April 12, 2025
Ep 132: Overhaul Your Web Copy: Secrets to High-Impact Messaging THAT SELLS | Guest Expert: Caitlin Lang
Are you hiding your website URL because it's not bringing in clients? You're not alone. Most service businesses are making two critical messaging mistakes that prevent their beautiful websites from converting visitors into paying clients.
In this illuminating conversation with website expert Caitlin Lang, founder of Liquid Form Design, we dive deep into the psychology of website copy that actually sells. Rather than leading with photos of yourself or vague aspirational statements, Caitlin reveals how to position yourself as "the painkiller" your ideal clients are desperately seeking.
The magic happens when you speak directly to your dream clients' emotional state and pain points before quickly transitioning to the transformation you provide. As Theodore Levitt wisely noted, "People don't want to buy a quarter-inch drill, they want a quarter-inch hole." Your website needs to sell outcomes, not services.
We explore the elements of a conversion-focused homepage, from powerful headlines that spark emotional connection to strategically placed testimonials that address common objections. Caitlin shares specific prompts for exit interviews that generate testimonials with selling power, plus frameworks for crafting copy that converts – including AI prompts you can steal.
Surprisingly, most website visitors never leave your homepage, making those first few sections critical for conversion. Learn how to structure your content with scannable headlines, proper hierarchy, and mobile optimization that maintains impact across all devices.
Whether your current website is gathering digital dust or you're embarrassed to share your URL, this episode provides the exact strategies you need to transform your web presence into a client-generating machine. Don't miss Caitlin's frameworks, examples, and actionable advice that will have leads flowing from your website without requiring giant marketing budgets or huge teams.
Ready to create a website that actually sells for you? Download the show notes for Caitlin's recommended resources, and subscribe to Tiny Marketing for more actionable strategies that help B2B service businesses do more with less.
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01:34 - Welcome to Tiny Marketing
02:02 - Introducing Caitlin Lang: Website Expert
04:10 - The Biggest Website Messaging Mistakes
08:19 - The Power of Niching in Service Businesses
13:26 - Creating Emotional Connections Through Copy
20:53 - Elements of a Conversion-Focused Homepage
29:39 - Writing Powerful Testimonials That Sell
41:56 - Social Proof and Authentic Client Wins
47:51 - Caitlin's New Newsletter and Closing Thoughts
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Welcome to Tiny Marketing.
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This is Sarah Norrell-Block, and this is a podcast that helps B2B service businesses do more with less.
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Learn lean, actionable, organic marketing strategies you can implement today.
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No fluff, just powerful growth tactics that work.
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Ready to scale smarter?
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Hit that subscribe button and start growing your business with Tiny Marketing.
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Growing your business with tiny marketing.
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I've got DMs blowing up right now inside of the tiny marketing club asking the same question Is my website supposed to sell for me?
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Because it's not.
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Well, good news.
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Today's guest is Caitlin Lang.
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She is the founder of Liquid Form Design.
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She's a one-stop shop for branding website and copy that actually converts, especially for women-owned service businesses.
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A lot of you that are listening actually do work.
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Actually sell for you.
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The two biggest messaging mistakes most service providers make what your homepage needs in order to convert traffic to clients, how to speak directly to your dream clients, emotions and pain points.
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And Caitlin is not holding back.
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She's dropping frameworks, client examples, even AI prompts that you can steal.
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So if you've got a gorgeous site that's gathering dust and not converting clients, or you're hiding your URL like it's a bad axe, this is your episode, hi.
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I'm Caitlin Lang.
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I'm the founder of Liquid Form Design.
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I do branding and websites for women-owned service businesses and I am a one-stop shop for all things branding web design, which means I also do the copy, because I think that the words in your website are just as important as the visuals.
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To make sure you sell and that's what we're going to be talking about today yes, sell with your website and that is so important.
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So many people come into Tiny Marketing Club and they're like is your website supposed to sell?
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Because I've been doing it.
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Yeah, and I want if people work with you and get all the awesome marketing expertise that you're bringing and people are getting driven to someone's website, then I want that website to then convert and sell.
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Yeah it should, it should sell for you.
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You should be getting inbound leads if you're doing it right, so let's first get into what are the biggest mistakes that people are making with their messaging.
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I think the two biggest things I see the most in service provider websites and my expertise is in service provider websites I'm not going to go into everybody that listens to this show is in the provider websites and my expertise is in service provider websites.
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I'm not going to go into-.
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Everybody that listens to this show is in the service space, Okay good.
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So with service providers, the one I see the most is someone will lead their homepage with a big, beautiful photo of themselves and copy this as something like hi, I'm Caitlin, I'm an amazing graphic designer and I do this kind of branding work and it's what a lot of people do.
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So people just keep doing it.
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But when you're just talking about yourself, your target client can't see themselves in what you're offering, and there are lots of great graphic designers who do branding for these kinds of industries.
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It's not differentiating.
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So that's one.
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The second one and this is really common with coaches and therapists and I mean a lot of different service businesses will there be a beautiful nature photo and a vague aspirational quote or statement that says something like unlock the authentic nature of your brand.
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And what does that mean?
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Right, what does it mean?
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It's too vague.
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You're not speaking to your.
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You know your target clients' pain points and you just you see a lot of sites like that and they all start looking the same, and so it's really hard then to you're not differentiating yourself and you're not.
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You can't sell if you don't, if the person doesn't even know what you're selling.
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So those are the the two biggest problems that I see, and I'm sure that you've seen a lot of those.
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I've witnessed those exact things.
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It's on so many websites and usually when someone enters the tiny marketing club, the first thing I do is that strategic spark and I'm like, I'm not going to lie, I don't understand what you're doing, what you provide based off of the copy on that website.
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Yes, the number of times I've gone to a service provider's website and I have no idea what they're selling or what they do, it's just, it's constant.
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And so what you want to do instead is you want to show that you understand your target client's pain points.
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You want to speak directly to them and you want to position yourself as the painkiller that they've been looking for.
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And so I was so excited this morning when I went to your website.
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I knew this would be true, but I went to your website this morning and looked it up and you're doing exactly this.
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You have a headline I have it pulled up.
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It says imagine you're the only choice for your ideal customer.
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So people want that.
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They want to be the only choice.
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So they're going to see themselves immediately in that headline.
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And then you have this great subhead that says it's possible even without gigantic marketing budgets and huge teams.
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So there you're showing them.
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You understand them.
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You see their fear that they won't be able to achieve the result they want with a small team, but you're telling them that it is possible.
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So people read that.
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They immediately recognize themselves, they recognize you as a person who's uniquely positioned to help them and they want to work with you and I so yeah, but I was thinking about did you hear this?
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I forget the actual subject, but Pia's podcast, an OBS podcast.
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She had a this.
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One of her guests was talking about the marketing expert, harvard.
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What's his name?
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I wrote it down Theodore Levitt from Harvard Business School and he said people don't want to buy a quarter inch drill, they want a quarter inch hole.
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So you want to sell the results.
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You're not selling your services, you're selling the results that your services will provide.
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Yes, yes, I have heard that phrase before, that like don't talk about features, talk about the benefits.
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What are you getting in the end?
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Because if I can't understand what my outcome is going to be at the end of working with you, I'm not going to hire you, because that's all I want.
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Is that final?
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outcome, yeah, yeah.
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So we want to have that in the main banner of your homepage and ideally also in the definitely the next section.
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I sometimes even have the first three sections of the website based on that focus on target clients, pain points and the results they're going to get.
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And so how do we do that?
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Yes, first we need to know who we're talking to, so I don't want to open the whole niching can of worms.
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Open it a little bit, just like a little bit.
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A little bit.
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I think you know people are afraid of niching.
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I don't know how many Open it a little bit, just like back the lid.
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Back the lid a little bit.
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I think you know people are afraid of niching.
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They're afraid that if they go too narrow they're not going to have any clients.
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I have found personally that when I niched to work so I've been doing this for 25 years I used to say that I could do anything for everyone, which is technically true, and for a while that actually did kind of work for me for some reason.
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But when the market got rougher sorry, were you going to say something?
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I was going to say at the beginning of starting your career.
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I think that works because you're trying to figure out who you are.
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It's like you're an adolescent and you're discovering who you are, and the same goes for a business.
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But I 100% agree with you that the more narrow you get, the much easier it is to get leads.
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Yeah Well, and I think also earlier in my career, when my prices were lower and I was more hungry and I was willing to also sacrifice more of my soul and my revenue to get the job, it didn't matter as much.
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But as I've gotten, as I've gained expertise, as my prices have gotten higher, it also it has worked better for me to niche too, because it just become more of an expert, it makes more sense to justify the prices I'm charging honestly too.
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But I found that as soon as I started saying specifically I work with women-owned service businesses, the floodgates open in terms of referrals.
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It was just easy for people to understand how to refer me who you know.
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It'd be easy for someone to think of a client for me, because it's just so specific a woman who owns a service business.
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So I think at the very least, when you're writing copy, you need to think about who like.
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I think the easiest thing is to think about who's your favorite client, who do you most want to work with, and then speak directly to that person, and it's just the more specific you can get, the more you're going to be able to, the more your target clients can be able to see themselves in your messaging and the more effective it's going to be.
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That's the bottom line 100% agree with that.
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When I'm doing like done for you services, that's the first thing I do is like I interview their favorite clients, so I literally pull the words out of their mouth and put it in the copy because it makes a huge difference and other people can see themselves.
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It allows you to clone those people.
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Yes, I think the misconception is that people have to go super specific, Like we both know someone who does branding specifically for women dentists and that's very specific and it doesn't need to be that specific.
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I mean, that's working for her, that's great.
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But you know, Pia was just one person's purpose businesses.
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Yours is just service B2B at a certain size, right, it's not industry.
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No, I do not go industry specific.
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I like to look at the specific challenge that I solve.
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Tiny marketing was born from small businesses that don't have a marketing department.
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They have like zero to two people marketing departments because they have very specific challenges that I solve.
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Marketing departments because they have very specific challenges that I solve Right.
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I think that leaning into that challenge that you solve makes niching a lot more interesting.
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And also people do think industry when they think of niching and that can get really boring.
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Yes, I agree, I'm industry agnostic also.
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I'll work in industry.
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It's just, it's mainly the size and service or just being a service business.
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But, um, I think that that's but I mean for you.
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I mean, even though that niche might sound broad, who you're working with is still really different from you know a gigantic tech company or you know something really corporate, so it is absolutely yeah, yeah, the like when I was at a point in my business where I was just taking whatever would come my way.
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I noticed that the best results came from those people that were experiencing that exact challenge.
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So then, it made it easier for me to be able to do that, because they would want to refer me more and I also knew exactly how to solve that problem.
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Yeah, and the more jobs you do that way for that kind of person or that client, the more you're honing your own expertise and the more valuable you're becoming.
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Yeah, which is the other fun thing about niching is you just get better and better at what you're doing.
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You get so much better at it.
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That's true.
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Yes, I just I feel like I, when my clients come to me, I already like I already know so much about them before I've even talked to them, Because there is, there is so much similarity between women in this, in the same size of business, working as service providers.
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Yeah, and we also all have similar personalities in that you have to be a certain way to live that life.
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That's true too, so anyway.
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So yeah, I think that some level of niching is important.
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I think you you have to make some choices there, and the other thing is you don't have to.
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You don't have to turn people away if it sounds interesting.
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If someone comes to you outside of your niche, you can still say yes, it say yes.
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It doesn't have to be super limiting, but anyway.
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So I have a gateway offer, similar to your strategic spark, called the Branding Roadmap, where I start with a 90-minute interview.
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I have all these questions about where someone's been, where they are now, where they want to go, their target audience.
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But the real meat of that interview, the part that I come back to over and over again when I'm working on the brand and messaging, is the questions about their target clients' pain points and the problems that they solve and how they're uniquely positioned to be helpful.
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So I wrote down a few prompts that are sort of a distillation of the questions I ask from my branding roadmap that I think are most helpful in figuring this out and how best to position yourself as a painkiller with your website copy.
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So I think you want to ask what's the emotional state of your target client when they come looking for you, what frustrations are they experiencing right now?
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What changes after they work with you, what becomes possible, what problem goes away?
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And I think focusing on the emotions how are they feeling before they work with you and how are they feeling after is really powerful, and that's it's hopping into those emotions, which is how you connect with your client and make them really want to work with you.
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And going back to yours, it's just, it is really emotional.
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Imagine you're the only choice for your ideal customer.
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You really feel that when you read that, and then it's possible, that that sense of hope, even without gigantic marketing budgets and huge teams.
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I just love how you tap into again, like you tap into their fear that they don't have a big enough marketing budget.
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So you're with just those three simple sentences, you're hitting all those points.
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What are their fears?
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How do they feel now?
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How are they going to feel after working with you?
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And just feel that sense of relief.
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And so the idea with all of this is that they're going to read that, those opening lines in your homepage, and they're going to feel relief.
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They're going to say, oh, she gets it, she understands what I'm going through and she's going to help me.
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Yeah, and one thing that I want to just mention on that is I'm taking objections like the objections that I would get on a sales call.
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I don't have a team to be able to run this and making sure that it's woven into my messaging, so I'm addressing them ahead of time.
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Yes, absolutely so.
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Yeah, what I like to do is in that first main hero banner on the homepage is have a couple of simple lines, like you have, speaking to a little bit of pain and the solution, always drilling down on the solution and the outcome.
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And then in the next sections, people are afraid to talk about a pain point and they want it to all be rainbows and put an A before they wouldn't meet you and yeah, but it really.
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People really do want to feel heard and understood.
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The second banner I think it's really important to speak to your target client's pain points in a couple of sentences.
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Don't hang out there too long.
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Just a couple sentences saying you get it and then go straight in to the solution that you're going to provide and how you're the person to solve their problems.
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Yes, yeah, I agree with you that a lot of people are afraid and, honestly, messaging can lean too much into the pain.
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There is a too far on that, so you have to really toe the line to make it effective, without like wallowing in the problem.
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Well, again, I think you do that really well on your website because it's really brief but it's effective.
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You say long sales cycles, missed opportunities and burnout are done.
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So you just in that one sentence, you name three possible pain points people might be feeling, and then the next paragraph, you go straight into how you are going to fix it.
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And that's exactly how I like to do it, where you just touch on it briefly, show that you care, that you understand, and then show how you're going to make it better.
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So you say, with a tiny marketing approach, you know exactly what your customer cares about, how to talk about it and how to reach them, and together we're going to work this out, how to talk about it and how to reach them, and together we're going to work this out.
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Yeah, yeah, and it also shows like empathy.
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I have been there, I understand where you're coming from and I've worked with people that are dealing with this too and brought them to the other side.
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So I think that everybody listening has to get less afraid of talking about the pain that they're going through, because that might be all they feel in that moment.
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They might not understand yet the solution that would get them to the other side, or what the other side even looks like.
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You have to think about the phase that they're in emotionally.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And also going back to thinking about those homepages where it's a picture of the service provider and then just hi, I'm Caitlin and I do these awesome things.
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It also reminds me that I think that you want to think of every section of your website as a selling opportunity.
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So even the about page where you're talking about yourself still should be.
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Here's my story.
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But this is how that's helpful for you.
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This is how my story and my expertise and all the awesome things I can do.
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This is why it's important to you and this is how it's going to help you and still help you get the result that you want.
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So I think every section should be referring back to your target client in some way.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I like to look at about pages as almost like a case study of like this is what I went through and how I got to the other side, and now I can do that for you.
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Yes, yeah, that's a really good way to look at it.
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Have any like specific frameworks that someone could work through for their about page?
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for the about page.
00:17:37.261 --> 00:17:37.323
Um.
00:17:37.323 --> 00:17:59.087
Well, so I I really um, there's so much on linkedin um about you know, ai taking over and being a disaster, but I think it's such a great brainstorming I love me, I yeah, it's a great way to just get some ideas out there, and so I like to use ai from the beginning, and so if you start with the home page and you've already put in you know if you're trying, if you start with the homepage and you've already put in you know if you're trying, if you use AI, to start brainstorming some headlines and some copy for the problem results section or website.
00:17:59.087 --> 00:18:01.108
You've already got some great content in there.
00:18:01.108 --> 00:18:06.532
And now here I want to remind you about the problems that my target clients might be facing.
00:18:06.532 --> 00:18:26.531
How does my story help my target client and can you weave together a bio that brings in these different touch points, so my story and then how it can help my clients' lives improve?
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:29.208
Yeah, that's a good way to look at it.
00:18:29.208 --> 00:18:36.848
It's storytelling, but you're pulling your ideal client through that story.
00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:51.319
Yes, yeah, and I think the important thing with AI, too, is to really look at it as a tool and not the end-all be-all not the writer here, so I think that that's the key and to use it for ideas.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:19:00.586
What I love about it the most is that, because of AI, I never am staring at a blank page, so there's none of that banging my head against the wall because I can't think of the right word situation.
00:19:00.586 --> 00:19:06.651
So it can help me just iterate quickly and usually get me where I want to go or just give me the idea to write the thing myself.
00:19:06.651 --> 00:19:14.936
But it is just really helpful to just throw spaghetti at the wall and figure out which messaging resonates and go from there.
00:19:14.997 --> 00:19:38.692
Yeah, if you, like you were saying that you interview your clients ahead of time and I interview my clients' customers, if you can keep those transcripts and put them in there, that will help a lot too, because now you're feeding the information to the AI and it's able to give you an output that makes much more sense than it would if you're just, you know, giving a prompt.
00:19:39.593 --> 00:19:42.800
It's true, yeah, it's, yeah, it needs.
00:19:42.800 --> 00:19:46.951
It's still the AI still needs a lot of handholding and guiding, absolutely.
00:19:47.180 --> 00:19:50.570
It's not like I think of AI as a workhorse.
00:19:50.570 --> 00:20:05.188
It's not creative, it's not strategic, but it is a really cheap assistant and it will do a lot of things for you, but it won't do the brain work because it's using information that already exists in the world.
00:20:05.950 --> 00:20:11.726
Yes, and so then, with every time I enter in anything, I always remind it no jargon, no cliches.
00:20:11.965 --> 00:20:16.094
Yeah, you can set your settings too, so it never does any of that.
00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:19.827
Yes, but I do find it's still so easy to throw stuff in.
00:20:19.827 --> 00:20:21.152
I do feel like I have to remind it.
00:20:21.339 --> 00:20:22.943
I have to reteach too.
00:20:22.943 --> 00:20:29.964
I create a lot of custom GPTs and sometimes I'm like I think that you've forgotten what I teach you.
00:20:29.964 --> 00:20:31.188
Yes, let's relearn it.
00:20:31.188 --> 00:20:36.087
Can you go back to the source files and relearn this?
00:20:36.729 --> 00:20:39.125
Yes, yeah, you have to still be really vigilant.
00:20:39.125 --> 00:20:41.967
And it is interesting, everyone's saying it's just going to get better and better.
00:20:41.967 --> 00:20:48.218
But if we keep creating more and more generic content with it, is it going to get better and better?
00:20:48.218 --> 00:20:50.027
It's going to get more generic.
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:51.501
That's valid.
00:20:51.501 --> 00:20:57.614
I think the better you are at engineering your GPTs, the better the output will be.
00:20:58.099 --> 00:21:16.364
But again, that puts you in the creative and the strategic seat, while the AI is the workhorse, right, right right, because I worry about the young people, because I'm an old lady and I learned to write in the nineties and so I already know how to write, I already know how to think, and so, yeah, I don't.
00:21:16.364 --> 00:21:24.525
I have a teenage son and I don't know how that's going to work out for him if he's learning to write now with chat GPT as his assistant.
00:21:24.525 --> 00:21:24.885
I don't know.
00:21:24.885 --> 00:21:25.885
It'll be interesting to see.
00:21:26.186 --> 00:21:31.951
Yeah yeah, my kids are learning how to use AI right now in school.
00:21:31.951 --> 00:21:34.555
That's like one of the things that's right.
00:21:34.835 --> 00:21:35.996
Yeah, that's great.
00:21:35.996 --> 00:21:36.957
My kid is not.
00:21:36.957 --> 00:21:38.465
We were just talking about that at breakfast the other day.
00:21:38.465 --> 00:21:38.988
They're not.
00:21:38.988 --> 00:21:41.165
They're very head in the sand at my kid's high school.
00:21:41.666 --> 00:21:42.249
Crazy.
00:21:42.249 --> 00:21:47.208
I know Everybody who's so like anti-AI.
00:21:47.208 --> 00:21:54.089
I'm like you evolve or die, that's just how it is, and AI it's a good day, so evolve or die.
00:22:00.619 --> 00:22:04.328
I completely agree, but luckily, for now, it still does need us and it still does need our strategic minds and to know what to feed it.
00:22:04.328 --> 00:22:14.702
And so that's where these prompts come in is making sure that you keep referring back to the emotions and you know these sorts of ideas that still a human needs to tell it to do.
00:22:14.843 --> 00:22:15.884
Yeah, it's humans.
00:22:15.884 --> 00:22:28.365
Buying and messaging is all about psychology and understanding the process someone is going through emotionally, as they're going through a problem and needing to get to the other side of it.
00:22:29.105 --> 00:22:30.167
Yeah, it's true.
00:22:30.167 --> 00:22:37.003
Are these similar prompts that you use when you're doing your marketing messaging?
00:22:38.767 --> 00:22:39.949
Yeah, pretty similar.
00:22:39.949 --> 00:22:53.413
I definitely feed in the transcripts and I pre-built the custom GP3s, so the way I like, the output is already done.
00:22:54.355 --> 00:22:54.675
Yeah.
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:56.424
But the prompts are pretty similar.
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