Nov. 15, 2025
Ep 163: Your Course Isn’t Failing; Your Onboarding Is | Guest Expert Jasmine Jonte
Send us a text We map the new course landscape and show how trust, focus, and thoughtful support turn a crowded niche into an advantage. From onboarding that builds safety to AI-driven upsells, we share practical ways to raise completion and profit without bloat. • market shift post‑2020 and AI making course creation easier • trust recession, proof of expertise, and honest limits • picking support structures that match ideal clients • designing for focus with missions, tracks, and tools • en...
We map the new course landscape and show how trust, focus, and thoughtful support turn a crowded niche into an advantage. From onboarding that builds safety to AI-driven upsells, we share practical ways to raise completion and profit without bloat.
• market shift post‑2020 and AI making course creation easier
• trust recession, proof of expertise, and honest limits
• picking support structures that match ideal clients
• designing for focus with missions, tracks, and tools
• engagement loops, reactivation prompts, and peer recognition
• built‑in upsells, AI agents, and shareable wins
• common mistakes: non‑actionable content and weak onboarding
• mini courses for quick wins vs signature transformations
• long game mindset and stair‑step offers before self‑paced
• how to work with Jasmine and where to find her
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Jasmine Jonte helps experts turn braindumps into world-class programs! Her Done-For-You Course Creation agency takes care of everything - from the big picture promise down to the last worksheet download. They're on a mission to make learning simple and fun for 10 Million students while saving 100+ hours for every course creator they partner with!
Coupling her teaching experience with business savvy and management skills, you’ll want her to do the heavy lifting when building or upgrading your online programs!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasminejonte/
Website: Cre8tion.co
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JasmineJonteCRE8TION
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00:00 - Welcome And Today’s Focus
02:50 - The Course Market Shift Since 2020
04:47 - Trust Recession And Real Expertise
07:17 - Choosing The Right Support Structures
13:14 - Designing For Focus, Not Volume
17:54 - Engagement Loops And Re-Activation
21:24 - Profit Levers And Built-In Upsells
24:54 - AI Agents As Smart Upsell Guides
28:14 - Common Course Design Mistakes
30:54 - Onboarding That Builds Safety
34:54 - Mini Courses Vs Signature Programs
37:54 - The Long Game: Resilience Over “Passive”
41:14 - Stair-Step Offers Before Self-Paced
WEBVTT
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Podcast that helps B2B service businesses do more with less.
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Hello, audience.
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I am nice to see you.
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Uh my name's Jasmine Jonte.
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I a have a done for you course creation agency.
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So we work with experts, authors, speakers, coaches, consultants, entrepreneurs, and we pull the wisdom out of their brain and put it into world-class programs.
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Um and that can look like a lot of different things, but that's who that's who I am.
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That's what I do.
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And at the heart of everything is um teaching, background and teaching, and also just creating amazing experiences for clients and for people.
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All about the wow factor.
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You know?
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Yeah.
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And that's so important right now in particular.
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So before I cue up my first question, because I always do that, I'm like, okay, I have a thousand questions, but I didn't even tell them what the topic is yet.
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So we're talking today about how to become the go-to course creator in your specific niche.
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Before we get into that though, can you tell me like what is changing right now?
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Because I know that there's a shift in this course creator world.
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So what did it look like before?
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And what does it look like in 2026?
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Hmm, I don't know when before is.
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Let's just say before 2020.
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So okay, let's go there.
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So before 2020, um it was a lot more challenging to create programs.
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There was no chat GPT.
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You had to hit every single keystroke of every single thumbnail uh copy piece.
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And like it was just a lot more challenging and less people tried because of that.
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Yeah.
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Um, and then we entered 2020, people had more time, people were at home.
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And so like everyone had to pivot online.
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Um, even like if you look at, you know, Tony Robbins, a guy who'd been doing in-person events only forever, pivoted online and had like 10x or more the reach and impact that he did just when he was doing his in-person training.
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So everyone went online and now suddenly everyone has a course.
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Everyone's like, oh my gosh, it's so saturated in my niche.
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Um, and then recently in the past like 18 months, two years, then ChatGPT came along.
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So it got even easier to develop an amaz a program.
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And um what that means is now there's a lot of noise, and there's a lot of people out there who have not so great training programs.
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Um, and so we're on a mission to combat that, right?
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Yeah.
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I'm excited to hear like how you're doing that because yes, a lot more people are trying to build courses.
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And a lot there's also like the trust factor that so many people put out programs in 2020 who weren't qualified to do it.
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And then we're like, then we pulled back a lot more than we needed to because we were like, can we trust anybody?
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Can we trust anybody?
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So there's that trust recession.
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But let's let's talk about that.
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How do you how do you build that trust with your audience so they'd feel comfortable with you?
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And is it all digital assets or do you mix and match?
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Well, if we think about building trust with our audience, I think the easiest thing to or the easiest question to ask to reflect on that is who are the people that you trust on the internet and why?
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Right.
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Um and I think part of that is showcasing your expertise that you truly are an expert.
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Because like you said, there's a lot of people out there who are unqualified who have no business building the program that they're building and trying to sell and market the program they're trying to sell and market.
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Um, and then on the flip side, there's experts out there who have every right in the world to be teaching what they know online and yet they have imposter syndrome.
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Yeah.
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So it's so many.
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So it's really about like having an honest moment with yourself and saying, like, am I really an expert in this?
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Um, and kind of removing the emotion from it, looking at the the success stories and the client results that you have, and then from that place, sharing that online.
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So you're showcasing your expertise so the audience trusts it.
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Um, you know, I think that's that's huge.
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And another element of uh of having your audience trust you is just being real and honest with them.
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Like, just like if you were serving someone in like a professional services capacity or um an agency capacity or whatever it is, you wouldn't sell them something that you couldn't deliver on.
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So be honest with your audience of like if you if there is something that is the limit or the boundary of what you can support them with, then like say it.
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Like, don't be afraid to say it.
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And it's honestly like a relief to hear someone say, like, that's not my skill set, like and point to a different direction, because then you know what they are sharing.
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They actually do know if they're comfortable talking about what they don't.
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So we have the trust factor, and then what about because you mentioned AI, the digital versus in like the mix of digital in-person, one-to-one contact.
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How do we determine that?
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Uh yeah, there's a lot of questions that you gotta ask to figure out how much uh I call them like support structures you want to have inside of the program that you're offering.
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There are in-person struct support structures and there are uh virtual support structures.
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There is one-on-one, there is group, there is peer support.
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Like it can look like a lot of different things, and you have to consider what's the result that you're trying to get people or you're trying to help people achieve inside of your program.
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And what's that ideal client?
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I mean, it's so simple, it's so basic.
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But um, I remember like a couple years ago, I was trying to do this retreat offer because it sounded really fun to me and it sounded sexy.
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Like I called it the course in a week retreat.
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And wouldn't it be amazing if you could come to Phoenix, Arizona?
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We'll put you up in a beautiful Airbnb, like so aesthetic, and we get your course done in a week.
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And no one freaking bought it.
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And I was like, what do you mean?
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Like this support structure is amazing.
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And I was right off vacation.
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Vacation, come on, we're gonna have like the whole thing, the catered meals, and like I really like made it exclusive in Lux and all the things, and it was like a reasonable price point because I was betaing it.
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So I was like, Yeah, even if I don't like make a ton of profit on this, like I just want to prove it out.
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No one bought, no one bought, and it was because I picked the support structure that I wanted as at the time, like a 30-year-old, you know, woman, double income, no kids, whatever.
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And most of my ideal clients have kids in, you know, who are like in elementary and middle school.
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And so hard.
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And they were like, I this is not the support structure I need, right?
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And so I think that it it often comes down to like, what is your ideal client want?
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Because everyone just goes usually to the if they're having like some kind of group program, they'll say, like, we're gonna do a call once a week.
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Well, does your ideal client want to show up to a call once a week?
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Oh my gosh, let me raise my hand right now because I do not for accoaching any day of the week over in like having to be live on something.
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Uh-huh.
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100%.
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And like there's other people who they love, like the weekly, it's gonna make me show up.
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I get to put it on my calendar.
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Like, there are avatars that really enjoy that and they like that kind of structure and routine.
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And so at the end of the day, it's like, what does your client want?
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And also, like, what are you willing to do?
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You know, uh, especially like with the async work, you gotta have boundaries on it by telling your clients, like, I'm gonna get back to you within 24, 48, however many business hours, right?
00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:08.159
So letting them know what they can expect from you so you're not hog tied to Slack.
00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:14.799
Um, but it's really, I think it really comes down to like asking them what they want and what do you think they need to get the result.
00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:18.240
Yeah, that is such a great point.
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Like, survey the people who are interested in your program and find out what structure they'd like.
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Because I mean, to your point, I would love to go to a retreat.
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I've gone to one the entire time I've owned my business, and it was so difficult because I was coordinating my kids stuff at the same time.
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I was like, I can't do it.
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As much as as fun as it is, I can't do it.
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Yeah.
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It's just a it's just you gotta know what they need and what they want and what they what they can do.
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Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:54.240
So let's talk about inside of the program.
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How does the design of the program impact the one, the success of the students, but also the profitability.
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Yeah.
00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:16.879
So in terms of the success of the students, this happens a lot, is people think more is more.
00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:23.679
And that is not that could not be further from the truth in the land of TikTok and Instagram reels.
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Uh people don't people don't want to know everything they want to know, the everything you know.
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They just want to know what are the simple strategic things I need to do in what order to get said result.
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They want to do as little as possible.
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That is absolutely true.
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And I experienced it myself.
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Yeah.
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So I think it's like that that's really the one of the benefits of program design and like this skill of learning, like learning experience design, curriculum design, it is actually a skill.
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Just like copy is a skill and sales is a skill and podcast editing is a skill.
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Like it's a skill, and a lot of people don't realize that.
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Um, but when you know that skill, you know how to scaffold students from where they are right now to where they want to go in the easiest, most effective route possible.
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Um yeah, so more is not more, less is more.
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Make it as simple and easy as possible.
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Let's pause right there because I have to tell you a story.
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Oh, yeah, bring it on.
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When I started betaing tiny marketing club, I put all of the content they would need inside of it.
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And I started it off with a strategic spark.
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So I'd sit down with them one-on-one and I would tell them exactly what they needed to do, but they had access to everything.
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It they raised their hand, at least.
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They told me, they were like, I'm distracted because I know what I'm supposed to do.
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It's right here on this sheet.
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But then I'm like, well, that looks cool, and that looks cool, and that looks cool.
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So they would bounce around and they couldn't complete anything.
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And that's when I redesigned everything.
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So they're doing a mission in four weeks.
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This is what you need to accomplish, and these are the only things that you need to look at.
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And then I hide everything else.
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Powerful blood they told me though.
00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:15.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:19.360
It's like you you created a forcing function for focus.
00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:21.279
Yeah, yes, exactly.
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I was attracting a lot of people who have ADHD and creating those containers in a way where you had no choice but to focus on that one thing made it a lot easier for them.
00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:32.720
Yeah.
00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:46.639
And I I think that's something that most people in most niches uh need to consider is how do I help my students focus on the 20 that creates the 80% of results.
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And there are program design ways to do that.
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Like you said, is like you hit all the other content and they only got access to a certain amount of time.
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You can also do choose your own adventure uh programs where it's like there's a quiz or there's something, there's an AI agent or something at the beginning that kind of puts them in like a track.
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If you I like that idea.
00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:17.440
And then so even though you can have people who come in um with different challenges or different unique uh things about them, you can kind of personalize it.
00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:25.360
And then they feel like, oh, like this is this is just for me, but without it needing to be a one-on-one consultation call, right?
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:27.840
Yeah, that's yeah, super brilliant.
00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:31.200
And maybe I'll I'll take that for for later.
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Take it, take it.
00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:36.320
Um, so yeah, there's program design ways to create focus.
00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:46.639
And then the other thing is like just reminding your students, like so many people forget just because they bought something, just because they bought your program doesn't mean they're gonna engage with it.
00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:51.360
You know, yeah, like they buy it and they log in, but are you prompting them to log back in?
00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:54.320
Like, are you sending them engagement emails?
00:13:54.639 --> 00:14:00.879
Oh, could you run an ad just to your client list to remind them to do their homework that week?
00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:04.000
I mean, like, cheapest ad ever, you know what I'm saying?
00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:08.879
But like it increases the results that people get and it shows that you really care.
00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:10.960
So really smart.
00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:12.879
I never would have thought of that.
00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:13.519
Yeah.
00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.960
It's like you know, but you know exactly which email, you know?
00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:20.159
And you can do fun things like I see you on Instagram.
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Yes, it's your coach calling, and I see you on Instagram, and you need to stop the scroll because remember, this week is about whatever.
00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:28.559
Oh my god.
00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:29.360
I love that.
00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:32.559
That is a cute and brilliant idea.
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:34.080
Yeah.
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:39.679
So remember, like they're gonna get they're gonna get unfocused, they're gonna be distracted.
00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:52.080
How can you pull their attention back to where you want it by interrupting their their thought patterns wherever they are, whether that's email or text message campaigns or push notifications or ads.
00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:52.960
Yeah.
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:54.320
So smart.
00:14:54.639 --> 00:15:09.039
I just started within the last couple of months putting together workflows because they were getting weekly emails on what to do, but now I have workflows where like it automatically DMs them like, are you are you working on this right now?
00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.519
Ping me when you're ready to talk about it.
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.360
Which platform are you in?
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:14.559
Heartbeat.
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:14.960
Okay.
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.399
I don't know heartbeat, but uh, I don't know well, I should say.
00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:19.279
I know of it.
00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:20.720
We haven't built on there yet.
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:27.200
Um, but I love things like that, like bulk actions or um, and also on the flip side, right?
00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:32.159
Not just like connecting with them when they haven't logged in for seven days and that's the workflow trigger.
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:40.080
But when they complete something, having a DM that says, like, congratulations, you just unlocked this thing that you didn't know you were gonna get.
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:55.840
Or like giving, oh my gosh, this was this is crazy for course completion, is especially if you have like a cohort or if you have a tight kind of knit community, you can give them shout outs in the community for completing the module of the week because you can see their completion.
00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:57.600
Oh, yeah, that's a good idea.
00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:02.399
So it's like small little touches like that can go a long way.
00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:04.480
Positive peer pressure.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:06.240
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:14.159
Okay, so those are some design elements that can make sure that your your clients are successful in there.
00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:19.039
Now, what design elements would lead to higher profitability?
00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:21.200
Really good question.
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:24.159
Um, so we call them moneymakers.
00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:26.720
And I like the name already.
00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:28.720
We call them moneymakers.
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:35.919
The key here is to decide what you want to upsell.
00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:49.600
Um, if we think about you know, the three ways to grow a business, there's more clients, there's increasing the average transaction value, and there's increasing referrals or retention.
00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:58.159
So when we think about what are we upselling, um, that's one way to increase like the lifetime value of a client.
00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:03.759
So they didn't just buy your mini course, but they also bought your signature course, or they also opted in for coaching.
00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:08.160
And you can build those into a program in a lot of different ways.
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:17.200
You can literally talk about them in your videos, you can add them to workbooks, you can add them to portal copy, you can add them to sidebar buttons.
00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:26.079
Like there's a lot of ways you can talk about your other offers naturally inside of your programs from a place of not like go buy my more, go buy more shit now.
00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:32.079
It's not like that, but it's like, yeah, you know, especially like, oh, I love telling client stories.
00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:37.200
So for example, I have a mini course and Sarah, you're my mini course.
00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:37.440
Okay.
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.279
And, but you also bought my one-on-one coaching.
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:51.039
And so in the mini course, I tell your story and I'm like, oh my gosh, when Sarah, she she went through this module and it completely shifted the way she did X, Y, Z.
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.200
I'm so like, we're so happy for her.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:54.720
And it shifted so much for her.
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:57.759
She actually joined our one-on-one coaching and she got Y result too.
00:17:57.839 --> 00:17:58.720
Isn't that crazy?
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:01.680
And then you just kind of move into what's next.
00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:10.880
So you're like naturally opening loops and planting seeds throughout the whole journey with the assumption that they're joining the next thing that you have available.
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:12.400
Oh, that's really smart.
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:12.960
Yeah.
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:17.839
I do that in like workshops where people aren't part of my program yet.
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:26.160
Offer nodding, talking about like if one of my clients is also at that workshop bringing it up, but I haven't thought to do it that way.
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:27.440
That's really smart.
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:29.039
Yeah.
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:31.920
Um you can so you can do that, right?
00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:39.359
Like you can embed it into videos, into workbooks, into portal, into all of that, that good stuff.
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:47.519
Um, but you can also do things that support um the other ways to grow a business.
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.680
So that's like LTV.
00:18:50.240 --> 00:19:04.079
But can you do things like adding a really easy Instagram shareable celebration so that now they're posting your stuff to the internet about your program, which increases referrals.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:09.359
Like Mar, there's like a whole ton of things you can do, but it all is about strategy.
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:11.200
It's like, what are you upselling?
00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.519
When in the program are you talking about it?
00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:15.279
And how is it being delivered?
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:19.839
Um, so you gotta look at it from the it's hard to do this retroactively.
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:22.400
You kind of have to do it when you build the program.
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:23.839
Yeah, definitely.
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:25.680
For most of those for sure.
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