What Keeps a Professional Audience Hooked

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Good morning podcasting, Morning
Chat.

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Today is Thursday, November
13th, 2025.

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And today it's another podcast
evaluation and we're

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spotlighting exam room
nutrition.

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We'll explore storytelling,
flow, clarity, the stuff every

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creator can use to make their
show more engaging.

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So if you're listening live on
Clubhouse, hit the share button,

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bottom left hand, side of the
screen and share it.

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However Clubhouse lets you.
And if you're catching us via

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podcast chatter, YouTube,
Facebook, share this with the

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fellow podcaster, please.
And now give us about 30

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seconds.
We'll get things rolling.

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Thanks for being here.
Good morning again podcasting.

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Morning, Chad.
Thanks so much for being here.

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I am your host Mark Ronick and
on stage with me.

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Another pretty full house this
morning.

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We have producer Ashley Feller,
Sid Meadows, Dr. Faye Feel

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better, Nick Naul back and also
Ralph Steep is joining us as

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well this morning as a guest
moderator.

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And Cliff Ravenscraft is here as
well joining us.

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And I knew Cliff, one of the Ogs
in podcasting.

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I knew he was going to join us
one day this week.

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And what a great episode to join
us this morning.

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Having a podcast OG podcaster OG
in the room.

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I think this will be a really
valuable conversation.

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So welcome to Cliff and Ralph
and all the gang as well this

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morning.
Let's dig in.

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Today we're going to evaluate as
we've been doing every Thursday

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now for the past month.
This is our 4th Thursday in a

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row doing our podcast
evaluations.

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And they're, it's starting to
grow in popularity.

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I think we've now had a total of
10 applications, including the

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ones that we've already
evaluated.

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But it seems to be picking up
and I'm promoting it a little

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bit more on social media as
well.

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And people seem to be
gravitating to the idea.

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Colleen, the host, Colleen Sloan
was one of those people.

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I promoted it on I'm sorry,
LinkedIn a couple weeks ago.

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And she was one of the first to
respond.

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So exam room nutrition.
She is a healthcare professional

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herself.
I believe she's APA and a

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registered nurse.
I believe she's also, but I

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could be wrong about the
registered nurse part.

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But I also know she is a
dietitian and this show, her

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target audience is actually for
healthcare professionals,

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including doctors, physician
assistants, nurses, etcetera.

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And the podcast, she says this
is her description, which we'll

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dig into in a moment.
But her description reads where

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busy clinicians learn actionable
nutrition tips, explore ways to

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provide nutrition counseling
despite A hectic schedule with

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limited time, and learn to
answer your patients nutrition

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questions with confidence and
compassion.

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So what I thought we would do
first because, you know, we're

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still kind of getting our feet
wet with how we do the format.

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And I think the the best way to
start, just for our audience

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alone, I think it's going to be
important to play at least the

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very beginning, the intro, if
you will.

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This is again Exam Room
Nutrition hosted by Colleen

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Sloan.
You know what a carnivore is,

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You know what an herbivore or an
omnivore is.

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But would I stump you if I asked
what's a nutrivore?

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I'm Colleen APA, dietitian and
your nutrition mentor.

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Welcome to the Exam Room
Nutrition Podcast, your guide to

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giving better nutrition advice.
OK, I just wanted to give you a

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little taste of the opening so
we can all get to know this

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podcast.
Those who maybe haven't listened

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yet, what were your first
impressions when you hit play on

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this episode?
Ralph, you want to go first?

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Go ahead.
Good morning.

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Yes, good morning.
Thank you.

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You know, I, my first
impressions were that she's

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reading a script and I don't
want that to, to be a negative

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effect on the whole thing
because I thought the episode

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was excellent.
But my first initial impression,

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I was out walking the dog this
morning listening to this and

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that was my first thing is she's
reading something and I'm

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disconnecting already.
Fair enough.

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I mean, we know that a lot of
podcasters definitely do some

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scripting, and it's even more
common, I think, at those very

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at the very beginning for those
introductions.

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And I definitely sensed that as
well.

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Ralph, I felt like, yeah, she's
reading from a script, but and

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she hasn't a friendly, warm tone
to her voice.

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So I think I was able to get
past it easily.

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In other words, there were
inflections.

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It wasn't a monotone read by any
stretch.

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Sid, did you want to add in
something?

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Go ahead.
Good morning.

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I thought she sounded, I thought
she sounded confident.

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I liked the music.
She was very, her voice was very

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clear.
I mean, she sounds like she's

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been podcasting for a long time,
regardless of the fact that

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she's actually reading an intro
script.

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I thought she sounded very
confident and clear and like an

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experienced podcaster.
I would agree with you and I

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believe this is yeah episode
123.

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So she certainly has had some
experience in podcasting and

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good on her for moving on and I
think she's got now it's even

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more than that, around 140
episodes.

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So she is all in on her podcast
and kudos to her.

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I agree she did sound
professional, confident, which

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is all important.
And again, yes, I'm with Ralph.

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It did sound feel a little
scripted but I thought she did a

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nice job with the read.
What about since she

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specifically asked for it and
I'll share this is the She asked

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specifically for feedback on her
intro and outro clarity and

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effectiveness.
She wants feedback on her

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overall audio quality, her
pacing, engagement, and content

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delivery.
So how do we feel overall about

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her audio quality?
Now, I'm not going to sit and

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play the whole episode for our
audience.

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You can do that on your own time
if you'd like.

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But to our team who has listened
through to the episode since she

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wanted to know, what do we think
of her audio quality, Go ahead,

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DRI.
Heard just a little slight

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reverb going on that when she's
talking with her guest it

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becomes more apparent because
her guest does not have any

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reverb that I heard.
So you know, just a simple run

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through Adobe or a Phonic would
fix that.

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Yeah.
And I think that reverb or echo

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I, it sounded to me like it was
the room that she was in.

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It sounded like her voice was
bouncing off the walls a little

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bit.
It it still sounded clear.

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But you know, as podcast
producers, we hear those little

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nuances and we can find some
ways to improve it.

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We'll share that with you if we
find those ways.

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Yeah, thank you, Dr. I'm with
you there.

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I did notice just to be real.
And again, this is with my

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producer hat on.
I don't know how much a Gen. a

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general audience would notice,
but throughout the episode, I

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definitely could hear places
where there were some edits,

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like a little bit too hard of a
cut here and there.

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Didn't sound as smooth as it
could in spots.

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Not all the way through, but in
spots.

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I heard that.
Now, Cliff has some feedback for

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us.
Let's go to Cliff.

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Good morning, Cliff, and
welcome.

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Thank you for being here.
Good morning Mark and Dr.

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addressed the actual echo that I
heard in the intro so I have not

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listened to the podcast episode.
I didn't know this was the

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format today, but I think it's
awesome.

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And I want to just say that the
very first thing I heard when I

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heard her voice was the sound of
her voice bouncing off the wall

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in the room.
And instantly that stood out to

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me as oh wow, OK, so is this
going to be good?

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However, that was offset by the
very professional sounding, what

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I would call hook at the
beginning of the episode.

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And I tend to think that a good
hook can be very much scripted

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and communicate, hey, what
you're going to get in this

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episode is this.
And I just want to praise the

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idea that as soon as I hit the
play button, I hear what the the

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topic or what why should I be
interested in this particular

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episode and continue to listen?
So I really love that she put

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that hook right there at the
beginning of the episode.

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I don't mind that she read it
off of the screen to keep it

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concise, to the point, get right
into it.

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And I also love the fact that
she started the conversation

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with that hook.
If I remember correctly, it was

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a formed in the question to me,
the listener.

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And I love that all of that took
place before she says, this is

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who I am and this is what my
podcast is.

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And so I, I just wanted to
praise that.

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But I did hear that echo that I
heard the room noise as soon as

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you hit play.
Thank you, Cliff.

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And yeah, I echo what you had to
say.

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It's actually, yeah, I have a
note here that I loved the tease

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at the very beginning, so thank
you for bringing that up.

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I may have just blown right by
that in my notes.

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Yeah, that's that was really
important to me.

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It really helped me connect
right away.

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I appreciate that when people
start with that hook or that

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tease rather than just starting
with the music, starting with

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the hi, welcome to blah blah
blah.

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Yeah, I'm with you there.
And Cliff, I've been talking

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about this lately, especially
during these evaluation

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episodes.
I want to hear your take because

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as I was saying to DRA moment
ago, we noticed these things

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like that echo the voice
bouncing off the walls.

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We noticed that as I'll call us
professional podcasters,

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experienced podcasters.
Do you think that it may,

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especially that her particular
episode, not just in general

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when we're talking about room
noise and echoing, but her, hers

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in general, do you think it was
that much of A distraction where

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her audience would be bothered
by it, or do you think it's more

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of a professional thing?
My thought on this is I didn't

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actually think of it from a
producer side of it.

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I I thought of it, I'm actually
asking myself would I want to

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listen to this?
And what I will tell you is that

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the quality of the echo and the
quality of the sound, it's

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definitely offset in a very
positive way by her professional

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tone and way of communicating.
So her, her communication style

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immediately helps me take my
mind away from the fact that I'm

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going to listen to her voice
with an echo of the room.

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But I will say that I'm just
from a listener of podcasts.

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I don't like to listen to a
podcast where the host of the

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show has an obvious room echo
that could be addressed if they

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were aware of it.
Now, I have absolute grace given

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to any guest.
So if a podcast host is

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interviewing somebody for an
entire hour and the guest speaks

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980 or 90% of the episode
content and they have a horrible

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room echo, I I will forgive that
because it's a guest.

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And of course a lot of it has to
do with the value of the content

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and the overall everything else.
But yeah, the audio quality does

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kind of bother me when there's a
room echo.

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If I'm want to be taking very
seriously and professionally,

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I'd want to get that out of
there.

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Yeah, thank you, Cliff.
And I see Sid wants to chime in

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as well.
Go ahead, Sid.

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Good morning, Cliff.
It's great to see you.

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Welcome back to the podcast
Morning Chat.

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You guys know I listen to a ton
of podcasts and I didn't even

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notice it.
Echo, I didn't notice it.

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Maybe it has to do with what
Phil talked about or excuse me,

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Cliff talked about as related to
how professional and how

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confident that she sounds.
I did not hear the echo and did

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not distract me.
I didn't even notice it was

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there.
And good point.

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And that's kind of what I was
getting at, right?

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Like I do think, and it's just
my opinion, but I do think that

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people like me, Cliff, Dr. Who
are producing podcasts or I know

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Cliff isn't doing that, but
Cliff has been so involved in

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helping podcasters that it's
just my opinion that people like

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us are just more sensitive to
it.

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Whereas Sid who even, yes, he is
an experienced podcaster as

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well, but I would almost
classify Sid as a professional

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podcast listener as well.
And if he didn't notice it that

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it gives me pause.
Well, I think it's important to

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00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,400
highlight a distinction here.
I don't listen to podcasts the

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00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,480
way you guys listen to.
Your ears are trained to hear

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00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,440
things because you're editing
shows all day long and you're

231
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,720
looking for those little nuances
to cut them out.

232
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,760
I don't listen that way.
I listen for the content.

233
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,040
I listen to learn.
I listen to be entertained and

234
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,280
to be engaged, right?
And so I'm listening completely

235
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:50,920
different.
If I had been trained as an

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00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,240
editor or if I did what you guys
do every day and listen for all

237
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,760
that stuff, then I would likely
pick up on all those.

238
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,440
Yeah, I agree.
Thank you for saying it more

239
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,200
clearly than I just did.
Appreciate that.

240
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,120
All right.
Can I add something real?

241
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:05,080
Quick.
Oh yeah, Go ahead, Cliff.

242
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:09,760
I, I do want to say that overall
I didn't, I haven't listened to

243
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:11,720
the body of the podcast
interview.

244
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,160
I only listened to the part that
you played here in the

245
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,280
clubhouse.
But I want to say it, it, it

246
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,520
didn't distract me at any point.
I said the quality of what she

247
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,360
was saying, how she was
communicating, it completely

248
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,040
erased in my mind the focus I
had.

249
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,560
But ironically, it was the very
first impression was the echo.

250
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,240
It was the very first
impression, and it was

251
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,920
immediately dropped by the
professionalism afterwards.

252
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,640
But the one thing that I would
say is if I'm 123 episodes into

253
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,960
the podcast, if this is
something that's a part of all

254
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,000
of them, not that it's harming
her so far.

255
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,880
I don't think it actually is
harming her at all, but it can

256
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,360
be completely eliminated with
some sound absorption.

257
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:56,880
Wherever she's recording, That's
it.

258
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,800
Yeah, thank you, Cliff.
Appreciate the clarification.

259
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,600
I hear you.
By the way, I'm laughing because

260
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,560
I see in the chat here that
Ashley is agreeing, right.

261
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,000
Ashley, I'm just going to go to
you.

262
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,760
You're you're comparing
musicians ears and podcasters

263
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,880
ears.
Would you mind sharing with with

264
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,240
our audience?
Oh yeah, I was just making a

265
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,320
comparison that, you know, when
you're an editor and you produce

266
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,520
all these shows, it's very
similar to being a seasoned

267
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,920
musician where you just over
time you pick up on things.

268
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,760
Agreed.
Let's keep it moving and let's

269
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,720
quickly talk about the episode.
I'm sorry, the series

270
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,040
description and then let's talk
a little bit about her episode

271
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,600
description as well.
So again, the series description

272
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,040
where busy clinicians learn
actionable nutrition tips,

273
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,680
explore ways to provide
nutrition counseling despite A

274
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,760
hectic schedule with limited
time, and learn to answer your

275
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,960
patients nutrition questions
with confidence and compassion.

276
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,040
I will give my first overall
impression, which is I

277
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,720
appreciate that it's short and
sweet, understanding right away

278
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,560
that this is for busy clinicians
that I believe they don't want

279
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,320
to sit there and read a long
book about the podcast.

280
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,920
They want to know, what am I
going to listen to?

281
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,240
What am I going to get out of
it?

282
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,560
So I think it for that reason, I
appreciate the short and sweet

283
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,800
response, the concise, I'm
sorry, not response, the concise

284
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,200
description.
I think it works well.

285
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,400
Anyone want to comment on that
or shall I continue forward?

286
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,200
What?
Because there's also the name

287
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:36,200
itself.
But yeah, clip.

288
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,200
Let's go to you on the
description and then let's see

289
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,960
what we think about Exam Room
Nutrition as a name for a

290
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,440
podcast.
I think the wording word for

291
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,520
word makes a lot of sense as a
front value proposition

292
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,200
statement that a person can read
on a website.

293
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:58,920
But in, if you will, it seems a
little clinical to speak out

294
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,720
loud.
I'm going to paraphrase this.

295
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,640
I'm so thankful to Ashley who
put the transcript of what she

296
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,200
actually says, but rather than
in the beginning of the episode,

297
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,960
this is a podcast where busy
clinicians learn actionable

298
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,880
nutritional to I'm stumbling
over just saying it now.

299
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,119
If I were to read it, it's not a
big deal.

300
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,359
I can actually read it and it's
no work problems.

301
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:26,040
So hey, welcome to this podcast.
If you're a busy clinician,

302
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,160
you're going to learn actionable
or I wouldn't even use, you're

303
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,080
going to, you're going to learn
nutrition tips that you can put

304
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,760
into place in your practice
today.

305
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,880
You're going to provide
counseling.

306
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,760
I would actually try to say that
more conversationally in a flow

307
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,680
of how you would speak that.
And so if anything, I would

308
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,440
speak more as a conversational
tone, the same message, but not

309
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,600
so precise words that I would
put in written form as a value

310
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,560
proposition on a website.
Thank you, Cliff.

311
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,920
Some good advice there.
Yeah, I see some of the

312
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,720
audiences agreeing as well.
Yeah, I like to write my

313
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,920
descriptions more
conversationally.

314
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,520
I want people to read it and
say, Oh yeah, that's Mark

315
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,320
talking to me.
I was going to say something a

316
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,840
little bit less coming from the
other direction.

317
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,760
I actually thought the
description was perfect if

318
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,120
you're a clinician.
But then when I listen to the

319
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,840
episode, I felt like the episode
wasn't really for a clinician.

320
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,200
It seemed to be like very
rudimentary information and I'm

321
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,320
not a nutrition expert by any
stretch, but I was kind of taken

322
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,680
back by that.
I thought the content was not

323
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,960
really suited towards a
clinician, but the description

324
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,360
and what I thought I was going
to get was.

325
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:37,360
So I was kind of disconnected in
that actually.

326
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,680
Thank you, Ralph.
Yeah, let's put a pin in that.

327
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,080
I agree and I think others might
agree as well.

328
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,720
So once we play a couple more
clips, let's get into that.

329
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,520
Let's talk about.
So let's everybody just start

330
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,960
thinking about, you know, the
target audience, which again,

331
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,560
healthcare professionals just
making it simple for you.

332
00:18:56,120 --> 00:19:00,840
And does the episode really
speak to that target audience?

333
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,920
So we will we will explore that
in a moment.

334
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,480
Any thoughts on exam room
nutrition?

335
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,560
The name of the podcast?
Good name.

336
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,080
Does it work well?
You think it will connect with

337
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,040
her target audience?
Could it be improved?

338
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,760
I don't think the title, the
name of the show actually

339
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,360
reaches for audience.
I understand what it means, but

340
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,480
I'm not sure that if you're
thinking about searching for

341
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,440
things that I'm as a clinician,
I'm going to search for exam

342
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,720
room nutrition.
I might search for nutrition.

343
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,200
So I think the name is maybe a
little bit confusing.

344
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,640
I understand what she's doing
and you know any when you're in

345
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,440
the exam room with your patient,
you can I'm going to empower you

346
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,280
with the tools and information
you need to talk about nutrition

347
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,160
to the patient.
I get that, but I just not sure

348
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,360
that the name is something that
is searchable enough that's

349
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:53,080
going to get her the audience
that she's really looking for.

350
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,720
Fair enough.
Yeah, I think maybe you know

351
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,760
where this is.
Clearly, the objective here is

352
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:04,720
to help healthcare professionals
communicate better nutrition to

353
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,560
their clients and be able to
answer better answer questions

354
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,480
more effectively that hurt their
clients have so.

355
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,120
She could be really simple and
say something like the

356
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,680
Clinician's Guide to Exam Room
Nutrition or the clinician's

357
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,160
guide to helping.
I don't know.

358
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,400
There's something there where
she could actually maybe put the

359
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,400
title of the audience, the
clinician in the name of the

360
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:29,760
audience.
She's me in her title.

361
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,120
Some way that they it may, it
may.

362
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,640
I'm stumbling over my words that
she may actually attract them

363
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,840
that way.
I agree, I don't think it

364
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,400
necessarily speaks directly to
what it is, who it's for.

365
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,840
Like you get an idea or a sense,
but if you just saw the name by

366
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,920
itself, would you really grasp
what it's about?

367
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,200
But I do think in this something
I think we should think about

368
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,960
and look at for future
evaluations.

369
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,520
I think the name by itself is
really difficult to just look at

370
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,160
that whilst we're going to talk
like SEO and keywords, that kind

371
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,440
of thing.
I think we need to pair the

372
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,840
title of the podcast with the
cover art as well because I feel

373
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,480
like that together paints a much
better picture.

374
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,040
When I see Exam Room Nutrition
and then I see the cover for the

375
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,640
podcast, that tells me a lot
more together than if you just

376
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,760
said Exam Room Nutrition.
Yeah, and these days the name of

377
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,400
your podcast alone doesn't
usually stand alone, right?

378
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,920
It's usually paired with your
cover art or it's paired with

379
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,440
your social media posts,
etcetera.

380
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,360
So there is usually a visual
that goes along with it that

381
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:43,240
yeah, I agree that can be
helpful.

382
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,960
And since you brought it up and
I don't want to go too far into

383
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,800
the cover art, partially because
I think her overall podcast

384
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,480
series cover art, I think it
works well.

385
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,360
My one suggestion is nutrition
is written in a script font,

386
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,840
which will be harder to read in
my opinion once you see it on

387
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,680
smaller screens.
I can make it out, but I might

388
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,360
learn more toward a more block
style font.

389
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,840
But I think the coloring's good.
I like that it's a photo of her,

390
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,080
but I see some other people want
to chime in and I'm just curious

391
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,240
what people think.
She has an actual background of

392
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,960
what appears to be her office or
an exam room office, something

393
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,840
like that.
I'm curious, do we like that or

394
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:34,200
do we like something more clean
with a just a neutral background

395
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,400
or a single color background,
something like that.

396
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,800
But with that, Dr., did you want
to chime in first?

397
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,040
Yeah, you just touched on it.
What I was going to say in the

398
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,720
beginning is that I think if it
were me, I would probably lose

399
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,480
that background because the
background is clashing with the

400
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,160
title.
I think the title has to be like

401
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,680
the star of the show.
I would switch up that

402
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,960
background.
I would do some SEO on that

403
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:03,760
title and also I would add a
subtitle like a, you know, an

404
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:09,520
extension even to drive it home
more that this is for doctors

405
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,520
who don't get that initial
education about nutrition.

406
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,080
So I would do something on that
line.

407
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,560
Yeah, that could very much help
to do that little tagline.

408
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,040
Agreed.
I'm going to go to Sid and I see

409
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,920
lots of people on a chime in
here.

410
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,720
So I'm going to go to Sid and
then we'll see how many more we

411
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,520
can get through before we play
actually play some clips from

412
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,880
the show.
I agree with Dr. that I think I

413
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,360
said this in my evaluation form
too.

414
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,080
If she just put a tagline
underneath the title, I think it

415
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,360
would help to provide some
clarity to what the actual show

416
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:43,600
is about.
I would like to see her picture

417
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,560
be a little bit more zoomed in
on her face or upper body,

418
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,480
right?
Then you can see her better

419
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,520
because we all like to know who
we're listening to and you know

420
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,920
that that image of the person
that we're listening to.

421
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,160
But I also think, you know, exam
room in the title.

422
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,240
I'd like to see her sitting on a
doctor's stool in an exam room.

423
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,080
We all know what a doctor still
looks like.

424
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,800
We all know what a traditional
exam room looks like.

425
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,040
I'd actually like she looks like
she's in the hallway.

426
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,560
I'd like to see her actually in
the exam room, sitting on a

427
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,760
doctor's stool, maybe leaned up
against the patient bed kind of

428
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,400
thing so that we get that VIB
VIB that image clearly.

429
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,320
Oh, she's in an exam room.
Fair enough.

430
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:21,160
Thank you.
Sid.

431
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,160
I'm going to keep moving.
I'm not going to comment on

432
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,400
everybody so that we can keep
things moving along.

433
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,240
Ashley, did you want to add
anything?

434
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,960
Yes, I would just say.
Reconsider a different color.

435
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,640
Other than yellow, especially at
the bottom, I think yellow is a

436
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,040
little bit harder on the eyes.
It's kind of hard to read what's

437
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,160
in that yellow box, and that's
all I got to say about that.

438
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,480
OK.
Thank you.

439
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,760
And Cliff, I'm going to check in
with you.

440
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,080
Go ahead.
I was just going to say that,

441
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,040
Sid said.
Mine put her on the stool in the

442
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,440
exam room with that little table
with the sink in the gloves up

443
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,960
on the wall behind her and and a
little bit more close up.

444
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,280
That's exactly what I was going
to say.

445
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,480
Great job, Sid.
Thank you, Cliff.

446
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,840
Ralph, I'm going to give you the
final word on this.

447
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,040
Yeah, I was going to say I would
add some kind of nutritional

448
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,640
element to her cover art,
whether it be a picture of food

449
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,320
or something like that, because
that's the one piece that I felt

450
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,640
like it was a disconnect.
The whole thing is about

451
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,120
nutrition, but I don't see any
of that in the cover art.

452
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:23,800
Like the food pyramid or
something?

453
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,200
Yeah, exactly.
Something along those lines just

454
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,440
to key me into this is about
nutrition.

455
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,080
I love the cover art other than
that.

456
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:32,880
Fair enough.
OK, thank you.

457
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:40,000
And let's quickly talk about the
episode title and description.

458
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:46,160
So the title is carnivore
omnivore dot dot dot nutravore.

459
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,760
How to shift from calorie
counting to nutrient density.

460
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,840
Here are my thoughts.
I'm not crazy about the title,

461
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,880
and this actually part of it
does go back to something that I

462
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,960
think Ralph said earlier.
To me, it feels like this is

463
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:07,360
speaking to the patients more
than the medical professionals.

464
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,000
When I look at the title, I
think that it's a little busy.

465
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,200
It's got a lot, a lot of things
to look at and think about.

466
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,280
In other words, it's not
focusing on just the main

467
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:24,160
concept in like do we need
carnivore, omnivore, nutrivor?

468
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,720
I know is maybe not such a
searched term, but so therefore

469
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,320
I think what we need to do is
move away from being so specific

470
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,080
in this title, but specific
enough to where we know what

471
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,560
we're going to get when we press
play.

472
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,800
So here are a few examples.
How to fix your nutrition with

473
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,840
one simple habit or how to fix
your client's nutrition with one

474
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,400
simple habit or the diet culture
lie that's ruining your

475
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,840
patient's health.
And lastly, the other idea I had

476
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,640
was 5 nutrition mistakes.
Keeping your patients

477
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,920
undernourished.
This speaks more like.

478
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,920
That one.
Oh, you like that last one?

479
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,240
Yeah.
Yeah, I do.

480
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,240
And look, I admit that sometimes
we here at the podcasting

481
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,600
morning chat when we talk about
multiple topics and sometimes in

482
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,760
depth, Ashley and I have a hard
time sometimes with the title.

483
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,800
But what I've been working on,
or we've been working on, is

484
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,680
kind of being OK with picking
one thing and sticking to that

485
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,200
instead of trying to load the
title with as much as possible.

486
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,160
I think the clear and concise
route works better, and we're

487
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,400
testing that right now.
You're spot on with the things

488
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,280
that the rewording of the title.
I think those were great.

489
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,600
The only comment I would have
about the title is she needs to

490
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,200
lose the number.
She doesn't need to put the

491
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,200
number in her title.
And that's another one that we

492
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,840
at the podcasting morning chat
originally we're not doing.

493
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:56,040
Then we decided, I decided to
add the episode number back in

494
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,560
because I do that thinking about
our audience and being able to

495
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,360
reference episodes and and find
them quickly.

496
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,600
Yes, I know that you can find
the episode numbers displayed on

497
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,120
most podcast platforms, but
they're not always in an easy to

498
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:14,920
find, easy to see place.
And so putting it in the title

499
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:17,200
is why that's why I put it in
the title.

500
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:22,200
But I recognize that it's it's
not helping me for search engine

501
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,240
optimization or just general
searches.

502
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:27,360
I don't think it it's working as
well.

503
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:31,880
I'd rather just start with the
value and not messy it up with

504
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,800
the episode number.
I'm with you there.

505
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,520
I just want to say I've got over
5800 podcast episodes in.

506
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,520
Every episode starts with a
three digit number.

507
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,040
If I launch a brand new podcast,
it's 001.

508
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,440
And I definitely do it for the
purpose of the fact that hey,

509
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,840
once I have sixty 7080100200
episodes in, I don't want you

510
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:01,240
to, I want to be able to say go
back and listen to episode #749

511
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,080
of this show.
And I might actually be saying

512
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,080
this in episode 948.
I don't want them.

513
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,680
I don't want to rely on what
podcast player they're looking

514
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,520
at.
They could go to my website and

515
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,520
type in the at the number I said
in the search bar.

516
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,880
They'll take it right to it.
I'm a huge advocate for putting

517
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,240
the three digit episode number
at the very beginning, even when

518
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,320
Apple used to reject new
podcasts for doing it.

519
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,200
Thank you, Cliff, and I
appreciate you standing your

520
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,320
ground on that one And it, you
know, of course, now you're

521
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,000
making me rethink my strategy is
again, because yeah, I'm with

522
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,360
you there.
I want it to be convenient or a

523
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,120
convenient experience for my
audience.

524
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,640
I get it.
I agree 100% with what clip just

525
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,600
said.
I think the number provides an

526
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,040
easier way to direct people to
other episodes.

527
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,800
I always have the number in my
episode titles and I would

528
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,320
continue to do that.
I like the episode numbers.

529
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,240
Yep.
For the titles as a whole,

530
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,320
though, I would say excite.
After seen that one, I went back

531
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,400
and I started looking at some of
the other episode titles and I

532
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,960
feel like a lot of them are very
long.

533
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,800
They almost every single one of
them got cut off on the podcast

534
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,840
player and it seemed like the
most important stuff, but the

535
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,360
keywords, the things that were
really going to hook me were on

536
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,520
the part that got cut off.
So I would suggest like flipping

537
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,640
around some of those titles that
she's got for the episodes and

538
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,760
make sure that you're putting
like the real value right at the

539
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,320
beginning of the title so that
everything else gets cut off.

540
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,240
Isn't the important stuff.
Yeah, I did actually notice that

541
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,680
too.
And I had run it through a

542
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,600
character counter and I think
this episode was right around 90

543
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,440
characters, which is feels a
little too long for me to.

544
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,840
And yeah, I think that any one
of the episode titles that I

545
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,960
threw out there, I think that
will solve that length issue, if

546
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,600
you will.
OK, we still haven't played

547
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,640
clips.
And I want to quickly ask

548
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,200
everybody to 1st, if you're
listening live right now, answer

549
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,760
the poll that Ashley just put on
the top here.

550
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,720
Vote for whether or not you
prefer episode numbers in the

551
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,440
title.
Just curious and we'll share

552
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,440
those results with you.
To that point, the episode

553
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,520
numbers like if a host as a
listener, if a host says, hey,

554
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,440
go check out this episode and
gives me the name of the podcast

555
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,760
episode and I have to scroll
through like cliffs that he's

556
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,080
got thousands of episodes and I
got to scroll through to find

557
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:31,400
the exact title of that episode.
I am going to lose my mind if he

558
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,760
says go to episode 23 and I have
to scroll to the bottom of 2000

559
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,320
episodes, but I know where I'm
going.

560
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,640
I so much more appreciate that,
more likely to click on that

561
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,720
versus go hunting for an episode
that I don't know where it

562
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,160
plans.
I think that this speaks to the

563
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:53,400
biggest need of all, at least
along the lines of this topic.

564
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,880
I think these podcast players
need to just figure out a way to

565
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,240
display the episode numbers in a
prominent place so that we don't

566
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,720
have to do that.
Because it is true that adding

567
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,800
the number at the front could
hurt as far as search purposes

568
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,640
go, right?
But I just wish the players

569
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,360
would find a way to do that,
display that episode number.

570
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,760
Matt, welcome to the stage.
What did you want to add?

571
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,160
And then we got to move on to
the episode description.

572
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,360
Hello.
This is why Podcast Addict has

573
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,400
the staying power and I think is
one of the best podcast

574
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,200
listening apps out there because
it doesn't have that problem

575
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,200
with episode numbers.
They are very easy to see

576
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,480
whether they're included in the
title or not, and it has so much

577
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,920
flexibility.
I think it's just been around

578
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,960
long enough that it's not an
issue, for whatever that's worth

579
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,000
to anybody.
I don't know about the pocket

580
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,480
casts of things, but.
I've forgotten about Podcast

581
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:53,880
Addict.
It's been a while since I've

582
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,400
used it.
I'm going to pull that up and

583
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,240
start playing around with it
just to experience that.

584
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,200
Yeah, thank you, Matt.
Great suggestion.

585
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,880
Appreciate it.
And Dr. did you want to add

586
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,320
something, by the way, before
you do, just want to share the

587
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,240
poll results, around 10 people
so far.

588
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:16,000
It's 5050, there are more of you
listening than 10 people or so

589
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,200
that voted, so please vote.
Do you put episode numbers in

590
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,400
your title?
And if you're maybe starting a

591
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,600
podcast and haven't yet, what
would be your preference?

592
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,520
Or if you're a listener, what's
your preference?

593
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,600
Do you like seeing the episode
numbers in the title?

594
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:35,680
Go ahead, Dr. So I am team
number for a long time and it's

595
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,680
funny, I just listened to
Courtney Elmer's episode on this

596
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:45,400
yesterday and she is not team
number and she gave her reasons.

597
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,600
That's fine.
But I'm still this is a hill

598
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,760
that I'm willing to die on.
Even if let's say you reference

599
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,080
a past podcast in an episode
that you're talking on.

600
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,800
I mean, you can definitely link
it in the notes.

601
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,440
That's fine.
But what if you're on the, you

602
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,880
know, the speaking tour and
you're talking to large

603
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,120
audiences instead of saying,
well, I did a podcast.

604
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,080
It's called Monetization in the
New World.

605
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,400
No, just give the number if
you're on that speaking tour.

606
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:24,320
It's just so much easier.
Thank you, Dr. And while I have

607
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,199
you, I know you had some no, you
had some things to share about

608
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:31,960
the episode description itself.
And I'm not going to read the

609
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,719
entire well, I guess I can read
most of it.

610
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,320
But it basically says today's
episode will change how you

611
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,960
think and talk about food.
Instead of obsessing over

612
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,280
calories and cutting carbs, what
if we taught patients to focus

613
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,159
on nutrient density?
And then she goes on to say, I'm

614
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:51,560
joined by Doctor Sarah
Ballantyne, best selling author

615
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,120
of Nutrivor.
You'll learn how to shift the

616
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,360
conversation from restriction to
addition and give patients

617
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,200
permission to enjoy their food
and improve their health.

618
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,640
And then she shares a few bullet
points of what you'll learn.

619
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,600
She provides the links and
resources, how to connect with

620
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:13,200
her and a disclaimer at the end.
So, Dr. You had some thoughts on

621
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,200
this?
I kind of did a a revised

622
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:19,120
edition of the podcast
description and it was.

623
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,600
As a clinician, your patients
look to you for clear answers.

624
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,560
What should I eat for diabetes?
How do I lose weight My child

625
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,600
refuses to for to eat
vegetables.

626
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,840
What now?
At most medical I'm sorry.

627
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,680
Yet most medical professionals
receive minimal nutrition

628
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,400
training.
The National Academy of Science

629
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,640
recommends 25 hours of
nutritional education, but many

630
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:45,600
clinicians get fewer than five.
I went on and and I know the

631
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:51,040
value of a short description,
but we're also dealing with SEOI

632
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,160
want to grab all that SEO
goodness that I can.

633
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,920
And honestly, I think probably
doctors are going to read half

634
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,000
of what's there.
So that makes it even.

635
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,440
You should be even more mindful
about putting the meat in that

636
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,680
upper half above the fold, as
they say.

637
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,320
Thank you, Dr. The one
suggestion I would make if

638
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,360
you're going to go a little bit
longer or if you are worried

639
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,120
about making sure to capture the
keywords that you want to

640
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,240
capture, I would say for this
particular audience, doing it

641
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:28,080
mostly in bullet points might be
helpful because again, when

642
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,560
we're talking about them being
on the go, wanting stuff quick.

643
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:34,320
Right, format it differently.
Format it differently so that

644
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,400
it's easy and quick to read.
I have a question.

645
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,880
This is probably going to be
another 5050 debate here, but in

646
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,840
those show notes, the
description, there's a character

647
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:49,000
limit I believe.
And should you put chap markers

648
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,320
and time stamps there?
She does not include it to the

649
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,640
point of DRI.
Listen to the same episode from

650
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,280
Courtney yesterday.
She has the time stamps there

651
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,760
and when you click on it, it
goes straight to that portion of

652
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,120
the episodes.
Is it?

653
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,200
Do you include the chapter
marker slash timestamps in that

654
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,520
notes section or do you not?
This is a tough one because more

655
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,680
and more of the players are now
automatically adding those.

656
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,240
Spotify, Apple, they're
automatically adding chapters

657
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:21,440
now.
So theoretically you wouldn't

658
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,440
have to, but if you want to play
to all the players that may not

659
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,240
do that, then I think they're
it's an advantage to include

660
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:33,600
chapter markers, especially if
they're clip clickable and you

661
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,240
can jump around.
And again, especially for this

662
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:40,760
audience who may want to just
jump to different areas to

663
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,920
quickly get some information.
So we played the main intro.

664
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,800
Let's play the setup for the
intro and hear what you guys

665
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,480
think.
Nutrivor, A noun.

666
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,440
A person who chooses foods to
supply all the nutrients their

667
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,640
body needs to thrive.
A way of eating built around

668
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,040
nutrient dense Whole Foods, not
restriction.

669
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,440
Now, when I first heard about
the book Nutrivor, I immediately

670
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,120
knew I wanted to speak to the
author because so much of what I

671
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,360
try to teach patients aligns
with the core message of this

672
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,200
book.
Nutrivor isn't a diet book.

673
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,960
It's a completely new way to
think about food.

674
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,040
Instead of labeling food as good
or bad, Nutrivor teaches us to

675
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,360
zoom out and look at the overall
quality of the diet, choosing

676
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,880
foods that over the course of
the day, provides the essential

677
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,600
vitamins and minerals our bodies
need to thrive.

678
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:39,880
So today I'm thrilled to be
joined by Doctor Sarah

679
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,720
Ballantine, the New York Times
best selling author and the

680
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:45,640
creator of Nutrivor.
In this episode, you'll learn

681
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:50,960
how to explain nutrient density
to a patient in 60 seconds using

682
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,680
a car analogy that your patients
will love.

683
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:56,440
You'll learn what to say when a
patient tells you that they

684
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,400
don't like any vegetables, or
says that healthy eating is too

685
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,840
expensive and why the old Eat
less, move more approach to

686
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,280
weight loss is really outdated
and potentially harmful.

687
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,760
This episode is a powerful
reminder that small, doable

688
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:16,200
changes, like adding just one
serving of vegetables a day, can

689
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,080
move the needle on your
patient's health in really big

690
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,800
ways.
So that is the episode

691
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,400
introduction.
What stood out about the way

692
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,480
Colleen set up the topic and
introduced her guest Who would

693
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,840
like to share?
I thought it was too long, but I

694
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,800
love that she told me what I was
going to learn.

695
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,480
That she's reading, obviously,
which is fine, but I love that

696
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,520
she told me, hey, this is what
you can learn in this episode

697
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,040
and this is what we're going to
do and this is who we were

698
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,160
talking to.
But I felt like it was too long.

699
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,040
I agree, even for me as the
listener who may not be as

700
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,240
rushed as maybe her audience is.
So yeah, I'm with you there.

701
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,520
Sid and Matt, did you want to
chime in as well?

702
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,000
I listened to it initially and I
didn't have a problem with it

703
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,280
because the vibe I get from her
podcast and again as as Diaz

704
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,960
pointed out, I've missed half
this conversation so do stop me

705
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,920
at any point if I go over
anything you've talked about.

706
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:09,480
But the vibe I get is that she
is an educational podcaster.

707
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,000
She is telling you about
material and when I heard her go

708
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,280
in depth about where the
conversation was going to go, it

709
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,880
does two things for me.
The 1st is it outlines the

710
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,680
learning objectives of the
conversation in a really

711
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,520
detailed way.
Which I think is important.

712
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,280
It doesn't matter how long
you're on the train before

713
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:29,760
someone needs to take the turn
off.

714
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,320
Sorry, I'm mixing my metaphors
here, But the density and the

715
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,440
length that it took to get to
that intro, objectively, it's

716
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,280
long, but it gives you what you
need to decide if you want to

717
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,200
listen to the episode.
And I think it gives you enough

718
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,520
to realize that even if you
don't know enough about the

719
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,200
material, you've got enough
there to get in there.

720
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,080
Now, the second thing that it
does is that it kind of pushes

721
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,280
beyond a level, a point at which
retention is counted and would

722
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,440
be calculated as being
effective.

723
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,080
And it also gives you a time
stamp fee to know when people

724
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,520
are jumping off the intro,
presuming that they've either A

725
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,480
heard the material before and
don't want to listen to it, or

726
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,360
B, they just weren't interested
in the episode.

727
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,480
So I think that length isn't a
problem for me.

728
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,760
I think it does its job well.
And being an educational podcast

729
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,040
from a Doctor Who's also sharing
material from other people and

730
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,200
potentially herself, but also
claiming that this information

731
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,520
is, you know, not medical advice
and da, da, da.

732
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,480
That disclaimer was in her show
notes as well.

733
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,320
I think it does a good job, but
that's just my opinion.

734
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,080
Yeah, and that's why we do the
podcasting morning chat is to

735
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,880
get a variety of opinions and
not just Force One opinion down

736
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,200
our listeners throat.
I hear what you're saying and I

737
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,120
clocked it.
The official interview itself

738
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,920
actually begins around 2
minutes, 45 seconds into the

739
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,400
show, which in my opinion, I
mean, I put out a piece on

740
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,240
social media that's to this day
on TikTok and Instagram, still

741
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:03,520
one of my more popular short
form videos and it talks about

742
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,160
getting to the point within the
first 3 minutes of a podcast

743
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,000
episode.
And I still stand by that.

744
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,760
I think if you can get it out
there and of course you're

745
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:15,440
delivering value and
entertainment, I think she did a

746
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,480
fine job of meeting that
requirement of under 3 minutes.

747
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,680
I want to play one more part
here which will fill that

748
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,360
two-minute, 45 seconds that I
just mentioned.

749
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,080
I appreciate here she does a
little what I call here on the

750
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,840
show, a little housekeeping.
After we hear what we just

751
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,800
heard, I want to play it for you
and then I want to let's talk

752
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,880
about.
It Now before we dive in, I

753
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,960
wanted to let you know that I'll
be taking a short break from the

754
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,440
podcast as I help my daughter
get ready and settled into the

755
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,920
new school year and work on a
few projects that have upcoming

756
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,840
deadlines.
But don't worry, I'll be back

757
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,120
with new episodes on September
3rd.

758
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,400
Now in the meantime, please
let's stay connected on

759
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,760
Instagram or LinkedIn.
You can find me at Exam Room

760
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,800
nutrition, give me a follow and
send me a message letting me

761
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,920
know that you are a podcast
listener.

762
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,720
And don't forget to browse the
podcast archives.

763
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,760
Over the past two years, I've
covered a ton of nutrition

764
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,720
topics that I'm sure you'll find
super helpful and inspiring.

765
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,640
All right now get comfy or drive
safe and enjoy my conversation

766
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,320
with Doctor Sarah.
And I like the little whoosh

767
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,440
there at the end.
I think actually she could have

768
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:33,120
made that a little louder for a
little more impact.

769
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,240
But I do like the the segment
break there.

770
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,920
And I like that she's called
this out and that she's talking

771
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,720
to her audience and she's
telling them I'm taking a short

772
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:48,120
break.
And I especially appreciate that

773
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,200
she's actually giving them
things different ways to connect

774
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,920
with her during her absence.
My one piece of constructive

775
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,880
criticism.
I wish this part wasn't

776
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,080
scripted.
I'm OK with the scripting, much

777
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,400
like Cliff said.
I'm OK with the fact that she

778
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,160
was reading from a script up and
up until this point.

779
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,400
Because to me, I want it.
I want to feel like she is

780
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,040
leaning in and talking to me,
you know, one-on-one.

781
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,440
I don't want it to feel generic.
Let I want to feel this part and

782
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,840
I think that can go a long way.
I appreciated the, you know,

783
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,000
this is where I'm going to be
and, and it brought everyone

784
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,800
into her world about I'm going
to put my daughter through

785
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,720
school and blah, blah, blah.
I did feel like it was a little

786
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:36,000
too long, especially when she
went in to take a look at the

787
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,840
archives.
I think that that probably could

788
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,800
have been cut off.
And there are some people, yeah,

789
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,320
there's some people that are
saying it should have been at

790
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,680
the end.
But, you know, I thought about

791
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,160
that.
But just like people who are

792
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,360
used to fast forwarding through
those commercials on other

793
00:44:54,360 --> 00:45:00,720
shows, people are also likely
to, you know, cut off and go to

794
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:04,000
their next their next show that
they have lined up without

795
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,720
listening to the end.
So she's damned if she does, and

796
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:08,920
she's damned if she doesn't on
either end.

797
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,880
To me, it's going to stop me
like in my tracks if, when, if

798
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,520
the host again, I don't care
where she's placed it.

799
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,800
Like I think it's a good place
for it in the beginning to be

800
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,840
honest, but.
Right, if they haven't fast

801
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,920
forwarded already.
If I'm a listener and I hear I'm

802
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,120
going to be pausing the podcast,
I'm going to be taking a short

803
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,080
break.
Well, now I'm leaning in as a

804
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,200
listener, like, why?
What's going on that might

805
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:34,000
capture my attention, which is a
good thing.

806
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,040
Thank you, Dr. Appreciate that.
Go ahead, Janae.

807
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,560
Good morning.
So the intro for me felt just

808
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,440
right, mainly because I'm
interested in this topic right

809
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,120
now, right in my life.
I'm interested in topic looking

810
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,440
at what I'm eating.
So it's like, OK, this is really

811
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,720
interesting because I really
like where she's taking this

812
00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:57,600
because as somebody who's
watching my diet, eating what

813
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,800
I'm eating, the supplements, so
this is like, OK, this is really

814
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,480
interesting because I want to
listen to this.

815
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:07,040
But then at some point I was
like, OK, I'm not down.

816
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,560
Like, again, it all comes down
to the thought process of what

817
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,960
you're going through As somebody
who wants to listen to this

818
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,480
topic, there's some
controversial things in there.

819
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,360
So that might make me interested
to come in and listen to more.

820
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,520
Makes sense.
Thank you, Janae.

821
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,560
Appreciate that.
I'm going to play another clip

822
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,160
and one of the things I want to
make sure we address here is

823
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,600
something again that Ralph had
brought up earlier.

824
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:34,120
And I think some others had felt
similarly about the fact that is

825
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,720
this episode really speaking to
the target audience.

826
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,960
So let me play this.
But I did appreciate this

827
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,400
exchange.
But yeah, I want to keep that

828
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,120
thought in mind as we listen.
So my first question is how do

829
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,520
we explain that concept of
nutrient density to our patients

830
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,320
and why should they care about
that?

831
00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:57,760
I think it's a really
challenging concept to

832
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:02,160
communicate in a very short
period of time because it really

833
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,920
goes against the grain of how
like all of the messages that

834
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,560
were inundated with all the time
from diet culture, which is

835
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,600
almost like that that if you
think of like the tug and and

836
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:17,680
pull between teaching patients
about nutrition from an evidence

837
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,320
based perspective versus all of
the things that they're reading

838
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,560
online.
So I think the most important

839
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,000
message to give in a short
period of time is nutrients are

840
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,880
raw materials.
Your body needs nutrients the

841
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:36,360
way a car needs gas, but also
oil and brake fluid and wind

842
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,720
shear wiper fluid.
And so we've, we've got this

843
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:44,080
like big collection of things
that our bodies need to do, all

844
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,080
the things that our bodies do in
a healthy way.

845
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,000
And that's what vitamins are,
that's what minerals are.

846
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,320
And so we'd want to look at when
we're choosing foods, not just

847
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,120
look at the energy, not just
look at the gas that that food

848
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,560
gives us, but does it have the
brake fluid?

849
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,120
Does it have oil?
Does it have a winter wiper

850
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:02,720
fluid?
All of the other things that the

851
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,080
engine needs to run smoothly.
So this clip I loved.

852
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:12,040
I appreciated the analogy.
And at first when I heard it, I

853
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:17,640
was thinking, if I was a
healthcare professional, would I

854
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,160
be jiving with this?
Would it maybe feel like they're

855
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,960
almost talking down to me?
Because I probably, I feel like

856
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,480
I probably should know this.
But at the same time, where I

857
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,960
convinced myself that this is
not a problem is because what

858
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,400
this is doing is it's, it's
giving fuel, pardon the pun,

859
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,680
it's giving fuel to these
professionals, It's sharing a

860
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:44,000
way to communicate effectively
in a relatable way with your

861
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,720
patients.
So although that this

862
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:50,400
information initially in this
part of the interview, the

863
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,480
beginning, although that part is
maybe fundamental, maybe

864
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:00,560
obvious, but the actual
messaging may not be so obvious

865
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,240
for a professional.
So this might help them

866
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,360
communicate better with their
patients.

867
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:11,280
To your point, she's teaching
the medical professional how to

868
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,800
quote UN quote, speak English to
the patient.

869
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,160
We've all been there where we've
been into an exam room and the

870
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,600
doctor, PA is talking so far
overhead, we have no idea what

871
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,360
they're saying.
And I've even said to a couple

872
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:25,960
of them.
And could you write that down?

873
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,920
My wife's a nurse and she can
explain this to me better,

874
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:30,760
right?
So we've all been there.

875
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,960
So I love that she's giving you
a tool that you can use to

876
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,520
explain something really
important to someone who they're

877
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,120
going to really understand it in
very simple terms.

878
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,200
I agree with that at the
beginning, but the problem is

879
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,720
then she loses that in the rest
of the episode because she made

880
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:49,160
a statement at one point.
And I'm fixed on nutrition as

881
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,760
well.
Just drop like 70 lbs.

882
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,000
And so like, I'm in tune with
this, which which is great, but

883
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:55,480
that's not her target audience,
though.

884
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,280
And she makes statements later
on about how vegetables that you

885
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,360
get in the can and in the frozen
Ohio.

886
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:04,840
That's great for an individual
to hear that.

887
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,880
But a practitioner, in my view,
is going to zone out and go, no,

888
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:09,120
you don't know what you're
talking about.

889
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,520
And I just feel like she's
disconnected with her core

890
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,400
audience of who she's trying to
reach.

891
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,200
Not in that quote that you did,
not in the clip you just played,

892
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,520
but later on in the depth of the
episode.

893
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,440
And when you say she, are you
referring to the guest or the

894
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,680
host?
Well, I think to get, I think

895
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,920
the host needs to direct the
episode.

896
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,360
I mean, that's the host job is
to direct it.

897
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:35,120
I'm bringing a guest on to suit
my audience regardless of what

898
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,280
the guest wants to mention.
The host job is to make sure

899
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,800
it's relevant to my core
listeners.

900
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,160
So I feel like that's the
disconnect.

901
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,560
Again, this might speak to in
parts, maybe not the whole

902
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,320
episode, but this might speak
to, again, what we were saying.

903
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,720
What I was saying and Sid was
saying is that there's this fine

904
00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:57,240
line here of both communicating
with the target audience who are

905
00:50:57,240 --> 00:51:00,880
medical professionals, but also
teaching them how to communicate

906
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,760
with their patients.
So there's going to be this a

907
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,360
little bit of a muddied area
here where sometimes it might

908
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,040
feel like the audience, the
target audience is being taught

909
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,400
about medical stuff, but it's
maybe more about how they're

910
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,520
supposed to teach it to their
patients.

911
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,440
Yeah, I want to agree to a
degree with Ralph.

912
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,240
I think I wrote this in my
evaluation form.

913
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:29,480
My biggest concern, if I had to
say concern about this episode

914
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,480
specifically, was there were
points of the conversation.

915
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,920
I was confused as who was the
target audience?

916
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,840
Is it the clinician or is it the
patient?

917
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,840
And I know she's trying to talk
to the clinician, but I do think

918
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,080
there's some confusion here of
actually who she's talking to

919
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,480
and if she can clear that up.
Because a couple of places they

920
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,920
refer to me like a patient, like
they're talking to me.

921
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:52,600
Other places they're talking to
the clinician.

922
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,800
So a little bit more clarity
around that I think will help

923
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,480
the reach of the shift.
Thank you both Ralph and Sid.

924
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,400
I want to do this before we wrap
up because again, she asked,

925
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:08,200
Colleen asked for feedback on
intros and outros and we haven't

926
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,240
gotten to the closing yet.
So let me play that for you and

927
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:14,720
then let's get some feedback.
Thank you so very much for the

928
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:16,960
gift of your time.
I know you're so, so busy, so I

929
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,600
really appreciate you being on
the show today.

930
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,840
Thank you again for having me.
Well, I hope this episode gave

931
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,440
you a new lens to view nutrition
through, one that's focused on

932
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,200
adding value, not restriction.
Now, if you're wanting more ways

933
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,200
to help patients in their health
journey, I would love to invite

934
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,840
you to join the Obesity Medicine
Nutrition course.

935
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,320
It's an on demand CE accredited
course that gives you 10 1/2

936
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,200
credits, lifetime access to a
growing community of like minded

937
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,960
providers, and tons of bonus
resources.

938
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:51,480
One of the members, Jayza, said
it's one of the best investments

939
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,400
I've made.
I'm a new dietitian and new to

940
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,520
private practice, so I was
apprehensive about spending the

941
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,560
money, but I think it's worth
its weight in gold.

942
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,440
Thank you, Jason.
So head over to

943
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:10,120
examroomnutrition.com/course and
use code POD 15 to save 15% off

944
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,920
the entire course.
This is my way of thanking you

945
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:14,800
for being a loyal podcast
listener.

946
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,680
Now, if you've learned something
that you can use in clinic this

947
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:21,160
week, do me a quick favor, leave
me a short review in your

948
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,880
podcast app.
This helps other clinicians like

949
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,040
you find my show.
Well, thanks for carving out

950
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,160
time for nutrition today.
As always, let's continue to

951
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,320
make our patients healthier, one
exam room at a time.

952
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,600
I'll see you next month.
Let me weigh in first.

953
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,280
I want to say that one, I don't
know if it's criticism or not.

954
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,960
One observation is I thought
that interview wrap up at the

955
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:45,520
end there was a little too
quick.

956
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:50,600
I would have liked a short and
sweet wrap up from Colleen at

957
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:55,080
the end after she says her
goodbye to the guest, maybe with

958
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:56,640
just a couple of quick
takeaways.

959
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,480
Again, I wanted to be short and
sweet because I'm keeping the

960
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,800
audience in mind.
Dr. Did you want to comment at

961
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,280
all about the call to action at
the end?

962
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:10,040
I probably would have put that
as a mid roll because like we

963
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,400
said before, people are
apartment to Fast forward to the

964
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,160
meet or you know cut off
altogether after the interview's

965
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:18,920
over.
So I probably would have put

966
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,840
that in the mid roll and then it
would have left time for, you

967
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,720
know, a couple like 3 bullet
points for takeaways.

968
00:54:26,240 --> 00:54:30,680
Yes, and I also thought it was
maybe a little too a little too

969
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,160
loaded at the end there.
Too many things to do.

970
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,760
Too many things, yeah.
So another, that's another vote

971
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:41,080
for putting the course
information mid roll so that at

972
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,160
the end, yeah, you can actually
give your takeaways and

973
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,600
encourage people to follow the
podcast, leave a review,

974
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,800
whatever action you'd like them
to take.

975
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,320
I'm with you there.
Yeah, also I want to talk about

976
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:57,120
that little whoosh.
I was, I am like a music outro

977
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,520
person.
I want to hear music build that.

978
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,680
I want to hear it fade that I
want to hear you talk.

979
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,680
The whoosh was appreciated, but
I think it should have been

980
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,560
bigger.
It should have been had more of

981
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,920
a statement, you know, to make
the transition.

982
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,840
I'll say this, I am that way
too.

983
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:17,680
DRI like having the music lead
us in and out as a transition.

984
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:23,280
And I, I sometimes wonder how
effective that is in a digital

985
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:27,720
format because to me what we're
doing is we're cueing our

986
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:30,680
audience that OK, something is
ending here.

987
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,960
And if they see at that we are
literally about a minute or two

988
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:39,040
left into the show, they may
say, oh, it's ending.

989
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,280
OK, I'm good and they may check
out.

990
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,240
Whereas this, it kind of sneaks
up on you.

991
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:47,440
You just get that whoosh, like,
oh, it's over, and then she's on

992
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,120
to something else.
Maybe, but hopefully it's being

993
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,960
edited to where the guest is
saying something, you know,

994
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:59,320
interesting enough to listen
through and then and the, the

995
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:04,200
music bed is there and then it
swells up and then you come in

996
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,600
with those, those 3 takeaways.
And plus it's a matter of

997
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:09,920
training your audience as well.
Oh, there's going to be

998
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:11,240
takeaways.
Right.

999
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:12,880
So I want to listen.
You know some.

1000
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,120
Yeah, great, great points.
Dr. Anyone else want to share

1001
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:20,920
anything else overall or about
specifically the the closing?

1002
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,400
The episode itself about exam
room nutrition?

1003
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,320
Any final thoughts?
Anyone take away?

1004
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,960
If you had to give her one take
away today, maybe you've already

1005
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,600
shared it but you feel it's
important, what would that be?

1006
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,400
We all fall into this trap of.
Do this.

1007
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:38,920
Do this do.
This and the listeners going

1008
00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:42,000
well, what do you want me to do?
Go on your e-mail list, Follow

1009
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,880
you on Instagram?
Like we all fall into the trap

1010
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:46,200
of giving them too many things
to do.

1011
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:51,800
Just be super clear and IA 100%
agree with Dr. and I put this in

1012
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,320
my evaluation as well.
She needs to sponsor her own

1013
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,120
show.
Katie Brinkley has started doing

1014
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:01,560
this where she swooshes into an
ad midway of her show saying

1015
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,080
today's episode is brought to
you by my business next step

1016
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,440
social and she does a little
32nd ad.

1017
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,360
That's exactly what Colleen can
do about her program because I

1018
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,320
know that her goal is to get
more people into her program.

1019
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:19,400
Sponsor your own show, put the
ad mid roll and give them that

1020
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:20,880
call to action there to come
join in.

1021
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,520
Love it.
Great advice, Sid.

1022
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,200
Thank you.
And if anyone else doesn't have

1023
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,400
any final words layout, let me
go to Matt and then we're going

1024
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:30,520
to take us home.
Go ahead, Matt.

1025
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,440
Just very quickly on Sid's point
there, the when I had a quick

1026
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,760
look at it after someone made a
point earlier, I was trying to

1027
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,920
find what the through line is
without listening to the show at

1028
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,000
all to see what the stuff around
it was and it wasn't too clear.

1029
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,920
There's a like a Co file or
something, but everything else

1030
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,000
isn't super clear.
So I think just having a bit of

1031
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,200
a rethink around how it sits in
with everything else that she

1032
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,840
does because she does other
stuff clearly and maybe how this

1033
00:57:57,840 --> 00:57:59,880
content canmore closely align to
that.

1034
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:03,760
And then, you know, Sid's
suggestion is that we'll have

1035
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,240
some clear actions to include as
part of that self sponsorship.

1036
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,480
Thank you, Matt.
And I will say one thing we

1037
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:16,000
haven't mentioned today is
overall I thought that she did a

1038
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,880
a nice job interviewing and she
certainly felt prepared.

1039
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:24,280
Her questions were on point with
the conversation and there

1040
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:29,080
wasn't a, a big rapport between
her and her guest.

1041
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:32,200
I would have liked to feel like
they knew each other a little

1042
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:33,720
more.
There was just, I don't know,

1043
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,120
there's just a little more
chemistry.

1044
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,200
But overall, I thought the
interview, I think she did a, a

1045
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,560
good job and she was well
prepared.

1046
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,400
So Colleen, if you're listening,
oh, who who wanted to chime in

1047
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:46,600
and then I'll.
That was me.

1048
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:47,640
That was me.
Sorry.

1049
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,920
I just want to say one more
thing about this. 26 minutes,

1050
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,120
actually. 23 minutes.
What's her interview?

1051
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:58,160
It was packed with value and
actionable takeaways in 23

1052
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,080
minutes.
That's really, really good for

1053
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:03,680
an interview based pockets.
I struggled to keep mine at 30

1054
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:05,920
minutes and most of mine are in
the 40s.

1055
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:10,640
So the fact that she got so much
value extracted and taught you

1056
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,400
in 23 minutes, I think you're 22
minutes, whatever it is, is

1057
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,840
actually really good and she
should be commended for that as

1058
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,160
an interviewer.
Thank you, Sid.

1059
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,880
Appreciate that.
I just want to say that I found

1060
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:28,200
the metaphor that her guest
shared for the different ways of

1061
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,400
thinking about the micro and
macro nutrients was brilliant.

1062
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:37,720
And it was a reminder to me to
keep the clinical language out

1063
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,600
and speaking stories that people
can understand.

1064
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,600
And even though I'm not a
clinician and I'm not her target

1065
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,880
audience, I pulled away an
insight and I just wanted to say

1066
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,160
that that was incredible.
Thank you, Cliff, Great point

1067
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,480
and thank you for your feedback
today and thanks to the whole

1068
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,120
team for your feedback today.
I think that this was helpful

1069
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,840
for Colleen.
Colleen would love to hear from

1070
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,480
you and let us know if this
helped you in your journey.

1071
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:07,840
Good job.
Keep going and we'll be

1072
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,560
following along.
On your journey.

1073
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,520
So if you want your journey
shared on this show and you

1074
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,680
would like your podcast to be
evaluated, check the show notes.

1075
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:21,320
We will put a link there to fill
out a quick and easy application

1076
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:25,640
to be a part of our evaluation
series that we're doing every

1077
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,040
Thursday here on the Podcasting
Morning Chat.

1078
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,800
And of course, for all things
Podcasting Morning Chat, whether

1079
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,960
you want to find out where to
watch, where to listen, or go

1080
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:41,040
back to some past episodes, just
go to podpage.com/PMC or for the

1081
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,800
first time, podcasting morning
chat.com.

1082
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:49,240
Until tomorrow.
Make it a great day everybody,

1083
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:49,800
take care.