324 - The Truth About Podcast Ads and Why Listeners Skip

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Good morning Podcasting Morning
Chat.

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Today is Tuesday, June 17th,
2025, and today we're diving

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into the art of podcast ads,
from choosing brands your

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listeners will love, crafting
engaging content, to finding

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that perfect balance between
monetization and listener

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experience.
So if you're listening live on

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Clubhouse, hit the share button,
bottom left hand side of the

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screen and share it.
However, Clubhouse lets you.

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And if you're listening via
podcast, please share this

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episode with a fellow podcaster.
And now give us about 30

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seconds.
We'll get things rolling.

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Thanks for being here.
Good morning again, podcast.

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Good morning chat.
Thank you for being here.

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I am your host Mark Ronick.
And here with me on stage we

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have producer Ashley Feller,
Nick Nalback, Dr. Faye, Sid

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Meadows and Amanda Sharp.
And thank you all for giving me

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the day yesterday.
We are officially on our summer

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schedule, no Mondays, and I very
much appreciated the extra time

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in the morning.
I still got up early, still did

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my morning routine and then got
some stuff done which I normally

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would have had to put off until
well after the show ends.

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So thank you.
It is really helpful and helpful

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to my.
I was going to say to my sanity,

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but that makes it sound very
dramatic, but it does give me a

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little bit of a mental break
that I think I really need this

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summer.
I'm, I'll be honest, I, I'm just

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struggling personally.
I feel like I've got a lot and I

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know I mentioned some of this on
Friday, but I, I think I've just

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bitten off more than I can chew.
And so I'm looking for ways to

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kind of take a breath and
regroup before I really

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genuinely lose my sanity.
But I'm doing, doing, doing OK.

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I can't say I'm great and I'm
much better now, but it is a

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step in the right direction and
I appreciate the time.

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So today I decided what we could
talk about are ad strategies and

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podcast advertising in general.
Some people hate it, other

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people like it just as far as it
being a successful monetization

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strategy, some people don't
believe it is a good strategy.

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But I've got to say, in my
experience of doing this for

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years and years now, I've done
relatively well with ads.

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It's never been the kind of
steady income or a steady

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revenue stream to a point where
I could rely on it regularly,

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but it was a nice revenue stream
that I know I know I could

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effectively implement and
execute and had a lot of success

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doing that in my career.
I haven't done that really with

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the podcasting morning chat yet
and I'm not quite sure why other

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than what I just mentioned to
you earlier.

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I think I've just stretched
myself a bit thin and haven't

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made it a priority to do it.
But I do believe there are ways

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to incorporate ads from other
brands, not just your own ads,

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but incorporate ads that
actually enrich the experience

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for an audience, that actually
is helpful to an audience.

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If you are strategically aligned
with those brands, with those

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products and services, I think
that you can have a lot of

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success with that and your
audience will appreciate it.

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But I want to know how others
feel.

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Do traditional podcast ads still
work or our audiences tuning

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them out completely?
Dr. Go ahead.

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Good morning.
I think if we took a poll of the

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room and asked who here skips
ads against who doesn't skip it?

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Who skips ads?
Give me an emoji.

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So you're saying as listeners,
which one of us or how many of

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us are actually skipping ads
when we hear them on a podcast?

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Right, right.
Well, let's get an emoji.

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A thumbs up will do.
Or a thumbs down.

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Thumbs up.
You you do skip.

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You do skip for a thumbs up.
Yeah.

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Yeah, everybody seems to be
saying yes, they skip.

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And that's the irony of today's
subject is that we're talking

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about optimizing them and being
paid with them by them.

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But yet the majority of the
people, and I think this is a

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good representation of the
population in general, the

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majority of the people will skip
them.

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And every Newsday we talk about
how ads are up and you know,

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this pays the most and blah,
blah, blah.

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To be honest, I do not skip them
because I'm usually doing

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something else while while
listening to podcasts like

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washing dishes or something like
that and my hands are just not

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free in order to skip them.
But so I I listened through

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that.
And I saw Sid also, I think he

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had a thumbs down, meaning he
doesn't skip ads.

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At least I think that's what it
meant.

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Right, Sid?
And I wanted to find out from

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you.
Yeah.

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Tell me a little bit more about
that.

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Do you, Is that an intention or
is that more like Dr. where it's

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just you're too tied up and you
don't have the hands to grab the

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phone and skip?
Morning, everybody.

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I used to skip ads all the time.
Now I don't skip them.

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And I'm not really sure why I
changed that behavior other than

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usually when I'm listening to a
podcast, I am walking, my phone

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is in my back pocket and I don't
really feel like taking it out.

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And though I don't necessarily
remember the name of the

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products or companies that the
people are talking about, it is,

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you know, nice to hear
officially the ones I'm

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listening to, typically the host
is staring about a product that

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he or she uses personally.
And I do like to hear that I

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have written down the name of
some of the products just

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because I want to go and check
them out, right?

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But because my phone's in my
back pocket, I just don't feel

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like taking it out and I'll just
go through it.

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Unless you're Mail Robbins and
the 1st 6 minutes of your

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podcast is nothing but ads and
intros.

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I do skip through a lot of that.
Yeah, and I think that's a great

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point too.
I think if you're front loading

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your podcast with ads, all
you're doing is teaching your

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regular audience how to use the
skip button.

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It's an it's another story if
you're doing either and we'll

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get into it.
I hope we'll have time we'll get

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into host read ads versus
recorded ads or ads read by

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someone other than the host.
There's people are going to

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react differently.
And when we think about

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podcasting and how people
consume podcasts, even if

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they're video podcasts, a lot of
times people are like Dr. said,

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like Sid said, people are doing
other activities.

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And I think maybe that's why
podcast ads are still pretty

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effective.
And they are right.

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You know this from how much
advertisers are spending.

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If you look back in, well, last
year, the podcast ads spend hit

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2.28 billion in 2024, which was
up almost 16% the previous year.

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And it's supposed to get to over
2 1/2 billion by 2026.

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And I think right now they're
predicting, yeah, 2026, two and

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a half billion.
So people are people, meaning

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businesses are spending money on
podcast ads.

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Just to give you a few other,
you know, when we were talking

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about what we were just talking
about here, whether or not

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you're able to to whether you'll
skip or not, 46% of weekly

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listeners say they've purchased
a product after hearing a

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podcast ad.
So they've got to be able to

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hear the ad in order to make the
purchase.

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So that not a lot of not as many
people as we think are skipping.

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88% of listeners have taken
action after hearing a podcast

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ad.
And a couple other things to

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point out here, 86% of heavy
podcast users recall an ad that

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they just heard over the past
week.

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And that's the highest among all
ad supported channels.

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And I could go on and on and on.
The statistics say podcast ads

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not only work, but they work
really well.

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Mark Amanda had her hand.
Up.

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Oh, let's go to Amanda.
Before you do that, for those of

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us that have the update and we
come up with the new strategy to

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raise our hands because we no
longer have the hand raise icon.

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Yeah, that's annoying and I
haven't updated yet, partially

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because I was hearing you guys
all complain behind the scenes

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about it.
Yes, we can, and I will leave it

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to you Sid, while we go to
Amanda.

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If you want to look at the
emoji, since I can't pull up the

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same screen, you can.
At this point, you'll give us

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the emoji of choice for what
hand raising will mean moving

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forward.
Amanda, go for it.

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Good morning.
Good morning.

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Just kind of recapping about
what we were saying, like do we

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skip them or not?
Like I skipped the ones that

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seem to be pre recorded.
But the ones to your point, I

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think of being very effective to
kind of match your statistics,

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at least with me as a consumer,
are the ones where the podcast

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hosts themselves will just read
it during the podcast and just

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talk about it a little bit or
tie it into their podcast and

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make it make sense.
And those are the ones that I

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remember.
Those are ones that maybe I will

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go, oh, this sounds interesting
and go actually seek out the

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product or look into.
I may not buy it, but I feel

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like those captivate my
attention a lot more than just

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some pre recorded, you know,
message that probably gets

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rotated out depending on who
their sponsors are.

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Have you ever bought anything
from a podcast ad?

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You know, I was trying to think
and I don't, I mean, I don't

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have a lot of extra disposable
income, so currently, no.

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But I tell you, if I had a lot
of money, heck yes, I would be.

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I'd be that person who just
keeps buying stuff from QVC, you

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know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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I would be that person if I had
it like.

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You got it.
That's totally new.

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Oh jeez.
Because I don't have all this

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extra money or I choose to put
it into other things that like

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the store and stuff like that.
I think I really would be if I

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wasn't, you know, limited.
OK, that's fair.

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And it's interesting.
I'm glad that we got to hear

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your perspective because look,
Amanda, you're doing this in a

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different way.
Not podcasting, but you're

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promoting your own store and the
products that you're selling in

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your own store on your TikTok
channel.

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Granted, it's not podcasting and
it's still the same ballpark,

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same idea.
And yeah, I mean, you're doing

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it in a very authentic way.
And I think that that is what

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makes a lot of podcast ads work
well when we as host can

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genuinely speak to the product
or service, whether it's our own

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or someone else's, right.
There are plenty of products

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that I would be happy to endorse
because I actually use them and

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like them.
And if I think that my audience

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will too, I'm happy to to do a
host read ad.

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I want to go to real quick to
the chat first.

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I saw Adam say, I think if
podcast ads can be as fun as

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Super Bowl, people would skip
less and listen to ADS.

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I agree with you there.
I think if ads were more

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creatively done on podcasts, I
think more people would listen.

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And I think that really that I
think that goes to the

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equivalent of a Super Bowl ad.
An entertaining ad is a quote UN

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quote host read ad.
And the only reason I'm

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hesitating now to say host read,
even though that is the proper

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terminology.
I say that because I think the

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best ads are when the host is
just speaking from the heart,

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when it's really an endorsement,
right?

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Sure, they should have the key
elements of the ad for that

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advertiser or for themselves if
it's their product.

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Make sure you're hitting the
main points that need to be hit

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to do a proper promotion.
But ultimately, I've seen ads

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most successful when the host or
hosts are just rapping about the

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thing I used to produce and
manage the business of a really

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large podcast, and I'll give
them a plug.

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I used to probably avoid that,
but I won't.

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Anyway, I have no qualms with
them.

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The Mike O'Mara show, this was
my old one of my old radio talk

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show radio heroes.
And one thing that one of many

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things that they do really well
is Mike and his team.

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They'll do 3 or 4.
They do about an hour and a half

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long episode and they do it
daily by the way.

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And what they do is they
probably, last I heard it's been

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a minute.
They do 3 or 4 ads per show.

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And the cool thing is, is that
it's just a part of the show.

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They're they like to goof
around.

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They, they like to talk pop
culture, entertainment, all the

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things.
It's like a kind of like a guy

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talk kind of show.
And they do their ads exactly

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00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:24,920
the way they do a segment of
their show.

225
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,360
It's just them talking about the
product, having fun, laughing,

226
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,720
even sometimes derailing from
the product itself for a minute

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00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,360
because they just went off on a
tangent.

228
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,280
But then coming back to IT,
people stay for that because

229
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,560
it's just, like I said, it's the
fabric of the show.

230
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,280
It's part of the show and it's
really effective.

231
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,160
But you have to make sure that
the advertiser, if it's not your

232
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,360
own product or service, that the
advertisers on board with that

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00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,960
because there are some out there
that really want you to just

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00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,200
stick to the script and that's
it.

235
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,440
And if you don't, then they're
not happy, they don't want to

236
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,720
pay, etcetera.
So you have to make sure you've

237
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,080
got a good partnership or an
understanding, a good

238
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:08,960
understanding of the
partnership.

239
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,280
OK.
Also in the chat, it looks like

240
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:16,840
Sid and Jonathan are conspiring
what emojis to use and have we

241
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,480
figured it out?
Sid, is it the?

242
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,960
Is it the pepper?
Yes, the pepper.

243
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,320
I just did it so you won't see
it, but you'll see the pepper

244
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,240
come up on my face, right, like
you see on Nick.

245
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,560
People that have been updated
will see Peppers around your

246
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,800
face as well.
So that's what Jonathan meant by

247
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,400
throw emoji.
Throw the pepper at Mark.

248
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,800
It comes up on my face.
Is 1 big one in yours as a

249
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,280
little one like Dr. you don't
have the update, right, because

250
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,760
your Peppers didn't come up on
around Mark's head.

251
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,160
So, but can I add a comment
about the ad, the host red ad

252
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:50,840
for?
Yeah, sure.

253
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,600
So David Novak, who's the host
of How Leaders Lead, which is

254
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,560
one of my regular podcasts that
I listen to in the second-half

255
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,760
of his show.
He does a host red ad that I

256
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,640
honestly look forward to now it
It's an ad for his podcast.

257
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,800
And what he's doing is he's
tying the ad to somewhat of the

258
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,440
topic with the guest for the
day.

259
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,720
And he goes, if you're liking
this conversation, then you're

260
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,920
really going to like my
conversation with Mark Ronik and

261
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,760
episode 35.
And then he plays a clip of you

262
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,280
talking from that episode, and
then he adds another comment

263
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,240
about it and then says, go back
to episode #35 and listen in to

264
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,280
this powerful conversation.
So it's very organic.

265
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,680
I look forward to how he's going
to promote an older episode

266
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,840
within his catalog.
And it is just a really, really

267
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,560
great example of how to do an
ad, whether it's for you or for

268
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,640
your podcast or for a product.
Especially the playing of the

269
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,280
clip I think is really good.
Yeah, and not just playing it

270
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,600
right, not just saying, you
know, we'll be right back after

271
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,880
we play this clip.
And you know what I mean?

272
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,840
They're not just playing the
clip and and then moving on.

273
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,960
They're actually talking about
it, which I think is so key.

274
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,839
You know, maybe even it can be a
behind the scenes comment too,

275
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,319
right?
You talk about, hey, this

276
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:16,760
episode from, you know, episode
one O 2 where I had my guest,

277
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,880
Sid Meadows on.
And man, before we started the

278
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,960
show, we had a good laugh about
X, right.

279
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,720
And you're just talk about that.
You're humanizing it even more.

280
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,640
And then, oh, let me play a clip
of from that episode.

281
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,160
You play it, come back.
Yeah.

282
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,320
Go check out episode one O 2
with Sid Meadows.

283
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:33,520
I think you're going to really
love it.

284
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:39,080
That's such A, to me, such a
more effective way of promoting

285
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,000
something, whether it's a clip
or you, whether it's a, your own

286
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,160
episodes or a product or
service.

287
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,400
Finding a way to be more organic
about it, for lack of a better

288
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,520
term, instead of just reading an
ad, doing going through the

289
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,880
motions because an audience
picks up on that.

290
00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:01,000
OK, I think I saw some Peppers
from Jonathan and Nick instead

291
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,160
of the hand raising icon.
So Jonathan, I'm going to come

292
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:05,720
to you first.
Did you want to add anything to

293
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,720
this conversation so far?
I think for me, and I'm one of

294
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,360
those people that shops off of
ads all the time on Instagram

295
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:19,480
and on podcasts, I have issues,
I think, but storytelling at the

296
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,400
very least, if it's not a host
read, if it's there has to be a

297
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,120
story behind it in some way
that's going to grab me and and

298
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,280
attract me to the ad and and get
me to buy.

299
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,720
Like I got to have a story
always.

300
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,680
Agreed.
I think just like everything

301
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,200
else, right?
Everything else we talked about,

302
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,720
storytelling is so critical when
it comes to keeping your

303
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,400
audience's attention and keeping
them coming back for more.

304
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,560
So yeah, that that goes for an
ad as well.

305
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,520
Nick, I saw you had your hand
up.

306
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,080
Go for it.
Good morning.

307
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,920
Good.
Morning, everybody.

308
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,640
I agree with Jonathan.
I think the story like I usually

309
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,440
connect with an ad if the host
is talking about their

310
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,120
experience with something or how
they're actually using it.

311
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,160
But even more than that, if you
can get away with it, like you

312
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,360
said, having your own like your
own ad versus.

313
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:18,000
What?
The sponsor is giving you to me

314
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,120
is so much more effective
because when it's just like a a

315
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,280
boilerplate, clearly they're
just reading from a script.

316
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,520
To me it, it just feels so
impersonal and like they're just

317
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,040
trying to hit a quota and like I
just, that could have been any

318
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:33,880
ad.
Maybe it's relevant to me, maybe

319
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,240
it's not.
Maybe it's a podcast about

320
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,920
business and it's a Blue Apron
commercial and it's like it just

321
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:45,520
doesn't, doesn't fit.
And when it's more I'll say on

322
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,680
the scripted, so to speak, but
more kind of intertwined with

323
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,320
the episode.
Like I, I get the feeling like,

324
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,280
OK, this person actually uses
the stuff they're talking about

325
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,840
it they they worked on a deal,
but it's because it's something

326
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,240
that they use and they actually
think is going to be beneficial.

327
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,840
Not just I took the first
sponsorship deal that came my

328
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,360
way and now I'm going to read
you this ad.

329
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,280
There's a different feeling.
I see what you're saying.

330
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,800
Yeah, this is where also I think
the host bringing the audience

331
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,400
in and sharing the experience of
the, you know, how they landed

332
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,280
the sponsor, what the experience
is like with the sponsor.

333
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,640
Obviously you need to be
careful.

334
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,600
You can't maybe be too
transparent if say you know the

335
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,480
the sponsor, they they've got a
difficult person that you're

336
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,160
working with.
Maybe you don't want to go too

337
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,080
far into that, but sharing the
experience of finding the

338
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,280
sponsors, finding the right
sponsors, that whole behind the

339
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,400
scene experience, all part of
storytelling too.

340
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,800
But yeah, just it makes you more
trustworthy as a host if you're

341
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,360
actually sharing more about you,
your connection with the

342
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:53,680
sponsor, how you landed the
sponsor.

343
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,280
I think all that stuff is
interesting to an audience.

344
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,920
Dan has joined us on stage.
Good morning to you, Dan.

345
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,680
Did you want to add to this?
Good morning.

346
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,520
Yes, I want to say I absolutely
agree with that.

347
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,760
Was it Nick just talked?
It was Nick just talking, right?

348
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,720
Yeah, with what Nick was just
saying.

349
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,440
I listened to a podcast
occasionally called Order of

350
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:21,200
Man, and he talks about Montana
Knife Company, who is clearly a

351
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:26,480
sponsor, but he talks about the
knife he's using or the knife

352
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,520
that he's carrying and the
benefits of that particular

353
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,400
model in their promotion of
Montana Knife Company.

354
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,440
And that he also shares about
that relationship and it's

355
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,680
really well done.
It's those ads I do listen to,

356
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,120
but typically I ignore ads so I
appreciate it.

357
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,920
Yeah, thank you.
Appreciate you sharing that.

358
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,280
It does keep going back to what
we're saying that it that we

359
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,080
sharing the our experiences
making it storytelling, making

360
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,840
it entertaining will keep your
audience listening to those ads.

361
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,440
Absolutely 100%.
DRI know you had some other

362
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,240
notes that you thought would be
important to hit as far as ads

363
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:13,040
go.
Let me see.

364
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,560
You're probably not making
breakfast at this point, right?

365
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:18,440
I am back.
The other thing I wanted to

366
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:24,040
know, I don't really know that
much about programmatic ads and

367
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,040
by the way, I hate the word
programmatic.

368
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,800
So that's just.
Why do you hate the word?

369
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:37,720
It looks funny and I don't like
it, so OK, so give me the pros

370
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,680
and the cons of a programmatic
ad.

371
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,400
Yeah, sure.
So, and by programmatic and

372
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,880
actually now that you say it, I
don't love saying the word

373
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,600
either reading it's OK, but
saying it, I don't like saying

374
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:52,920
it.
I'm with you.

375
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,320
So these are basically the
prerecorded ads that are

376
00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:01,160
inserted in, whether it's a
dynamic ad, meaning it will

377
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,960
automatically play either at the
beginning, middle or end or you

378
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,280
quote UN quote, bake it in where
you're adding it in as part of

379
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,160
the post production process and
it lives in that episode forever

380
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,040
unless you manually go and edit
it out and replace the ad is

381
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,120
that.
And is this available through

382
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:24,840
the your hosting or your
distribution platform that

383
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,120
you've chosen like Libsyn or
Captivate or something like

384
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:29,840
that?
Yeah, there are some.

385
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,520
So the podcast hosting platforms
like Buzz Sprout, even Spotify

386
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:39,440
for podcasters to A, to a
degree, or Spotify for creators,

387
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:44,680
I guess it is now Buzz Sprout,
Megaphone, Libsyn, Spreaker.

388
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:52,840
These are platforms that have a
pool of programmatic ads that if

389
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,840
you're you opt into their
program in most cases, then you

390
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,240
can start inserting those ads
into your podcast a lot of

391
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,720
times.
Well, like Buzz Sprout, what I

392
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,720
really like about Buzz Sprout is
you can easily pick and choose.

393
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,920
So you'll be presented with
potential ads that I guess Buzz

394
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,160
Sprout feels could be a good fit
for you and your show.

395
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,320
But you have that final say
whether or not you you believe

396
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,560
it's a good fit for the show.
Sometimes I've come across it

397
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,160
where it's a good fit, but I
thought that the audio quality

398
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,920
was terrible, so I turned down
the ad right.

399
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,320
So, but ultimately, yes, there
are plenty of platforms that do

400
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,360
that and there are third party
platforms that you can connect

401
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:43,920
with that helps you connect with
other advertisers.

402
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,680
So for example Podcorn they.
Popcorn is the one I would ask

403
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:48,720
about.
Yeah, OK.

404
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,280
They can.
They connect you with brands and

405
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,920
I think it's pretty simple the
way that they their system

406
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,360
works.
You can negotiate the

407
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:01,880
sponsorship terms and rates with
those advertisers and it's good

408
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,880
really for all podcasts of all
different sizes.

409
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,160
It's definitely a popular one.
I'm not surprised you knew that

410
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,800
one.
Advertise Cast is another one.

411
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,040
I think.
Gumball.

412
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,400
I haven't used Gumball, but I've
heard Gumball works well.

413
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,080
It also offers curated brand
partnerships.

414
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,680
It has a really nice platform
from what I'm told, for managing

415
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,200
different ad campaigns and
payments and stuff like that.

416
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,680
Let's see, Billy has joined,
joined us on stage though.

417
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,920
Billy, did you want to add
anything to this or are you just

418
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,040
here for at any point in the
conversation you want you may

419
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,280
want to add on?
Yeah, I just jumped up, man.

420
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,400
I got your tax a little bit late
and I'm just running some

421
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,880
errands.
So always, always love to talk

422
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,080
about sponsorships and ads and
all that fun stuff.

423
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:46,880
Awesome.
Yeah.

424
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,480
I reached out to Billy this
morning before the show because

425
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,840
I figured he would be a great
resource to have here.

426
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,080
So thank you, Billy.
Thanks for making it.

427
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:57,440
Dr. Did you have something else?
Yeah.

428
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:03,120
So let's say I'm on the route.
They offer programmatic ads.

429
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,440
Hate that word.
And would it make sense for me

430
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,440
to even go to popcorn or some of
these other outside companies?

431
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,640
I mean, what does one have over
the other?

432
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,720
Do you know what I'm saying?
Like picking between like one of

433
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:24,200
the three that I just shared.
Yeah, or even your platform.

434
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,800
Even your distribution platform,
Buzz Sprout.

435
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,440
What if I'm on Buzz Sprout?
Why would someone on Buzz Sprout

436
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,560
go to one of the three that you
just mentioned?

437
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,160
Would they?
Because Buzz Sprout.

438
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,960
So an example is Buzz Sprout.
It's not like you have this big

439
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,320
menu of options.
First of all, I think Buzz

440
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:48,040
Sprout is only Buzz Sprout
hosted podcasts, but those are

441
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,200
the only ads that you're that
I've seen come through a Buzz

442
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:57,760
Sprout platform.
So it's other Buzz Sprout hosts

443
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,640
have their ads for their
podcasts and it's almost like a

444
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,600
swap, but you do get paid a
little bit for every ad when it

445
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,840
plays.
So it's not products, it's

446
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:12,160
actual podcasts that are all.
On Buzz Sprouts specifically,

447
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,920
that's the big difference, yeah.
OK.

448
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,240
But whereas you go to something
like Podcorn, there's going to

449
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,440
be a lot of different options of
a lot of different products and

450
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,440
services.
I think Nick's got something.

451
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,280
Let me check in with Nick.
Go for it, Nick.

452
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,960
Yeah, see, those are the ads
that I will 100% skip every

453
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,240
time.
Which ones?

454
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,800
The podcast ads?
Oh, OK.

455
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,200
The ones that are that you sign
up and they'll pair you up with

456
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,320
sponsor and then it's clearly
cuts randomly in an episode to a

457
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,280
product ad.
Like as soon as I hear that it's

458
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,400
like completely different voice
different.

459
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,880
I immediately hit skip and I
know that I can usually hit skip

460
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,760
once or twice to get past the ad
and I will do that every single

461
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,120
time.
The only way that I would say I

462
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:03,800
might consider sticking around
and I I have never put those on

463
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,720
my show to know.
Like is it always an exact point

464
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,440
in the episode that cuts to an
ad or do they have kind of

465
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,760
control?
Like if you say mid roll, is it

466
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,720
always going to be at the 15
minute mark for the halfway mark

467
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:21,120
or is it kind of random?
Because I could see potentially

468
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,560
leading into it.
Like if you know that my show

469
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,640
got paired up with Empowered
Podcasting Conference and I knew

470
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,240
that was happening where I could
almost build a little bit of a a

471
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,360
Segway into that ad before it
played.

472
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,040
I could see a little bit like I
can see myself actually

473
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,760
listening to it if I know the
house is going to lead into it

474
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,240
and kind of guide me into it and
I know what to expect as soon as

475
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,120
it shifts gears and it's like
you need to try blue apron

476
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,120
because yada, yada, yada.
We have the best subscription.

477
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,280
Like it's skip instance.
To me it's like it's either a

478
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,360
host red ads or it's I'm on to
the next.

479
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,760
I'm with you there Nick.
I feel the same way, although

480
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:05,760
even I will say I will skip host
red ads often like I'm thinking

481
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,280
about.
I was listening to one of my

482
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,800
favorite podcast, The Pete and
Sebastian Show just the other

483
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,160
day.
And for one, they do like what

484
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,040
Sid said earlier with who is it?
Mel Robbins?

485
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,520
They front load a little bit
with ads.

486
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,600
So I know instantly when I hit
play, I'm hitting skip at least

487
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,520
two or three times.
But they do take breaks and they

488
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,920
do have some host read ads and I
usually skip them for multiple

489
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,840
reasons.
One, because I know it's, I know

490
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,280
it's an ad And two, a lot of
times their audio quality on

491
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,320
their ads specifically, it does
not come close to the audio

492
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,080
quality of their show.
Show sounds so much better and

493
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,640
it's jarring to me.
And I guess maybe that could be

494
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,440
as a podcast producer, host
Excetera, when I hear bad audio,

495
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,240
I just have to skip it drives me
nuts.

496
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,560
But I think I know that
statistically bad audio tends to

497
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,640
send people packing.
So that's a that's a good point.

498
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,160
So.
The next point, just a second

499
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,240
ago, there are some podcasters
we talked about this a few weeks

500
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:14,920
ago where they will say they'll
do an intro leading into the ad,

501
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,840
right?
And they'll say just from a word

502
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,080
from our sponsor, right,
something like that.

503
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,280
That's where I see the
programmatic ones being put in.

504
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,880
What we talked about was because
this has happened a couple of

505
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,440
times with friend of mine as
well as with Mel Robbins, I've

506
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,360
noticed on her, she leads up to
the ad and come back and join us

507
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,760
right after these words from
important words for sponsors,

508
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,040
whatever.
And then there's no ad, right?

509
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,400
And so somehow it didn't get
inserted in there or something

510
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,920
happened and there's no ad
there.

511
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,280
Or maybe it was, you know, a
Spotify specific ad and I'm

512
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,360
listening on Apple.
So there's no ad there.

513
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,280
So I think that's one of the
problems, if you will, with

514
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:59,920
those inserts that happen.
Yeah, I was listening to another

515
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:04,760
podcast, an independent podcast
recently and noticed that they

516
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,560
do the same thing where it's
they'll it's a storytelling

517
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,320
podcast and they'll say, and
we'll get back to the story

518
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,040
right after this break or
something along those lines.

519
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,840
And there's maybe a second or
two pause and then it comes

520
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,320
right back.
And that that could be the same

521
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,600
issues what you're describing.
Maybe it's working on some

522
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,400
platforms, not others.
Is it a problem?

523
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,600
I think ultimately no, but I
think it's especially not a

524
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,760
problem if you are doing a
storytelling type of podcast.

525
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,960
If you say you're taking a
break, there is really only a

526
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,280
second and then you get back to
the story.

527
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,240
I still actually think in a
storytelling podcast, there's

528
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,600
something about that that works
because you are resetting for

529
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,120
the audience.
You're giving them a a bit of a

530
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,200
pattern disrupt and then reeling
them right back in.

531
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,680
I actually think that that can
work pretty well.

532
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:58,800
Billy, you had something.
Go ahead.

533
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,760
Yeah, I wanted to answer or get
my thoughts about T Rs question

534
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,640
of of course, you know like
what's the benefit or what's the

535
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,080
differences of of the
dynamically inserted from the

536
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,640
platform from the hosting
company versus pod porn versus

537
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:14,920
going and getting your own
sponsors.

538
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,320
I would just say the easier it
is, the the least amount you're

539
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,400
going to get paid.
If you are just going cool bus

540
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,160
route, hit me with an ad.
You're getting paid, maybe not

541
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,640
even pennies.
And then if you're going to

542
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,320
popcorn, once again, you have a
middle guy, somebody in there is

543
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,640
getting a cut.
They'll find your own freaking

544
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,400
sponsors.
They're going to be way better

545
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,120
experience for you, for your
show.

546
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,880
If you have time, If you don't
have time and you're just go to

547
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,880
growing giant audiences, sure
hit the auto button.

548
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:50,840
But otherwise, I would spend a
lot of time getting really great

549
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,360
sponsorship deals because those
are very lucrative from day one.

550
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,720
There's no audience needed and
well, I'll say a small audience

551
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,600
but not the giant audience is
not needed for those.

552
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,040
Yep, and you have the
opportunity for the ad to be

553
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:11,200
more effective and create a much
more lucrative relationship with

554
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,040
a brand versus just a ad that
gets slapped on your show that

555
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,480
you might not have 0 connection.
Nick, can you elaborate a little

556
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:19,520
bit more on that?
What?

557
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,600
Why would that make it more
effective?

558
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,080
I mean, we were talking just a
little bit ago, like you have

559
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,640
flexibility to kind of work with
the brand.

560
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,040
Like you can kind of explain the
the story or how you want to

561
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,160
approach the ad and come to an
agreement.

562
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,800
And it allows for, depending on,
I guess the brand you're working

563
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,920
with, a little more creative
freedom that might land with

564
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,680
your audience better than a
random ad that just pops up that

565
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,480
you have no connection to.
Yeah.

566
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,360
You just take all the creative
control out of it when you're

567
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,520
just getting a random sponsor
slapped on the show.

568
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,760
OK, Yeah, that makes sense.
And by the way, real quick and

569
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,640
then I'm going to keep going to
other people here on stage.

570
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,880
I did want to say because we
were talking about sometimes you

571
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,000
don't have a lot of control of
the placement of the dynamic

572
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,960
ads.
You can say mid roll and as as

573
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,320
Sid was saying, you know, but
does it really play?

574
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,360
Can you get it at that 15 minute
mark if you're a 30 minute

575
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,239
podcast?
Some platforms like Buzzprout,

576
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,920
the answer is no.
There are other platforms.

577
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:28,520
For example, I work, I use B
cast for one of my clients and B

578
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,560
Cast, you can give it a very
specific time code as to when

579
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,159
the ads play.
I mean, you can get literally

580
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:39,920
say, you know, 21 minutes and 32
seconds and it will play at that

581
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,159
mark every time for your
episode.

582
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,800
So, yeah, it's one of those
things you have to look into as

583
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,719
far as what the platform offers
or doesn't offer.

584
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,560
Dr. Did you?
Was it you that also I saw had

585
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,520
something?
Billy, do you do?

586
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,400
Because you were talking about a
relationship with the sponsors.

587
00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:04,400
So do you do host read ads or do
you do sponsor read ads?

588
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,120
What kind of ads do you do?
Yeah, when I was doing my

589
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,000
fishing show, we did a little
bit of both.

590
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:14,160
You know, it's one of those
we'll see what the sponsor

591
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,880
wants.
So like we actually had one

592
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,560
sponsor who wanted us to play
something that they created and

593
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,040
it was very professional and it
was great.

594
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,480
And then we actually like would
commentate on that.

595
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,240
So it would change up every so
often.

596
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,120
And that was, you know, pretty,
pretty cool opportunity there

597
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,640
to, you know, be able to do
that.

598
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,560
And that's why I, I think back
to next point is when you go out

599
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,760
there and you, and you really
build a business around this

600
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,320
thing does when you take
somebody's money, you have a

601
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,960
business and, and you can go and
be creative in those situations,

602
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,640
which is what we all want to do.
And then you can also, you're

603
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,200
content creator.
You have this whole ecosystem

604
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,560
outside of your video podcast
that you can now build on, get

605
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,600
creative with, provide other
services, opportunities or

606
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:08,040
whatever for your sponsors and,
and think that, you know,

607
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:12,880
whatever $100 spot and turn it
to a $500 spot every single

608
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:18,120
month if you can, you know, put
in the work and, and think of

609
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,840
your think of your content for
your world and the world and not

610
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,440
just the thing and you'll and
different products.

611
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,680
Every platform you advertise on
your promote on everything you

612
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:34,720
do is a placement.
So that's what I would, you

613
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:36,320
know, double down with what Nick
is saying.

614
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,840
It's like you have full control.
Not just hey, popcorn, what are

615
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,480
you going to do for me?
Or hey, Buzz Sprout, how are you

616
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,760
going to make money off of me
today?

617
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,880
So Billy, when you say put in
the work, can we unpack that?

618
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,200
What actually does that mean?
What do you do to put in the

619
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,480
work?
I love this question and Sin is

620
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,880
going to love my answer.
It's a sales job and we don't

621
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,600
like sales, but that's what it
is.

622
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,440
You want to get someone to give
you money, you got to get on the

623
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,920
phone, you got to get in their
emails in their in their world

624
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,760
and you have to build value,
whatever that looks like.

625
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,840
You got to follow up and you
have to have a pipeline and I

626
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,000
did.
So I and just for instance, to,

627
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,760
to once again just double down
with, with what Nick was saying.

628
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,120
This first sponsor I ever signed
on to that saltwater fishing

629
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:29,360
show is still, they 1 sponsored
135 episodes that I was on.

630
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,240
And now I think they've
sponsored even more that since

631
00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:35,000
I've left.
So they've been on the show

632
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,600
since the very beginning and
that's just how deep that

633
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,760
relationship is.
So instead of trying to go find

634
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,760
a new customer, because you only
have so many spots, in my

635
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,520
opinion, to put ads in, those
ads get more valuable over time.

636
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,800
And so every year you
renegotiate that contract and

637
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,560
it's a lot easier to get someone
to pay you back in 3rd, 4th year

638
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,520
than it is to go find someone
brand new and try to build the

639
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,880
same value that you've already
built with your current person.

640
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,160
Thank you, Billy.
Appreciate that.

641
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,320
And by the way, Mike in the chat
went into Buzz Sprout, I

642
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,160
suppose, and he pulled out this
quote that says when you enable

643
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:18,680
Buzz Sprout adds or add dynamic
content mid roles, we will

644
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,800
automatically find the best
insertion points in your

645
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,560
episodes.
But you can review, adjust,

646
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,240
delete and add new placements at
any time.

647
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,000
So thank you Mike for pulling
that up.

648
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,280
That was something I wasn't
aware of.

649
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,120
I don't know where you go
exactly in Buzz Sprout to do

650
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,400
that, but if they say you can, I
believe it and I'm just going to

651
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,240
have to go in and dig a little
deeper.

652
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:42,920
So thank you for that tip.
I appreciate it.

653
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:48,440
DRI know you had other questions
that coming into this topic

654
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,840
today.
Did you want to ask any others

655
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,000
you could ask me from based on
my experience both helping my

656
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,440
clients and my experience
running ads on my own podcasts

657
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,680
and also anybody else in the
room can answer the questions as

658
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,360
well?
Yeah.

659
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:11,400
So have podcast ads reached
their absolute peak, or can they

660
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,840
still be effective and engage an
audience?

661
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,720
I think a lot of this has to do
with, you know, my point of

662
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:23,400
reference on this is Conan.
Conan will take one of his

663
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,360
sponsors and just put him
through the wringer.

664
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:33,200
And I'm sure they love it
because he goes on and on and

665
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,560
once he gets on a riff, you
know, he'll just ride that out

666
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,240
and milk it for all it's worth.
So that's my point of reference.

667
00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:44,640
That's not a good point of
reference to have because it's

668
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,440
not the norm.
So have podcast reached their

669
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:53,680
peak when you talk about normal,
I mean normal peak?

670
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,720
Or can they still be effective
and engage in audience?

671
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,760
Well, I mean, I think the
numbers that I shared earlier

672
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:01,800
definitely prove some of that
they it.

673
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,440
It's still very effective and
the predictions are it's going

674
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,880
to continue to go up as far as
the dollar spent by podcast

675
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,880
advertisers.
So I, you know, sure, things

676
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,760
could change like the economy
being a little bit spotty,

677
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,520
putting it lightly, that could
always change things for

678
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,760
advertisers.
But as of now, I mean, the way

679
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,160
that it's working on podcasts,
it's working so well that I

680
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,960
don't see it going anywhere.
I want to see more podcasters

681
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,160
promoting their own stuff or
coming up with their own

682
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,800
products or services that they
can sell.

683
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,320
I think that is a, a, a lost
opportunity.

684
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,800
I think there are some that get
it and are doing it, but I think

685
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,600
there are more that still think
the only ads on their podcast

686
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,000
are other products and services
not their own.

687
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:53,880
Right.
When I get a new client, that's

688
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,240
usually the first thing they
talk about is sponsors.

689
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,520
And I have to tell them.
Sponsors are usually at the

690
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,000
bottom of my list.
I really want you to develop

691
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,120
something that you can sell that
you, you know, you're your own

692
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,160
sponsor.
But also we've talked a lot.

693
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,240
Everything we've talked about is
kind of surrounding the audio

694
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:16,400
version.
What about YouTube advertising

695
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,080
on YouTube?
Now I will say I am my cursor is

696
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,040
on that skip button when I first
open up a video.

697
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,520
It is so quickly on that skip
button but it's not even funny.

698
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,480
I kind of even gamify it to see
how fast I can hit skip.

699
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:39,480
I've gamified it even more Dr.
by I just recently decided to do

700
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,840
YouTube Premium and boy, what a
what a blessing that is.

701
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,520
Oh.
You have gamified it even more.

702
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,280
Yeah, so now I'm literally, I
don't have to hit the skip

703
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:49,920
button.
I'm not getting ads.

704
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,800
The only ads I'm getting are the
ones that the hosts are doing

705
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,800
that are part of their shows,
their channel.

706
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,240
Yes, I'm a geek and I like to
watch breakdowns of Star Wars

707
00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:04,560
movies, TV shows, Marvel movies,
TV shows.

708
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,920
And there are some of those,
those breakdowns I watch where

709
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,080
the host will break and you
won't even realize they're

710
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,880
taking a break and all of a
sudden, oh wait, they're

711
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,680
actually doing an ad now.
They'll just quietly slip it in

712
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,160
there.
And I respect that.

713
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,840
And again, just like podcast
ads, I tend to listen to those.

714
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,520
But I also think there's a
proper length, and I think

715
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,800
sometimes those can be long and
drawn out, so I will eventually

716
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,120
end up skipping.
Yeah, I was going to point out

717
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,600
that when I do skip on YouTube
ads, it my hands are free, I'm

718
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,040
watching the screen, my hand is
on that mouse and you know,

719
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:46,480
completely opposite.
When I'm listening to something,

720
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:52,080
I'm usually driving or washing
dishes or doing something with

721
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,600
my hands that I can't get to the
skip button.

722
00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:00,160
I guess that says that if my
hands were free during during

723
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:04,760
listening to audio that I'm I
might be inclined to skip so.

724
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,720
OK, that's fair.
Let's check in with Sid.

725
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,680
Go ahead, Sid.
So to answer DRS question, I do

726
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,320
not think that I'd cast ads have
reached its peak.

727
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,880
I think they're still an amazing
opportunity.

728
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:19,480
And I think there are two things
here.

729
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:25,920
What's reached its peak is the
CPM rates for independent

730
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,200
broadcasters is an ineffective
sales strategy and we need to

731
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:34,360
look at other ways to be
compensated to solid CPM rates.

732
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:40,040
I also think that the CPM rates
have reached their peak and I

733
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:46,240
also think that we can't compare
advertising to shows like Conan,

734
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:50,280
Joe Rogan or anybody else to
what independent pad casters

735
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,360
are.
So if you want to get an example

736
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:57,800
of we need to do how to do it,
listen to independent shows and

737
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,080
not these really big shows that
are making the kudos of money

738
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,520
off of their advertiser.
That's not the right benchmark

739
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,520
in my opinion.
I agree and disagree because I

740
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:12,280
think we can learn a lot about
effectively producing or putting

741
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,320
out an ad, right?
I don't know why I can't find

742
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,320
the right word here, but you
know, it's there are some of the

743
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,520
top podcasters out there.
I would say yes, pay attention

744
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,520
to how they're doing host, read
ads and learn a little bit about

745
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:26,880
what they're doing.
Why?

746
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,720
You know, if it's keeping your
attention, why do you think it

747
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:32,360
keeps your attention?
Learn from them in that way.

748
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:38,360
I think where you can't compare
is maybe the types of ads that

749
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,520
they're running or the brands
that they're are they're

750
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,640
promoting.
Maybe those big name brands

751
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,640
aren't going to be interested in
a smaller podcast in some cases

752
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,280
and others maybe they are.
But to Sid's point, I agree with

753
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,280
you.
The CPM model, that means

754
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:59,760
basically you are putting a
price on every 1000 listeners of

755
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,080
your podcast and there are a lot
of small podcasts out there that

756
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,200
aren't getting 1000 downloads
per episode, which makes it very

757
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,120
challenging to price out in
using that model.

758
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,240
I even back several years ago
with the Mark and Lowell show,

759
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,600
that was really the only model
back then there, there weren't a

760
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,600
lot of models, but I still would
not fudge the number.

761
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:32,120
But I would not accept ads that
were, you know, say 25 bucks, 10

762
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,040
bucks per thousand.
I would, I would just Jack up

763
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:40,880
that number because I knew that
even if my audience was smaller,

764
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,320
they did grow over time.
But even when the audience was

765
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,000
smaller, I knew that they were
responsive because they had

766
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,080
purchased stuff that I put out
there.

767
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,160
They had purchased stuff that
other advertisers promoted on my

768
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,200
show.
So I knew that there was more

769
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:02,680
value than just sheer numbers.
And it was really do they act on

770
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,600
the things that we talked about
and promote?

771
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,400
And the answer was a profound
yes, they did.

772
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,680
And it was effective.
We would have advertisers from

773
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:13,360
companies.
Both I think that I'm going to

774
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,880
name are no longer in existence.
I think.

775
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,880
Is pro ProFlowers still around?
I don't know if ProFlowers is

776
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,040
still around.
ProFlowers was one and the other

777
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,840
was FanDuel, which they that
that's basically the same kind

778
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,520
of company as Draft Sharks.
If anybody's is that what the

779
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:30,880
name is?
Draft Sharks?

780
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,560
Is it Draft Sharks?
I can't remember, but basically

781
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,560
a fantasy football slash betting
website, fantasy sports slash

782
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:42,200
betting website, they, they
spent a ton of money on us and

783
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,680
we didn't use that traditional
CPM model.

784
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,600
So yeah, I I just don't think
that that model works for

785
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,600
podcasting in most cases.
OK.

786
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:58,360
I would just lastly say here,
this goes all comes down to if

787
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,520
you're going to do any kind of
ads for anybody else or really

788
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,400
even for yourself.
It does all come back down to

789
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,040
what we always talk about is
knowing your audience.

790
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,160
If if you don't know really who
your audience is, if you're just

791
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,920
taking a wild guess and you're
trying to get people to

792
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,240
advertise, it could be
challenging for you.

793
00:47:17,240 --> 00:47:20,680
The more we know about the
audience, the better we can

794
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,920
serve them.
And really then content, I

795
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,240
should say, really then ads
become content because if we can

796
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:31,880
find the right matches, we're
going to keep their attention

797
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,680
even through the ads.
I think a lot of us are skipping

798
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,520
those ads because they're
irrelevant to us.

799
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,560
They're not something that's top
of mind while we're listening to

800
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:42,960
that podcast.
They're it's, we're, they're

801
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,040
talking about something that
we're just not interested in.

802
00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:49,760
But if they're, if it's a
business podcast and you're

803
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:55,000
talking to entrepreneurs and
you're doing ads on a, let's say

804
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,920
a QuickBooks alternative that's
cheaper, just as robust

805
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:04,120
excetera, that audience might
stay and want to listen to that

806
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,840
ad.
So you got to know who your

807
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,120
audience is.
So like for my Mark and Lowell

808
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,720
show, when we were heavily
pursuing advertisers, we knew we

809
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:15,400
had a Gen.
X audience.

810
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:20,320
We knew it was 65% male.
We knew the average household

811
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,080
income based on surveys that we
had put out before for our

812
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,680
audience, household incomes with
$75,000 or more.

813
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,280
And this was information that's
not just important for our

814
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,720
advertisers to know, but again,
important for us to know so that

815
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:37,440
we could decide is this going to
be a good fit.

816
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,800
We did not take just anybody.
And the only times that I'd say

817
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,280
we would take somebody that we
weren't sure of as far as is it

818
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:50,680
an exact match with our target
audience was when they were

819
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,840
products or services that we
were personally interested in.

820
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,880
Because often times when we
showed that we were interested

821
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:01,800
in an app, for example, then we
would talk about the app and

822
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,600
then our audience would go and
get the app.

823
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,680
And then they ended up talking
to us about the app and it would

824
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,680
become content on our show.
The discussion of the app

825
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,480
itself.
I think just on a really

826
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,480
important point that needs to be
said, make sure you know your

827
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:23,400
audience and you are aligned
with that sponsor.

828
00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:25,520
Ask them who their target
audience is.

829
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,280
And as hard as it may be, if
it's not a match, you got to be

830
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,440
OK with parting ways and, and
letting them know, yeah, this

831
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,840
isn't going to work for you, my
audience.

832
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,440
This is not something my
audience is interested in.

833
00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:43,160
We, I could take your money, but
I don't think it's going to be a

834
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,400
good investment.
Well, I think this this is a

835
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,000
good place to stop.
A quick programming note,

836
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:53,880
Thursday is Juneteenth, so we
are going to take the day off in

837
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,440
honor of, and let me make sure.
Yeah, it is Thursday.

838
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,920
Yes, Thursday is Juneteenth, so
we're going to take that day

839
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,840
off.
I know that feels a little weird

840
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,520
in our schedule since we are
doing Mondays off these days,

841
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,000
but so be it.
We want to respect and honor

842
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,040
that day.
So we'll we are back tomorrow,

843
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,040
7:00 AM Eastern, covering all
the news and headlines around

844
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,640
the world of podcasting.
And then Thursday we'll be off.

845
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,200
And then we'll be back Friday to
wrap up the week.

846
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,440
So please mark your calendars.
Please be here on Friday as

847
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,160
well.
Even though we're taken Thursday

848
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,840
off, we will be back here
sharing our wins from the week

849
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,040
and also talking all things
podcasting.

850
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:36,280
So until tomorrow, make it a
great day everybody take care.