311 - Cracking the Code on Charts & Discoverability

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Good morning, podcasting Morning
Chat.

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Today is Tuesday, May 27th,
2025, and today we're cracking

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the code behind podcast charts.
From Spotify to YouTube.

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We'll unpack how rankings really
work and what that means for

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your shows, bills, visibility
and growth.

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So if you're listening live on
Clubhouse, hit the share button,

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bottom left hand side of the
screen and share it.

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However, Clubhouse lets you.
And if you're listening via

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podcast, please share this
episode with a fellow podcaster.

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And now give us about 30
seconds.

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We'll get things rolling.
Thanks for being here.

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Good morning again, podcasting,
Morning chat.

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Thank you for being here.
I am your host, Mark Ronick, and

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here on stage with me.
We have a full house.

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We have producer Ashley Feller,
Alex.

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Welcome back, Ashley.
Alex Baelish, Nick Naalbach, Dr.

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Faye, that was the person
screaming, and Sid Meadows.

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Oh, and also Amanda Sharp is on
stage with us as well.

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Really, when I say full house,
it's a full house.

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And thanks to those of you who
are here in the audience bright

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and early this morning.
I should let you know I forgot

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to grab the link, so I'll do
that.

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I am also streaming live again
on YouTube.

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It's been a few weeks because,
well, I've been away and then

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last week I was in Maryland all
week visiting family didn't

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really have the equipment to go
live here on YouTube.

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So here we are back in my home
studio really happy to be back.

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It's really yesterday was my
first full day sitting at my

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desk and and I know it was a
holiday yesterday, but being

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that I've been away for so long
and even last week was a bit of

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a distraction really wasn't a
full work week for me.

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Yeah, today is that first day
back in the chair, as they say,

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and it is really good to be
back.

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So couple things first, I'll
share a little bit more about

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what I want to get into today,
but I just I don't know why I

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just figured I'd share with you
on I think it was Friday.

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I posted a short a video on
social media and I'm sharing

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this because for whatever reason
I seem to be attracting haters

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on.
Social media I repurposed.

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This short that I made probably
a couple of years ago, the topic

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was on Three Minutes to Hook a
podcast listener.

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It's one of my favorites, just
one of the ones that I put out

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that I'm really proud of and I
even use.

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And the reason why I repurposed
it is because part of the video,

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what I like about it, is I use
the Mission Impossible theme

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music and it really adds that
fast-paced tempo, that

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fast-paced feel to the video.
And it's done great for me in

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the past.
And I figured, well, with the

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new Mission Impossible movie
out, I figured why not, let's

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put it out there again and see
what happens.

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And I wouldn't say it's had the
same success that it has in the

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past.
I think I've maybe repurposed

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this twice or one other time,
this being my second, but this

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was the first time I got hate
from it.

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And admittedly it does still
kind of rubbed me the wrong way

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when I see some hate messages,
but I certainly don't lose sleep

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over it either.
In these cases it more or less

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just baffled me.
Like why do people take the time

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just to hate?
I saw on TikTok and I left this

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one up there.
There was one on YouTube that I

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just removed because it was mean
spirited and I didn't need it on

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there.
The TikTok one said you couldn't

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even keep me from bouncing off
this video in four seconds.

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Keep in mind the opening hook is
something along the lines of

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you've only got 3 minutes to
hook your podcast listeners.

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Here's how to keep them from
bouncing, meaning bouncing off

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your podcast.
So that person says you couldn't

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even keep me from bouncing off
of this video in four seconds.

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My reply to that person was,
well, it's a good thing I don't

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try to teach TikTok strategies
then, right?

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So he was commenting how?
Well, you couldn't even keep me

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on this video.
Of course, he did stay more than

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4 seconds because he had to
comment on it, but irrelevant,

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right?
OK, so you didn't like the video

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on TikTok.
Well, that's not what I'm here

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for.
I'm not here to teach you

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TikTok.
So I felt good about that reply

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and I felt like, you know what,
keep it up there because as

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we've shared before, engagement
can tend to help yours content

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be more seen.
And on YouTube, it was something

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similar.
It was something like I bounced

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and blocked you.
That one I just deleted because

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I don't know, just didn't feel
like there was anything I could

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respond to it where I don't
know, I just felt like I just

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felt like getting rid of it.
DRI see your hand is up.

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What did you want to say?
You said that you repurposed

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this, right?
This was a repurpose?

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Yep.
OK.

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So the first time that you or
the last time that you posted it

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was there the same kind of
reaction?

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Not at all.
Well, now that's weird.

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Yeah, yeah.
It's really weird.

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I don't know, maybe I was
thinking maybe because I did use

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the hashtag Mission Impossible,
and maybe these are just Mission

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Impossible fans that could care
less about or couldn't care less

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about podcasting.
So who knows?

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And Jonathan, I saw your emoji
looked like maybe fingernail

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painting, and I'm curious why
you chose that one.

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Because people are just going to
say what they're going to say

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and you just need to go on with
your life and do what you need

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to do.
I wouldn't worry about checking

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out hashtags or anything.
I would just chalk it up to,

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hey, it's engagement and that's
perfect what you needed.

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Yeah, that's kind of what I'm
thinking too.

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And it's still annoying to get
those.

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And it's one of those things
that I have told myself I got to

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get used to it.
Like I've shared with you

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before, I want to go, I don't
want to say go viral, but I do

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want, I do want to grow.
I do want to reach as many

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people as possible.
And I do feel like I was telling

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Nick this maybe over the weekend
or maybe on Friday.

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I do feel like I've earned those
stripes and it's about time.

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And if I'm, if that's going to
happen, if I were to all of a

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sudden blow up on social media,
I'm going to see a lot of, I'm

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going to get a lot of hate.
It's just inevitable.

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And I got to develop that thick
skin.

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I'm actually OK with that hate.
I know I said I deleted that one

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just because.
And it just felt so irrelevant

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and unnecessary.
So I deleted it.

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I got to get used to keeping
them up no matter what because

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like I said, if I'm going to
manifest some big success on

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social media, that's the kind of
stuff that comes with that.

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So to be continued, I'll let you
know if I get any more hate.

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And today we're going to get
into something I know that a lot

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of us wrestle with.
And it's not hate, it's

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discovery.
Specifically, how podcast charts

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work and what they mean for us
as indie creators trying to grow

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a show in a space that's always
shifting, always changing.

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So we'll look at the charts, how
they're calculated across the

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platforms like Spotify and
Apple, YouTube, even Good Pods.

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I think Good Pods is worth
discussing as an indie podcaster

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platform, but more importantly,
how that affects how we create

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and promote our content.
But I want to be super clear

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upfront.
I believe, and you've heard me

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say it, if we truly know what
our audience wants or what

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entertains them, everything else
tends to fall into place.

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Discovery, rankings, growth.
It all starts with understanding

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the people we're making this
for.

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So while today is going, we're
going to explore platform

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algorithms and strategies to
climb the charts.

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Maybe at the end of the day,
it's about connecting with your

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audience.
That's the foundation so.

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Let's acknowledge that and.
Put that to the side because

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it's going to be easy for a lot
of us to say, well, I'm just

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making content for my audience
and that's all that matters.

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I agree with you, but charts
exist, algorithms exist, and I

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think it's important for us to
at least understand how these

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things work if we're going to.
Continue to try to build up our

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discoverability, to continue to
try to grow what we're creating.

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So we're going to kick things
off with an icebreaker question

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and then we'll move into all the
things I said, how the charts

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actually work, what impact they
have on us, what we can

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realistically do to improve
discoverability.

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So let's start with what's one
way that you hope people would

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find your show, But maybe it
hasn't quite worked out that way

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yet.
Maybe you feel like you've had

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this way that's going to help
people find your show and you've

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been pushing that way, but you
don't feel like it's being

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received and it's not really
paying off.

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Does anyone want to start?
That's here on stage.

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And if you're listening in the
audience, come on up.

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By the way, good to see you,
Paula, joining us here in the

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chat.
It's been a minute.

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So thank you for joining us.
And also hello to Jeff, Greg,

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Michael, Michelle, Brian,
Yvonne, thank you for being

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here.
Come on up and join us if you

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are interested.
But yeah, what's what's the

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discovery method?
What's a way that you're trying

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to get people to find your show
and maybe it's working for you.

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Maybe it's not anyone want to
share or you want me to share

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first?
OK, hello Co hosts.

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How are you?
So today one way that I've been

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working to get more eyes and
ears on the podcast is through

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meta ads.
And I would say it has gotten

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more ears and eyes on my
content.

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I've seen it, but I don't think
it's been moving the needle

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enough for me yet.
And I'm working with our friend

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Tyler, who's been on the show
before working with Tyler to to

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tweak that to see how we can get
it to work more in my favor.

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And I think one of the biggest
ways for me that we're going to

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do that is to really pinpoint
who I'm targeting.

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I think we for the first month
or two, we were keeping it

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pretty broad on purpose just to
see what it attracted.

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And now I want to, I've been
keeping a list of who are the

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types of people, the types of
industries that would benefit

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from a morning discussion on
podcasting.

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Because I've been specific to
trying to get people to come to

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the podcasting morning chat, not
necessarily to come to my

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business website, just specific
to the podcasting morning chat.

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So I'm working on, OK, who am I
going to target specifically?

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Now?
Maybe that's going to be

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coaches, maybe it's authors,
nutritionists, Realtors.

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These are the types of people
that I think could really

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benefit from having a podcast
that may not have made the time

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to create a podcast and could
use some help.

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DRI saw your hand up.
Go for it.

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I have a platform of course.
I purchased it on Epsomo a

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little while ago and it's called
press Ranger and what they do is

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press releases and I've had it
for a while.

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I have not cracked it open yet,
but I have ish new client have

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ish they, they have yet to
return the, you know, signed

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contract, but we talked and this
is the first time that I'll be

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embarking on that, that press
release platform.

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I'm kind of excited because they
have all the big names.

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They guarantee to get a press
release to, you know, all that

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the CBS News, ABCNBC,
Entrepreneur magazine, Fox Money

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Watch, I mean you name it, they
guarantee to get the press

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releases to those places and
we'll see how it works out.

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I'll be interested to see how it
works out.

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I love that.
Thank you for sharing that, Dr.

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and I would love for you to, if
you're open to it, to document

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your process as you go and share
with us how that's working.

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Yeah, I don't think enough of us
take advantage of PR and I know

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we've had in the past a while
back, probably a room about how

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to utilize PR.
But I think having something one

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of us actually going through it
and using something guided like

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what you're talking about, I
think that would be really

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helpful for us as a community to
learn from.

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So would love to follow that
journey with you.

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We've got Yvonne on stage.
Yvonne, did you want to share a

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way that you've tried to help
discoverability with your show,

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help grow your show?
Maybe it's worked really well

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00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,080
for you.
Maybe it hasn't worked well at

224
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:16,760
all for you.
What?

225
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,960
What say you?
Well, a couple of years ago I

226
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:28,320
hosted A symposium or a summit,
an online summit, and I did paid

227
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,640
ad for that summit.
I don't usually do paid ads on

228
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:37,200
Facebook and Instagram and all
that, but I did end up with 300

229
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,800
people signing up to come to the
summit, which I was very pleased

230
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,560
with and they ended up on my
e-mail list, etcetera.

231
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,800
The thing though that I learned
from that is not all of them are

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00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,880
podcast listeners.
And so that was an interesting,

233
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,400
like, I don't know that they
necessarily all of them

234
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,000
translated into ongoing
listeners of the podcast and I

235
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,480
don't even know how to measure
that.

236
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,440
So that is the thing.
The other thing that I've done

237
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:12,120
is try to build a presence on
mostly Instagram is where I put

238
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:18,480
a lot of my energy and that I've
had some success in, in building

239
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,560
up some numbers over an
Instagram and sharing my message

240
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,360
there.
And again, I don't know that it

241
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:29,720
translates into podcast
listeners, but it is another way

242
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,640
for me to talk about my topic
and meet people where they are.

243
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,160
So I figure it's not, you know,
it's it's worthwhile.

244
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,240
Yeah, yeah.
I love these.

245
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,000
Thank you.
And I'm curious if we could, if

246
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:48,560
anyone has ideas or thoughts for
Yvonne, maybe this time it's too

247
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,760
late.
But for future, for anybody else

248
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,200
listening who's thinking about
doing an online event or

249
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,600
building up their podcast
presence through social media,

250
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,800
how do we measure the success of
something like that, something

251
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,640
like an online event?
Does anyone have any

252
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,800
suggestions?
And I do, but I'm trying to get

253
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,040
everybody else to participate
here and not hog the mic the

254
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,560
whole time.
Does anyone have any thoughts or

255
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,040
ideas for Yvonne or anybody,
anybody else?

256
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:23,280
How do we track that conversion
from, say, an online event to a

257
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,160
podcast listener?
Wow.

258
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,160
I mean, simple custom QR codes
that you have at the online

259
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:34,480
event that may direct them to
the podcast and obviously you

260
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,280
know where they're coming from.
So you can just track the scans

261
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,840
on that QR code.
But really other ways to track

262
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,200
and on an in person event to
online is going to be I had

263
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,880
something come into my head and
it's calm down.

264
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:53,120
No problem, No problem.
Yeah, I think that's a great way

265
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,480
using QR codes.
And still you don't know at the

266
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,080
end of the day.
And that's one of the problems

267
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,040
of podcasting, I think, is that
it is hard to track how people

268
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,560
are finding you.
And are they sticking around

269
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,640
once they do, right?
Yeah, you might be able to

270
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:09,440
track.
OK.

271
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,000
Somebody used this QR code 100
times.

272
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,319
Awesome.
That sent them to my podcast.

273
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:18,960
But did they press play?
And if they press play, are they

274
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,040
coming back?
Are they pressing play in the

275
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,920
future?
That can be challenging and

276
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,000
frustrating as a podcaster.
Yes.

277
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,880
Ashley, good morning.
And as Dr. said, welcome back.

278
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,720
Oh, thank you.
I was just thinking maybe some

279
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,760
sort of a host event survey,
Like maybe if you have the

280
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,320
emails of the folks who attended
the event, just send them a

281
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,240
questionnaire saying how did you
find us and through what

282
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,640
channels?
Yeah, absolutely.

283
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,200
That's another great way to do
it.

284
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,920
And I think even putting out a
survey for your podcast

285
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,680
audience, you know, when you're
asking them to say, follow you,

286
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,200
maybe instead you asked them to
go to a link on your website and

287
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,360
fill out the survey so that you
can better get to know them

288
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,000
better.
Jonathan, you had it popped back

289
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,040
in your head.
It popped back in my head.

290
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,480
So two things.
Eventbrite is a great tool for

291
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,320
events whenever you can use it
because it does keep track of

292
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:15,800
who's coming.
You get a list.

293
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,760
It really is makes it easy.
You can e-mail directly from

294
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,720
that platform.
The other thing is getting

295
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,440
instead of actually relying on
the QR codes, get their emails

296
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,680
from, you know, when they walk
in the door, get their emails

297
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,040
and send out an e-mail like
Ashley said, like hey, fill out

298
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,040
the survey or listen to this
episode of my podcast if you

299
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,000
haven't already or followed the
podcast.

300
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:39,920
Something simple in the e-mail
that's easy for them to do.

301
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,240
Yeah, I love that.
Thank you.

302
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,640
Appreciate that great
suggestion.

303
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,360
OK.
And anyone else or shall I

304
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,760
continue on?
All right, I will continue on.

305
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,240
Do you?
Find.

306
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,760
Well, maybe I should ask it like
this.

307
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,320
Is there any frustration that
you have when it comes to

308
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,160
podcast discoverability?
Is there anything?

309
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:05,080
Yeah.
Ashley.

310
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:06,960
All right, I'll stop right there
since you raised your hand.

311
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:07,800
Thank you.
Go for it.

312
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,400
I think it's that so much of it
feels, I don't know if it

313
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,280
actually is, but it feels that
way, that it's dependent on

314
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,280
YouTube because I've heard it
thousands of times.

315
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,840
You know, you get the most
discoverability out of YouTube.

316
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,880
And that puts a lot of pressure
on folks to create video, which

317
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,960
we all know is a whole other,
you know, can of worms in terms

318
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,480
of time, expenses, personal
investment.

319
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,080
I think that's it.
Yeah.

320
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,560
Just being a little more aware
that YouTube is a is a huge

321
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,360
factor in discoverability.
I can get on board with that and

322
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:48,240
I don't think it means that has
to be video.

323
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,960
Right.
Nowadays with podcasting being

324
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,640
at the forefront of YouTube, at
least it it's part of their big

325
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,600
plans to continue to become or
stay the number one platform in

326
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,400
podcasting.
And you can do that with audio

327
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,600
only content.
People are doing that with audio

328
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,280
only content.
I do think that the video tends

329
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,240
to make people stop their
scrolls more quickly.

330
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,200
But yeah, you could, absolutely.
Take advantage of YouTube.

331
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,400
And it's interesting how these
different platforms differ

332
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,000
between how they are ranking
your podcast.

333
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,320
And ultimately, let's be real,
the rankings all feed into that

334
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,280
same algorithm.
So, you know, if you're looking

335
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,200
to get more views, more
listening time, more watch time,

336
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,320
etcetera, it all plays into the
same thing.

337
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,040
You're going to move up those
rankings if you're doing all the

338
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,480
things that the algorithm wants
to see you doing.

339
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,600
So I think then maybe I'll just
dive into what some of these

340
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,960
tools actually do, how they do
it, right.

341
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,400
So, starting with Apple.
Pulling up my notes here.

342
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,720
Starting with Apple.
Here's how Apple, and this comes

343
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,480
from an article from Pod News
and some additional research to

344
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,720
make sure we were on the same
page as Pod News.

345
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,560
Let's start with Apple,
According to Pod News, factors

346
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,400
include.
New follows so people who hit

347
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,240
that plus button on your podcast
located on Apple podcast

348
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,120
playback activity.
So those people who are hitting

349
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,720
play and completion rate, that's
how long they're actually

350
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:37,040
listening to your podcast that
particular episode or episodes.

351
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,800
How long is it 20 minutes of
your 60 minute episode?

352
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:48,400
Is it all 60 minutes and the
more time spent listening the

353
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,240
better?
Ratings and reviews are not

354
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,320
considered when it comes to
Apple Podcasts and I'm curious,

355
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,400
does that change anything for
anybody?

356
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,440
If you know now, maybe you
didn't before that ratings and

357
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,960
reviews aren't a factor in Apple
Podcasts.

358
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,400
Does that change how you?
Would promote at the end of your

359
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,160
show, Would you would you
continue to say please rate and

360
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,360
review the podcast?
Does that matter to you anymore?

361
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:18,920
Yeah, Dr. Great review.
I think it's under appreciated.

362
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,400
Everyone says it doesn't mean
anything, doesn't mean anything.

363
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,760
I think it gives you a
tremendous amount of St. cred

364
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:29,760
and you you just never know
who's reading through, you know,

365
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,640
05 stars, OK, I might give that
a listen.

366
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,600
Or, you know, two stars that's
low on my totem pole.

367
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,080
I might listen to it, but it's
I'm not going to rush to it.

368
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,840
So I think indirectly, I think
it can help despite what people

369
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,840
say, because I hear all the time
it doesn't help.

370
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,320
It doesn't make any difference.
I hear that all the time, but I

371
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,840
think indirectly it may help.
And then the cherry on top is

372
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,240
the, you know, the, the street
cred, St. cred is not the right

373
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,120
word, but social proof is what I
was looking for.

374
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:08,160
Yes, the social proof that it
gives you.

375
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,160
Yeah, I'm with you.
I'm with you there.

376
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,480
And I see Nick, Jonathan and Sid
want to chime in.

377
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,000
Let's go to Nick.
We haven't heard from Nick yet

378
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,040
this morning.
Good morning, Nick.

379
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,400
Yeah.
So what say you on this topic of

380
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,600
ratings and reviews with Apple?
Hey, good morning everybody.

381
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,760
I think it's important this
whenever we have conversations

382
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:32,520
talking about algorithms or the
the systems that are ranking our

383
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,440
stuff behind the scenes, we
always have to keep in mind that

384
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,320
we're still creating the shows,
the content for people.

385
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,400
And yeah, the ratings and
reviews might not do anything

386
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,360
for your show algorithmically.
Sounds like a good one.

387
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,800
Sounds legit.
It still has an impact on the

388
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,000
people like someone is going to
a physical person is going to

389
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,400
look at those reviews and that
could be a deciding background

390
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,920
of whether or not they listen to
your show or not.

391
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,800
So it might not help you rank
higher in the charts, but it

392
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,440
still might help you get
listeners because at the end of

393
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,400
the day, the listeners are
people.

394
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,000
They're not the AI, they're not
the robots, they're not the

395
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,680
algorithms that are listening to
your show.

396
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,760
So I think they are still
relevant, just not necessarily

397
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,800
to the algorithm conversation
specifically.

398
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,040
Yeah, I feel that.
I'm.

399
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,120
I'm with you there.
I'm curious.

400
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,480
Everybody in this room, even if
you're listening live in the

401
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:39,040
audience with a show of emoji
hands, thumbs up, or you can do

402
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:45,480
a little wave hand, How many of
you make that decision on a

403
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,760
podcast based on the rankings?
If we had two shows exactly

404
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,680
talking about the exact same
stuff, but one had five star

405
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,440
reviews and one had say one or
two on average.

406
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:04,200
So most people in this room are
saying the ratings.

407
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,480
Oh my God, I'm the only one that
which I'm selling stuff.

408
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,960
There's Jonathan's got it too,
Jonathan.

409
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,240
OK and Nick's, yeah.
And I didn't put my hand up and

410
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,960
I, as much as I like to say
that's it doesn't play a role,

411
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,920
it does for me.
I definitely am going to.

412
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:26,120
If all things were equal except
for one show had more five star

413
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,600
reviews than the other, I'm
probably going to that one

414
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:29,880
first.
All right.

415
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,840
Let's go to Sid and then
Jonathan.

416
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:33,560
Go ahead, Sid.
Good.

417
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,760
Morning everybody.
I'm still going to ask for

418
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:41,920
ratings and reviews because
their content, I take them and

419
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,640
repurpose them and put them on
my website.

420
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,080
You can use them on social
media, right?

421
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,320
I post them in my stories on
Instagram.

422
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,840
I have not used them on
LinkedIn, which is my preferred

423
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,520
platform.
I need to start doing that, but

424
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,240
their content too.
So whether or not they're

425
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,080
helping the algorithm, they will
help your lurkers that are

426
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,640
following your content but not
commenting and maybe not

427
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,920
listening to your show.
So just remember that they are

428
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,040
content as well.
Thank you, Sid.

429
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,800
And a follow up question for
you.

430
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:11,080
So if you're going to start
doing this on LinkedIn, how will

431
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,200
you use those reviews and
ratings on LinkedIn

432
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,280
specifically?
I'll just post it as content and

433
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,640
I'll take the grad week because
we have a system that when we

434
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,680
get an e-mail from whatever odd
thing it is that we get the

435
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,000
notification that we've got a
rating and review.

436
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,400
We take it and we have a graphic
and then we put that on the

437
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,680
website.
We cycle the new ones at the

438
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:37,440
top.
Haven't done it.

439
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,560
We've gotten 3 new ones.
We haven't done it recently, but

440
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,080
but then we take the old ones to
put them on the second page.

441
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,240
So we put the news on the 1st
place.

442
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,200
I'll just take that graphic and
post it and you know, give a

443
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,880
shout out if I know the person,
give a shout out to the person

444
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,400
and say thanks for the rating
and review.

445
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,920
We really appreciate you being
part of the community and thanks

446
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,760
for letting us know how much you
enjoyed the show.

447
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,400
Something very simple.
I like that.

448
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,560
I like that because it feels
really personal.

449
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,080
It's not just you as the
podcaster posting, hey, we got

450
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,680
this great review, take a look.
It's actually thanking that

451
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,440
person.
It's taking it a little bit of a

452
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:15,080
step further and taking a moment
to say, hey, thanks, Joe Blow,

453
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,840
appreciate this review.
And then sharing it.

454
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,920
There's just it, it adds a layer
that I think is important.

455
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,800
It personalizes it that much
more.

456
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,920
Yeah, so I I would still ask for
ratings and reviews and another

457
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,960
way besides using them as social
proof posts on Instagram or

458
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,880
something like that.
I love the idea of thinking

459
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,800
people said.
The other thing that I think

460
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:43,440
that they come in handy for and
where I do look at reviews is if

461
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,480
I'm researching somebody who
might be a potential guest, I

462
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,920
might go over and peek if
they've got a podcast and see

463
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,880
how their podcast seems to be
doing and look at that as as a

464
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,080
factor.
It's certainly never a deciding

465
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,160
factor because story is king and
in my world of having a guest

466
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,840
on.
But that said, if I want to go

467
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:13,320
be a guest elsewhere or build a
career as a speaker, which I'm

468
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,560
hoping to do in the future, it
is, as Dr. would say, St. cred

469
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,960
or social proof that says, hey,
I have a podcast, it's got all

470
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,320
these five star reviews, blah,
blah, blah.

471
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,880
So it's good for marketing.
Yeah, great for marketing,

472
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,560
absolutely.
And Mike Short here in the chat

473
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,800
says rating and reviews help
SEO, and I'd like to love to

474
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,600
hear more about that, at least
from your perspective, Michael.

475
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,160
And in the meantime, if you want
to come up, please do now.

476
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,880
It's a good opportunity.
And Nick, I saw your hand go

477
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,520
back up.
What do you got to say?

478
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,120
Yeah, I actually had a question
for the whole group and everyone

479
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,280
listening here.
OK, when you're finding a show,

480
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,840
how often are you going to the
charts?

481
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,080
Because for me personally, I
don't remember the last time,

482
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,840
aside from you guys doing the
the roundup during Wednesday's

483
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,040
weekly news, I can't remember
the last time I've actually

484
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,080
looked at the charts to find the
podcast.

485
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:19,400
I'm always in the search.
That's a great question and I

486
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,080
don't think I've ever done that.
I mean, maybe, maybe.

487
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,760
Once or twice in my lifetime of
podcasting, I'm pretty sure I

488
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,080
probably have, but ultimately
that's not where I'm going to

489
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,600
find a new podcast.
And that said, again, it goes

490
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,160
back to what I said at the
beginning.

491
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:44,280
If we are playing the game and
trying to chart, I think and and

492
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,200
we're and we know how to do
that.

493
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,440
So in Apple's case, if we know
getting new follows lot of

494
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,360
playback activity and a high
completion rate, if we're

495
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,720
creating content around that,
even if we don't chart, it's

496
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,960
going to still help algorithmic
algorithmically.

497
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,160
Like you said, they kind of go
hand in hand, but I don't think

498
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,880
people are going to charts often
to to find a new podcast for

499
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,280
themselves.
Yeah, Sid, go ahead.

500
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,760
So.
I'm just going to say out loud,

501
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,880
I am not trying to chart.
I am not trying to go viral.

502
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,000
I am not trying to become a
social media rock star.

503
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:29,480
I'm trying to have impact to the
people that follow me and give

504
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,080
content that helps them in their
life and their business.

505
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,360
I can care less about the
charts.

506
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,840
I can care less about going
viral.

507
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,840
What I care about is the 125, a
hundred people, whoever it is,

508
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,440
however many it is on a given
day, that consume any of my

509
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,280
content, that my content has
made a positive impact in their

510
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,080
life for their business, and
that is what I'm after.

511
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,160
And I totally respect and
appreciate that.

512
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,560
And if you are handed over a
formula that says here's how to

513
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,440
impact more people, do you do
you ignore the formula?

514
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,440
It's a really great question,
mark.

515
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,000
And I think that if it was about
reaching the right people versus

516
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,080
reaching the masses, right, what
you're talking about how to do

517
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,200
this with Apple, and I'm seeing
you're going to get to Spotify

518
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,440
too, is about reaching the
masses.

519
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,360
And my podcast is not for the
masses.

520
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,240
My podcast is really niche.
It's about a specific topic and

521
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,920
a specific group of people.
And I don't care about reaching

522
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,760
the masses.
I care about reaching the right

523
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,960
people.
So if it could, if it was a

524
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,080
formula that could help me reach
the 10,000 people or whatever it

525
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,680
is that work in the office
furniture industry, then I'd be

526
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,040
all about it.
But if it's a formula that says

527
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,720
this is how you reach the
masses, I'm not interested.

528
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,240
And I'm not trying to be the
naysayer here, but I know what

529
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,520
my podcast is about.
I know who my podcast is for,

530
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:52,760
and I know who I'm trying to
reach.

531
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,840
And every day I try to reach and
connect with those people.

532
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,240
OK.
Yeah, I'm with you there.

533
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,720
Go ahead, Nick.
So I got a question for you

534
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,520
because I I like that mission
with the show.

535
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,400
I think that that's great and I
think a lot of people probably

536
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:12,600
resonate and feel that I, but I
do have a question on that I

537
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,200
think is important to this whole
thing is with that being your

538
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,040
goal, how are you tracking the
success of that?

539
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,880
How are you tracking that you
are in fact impacting these

540
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,280
people?
Is there any kind of way that

541
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,000
you are keeping track of that?
So it's a great question, Nick.

542
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,080
And I would say that the number
one metric, and I've used, I've

543
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,480
said this before, the number one
metric that I look at is the

544
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,160
amount of people that reach out
to me through my show or during

545
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,680
whatever it is that tell me that
my shows had an impact on them.

546
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,840
I mentioned this in a win, I
think it was on Friday about a

547
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,280
guy that wants to meet me in a
couple of weeks simply because

548
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,040
he wants to shake my hand and
say thank you because my content

549
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,480
has helped him in his life and
his career, right?

550
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:05,040
So that's my number one metric
is the people that reach out to

551
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:06,720
me.
The second metric is obviously I

552
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,960
do look at the vanity metrics
just to see if we're getting

553
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,120
reached, if our shift to show is
at least being consistent with

554
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,760
his downloads or if it's
increasing.

555
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,320
And if I see an increase or a
spike in downloads, I want to

556
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,040
know why.
Most of those have to do with

557
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,280
the guests.
When I see a spike in download

558
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,160
just because I had a really good
guest that is a well known guest

559
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,880
in the industry, right?
So I'm looking at some of those

560
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,720
basic things.
But to me, the number one metric

561
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,400
is people reaching out to me.
And I do, thankfully, get a lot

562
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,720
of people reaching out to me.
Makes a lot of sense to me.

563
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,040
Nick, does that satisfy your
question?

564
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,760
I just think it's something
because it's one that's not as

565
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,040
easily tracked as say, oh, where
am I on the charts?

566
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,160
OK, I will up here at 100.
OK, now I'm showing up at 98.

567
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,520
What can I do differently?
Like it's, it's a little more

568
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,240
elusive as to how to actually
track it.

569
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,160
And I think tracking the
success, especially with a goal

570
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,440
for your show, is such a
crucially important piece of the

571
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,520
puzzle that a lot of people
miss.

572
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,520
So that's I just.
Yeah.

573
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,080
Yeah, cool, cool.
Thank you.

574
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,760
And yeah, that just also
reminded me, by the way, if

575
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,760
you're curious and want a quick
way of looking where you may

576
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:29,280
chart on, say Apple as an
example, and actually I think

577
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,560
this is maybe specific to Apple,
you can go to

578
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:39,679
charts.mopodmowpod.com and plug
in your podcast and see where

579
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:43,239
you chart.
I have plugged in the podcasting

580
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:50,639
morning chat and we come up.
As #151 in the how to category

581
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:56,639
in the United States, I saw last
week we were number one, I think

582
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,840
at one point in Vietnam.
Don't know why.

583
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,000
But we were, and it's a fun way
just to kind of get a gauge, see

584
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,200
where.
You may fall in a specific

585
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,200
category.
I think how To is the first.

586
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:12,880
You know, you usually get 3
categories you can pick when

587
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,400
you're setting up your podcast.
I think How To was the primary

588
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,800
category I chose, and I think
the second category I chose was

589
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,960
marketing, which I know is a
little more challenging for me

590
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,520
to rank at all in that
particular category.

591
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,240
Where do you get the charts,
Kate?

592
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:35,680
I just, I just shared it with
youcharts.mopod.com will show

593
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,640
you where you fall on the charts
and when you're using specific

594
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,440
players like Apple, etcetera,
you can usually find those

595
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,680
pretty easily.
I'm pulling up Apple right now

596
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,120
just to refresh my memory.
If you go to the search, I think

597
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,320
that's probably your best way to
find the different categories

598
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,400
and where and how people are
charting within those

599
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,520
categories.
Mike, thank you for coming up on

600
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,360
stage.
I called you out a moment ago

601
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,920
where you said ratings and
reviews help SEO over in the

602
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,200
chat.
So I'm curious if you could

603
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,400
expand on that a little bit.
Well, I'm not an SEO expert by

604
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,680
any stretch of the imagination,
but I believe that most of the

605
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,480
algorithms for the search
engines consider how things are

606
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,840
rated and how many reviews at
least something has.

607
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,480
And you know, since we're
talking about how to be

608
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,000
discoverable, I think that
that's a, it's probably an

609
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:36,040
undervalued way by some people.
Like I don't personally look at

610
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,800
ratings or reviews when I'm
looking for a podcast.

611
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,200
I typically find a podcast one
of three ways.

612
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,080
Either it's a personal
recommendation.

613
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,440
I've heard somebody talk about
the podcast somewhere else,

614
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,160
which not necessarily
recommended it, but it had

615
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,680
generated some buzz somewhere.
But the third way I tend to find

616
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,320
podcasts is by just Googling.
Hey, I'm looking for a podcast

617
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,640
about this topic.
And my understanding has always

618
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,000
been that that the ratings and,
and particularly the number of

619
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,480
reviews affect SEO.
But again, that's not my area of

620
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,400
expertise.
So I could be wrong on that.

621
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,040
But that's one of the things
that has been that I have heard

622
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,280
said in other communities and
platforms and just general talk

623
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,680
about SEO, not necessarily
specific to podcasting.

624
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:27,600
Yeah.
So I think what I think the way

625
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,320
I'm hearing this is ratings and
reviews, although according to

626
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,640
Pod news not considered on Apple
Podcasts specifically, it can

627
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,440
still be really valuable with
SEO on the standard search

628
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,240
engines like a Google, I think
is that.

629
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:46,040
Fair.
That's my understanding, yes.

630
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,120
Yeah, I think that makes sense.
And Nick, I know you're not an

631
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,440
SEO expert either, but I do know
that you love SEO.

632
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,240
Do you agree with that?
Disagree or?

633
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:59,760
Maybe not just just not sure.
I actually don't know.

634
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:05,560
I do know SEO looks at social
aspects and engagement for the

635
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,920
website.
So if people are sharing the

636
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,520
website or posting it on other
social media platforms like that

637
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,840
is a, a metric that they are
keeping track of.

638
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,400
So I would imagine ratings and
reviews would kind of follow a

639
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,840
similar deal because it is a, a
form of engagement with your

640
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,880
content.
I'd be curious where that where

641
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,880
that is affected.
Like is it affecting your show

642
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,360
like an Apple podcast linked to
a specific episode showing up on

643
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:36,960
Google?
Is it?

644
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,240
I have questions on that, but it
makes sense.

645
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,120
Maybe I'll I'll ask our friend
Tyler Perry a little bit about

646
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,840
that, 'cause I know SEO, even
though I've touted him as

647
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,760
somebody who knows a lot about
meta ads, he actually knows a

648
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,640
lot about SEO as.
Well, and has been working with

649
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,800
my Ironic Media website on that
and it's been making a big

650
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,280
difference.
So I'll have to ask him.

651
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,680
But Mike, I saw you came off.
Mike, what do you have to say?

652
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,440
Yeah, Yeah.
Generally, I think when I use

653
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,240
Google to find a podcast or look
for information, it leads me to

654
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:15,520
a specific episode.
But you know, if you follow Gary

655
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,640
Vee, he's been talking a lot
recently about social media and

656
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,600
how the algorithms are changing
and how followers and your

657
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,080
actual social network are less
important, he said.

658
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,600
We probably recently I heard him
say we probably should change

659
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:34,480
the term from social media to
interest media because TikTok

660
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,920
has changed everything.
And what people are finding now

661
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,160
is they're searching for things
is not necessarily based on

662
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,440
follows and that type of thing,
but how closely aligned with

663
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,000
their interests or their
specific question that a topic

664
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,280
is.
So that's one reason why he's

665
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,360
talking about, you know, you
should be putting out 10 or 15

666
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,560
pieces of content literally a
day.

667
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,200
And if you look at his stuff,
it's not all highly produced

668
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,240
stuff.
A lot of it is.

669
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,720
Pretty low quality stuff.
He shot 15 seconds on his cell

670
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:07,280
phone, but he puts it out there
and it's hard to argue with the

671
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,720
success that Gary's had.
Yeah, it is hard to argue and

672
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:15,560
it, you know, I think the common
argument is that most people

673
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,560
don't have the team or the time
that Gary Vee does.

674
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,080
Even though yes his some of his
content can look pretty low

675
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,320
quality, I still think that.
A lot of people don't have that.

676
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,360
Luxury that he has.
But yeah, he, he worked it, he

677
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,840
grinded, he did all the things
he was, he went through the, the

678
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,960
evolution of being a content
creator and here he is now.

679
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,200
And like you said it.
Is hard to disagree with, what

680
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,480
with with what he's shown as to
be successful, but I just think

681
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,520
it can be really challenging for
most people to put out 10 to 15

682
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,440
pieces of content every day.
Well, you know, might be, but I

683
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,400
think sometimes because we want
our podcast to be so high

684
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:01,120
quality, we miss a lot of
opportunity just to get stuff

685
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,840
out there because volume is is a
huge thing.

686
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,480
I mean, if you put out 20 pieces
of content a day and one of them

687
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,080
hits, that could make your
career if it you.

688
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:13,200
Know true.
I'm with you.

689
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,520
I'm with you, Mike.
Not arguing against Gary V and

690
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,400
what he's purporting, you know,
to, to post as much as you can,

691
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:25,400
but I also just want to say he's
built up his following over

692
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,560
years.
I mean, he, he did it when the

693
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,720
Internet was a smaller place,
when social media platforms were

694
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:34,840
more prone to organic growth and
all that.

695
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,880
So I, I just want to call out,
you know, the not comparing our

696
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:45,800
results to somebody who's, who's
already established and the, the

697
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,520
spiders and, and everything are
already liking his content.

698
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,560
You know, I appreciate what
you're saying and sometimes I

699
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,320
feel that way.
I think about successful people

700
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,120
out there in social media or in
podcasting who are sharing their

701
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,200
strategies.
Here's or, or or tips right

702
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:08,040
here's how to grow your podcast
or here's how to get a lot of

703
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,600
engagement on your social media.
I feel like it's a little, for

704
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,960
lack of a better term, a little
skewed because most of those

705
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,880
people have found that success
already and have an active

706
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,880
following already.
And So what they're applying, I

707
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,800
feel like works great for for an
established social media account

708
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,520
or an established podcast, but
for one that is just getting

709
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,640
started or one that's having
trouble establishing their

710
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,600
community, establishing their
audience.

711
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,720
It's hard.
Those some of those tips and

712
00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:44,960
tricks just don't apply to you
yet because you're still

713
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,960
struggling just to get somebody
to comment on your post or to

714
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,320
leave you that first review.
Sometimes I think it's not that

715
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,520
the gurus quote, UN quote are
giving bad advice because

716
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,200
they're sharing what works for
them.

717
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,760
But I think that sometimes
people just take that as the

718
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,240
gospel and that's just that's
going to work for me if it

719
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:07,960
worked for them.
And I don't believe that's

720
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,920
always the case.
Yeah.

721
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,640
And the, the main caution I want
to put out there is just, you

722
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,040
know, the the comparanoia, I
call it.

723
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,160
I love that when we're comparing
ourselves, especially to

724
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:22,880
somebody who is at a different
stage of their business and

725
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,800
journey.
Michael, did you have something

726
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,080
else?
Yeah, there's just one quick

727
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,320
thing.
I hear what you guys are saying,

728
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,640
but I think when Gary's talking
about that advice, he's talking

729
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,840
about for new creators and it's
not going to work for everybody

730
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,840
and certainly has it.
He has a big audience.

731
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,640
And you know, as big as big a
content creator as Pat Flynn is,

732
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,840
he was recently interviewed by
Gary Vee on what not, which is a

733
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,160
new social media selling type of
app that Gary's big on.

734
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:58,360
But but when Pat started Deep
Pocket Monsters which is a

735
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:03,200
Pokémon themed YouTube channel,
yes people that followed him at

736
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,280
SPI knew about it.
But that's not what happened and

737
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:13,640
he got some incredible number of
views in the 1st 300 days. 10s

738
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,080
of millions of views with a
brand new audience that really

739
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,360
didn't know who Pat Flynn was.
You typically don't find

740
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,560
entrepreneurs that are into
Pokémon.

741
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,160
And I think Deepak and Monsters
now is getting more views than

742
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,720
his original channel and all of
that.

743
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:32,600
And he kind of approached it
without using his team other

744
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,360
than maybe a videographer
somebody to should help him

745
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,680
shoot some video.
But I think if you really dig

746
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,200
into it, is it going to work for
everybody?

747
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,960
No.
Does somebody like Gary Vee or

748
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,320
Pat Flynn have an advantage?
Sure.

749
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,040
But the strategies that those
guys are talking about are

750
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:54,280
really designed for the small
business owners, entrepreneurs,

751
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,920
not just podcasters, could be
real estate agents or whatever

752
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,040
the case is.
And I think don't be too quick

753
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:05,520
to dismiss what they're saying
simply by going, oh, they're

754
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,120
already big.
What they say doesn't apply to

755
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,600
me.
I don't think that that's the

756
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,880
case at all.
That's my personal opinion.

757
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,200
And I certainly, I'm not trying
to imply that that's the way it

758
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,400
is across the board.
And I do think that some

759
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,600
strategies that they're sharing,
yes, they're designed for the

760
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,600
smaller creator and they can
work for the the smaller

761
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,520
creator.
And I believe that the reverse,

762
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,840
the opposite, can also be the
case.

763
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,000
Yvonne.
No, I'm not.

764
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,480
I'm, I don't want you to
misunderstand me, Michael.

765
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,040
I'm not saying that their advice
is bad or anything.

766
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,320
I'm saying we all need to
protect our headspace as

767
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:47,360
independent podcasters who are
on the smaller side with if we

768
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:52,240
don't get the results that
they're saying are possible,

769
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,000
that OK, we'll just take it with
a grain of salt that you're on

770
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,080
your own journey.
Absolutely.

771
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,000
And Jonathan, did you want to
add something?

772
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,720
I just want to say there are
some things that we can take

773
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:07,680
away from the big creators, and
I don't want one of them to be

774
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,240
post 10 times a day because that
leads to burnout.

775
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:15,560
It leads to crap content.
It leads to you struggling to

776
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:19,160
show up as yourself in your
content.

777
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,760
But things like recording
yourself doing stuff like Gary

778
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:28,480
Vee does is absolutely a gold
like gold nugget that you should

779
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,280
be pulling from him.
And yeah, the more you post, the

780
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,800
quicker you're going to grow,
but you also have to balance.

781
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,240
You've got a podcast, you've got
your job, you've got other

782
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,720
things that are more important
than creating content.

783
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:43,960
You're not a content creator.
You are, you know, a business

784
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,080
owner.
So I just want to caution

785
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,920
against going all in on 10 posts
and stuff like that.

786
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,200
And I get what Michael's saying,
but I just want to make sure you

787
00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:03,000
know that that you set your own
journey and create doable goals.

788
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:08,320
Yeah, and the way that Pat Flynn
found his recent success with

789
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:13,320
his Pokémon channel, his
strategies in some cases are

790
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,000
going to be very different from
Gary Vees and vice versa, right?

791
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,400
And this is where we get into
finding something that resonates

792
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,920
with you when you hear about it
and trying it and going all in

793
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,000
on that.
And then assessing how did it

794
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,840
work for you and if it worked,
well, awesome, double down on

795
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,720
it.
If it didn't work, look for the

796
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:35,800
next thing that some of these
successful creators are sharing

797
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,600
and apply it and see if that
does any better for you.

798
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:43,960
Amanda, good to see you and good
to have you here.

799
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,400
What did you want to add?
Good morning.

800
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,560
I love that everything that
Michael is saying, and I'm a

801
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:54,480
huge content absorber of Gary
Vee and I think doing the 10

802
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,640
pieces of contents, the easy
part, what's the hard part is

803
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,200
the work after.
And I remember, and this would

804
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:05,080
have been years ago, Gary Vee
said he would physically spend

805
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,320
hours of his time commenting
back to these people who are

806
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,520
taking the time to comment to
him until it became physically

807
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,480
like just the amount of time, he
just couldn't physically do it

808
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,720
anymore.
No human being could respond to

809
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:21,080
all the things that he needed to
do.

810
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,560
And when I was on my journey
just to grow my just my TikTok,

811
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,040
the amount of time that I put
in, I'm just trying to hit some

812
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,800
milestones.
I was so consumed and I did

813
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,960
become exhausted.
So to Jonathan's point, you do

814
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,040
get that contact exhaustion
where you just might not want to

815
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,600
put out anything for three weeks
because you diligently put out

816
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,440
10 things for 30 days.
And then what good is that?

817
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:51,000
So I think there's you have to
find your middle ground that

818
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,640
feels comfortable.
So you're doing intentional

819
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,640
postings, intentional engaging
because I think without either

820
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,680
or you're nothing.
Yep, thank you, Amanda.

821
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,520
And I think that personal
experience really resonates.

822
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,400
It really hits home.
It can get exhausting.

823
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,200
And again, it's not the only
only answer to growing, whether

824
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,000
it's social media or podcasting.
And like you said, you got to

825
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,760
just find your.
What works best for you?

826
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,600
Did anyone else want to comment
on this 'cause I do want to also

827
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,360
get into some of the other
platforms and how they're

828
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,880
ranking.
Spotify apparently ranks podcast

829
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,840
based on unique daily streams
per episode.

830
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,280
A single listener streaming
multiple times only counts once,

831
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,920
so they can keep pressing play
on the same episode, but it's

832
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:41,840
only going to count as one
stream.

833
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,080
And you can call it a stream,
you can call it a play.

834
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,480
The bottom line is it's it's
based on somebody hitting that

835
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:54,160
play button and it does not say
anything about ratings as far as

836
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,000
Spotify goes and how they are
ranking podcasts.

837
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,040
So I find that that interesting
too.

838
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,960
But again, to what we were
saying earlier, I think social

839
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:09,040
proof is very powerful.
And even if it's not going to be

840
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,480
to your advantage
algorithmically, I think it's to

841
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:16,240
your advantage in other ways.
And then YouTube kind of throws

842
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:20,400
everything for a loop here
because they calculate rankings

843
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,440
using total watch or listen
time.

844
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,360
We'll call it Watch Time For
because that's the proper way to

845
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,400
say it for YouTube, I suppose.
Longer episodes.

846
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,880
Can rank higher even with fewer
listeners.

847
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,760
Because if fewer listeners are
on that, but they are listening

848
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,480
to the vast majority or in the
entire thing, YouTube is going

849
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,720
to favor that and move you up
the ranks.

850
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:46,880
That really throws us for a
loop, right?

851
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,600
I mean, it does for me because I
really believe that a podcast

852
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:55,480
really can be very successful at
20 to 30 minutes long on average

853
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,600
each episode.
But there are a lot of podcasts

854
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,720
out there that are doing at
least an hour and maybe more,

855
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,760
and that might be to their
advantage on a YouTube platform.

856
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,120
So that might throw throw you
for a loop.

857
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:12,400
But ultimately, I think the way
to reason that in your head is

858
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,920
to ask yourself, is my content
audio first or is it video

859
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,320
first?
If you are a video first

860
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:24,040
podcast, then if you're playing
the game, maybe consider longer

861
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,560
episodes and focus on that niche
audience and getting it in front

862
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:32,440
of that that niche audience.
Because again, number of actual

863
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,000
viewers isn't really what's the
factor here.

864
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,560
It's how long they're actually
listening or watching.

865
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,320
Yeah, Mike, go ahead.
Interestingly, this just popped

866
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:45,800
into my head, but all of those
rankings appear to me to be

867
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:50,560
similar to the way broadcast
media has done it for years.

868
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,600
It doesn't matter how good or
crappy ATV Show had it mattered

869
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,120
how many viewers it had, because
that's what mattered to

870
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,120
advertisers.
And it seems like all of these

871
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,840
kind of our, the rankings are
based on the same criteria where

872
00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:08,120
I don't know if it's designed
for potential advertisers or

873
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:13,160
sponsors, but it seems to fall
in line with old media, you

874
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,120
know, the Nielsen ratings and
that type of thing.

875
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:19,640
Didn't matter how the show was
regarded by viewers as a quality

876
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,600
show or critics.
It just mattered how many people

877
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,000
saw it.
It is interesting and we talked

878
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,880
about how the world of
podcasting because even though

879
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,920
it's been around for over 20
years, it's still kind of feels

880
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,840
like the Wild West.
And when it came to be, when it

881
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,680
came to fruition, it was
adopting a lot of the behaviors

882
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,680
from traditional media like TV
and radio.

883
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,440
And I'll just quickly share
'cause I want to actually expand

884
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,760
on that with you, Mike.
Good Pods being the other

885
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,120
platform I wanted to share.
They compile their charts based

886
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,120
on a combination of user
engagement metrics within its

887
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,560
pet platform.
Podcasts are ranked by factors

888
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:05,760
like listens, ratings, comments,
subscriptions and shares all

889
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,760
within that specific platform
just like the others, right?

890
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,680
Apple's only paying attention to
activity within their platform.

891
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,480
And same with Spotify, same with
YouTube.

892
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,400
So the question is to your
point, Mike, and you can answer

893
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,280
or if somebody else wants to,
that's fine.

894
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,640
How should this work?
What's what do we think is the

895
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,680
most important things that these
platforms should be paying

896
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:34,160
attention to and would that help
us smaller creators rank higher?

897
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,600
What is the most important
factor?

898
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:38,640
Mike, do you want to take a stab
at it?

899
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:42,440
If you got to decide if you're
at let's say Apple and you get

900
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,880
to decide all right, how does
this algorithm work?

901
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,480
How are we going to rank these
shows?

902
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,400
What are some that you some of
the factors you would consider?

903
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,280
I think if I were one of those
platforms where people

904
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,120
downloaded, I would probably do
it about the way that they're

905
00:53:56,120 --> 00:54:00,480
doing it because when it comes
down to it, they're all

906
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:06,640
businesses and they're trying to
trying to maximize the value of

907
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,040
what they're putting out.
And to me it's, it's the hard

908
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:14,160
numbers as opposed to how
people, how people view it.

909
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:17,400
And quite frankly, a lot of
times the most focal people that

910
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:23,320
are most likely to review or
rank, maybe not the most likely,

911
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:28,440
but I would say you have more
listeners who like your show but

912
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:33,560
don't comment or or review it,
they might subscribe.

913
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,720
I would say a much lower
percentage than people that are

914
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:39,720
unhappy want to vocalize why
they're unhappy.

915
00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:42,760
So I think they're probably
doing it the way I would do it

916
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,800
if I were one of those media.
That's fair.

917
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,080
And yeah, I think it's something
like less than 10%.

918
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:54,000
When you're talking radio, less
than 10% of the actual audience

919
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,080
is actually participating and
engaging with that radio show.

920
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,560
So if you're talking like a
morning show, however many

921
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,520
listeners they have, there's a
very, there's very few of them

922
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,280
that are actually calling in.
Even though you feel like maybe

923
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,120
on those morning shows, you
know, they are going through

924
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:13,040
their phone lines left and right
and have so many listeners.

925
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,760
Well, that's or so many callers.
That's because they have

926
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,680
probably a ton of listeners, but
there's really a low percentage

927
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,400
of them that are actually
participating.

928
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:25,640
And I do believe that holds true
in podcasting, Youtubing,

929
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:27,640
etcetera.
Sid, I'm going to give you the

930
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:28,880
final word.
Go for it.

931
00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:33,880
And to answer the question, I
would like to see them track

932
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:39,440
loyalty, meaning not just people
that follow your show, but like

933
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,840
how many times do I come back
and listen to a new episode and

934
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,440
are you on my regular playlist
kind of thing, right?

935
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,640
Like the loyalty of the listener
to come back every time you drop

936
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,320
an episode.
I like that.

937
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,880
That's yeah.
I wonder if that could actually

938
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,360
be possible, if they could do
that.

939
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,960
I'm sure they could.
I think that would be you.

940
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,280
May track everything else that
you do in the world.

941
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:04,880
Yeah, they should.
Right, they should.

942
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:09,640
How?
Many times I click ABC podcast

943
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,360
to play at each week right.
Yeah, Yeah, they should.

944
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,200
All right.
Well, thank you all that was, I

945
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,240
appreciate that discussion.
And I think at least now we, at

946
00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:21,120
the very least, I hope you have
a better understanding of how

947
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:26,400
the chart algorithms work.
I'm I, I'm wondering if that

948
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,680
will influence anyone and how
they're putting out their

949
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:30,840
content based on what we've
heard so far.

950
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,000
I don't think it will.
I think that similar to what Sid

951
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,600
said, I think what's most
important is that we're putting

952
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,800
out content that makes an impact
on our audience, no matter what

953
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,960
the size is.
And I think if we're developing

954
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,400
content for our for our audience
with them in mind and what makes

955
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:53,440
them tick, what interests them,
I think that is the recipe for a

956
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,960
successful podcast.
So we are back tomorrow, 7:00 AM

957
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,360
Eastern Time, and we will be
covering all the headlines

958
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,120
around the world of podcasting.
The podcast show in London

959
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,360
happened last week.
That's the big convention out in

960
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,640
Europe.
It's the biggest in Europe for

961
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,680
podcasting.
There are lots that happened

962
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,600
there that I know we will be
covering tomorrow, along with

963
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:19,920
all the other tools, new tools,
new tips, new information in the

964
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,680
world of podcasting.
We'll cover it tomorrow, 7:00 AM

965
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:24,800
Eastern.
So come join us then.

966
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,920
And until then, make it a great
day.

967
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:29,040
Everybody, take care.