Ep 225 | Winning Sales Strategies for Leaders: Embracing Hybrid Selling for Success with Randy Chaffee

Randy: can do as salespeople is just shut up.

you know, listen more to begin with, but sometimes shut up and not buy the sales back. Well, after you ask for the order, 

Harry: don't talk.

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-3: Are you looking to improve your sales without resorting to pushy tactics? 

Welcome to sales made easy. The podcast that helps you to achieve better sales results and gain long lasting clients through relational selling. 

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-4: Let's get right into

Harry: What's a good word with me today? I've got a good friend of mine, Randy Chaffee.

Randy Chaffee. if you don't know Randy, he is a guy you want to know. He is a sales expert by far. He has, over 20 years, of experience in sales. He is a trusted voice in the metal roofing, post frame and metal building industry.

He is an owner of Source One Marketing and he helps build brands and relationships that lasts. I know he's the host of Building Wins Live, and Randy is also the author of Asphalt and Algorithms, [00:01:00] A Road Warriors Playbook for Winning Results in the Hybrid Sales Arena.

How do you come up with a name like that? Randy, I'm so glad you started with that one, Harry, because this is a funny thing and there's a story to this that goes beyond just how this happened.

Randy: And so I'm gonna start here and go backwards, because when you hire people. That are better than you, which is what we ought to do, You should listen to them as well. 

video1803091719: Agreed. 

Randy: So when I hit a point where I knew I needed an editor. I also felt I needed a marketing team to put together the cover, the formatting, help me, I mean, I know marketing and I know how to market my products.

I wasn't an expert on marketing books. And so as we got into this, we went through the whole editing process, We got through that. And then I was with my team on a Zoom. So I had Victoria and Richard who were the marketing team, and I had Gail, my editor, and they said, so Randy, we got something we need to talk about with you.

All right? And they said, we [00:02:00] wanna talk about the title. 'cause my original title was My Journey to Hybrid. 'cause I talk about hybrid selling, right? Old school, new school and how you hybrid it. They led me through several things about what they didn't like. They said, we don't hate the title, but listen to us as experts. We don't think it's going to resonate or you want it to resonate? 

So I thought about it overnight. The more I thought about it, I said something to my wife who runs my office and she goes, well, I'm glad somebody told you that. 'cause I never liked that title to begin with. Okay, great. Always asked to your wife. Yeah, exactly. But she was never gonna tell me that for obvious reasons. 'cause she saw how married I was to that title. So I thought about it and Harry, I called him back the next day. I told Rich, I said, I think I'm okay with that new title. He goes, Nope. Call me tomorrow. I go, whoa, whoa. What? He goes, you think isn't good enough?

You gotta talk about this every day for the rest of your life. You gotta love it and you want to, you gotta [00:03:00] say it and love it and mean it. Okay? Fair enough. The next day I was fully sold. 

The title, it's a Road Warriors Playbook for Winning Results in the Hybrid Sales Arena. So I got my hybrid in there, so they gave me a little, you know, to feel good about. So I didn't get a total loss. But that's where the name come up with. But it really hinges Harry on. I'm an old school guy.

You were very kind with 20 some years. It's, I use taglines all the time, four plus decades, which is. semi a lie, because if I'm really super truthful, it it's, it's five decades. because I'm old and I started young. 

Well, I try to stay in shape. I like living a healthy lifestyle. My goal with this book is to take all the years of the old school road warrior, you know, the rental cars and the airports and kissing babies and bro hugging and pizza pie lunches and burgers and brew skis, and literally building relationships.

then we hit the COVID world, In the COVID world, something happened to me [00:04:00] from a standpoint of one, I can't travel, I started doing some podcast guesting.

Then I decided to do my own podcast. There'd be a way to be in front of my potential customers and my customers. I started doing a lot of social media. Downtime took a lot longer than we thought.

And then here you, the real, coming to Jesus part of this, if you will, was when I started hearing people say, I'm not gonna do any of that crazy junk you're doing. I'm just gonna wait until we go back to the old way. And then I had other people saying, we're never gonna travel again. nobody's getting on an airplane from New York City and flying to Dallas do a deal and come back.

It's all gonna be in front of a computer screen on a zoom. Well, I didn't buy that either. In most sales and certainly in my industry, which is the metal roofing and post rain building world we're very people oriented. So that's when I started this concept in my mind of why don't we hybrid these two together?

How do I find a way to still live that old school way to the relationships, learning their baby's names and learning that their kid played softball [00:05:00] last week, developing those relationships, but also do it on a bigger scale where you can, force multiply your efforts, which is what we do with social, we do with virtual and all that.

That's really what started, down the road of the hybrid concept, thus asphalt and algorithms made sense because the asphalt is part of the highway, right? The road and algorithms is what it is. 

We are doing both at the same time. Literally by the minute, by the hour. Right. So that's my long version. 

Harry: Did we even use the word algorithms until, 2020 and after?

It is like, we use it all the time now that the algorithms aren't friendly you're trying to get the algorithms to help you out a little bit, but man, I don't think I even use that word. what about you?

Randy: Oh, absolutely. I agree. I didn't even know what that word meant. Right. Okay. Thank you. and on top of it, I told, my team, I said, you do have a problem. But I said, you gotta understand.

I can't spell asphalt [00:06:00] or algorithm without spell check. it's a good thing for spell check because lately with the launch of my book, I've been doing a lot of posting, right? So I'm spelling it a million times a day and luckily I get the asphalt part.

you're supposed to be this writer guy, You probably shouldn't spell the title of your book wrong in a post, 

Harry: Yes. But you and I, we are both authors, but we probably didn't major in English, in college and it was, we're happy to use the English language, but calling us, Experts on writing is probably not where we are. Right? Is that safe to say? No. 

Randy: that is safe to say, I believe me.

I can butcher it with the best of people and, which is why I quickly decided that I'm not gonna self edit this thing because. I don't wanna, I mean, I'm capable of looking dumb on my own pretty well. I don't need any help. if I self-edit this thing that looks good to me, I mean, there's stuff that doesn't click in my dumb little head, like there, [00:07:00] T-H-E-I-R is the IRE.

Hell, I don't know if it, if spell check doesn't fix it, I'm screwed. Right. 

video1803091719: Yeah. 

Randy: So I got give a shout out. To Gail Ner, the savvy Red Pen my editor and my God, did she keep me out of trouble? but she also never challenged my voice. she never pushed back with how, I wanna say what I wanna say in the voice.

I wanna say it in. I'm just gonna fix either grammatical errors. I'm gonna, Yeah. I don't know why you don't have a comma there. There ought to be a comma there. But she challenged me too, which I liked.

video1803091719: Yeah. 

Randy: Like there's a couple times where, okay, you gotta reread these paragraphs. I highlighted because she said, Randy, I have no clue what that means. And I wrote back and read and I said, why you not. I don't either. Good call. We probably should 

Harry: fix that. So did you write mostly off of memory? I mean, was there any research you had to do or is it just like all stories and memory from stuff?

Randy: This book is a very easy read and it's not even theory. It's really [00:08:00] my playbook of literally what I've done my life.

I start out the first chapter, I start when I'm eight years old on the farm with my dad and my mom. and lessons I learned, out in the fields, pulling weeds at night, wondering why we're pulling weeds at night. the lessons I learned from my dad. then I transfer through my career into current day and how I use the different, platforms, why I use the different platforms, but equally all the time trying to stay focused on the importance of still, if we're talking to each other here and, or, Hey, we've met together for lunch before.

Actually, I think I owe you next time. I think you bought last time, but if you forget, that's okay. And I think that's important that whether we're talking on some kind of other podcast platform, whether we're talking on the phone or we're talking in person.

Or if you come and watch somebody speak at an event, if I'm speaking at an event we get done and you come up and introduce yourself, it should be the same person. So many people, I think, make a mistake. They got their sales persona and then they [00:09:00] got their private life persona.

And I don't know, maybe some people are better and smarter than I, but I'm not good at carrying that off, number One. I just, I am who I am. And you get what you get and, hopefully you like me, but if you don't, then that's I guess what you get too, right?

Harry: Well, you know, this is an interesting topic, Randy. I mean, you're clearly who you are. I really like you. I think you're awesome. No joke. It's like when I see you on a podcast or if I see you on social media, on video, or if I see you in person 100% all the time, you are Randy Chaffee right? 

Yep. I just was literally having this conversation today. a person was a very quiet individual and he said, should I get, because I was coaching him for speaking and he said, should I bring the energy? Should I be doing anything different when I speak? I'm like, if you want people to listen to you.

I said, you think Tony [00:10:00] Robbins always got this crazy outrageous personality, or does he have to get amped up to be on stage like that? I said, you know the answer, he gets amped up. some people struggle with that because they view it as not being who they really are. 

Right. But in my mind, This is my speaking persona. It's still me. It's still Harry Spaight but it's Harry Spaight speaking, Meditating is also a persona. doing Tai Chi or yoga is also part of my persona, Harry Spaight Making sales calls is part of my persona. Doesn't mean I am not the real deal. It means there are just different aspects of my. personas

Randy: What's your thought on this? so spot on Harry, because you're right, we have numerous personas in my case.

you have multiple [00:11:00] Personas. I think you gotta let the speaking one come out if you're speaking, because you're right, nobody is going to come to listen to you do a talk and you're just droning on and sort of this dull, who cares?

nobody wants to hear that. I would say it's Harry Then there's Harry 2.0 outright, excitable Randy out because I love what I'm talking about. I'm passionate about talking about it. 

video1803091719: Yeah. 

Randy: but if I, whether I'm on a podcast like we are now or doing a talk somewhere, if I use that same personality or persona in a sales call, especially with certain customers that are not, receptive.

That can be a big turnoff. You gotta find that self. There's numerous tentacles to that self, whatever that is. But you also gotta understand your customer or your audience.

It's like, Randy, I please settle down. I just don't want all that. I'm not that excited about the screws you sell. That's just not that exciting to [00:12:00] me. Okay, so ease down, big boy, right? if you learn your customer, your prospect. there's the customer that wants all those details, but then there's others that I don't want no details really.

I just want the benefits. I don't even care about the features. Are you telling me it's good? Yes, I am. Then I wanna know what this is gonna do for me. What you as a salesman's gonna do for me? What's your company is gonna do for me? Because I've had enough features already.

Well, if you keep wanting to hammer that stuff, you're gonna lose 'em. One of the best things we can do as salespeople is just shut up.

you know, listen more to begin with, but sometimes shut up and not buy the sales back. Well, after you ask for the order, 

Harry: don't talk. I know the order is given. Right? Exactly. 

Randy: I learned it with somebody that is long, long, long ago in my career, an early company I did some work with and we called on this company The widget is not important, but the widget that we were selling, you could buy six three at a, you know, to put in, or we would give you one as a sample [00:13:00] These two brothers that own this company are talking about whether should we do two, but it's a savings. If we buy six and we'll probably sell, they're back and forth. right? But the owner of this company, he finally couldn't take it. And he goes, you know what? Rather than you guys trying to figure it out, why don't we just send you in a sample and let's put it on the floor and see what happens.

I'm going, we got in a car and I told him, You do realize what you Did. Now we gave away one that we may never sell another one. It's like, but he said, but they just having a hard time. And I go, let them argue amongst themselves because there was no argument about sample three or six. I think that stems from the fact that either by training or by perception of what the sales world is, a lot of young guys and gals that get into sales think we have to talk a lot with the customer we have to listen twice as much as we talk, right?

Mm-hmm. and understand that the purpose of this thing is not for me just to get a sale. [00:14:00] Of course that's the ultimate game, right? That's how we make our living. But we gotta put together the right deal for the customer that makes sense for the customer. Because in the B2B world, which is where I operate, I'm not just Interested in this sale today. What I'm interested in is next week, next month, next year, and even more so, Harry, Is the referrals you give me the recommendations you gimme. And that's the only way you do that is you, maybe I sacrifice today to get you into the right program.

Harry: So what is the, asphalt algorithms book cover? So if someone is out here listening, they say, okay, this guy's obviously a road warrior.

He is, busy on social media, but what's the guts of the book about? 

Randy: The real guts is I'm gonna, because I believe in relationships, because I believe in. Some past and learning from the past. I will take you back to my early days and what I learned on the farm.

I'll take you back to that for the first couple, three chapters. [00:15:00] But then we start wandering into the old school way of selling that I grew up on. but the real guts of the. Is, and it's really more of, as we use in the, in the subtitle playbook, it's, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you the things that I've developed, that I've done, that's been very successful for me on how I've went from maintaining that old school relationship, doing all the old school stuff, right?

The relationship building stuff. But then. how do we put social media and virtual, digital, whatever terms we wanna use, if we're not careful, get, a bit less personal, right? Mm-hmm. And so I'm a big believer on anything that you do. from the digital aspect, let's call it, we need to maintain that personal relationship.

People wanna know who we are, you know, people buy from who they know, like trust, and feel safe with, right? 

video1803091719: Yeah. 

Randy: and the only way we develop that is by building those relationships. What I walk you through as a playbook of what I've done. [00:16:00] I'm not telling you, you gotta do this and then do this, and then do this.

I'm gonna walk you through things that I've done, why I've done them, the mistakes I've made, the things that I found that worked and didn't work, to really maintain this old school road warrior relationship guy, but also doing it in a virtual world. people will grasp the idea that I need to be that old school way of doing things. 'cause that still exists. But I also can force multiply all that by using social and digital and virtual and all these things that we lump together. 

It's not one or the other. It's not like today's a virtual day. Or Today's an old school day. 

Yeah, 

it's in and out all day long. You know, we're doing virtual right now. This would be called new school. literally before we got on today, I'm working from home today, but I'm making phone calls. You remember that thing? shooting texts to customers, emails, customer, getting literature sent to somebody.

having my people send some samples out. when I'm on the road, [00:17:00] people ask me to talk. Walk and talk in the airport. trade shows. Oh my God. I talk a lot about trade shows.

Trade shows don't start the day. You roll into town and you're going, where's my buddies? And the closest bar. Yeah. Some people do that. Yeah. I'm not saying I never have. Not saying that I wouldn't. Again, what I'm saying is that as part of my philosophy with this is I'm talking about trade shows right now that are six, seven months out right now.

You start making plans and Roll in as the wave when you get into town. I'm in town, here's the cityscape. Where's everybody at? 

Stop and see me, you know, all those things that you can do. And then go grab people on the show floor and chat with 'em, chat with vendors, even as long as they're not like maybe direct competitors, you may not wanna do that. customers that are there and be part of the show, and not just show up when the show hall opened or 20 minutes late because you ended up a little longer at breakfast.

So that's really, at the end of the day, my [00:18:00] goal, right now, what I'm talking about, anything you read in this book right here is stuff that I'm doing that very day. Every single day. What was the reason? Everybody the why is important, right? Yeah, totally. And there's really two why's. There's probably a third, 'cause it does, let's face it, add to your ability to do other things as far as speaking and things like that, I enjoy doing. As soon as I had a copy in my hand, because the real reason I wrote it was for my dad. My dad's been gone 30 years, taught me a ton. And I just decided that nothing else in my life I'm gonna leave if I print one book and leave it on the coffee stand, and with a dedication to my dad and I did it for him.

At the end of the day, that's a success. And then the second reason is, if you have any bit of success at all, you've had a lot of people that helped in that. Mentors, whether they meant to be or didn't mean to be. But you did have people that served that purpose.

Advisors, mentors, coaches, sales [00:19:00] trainers, I just felt this industry's been very good to me and I just felt a desire to give back. If you could pick up one little thing that helps. That's a success to me. If you're a young person going, oh, I can get on way better than Randy can and figure out digital and figure out all that stuff, but if you didn't figure out the personal part, the relationship part, you're still gonna fail or not be as successful as you could.

Harry: in today's world, people catch on a word like authenticity and they say, well, the real me is, I don't like talking to people.

I prefer to be quiet. I don't really wanna dress. in the corporate world, and I've got, you know, I wanna wear jeans and a t-shirt, but I'm gonna be in the corporate world calling on these people. It's like your emotional intelligence. Randy would look at that person and say, yeah, you don't get it.

You might be great on social media, but you're wondering to use the social media term, why your conversion rates are [00:20:00] terrible. When you go into a trade show, you know the trade show jargon? You know how to act at a trade show. When you go into a corporate office, you know how to act in a corporate office.

When you go into a, small networking function, you know how to act there. You cannot be just. Who you want to be at home on the sofa with nobody in the room and expect that that personality is gonna win the room. Exactly. And I think this is where a lot of newer people are really good on social and really good on marketing are completely missing opportunities because they latched onto the word authenticity.

And don't know how to be authentic real with emotional intelligence in the room. 

Randy: Absolutely. the emotional intelligence is so important because it goes back to what you said so well [00:21:00] earlier, Harry, was that we all have different personas.

Now, I can't be Harry. Okay. You can't be me because we'll come off as fate trying to be what we're not. 

video1803091719: Yeah. 

Randy: But we, like you said, so Well, I think it was brilliant that we have more than one personality Unless you're one of those younger folks, I suppose that grew up in this social world only and that's the only thing they see.

So you, I think you, you're so right. You stay within and this just popped in my head and I think about some other things that I talk about from time to time, but used to be, we talked about thinking out of the box.

I feel like sometimes you gotta see no box at all, or you gotta beat the crap out of the box. You gotta stay within the persona, Randy, or the personas of Harry. But if you don't recognize and realize that you have multiple personalities, you better figure 'em out.

Harry: Yeah. 

Randy: I don't have to get, Showtime, Randy, when I [00:22:00] get to a trade show, But after 300 trade shows, plus in my life, I know what it takes and I know what that persona is expected, but more so. I enjoy that persona.

I enjoy being a people guy. Right. I enjoy just being out there with the folks. we had the proverbial green room, right. the backstage where if you're waiting before a guest comes on.

the producer comes and said, we're going out in 30 seconds.

And they button up their shirt quick and they go, okay. And then they just switched gears. Now when they walk out that door and they hear the applause start 

And they see him sitting there by the desk. The guy they know and love and not this guy that I wish I wasn't even here. I wish I didn't even have to put this polo shirt on because I'd rather just have jeans on, And my point to that is sometimes I will sit there in the hotel, go get ready and go, Joe, Tom, Randy, baby, let's go. and I envision myself walking out the door and that's Johnny Carson sitting there, right? 'cause it is showtime, it's time not to be fake.

I agree. Because you can't pull off fake. Any of us could pull off fake for a while. Part of a day or [00:23:00] a day, or it might even fake a trade show, but long term, we can't be who we are. That's why, like you said, the emotional intelligence will allow you to grasp, understand you have several personalities and, would I be in a corporate boardroom with everybody in suits and ties and act the way I would act at the host hotel bar at a trade show?

Probably not. Right? I mean, I might, you never know what I might do, but it'd be 

Harry: most likely you're gonna mirror what's in the room. 

Randy: Exactly. you have to mirror. That's a great point and one that a lot of people don't understand and would find, bad maybe. But there's nothing wrong with mirroring from the standpoint of I gotta enter your world.

Exactly. I can't expect you to come to my world. Yeah. You're gonna get a little in my world, whether you like it or not, because that's the only world I have. Yeah, but I gotta mirror your world a little bit but yeah, it's good stuff. the purpose of the book is I really wanna take people from old school into total new school and back to a hybrid [00:24:00] version.

that's a combination of both. if you operate as a true hybrid road warrior, which is what I consider myself, you're gonna be in and out at a moment's notice all day long.

as you train yourself and you get better at doing that, it's automatic. I have a lot of plain folks in my world. the Amish Mennonite community, massively different than a corporate boardroom. Right? Now I'm a little bit older, but I got a lot of experience, so you have to be able to make that transition.

Harry: Exactly. 

Randy: You know what, and sometimes it transitions dress, sometimes it transitions the way you conduct yourself. so I think even with this transition from virtual digital, all the high tech stuff to the old school, having a burger to beer in the evening, all those are part of the overall picture.

If you master to be able to get in and out, in and out, in and out on a regular basis. And the beautiful thing is that now if, the Harry Spates and the Randy Chaffee of the world have anything to offer at all, I can offer it to three or four or five people [00:25:00] today if I'm traveling old school way, or we can offer it to thousands of people due to virtual.

Harry: Right. 

Randy: So you just force multiply your efforts. I love it. So that's, the bottom line. it's been a fun journey, I'll tell you. And you wrote books already. This is my first, I'm, I'm silly person. My wife would say other words. But, I'm already writing another book before I even had this in hardly even published.

But, I've learned to love the process, I'm blessed to write a lot of articles for a lot of trade magazines in my industry.

Yeah. Very easy for me. 1500. 2000 words. I'll have one done for you, and it'll probably be pretty good. Because I know the industry, I know what I wanna say and I can sprint the a hundred yard dash or a 2000 word on a subject. But this whole process of putting this book together, staying focused, keeping things in the right order, Giving you more than I can't give you 12 pages. was a challenge for me. And one I didn't always like, but [00:26:00] the near I got to getting it done. And now that it's actually done, published and people are buying it, I like the whole process.

I learned again, we talked about, whether you're old school or new school, and when to change, when to dive in, when to dive out. I learned a lot about myself when it comes from a writing standpoint that, I have to get in the right mode.

And then when I'm in it, I could write three, chapters in a night. And then I would go. Two and a half, three weeks and I can't write any, I would just stop and not do it. but my stick toit has always been there at the end of the day.

there's a couple times where, it's not that important. You don't need to do it. Most important person, you gotta manage it yourself. So true. And you know how I manage myself the most is whenever I felt like I might be backing off a little, that's when I doubled or tripled down on making posts about my book.

Working on my book. because I forced myself to be What the last thing [00:27:00] my. Persona can tolerate would be for I meet up with you and our mutual friend Jeff Forster. for lunch. and one of you guys says, by the way, whatever happened with your book?

Ah, yeah. I gave up on it. Right. See, that would be so embarrassing and discouraging for me that I forced without anybody knowing it, everybody that would follow me. Without even doing anything kept me forward because I was not going to embarrass myself by not doing it. 

Harry: Yeah. Randy, Where can people find more about Randy Chaffee and get this book that we've been talking about? Asphalt and algorithms.

Randy: That's it, buddy. You can, so me any on any of this platforms, I'm pretty much under, Randy Chaffey. If you just put Randy Chaffey, you'll find me. sometimes it's the Randy Chaffee. Sometimes it's, Randy Chaffee, the rep, but, you know, I'm on TikTok, I'm on reels and Facebook and LinkedIn and it's Fred's and somewhere else.

I do a lot of stuff. [00:28:00] the book is on Amazon right now. Yeah. So right now it's on Amazon. You and everybody knows how to do that. Just type in asphalt and algorithms or my name. 

It's kind of exciting, but, it's real man. It's real. Holy crap is there. so right now I have, an ebook and the soft cover, which is in my hand here. I hate the way virtual works. The virtual background screws up. 

But, Probably in about two weeks I'll have the hard coverup also available. Nice. And my goal is probably in the fall to do an audio. Okay. and I'm spacing them out One, I don't have time right now for the audio. I'm gonna read the audio myself if I do it. 

It gets me a chance to do this whole thing over again. Big announcement, big deal. that's the one fun thing about this type of, what I've done with this book, is that I can be incredibly vocal about what I'm doing because that's what I'm telling you to do in the book.

So I'm just living it, Over the last couple days, people that are jumping on saying, Hey, I just bought your book. Can't wait to read it. I says, love it. Thank you so much, blah, blah, blah. Make sure to post a picture of the book. That's what I'm talking about. You gotta let people know what you're doing. Eventually it'll be available on my website. I buy from ad.com, which if anybody wants to find out what I do from a rep agency standpoint, it says, I [00:29:00] buy from ad.com.

the book will be available there through an e-commerce eventually, which, so somebody is silly enough to want to take the. $16 99 cent, soft copy and turn it into value of zero and have me sign it. they can get it there, 

Harry: Randy, I appreciate you. We'll put a link in the show notes for, one of these places. We'll get it from you and then, okay. Yeah, I'll send Ben a blast. My man. All the appreciate and your ventures keep up the great work. Keep inspiring my friend. 

Randy: Thank you, my friend.

Appreciate you, Harry.

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