360 - Taylor Swift Makes Podcast History With 21 Million Views and Counting

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Good morning podcasting Morning
Chat.

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Today is Thursday, August 28th,
2025, and today we're diving

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back into some of the most or
the biggest podcasting news,

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including Taylor Swift's
record-breaking debut on New

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Heights, Spotify's new in app
DMS, and a whole lot more.

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So if you're listening live on
Clubhouse, hit the share button,

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And now give us about 30 seconds
and we'll get things rolling.

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Thanks for being here.
Good morning again, podcasting,

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Morning Chat.
Thanks so much for being here.

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I am your host Mark Ronik, and
currently on stage with me we

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have producer Ashley Feller,
Nick Naulback, Sid Meadows, and

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Dr. Fay.
I was crossing my fingers this

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morning that Jonathan Howard
would also be able to join us.

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Reason being, as I said at the
top of the show, we're going to

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be talking a little bit about
Taylor Swift, her appearance on

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New Heights.
And I know Jonathan has been

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actively covering that
appearance.

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And I know on his own podcast he
talks a little bit about things

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we could learn from that.
And unfortunately, I'm guessing

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Jonathan's not going to show up
this morning.

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He told me last night his
intention was to be here.

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And unfortunately, Jonathan, one
of his two dogs, passed away

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yesterday.
Ryder.

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And I can only imagine.
Well, I mean, I've been through

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it before and I can only imagine
what Jonathan's going through

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right now.
If anybody, if you've got a pet

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in your life, I think you have
some sort of idea.

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It is not easy.
And I don't know that I would

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have made it here this morning
if I were in Jonathan's shoes.

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So wishing Jonathan all the
best.

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And certainly I hope, I hope he
leaves himself plenty of time to

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grieve and just want him to know
that we're all here for Jonathan

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and maybe he'll show up as well.
So we'll dig into that.

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And I wanted to keep going with
the news 'cause we had so many

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stories yesterday and we didn't
get to all of them.

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And I know we started talking a
little bit about Tay Tay, Taylor

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Swift.
And so let's, let's just get to

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as many of these stories as we
can and then talk about as many

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of them as we can together.
So I'm just going to dig right

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in.
Like I've been saying, Taylor

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Swift turns her first podcast
appearance into a global event

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on the New Heights podcast.
This was, if you didn't know

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already, this was her first ever
podcast appearance, not just on

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New Heights, but in general.
She's never done a podcast

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appearance before.
And this in case again, you were

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under a rock, this interview
happened I think exactly 2 weeks

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ago from today.
So she sat down with Travis and

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Jason Kelsey on that hit show
New Heights.

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The episode was not just them
shooting the ass.

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It was a full blown cultural
moment.

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It broke all sorts of records
and we'll talk about those

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records in a second.
Taylor did everything from

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laughing about learning football
from scratch, which and by the

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way, for I did catch most of the
interview and I was very

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impressed for somebody who did
not know a thing about football,

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how much she's learned.
And I mean, yes, of course it

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helps being married to somebody
in the NFL or not married,

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engaged to somebody in the NFL.
And I'm still very impressed.

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She got candid about her
emotional journey, reclaiming

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all the masters of her
recordings of her, I believe, 6

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albums.
See, I learned a lot about

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Taylor and she used the platform
to announce reputation.

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I mean, it's hard not to be.
She is an unbelievable success

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and for good reason.
She knows what she's doing.

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She is not just making music and
people flocking to it.

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It's way more than that.
When we talk a lot about knowing

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your audience, it's sometimes
starts to feel like a broken

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record, both us saying it to you
and I'm sure you hearing us say

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it over and over again, and not
just us.

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I know this is something that
goes on all over the podcasting

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world, but Taylor proves how
successful you can be when you

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really get your audience and
when you deliver to your

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audience.
I guess it's one thing to know

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your audience, it's another
thing to know how to deliver

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what they want and she does it.
One thing I really liked was

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they got into dealing with
criticism, social media, noise,

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the mainstream media, and there
is one line that she had brought

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up that she had said.
She said my name can be in the

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actual headline and it's none of
my business, which I really

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liked it.
It goes back to one of my

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favorite books, the four
agreements and not taking things

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personally.
Allow people to think what they

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want, do what they want as long
as they're not harming you or

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others, but allow them to say
what they want to say.

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It has no, it should shouldn't
have any effect on us, right,

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because it's just an opinion.
They're living in their world

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and we got to look at all the
other people that we are

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serving.
And if you're saying to me,

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well, Mark, I have a small
audience, you still have an

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audience.
And if it's three people and

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focus on those three people, how
do we serve them?

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Because when we start serving
them, delivering what they want,

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things grow.
So like I said, I listened to

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this episode on my road trip
home last week, and I really

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took it as a master class in how
to turn a podcast appearance

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into a global event, despite the
fact that she's Taylor Swift.

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Let me talk a little bit about
some of these record-breaking

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moments. 1.3 million concurrent
viewers.

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In other words, at its peak
during the live stream on August

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13th, the episode was
simultaneously watched by 1.3

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million people on YouTube, which
made that episode the most

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watched podcast on YouTube,
setting a new record for the

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platform.
And as of a day or two ago,

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well, I actually know as of
today, it has 21 million views

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on YouTube.
According to Google, the high

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demand when this was live, it
crashed the system around the

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one hour and 44 minute mark.
The episode also brought a

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dramatic increase to new
listeners to the New Heights

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podcast on platforms like
Spotify, with a 3000% increase

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in new listeners and 2500%
increase in overall streams.

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And I think I read somewhere
that Spotify also said their

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female listenership went up by I
think it was 600,000 new female

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consumers.
I was going to say listeners,

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but I know it's you can view on
there as well.

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Pretty crazy stuff.
I'm curious, has anybody here

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listened to the interview?
Anyone.

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No one guys, this is the I
didn't.

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Listen to the episode, I caught
clips here and there from it.

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I would be really curious, like
those are some massive increase

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in numbers, but I'd be curious
when the dust settles what the

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the actual increase is because a
lot of people are actually like

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they're tuning in because it's
Taylor Swift on the episode.

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I have a hard time believing all
of those people are going to

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continue tuning back into the
episode every episode that they

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drop after that, but I'm
interested to see how many

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people stay.
That's a really good point,

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Nick.
And, you know, and that's

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something that we talk about in
podcasting in general.

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We get a big guest, maybe not as
big as Taylor Swift, but we get

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what we consider a big guest
that we know has a big

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following.
And oftentimes they'll deliver

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that following for that episode.
And then, yeah, then they may

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not show up again.
Go ahead, Dr. What kind of time

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frame would you give it?
Like in a month?

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Is that when you would start
recalculating to see where

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you're at?
Yeah, I would probably give it a

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month and you'd probably
potentially, if there was a

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drop, you'd probably see it from
week to week, right?

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Like if this week was your big
interview with your big guest,

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next week might tell the story
pretty dramatically, depending

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on how much, how many people
they delivered for that episode

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that they appeared on.
So, yeah, I mean, I would

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probably give it a month or so
just to see what happens

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because, you know, more data
helps tell a tell the picture,

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paint the picture a little bit
better.

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But yeah, I am shocked that, you
know, listen, I would normally

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under other circumstances, I
would normally maybe not jump

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and listen to that interview
just because again, I'm not a

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Swifty and it's nothing against
Taylor Swift.

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It's just she is not a draw for
me per SE.

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But when it comes to making
waves in the podcasting world, I

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feel like as podcasters, it's
almost an obligation for us to

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go listen because of the impact
that it's had on the industry.

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This will make an impact on the
podcasting industry, much like

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when Serial first came out and
really put podcasting on the

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map.
Much like when the presidential

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election was going on this past
one and how the candidates went

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on different podcasts and what
an impact that made.

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This is a big deal.
Yeah, we'll look to this as like

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one of those landmark things and
you'll hear.

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So, you know, it's like when,
you know, Taylor Swift went on

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the podcast, it's, you know,
it's one of those things that we

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will hear about for a long time.
Absolutely.

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I guess then what I may want to
do is wait for Jonathan to

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return to get more into some of
the things that we can learn

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from this, specifically with
storytelling.

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I know Jonathan just did an
episode on his podcast breaking

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down this whole thing, his
podcast, by the way, Story Lab,

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breaking down really what we can
learn from storytelling.

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And Taylor Swift and I got to
tell you, she did it.

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I mean, they did this whole
thing brilliantly because at

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first it did feel like more or
less a casual conversation

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between the three of them, and
it was really cool.

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Basically Jason, the brother of
Travis.

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Jason interviewed Taylor and for
the most part, Taylor and

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Travis.
Travis was really answering

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questions more than asking them.
Do we know who sponsors who

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their sponsors are because they
must be jumping for?

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Drilling.
Oh, God, yeah, Yeah.

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And I don't know.
And I wonder if this episode I

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have to go and look, 'cause I
didn't hear any sponsors, but

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this apparently this was an
early return for to the new

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season of New Heights.
They were actually going to come

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out, I think in a week or two
with their first episode of

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their new season.
So I think this was kind of

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quickly orchestrated.
Last minute, yeah.

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She did a great job of welcoming
the audience in sharing stories

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that her audience hadn't seen or
heard before.

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And I think that's a big one
because if I know a lot of us as

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podcast hosts go and guest on
other shows to help promote our

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show or business, etcetera.
And I think the the challenge is

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that we have to keep things
fresh, right?

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Like if I'm going from show to
show, a lot of times I'm getting

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the same questions because, you
know, people are interviewing me

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about podcasting, right?
And so I'm getting a lot of the

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same questions.
The key for me when I feel like

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I've done a good interview is
that I've shared something

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different than the last
interview I did.

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And although Taylor Swift, this
was her first podcast interview,

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we know she's done plenty of
interviews and she was sharing

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some very personal stories that
I know publicly.

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She has said she normally keeps
those close to the vest, but she

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unloaded.
I mean, she was talking about

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things like her father's surgery
when he was sick.

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And I mean, she was really
giving the audience, I think,

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what they wanted.
So I think that's one lesson to

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learn is to try to keep things
fresh.

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Maybe a part of the lesson here
is don't share everything on the

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first episode that you go guest
on, right?

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Save some stories for future
appearances.

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Other than that, I think we're
going to wait and maybe we'll

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dedicate a whole show to it.
First, let me check in with

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Billy, who's joined us on stage,
see if he wants to add anything

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to this.
Go ahead, Billy.

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Good morning.
Good morning.

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It's good to see everybody.
I watched that whole interview.

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Of course I watched their show
and not all the time, but more

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than not.
And I didn't even know that she

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was going to be on there.
Didn't watch the live, but watch

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the replay.
And but I just think it's

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different, you know, it's like
if you see her do an interview

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on like, I don't know, NBC, it
doesn't have that much time.

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So this is probably the most for
the longest, most intimate

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00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,720
interview maybe that she's ever
done, I guess being a publicly

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00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,320
or whatever.
And so I think that brings in a

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00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,120
whole another thing to the
situation.

230
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,040
It's not like I'm talking to
this person I've never met or

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I've only been on a Zoom call
one or two times.

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It's like these people are like
my family, I've been hanging out

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00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,640
with them for two years, been
going to ball games and watching

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00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,920
Jason, you know, so they had
like all this.

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00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,480
There's like a lot of back
stories, lot of inside jokes, a

236
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lot of things that camaraderie
that people have.

237
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,200
You know, you listen all these
comedians podcasts, they're on

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the road together all the time.
They're they're seeing each

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00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,360
other.
They share a lot of, you know,

240
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,920
things in common.
And I think it's what we saw.

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00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,600
We just saw the human side of,
you know, Taylor Swift and being

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00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,560
comfortable with these dudes.
There's one of them and then,

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00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,120
you know, loves the other one.
I'm sure like family so I'm

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00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,440
text.
You.

245
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,440
Know that would not happen on
any other podcast even if that

246
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,920
wouldn't have been her quote UN
quote first podcast interview.

247
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,080
I don't think anyone else could
have gotten what they got on

248
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:09,080
that show a. 100% that speaks a
lot to the chemistry between you

249
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,920
and your guest.
And certainly you're not going

250
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,960
to, in most cases, as far as I'm
concerned, not going to be able

251
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,040
to create the same kind of
chemistry as to now engaged

252
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,960
people and the brother.
You're not going to create that

253
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,280
kind of chemistry.
And I think, you know, it does

254
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:31,120
speak to pre interviews and
creating some chemistry before

255
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,800
you get on the show.
But yeah, Billy, to your point,

256
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,920
that's one of the things that
made it so special is that they

257
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,520
were very relaxed, very
comfortable, and all willing to

258
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,560
open up and share stories.
How stressed do you think her PR

259
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,800
team was?
The fact that that episode was

260
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,880
live for I don't know how long
it went over an hour, 2 hours?

261
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,200
Like you figure most interviews
that she does for something like

262
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,280
an NBC or whatever like just
news segments are probably

263
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,280
heavily curated and this was
just a free for all.

264
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,440
Like she could have said
anything and it could have been

265
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,000
polarizing for her community.
Kind of impresses me actually.

266
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,880
I agree with you it's it is
impressive and my impression

267
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:25,040
being a new Swifty Dr. my my
first impression is that she

268
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,200
runs the show.
I mean, I think her PR team

269
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,080
probably, and her whole team is
probably very used to her just

270
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:37,000
calling the shots and having to
roll with how she does things.

271
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She that was definitely
something I learned about her is

272
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,720
how much control she has over
everything.

273
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,520
And I think that's why it was so
important to her, that whole

274
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,200
story of her getting back the
rights, owning her music that

275
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,880
she wrote over the course of her
the first six albums.

276
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,080
She was still very calculated.
I mean, she was a pretty savvy

277
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,560
person.
So she was, even though she was

278
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,680
telling those stories, she's
very calculated.

279
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,360
I would like to hear the stories
that we didn't hear.

280
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,920
It would be fun Yeah, me too and
for example, one story we didn't

281
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,600
hear is the engagement.
And yes you might be saying to

282
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,960
be but Mark, they just announced
their engagement yesterday so

283
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,480
why would they have announced it
on the show 2 weeks ago Well, I

284
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,840
heard some news that the that
her I think it came from her

285
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,360
father or maybe Travis.
No, Sir.

286
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:31,400
Travis Kelsey's father, Pardon
me.

287
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,920
This story was that he got a
phone call from them telling him

288
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,120
about their engagement on August
10th.

289
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,680
So they were keeping this quiet
and I guess they didn't want to

290
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,920
make the announcement on the
show and they waited to post it

291
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,840
publicly yesterday on Instagram,
which I think by the way, that

292
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,680
one, that post of Taylor Swift's
of announcing their engagement,

293
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,440
that one I believe also broke
records.

294
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,800
I looked last night and that
announcement alone had, I

295
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,200
believe, 31 million.
Let me see.

296
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:12,400
No, now it's up to almost 33
million likes alone. 33 million

297
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,720
likes.
Which also speaks to the fact

298
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,320
that you just said, hold back
some of your stories, wait for,

299
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,000
you know, wait for the right
moment to to drop them.

300
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,480
I agree with you.
That's a really good strategy

301
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,120
and I wonder how it would have
worked or if it would have

302
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,640
mattered in their case.
But I wonder how it would have

303
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,320
worked if they did the
engagement announcement first

304
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,720
and then she did the appearance.
I almost feel like that would

305
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,720
have broken more records.
It would have been a bigger

306
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,960
record-breaking moment because
then people would want to tune

307
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,800
in to hear them talk to Cher
about the engagement.

308
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,200
So maybe the strategy there was
that they didn't want to

309
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:53,400
distract.
I don't know.

310
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,000
I think a big part of it though,
was the announcement of her

311
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,840
album, and I think the
engagement would have distracted

312
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,560
from that, which I think
wouldn't have been fair to them

313
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,640
as an engaged couple now.
And I feel like it would have

314
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,600
taken away from something that
should have been special for one

315
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,600
reason and ruined something
special.

316
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,640
That was also happy.
Yeah, and.

317
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,880
I I think again it was a
calculated move.

318
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,800
Yeah, that's a great point.
Thank you for calling it out,

319
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,840
Nick, because, yeah, that it's
another lesson for us as

320
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,600
creators.
You don't want to drop too many

321
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,000
big announcements on in one
piece of content, whether it's a

322
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:40,600
podcast or otherwise, because it
does dilute those announcements.

323
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,880
If you're throwing out this big
announcement, that big

324
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,480
announcement, they get diluted
again.

325
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,360
Calculated strategy that she
decided.

326
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,800
That's where I'll announce the
album and I'm not going to

327
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,360
announce the engagement as well.
You know, I'm thinking out loud.

328
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:04,200
And I still think had they done
it the other way, it would have

329
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,720
been worked.
But look, Taylor Swift is a

330
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,800
genius.
So I'm not going to question

331
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,400
Taylor Swift and and that
strategy and I do think it was

332
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,120
very calculated.
Matt Bliss is on stage.

333
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:16,880
Matt, did you want to add to any
of this?

334
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,400
Sorry, just finishing a bite.
Sorry about that, Matt.

335
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,680
The important note that I think
and look, I'm going to be

336
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,280
Deborah Downer here.
I'm going to be the one looking

337
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,480
at this and going, no, that's
not right.

338
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,880
This is right, but that's.
What we found on you for That's

339
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:36,480
right.
Good stuff.

340
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,160
Stage is set, let's go.
So celebrity podcasts, people

341
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:47,840
who control a statistically
large amount of media attention,

342
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,680
I think means that whatever we
take away from Taylor Swift

343
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,960
literally doing anything.
Like I remember the talk about

344
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:03,920
her coming to do a gig in Dublin
and Dublin literally

345
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:09,040
experiencing a low Richter scale
earthquake because the stadium,

346
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,600
she was having everybody jump up
and down in the stadium.

347
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,040
You say literally did really
like that really happened?

348
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:18,520
Yes.
Wow.

349
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,320
OK, Yeah.
But literally.

350
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,360
I mean, literally.
Yeah, Like, really like.

351
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,920
Like how we just throw that
around all the time, Yeah.

352
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,600
The literal impact of her
presence in a single place

353
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,320
created a seismic event.
Yeah, it happens everywhere.

354
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,480
And there's a reason that at the
very end of the last episode

355
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,720
yesterday, I mentioned the
astronomer CEO at the Coldplay

356
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:47,440
concert, because that was jumped
on as a big media opportunity

357
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,640
for everybody to share their
whatever revelation they have as

358
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,120
a result of someone potentially
cheating on his wife being

359
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:58,560
caught at a concert and all of
the threads being unraveled

360
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,560
there.
Here we have everybody talking

361
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,280
about Taylor Swift's impact on
the podcast industry,

362
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,360
potentially happening around the
same time as a bunch of people

363
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:12,920
with jobs in podcasting get
redistributed in one of the

364
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,440
biggest companies on the planet.
I think of this and wonder what

365
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,840
to take away from it.
And I think of it in the same

366
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,280
way as I think of Steven
Bartlett on Diary of his CEO,

367
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,440
like millions of dollars a year,
millions of views a year.

368
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,920
It's very easy when one aspect
of what's required for what

369
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,320
would otherwise be described as
success for something like this,

370
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,320
you have an infinite supply of.
Stephen Bartlett was a extremely

371
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,040
successful multi exit
entrepreneur before he got to

372
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:46,040
the stage his podcast is AT.
And when you've got an infinite

373
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,240
pool of money, you can have a
team of 70 people helping you

374
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,480
refine the details of your
podcast.

375
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:58,520
Taylor Swift has fan podcasts,
forum threads, news stories come

376
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,040
out from Ticketek and
Ticketmaster every time she runs

377
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,000
a concert because everybody
can't get tickets or the

378
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,720
threshold of the Internet can't
sustain itself under the weight

379
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,960
of her presence.
That kind of presence for a

380
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:18,320
podcast is massive and we have
to think about what the overall

381
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,280
impact of that would be for what
is it new heights for the Kelsey

382
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,440
brothers on this podcast?
Are they going to see similar to

383
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:31,720
the Samsung TV glitch blip that
we all saw a few years ago when

384
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,840
it counted as a play when
Samsung televisions would

385
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,400
preview the podcast on their
distribution service receiving

386
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,200
the RSS feed?
We all wonder, oh man, I've made

387
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,680
it.
And then we realize everyone

388
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,720
else has made it and it has very
little impact.

389
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,040
Or maybe iOS 17 decides to
switch off autoplay or auto

390
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,120
download for all podcasts for
users, and we realized the

391
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:53,920
downloads didn't mean as much as
we thought.

392
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,360
All this is to say that I think
we need to think about how this

393
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:03,560
came about and the result of it
with more than just a few grains

394
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,840
of salt, just to realize that
celebrities have a different

395
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,240
approach to it.
And there's absolutely a reason

396
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:14,760
why Alexandfilippo puts his
report together on Podmatch and

397
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,480
tries to extract the data that
is not indie, that is not from

398
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,720
podcasts that aren't celebrity,
to separate them so that they're

399
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,960
not skewed.
Because it already has a problem

400
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:33,920
with the top 1% being so far
away from the rest of the

401
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,680
population and podcasting being
an accessible platform to be

402
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,640
sustained by all.
I'll be doing an episode on it

403
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,120
at some point in the future.
But the idea that people come in

404
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:48,880
wanting to be Stephen Bartlett's
and Joe Rogan's, they have such

405
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,160
a long way to go, but they make
it look so easy.

406
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,000
It's the same with Taylor Swift.
Like Mark, if you were getting

407
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:00,880
engaged next week, or if you
were, you know, you, you got a

408
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:05,960
week long set of experiences and
learnings and revelations and

409
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,480
you wanted to go on a marketing
campaign for this podcast.

410
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,200
Would you slowly tell little
bits of that week long

411
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,600
transformative journey and save
pieces for other podcasts to

412
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:23,560
create a like an ongoing sort of
narrative through all these

413
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,720
podcast shows?
Maybe not.

414
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,880
Maybe not.
I mean, everybody's a little bit

415
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,480
different.
Yeah, specifically if it were

416
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,600
like an engagement for me, no, I
probably wouldn't use that as a

417
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,640
strategy to promote my podcast,
even even sprinkling it, you

418
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,120
know, over the course of a week,
like you were saying, I don't

419
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:46,200
know that I would do that.
But if I had a big announcement

420
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,080
that was very relatable to for
to to my audience of interest to

421
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,240
them, I might follow a strategy
similar is.

422
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:55,760
Is that fair to say?
Does that make sense?

423
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:58,760
Yeah, absolutely.
I just shook another mouthful of

424
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,080
Apple.
There's somewhere in the middle

425
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,880
that works for a strategy for.
Sorry for whoever's editing this

426
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,760
is.
Sorry, Ashley.

427
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,000
For whoever's taking an approach
like this, like a media campaign

428
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,360
to slowly distribute things
across the course of whatever

429
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,640
they're doing.
Like you can imagine a Brené

430
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,720
Brown probably wanting to do
something like that.

431
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,320
You know, someone with, I don't
even know.

432
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,720
I can't pretend that I can
backseat PR campaign people.

433
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,880
I don't have that experience.
But do you know what I mean?

434
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,000
Like that we just got to
overcorrect all this LinkedIn

435
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,520
stuff.
We see how, you know, it

436
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,000
changes, changed podcasting.
It legitimizes podcasting as a

437
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,760
platform because Taylor Swift
was on it, legitimized it for

438
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,960
about a week, and then they got
engaged and it gives you a

439
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,360
little spike again.
I'm sure they spoke to their

440
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,000
media teams about when to
release that.

441
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,160
Yeah.
Yeah, It's just, you know, we

442
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,440
have to take the salt.
We all need salt.

443
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,440
It's electrolytes, keeps us
hydrated.

444
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,600
Salt's important.
So, so then I appreciate that.

445
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,480
Don't take another bite yet.
This is more of an anomaly.

446
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,760
This isn't anything or this
doesn't have much to provide us

447
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,280
as far as the learning moments
as far as impact on the

448
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,800
industry.
It and if I am accurate with

449
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:21,400
that summary, if success leaves
clues, do we want to learn more

450
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:28,240
from a Taylor Swift and her rise
to fame as opposed to learning

451
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,240
more from the success of this
particular guest appearance?

452
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,680
This is the part where that you
can't put in a LinkedIn post and

453
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,160
say, follow this growth hack to
be the next big Taylor Swift.

454
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,040
A lot of people who get to the
stage they are, and this is

455
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,640
something that's in podcasting
too, is that it takes a lot of

456
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,680
time.
It takes time.

457
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,360
It takes takes the right set of
circumstances to come about and

458
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,680
every circumstance is different.
We can't always infer where they

459
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,040
are now based on the journey
they took.

460
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,560
I would urge everyone who's
thinking about what the what

461
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,680
this means for podcasting going
forward and the things that they

462
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,760
can take away straight away for
this to be applicable to their

463
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,880
own situation to take it one
step further.

464
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,240
Just bring it to that higher
level again and say, if in five

465
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,920
years I was going to be Taylor
Swift levels of fame in

466
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,360
podcasting, what does that look
like?

467
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,040
How did Taylor get to where she
is now?

468
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,720
How does that equate to my
journey?

469
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,600
And if it doesn't, what are the
steps that I need to take to be

470
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,040
able to get there?
And then who's the Kelsey

471
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,480
Brothers for me?
Do I get engaged to someone?

472
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,840
Do I make a Ryan Reynolds fan
cast, Become his best friend

473
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,760
after five years of doing
reviews of all of his films and

474
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,600
becoming a stakeholder in a
Welsh football club and then end

475
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,880
up where you want to be?
Reflection is important.

476
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,520
Realizing your own journey and
where it's going to go is

477
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,800
important.
I think, again, the astronomer

478
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,160
CEO thing, I think the memory is
too short and people don't see

479
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,920
far enough into the future to be
able to.

480
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,320
I'm not giving people enough
credit here, but you know what

481
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,080
I'm saying?
Like, think about the questions

482
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,960
that could take you to your
Taylor Swift moment and plan out

483
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,640
that journey.
Set small goals for yourself and

484
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,680
then see how it all lines up.
I wouldn't say go on your

485
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,800
boyfriend's podcast, see if that
does the job.

486
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,360
And then you know if when you
don't pull your audience back

487
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,520
and forth, reflection, think
forward, plan for a long road

488
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,280
and reflect on the lessons from
Taylor from more than a surface

489
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,760
level and apply them to yourself
individually.

490
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,520
By the way, no one can do this
for you.

491
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,200
It's important for you to
understand your own experience

492
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,280
and then apply those lessons
yourself.

493
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,960
Thank you, Matt.
I appreciate you breaking that

494
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,840
down.
And I think that there's kind of

495
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,480
a, well, look, I don't think we
are on separate sides of the

496
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,880
coin because I think we've said
some things that are the same.

497
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,600
And I still feel, and I think
we've proven earlier, there are

498
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,720
some things we can learn from
the approach, from the

499
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,600
appearance itself.
There are some strategies we

500
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,040
could learn from.
And I think we pointed out a few

501
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,080
already this morning.
But I do completely track with

502
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,760
you that, you know, we have to
take it somewhat with a grain of

503
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,720
salt too, because we are talking
about probably the most popular

504
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,080
pop culture figure on Earth
currently, if not ever.

505
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,400
We got to keep it in
perspective.

506
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,720
Let me go to Nick because I know
Nick's been waiting and we also

507
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,640
have Renee on stage and I'm
anxious to hear what Renee has

508
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,280
to say as well.
So let me check in with Nick.

509
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,320
I have two quick points that
hearing Matthew talk kind of got

510
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,160
me thinking a little bit.
One, that that slow drip of

511
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:02,040
content or slow drip of
information strategy, I do feel

512
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,760
plays really well into her hand
because of the fact that people

513
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,080
are watching her every.
If you were to use the same

514
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:17,200
strategy and share key pieces of
information relevant to you and

515
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,240
what you're doing, and you drip
that across several weeks,

516
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,680
there's going to be a good chunk
of people listening that are

517
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,720
going to miss huge pieces of
information that you shared two

518
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,920
weeks ago and are not sharing
this week or vice versa.

519
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,000
You know what I mean?
If people aren't going to be

520
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,400
following you everywhere you go
and be like, Oh my gosh, did you

521
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,960
see Mark just came out with
another.

522
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,600
He just appeared on another
episode.

523
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:43,840
We have to go listen to it right
now.

524
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,840
She has that factor that it
doesn't matter what she does,

525
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,600
people are going to tune in,
they're going to follow her,

526
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,360
they're going to find her.
They're going to do whatever

527
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,200
they can to hear what she has to
say.

528
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,360
I think that that plays into
that strategy really well now.

529
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,360
No, I lost the other.
Point.

530
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,000
That I wanted to make.
Do you want us to come back to

531
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,360
you?
Yeah, yeah.

532
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:05,960
Come back to.
Me.

533
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,440
OK, Thank you, Nick.
Let me go to Renee.

534
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,040
Renee, good morning.
What did you want to add to this

535
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,440
conversation?
Just wanted to add, as a wedding

536
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,920
professional for the last 36
years, we own her now just so

537
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,400
everybody knows she's ours.
What do you mean?

538
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:31,120
She's US royalty, right?
And when a royal wedding happens

539
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,720
over in United Kingdom, the
wedding world owns that wedding

540
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,760
and everything about it.
Trends are going to be created.

541
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,120
The rest of our destiny for
planning weddings is being

542
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,360
shaped by this wedding in no way
that we've ever seen it before.

543
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,400
So where if she comes with a
collar?

544
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,840
If she comes with a turtleneck
long sleeved Lacey overlay over

545
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,080
her dress, everybody's going to
do that.

546
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,880
She is going to inspire all the
looks that are going to trend to

547
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,240
that.
If she goes strapless, then

548
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,800
strapless will come back.
Everything is going to change

549
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,760
with the dress with the way
everything to the all the

550
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,080
details that can be found about
the ceremony and the reception

551
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,800
will all lead us into the
future.

552
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,679
So to hack the system,
everybody's going to want that

553
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,520
has podcasts are going to want
to be putting Taylor Swift into

554
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,280
their keywords and be talking
about it somehow.

555
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,920
As soon as that happened, our
destinies, everybody's on hold.

556
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,920
What am I ordering?
Like if you were going to be

557
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,840
ordering, if you were in the
rental business and you rented

558
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,040
items like chargers and you were
just going to place an order,

559
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,639
you might not be placing that
order now because you don't know

560
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:43,960
if you've chosen the way
Taylor's choosing.

561
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:48,080
So you're not going to stock up
on things until you know what

562
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,239
direction Taylor's going.
And we might not get one slip of

563
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,400
anything until the wedding
happens.

564
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,320
So that's just everybody just
talking about Taylor.

565
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,320
Prognostic.
What's that word?

566
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:00,600
I can't even think of it right
now.

567
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:03,200
Prognostic.
Thank you.

568
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,840
That word, that word insert, you
know, wondering what's going on

569
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,760
and and wondering what's going
to happen.

570
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,240
So yeah, everybody's going to be
adding it to their podcast

571
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:14,760
discussions if they haven't
already.

572
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,280
It's going to pop up all over
there.

573
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,200
Taylor's wedding, you know,
wondering what's going on and

574
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,400
saying and if anything slips,
that will just give us so much

575
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,040
more fuel to talk about and
everybody will talk about it.

576
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,680
But yeah, we, she's ours now.
The wedding industry, we get to

577
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,600
keep her.
And so that's how it's going to

578
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,760
be in the podcast world.
I am very grateful and

579
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,800
appreciative that you're on
stage, Renee, because of what

580
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,920
you do and because you were able
to kind of make that comparison

581
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,240
as far as just the kind of
impact that she has.

582
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:51,840
We're sitting here talking about
podcasting and yeah, I can see

583
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,160
that impact that will make on
the wedding industry as well.

584
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,320
Nick, do you remember what you
were going to say?

585
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,040
Yes, Renee helped bring it back.
Nice.

586
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,120
So thank you, Renee.
Also trying to pay attention and

587
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:11,360
drive strategy out of the New
Heights podcast episode and the

588
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,120
records they broke and how can
we emulate that into our own

589
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:16,800
show?
I don't think that's the right

590
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,600
way to look at it.
I think as independent

591
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:25,120
podcasters, which I'm assuming a
less less than audience than

592
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,080
Taylor Swift has.
I'm not saying that.

593
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,440
I'm just saying assuming that I
think we have to look at what

594
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,280
other shows are seeing success
as a result.

595
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,520
But how are they capitalizing on
this massive event and building

596
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,160
a strategy around that?
Like we need to be watching

597
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,960
outside and see what podcasters
like.

598
00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:48,240
I'm thinking of Jonathan's
episode where he kind of breaks

599
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:52,240
down the Taylor Swift stuff and
our other podcasters relating

600
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,640
that into their content.
Kind of like Renee said, using

601
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,280
Taylor Swift in the the SEO
keywords.

602
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,720
What strategies are they
deploying into their shows to

603
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:05,480
take advantage of the situation?
I think that is more what we as

604
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,640
independent podcasters need to
be paying attention to.

605
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:12,400
That makes a ton of sense.
Go ahead, Dr. Number one, as

606
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,960
Renee was talking, I wanted to
say, Can you imagine who gets

607
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,480
the television rights and how
much they have to pay for those,

608
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,440
the rights to televise that
wedding?

609
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,960
They're not going to televise
it, no way, because Taylor Swift

610
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,560
is so private.
Personally.

611
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,960
Normally.
I bet you they're going to have

612
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,600
a tiny little ceremony with just
family but then they're going to

613
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,840
have a big Hoo.
Hah that's what I'm thinking.

614
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,280
But you know what in in the
comments Dave Campbell says was

615
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,720
the New Heights audience the
best target audience for this

616
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:50,240
appearance?
Or would Kylie Kelsey's show be

617
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,000
like more interested audience in
all things Taylor?

618
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:58,400
An AB test between two shows
with her on them would be an

619
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,320
interesting comparison.
I absolutely agree.

620
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:07,520
That is a great comment Dave,
and clearly it worked pretty

621
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,520
well-being that it actually
broke records.

622
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:15,360
But yes, as far as the long term
goes, it could have been more

623
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,080
beneficial to.
I forgot her name again.

624
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,480
The Kelsey.
Kelsey So what is her show

625
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,400
about?
Is it like everything girly?

626
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:30,880
Because if it is, I can see in
my head, Taylor being on that

627
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,280
show talking about the
arrangements for the wedding.

628
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,240
You know, what are you going to
do for the dress?

629
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:37,680
What are you going to do for the
flowers?

630
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:44,120
And using that as the AB test.
But I don't know Kylie's,

631
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,280
Kylie's show.
So I don't know what it what

632
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,480
it's about.
I don't either, and I believe

633
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,920
her target audience does skew a
little more female than new

634
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,800
Heights.
Maybe this is part of their

635
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,360
strategy.
Maybe that will be and and maybe

636
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,080
they get more into the wedding
details.

637
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:10,160
I think New Heights has more of
the right audience for a Taylor

638
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,960
Swift appearance then we might
be giving them credit for.

639
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:19,000
Because we all here know this is
bit that the Taylor and Travis

640
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,920
thing has been a thing now for a
couple of years.

641
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:26,960
And much like the Kansas City
Chiefs has brought in a whole

642
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,080
new audience of young girls
because of Taylor Swift and

643
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,480
Travis's relationship, I think
the same has happened with New

644
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,040
Heights as well.
They've managed to capture some

645
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,360
of Taylor's audience regularly.
Like I think that those that her

646
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,560
fans do show up.
And let's be clear, her fans

647
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,720
aren't obviously just little
girls, right?

648
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:54,400
The moms, the dads, there are
lots of people of all ages and

649
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,760
all genders and gender
identities.

650
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,160
Can I ask a stupid?
Question do both players play on

651
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,120
the same team?
Do both brothers?

652
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,560
They did not.
They did not.

653
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,000
In in fact the in the Super
Bowl.

654
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,320
Oh, is 11 not playing now?
One retired.

655
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,760
Yep.
Jason retired and he was on the

656
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,840
Eagles and Travis Kelce on the
Chiefs and they actually played

657
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,400
against each other in a Super
Bowl recently.

658
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaking of.
Football Did anybody?

659
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,760
See the.
Meme that's going around showing

660
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:31,200
the close up of her ring and it
said, did you see the details of

661
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,440
this ring?
And then you go close up on it

662
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,320
and really small print it says.
And to think the Eagles were up

663
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:42,240
40 to 6 in the Super Bowl.
As if he engraved that on the.

664
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:46,480
Ring.
Hilarious.

665
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,240
I have not seen that meme, but
now I'm probably it'll be

666
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:52,280
popping up left and right now
that you say it.

667
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,680
All right, well listen, we have
about 15 minutes left and I know

668
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,520
we were going to cover a lot of
other news.

669
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,120
I want to see though we've spent
45 minutes or so talking about

670
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:04,880
Taylor Swift.
It feels weird to just

671
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,480
completely shift gears.
Does anyone else want to add

672
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,600
anything to this part of the
conversation as far as Taylor

673
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,200
Swift's record-breaking
appearance?

674
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,240
OK, well, go ahead, dear.
Well, so OK.

675
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,920
Janae says we keep talking about
what they did right now, but

676
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:26,600
what about looking at the larger
strategy on how they got here in

677
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,440
the 1st place?
Yeah.

678
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,800
And yeah.
And Nick says I think that's a

679
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,480
massive part of her whole
strategy.

680
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:40,200
Her fans can go crazy on
theories and stories that only

681
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,600
they themselves have made-up.
So that's true, too.

682
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:45,200
Yeah.
And that's.

683
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,840
Something I was saying too with
when Matt was sharing.

684
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,320
And yet that maybe the strategy
is, is if we see something super

685
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,200
successful, yeah, we want to
learn about that appearance or

686
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,160
that thing first and how why was
it successful?

687
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,400
What can we learn from it?
But I think then the the bigger

688
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,120
strategy for a lot of us
independent creators is to learn

689
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,240
more about these people and
their their rise to fame.

690
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:15,080
Go ahead, Renee, to answer
Janae's.

691
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:20,000
Question I can speak about
Taylor Swift is let's let's just

692
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,800
break it down to how simple it
was.

693
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,280
How did we first all hear about
Taylor Swift?

694
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,960
Those of us that are older is
that people were making fun of

695
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,920
her singing about breakups, but
when she was singing about all

696
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,800
her breakups and calling guys
out for what they did, she made

697
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,080
herself relatable to everybody
else that had a breakup, which

698
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:45,000
is the entire every single
female probably that was of her

699
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,320
age group that she was trying to
attract and even older older

700
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,560
young ladies at that time.
And so how did she do it, to

701
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,320
answer Janae's question, is that
she had to stand out.

702
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,480
If she just sang about all the
other bubble gum songs that

703
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,800
everybody else did, she would
have just been one of them.

704
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,880
But she did something that she
felt led to do, or it was

705
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,400
calculated.
No one knows.

706
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,560
But she was singing about
breakups.

707
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,520
Everybody was able to relate to
her.

708
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,720
They latched on to her that this
is one of ours, This Is Us.

709
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:15,040
I mean, she's a Pennsylvania
girl.

710
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,000
She's from somewhere like maybe
30 minutes from me.

711
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,360
And then she moved to Nashville
early on.

712
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:22,920
Well, I was about to say
Nashville is.

713
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,920
Claiming her as well, so yeah,
well, well, so.

714
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,400
So the newspapers around here
say an Ohio boy proposes to a

715
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,120
Pennsylvania girl.
So that's how So different

716
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:35,720
states are claiming them, of
course.

717
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,560
But I think the answer is she
was relatable.

718
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,840
Yes, I just put that.
In the chat, Renee, I just said

719
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,800
because Renee said she's being
authentic, yes.

720
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,840
And relatable.
Yeah.

721
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,040
Did you want to finish?
I didn't mean to interrupt you.

722
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,160
No, no, no.
That.

723
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:53,200
That's fine.
That that puts a cherry on it,

724
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,120
OK.
Yeah.

725
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,800
And that's a huge lesson for all
of us is making ourselves more

726
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,600
relatable.
This is something I think I said

727
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,000
this very week, right?
We can all do shows and

728
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:10,880
regurgitate information,
insights, share our path to

729
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,160
success, etcetera.
And that is going to help some

730
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,840
people.
Absolutely.

731
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,120
I think when you're trying to
grow and build an audience, it's

732
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:24,000
about being relatable and being
able to share not just your

733
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:28,360
successes, your failures.
And I guess loosely defined,

734
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,800
yeah, what Taylor was doing with
her music was her failed.

735
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,120
She was singing about her failed
relationships.

736
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,560
And that is what gets people
going.

737
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,480
That's what gets people feeling
like, oh, yeah, I know how that

738
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:41,880
feels.
I get it.

739
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,000
And then they're they they're
they feel seen and then they

740
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,480
want to continue that feeling
and they'll keep coming back.

741
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,000
Jeff, good morning.
Welcome to the stage.

742
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,400
What did you want to add?
And belated happy birthday to

743
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,680
you.
Thank you Is the wind.

744
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,080
Affecting my sound 'cause I can
I can jump off.

745
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:00,560
No, you sound OK.
It sounds.

746
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,000
OK, so far you're my new
walking.

747
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,000
Thing in the morning which
screws me up on my you and you

748
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,400
and Sid are are.
Virtually walking together in

749
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,600
the mornings.
Why we do the show 1st?

750
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,720
I just want to go on record.
For all music that Taylor Swift

751
00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:16,520
did not invent, writing songs
about breakups?

752
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:16,880
Yeah.
Agreed.

753
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,760
Agreed.
Go to a Chicago concert.

754
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,360
If you want.
And part of my reaction is that

755
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,200
there's really nothing to learn
specifically from the moment

756
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,320
because it's such a phenomenon
that it's I mean, she's like

757
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,880
Beatles level, you know, and
that was 50 years ago The

758
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,480
Beatles.
But I think the one thing that

759
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,000
she has that generates the
numbers didn't matter which

760
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,560
podcast she was on was just her
community.

761
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:49,720
Like 3/4 of my household was
waiting there to watch that live

762
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:52,640
on YouTube.
And it's like, you know, every

763
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,800
my family text goes crazy.
There's other countdown, there's

764
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,720
another countdown.
You know, my kid has bought 2

765
00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:02,600
variances of the same album that
hasn't even come out yet.

766
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,040
So it's like, yeah, but it's at
the Swifties.

767
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,600
It's that community I think that
caused the earthquake that was

768
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,320
mentioned earlier and all that
kind of stuff.

769
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,160
It's that rapid fan base that I
think is just incredible that

770
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,800
she's built up.
That's so you're in the camp of

771
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,720
there's, there's.
Nothing to learn.

772
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,880
I'm not saying there's nothing.
To learn there's stuff on her

773
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,520
whole journey.
It's not like she would discover

774
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,240
it out of nowhere.
I mean, but she took advantage

775
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:33,640
and I think she's super talented
and super great at business and

776
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,120
everything.
You know, my kids have bought 2

777
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,560
versions of every one of her
albums, you know, so I mean

778
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,040
concerts, you know, so I, I
think she's amazing.

779
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,080
So I'm sure from a business
standpoint, there's a lot, I

780
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:46,640
don't think she's saved
podcasts.

781
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,040
There's been a lot more famous
people on podcasts and Taylor

782
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,040
Swift are equally famous, you
know, in the, but you know,

783
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,680
sorry, walking and talking.
I'm not used to doing that.

784
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,760
But I think, I think community
is the thing.

785
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:02,360
Yeah, I think.
Community is the thing.

786
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,680
And I see Matt Bliss in in the
chat says humans love buying

787
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,360
stuff when it gives, when it
gives them the feeling of

788
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,880
community and scarcity.
And yeah, I mean, that's just

789
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:13,240
it.
That kind of speaks to what

790
00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:14,920
you're saying too.
When you when you have a

791
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,600
community, they're going to
support you no matter what,

792
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,800
right?
Especially one like the one that

793
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:28,480
she's built of just rabid fans,
people who just can't get enough

794
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,240
of what she does.
Matt, I'm going to give you the

795
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:33,600
final word because I see you in
the chat.

796
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,920
Is there anything else you want
to add to this out loud for the

797
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,920
the listening audience?
I've finished my Apple.

798
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,040
Good, it was delicious.
Good.

799
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,200
What kind of apple?
Oh, that's a good question, Pink

800
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,840
Lady.
Oh, good, good choice, good

801
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,320
choice.
Big fan, used to be a Golden

802
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,080
Delicious.
But they're hard to come by.

803
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:51,120
Exactly.
Yeah.

804
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,720
But but when I can get them, I
will choose a golden delicious

805
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:56,240
over a pink lady.
Oh, listen.

806
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,800
You, you guys, America, you got
crazy apples.

807
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,720
There's something called the
Cosmic Crisp that I became aware

808
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,640
of.
It's like cosmic something mixed

809
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,600
with a Honey Crisp.
I don't even know.

810
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,480
Anyway, I feel like I need to be
the villain sometimes to balance

811
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,320
these things.
Sounds like some people think a

812
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,840
little bit about Taylor Swift in
the same way.

813
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:20,520
But there is definitely stuff to
take away, and the one thing

814
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,840
that I want to charm in with the
end there is that the

815
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,920
authenticity of her journey so
far is kind of the backwards

816
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,320
step of what most people do.
They feel like they need to

817
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,200
growth, hack their way to the
point where they can be

818
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,440
authentic.
But perhaps the one thing we can

819
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,600
learn for ourselves, not just in
podcasting, but generally, is

820
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,760
that if we are ourselves
authentically most of the way

821
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:46,040
through, perhaps with a bitter
strategy on top, who knows, Then

822
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,920
we're setting ourselves up for
success in however long it takes

823
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,760
for us to get to our Kelsey
Brothers podcast interview.

824
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:54,280
Thank you, Matt.
I'm.

825
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,560
Glad I went to you to to wrap us
up.

826
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,240
That is a great way to wrap up
and it I like the I don't want

827
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,160
to call it full circle moment,
but I like the contrast you you

828
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,320
came in relatively hot about,
you know, the on the other side

829
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,040
of the fence.
And then you shared some some a

830
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,600
different perspective and I
believe the late.

831
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,480
Stage millennials call that
negging.

832
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,040
But I try to make sure that at
least I'm truthful to my to

833
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,640
myself, and I do it for a
reason.

834
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,280
Absolutely.
Yeah, we appreciate you good

835
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,440
message at the end.
Yes, everyone do your thing

836
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:28,960
indeed.
So we didn't get.

837
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,520
To all the news stories I wanted
to get to today and that's fine.

838
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,920
I wasn't sure how long that this
conversation would go and I'm

839
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,520
really glad we took a whole show
to talk it through because like

840
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:44,120
I said at the beginning, this is
a big deal regardless of of the

841
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,760
how and the why.
It's a well, not the why,

842
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,240
because the why is this is a big
deal.

843
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:55,960
She she, she has put podcasting
on the maps again, right?

844
00:49:55,960 --> 00:50:00,560
It like we're she's making a, a
statement for podcasting that it

845
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,000
can be successful.
And yes, of course, it's the

846
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:09,000
Taylor Swift influence that did
that did so much for this.

847
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,920
But it's still something that
puts us on the map.

848
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,240
It's still something that gets
more people interested in

849
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:18,680
podcasting.
I read you those stats earlier.

850
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,200
Spotify sky rocketed in new
listeners.

851
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:29,320
YouTube had its biggest podcast
live stream ever, right?

852
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,200
So more people are getting
exposed to podcasting and that

853
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:37,440
does trickle down.
It's not going to get you twenty

854
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:42,960
30 million views on YouTube, but
little by little these types of

855
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:47,400
events make an impact.
OK, we are back tomorrow and

856
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:48,920
tomorrow I want to talk a little
bit.

857
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:55,240
I got a message from one of my
clients that started guesting on

858
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:58,080
podcasts cause I've been
encouraging them to help them

859
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,200
grow is to be a guest on podcast
and they just started and

860
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:02,840
they're using pod match to do
it.

861
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:09,360
And yesterday he told me that he
did the first appearance at the

862
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,520
end of the show.
He asked about when it would go

863
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:17,280
live, when it would publish, and
he was told not until April,

864
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,560
which blew him away.
But there's more to the story

865
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:28,080
that has to do with a
monetization strategy that might

866
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,480
rub some of you the wrong way.
So we'll talk about it tomorrow

867
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:33,920
on the show.
And then of course, we will

868
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,400
share our wins from this past
week.

869
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:41,400
So bring it tomorrow.
Any success that you've had, big

870
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,680
or small, we don't care the
size, we don't judge the size.

871
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,640
We don't want you to do that
either.

872
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,960
If you got out of bed this week
every day and that's your win,

873
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,840
go for it.
Come share that with us.

874
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,480
If you've launched a podcast, go
for it.

875
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,480
Come share that with us.
We want to share our wins,

876
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,640
celebrate.
And because it's important to

877
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,000
stop and smell the roses, no
matter how big or small you

878
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,000
think that they are.
So until tomorrow, 7:00 AM

879
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,080
Eastern.
Make it a great day everybody,

880
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:11,720
take care.