bit in the online world, especially there's a very toxic side and like capitalistic side to kind of you know making money on the internet.

00:26:49.119 --> 00:27:01.359
And I think people forget, like, there's all those little magical moments that like that can happen, but it's never for me at least, it's never happened when I was like worrying about money, knee deep in my spreadsheet, stressed to the max.

00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:08.480
Like it usually happened when I was open, I was like enjoying myself, I was having fun, and then it's like the universe just drops in again.

00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:11.759
Yeah, buy you a bouquet, so she wears one for you.

00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:12.960
It's it's too good.

00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:14.000
It's too good.

00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:22.159
It I want to touch on that for a bit because your mental state has a huge impact on how you sell.

00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:28.639
At least that's my experience when I'm relaxed and I'm like, it's all gonna be fine.

00:27:28.879 --> 00:27:29.839
It is all fine.

00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:35.119
It works out, it always works, may not feel like it in the middle, like in the middle.

00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:46.559
I have been through the darkness, but it it always it always, it always works out, and it's every time I'm always like, shit, that was better than like even if I would have come up with that.

00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:54.079
Like I'm all the time where I'm like, I'm a writer, and like some of the shit that happened, like I couldn't even write this.

00:27:54.159 --> 00:27:59.599
Like, it's better if I don't worry about it, because then I get some crazy synchronicity or something else.

00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.559
So it's the unit is like, here you go.

00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:09.920
You know, here's a really great fun story, but it's it's so hard in the moment because we get, I mean, there's so many reasons, right?

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:11.279
There's so much pressure.

00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:18.960
I know I feel like this on LinkedIn, and I feel like I have a pretty solid like mindset and headspace when I'm like, should I be wanting to make more money?

00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:21.119
Should I have a two million dollar business already?

00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:22.399
Like, why am I behind?

00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:24.639
I'm not I'm not doing that.

00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:30.079
Like, I I I know what I'm here to do, I know what I'm wanting to do, and I'm really grounded in that.

00:28:30.159 --> 00:28:40.960
But it's it's really easy when a lot of people's marketing platforms can have a tendency to lean, you know, shame-based scarcity lack mentality.

00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:53.359
It can definitely, I mean, even the strongest mental people I think can can still fall, you know, victim to that or or feel influenced by it when a lot of the times too, some of the stuff they're posting isn't even true.

00:28:53.519 --> 00:29:01.039
But uh a lot of it, it's like when did this spreadsheet or like when this screenshot actually get taken?

00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:01.920
Like, come on.

00:29:02.159 --> 00:29:12.000
Yes, or they're only telling you a little piece of the story, so it looks so good and shiny, but in reality, they're in dead up to their eyeballs.

00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:13.599
Totally, totally.

00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:18.000
So we talked about one story telling framework.

00:29:18.639 --> 00:29:21.359
Um, we talked about our client stories.

00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.240
So let's get into the next one.

00:29:24.399 --> 00:29:26.559
How else can we sell through stories?

00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:31.359
Yeah, so the the next two, I'll say they kind of they kind of pair up together.

00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:33.759
This one is classic marketing.

00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:37.200
We love to talk about pain points and success factors.

00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:41.200
I think a lot of people feel really intimidated by talking about pain points.

00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:42.399
And they don't know.

00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:50.960
I know for me that was a hard thing at first where I was like, I'm not gonna capitalize on someone's pain points, but like to provide a solution, you must share what the problem is.

00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:54.559
Yeah, kind of that's just duality.

00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:55.920
That's just all that is.

00:29:56.159 --> 00:30:03.279
And so the thing with pain points that I found is a lot easier, they kind of go together is painting a picture of a day in the life.

00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:04.960
So you could do this.

00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:14.559
Um, you don't necessarily need to like use a fake name or anything, but just take someone through, like, you know, if it's painful right now, like I, you know, I bet you X, Y, Z.

00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:15.839
Like use examples.

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:20.720
I find that the more specific that you are, the more premium the sales messaging goes.

00:30:20.879 --> 00:30:23.119
So there's something I like to talk about.

00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:29.599
People use like, especially in AI world, like lowest common denominator messaging, it's the same thing.

00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:36.240
Like, if it's the most obvious pain point, you and your, you know, 50 other competitors have also thought of it.

00:30:36.639 --> 00:30:37.599
So don't use that.

00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.200
Like, so use more specific examples.

00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:51.839
And even if it feels like you're maybe siloing people out, this is more of a like a writing technique, but the more specific you are, the more universal the story becomes.

00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:07.759
So even if it feels like you're kind of pigeonholing something, I find that people can tune into the meaning of what you're saying and apply it to your own life versus, you know, you you use this big, I just picture like the ocean of you know, the most obvious example.

00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.759
Like you should hire like hire a writer so you don't have to write it.

00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.759
And it's like, okay, but there's there's like other ways you could say that.

00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:28.639
Um like day day in the life, you can do either um again, you can do it with pain points or success factors or solutions is is a really great one.

00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:43.519
And it's just vision casting, and it's just taking someone through like, you know, imagine what it would look like if, and and really just diving into what that could could be with your offer or your service or your product as the hero, really.

00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:45.599
That really does work.

00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:56.879
And I've I've I've been sold that way too, because your body honestly feels like a little looser when you hear that imagine statement.

00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:59.519
Like, well, right, I could imagine that.

00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:01.680
That is what my life looks like now.

00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:04.720
Now take me on that journey to show you how.

00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:07.359
Like, like, oh, someone finally gets it.

00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:11.680
Like, I know I feel it comes from like, you know, doing my best out here.

00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:19.119
And again, the more specific you are, the the more it tends to kind of lean into your actual experience.

00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:27.839
So even if it's not a hundred percent the same, it's the okay, well, this person works with someone that's kind of in my same, you know, what I'm going through.

00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:29.200
So they're gonna get it.

00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:42.319
And I think that that's so important for any any kind of providing a service is really making sure that the person you're gonna invest in gets what you're about, or at least close to around what you're about, I think.

00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:43.519
Yeah, yeah.

00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:48.319
And like a common pain point that lots of people are going through is they just don't have enough time.

00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:53.039
It's always like when what does the time mean?

00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:54.079
Tell me what the time means.

00:32:54.639 --> 00:32:55.039
Exactly.

00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:02.639
The thing I always think about is like, okay, time, yes, time is important, but also the the time represents something.

00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:05.039
Like, yes, time is also money.

00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:07.839
Like, that's another thing, is is time is money.

00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:16.480
And so I think that people just need that kind of example of what the time could be used for, what could the money from the time be used for?

00:33:16.639 --> 00:33:19.599
Like, there's a lot of examples that you could go into.

00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:37.039
Yeah, connect it, like look at some of your clients and see what they do with their spare time so you can connect the dots because it's very likely, like, if you like your clients and you want to clone them, that other people probably also want to do that with their spare time.

00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:37.759
Exactly.

00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:44.720
Yeah, that's that's something I think people don't do enough of either, is like they they think about like, oh, I gotta create original content.

00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:50.799
I'm like, no, no, you want to figure out a way to bottle up your best clients, your favorite people to work with.

00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:56.559
That's that's really the role of content, especially if you kind of like me, like I'm I'm purely evergreen.

00:33:56.639 --> 00:34:03.680
Like I have a huge content library I, you know, I've built over the years and that I lean on to help support the sales.

00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:11.839
But all of that, you're like, oh, post to support that kind of person I want, bottle it up, bottle it up, bottle it up, repurpose it.

00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:15.519
So then you're only you're not having to write content fresh all the time.

00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:21.039
It's the hardest part of your job is lead gen and connecting with new people and like letting the machine run.

00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:27.519
It's not let me manually sell and generate all these leads, and I have to write my content fresh every week.

00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:29.759
It's like some something's gotta give.

00:34:29.839 --> 00:34:31.279
Like, connect all of them.

00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:32.399
Connect all of them.

00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:34.879
I'm over here, like I'm a writer, and that's too much writing for me.

00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:36.960
Like, I don't want to do that.

00:34:37.279 --> 00:34:41.599
Like it's it's just it's just working smarter, not harder, I think.

00:34:41.839 --> 00:34:43.279
Yeah, it really is.

00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:46.879
Your sales, your marketing can connect, and so can your lead gen.

00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:52.719
All of that can be connected into one thing that a machine.

00:34:52.799 --> 00:35:03.599
I just picture, yeah, I just picture me as like I, you know, I stand back crossed, cross-armed, and I'm just watching the machine run, and I'm like doing maybe doing a little tweaks here and here, but I'm like, evergreen baby, long game.

00:35:03.759 --> 00:35:06.480
Like we're we're here, we're here.

00:35:06.799 --> 00:35:07.279
Yeah.

00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:08.960
Yeah, yeah.

00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:10.159
I completely get that.

00:35:10.319 --> 00:35:17.599
I always refer to my lean marketing engine because once you get that foundation, you get that machine running, it's just working for you.

00:35:17.759 --> 00:35:20.719
All you have to do is like stick with your routine.

00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:22.639
Yeah, stay consistent.

00:35:22.799 --> 00:35:24.000
It doesn't have to be this hot.

00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:30.079
Like, I know it feels hot and sexy to have the like you know, big highs, but then you also probably have the the big lows.

00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:31.279
I'm not a big fan of that.

00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:32.719
My nervous system doesn't like it.

00:35:32.799 --> 00:35:35.279
So like launch style.

00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:36.399
Oh, hell no.

00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:39.039
Like, I it's too risky.

00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:40.639
It's also just from a business perspective.

00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:41.279
It's too risky.

00:35:41.359 --> 00:35:41.759
I'm sorry.

00:35:41.839 --> 00:35:51.759
I don't want to have to close like 80% of my sales in one launch, and if it fails, but no, like I I have a small team.

00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:54.000
This is like the money I use to pay myself.

00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:55.679
I just am not comfortable with that.

00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.440
So no, ever evergreen all all day, every day.

00:35:59.759 --> 00:36:07.279
I like to do tiny launches because I like the style of them, yeah, but I'll do tiny launches like once a month.

00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:09.279
I'm gonna promote this thing.

00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:10.079
Oh yeah.

00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:18.000
So yeah, for me, I'm just and it's probably the nature of what I offer as well, which is like retainer content for you know, a six-month contract, maybe a project.

00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:19.199
Like, I don't know.

00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:28.719
And I get so booked in advance anyway, or I'll get like a random inquiry where I'm like, well, that was you know, a larger scope where like I couldn't have predicted that.

00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:35.759
So I I find launching has been hard just from a like scoping and capacity perspective, where I'm like, I don't, I don't know.

00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:39.039
Yeah, you know, I I always end up getting booked out a couple months in advance.

00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:40.559
I'm like well, yeah.

00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:46.320
If you have six month-long retainers, yeah, you probably don't have to do a ton of selling.

00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:49.840
You probably have way more inquiries than you actually need.

00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:50.880
Yes, yes.

00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:54.239
No, I ended up hiring a a writer to help me this year.

00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:57.279
I'm also writing a book in the background that I'll launch later this year.

00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:01.199
So I've had to kind of do some, you know, hiring support and that kind of thing.

00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:13.679
But yeah, it just it it just with the the longer contracts and kind of the one-off projects and everything, it it it doesn't need a bunch of fuel to make the sales engine run at this at this point.

00:37:13.759 --> 00:37:17.360
But I've, you know, I've been at it, I've tested a few things over the years too.

00:37:17.759 --> 00:37:18.719
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:26.320
In my first like three years, I was only doing retainers and I barely had to sell.

00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:27.440
It was so easy.

00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:28.000
Yeah.

00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:37.840
It's I think there, I mean, there's something about like retainers and also I'll say referral-based businesses that it sounds sexy, like, oh yeah, my business runs on referrals.

00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:40.239
And I'm like, I don't love that.

00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:42.480
I feel like, and this was just kind of my story.

00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:47.039
I felt like I kind of came in into this business in like 2020, 2021.

00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:50.880
And so everyone was, you know, all my peers were like, yeah, I'm booked out, I'm on referrals.

00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:54.639
And I'm like, I don't know what's going on with me, but that just wasn't the case for me.

00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:57.039
So I was having to learn really how to sell.

00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:03.039
Yeah, I just I just don't love referral-based businesses because you don't have any control over your client roster.

00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:03.840
Yes.

00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:08.000
Like, and the other thing is like, okay, you know, let's say Sarah's my client.

00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:12.239
Well, you know, Sarah told Veronica that I'm X amount per month.

00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:14.800
So now Veronica thinks that that's the amount they're gonna get.

00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.360
I'm like, no, no, I want to raise my prices.

00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:20.400
Like, I want to raise my prices, I want to work less hours.

00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:22.320
Like, so you end up getting trapped.

00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:32.159
And that that was the thing I started seeing with my revenue, is where I was like, you know, I'm hitting this ceiling, and it's partially because of these referrals that are coming through.

00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:42.559
Or if a referral client, you know, drops off, or I'm waiting on the referral gods to like send me another referral and I haven't learned how to sell, like I'm screwed.

00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:43.840
I have no sales lover.

00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:45.599
And so I didn't, I didn't love that.

00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:52.639
And so I've kind of I I try to caution some of my clients come to me and they're like, you know, I was a referral-based business and then things stopped working.

00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:55.840
And I'm like, yeah, that's like the nature of what ends up happening.

00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:59.599
Like you have to get the sales part turned on, basically.

00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:00.400
Yes.

00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:10.000
Every single member of the tiny marketing club, that that they were running on referrals and it stopped.

00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:13.599
Yeah, this is this is how it goes.

00:39:13.759 --> 00:39:21.519
And a lot of times, and classic, I'm I'm curious if this is what happens, but what happened a lot of people when they have referrals, they're like, oh, I'm fine.

00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:30.719
I don't need to do any of my sales and marketing stuff, disappear from LinkedIn, disappear from Instagram, and then I can tell you the moment someone's client rolls off because I'm like, oh, look at that.

00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:33.840
All of a sudden they're just like back from the dead.

00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:43.840
And I'm like, like, like for me as somebody that's gonna invest in you know, any kind of high-ticket service, I'm like, I want to know that that person is consistent and that they know what they're doing.

00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:59.119
And so it's actually like a huge red flag to to not be consistent and to kind of go through these like feast and famine in your energy and consistency and showing up in sales and marketing, spoiler alert, mirrors the feast and famine and your revenue.

00:39:59.279 --> 00:40:02.400
That's yes, I like tie a bow on that one.

00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:11.840
That's just how it works, and so that's why I kind of didn't want to have any of that, I don't know, be behavior in the the business anymore because it it was hurting the sales too much.

00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:17.039
It was it was feeling out of my own control, which I don't I don't like that that feeling.

00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:19.599
Yeah, I think we might be the same person.

00:40:19.759 --> 00:40:24.880
I'm like I was like, Larry, tell me if this sounds like you.

00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:27.440
Sounds like me, I'll tell you that much.

00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:30.880
It's uncomfortable relying on other people.

00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:32.960
And I'm the same way.

00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:43.679
I'm always talking about how I, if I see that you're inconsistent in your marketing, I believe that you'll probably be inconsistent in how you work with me.

00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:45.440
It makes me trust you less.

00:40:45.759 --> 00:40:46.880
Totally, totally.

00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:51.840
Yeah, I think I think people get so confused with there's always like that, you know, no like trust.

00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:58.000
I'm like, there are certain behaviors that people look for, they're way more important than like no like trust in the content.

00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:01.679
And the consistency is by far the biggest word.

00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:07.119
Yeah, I think that the trust is part of the consistency, like it's lost.

00:41:07.279 --> 00:41:13.920
If you say you're gonna show up weekly on a YouTube show, for example, and you just drop off the face of the earth.

00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:15.360
My trust is gone.

00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:15.920
Yeah.

00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:32.559
Or even, I mean, if you think about it, I mean, especially if you're doing any kind of like a program-based with a cohort, that's a really bad red flag to kind of show off if you go through these like high launch periods, or also even sometimes with like clients who run ads, they're like, Oh, it's cool.

00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:34.079
I don't need to email my list anymore.

00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:36.719
Like, we burned the the leads that we had.

00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:38.639
So we'll just go generate a bunch of them from ads.

00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:44.320
And I'm like, you have so many like potential leads just sitting there waiting.

00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:46.480
They have the right time for them then.

00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:51.519
Like this couldn't be this couldn't be easier.

00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:53.360
Get a six month content library.

00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:54.559
You will thank me later.

00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:55.759
You will thank me later.

00:41:55.920 --> 00:42:03.360
Like it it's just it's it's funny the things that I think people think business how it should be, it should feel so much sexier.

00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:08.239
And then it's like the the boring is the thing that creates the really bolts.

00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:11.759
There's nothing sexy about it, it's routine.

00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.119
I always I call it my everyday profit habits.

00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:19.360
It's just like simple things I do every day that bring in leads.

00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:19.920
Yep.

00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:21.920
It's boring, but it works.

00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:23.360
It's boring, but it works.

00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:32.719
Get in like a fancy drink in one of your five cups on the table, get you some good music going, drink a cup of coffee, call it a day.

00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:41.840
Like it's just well, your nervous system also will thank you for how grounded you feel in doing it, versus the like, oh shit, I need a client now.

00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:43.759
Like, freak out, do all the things.

00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:45.599
Like that doesn't sound good.

00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:53.759
Yeah, so it's not it's not sexy, and no one's talking about this on the internet because we're all making a million dollars in a weekend or whatever.

00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:55.759
It's not happening.

00:42:56.159 --> 00:43:02.719
Yes, whenever I tell stories about like big sales days, I always give them the asterisk.

00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:06.639
Like, I was nurturing those relationships for months before.

00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:10.559
No, literally, literally.

00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:15.759
You're like, oh, this big big month, let me let me tell you about my you know 35k and the 4K the next month.

00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:18.000
It's because they all closed on the same day.

00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:20.239
Yeah, but it worked out that way.

00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:21.679
So don't think you're expensive.

00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:23.920
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:32.159
But good people don't I think part of it is there's people make it seem a certain way, and then it's like, well, if they did it, then I'm gonna do it.

00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:33.679
And so that's toxic.

00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:38.880
But then there's there's not a real like truth saying of like, no, this is like what they're doing.

00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:48.639
One, you don't have to do it too, and it also doesn't mean anything about you if you had a slower sales month for whatever reason, like yeah, they happen all the time.

00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:52.000
Yeah, it's and no one's no one's talking about those.

00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:54.719
No, no, it's not sexy, yeah.

00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:59.519
It's not, it's not sexy, but it's real life, and that is I don't I don't know.

00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:12.239
I think I I wish things could be a little bit different, and I you know, I try my best to to be, especially with sharing the nuance of like this is how this happened, but um, yeah, it's it's interesting what people will pay you to believe.

00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:13.039
I'll say that.

00:44:13.279 --> 00:44:23.920
Yeah, I have started talking about my slow sales months like three months later, so I can show them what like what habits I added to fix that.

00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:28.320
Yeah, but the that's the most comfortable I can get.

00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:31.039
I can't talk about it while I'm in it because I'm too deep into it.

00:44:31.759 --> 00:44:32.800
No, it's terrible.

00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:39.199
Well, no one wants to get kicked when you're down, which this is actually a really great segue into uh into four.

00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:41.679
Are we in the third one or the fourth one?

00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:42.880
Um uh let's see.

00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:46.239
Two and three you combined into yes, yes.

00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:51.119
So one of them is lessons learned is is one of the big the big ones.

00:44:51.279 --> 00:44:52.719
So thank you for the the queue up.

00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:56.559
But yeah, I think and and it's this weird thing on the internet.

00:44:56.800 --> 00:44:58.079
There's there's kind of two traits.

00:44:58.239 --> 00:45:03.199
There's the like, okay, well, if I'm honest about like this was a hard sales month, then no one's gonna trust me.

00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:07.759
I personally, the reason I really like sharing lessons learned, give it some time.

00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:09.519
Don't don't talk about it when you're in it.

00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:14.800
Like something my coach and I talk about is like I never push publish on an unprocessed thought.

00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:20.719
So like make sure you've like wrapped it up, you've done the postmortem, you know, talk talk about it.

00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:24.559
But you can usually trace back like, okay, what caused this to happen?

00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:33.759
Um, but lessons learned, I know for me, especially someone that you know provides high ticket, but also I write high ticket and also I invest high ticket.

00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:38.800
I want to know that someone has the business acumen to get themselves out of a hole.

00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:39.039
Yeah.

00:45:39.279 --> 00:45:49.519
So high ticket sales is super interesting because and like premium sales messaging, it no longer is about just getting the like, you know, the economical solution.

00:45:49.759 --> 00:46:04.000
These people care about that you have nuance, that you have range, that you've not only, you know, made it X amount of thousands of dollars or whatever else, they also want to know that you know how to navigate out of really tough spots.

00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:06.960
That is where the actual like gold comes from.

00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:07.519
Yeah.

00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:10.719
With some boundaries, I will say, with some boundaries.

00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:16.480
So a lot of a lot of people will be like, they'll ask me, like, well, I'm supposed to be like hashtag vulnerable, right?

00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:19.119
Like, I'm supposed to talk about this like big mental breakdown I had.

00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:21.119
And I'm like, no, you don't have to do that.

00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:22.880
And it has nothing to do with you.

00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:26.079
It has nothing to do with your business.

00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:27.039
That's my first thing.

00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:34.639
Like, I'm I'll I'll say like for this podcast, like I just went through a very profound, like biggest grief cycle of my entire life.

00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:36.000
Did I write about it anywhere?

00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:36.880
Hell no.

00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:38.800
Like, I maybe alluded to it.

00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:50.159
I will probably not talk about what happened in any like form of content because I have a boundary of like these are the topics that are awful mix that also have nothing to do with business anyway.

00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:57.119
Yeah, no, those are just like things like family, kids, revenue to a certain extent.

00:46:57.279 --> 00:47:02.480
Like there are certain things you don't have to talk about in the name of being hashtag vulnerable.

00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:09.679
Like, and again, that I just think about the freaking Cheerios in the back of the car, like and you're cringing all over again.

00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:10.800
What are we doing?

00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:18.320
Or even just like you know, sharing selfies and you know, a selfie of you crying, and I'm like, oh yuck, don't like that.

00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:39.519
Like, please stop performing for this, like it's really weird, and it also shows you that you don't actually know anything about business, like it it just does so many things, or vulnerability because nobody when they're actually feeling that way is going to think to take a picture of themselves, it doesn't come off as authentic at all.

00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:41.599
You don't want to see me when I've been crying, okay?

00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:46.400
It's not cute, it's not cute, it's not cute for an algorithm, it's not good.

00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:57.840
But it's this thing where I think people just like it's it's you want to be vulnerable, and there ain't there is I think people miss mistake authenticity and vulnerability so much.

00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:08.239
Like, yeah, if I'm not I'm not vulnerable, if I don't tell you all my scars or whatever, and I'm like, I don't really want to monetize for my scars, because then that means I'm gonna call in more scars.

00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:11.119
Like, I don't really want it's kind of bad juju, you know.

00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:12.239
I don't really yeah, I don't know.

00:48:13.759 --> 00:48:21.599
I don't I don't I don't want my marketing strategy to be let's talk about like the shit I should be talking to a therapist about, you know?

00:48:21.759 --> 00:48:24.719
That's yeah, I've got her for that.

00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:31.039
I've got her for that, I have a coach for that, like I have all the people resourced, not for this purpose.

00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:59.519
But again, it it's this thing of I think we with the vulnerability piece and and everything else, it's like uh I I want to share, you know, what I learned or whatever else, but you have to you have to remember from a business perspective, I think it is smart to talk about harder seasons just because again, that shows business acumen, which is I I know for me, if I'm gonna hire a coach or I'm gonna hire a marketing person, I'm like, you better know what to do if the plane starts falling.

00:48:59.679 --> 00:48:59.840
Yeah.

00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:03.360
I wouldn't I want to know that you know how to fix it.

00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:06.480
And I want to know that you know how to fix it in your own business.

00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:10.880
Like, because other otherwise, any anyone can say that they know what they're doing.

00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:12.480
That's half of LinkedIn.

00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:13.599
Absolutely.

00:49:13.759 --> 00:49:14.079
Absolutely.

00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:26.239
Like, tell tell show me that you know how to get yourself out of it or like how to generate revenue when you need it, or prove to me that this, you know, this this works even if there's a slow cycle or whatever else.

00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:34.960
The last two coaches I've had, I went with them because they went through periods that I went through periods.

00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:37.519
And I I was like, oh, they got themselves out.

00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:38.320
I want them.

00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:39.039
Totally.

00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:39.519
Yeah.

00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:45.279
I I've been working with my coach for almost four years in May, three and a half years, I guess, at this point.

00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:51.759
And it's for her, like a lot of our journeys like mirror a lot where she's kind of, you know, usually a step ahead of me.

00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:54.960
But I because I do the inner work, she does the inner work.

00:49:55.199 --> 00:50:05.599
But a lot of the like strength and the the mental performance for sure has come from her teaching me, you know, about, you know, it doesn't mean anything about you if your revenue is slow.

00:50:05.759 --> 00:50:16.320
And and all of these lessons that I think pe people kind of discount that that is an important part of business, like the mental performance, the ability to stay on track.

00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:27.599
Like, good God, everyone, everyone getting distracted by all of this stuff that is not generating revenue, but it's like the illusion that it could, versus just like do do the simple thing.

00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:31.199
Do the do the tiny things that you know, your what did you say?

00:50:31.279 --> 00:50:33.599
The diet, the tiny oh, everyday habits.

00:50:33.759 --> 00:50:35.199
Everyday habits, everyday prop habits.

00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:36.880
Yeah, everyday prop habits.

00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:42.079
Like that was the hardest thing for me because I I used to be a you know a high low girl.

00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:44.400
I I used to be like, let's ride the roller coaster.

00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:47.360
This is so fun, high octane risk and stress.

00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:52.079
And now I'm like, that actually was the worst, like the worst period of my life.

00:50:52.159 --> 00:51:04.079
But it's I think working with like coaches or service providers that also like their business model and the energy, like how they're making money, like what is what are the values behind how they're doing this?

00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:11.519
This another that's like a sub-story type, but like definitely having an understanding of like, well, how how are they making money?

00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:12.960
Like, how does this actually work?

00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:26.079
I think really is helpful because you can definitely work with people who are like pro launch, pro ads, pro all these things, or you can kind of connect yourself with people that sell in a way that feels better for you and for your nervous system.

00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:26.400
Yeah.

00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:36.079
There's a lot of us, there's a lot of us around that have the same values, but you know, we're maybe not the loudest people on the internet because we're doing our little things.

00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:36.800
Yeah.

00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:46.880
Finding a coach that like you guys click on that sales level, yeah, I think that matters so much.

00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:51.199
Yeah, because then you can figure out where it's going wrong for you.

00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:56.719
Like I've tried this, I know it's gonna work, but something needs to be tweaked.

00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:57.440
Yeah, yeah.

00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:01.440
My my coaches specifically, so I know it may not seem like it.

00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:05.199
I'm very introverted writer, but I'm very introverted.

00:52:05.279 --> 00:52:09.679
And and her whole approach was like, she's for introverts, empaths, and highly sensitive people.

00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:14.159
And so after working with her, I was like, oh my God, this is why I hate going to the grocery store.

00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:15.279
Oh my god, like I didn't know.

00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:26.480
Yeah, but it was like all of the energy management stuff that she was kind of teaching me that like I think some people in my family still think I'm an extrovert, which is not true.

00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:34.639
So it's it's very interesting, like working with someone that the values and how they sell, like a lot of the like think about it, okay.

00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:41.279
If I'm an introvert and an empath and a highly sensitive person, sales calls are like not a great energy-giving thing to me.

00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:50.000
So that's kind of how we've built my sales ecosystem to make more sense for me, my personality style, but also like the function of my business.

00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:58.480
I'm a writer, so it's hard for me to, you know, do a couple hours of work and then do a sales call or you know, do a podcast interview and then jump right back in.

00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:00.719
Like that, it doesn't make sense for what I'm doing.

00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:10.239
So finding a coach that can really honor who you are and what you are and how you prefer to work, I think is really important.

00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:14.079
Yeah, I really want to highlight that too.

00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:21.759
And so many entrepreneurs or people who want to be an entrepreneur feel like they have to fit into somebody else's box.

00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:29.840
But really, it's about finding the systems that work for you and your energy levels and how you think.

00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:35.440
And once you find that, everything will feel natural and it will flow.

00:53:35.759 --> 00:53:37.440
Yes, it doesn't work.

00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:42.480
There's there's a lot of a lot of coaching that I think with and it's definitely still happening.

00:53:42.639 --> 00:53:47.279
It was very, it was giving like 2020, 2021 coaching industry MLM vibes.

00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:47.759
Yeah.

00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:50.800
Where it was like it was like, oh, I made all this money doing this thing.

00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:52.800
So now I'm gonna teach you how I did it.

00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:56.480
And you're like, well, first off, I'm not extrovert extreme.

00:53:56.559 --> 00:54:00.719
So that's like 90% of what you're about to teach me is actually terrible.

00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:08.880
And I I've invested in coaches like that where it's like, cool, I learned one way and one marketing strategy and ecosystem that does work.

00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:17.119
But for someone like me, like, I don't want to send 20 DMs and I don't want to have a spreadsheet of like every lead ever that I'm connected with.

00:54:17.279 --> 00:54:20.800
Like that, the minutiae, that is just totally draining.

00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:32.480
So it's it's understanding, and I think there's there's definitely something about individual coaching, bespoke styles where it really incorporates who you are, even just the nature of your business, what you're trying to do.

00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:36.079
Like, I don't, I'm not trying to be the next version of your business.

00:54:36.159 --> 00:54:38.079
I'm kind of just trying to build my own thing.

00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:56.719
And I need support with the mental stuff, the spiritual stuff, the emotional, all of the like interpersonal client-sending boundaries, like all of this stuff, the other things that, you know, the day-to-day, like I'll say like personal operations to get it, get it moving.

00:54:56.800 --> 00:55:02.800
I, you know, I I have good business sense, but I I need someone to hold me accountable to like, no, this is what we're building.

00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:09.920
Like, we don't need to go build, you know, an email newsletter with 50,000 subscribers and like a shitty digital product at the back end.

00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:11.360
Like, that's not my thing.

00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:12.559
Yeah, yeah.

00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:18.559
And you see somebody else who's doing it super successfully, and you're like, maybe me too.

00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:21.119
Maybe, maybe me too in our own way.

00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:23.039
And then you get distracted.

00:55:23.279 --> 00:55:23.599
Yes.

00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:29.519
Oh my gosh, the distract the lack of focus and distraction is is another another thing too.

00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:43.119
Cause it's it's it's so challenging because you you want to be and have the same results as the as other people, but again, the nuance, they may not be telling you the whole story, they might may not you know have had the same starting place that you did.

00:55:43.279 --> 00:55:50.000
Like, yeah, that's there's so much there's just too much that's not confirmed, truly confirmed.

00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:51.679
Yeah, yeah.

00:55:52.480 --> 00:56:06.960
I constantly talk about how much I hate when someone has a very specific framework and you have to go through each one of their steps, and they're like, Well, if it's not working for you, then you're try harder.

00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:12.960
Where it's like, no, this isn't for me, it's not gonna work for my personality.

00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:17.279
I need something that fits me and the way I work.

00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:27.039
Yeah, I just think hard, concrete ways, processes of moving people through, like to get the same accomplishment as you got.

00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:28.400
They don't, it doesn't work.

00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:30.400
It needs to be custom for the person.

00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:32.079
Totally, totally agree.

00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:33.599
Retweet that one for sure.

00:56:33.759 --> 00:56:34.079
Yeah.

00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:36.400
Boop, that was my retweet button.

00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:37.440
Yeah, love.

00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:38.880
Let's get to five.

00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:41.679
What was the fifth, yeah, storytelling?

00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:53.360
The fifth one, other than the money-making testimonials and like the client case studies, arguably the most important, the one that people never talk about is your origin story.

00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:59.519
So everyone I think, especially in in your your business evolution, I know this this was true for me.

00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:04.320
You know, we we tend to discount the things that we've learned over the years.

00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:09.599
So for a really long time, I didn't talk about how, yes, I have a ghostwriting business.

00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:14.079
I also flash forward to me, like my first job out of college.

00:57:14.239 --> 00:57:16.480
I had a very like fluke of a first job.

00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:21.360
I was in the C-suite of a Fortune 100 company, ghostwriting for a senior executive.

00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:24.639
I was 21, like, couldn't make it up.

00:57:24.800 --> 00:57:30.800
I got all the experience in the world at like the highest place you could possibly be ghostwriting at from a corporate perspective.

00:57:31.039 --> 00:57:32.159
Yeah, you lucked out.

00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:35.360
I I like really truly fluke of a first job.

00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:37.039
They should never have given me that.

00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:39.440
I was like barely a drinking age.

00:57:39.759 --> 00:57:47.039
But there, you know, that was a huge part of my story and kind of how looking back, I'm like, oh, well, I was already kind of doing this.

00:57:47.119 --> 00:57:58.239
And I was doing this at a different level where, you know, I did have the kind of corporate cushion where I could experiment more, and I got to see a whole lot, especially because we were doing a lot of internal communication.

00:57:58.480 --> 00:58:03.039
So I kind of got to see like crash course, how does this work at a really young age?

00:58:03.279 --> 00:58:11.279
The other thing most people don't know that I talk about sometimes, but not definitely not as much, is I, while working full-time, I had a corporate job.

00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:17.920
I got a master's in PR, specifically in internal and executive communications, which is spoiler alert, ghostwriting.

00:58:18.159 --> 00:58:19.360
Yes, exactly what you're doing.

00:58:19.759 --> 00:58:20.480
That's what that is.

00:58:20.719 --> 00:58:22.400
Yeah, PR for an executive.

00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:23.440
That's what that is.

00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:33.279
But I didn't think, because I just thought, like, okay, well, once you're an entrepreneur, you only earn your stripes from what you do in this one business concept, and that's it.

00:58:33.519 --> 00:58:36.639
Not realizing like my origin story, that's so important.

00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:49.440
Like, I when I started talking about that, people were like, Man, that makes me feel like 20 times better hiring you because you've at least seen more stuff, or like you've you know, you've studied this, you've you've taken the reps in and you've done all of this.

00:58:49.759 --> 00:58:55.840
My coach, she has a really great juicy origin story because it's this, it's the thing you can't replicate.

00:58:56.079 --> 00:58:59.279
No, no one else is gonna have the story that you have.

00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:00.400
And that's the magic.

00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:05.119
That's that's one of the best ways to key into why you do the things that you do.

00:59:05.279 --> 00:59:16.159
But like my coach, ambitious introvert, empath, highly sensitive person, she'll say, like, the reason she's so good at her job is she was an air traffic controller for like 10 years.

00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:18.320
And so, and she actually tells this story.

00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:26.480
She'll say that um she had this client that wanted to work with her after finding out that she was an air traffic controller.

00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:32.559
And the reason this client signed on to work with her was because they said, that's someone's brain that I want on my business.

00:59:32.719 --> 00:59:51.519
Like your brain, the things that you're good at and the past experience you had, like, you know, yes, you might be a coach or a consultant, but like that thing, whatever that special experience, they're either super connected to it from a values perspective, or they're like, you know, I don't know a lot about air traffic control, but you know, you definitely know about complexity.

00:59:51.679 --> 00:59:52.400
Like that, yeah.

00:59:54.000 --> 01:00:00.960
That I think a lot of people I think people think, you know, oh, I'm supposed to talk about, you know, this is why I started my business.

01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:05.440
It's usually because you left a corporate job or you got laid off during the pandemic.

01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:09.599
I still think like we know your story because it's all of our story.

01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:10.559
Yeah, I know.

01:00:10.639 --> 01:00:15.679
I well, and for a while, like I I when I first started, I was like, oh yeah, I like got tired of my corporate job.

01:00:15.759 --> 01:00:17.679
That that was my origin story that I used a lot.

01:00:17.759 --> 01:00:20.719
And then I would just kept scrolling and I was like, shit, they have the same one.

01:00:20.800 --> 01:00:21.519
They have the same.

01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:23.840
I was like, okay, this is this is not gonna work.

01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:25.679
Like, we're gonna have to find something else.

01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:32.960
But that that's the the thing is like no, no one could possibly have my origin story and the and the combination.

01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:41.920
There's so many different backstories to things as well in different different ways, not just from the business owner's perspective, either, or why the business got started.

01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:46.480
It's also a really great way to talk about your offers and the origin story of your offer.

01:00:46.719 --> 01:00:48.239
Like, why did you create this?

01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:50.000
Well, you probably saw a gap in the market.

01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:51.279
Why was this so important?

01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:59.759
What were you noticing in your clients that you know they were struggling with that no one else seemed to, you know, get get solved?

01:00:59.920 --> 01:01:01.440
Why did you do it in this way?

01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:05.920
Tell me, tell me why you created it in this way, certain benefits, certain specs.

01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:22.320
That origin story is again, besides kind of client testimonials, that that is kind of the magic I think that kind of weaves into every every business and every story that you could be telling because it's something that no one else is gonna have.

01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:26.880
It's impossible for anyone to have the same combination as you.

01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:29.360
And if they do, you're not looking hard enough.

01:01:29.440 --> 01:01:38.079
You got to do a little more soul soul searching because there's definitely there's I sit all day, every day, writing origin stories for people, and I'm just like, dude, this is juicy.

01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:43.519
Like, there's there's just a million and one ways to to spin it and and talk about it.

01:01:43.759 --> 01:01:45.199
Yeah, there there are.

01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:46.559
I write a lot of LinkedIn.

01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:48.800
Profiles for my clients.

01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:52.079
And that's one of the things that I have.

01:01:52.159 --> 01:02:01.840
And usually their experience section is the origin story of what made them the person that they are today that launched the thing that they're doing.

01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:04.800
And they're so fun and interesting.

01:02:05.199 --> 01:02:05.440
Yeah.

01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:14.559
Well, no, origin stories are great too because what's actually underneath them, again, those like universal themes, the more specific we are, they resonate on a universal level.

01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:21.279
Origin stories are so fun because you can tell it 20 different ways, just with different stories or different values.

01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:26.079
And so, like I could tell you my origin story, but I'm using it through the lens of authenticity.

01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:28.880
Maybe I'm using it through a lens of rebellion.

01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:32.000
Maybe I'm using it through a lens of abundance.

01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:38.320
Like there's there's a million different ways to tell, you know, why you started something, why you created an offer.

01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:46.000
And those values and the lens that you choose to tell that story through are the things that are going to resonate with someone.

01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:57.199
And again, it's that specificity of someone being like, man, like that that was really interesting to me, or that that really, you know, I think we all kind of have seasonal themes or things that we're kind of into.

01:02:57.360 --> 01:03:14.400
And I think that is what really attracts people into our ether, whether they're ready to invest, you know, today, that right this second, or you know, they need nine years, you know, to to finally convert, you know, we don't we don't really ever know.

01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:22.400
But that that's I think something and it and it's also it's an a practice in honoring your own story and honoring where you came from.

01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:43.759
And that can be a like kind of an uncomfortable thing, you know, owning not just your wins like you would share in a client case study, but owning like, you know, I may not have enjoyed my time in corporate, and you know, maybe I had some rebellion and you know, angst as to why I left, but also like that shaped a lot of what I learned and a lot of what I didn't want to bring with me into building a business.

01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:49.279
So there's there's almost like this healing process that can happen again, a little bit more internally.

01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:54.239
It doesn't mean you have to go, you know, blast your vulnerabilities and your past problems.

01:03:55.119 --> 01:04:04.320
Uh there's a a lot of healing than and when you own all the parts of you, that's the thing that allows you to become whole and kind of propel yourself forward.

01:04:04.639 --> 01:04:11.279
It can also help you reframe your past if it was something that was uncomfortable or bad at the moment.

01:04:11.519 --> 01:04:18.000
It helps you see it through a new lens because that experience led you to the business that you have today.

01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:26.320
Like my origin story is I was a one-person marketing department for a seven company group, and I was overwhelmed.

01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:28.000
I had seven presidents.

01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:29.119
Terrible.

01:04:30.079 --> 01:04:38.960
It was very hard, but it also allowed me the space to build a framework that worked really well for them.

01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:41.840
And then I was able to replicate it for other clients.

01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:46.000
So while at the time I was like, oh my God, what did I get myself into?

01:04:46.159 --> 01:04:53.119
Now I'm like, thank God I did, because it I had to be scrappy and figure out how to make it all work.

01:04:53.360 --> 01:04:53.840
Yeah.

01:04:54.159 --> 01:04:57.599
But lessons learned story, that's what people want to hear.

01:04:57.759 --> 01:04:59.599
You know, they want to hear the origin story.

01:04:59.679 --> 01:05:02.000
They want to hear like what you learned about that.

01:05:02.079 --> 01:05:08.320
And I think, yeah, the the more we can own, you know, I really believe in like neuroplasticity.

01:05:08.400 --> 01:05:11.039
You know, we we have a lot of trauma we store in our bodies.

01:05:11.119 --> 01:05:13.759
We can re-heal it, we can rewire our brains.

01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:16.719
And that is part of the the process too.

01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:21.119
Like, I think doing a kind of retroactive look at what you where you came from.

01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:33.920
Also, if you're like going through a tough season, it's also the thing that's gonna, you know, hopefully create a little bit of a spark and be like, okay, you know, I said I survived what I thought was gonna be the worst day of my life or the worst season of my life.

01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:39.440
And, you know, I can see it may still have some darkness, but there is some light there as well.

01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:53.039
And I think that is kind of, I think that's what hope feels like, you know, in a business season or, you know, after closing something down or stopping an offer or a launch flop or whatever else, like you it always leads to something better.

01:05:53.199 --> 01:06:15.279
It may not feel like it at the time, but I think that is, you know, I think that's what hope and you know, maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think that's that's that kind of like inner work of being an entrepreneur that really needs to be taking place to get the kind of results and and more alignment, you know, going into whatever the next era is.

01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:15.920
Yeah.

01:06:16.159 --> 01:06:25.440
It took me a long time to realize that too, when something didn't work out, now I'm looking at it with curiosity instead of disappointment.

01:06:25.519 --> 01:06:27.759
Like, what is what is the lesson there?

01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:33.199
What do you think that I even just accepting right off and like you know, move on?

01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:37.199
I feel like I have to like really just sit in it.

01:06:37.279 --> 01:06:43.360
And and this is something else that I I I write a lot subconsciously under the radar, if you didn't know what to look for.

01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:49.279
I write a lot about grief, is what I actually, you know, if you were to pull back and I were to really reveal.

01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:51.279
Spoiler, that's what's actually happening here.

01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:54.400
I write a lot about grief and I write a lot about joy and abundance.

01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:58.000
And I think like most entrepreneurs, who wants to feel grief?

01:06:58.159 --> 01:06:59.279
Who wants to feel depressed?

01:06:59.440 --> 01:07:00.320
Who wants to feel sad?

01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:03.039
Like it's a it's a really crappy feeling.

01:07:03.279 --> 01:07:06.000
And it can feel like you can't get yourself out of it.

01:07:06.239 --> 01:07:14.400
But grief is also, this is like my storyteller memoirist side coming out, but grief is also a death and a rebirth cycle.

01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:18.880
So when you can grieve, you know, the past, that is also the thing.

01:07:19.119 --> 01:07:23.519
Take with it what you would like into the next birth or rebirth.

01:07:23.759 --> 01:07:26.639
That is the the the case for anything.

01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:36.000
It could be an offer, it could be a business concept, it could be a career change, it could be a relationship, like that that is grief, is like death and rebirth.

01:07:36.079 --> 01:07:41.039
And so I think that that work, it's not fun to sit with and you can't AI prompt your way out of it.

01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:51.920
Like you have to actually sit feelings, but I think that's an important part of the the storytelling process as well, and kind of what adds richness to what you're sharing.

01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:55.519
Makes me think of tarot when you pull the death card.

01:07:56.159 --> 01:07:56.639
Oh my god.

01:07:56.800 --> 01:08:02.880
No, for me, it's anytime I pull the tower, I'm like, I don't want it, I don't want it.

01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:08.559
So many people think that the death card is bad, but really it's like the beginning of a new chapter.

01:08:08.639 --> 01:08:09.279
It's a rebirth.

01:08:09.599 --> 01:08:10.559
Totally, truly.

01:08:10.719 --> 01:08:13.279
Yeah, and it it's it's tough to hold though.

01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:18.159
I mean, who who wants to feel like you know something failed or like something you know can't continue?

01:08:18.320 --> 01:08:27.279
It's it's hard to sit with, but it's you know, death and rebirth, it's no different than okay, it's you know, time to clear out some spring cleaning.

01:08:27.360 --> 01:08:32.640
You're gonna go through, get rid of the the clutter in your house that you don't want anymore, and you're gonna donate some of it.

01:08:32.720 --> 01:08:37.119
Well, that creates space for something new, and it feels good once it's over.

01:08:37.440 --> 01:08:39.199
It feels good once it's over.

01:08:39.520 --> 01:08:40.480
Yeah, once it's over.

01:08:40.560 --> 01:08:41.039
You have to move through.

01:08:41.279 --> 01:08:48.640
Yeah, you can be I I will say, you know, one of my one of my quirks is I'm not the best at actually dropping this stuff off at goodwill.

01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:51.119
So I'll like sitting in your trunk.

01:08:51.360 --> 01:08:55.760
Sitting in my trunk for a little bit, it's fine, but it's at least down at the apartment.

01:08:55.920 --> 01:08:57.279
So you can't really feel it.

01:08:57.440 --> 01:09:07.920
But um, yeah, I I think that's it's allowing yourself to kind of grow and evolve, and like we can't, I hope, you know, stay the same level all the time.

01:09:08.079 --> 01:09:14.320
We have to to allow ourselves to kind of clear out what isn't serving us and create space for whatever is new.

01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:21.759
That could be clients, that could be certain offers, that could be pricing, that could be an anything.

01:09:21.920 --> 01:09:23.279
Like nothing is off the table.

01:09:23.519 --> 01:09:26.479
There's one thing I've learned, it's like expect the unexpected.

01:09:27.039 --> 01:09:30.960
Yeah, evolution is inevitable.

01:09:31.199 --> 01:09:35.359
Yeah, so grow grow or grow or die, and dying's not an option.

01:09:35.679 --> 01:09:37.519
So buckle up, baby.

01:09:37.599 --> 01:09:38.719
I don't know what to tell you.

01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:42.479
Yeah, get real comfortable with change if you're in in business.

01:09:42.880 --> 01:09:44.880
If you're an entrepreneur, yeah, seriously.

01:09:45.119 --> 01:09:52.479
Every week something different, but that is part of I think there's a certain type of person that is resilient enough to do this for a living.

01:09:52.559 --> 01:10:01.439
And it doesn't mean it's not tough, but um, it it's you being resilient and strong and and able to navigate the highs and the lows.

01:10:01.519 --> 01:10:15.680
And that's that's what people, whether it's clients, whether it's customers, whether it's you looking for someone to work with, like that those are kind of for me the big indicators that come with the the job description.

01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:16.079
Yeah.

01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:21.680
I have definitely become a stronger person because of it.

01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:26.239
Because when I started, it was very uncomfortable.

01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:27.199
Yeah.

01:10:27.439 --> 01:10:29.920
Yeah, it's it's a tough job for sure.

01:10:30.079 --> 01:10:35.600
Like it's it's still one of the harder things I've ever had to do in my life, but wouldn't change it for a day.

01:10:35.840 --> 01:10:37.039
Wouldn't wouldn't change it.

01:10:37.199 --> 01:10:42.640
There's some seasons where I'm like, that was scrappy, but I did not enjoy that.

01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:49.760
Yeah, that was not my funnest time, but we're still living to tell the tale, and there's value in that.

01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:51.680
So, you know, live to die another day.

01:10:51.760 --> 01:10:53.119
That's what I tell myself all the time.

01:10:53.359 --> 01:11:01.519
Yeah, yeah, it's probably like the innate optimism that lives in all of us that keeps us going.

01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:04.560
Like it's bad right now, but tomorrow will be better.

01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:04.960
Right.

01:11:05.119 --> 01:11:06.720
It's that visionary entrepreneur.

01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:09.279
It'll it's it's really helpful sometimes.

01:11:09.439 --> 01:11:10.000
Yeah.

01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:15.119
So can you tell the audience how they can work with you and find you online?

01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:15.920
Yeah.

01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:22.239
So as far as working with me, um, I ghostwrite mostly content in the storytelling format.

01:11:22.399 --> 01:11:29.199
So most clients work with me either on a LinkedIn content retainer or email newsletters or both.

01:11:29.359 --> 01:11:32.960
So um I definitely have a, you know, a certain kind of style.

01:11:33.039 --> 01:11:35.519
I'm definitely a more kind of direct, quippy.

01:11:35.600 --> 01:11:36.640
I kind of write like a talk.

01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:42.960
And so most of my clients tend to be like very uh yeah, a certain type of humor style, but it's really fun.

01:11:43.199 --> 01:12:04.640
Um, but so LinkedIn or email newsletters, or if you ever have like a one-off project in the sales department, I tend to write a lot of email welcome series for email newsletters, especially if you're trying to figure out how to tell it in a way that's storytelling and selling, that is another big thing that I write for clients, or uh some sales pages or service pages um for websites a lot of times as well.

01:12:04.880 --> 01:12:12.960
But definitely more in the content, you know, name of the game and and working with my clients to build a content library.

01:12:13.119 --> 01:12:23.279
So filling in the gaps, especially of like what is the the content that's out here that we still need to have in your six-month library is really what I try to get my clients to.

01:12:23.600 --> 01:12:29.279
Um, and then as far as where to see me online, I'm I'm on LinkedIn, uh, pretty active over there.

01:12:29.359 --> 01:12:32.399
And then I write a newsletter called Wallflower Fridays.

01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:42.479
Similar vibe to kind of, I mean, just how I speak basically, but it's I always try to tell some story from my life where I pull inspiration from like books that I'm reading, movies that I'm watching.

01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:53.359
I last week, this is like so embarrassing, but last week I sent one about Disney descendants, which has been my like hyperfixation, which is actually a banger of a storytelling.

01:12:53.439 --> 01:12:56.159
And so I kind of went into like why it works.

01:12:56.319 --> 01:13:02.239
Um, but if you want to read Wallflower Fridays, you can sign up for that at WallflowerFridays.com.

01:13:02.960 --> 01:13:03.680
Very nice.

01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:05.359
And now I have to go check that out.

01:13:05.519 --> 01:13:06.560
I have two descendants.

01:13:08.800 --> 01:13:10.319
Oh my god, it is.

01:13:10.479 --> 01:13:12.159
I will really and truly go off.

01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:15.039
I'm like, I like it was supposed to be a joke.

01:13:15.199 --> 01:13:19.119
Like my YouTube algorithm like was really showing me this stuff.

01:13:19.279 --> 01:13:26.560
And then I was watching it, and I was like, oh my god, they're like talking about I'm I'm healing from like narcissistic abuse right now.

01:13:26.720 --> 01:13:30.800
And so like, oh my god, the first movie is like all about healing from narcissists.

01:13:30.880 --> 01:13:31.519
What the fuck?

01:13:31.760 --> 01:13:38.239
Right and then the second one, it was like it knew, and then I'm like looking at this and I'm like, oh my god, this is like very woke art.

01:13:38.319 --> 01:13:39.119
What is happening?

01:13:39.279 --> 01:13:41.279
And now I'm like, it's so embarrassing.

01:13:41.359 --> 01:13:58.319
This is like I would normally tell my email lists not, you know, not people on a podcast, but like, I'm re-read, I'm reading there's like prequel books, I'm reading the children's prequel books for these Disney movies, but the the music is great, it's directed by Kenny Ortega, who did a high school musical.

01:13:58.800 --> 01:13:59.920
Um, I don't know.

01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:03.119
I it's really fun and it's been like a really joyful experience.

01:14:03.199 --> 01:14:11.279
And it's it's the backstory of the villains and the you're a Disney's villains, so it's the kids of the villains, the descendants, but it's fun.

01:14:11.760 --> 01:14:13.920
I actually found that.

01:14:14.319 --> 01:14:18.000
It's super fun, it's super nostalgic, like the values and the themes.

01:14:18.079 --> 01:14:26.720
Like, if you want to talk about universal themes, like I'm I'm literally sitting here watching this and I'm crying, and I'm like, oh my god, they're healing from narcissistic parents.

01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:30.880
Like, holy like it's it's just I think really well written.

01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:33.680
It's campy, it's hokey, like it's fine.

01:14:33.920 --> 01:14:38.159
The music in the second one is like we're playing it a lot right now, you know.

01:14:38.239 --> 01:14:44.479
I'm just listening to it a lot, but it's it's a fun, like kind of I don't know, just it's it's a little bit different.

01:14:44.560 --> 01:14:50.000
It's it's kind of playful or whatever, but yeah, you can watch it on Disney Plus descendants.

01:14:50.399 --> 01:14:52.239
Well, we have it, so I'm gonna try it out.

01:14:52.479 --> 01:14:59.039
Yeah, well tell me how it goes, because I'm like I said, I'm reading the books, we're deep in it.

01:14:59.359 --> 01:15:00.880
So we're we're there.

01:15:01.119 --> 01:15:02.640
I will, I will let you know.

01:15:03.039 --> 01:15:05.359
Thank you so much for joining me today.

01:15:05.519 --> 01:15:08.479
This talk was way longer than my normal ones.

01:15:08.720 --> 01:15:10.239
I enjoyed every bit of it.

01:15:10.399 --> 01:15:11.199
Thank you.

01:15:12.319 --> 01:15:15.920
All right, that was a long one, but it was a good one.

01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:20.960
So now that this episode is over, this is what I want you to do.

01:15:21.199 --> 01:15:22.560
Audit your content.

01:15:22.720 --> 01:15:29.359
Does every post that you've created in the last seven days, let's say, subtly sell?

01:15:29.600 --> 01:15:35.519
Are you hinting or nodding or threading your offer into the content and the stories that you're telling?

01:15:35.840 --> 01:15:47.760
Incorporate storytelling in your marketing, particularly around client case studies, so people can visualize themselves in the place of your current clients.

01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:53.199
Clarify your messaging to both attract and repel potential clients.

01:15:53.439 --> 01:15:58.319
It will save you so much time on unnecessary sales calls.

01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:02.000
Build a streamlined sales process that works for you.

01:16:02.239 --> 01:16:05.119
So everybody's sales process is a little different.

01:16:05.279 --> 01:16:10.479
You need it to work for the life that you have and your business and your offers.

01:16:10.880 --> 01:16:13.680
So build one that you actually love.

01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:21.199
And last, embrace the long game, nurture leads so they become ready to work with you.

01:16:21.439 --> 01:16:28.479
So one way you can do that is through DMs, which you learned in episode 122.

01:16:28.640 --> 01:16:32.880
If you haven't listened to that, go back in time one week to that one.

01:16:33.119 --> 01:16:35.359
And another way is in the inbox.

01:16:35.519 --> 01:16:39.760
So I recently released an email marketing kit that I think you'll love.

01:16:39.840 --> 01:16:45.439
And it shows five different email sequences, templates, and their plug and play.

01:16:45.519 --> 01:17:00.239
They show you examples on how you can sell after a freebie or after a client has ghosted you, or how to get more butts in seats when you're hosting a free event.

01:17:00.399 --> 01:17:10.560
So there's five email sequence, all designed to nurture your leads and pull them through and help them become clients.

01:17:11.199 --> 01:17:13.600
You love all things tiny marketing.

01:17:13.920 --> 01:17:32.720
Head down to the show notes page and sign up for the wait list to join the Tiny Marketing Club, where you get to work one on one with me with trainings, feedback, and pop up coaching that will help you scale your marketing as a B2B service business.

01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:34.560
So I'll see you over in the club.