431. Make Your Podcast’s Differentiator Work for You

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Good morning podcasting Morning
Chat.

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Today is Thursday, January 8th,
2026, and today we're digging

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into the podcast Better Call
Daddy.

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From first impressions and intro
clarity to emotional

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storytelling and pacing, we're
uncovering what keeps listeners

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locked in.
So if you're listening live on

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Clubhouse, hit the share button,
bottom left hand side of the

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screen and share it.
However, Clubhouse lets you, and

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if you're listening, you'd be a
YouTube chatter LinkedIn.

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Share this with a fellow
podcaster and now give us about

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30 seconds and we'll get things
rolling.

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Thanks for being here.
Good morning again, podcasting,

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morning chat.
Thanks so much for being here.

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I am your host Mark Ronic.
Currently on stage with me we

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have Ralph Estep, Jonathan
Howard, BC Babbles, Ashley

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Feller, producer Ashley Feller,
Dr. Faye, Sid Meadows, Nick

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Naulback and Hall of Fame
inductee and Pod News.

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The man from Pod News himself,
James Cridland, has joined us

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this morning.
Morning for us, not for him by

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any stretch.
So today, as I said, we're going

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to breakdown.
Better call Daddy and I'll get

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into that more in a second.
First, a happy Clubhouse

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anniversary to you, Nick.
Do you have any clue how long

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you've been on Clubhouse?
At this point it's probably

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around the same as Sid.
Honestly, yeah, I, I thought

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that was kind of funny.
It was like the day after Sid.

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That's yeah, funny.
It had to have been 2020 or 2021

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because I remember when I joined
Clubhouse, I had found, I think

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it was this room when Pedro had
initially started it, and there

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was probably like five of us
that would consistently come in

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every morning.
It was like way early because he

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was doing like, safety.
He was in the safety industry,

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and I'm in the construction
industry.

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And some of these calls would
start at like 5 or 6 in the

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morning.
And we'd have, like, podcasting

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discussions with anybody who
would be up that early in

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joining us.
I think it had to have been 2020

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because it was before it got
like, stopped and then you guys

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came back in and took it over or
rebooted it again.

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And it's just kind of, I don't
know, it's funny.

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Yeah, done a while.
Well, I'm grateful you found it.

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You've been a big piece of what
we've been doing.

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Thank you for it, Nick.
And let me just dig in.

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Listen, I know there's a piece
of news, and James Cridland is

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here.
And James, I'll let's do this.

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Because these shows, these
evaluation episodes take us a

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little longer than usual.
But James, why don't you break

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the news for us officially here?
If you can keep it relatively

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brief, that would be awesome.
But yeah, there was a big

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headline that's just come across
our desks and I would love for

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you to share.
Yeah, 2, two big headlines, lots

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of exciting things from Spotify,
as is the Spotify way.

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But the big news for those of us
who've been in podcasting for

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quite some time is that Rob
Walsh, who was VP of podcast

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relations at Lib Syn, has left
the company, which is quite a

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surprise and shock.
So he announced it on his own

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show, which is weirdly not
hosted on Lib Syn anymore.

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Read into that what you will.
So a big change in terms of

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that.
He will be at Pod Fest next

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week, as many of us will, so
hopefully we'll be able to see

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him there.
And who knows, maybe you'll get

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a little exclusive with him
while you're there.

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Interesting and a shame.
I don't mean to be giggling and

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stuff about this because it is a
shame and Rob is a certainly a

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staple in this industry and we
wish him well.

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I'm very curious to hear what
he'll be up to next.

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James, did you have something
else?

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No, I was just going to agree
with you and I'm looking forward

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to finding out what he's doing
next as well.

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It doesn't sound as if he's got
anything lined up quite yet, but

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there is no one who knows more
about podcasting than Rob does.

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So I'm sure that he will find
somewhere and I wish him all the

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best.
Absolutely.

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And if he I'll have to reach out
if he wants a place to come hang

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with other podcasters, it would
be great to have him come here

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every so often as well.
All right, so before we jump

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into today's evaluation, I do
want to take a minute to remind

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everybody why we do these
sessions and why they matter so

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much.
Especially for indie podcasters.

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These evaluations are about
getting a set of fresh and

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thoughtful ears on a real
podcast, listening the way a

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real audience would, and talking
honestly about what's landing,

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what's confusing, and what could
be even stronger.

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Most podcasters never get this.
You publish an episode, maybe

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you see some downloads, maybe
you get a review or two, but you

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rarely get context.
You don't get to hear how new

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listeners experience your show
or where they lean in or where

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they drift.
And that's the value here.

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That's about clarity.
It's about confidence and small

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adjustments that can make a big
difference over time.

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And today's evaluation, I think
is a great example of that.

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We're looking at Better Call
Daddy and it's hosted by Reena

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Friedman Watts.
The premise of the show is

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simple and emotional and Reena
interviews interesting,

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sometimes well known or
controversial guests and then

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brings the conversation to her
dad who weighs in with his

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perspective and that happens at
the end of the show.

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The show explores relationships,
legacy and a little bit of

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father daughter dynamics.
And also maybe it maybe doesn't

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necessarily have to be daughter
father child dynamics because I

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know that she often talks to her
guests about their relationships

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with their dad.
This episode of her show is a

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little different.
Rena submitted an older episode,

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which is this is kind of a first
for us since we've been doing

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this for what, maybe 8 episodes
or so now?

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It's from 2022.
And she did that very

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intentionally.
I actually asked her if she

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wanted to resubmit something
that was more recent.

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It's just so we could give her a
more current critique, and she

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said no.
She was very clear that this

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episode really makes her proud.
And as she put it, the episode

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made starting her podcast worth
it.

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So today is about looking at a
moment that meant something

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deeply to this podcaster,
understanding why it works, and

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exploring how small shifts could
help more listeners feel what

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she felt when she made it.
And again, like I said at the

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top here, I think that this is
going to be very helpful for any

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podcaster or yeah, for any
podcaster, a lot of podcasters

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out there, because I think we
can often times apply some of

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these learnings to what we're
doing.

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So with that, I want to jump
right in and find out from

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everybody.
Maybe let's go with some first

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impressions.
What was your gut reaction in

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the first few minutes?
And remember that we're going to

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get into things like intros and
things like interview technique

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and stuff like that.
I want to know from you just

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what was your gut reaction in
the first few minutes BC good

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morning, go for it.
I thought Jerry Springer was

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dead.
Yeah, that's right.

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I should say that thank you.
Thank you for leading.

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With that, she had Jerry
Springer as her guest, the late

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Jerry Springer as her guest.
And yeah, I'm sure that would

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have been a little surprising if
you didn't realize I was giving

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you guys an older episode to
listen to.

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And granted, she seems to have
interviewed him not too long

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before his passing.
So that that, you know, just

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timing wise, I was like, oh, OK,
cool.

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I have to double check when the
episode came out, but that was

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my initial reaction.
OK, that's fair.

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That's fair.
Ralph, how about you?

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Good morning, My good morning.
My initial reaction was, oh,

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this is cool.
Jerry Springer.

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That's somebody I want to hear.
Yeah.

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I mean, I can tell you guys
actually in my some of my radio

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days when I was an intern for
that favorite morning show that

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I've referenced before, one of
the things me and my best friend

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who was doing this with me, what
we would do is at lunchtime, we

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would go into the break room and
turn on Jerry Springer.

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It would just entertain us
through and through.

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And we also used to we used to
always in our normal

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conversations, used to always,
you know, talk like Jerry

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Springer.
He has that thick New York

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accent.
All right, Sid, I'm coming to

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you and then Dr. wanted to chime
in as well.

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What was your initial reaction?
Good morning everybody.

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I actually really enjoyed this
show.

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I not a huge fan of political
talk when there was a lot of

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political talk in the show.
Interesting that it was 3 about

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four years ago almost strike and
some of the political things

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that he talked about are very
relevant in today's world.

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But I don't really enjoy
political shows, but I actually

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really enjoyed this.
She has a very natural way of

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having a conversation.
Is she?

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You could tell she knew the
guest.

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I thoroughly enjoyed listening
to this one.

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Thank you.
Yeah.

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Not only did she know Jerry, but
she worked for Jerry.

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She was, I know, at the very
least, an intern out of college

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for the Jerry Springer show.
I can't remember if she actually

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also ended up getting a paying
job for the show as well.

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But yeah, that's how that's the
tie there.

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So Dave, just put something in
the chat that I think is very

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important for us to talk about a
little bit later.

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So don't lose his chat, OK?
All right, well, let's just a

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little little sneak preview.
Call her Daddy.

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Better call Daddy is a pretty is
pretty close in name.

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What was that ever a topic of
conversation in the past?

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Yeah, that's a good question.
I thought about that too.

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As a matter of fact, I thought
about that because this morning

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when I went to search for her
website or pull up her website,

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I accidentally started started
calling it call her Daddy.

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And yeah, I had to delete and
redo.

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So, yeah, I don't know if that
was intentional, but quite

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frankly, I think my guess is
it's it was.

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And I know Rena a little bit.
Let me just throw that out

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there.
She's joined us here once or

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twice, not recently, but she's
been on this show over the

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course of our, what did I tell
you guys almost four years.

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Is that right, Dr. You wanted to
chime in.

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Y'all kind of stole my Thunder.
I thought that the fact that she

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used to work with him kind of
buried the lead a little bit.

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And also, I believe that she
eventually became one of the

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producers.
That's what I got from.

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Yeah, I think you're right.
Yeah.

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And also with her, and I know
she insisted on this specific

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episode, and this is going to be
helpful for the listeners.

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I'm not so sure it's going to be
as helpful to Rayna because she

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has evolved, everyone evolves.
And certainly after what was

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when was this 22, OK?
So certainly after four years,

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she has evolved.
Even her intro, which it's

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normally our thing that we
critique has evolved also.

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So for listeners out there, my
hope is that you submit

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something that is within six
months.

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Yeah, you know what, Dr. That's
a good point.

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Maybe we will add that as a
requirement.

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Although again, look, I'm
looking forward to breaking this

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whole thing down because there's
a lot to share, a lot to go

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through.
So it's not like this is a waste

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of time.
It's not a waste of time.

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The listeners will definitely
learn something from this.

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But I just think that in order
for Reyna to get the full impact

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of it, it should have been
something more.

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I agree, Dr. And I took one of
your suggestions you a few days

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ago when we were talking about
this show, you had suggested we

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should really play her newer
intro as well to, you know, show

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some of that evolution.
I will play those back-to-back

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for everybody, as a matter of
fact, why not?

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Now?
This way our audience can get a

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little familiar with Rena so and
her show.

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So I will play this intro and
then we'll talk a little bit

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about it and then we'll play the
newer 1 and maybe talk just a

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smidge about that one too.
Now, I, in Full disclosure, I

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like to share a lot of behind
the scenes with you all because

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you're podcasters and hearing
some behind the scenes stuff I

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think is helpful to you.
And as I share that with you, of

226
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:14,000
course, the idea that I wanted
to share just completely shoots

227
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,440
out of my head, which is quite
embarrassing and a frustrating

228
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,000
thing with ADHD.
Oh yes, I I don't have the

229
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,920
whoosh sounds.
I didn't produce these things

230
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,720
with the whoosh sounds.
I realized that late last night

231
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,120
and of course I probably lost
about an hour's sleep for that

232
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,320
this morning.
But anyway, here we go.

233
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:39,200
Here is the series intro that
she was starting her podcast

234
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,240
with in 2022.
Welcome to the.

235
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:46,040
Better call daddy show.
This is Big Daddy.

236
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,360
Oh my God, that's hysterical.
More stories you are not going

237
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:50,320
to.
Believe.

238
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,680
And advice that you didn't know
that you needed.

239
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,720
Five stars. 5.
And a half stars.

240
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,840
We're creating a legacy, one
call at a time.

241
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,480
Here comes my daddy.
Your problem is is that you like

242
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,280
me?
My dad is my hero.

243
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,240
Always be there to take your
call and you'll never be in too

244
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,000
much trouble if your dad is
around.

245
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,880
Oh boy.
I think I'm a pretty cool dude.

246
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,320
Better call Daddy.
The safe space for controversy.

247
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,480
This is your host, Rena Friedman
Watts.

248
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,120
No, this is your host, Celia
Watts.

249
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:28,200
More inspirational stories, more
daddy drama and more laughs.

250
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,480
Hey, a lot of these things, I
don't know where you get them

251
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:31,720
from.
It sounds like they're coming

252
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,840
from when I look in the mirrors.
Damn the public.

253
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:40,760
Damn the public.
So let's get a few impressions

254
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,480
from everybody.
Your thoughts on the Better Call

255
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,680
Daddy intro?
I have thoughts, but I wanted to

256
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,040
let some of you go first.
My initial thoughts were I'm

257
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,520
happy that she put a music bit
in there pretty early because

258
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,000
otherwise the length of the
intro for me would have been a

259
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:04,360
little bits because sometimes I
use that to to not dictate, but

260
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,160
to kind of measure.
OK, Do I want to sit here and

261
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,160
wait for how long this will take
to end before the actual meet

262
00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,200
begins of the story?
So I'm happy she put that music

263
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,840
bit in there because it did kind
of fade a little bit as those

264
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,480
little sections went through and
then it kind of built back in to

265
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,400
kind of let us know, OK, we're
nearing the end of the intro

266
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:23,840
now.
It's going to start.

267
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,680
Pay attention.
It's about to begin.

268
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,160
So I appreciated that.
Thank you BC I agree with you.

269
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,680
I did feel like it was a little
long.

270
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,440
I'll bite my tongue though and
share my thoughts after Jonathan

271
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,920
and Ralph and Nick share.
Oh, and Sid now as well.

272
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,640
So let's hear from everybody.
Let me go to Jonathan because we

273
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,600
haven't talked to him yet this
morning and then I'll go down

274
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:47,760
the line.
Go ahead, Jonathan.

275
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,600
Good morning.
I feel it was a little bit long

276
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,800
and it felt a little bit
overproduced.

277
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,280
It just didn't need to be that
much.

278
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,040
Here's how I put it, and I
really I mean this.

279
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:02,520
I don't mean this to sound
negative, right, but I felt like

280
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,840
the intro was a little self
indulgent.

281
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,960
In other words, I felt like we
could have trimmed that down and

282
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:18,360
still gotten the same effect,
the same feel like, let me come

283
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,280
out of the gate here First.
Let me back up and say I love

284
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,800
how it started with her kids.
I feel like that's a pattern

285
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,920
disrupt, right?
Like I think a lot of us will

286
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,320
press play on a podcast.
We're going to expect an adult

287
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,440
voice.
I loved that.

288
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,520
And you know, it kind of fits
the charm of this is somewhat of

289
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:40,160
a family thing, but I just felt
like there were too many clips

290
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,200
of the family.
Without context, it's hard to

291
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,000
sink your teeth into it.
So my suggestion would have been

292
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,880
to really cut that down.
It's a minute long almost of an

293
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,680
intro.
My suggestion was going to be to

294
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,000
cut it down, honestly to no more
than 30 seconds, but my

295
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,880
preference would be 1015 seconds
when the skip button exists.

296
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,480
Why would, why produce so much
of an intro?

297
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,720
Because I, I, I think it's safe
to say we know a lot of people

298
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,599
know how to use it and aren't
shy to use it.

299
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,640
Ralph, you wanted to add
something.

300
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,640
Go ahead.
What I was going to say is for

301
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,599
me, the intro was a huge
disappointment because I had

302
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:22,560
read that Jerry Springer was
going to be on this.

303
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,920
And then I heard the intro and I
was like, the audio wasn't

304
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,800
great.
It seemed like it was all

305
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,160
jumbled up and I'm like, what
did I just click on?

306
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,240
If that's fair?
That's why I'm suggesting maybe

307
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,400
this be more like a 15 second
intro.

308
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,920
That's very clear and to the
point because this is a, this is

309
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,280
her series intro.
This is the intro that she will

310
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,440
play at the beginning of every
episode.

311
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,400
And she does a great job of
after that introducing the

312
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,080
guest, like right after that
introducing the guest.

313
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,360
But if this were shorter, I
think it would have gotten us

314
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:55,600
there quick, quicker and would
have satisfied the listener that

315
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,360
much more.
Let's go to Nick.

316
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,160
I'm kind of in the same boat to
what a lot of people had said to

317
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,040
me, which like after listening
to the episode and understanding

318
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,800
her background like this is a
good episode to get an

319
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,560
understanding of kind of her
roots.

320
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,440
The intro seemed very much like
a television talk show

321
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,600
introduction.
Which like I was with her TV

322
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,000
background.
Yeah, A. 100% So it makes sense

323
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,520
why she did it, but I feel like
they would had there would have

324
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,640
had to have been visuals that
accompanied it.

325
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,720
Because I'm just thinking as all
these clips are happening, like

326
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,400
it's flashing to all these
people talking.

327
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,040
Like it reminds me of like a
Jerry Springer introduction or

328
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,520
teaser to the show.
And obviously being audio only,

329
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,320
you just kind of lose some of
that like power that that would

330
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,920
have if you had the visuals
attached to it.

331
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,600
I think it could have been a
little confusing for people like

332
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,480
Ralph was saying, you don't
really know.

333
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,000
It doesn't give you a strong
sense of what the show's about.

334
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,920
You get a feel right.
But I want to know out of the

335
00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,920
gate as a new listener that this
is a show that yes, what what

336
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,240
she has these different guests
and they talk about sometimes

337
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,080
some controversial things and
they sometimes talk about family

338
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,520
life.
But I want to know the why is

339
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,040
this called better called Daddy,
Right?

340
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,640
And yes, we hear her dad, but
that's not enough for me to

341
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,120
understand what this what the
premise, what the hook is of

342
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,160
this show.
I want to hear out of the gate

343
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,480
that she interviews interesting
people.

344
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,640
And at the end, her and her dad
talk about it.

345
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,360
And then there's some context.
When you start playing little

346
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:31,600
clips of her dad, you get a
little bit of a feel for who he

347
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,040
is, so it it feels like it ties
it all together.

348
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,600
Yeah, I wasn't a fan of the of
the intro.

349
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,400
I didn't know who the girl, the
little girl was.

350
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,800
I thought it was kind of neat
and I don't know, just was too

351
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,320
busy for me and it didn't really
give me a clear idea of what the

352
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,160
show was about.
So I was not a fan.

353
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,680
As much as I liked the show, I
was not a fan of the intro.

354
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,760
Thank you, Sid.
And so now we're going to play

355
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,160
this.
I pulled from what I believe, at

356
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,480
least at the time yesterday that
I pulled it.

357
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,920
I believe this is her newer
intro.

358
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,400
This is the most recent episode
of her show.

359
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,680
And you're going to hear, I
believe you're going to hear a

360
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,440
big difference.
I would say that the only thing

361
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,320
that I was slightly disappointed
about is it's actually a little

362
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,440
longer, but I think it
accomplishes more of what we've

363
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,040
been talking a little bit about.
So let me go ahead and play

364
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,800
that.
I'm your host, Reena Friedman

365
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,520
Watts, and this is the better
call.

366
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,120
Daddy Show.
Hey, this is Big Daddy Wayne

367
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:31,280
Friedman, so.
That's my grandpa, Grandpa.

368
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,760
You ready for more daddy drama?
My dad is my number one hero and

369
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,760
#1 fan.
And I'm a pretty cool dude.

370
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,280
All right, Season 4, baby.
Here we go.

371
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,320
More stories you're not going to
believe.

372
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,520
And maybe you will after you
listen.

373
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,440
Five stars. 5 1/2 stars, 2
thumbs up.

374
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,920
You are a pretty cool dude.
Don't stand on the table and

375
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,240
damn the public.
You'll get some words of wisdom

376
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:57,880
to live by.
Here we go again.

377
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,360
Better call Daddy.
You know what your problem is?

378
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,360
You like me?
Yeah, I do.

379
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,880
Each week I interview a guest,
share the stories with my dad,

380
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,320
and then he weighs in at the end
of every episode with his wisdom

381
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,520
and wit.
Everyone from influential

382
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,960
players to inspirational fathers
and of course, controversial

383
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,520
people.
Grandpa, my mom is calling.

384
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,400
Creating that legacy one call at
a time.

385
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,720
And welcome to the better call
Daddy Show.

386
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:32,560
Where's the music?
All right, I'm going to fade it

387
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,800
out here because this is
probably another 1015 seconds,

388
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,760
but I do I it's cute to have the
little custom song there.

389
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,920
But again, Rena, with all due
respect and I hope you know that

390
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,920
I do have a ton of respect for
you and what you do.

391
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,520
I I think that this is all just
too much.

392
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,920
As a new listener, I would be
starting to get impatient.

393
00:21:55,040 --> 00:22:00,880
I loved how Rena did that.
Better explanation or any

394
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,880
explanation, but she did a
really good job.

395
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,160
I think she nailed the premise
of the show, what she does, who

396
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,480
her dad is, why you know, why
she's bringing them in.

397
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,960
Like, I think it all works much
better.

398
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,960
I think you can get rid of a lot
of those little sound bites.

399
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,160
The sound bite montage keeps
them in.

400
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,160
I'm not trying to tell you to
get rid of everything.

401
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,280
I like that your kids are in
there, like I said, and I like

402
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,520
that your dad's in there for
sure, but I think you can

403
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,480
tighten this up a great deal.
To me this feels more like a

404
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,960
social media teaser for the show
than an intro to the podcast.

405
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,240
Like she could have cut it off
at the explanation or did the

406
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,520
explanation had a few little
sound bites like what she's got

407
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,600
and then cut straight into it?
I think that would be like the

408
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,040
perfect formula for what she's
already got. 100% and Nick, I

409
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,560
will, I will say this out loud
because you did say something.

410
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,320
Another positive thing too is
which was the audio quality was

411
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,760
way better on this one as well.
That's certainly a big

412
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,840
improvement.
Yes, Sid, go ahead.

413
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,440
I really liked it much better.
She could have stopped at Season

414
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,240
4.
We just said, now let's get into

415
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,680
Season 4.
She could have stopped right

416
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,000
there and it would have been
perfect.

417
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,880
I think.
I think it's still like too much

418
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,400
too much music at the end, but I
really enjoyed this one much

419
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,000
better than the one that I heard
on the show I listen to.

420
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:23,960
Agreed.
Let's check in with Jonathan.

421
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,160
Go ahead, Jonathan.
I think overall, like this intro

422
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,800
actually matched her branding
that she has on her website.

423
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,600
It feels like a cohesive piece
of content now.

424
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,760
So honestly, I liked it a lot
better.

425
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,600
Again, it was way too long and
she could have cut I think even

426
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,840
a little bit at the beginning
and then a chunk at the end

427
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,280
could have been clean taken out.
But yeah.

428
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,120
I might have even used a little
bit of the beginning of that

429
00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:53,080
theme song that started playing
there at the end, just to kick

430
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:58,040
it off and then fade it down a
bit and then do your whole intro

431
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,720
like you were saying.
Jonathan, Ralph, you want to

432
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,640
chime in?
Yeah, I had an idea for her

433
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,640
actually.
I think the kids are kind of

434
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,400
cute, but I do didn't put it in
the introduction, but that could

435
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,400
be a cool section of the show.
Maybe once she gets into the

436
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,840
spiel of what she's going to
cover on that show and then

437
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,680
maybe flashback to something
like that.

438
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,480
I think that would be impressive
and impactful.

439
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,080
But at the front end, it's just
too much.

440
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,440
Thank you, Ralph.
Good suggestion.

441
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,360
Here's what I want to do since
we just started talking a little

442
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:29,160
bit about the branding, I think
it might be good to talk a

443
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:30,720
little bit.
And then we've got more clips to

444
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,640
play for everybody as well.
But Jonathan, let me come to you

445
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,800
first.
What did you think about the

446
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,120
overall branding?
Let's talk a little bit.

447
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,480
And again, let's talk a little
bit about the cover art because

448
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,280
we are an audio first show and
if we spend too much time on it,

449
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,480
I think we're going to start
boring our audience, right?

450
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,880
But I think it's important to
call out some of the branding.

451
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,000
So let's go with the cover art
first.

452
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,200
Jonathan, your thoughts?
I wasn't a big fan of the cover

453
00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,720
art.
I didn't I don't like the

454
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,480
cartoony images and it didn't
match what her overall package

455
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,240
and branding looks like right
now.

456
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,640
So I thought her website
branding was much, much stronger

457
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,800
than her podcast cover branding
and matching something to that

458
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,080
would be I think a much better
option And having the, you know,

459
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,400
the title of the podcast be
clear and then you can put the

460
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,880
episode information on there.
That would just, I think it

461
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,280
would be much better.
I did do a mock up for that

462
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,960
since you know, our regular mock
up person is not here.

463
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,080
But that's right.
Thank you for doing that.

464
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,120
Yeah, absolutely.
I have to say, I did see

465
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:35,480
Jonathan's mock up and it looks
really, really good

466
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,880
comparatively to the current
artwork for the show.

467
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,520
And for me, it's like when I
look at the when I look at it,

468
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,080
it reminds me of like this
should be like if the nanny

469
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,640
sitcom did its own podcast.
That's what it reminds me of.

470
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,960
She looks like Fran Schaefer in
this artwork.

471
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,600
And so I'm like, I don't, I
don't know if that's, I think

472
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,400
that's the the actress's name
from the from the show, but I'm

473
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:03,000
like, I don't see how that
aesthetic ties into what the

474
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,800
concept is supposed to be.
Gotcha.

475
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,720
Well, listen, so I'll give my
thoughts for a second and say I

476
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,600
do like the cover art.
I'll say this.

477
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,680
It's very eye-catching and I
think it works.

478
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,120
You know, like the fact that
Jonathan doesn't isn't a big fan

479
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:19,760
of the cartoon look.
OK.

480
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,720
And that that can be subjective,
right?

481
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,160
But when we talk about being
eye-catching among a sea of

482
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,440
different podcast cover art, I
think it does stand out.

483
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,000
And I think it does do a decent
job of conveying the at least

484
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,480
speaking to the title.
Right?

485
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,000
Because it's her with a phone in
her hand and her dad kind of

486
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,520
coming out of the phone, her
cartoon dad coming out of the

487
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,320
phone, almost like a ghost
looking thing where he's.

488
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,920
Yeah.
Anyway, I think it works really

489
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,520
well.
But I think the big point

490
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,600
Jonathan just made is that it
doesn't match the rest of her

491
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,200
branding, her website.
I think it's really well done.

492
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,440
The branding looks great.
It looks sharp.

493
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,000
It looks professional.
It peaks my interest, so I want

494
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,680
that cover art to match the
branding.

495
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,400
Jonathan, I think did a good job
of at least showing what that

496
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,880
could look like.
Maybe it's not exactly the

497
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,320
rendition to go with, but it it
puts you on the path.

498
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,600
So we'll share that in the show
notes.

499
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,320
Jonathan, can we share that
Canva link in our show notes

500
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:26,720
that you just shared in the
chat?

501
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,000
Absolutely.
So we'll do that so that our

502
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,800
audience can hear what we're
talking about.

503
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,400
And now Dr. if you have a
minute, I wanted to come to you

504
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,280
because I know you tend when we
do these evaluations, you like

505
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,920
to focus on titles and
descriptions and that's all part

506
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,040
of the branding.
So I wanted to get your take.

507
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,240
Well, I do think it's too close
to call her daddy.

508
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,480
And why do we think that's a
problem?

509
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,080
By the way, 'cause I hear, I've
seen it in the chat too.

510
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,520
And quite frankly, I look at it
and think great strategy.

511
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,160
It feels similar to better call
Daddy.

512
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,840
But it I'm sorry to call her
daddy.

513
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:09,280
I don't want my audience to get
confused because they will

514
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,840
probably go to the more popular
one, the one that is, you know,

515
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,960
has all the money behind them
and think, is this what my

516
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,280
friend just did?
This is my OK, this is what I

517
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,320
was told to tune into.
I wouldn't mind having some of

518
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,120
her audience come over to me.
That would be great.

519
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,240
But it's a double edged sword.
So I would probably steer away

520
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,280
from having it so close.
So this is really more, I think,

521
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,200
less for Rena at this point, and
I'll explain why in a second and

522
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,720
more for the audience who's
maybe thinking about naming a

523
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,160
podcast.
Because Rena's established this

524
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,560
now as her brand and she's 400
plus episodes in.

525
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:54,080
She recently got recognized as a
top podcast from Medium.

526
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,680
I don't think she has any plans
or intention of changing the

527
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,800
name exactly.
And overall, maybe this is too

528
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,920
early in our conversation for me
to say this, but I'm going to

529
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,080
say I'll just put it out there.
I think that it would have been

530
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:15,760
a better thing to incorporate
Dad into the interview more than

531
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,280
just an afterthought or the
takeaways or something like

532
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,480
that.
For instance, if Dad loved his

533
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:30,040
59 Chevy growing up, why not do
an interview with someone who

534
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,880
collects 59 Chevys or something
like that and have them both

535
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,280
interview and then you'll hear
her father start to reminisce

536
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,600
and stuff like that.
Then it becomes less of this

537
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,160
show, this show title and show
as a tribute to daddy and more

538
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,360
of a, you know, he's really
involved in this.

539
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,120
Do you know what I'm saying?
I do know what you're saying.

540
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,360
And, and I think Ralph just made
a great point in the chat.

541
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,360
Ralph, will you share it here?
What I was going to say is for

542
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,120
format, what I think would be
much more impactful is if she

543
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,160
started talking to her dad sort
of at the beginning of the

544
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,000
episode and kind of set the
table and then got to the

545
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,520
interview and then we'd be able
to say, OK, cool.

546
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,120
Now I want to hear what dad has
to say.

547
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,880
But because when I listen to
this particular one episode, I

548
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,640
kept saying to myself, what in
the world does this have to do

549
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,000
with her dad?
I couldn't hear.

550
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,840
That was very much an
afterthought, very much a well,

551
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,680
I have daddy in the titles.
I need to bring him in.

552
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,440
That's the knee jerk reaction.
I knew that that wasn't it, but

553
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,880
I was trying to put myself in
the average listener's shoes.

554
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,760
Yeah.
And Dave in the chat says, isn't

555
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,280
this a reaction show?
Dad responds to her guest or

556
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,240
topic.
Yes.

557
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,480
And that's why Dave, I think
Ralph makes a great suggestion.

558
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,040
Let's introduce the audience to
Dad and the episode at the same

559
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,560
time.
And little side note for people

560
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,240
to really understand the
concept, what Rena does is she

561
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,360
does the whole interview, puts
the the episode together and

562
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,560
then hands it off to her dad,
who listens.

563
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,480
And then she sits down with her
dad and records a session with

564
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,560
him, short session with him
discussing the that actual

565
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,320
interview that pick up at the
end.

566
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,960
It's very organic.
Sometimes it does not stay on

567
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,840
topic, right?
They have a little bit of banter

568
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,040
and sometimes maybe get a little
off topic.

569
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,200
Let me piggyback on to Ralph's
idea.

570
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,240
I really do like that idea
because I just think it's

571
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,880
important for us.
Even if her dad is more, you

572
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,680
know, just of a response type
type of thing, I still think

573
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,120
it's important for the audience
to start to get to know him a

574
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,960
little bit right away.
I think that's and then I think

575
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,680
to add on to what Ralph was
saying, I'm going to date myself

576
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,800
for a second.
Why not do this a little bit

577
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,760
like pop up video, the old VH1
show, where they could be

578
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,560
talking about something, her and
her guest, and then maybe

579
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,120
there's a sound effect, a
whoosh, something where Dad

580
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,360
comes in and gives his two cents
about what they're talking about

581
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,120
and then go back to the
interview.

582
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,680
Like it could be confusing if
you don't do it right.

583
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,680
But Rena's ATV producer, I think
she would probably be able to

584
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,320
figure out how to make that
work.

585
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,000
But that could be another way to
do it.

586
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,680
This way it feels more like the
dad's a part of the show all the

587
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,120
way through.
Good suggestions and I liked the

588
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,240
banter at the end.
Just FYII liked that her and her

589
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:24,000
dad connect at the end and we
get more of Rena's back story as

590
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,280
far as her TV careers,
specifically with Jerry

591
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,720
Springer, and we'll play some of
those clips as well.

592
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,000
Go ahead, Sid.
As it belates back to the

593
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,960
question about the title of the
show, I don't listen to any

594
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,320
other one with a similar title.
Right.

595
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:42,040
It's called her Daddy, but it's
so close that I didn't.

596
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,080
This is not me, but the names
are so close.

597
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,360
It could be perceived that she's
trying to ride the coattails of

598
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:54,640
that really successful Uber huge
show by having a name that's

599
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,480
really close.
But I also agree with something

600
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,880
somebody else said, which is I
could find the wrong show.

601
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,760
I could find the wrong show
because the names are so close

602
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,120
and you think I'm going to start
listening to her, but then I end

603
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,160
up listening to something else
that she loses a potential

604
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,680
listener, right, long term
listener.

605
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,080
But I also understand she's
almost 500 episodes in.

606
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:15,440
I'm not changing the name of my
show.

607
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,880
And I went through this
personally in considering in the

608
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,000
in kind of what I'm doing for
season 7 of my show.

609
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,480
I consider changing the name of
my show and the people that I

610
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,520
talked to were like said that
the name of the show is directly

611
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,240
identifiable to you.
Why would you change it?

612
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,400
And when you get so far down the
road, you can't change it?

613
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,880
But for me, the only thing was
just the play of words.

614
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,000
It's really close to each other.
And it could be perceived that

615
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,560
she's trying to ride the
coattails of that Uber success.

616
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,320
I want the time in specifically
on this piece as well, and

617
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,440
again, primarily for other
podcasters that are starting

618
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,520
their shows.
Like just getting into it,

619
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,920
trying to find a name like
something like this where Call

620
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:02,080
Her Daddy is so wildly popular.
I could see in an instance or

621
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,520
probably a lot of instances, if
someone came up to you and said,

622
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,640
hey, have you ever listened to
Better Call Daddy?

623
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,960
The first response is going to
be like, yeah, I have not

624
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,480
knowing or not realizing that
it's a different show from Call

625
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,960
Her Daddy.
And I think just that confusion

626
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:22,600
alone, like go listen to episode
153 of Better Call Daddy.

627
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,280
Someone just naturally going in
and going to call her Daddy and

628
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,760
picking that episode instead
because they don't realize that

629
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,679
they're different.
I call her daddy.

630
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:33,960
Name is people recognize that
name even if they've never

631
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,800
listened to the podcast
themselves.

632
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,719
But I think that alone could
create some massive confusion.

633
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,840
Obviously in this case, like we
mentioned, she's built the

634
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,280
brand.
She's obviously got a following

635
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,920
behind it.
So I mean, it is what it is.

636
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,120
It is just going to be harder to
get new audiences that are

637
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,880
already familiar with the other
brand.

638
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,840
Some say it's a, it could be an
SEO nightmare.

639
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,120
I don't have a problem with it
personally, and I don't mind

640
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,120
even if that was her strategy to
ride the coattails a little bit.

641
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,040
And you know what?
If some people find my show

642
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,840
because they were looking for
call her dad, call her daddy

643
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:15,080
instead, OK, great, awesome.
And if they go, the other thing

644
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,040
we have to think about is these
could be very different

645
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,240
audiences.
Her target audience is probably,

646
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,280
I'm guessing here, but I think
her target audience is skews a

647
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,720
little bit older than the Call
Her Daddy audience.

648
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:31,680
So the call her Daddy audience
may not even know.

649
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,720
I'm sorry, let me finish that.
She might, her audience might

650
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:38,640
not even know Call Her Daddy
just because Call Her Daddy is

651
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,320
one of the most popular shows.
Let's not assume that everybody

652
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,160
knows what it is because there
are people out there, I promise

653
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,600
you that don't know that just
have no idea of the top five

654
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,640
shows of 2025.
We know because we live and

655
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,400
breathe podcasting.
But when you put Daddy in the

656
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,480
search, no matter where it is in
your call her, Daddy better call

657
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:00,920
Daddy, it's still going to come
up.

658
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,880
And it's probably going to come
up before hers comes up, you

659
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,360
know, in the in the line of
things.

660
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,840
And my question is, yeah, I
don't mind the better call

661
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,760
Daddy, you know what I'm saying?
Yes.

662
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,120
The two shows are completely
different, wildly opposite

663
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,680
audiences.
Like the better Call Daddy show

664
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,080
is in many cases more of like a
family show and I've listened to

665
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,560
Call Her Daddy and it is like a
while ago.

666
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,320
I haven't listened to it
recently so I don't know, maybe

667
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,240
it's changed.
It is very much on the more

668
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:34,960
inappropriate side of things,
right?

669
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,800
Not a family show.
So if Better Call Daddy audience

670
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,640
members landed on Call Her Daddy
thinking it was the correct

671
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,320
show, you would have a very
negative impact on our audience.

672
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,560
OK, I'm going to go to BC and BC
before you speak, I just want to

673
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,480
share the one thing that I
that's not sitting well.

674
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,720
Like you guys are all making
great points and what's not

675
00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:00,440
sitting well is like so now
because call her Daddy is so

676
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,760
popular, nobody can use daddy in
their titles anymore.

677
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,720
I just went on to pod linked and
searched Daddy and there are

678
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:11,920
plenty of other shows that have
daddy in the title and I don't

679
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,200
think they're all trying to ride
the coattails of Call Her Daddy.

680
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,560
There's a couple.
I see one here, Teach me Daddy.

681
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,440
I could see that.
But there's Dear Daddy, the

682
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,000
Daddy Dom podcast, the Pod
Daddy.

683
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,320
Why now does she get to own that
word?

684
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,720
That doesn't sit with me.
It's the word call.

685
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,160
It's the fact that the word call
is in her title and call.

686
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,640
I see.
It's the combination.

687
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,440
It's the combination.
I just say that in 2020 is when

688
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,040
Call Her Daddy started popping,
which is the same year and her

689
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,800
podcast was actually out a
little bit before it seems late

690
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,800
spring when this Call Her Daddy
started popping.

691
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,280
So I she might have been on the
early side of it.

692
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,320
Call Her Daddy was out in 2018,
but it didn't start really

693
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,880
gaining traction until 2020.
OK, I think we've talked enough

694
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,920
about BC.
I'll let you close us out so

695
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,200
that we can dig more into the
episode itself.

696
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,920
My thoughts, audiences aside,
SEO aside, searching aside, my

697
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,640
one practical concern would only
be if one party had actually

698
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,560
trademarked the phrasing because
I wouldn't want anyone, party or

699
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,000
the other to get into any kind
of legal trouble because of the

700
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,840
phrasing.
I mentioned that also because

701
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,680
you mentioned our mutual
colleague yesterday, Alex

702
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,000
Sanfilippo, who has a podcast
called Podcasting Made Simple,

703
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,280
and I'm working with a colleague
right now building a consulting

704
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,680
website, and that same phrasing
was used on the website.

705
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,160
I'm like, OK, let's be careful
here.

706
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,360
I don't know if this is
trademarked elsewhere, so let's

707
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,280
be careful how we use the.
Phrasing.

708
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,120
Thank you BC now I want to get
into some clips.

709
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,560
We talked a little bit about it
in the intro and again, it's a

710
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,840
show from 2022.
It was earlier in her podcasting

711
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,920
career.
The audio quality is not the

712
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:04,160
best, but I'd say, and I think
others have agreed here on this

713
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,920
stage, that it's still
acceptable in the sense that we

714
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,400
could hear Rena and Jerry very
clearly.

715
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,480
It was just very echoey, which
could turn some people off.

716
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,560
So for maximum impact, if she
didn't have a good mic or a

717
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,040
recording environment at the
time, she was just kind of

718
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,120
hitting record and just pushing
forward anyway.

719
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,680
When Yeah.
And this was again in 2022, she

720
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,440
could have ran it through
offonic.

721
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:34,080
Offonic has been around and was
a thing even a few years back or

722
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,240
something similar.
But at the end of the day,

723
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:40,080
again, the audio was, in my
opinion, acceptable.

724
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,480
It just could have been a lot
better and has since improved

725
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:49,680
greatly on her newer episodes.
OK, so with that, the first clip

726
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,120
is her establishing, in my
opinion, some really good

727
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,840
rapport with Jerry Springer
right out of the gate because

728
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,440
even though we know that they
work together, it clearly had

729
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:06,160
been some time since they had
talked and he didn't seem to

730
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,440
work directly with her to the
point that he really remembers

731
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,520
her.
I'm going to play it and then we

732
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,560
can talk a little bit more about
it.

733
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,480
Let me make sure I'm pressing
the right one.

734
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:17,920
Yes, I am.
Here we go.

735
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:21,040
Today's guest almost needs no
introduction.

736
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,240
He had one of the longest
running talk shows in history

737
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:28,920
and he started my career.
Jerry Springer, welcome.

738
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,000
Wow, this is so surreal.
I mean no.

739
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,800
You are so nice.
Oh, it's been years.

740
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,440
You Remember Me?
Well, I remember you as a kid.

741
00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:40,920
You dear.
You worked under what's?

742
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,000
What's his?
Name Toby.

743
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,440
Toby.
Yes, Toby.

744
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,680
He was a character.
Yes, he was.

745
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,680
Yesterday I caught up with
Cheyenne for 3 1/2 hours.

746
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,800
Oh my God.
Right.

747
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:57,760
Yeah.
Isn't that crazy?

748
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,480
I feel like when you experience
something like the Jerry

749
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,840
Springer show, only people that
have experienced the Jerry.

750
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,640
Springer Show.
Understand what that was like.

751
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,520
There wouldn't be just like a
club.

752
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,160
One piece of feedback I would
give here is she dropped.

753
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:21,080
She does some name dropping and
to the audience it just doesn't.

754
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,360
It just doesn't land in my
opinion.

755
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,520
Makes me feel like it's inside
baseball and I'm missing

756
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,200
something.
I think it's important that she

757
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,280
establishes that rapport with
Jerry and starts calling out

758
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,080
names and stuff.
But I don't know that you need

759
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,520
all of you don't need the name
dropping for the audience.

760
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,520
But I will say that she does
call back to one of the names

761
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,520
she references later in the show
because that one of those people

762
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,880
had a question for Jerry and so
she calls back to it.

763
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,000
So it kind of helps tie it a
little bit.

764
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,880
But again, I just don't think
it's necessary.

765
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,920
Yeah, and I know at my initial
eval for the show was that she

766
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,480
always sent her like really
energetic, really enthusiastic

767
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,080
and genuine.
But now kind of rehearing at

768
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,920
least that part.
I do think there were a couple

769
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,440
moments that that felt a little
performative.

770
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,480
Not saying that she intended
that or that she wasn't being

771
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,920
genuine, but the but there were
some inflection points that to

772
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,960
me were like I don't know if
this sounds supernatural.

773
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,000
BC you know what I think it is,
what I heard was it was more of

774
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,160
a giddiness.
I think that she was so honored

775
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:27,080
and excited that he was there,
that she was building that

776
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,440
rapport for herself just as much
as she was for him to just kind

777
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,920
of loosen up and get
comfortable.

778
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,640
And I also wonder if maybe there
was just too quick of a cut

779
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,560
between cursing Jerry Stringer
than going into Oh my God, this

780
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,800
is amazing.
Maybe if there was a just a tiny

781
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,840
bit more space there, the flow
would have been a bit, would

782
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,440
have come off a bit more
natural.

783
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,360
I agree with you there.
I noticed that too.

784
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:54,040
We all fall into this trap of
stacking questions.

785
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,360
And in her case, she wasn't
stacking a question, but she

786
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,720
said welcome Jerry Springer.
And then she's like, he needs no

787
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,240
introduction, welcome Jerry
Springer.

788
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:06,040
And then she immediately went
into talking.

789
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,600
I think when you welcome
somebody to your show, you

790
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,680
should pause and let them
respond where she just jumped

791
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,880
right in with something rather
than pausing and letting him

792
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,040
respond.
I agree.

793
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:23,120
And I think that is because she
pre recorded the intro and then

794
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,160
after she said welcome Jerry
Springer, then she edited in the

795
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,920
interview and that was the I
guess most natural point, I'm

796
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,360
assuming that she could find.
But I think that's a really key

797
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,560
point when we when we're editing
our own podcasts, I think a lot

798
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,120
of us might not think that all
the way through, right?

799
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,280
And again, these are like minor
details, right Where then that's

800
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,800
the idea of these evals.
It's just how can we help you

801
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,000
improve these shows that much
more or where are their areas

802
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,800
for improvement?
But like my point a moment ago

803
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,760
about the name dropping stuff
that that's somewhat subjective

804
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,800
and it's just a suggestion.
It's not a make or break in my

805
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,280
opinion.
It could turn off a few

806
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,120
listeners, yes.
But you know, if that's just

807
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,680
something that she wants to keep
in, that's her prerogative.

808
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,560
OK, love this next clip.
Because the audience gets to

809
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:18,040
know the host immediately while
also build, continuing to build

810
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,280
that rapport with the guest.
It's a great strategy,

811
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,480
especially when you know the
person that you're interviewing.

812
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,560
So I'll play this and then we
can talk about it if we feel so

813
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,800
inclined.
That was an amazing experience.

814
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:34,000
I mean, 27 years Diesel, yeah.
It was like, truthfully, it was

815
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,360
my first job out of college.
I drove up to Chicago right out

816
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,000
of college.
Where were you in?

817
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,640
College.
I went to Purdue.

818
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,240
Yeah, I interviewed at WGN.
This is so crazy.

819
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,600
And in the same courtyard, I saw
a flyer that Jerry Springer was

820
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,560
looking for interns the same
trip.

821
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,720
And so I was like, Oh my God.
So I called the number.

822
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:01,120
I got a hold of Nathan
Cotterman.

823
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:02,640
Do you remember?
He worked for Rochelle.

824
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,600
Oh, Nathan, Yeah.
Oh my, these names are coming

825
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,160
back.
And same day like I walked over

826
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:15,960
to NBC tower from WGN, it was
just right across the way and I

827
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,480
graduated 2 weeks later and
started as an intern.

828
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:24,120
So again, I just like the way
that we both learn a little bit

829
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,040
about Rena and hear her natural
way with somebody.

830
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,760
It feels really good.
She's got this confidence about

831
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,080
her and this there's something
comforting about listening to

832
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,360
her that I that I really
appreciated.

833
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,840
Let's talk a little bit about
her interviewing style.

834
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,160
Did anyone I know we talked a
little bit about it earlier.

835
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,400
I feel like somebody had
mentioned it, but how does

836
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,360
everybody feel about her
interview style, her tactics,

837
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:54,480
how she gets her guests talking?
I really enjoyed her interview

838
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,640
style and how she kind of teased
a little bit of the stories out

839
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,560
of the situations.
And I mean, he's Jerry Springer,

840
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,320
so he did run away with the
conversation a couple times.

841
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,640
That could have been reeled in a
little bit.

842
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,080
But overall, I thought, you
know, because when you're

843
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,080
looking to get the stories out
of people, you got to kind of

844
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,280
let them go a little bit.
So maybe a little post on those

845
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,920
things.
But yeah, overall, I thought she

846
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,360
did a fantastic job letting
them, letting him tell the

847
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,480
stories.
And I actually loved hearing how

848
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,520
Jerry Springer got his show.
I thought that was really

849
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,160
interesting.
I loved the 1st 15 minutes.

850
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,160
I'm with Sid, I'm not into
political stuff.

851
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,800
I did that for five years as ATV
producer and didn't really enjoy

852
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,360
it then either.
But that again, subjective,

853
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,760
right?
That's just not my thing it and

854
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,880
it does, as Sid had pointed out
earlier, it does take that very

855
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:49,560
political turn and Jerry's very
passionate and as some people

856
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,080
may know, he also has been in
politics.

857
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,640
But you know what the problem
is, is that with that passion,

858
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,720
it created some tangents and
some of his answers went on and

859
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:04,200
on.
And he clearly has very strong

860
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,320
opinions.
But even if you agree with his

861
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,240
opinions, it might still feel a
little bit long and drawn out.

862
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,960
So I think that there are two
options in a situation like

863
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,880
this.
One is cut the guest off at some

864
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,120
point, like literally during the
interview, which I get is harder

865
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,600
to do with a mentor, a friend, a
high profile guest.

866
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,520
Your other option is what
Jonathan was just saying edit

867
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:33,920
things down in post production.
And listen, I know personally

868
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:39,640
how challenging it is to do
content editing, especially when

869
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,880
it's a high profile person,
because you you're afraid, at

870
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,400
least for me, I'm afraid that
I'm going to cut something out.

871
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,840
That's that maybe my audience
really needed to hear.

872
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,920
And I feel like, well, it's
somebody important, somebody

873
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,520
famous who has a following.
So I want to, I just, I feel

874
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:00,960
like I I obligated to leave it
all in.

875
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,120
But I think what's important
here is that you are doing a

876
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,560
show, you're trying to also
entertain people.

877
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,960
So I think just trying to sit
and just try to sit and find

878
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,400
what are the main points here in
this discussion?

879
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,520
And do I really need all of
those details to get those

880
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,320
points across?
The thing about sensitive topics

881
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:30,480
or hot topics like politics or
religion or sexual orientation

882
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,600
or whatever it is, those can be
very polarizing topics.

883
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,040
And they have an opportunity to
also bring you guests, but they

884
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:43,160
also have this opportunity to
lose your audience if they don't

885
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,520
align with the beliefs that are
being talked about.

886
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,680
So for me, I don't talk about
any of that on my show.

887
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,240
I keep it very neutral from that
perspective because I don't want

888
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:57,800
my listeners to feel alienated.
And so I think when you're going

889
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:02,600
down this path and somehow the
conversation as the hose it is

890
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,840
the conversation leans to
something you don't really want

891
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,880
to talk about, you can bring it
back and bring it back really

892
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,200
quickly.
Say, hey, I really appreciate

893
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:10,800
that, Mark, but let's move on to
this.

894
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,960
And I'd like to understand this
question again.

895
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,840
You can edit things out as you
want to edit things out, but as

896
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,640
the host, remember, it's your
show and it's your job to guide

897
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,760
the conversation as best as
possible.

898
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,160
And if you're like me and trying
to avoid certain topics didn't

899
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,280
guide it so that it doesn't
cross into those into those

900
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,720
boundaries for me.
Thank you, Sid.

901
00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:36,080
I was trying to find the right
words to say exactly what you

902
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:37,680
said, so I appreciate that you
did.

903
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,200
And I'm going to go to Dr. in a
second.

904
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,600
I just wanted to say the one
thing that we have to think

905
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:46,360
about as far as if we're
alienating our audience because

906
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,080
it's a hot topic, a political
topic, it's very possible.

907
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,960
And from what I know of what
I've heard of other episodes and

908
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,080
not many, I have no offense to
Rena.

909
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,480
I haven't heard, I, I'm not like
a regular listener of show, but

910
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,200
I feel like maybe her audience
might learn more towards Jerry's

911
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:08,800
perspectives anyway.
So it might be if she knows her

912
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,920
audience and look, let's face
it, Jerry, Jerry leans left.

913
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,920
I'll just put it that way for
now, OK?

914
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:21,000
And so maybe her audience is
more leaning left and so maybe

915
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,560
that suits her audience.
So we we have to think about

916
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,720
that too.
Maybe she just knows who her

917
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:28,440
target audience is and that
serves them well.

918
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,840
Keep in mind that in the intro,
I think she mentioned that this

919
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:37,000
is the uncensored place, the
controversial place.

920
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:42,320
So she set up the fact that, you
know, some things are going to

921
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,720
be said that are provocative and
good for her for doing that.

922
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:48,080
Yeah.
Yeah.

923
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,120
I think that's important if you
are going to do that.

924
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,920
I think she does a great job of,
you know, setting that table so

925
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,760
people know what they're getting
into because I know we're short

926
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,880
on time, but I do want to try to
get to some more clips.

927
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,680
Give me bear with me one second.
All right, let's play.

928
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,000
Let's you know what let's
because it is call her daddy.

929
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,480
Let's let's play a little bit of
the segment with her dad.

930
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,080
Good morning, Vietnam.
Oh my God, Dad, do you remember

931
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:18,000
what a stress case I was before
each show that I produced and

932
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,400
how I would call you in a
complete and utter total panic?

933
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:22,880
You've been doing that your
whole life.

934
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,320
It's called butterflies before
the game.

935
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,840
If you didn't do it, it wouldn't
be natural.

936
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,440
It wouldn't be where you oh,
that's how you get your juices

937
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,520
flowing, That's what makes you
human.

938
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:35,920
And then you perform
brilliantly.

939
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,640
But seriously, Dad, like, do you
remember when I would call and I

940
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:43,400
didn't have any guests?
Like the day before the show was

941
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,640
going to tape and I'm like, I
guess I'll be here all night.

942
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,320
I'm literally going to be
pounding the phone all night

943
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,320
going through binders and
binders of numbers to get people

944
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,640
to come because I'm not leaving
until it's booked.

945
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,640
Sometimes your best comes out in
the two-minute drill.

946
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:00,720
Sometimes our death is not where
we play the game all day or all

947
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:03,480
week long.
Sometimes it has to be done and

948
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,480
one and the last second is how
you win a game.

949
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,800
So I liked how this opened up.
It kind of piggybacked off of

950
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,720
how the show started, where she
gets back into gives us more of

951
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:18,000
her back story, more of what
went on behind the scenes for

952
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,640
her on the Jerry Springer show.
And I like that.

953
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,360
And I like the dynamic of daddy
coming in and giving his

954
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,200
insightful wisdom around what
she was experiencing.

955
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,160
And then they do go and and talk
a little bit more about the

956
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,800
episode.
Dr. did point out that sometimes

957
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:38,120
they they would go a little bit
away from what I was actually

958
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,040
being discussed during the
interview.

959
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,360
But again, there's a little bit
of a charm to that that I like.

960
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,640
I think it helps establish the
dad character a little bit.

961
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,080
But yeah, I think that it could
be a little more sharp and

962
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,960
concise.
But I think maybe that's just

963
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,720
that's just her and her dad and
in the dynamic.

964
00:52:55,720 --> 00:53:00,840
And if that's kind of what the
foundation of the show, then so

965
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,880
be it.
I know we're short on time that

966
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,840
I really wanted to get this in
her show notes specifically for

967
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,520
this episode that we are talking
about.

968
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,360
You know, normally show notes
are about the episode.

969
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:20,000
This was Jerry Springer's entire
bio and I get the impression

970
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,440
looking at some of her other
show notes, I get the impression

971
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:28,240
that she is a podcaster who
wants to use up the entire

972
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,920
maximum possible characters in
show notes.

973
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,680
Because this was this was long,
you had to keep scrolling to get

974
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,400
to the end of it.
I think there's an opportunity

975
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,200
there to do something.
And I looked at the show notes

976
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:46,640
from the most recent one and she
has really switched them up

977
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,120
quite a bit.
She puts keywords in there now

978
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,680
and she, you know, there's a
section at the bottom with

979
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,480
keywords that says keywords.
So she has switched them up

980
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,400
quite a bit.
But yeah, show notes, yeah.

981
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:00,640
And good.
I'm glad you pointed that that

982
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,600
out.
And I know we've said it several

983
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,520
Times Now, but it is important
to call these things out that,

984
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,760
you know, if we're if our
audience goes now and looks at

985
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:12,720
her show and only focuses on
this older episode, we want to

986
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:14,960
make sure to point out things
like the show notes were too

987
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,840
long.
Clearly Rena has evolved and has

988
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,720
fixed that up since then.
So it's important to just call

989
00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:25,720
these things out for our
audience who may be struggling

990
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,720
with their show notes.
I guess what I should do here is

991
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,760
in the spirit of Jerry Springer,
I should maybe share some final

992
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,040
thoughts with you.
So first, Rena, I want to say

993
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:42,040
this really clear.
This episode works because you

994
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,440
work your rapport with Jerry is
real.

995
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,480
The 1st 10 to 15 minutes are
genuinely strong.

996
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:54,200
The conversation feels natural.
It feels relaxed and grounded,

997
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,040
and that's not something every
host can pull off.

998
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,400
It's also obvious that the
episode meant a lot to you,

999
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,800
which you had told us so.
And when a creator, when a

1000
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:09,080
creator says this episode made
starting my podcast worse, that

1001
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,440
that matters.
And that emotional connection is

1002
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,480
worth protecting.
The biggest opportunity here

1003
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,800
isn't about fixing something
that's broken.

1004
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:22,000
It's about making what's already
what already works clearer and

1005
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,520
easier for new listeners to
follow.

1006
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,720
So a few things to consider just
to tie it all together.

1007
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,080
The concept I think is
compelling, but first time

1008
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,600
listeners need clearer framing
early.

1009
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,640
Who Daddy is and why his voice
matters should be unmistakable,

1010
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,440
not something people have to
figure out until the end.

1011
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,520
And again, her new era intro
definitely helps set that up

1012
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,200
better.
But if we're going to establish

1013
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,800
her daddy as a pivotal point,
put him in the title, put him in

1014
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,400
the cover art, talk about him in
the intro, I think we need as an

1015
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,520
audience to get to know him
better from right out of the

1016
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,120
gate.
And then Jerry.

1017
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,720
Jerry's passion is part of the
appeal.

1018
00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:07,880
But some of those tangents run
long.

1019
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,520
As we said, that's less an
interview issue and more of a

1020
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,680
post production opportunity.
The small edits can be can make

1021
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,920
big moments land harder, ending
on a strong line.

1022
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,280
And this is what I didn't get to
is the outro I thought was

1023
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,000
awesome.
I thought it was clear.

1024
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,920
I think she could have easily
just said to listen to more of

1025
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,160
these episodes go to my website
as opposed to listing Apple,

1026
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:37,000
Spotify and all the rest.
Again, the audio I'll say was

1027
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,520
acceptable, but cleaning it up
in post would elevate the

1028
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,800
experience without changing the
heart of the episode.

1029
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:50,520
And again, as we know, she does
that in newer episodes.

1030
00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:53,640
So big lessons.
Clarity beats the beats

1031
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:55,840
cleverness.
It's if listeners don't quickly

1032
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,000
understand who the show is for,
they won't stick around.

1033
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:04,520
Record long and edit tight.
Lean into your differentiator.

1034
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,640
If you have a unique hook, make
it felt throughout the episode.

1035
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:11,720
Meaning the dad and then end on
an impact.

1036
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:16,520
Keep the call to action simple.
So this episode is really a

1037
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:19,240
great reminder that strong
podcasts aren't about

1038
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,920
perfection, they're about
connection.

1039
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,160
And when the connection is
already there, the work is about

1040
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,960
clarifying and amplifying, not
reinventing it.

1041
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,480
So we're going to do this again
tomorrow, not another

1042
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,320
evaluation, but we're going to
all join together again to

1043
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,240
tomorrow, talk more things,
podcasting, and of course,

1044
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,760
celebrate our wins from this
past week.

1045
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,920
So come join us tomorrow.
Thank you all for a great

1046
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,480
conversation, Rena.
I hope this was helpful.

1047
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:51,400
And until tomorrow, make it a
great day.

1048
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:52,600
Everybody take care.