How Your First Minute Secretly Shapes Listener Trust

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Good morning, podcasting.
Morning Chat.

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Today is Thursday, November
20th, 2025, and today, branding,

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clarity, tighter messaging, and
stronger listener engagement

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take center stage as we break
down the space between in our

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podcast evaluation series to
spotlight what elevates and what

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limits.
So if you're listening live on

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Clubhouse, hit the share button,
bottom, top, right hand of the

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screen and share it.
However, Clubhouse lets you.

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And if you're catching us via
podcast chatter, YouTube, share

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this with a fellow podcaster.
And now give us about 30 seconds

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and we'll get things rolling.
Thanks for being here.

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Good morning again podcasting,
morning chat.

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Thanks so much for being here.
I am your host Mark Ronik and on

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stage with me.
We have a full house to say the

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least.
My Co hosts Jonathan Howard,

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producer Ashley Feller, Dr.
Faye, we have Cliff Ravenscroft

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here today.
We've got Nick Naulback, Sid

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Meadows, Ralph Estep and Alex
Baelish.

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Welcome.
Everyone in Cliff Ravenscraft,

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it's so good to have you back
again for another evaluation

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series.
Let me first stop and say good

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morning to you, Sir.
Welcome.

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Good morning.
Thank you so much.

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It's an honor to be here.
Love having you be a part of

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this.
It really is an honor having you

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be a part of this too, as really
one of the OG podcasting coaches

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out there.
Very cool to have you here

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again.
And yeah, we are going to dig

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into that podcast we just
mentioned The Space Between.

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If you were listening live, you
got to hear me mess it up

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because I actually titled it the
name of a Dave Matthews song.

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I called it The Space Between Us
and then I had to start over.

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I did not want to roll with that
as the official intro.

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So this comes from a member of
our community of the Empowered

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Podcasting Conference community,
Sean McClellan.

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Sean, We were introduced to Sean
this past September when he

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attended the conference and he
saw that we were looking for

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podcasts to evaluate and he
applied.

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And we're going to dive into
this approximately 11 minute

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episode and I see Ashley using
our shared sheet.

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Going to grab the episode link
right now.

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Thank you.
Ashley, I was just about to ask

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you to do that.
So we will share that link with

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you here live on Clubhouse.
And of course, it'll be in the

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show notes for you if you want
to go back and listen later.

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But we're going to play lots of
clips for you so you can get a

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good taste about this podcast.
In this particular episode,

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we're also going to do what we
normally do.

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We'll talk about the branding,
the discoverability, all the

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other things that are important
to consider when you have a

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podcast.
So The Space Between is a

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podcast that was created for the
individual who's seeking

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balance, purpose, and
intentional growth.

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It explores the journey between
where someone is now and where

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they want to be, hence the name.
The space between Sean's target

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audience, he says, is a high
achieving, faith anchored,

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purpose seeking leader who's
ready to exchange external

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success for internal
significance.

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And they see your message as the
road map to get there.

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Or I should say, they see his
message as the road map to get

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there.
It's about an 11 minute episode

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and he's looking for feedback on
things like content quality and

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depth, audio, engagement,
production quality,

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storytelling, all the things,
even the calls to action during

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the podcast.
So I think the best thing we're

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gonna we could do here is let's
start with a clip.

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Let's start with the show open.
I'm trying to come up with or

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share the correct terminology
because in this case, there's

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the show open, which is the
music.

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There's a voice over.
Then there is the start to the

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episode.
Then there is the introduction

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to what he's going to really dig
into to the episode.

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So there's lots of little pieces
to this.

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This is gonna be, like I said,
the show open.

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Let's give it a play.
Welcome to the Space Between

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podcast, where solutions always
have room to grow, and we

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encourage you to be.
Who you are before the world

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told you who to be.
Here's your host, Sean

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McClellan.
You nobody.

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Welcome back to The Space
Between, the only place to be

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for the Dreamer, the Doer, and
the Overcomer.

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OK, there you go.
I cut it off there because we're

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going to dissect this as we go.
So let's talk about this gang.

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What was everyone's immediate
impression when the episode

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began?
Let's go to Cliff first, our

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guest host today, and then I'll
check in with several others

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that want to chime in.
Go for it, Cliff.

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Good morning.
Good morning.

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So my first thought was the
intro kind of sounds

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professional enough.
It communicates the value.

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It was clear, easy to hear and
then instantly I couldn't hear a

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word, he said.
Oh, interesting.

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OK.
If anything it sounded like what

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I'm doing right now, which is
just sitting in the front seat

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of my car.
Only if I had my mouth away from

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the microphone like the mic was.
Maybe the phone is what I'm

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using to record and it's in the
front seat and I'm sitting in

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the back seat.
That's unless it didn't come

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through.
That's what I heard.

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Cliff, you're being too kind.
I think he was actually in

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another room.
It was just like.

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I'm wondering, Alex and Cliff,
if it's maybe a clubhouse thing.

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I'm not well.
I don't know because.

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Mark doesn't.
Happen in the audience.

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That.
Did not happen in the actual

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show when you listen to a live
mark.

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That's what I thought too.
So And Sid, did you hear a

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difference just now when I
played?

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It Oh yeah, it sounded like it
totally dropped off the volume

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level.
Between the intro and him

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talking were night and day
difference, but in the actual

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episode when you listen to it,
that did not happen.

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OK, And this is where actually,
and I, I don't think Matt Bliss,

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yeah, Matt's not here to share,
but he did share some feedback

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earlier this week.
And one of the things he pointed

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out is that this was recorded in
stereo, and I think there were

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some issues with that stereo
recording.

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You can hear it.
It's hard to explain, so I'm not

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going to, But you could hear
there is definitely something

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unusual about the audio.
And if he had done this in mono,

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I think it would have been a
little more smooth as far as the

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audio quality goes.
And I think maybe it would

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translate better playing it back
for you here on Clubhouse.

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That's my suspicion.
Let me just say to you that

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let's all assume that actually
the audio quality as far as

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hearing him and the levelling of
him, it's all fine.

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It all sounds fine.
I mean, there is that stereo

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recording issue and I know
Matt's suggestion is to record

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it in mono or in post
production, make it a mono file

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instead and I think that'll
solve any weirdness.

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I will say this and then I'll
check in with somebody else.

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As far as the show open goes, I
used to be a fan of those intros

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that had the voice over person
that kind of starts or sounds

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like a a radio show intro.
I have lost love for that and

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it's a personal preference,
right?

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Like I'm not saying this is the
wrong thing to do, Sean.

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You can't use that kind of
intro.

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I believe that it's more
effective if we're hearing the

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host's voice introduce the
episode.

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I want to hear who that is, who
I'm going to get to know.

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If this is the first time I'm
pressing play, I don't need the

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big fanfare either, because
these days when I hit play, I

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just want to get to it.
I want to know who I'm who I'm

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listening to and what they're
delivering to me.

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Ralph, did you want to add
something?

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Yeah, which speaks volumes to
what happens next, actually, if

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we want to continue on.
And that is the next thing we

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hear is his introduction.
It goes right into I want to

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sell you some coaching services
and I want you to give me a rate

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and review before I even know
who you are or what you're going

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to tell me.
OK, Yes, we will play that part

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too.
And that's interesting feedback

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for sure.
And I think, yeah, let's have a

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conversation about that too.
So let's put a pin on that just

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for a moment.
Did anybody else want to share

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about the actual show open?
Yes, Alex.

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I've been kind of focused on the
intros of some of the podcasts

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I've been, you know, listening
to.

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I actually don't have a problem
with it.

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And there's this one show and
it's got, it's not a Mel Robbins

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commercial, you know, it doesn't
have 27,000 commercials.

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But you know what?
I have no problem just hitting

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forward.
But to Ralph's point, I think,

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you know, selling is right off
the bat, you know, say hi at

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least.
I see in the chat Renee said the

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show intro reminds her of a Joe
Rogan opening.

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I could see that Dr. agrees with
that.

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Anyone else want to share but?
That's why Dr. like it so much.

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Go ahead, Jonathan.
I don't have a problem with the

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openings as a stand alone,
however it didn't really flow

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well into like the style of it
didn't flow well into the

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podcast.
It didn't feel like the same

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thing.
Yeah, I'm with you there.

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Go ahead, Cliff.
The one thing that I think is

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the intro was short enough that
I definitely agree.

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Some of those can be long and
stuff like that, but I really

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enjoyed the fact that it
communicated this is who the

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show is for.
This is what the show is about

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and it got straight to the
point.

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The one thing that it that could
happen is you could start with

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your voice, say something that
is you as the host of the show,

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and then and then cut to that
prerecorded intro that does the

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setup of who who the show is
for, what it's about, blah,

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blah, blah.
And I definitely agree, the

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energy of the voice of the host
should match the energy of the

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music that's included in the
intro.

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I love your suggestion, Cliff.
It's similar to what the episode

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we evaluated last week in the
sense that I remember we when we

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hit play, we first had a what
I'll call a cold open.

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The host came in right away
asking a question, a question

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that pertained to the episode
topic that I feel is really

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effective.
If you could make that short and

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sweet, ask a couple of questions
to get your audience thinking

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about the topic and then say
something like, that's what

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we're going to get into today.
And then boom, the music.

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Music starts, right.
So I think that is.

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Yeah, that's a wonderful
suggestion, Cliff.

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Thank you for that one.
OK, let me get into this next

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clip here.
This is what Ralph was alluding

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to.
This is what happens.

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And you'll even hear the the
tail end of the music playing.

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This is right after that intro
we just heard.

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Back to the space between the
only place to be for the

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dreamer, the doer and the
overcomer, which you guys send

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me a favorite number to iTunes
to Spotify or wherever you

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listen to podcast.
Leave it ready for the show.

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Smash out five star review for
your boy.

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I really would appreciate it.
And whenever you are ready to

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work one-on-one, get some
clarity and momentum in your

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life in regards to going for
your own dream.

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Got a special page set up for
you guys at Link with shawn.com

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Link with shawn.com you can call
Get on my Calendar.

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Pick a time that works for you.
Let's have a conversation.

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OK, so let me go to Ralph first
since Ralph brought this up.

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Ralph, do you want to elaborate
or share anymore?

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Absolutely.
So I'm going to take a position

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of I'm a new listener to this
person.

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I'm going to make an assumption
that this person knows what

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they're talking about.
That's not judgement, but I'm

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making that assumption.
But I need to hear who this

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person is.
I need to hear some St. cred.

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I need to understand what is the
value I'm getting here before

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you tell me the like and review,
man, I haven't even listened to

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your episode yet and you want me
to give you a review?

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That's great.
That's cool thing to put at the

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end, but I want to hear what is
the value to me today?

227
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:02,880
Who is this person I'm listening
to?

228
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,920
If it was Michael Jordan or if
it was somebody that was a

229
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,560
celebrity, I could see going
into that.

230
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,480
But I don't know who this person
is and it needs to launch off

231
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,280
with a story or some kind of
hook in that.

232
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,040
Here's what I do, Here's what
here's, here's my journey.

233
00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,640
Or something like that.
Yeah, I'm with you there, Ralph,

234
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,120
because it does kind of remind
me almost.

235
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,760
It's just the equivalent of a
blind LinkedIn DM that's trying

236
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,520
to sell me on something, right?
It's just all of a sudden, if

237
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,600
I'm new to this podcast and all
of a sudden I'm being pitched,

238
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,520
I'm not saying I'm going to turn
off the the podcast, but I will

239
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,440
say that a lot of listeners, I
think will hear that, but

240
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,280
they're not going to take any
action yet because of exactly

241
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,360
what you were saying.
They first want to understand

242
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,680
who they're listening to, what
they're going to get out of it.

243
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,560
And then once you've hooked
them, then they're going to be

244
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:59,240
more likely to go follow your
podcast, maybe go schedule that

245
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,120
discovery call with Sean.
So I'm with you there.

246
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,880
I think that's important.
Nick, I think you wanted to add

247
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,080
something and then I see others
want to chime in as well.

248
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,760
Good morning, good morning.
I think I get where Ralph is

249
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,560
going with it and I I do agree
and Cliff put in the chat as

250
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:18,240
well.
Every episode is somebody's

251
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,800
first episode, and that was kind
of where I wanted to go as well.

252
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,600
Like I don't think.
What?

253
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,960
He's doing in the episode is
bad.

254
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,680
Like I think he should be
promoting it just maybe a little

255
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,120
bit further down the episode or
towards the middle or after.

256
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:36,120
He's provided some value first,
but just a slight mindset shift.

257
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,640
It very much feels like he's
talking to his community like,

258
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,000
hey guys, welcome back here.
You are like everyone.

259
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,800
The assumption is that everyone
understands what's happening,

260
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,120
what he's doing now.
And I think for a vast majority,

261
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,240
if you're trying to bring in new
audience listeners, they have no

262
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,720
idea, the girl said.
They, they have no idea who you

263
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:56,720
are.
They're just tuning in for the

264
00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:02,640
first time and until you kind of
get involved inside that

265
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,480
community or get value from the
person, it's going to be really

266
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,240
hard to hear sign up for my
coach and sign up for this, do

267
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,640
this.
So I think having that mindset

268
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,720
shift of like business could be
new listeners, not necessarily

269
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,920
my current audience.
I think that could go a long

270
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,000
way.
Look, as a host, I get it.

271
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,520
It's a delicate dance.
There are two different types of

272
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:30,880
listeners we have to cater to.
We have to always assume we've

273
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,840
got a new set of ears and, or
eyes on our show.

274
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,640
And at the same time, we have a,
a recurring audience.

275
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,120
We have a community that keeps
coming back.

276
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,760
So it's hard sometimes.
I get it.

277
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,440
It can be hard sometimes.
Like who am I speaking to in

278
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,760
this moment, right?
And I think the key is just to

279
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,720
remember that you do have those
two types of listeners there.

280
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,480
And in that moment when you're
speaking to somebody, just think

281
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,640
about who is, who am I speaking
to right now?

282
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,200
Is it the newbie or is it the
veteran, the community member?

283
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,680
But I think it's just important
to think about who you're

284
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:10,040
actually speaking to when you're
directing something toward your

285
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,560
audience.
I want to check in with Billy.

286
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,320
And before I do, I just wanted
to say I agree with you, Ashley.

287
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:20,080
I saw in the chat Renee also put
the host is asking for a date

288
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,720
and I don't even know who he is.
I think that's a great analogy.

289
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,040
I agree.
All right, let's check in with

290
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,080
Billy, who's joined us on stage.
Good morning, Billy.

291
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,040
What do you want to add to this?
Good morning.

292
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,320
Well, I will take the opposite
opinion.

293
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,320
It's a mullet dude part.
It's like business in the front,

294
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,520
party in the back.
Let's do all the announcements

295
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,080
up front.
Let's get all that stuff out of

296
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,920
the way and then let's get into
the content.

297
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:45,920
And so I would weigh more and I
appreciate this about podcasters

298
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,360
who do this.
And it's just upfront.

299
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:53,000
It's to the point it's being
it's a transactional whatever.

300
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,000
And it's like, cool, now we can
move on with the with the

301
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,280
content.
I'd much rather that approach

302
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,600
then like interrupting the
conversation.

303
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,880
Pitch me about mattresses.
I think maybe what I would

304
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,359
prefer the happy medium here is
that he picked one thing to

305
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,480
promote.
And ideally, I think what would

306
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,680
work really well is, hey, if you
find yourself enjoying today's

307
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,520
episode, do me a favor, hit
pause and press that plus button

308
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,119
at the top of your Apple podcast
page or give us a follow.

309
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,520
Give this show a follow.
If you're enjoying today's

310
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,000
episode, leave it there.
And then maybe later at some

311
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,840
point in the episode, I hear
what you're saying, Bill, you

312
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,960
don't want you don't love the
interruption at some point.

313
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,800
But I think if you can work it
in, I think it can work well.

314
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,720
You know, you here is a show
where he's basically coaching

315
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,520
his audience.
So at some point he could

316
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,400
reference.
Hey, if you want to dig into

317
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,760
this deeper, if you want some
more one-on-one time about what

318
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,520
we're discussing right now, feel
free to use the link in the show

319
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,960
notes and book a discovery call
with me.

320
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,760
Something like that I think
could work well too.

321
00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,400
Sid, did you want to add
something?

322
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,320
Good morning, everybody.
I absolutely see Billy's point

323
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,000
and I don't really have a strong
opinion either way.

324
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,840
Everybody's making really valid
points about this.

325
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,200
You know, going straight for the
sale can be perceived as sleazy.

326
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,480
Just jumping in your point,
Mark.

327
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,360
He's asking us to do too many
things in the front of the show,

328
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,040
and we all fall victim to that,
if you will.

329
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,480
We're asking our audiences to do
too many things.

330
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,280
I think my real issue with that
is actually the entire episode

331
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,800
is his pacing.
He's talking too fast.

332
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,760
Like I had a hard time keeping
up with him because if you

333
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,320
listen to that, it's his pacing
is really quick.

334
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,760
And I also, this is just a
personal preference.

335
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,840
I personally don't resonate when
people refer to themselves as

336
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,160
your boy or your girl.
I don't like that.

337
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,880
And so that was something that
kind of tuned me out of it.

338
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,280
But the pacing of how he talks,
he does it the entire show is,

339
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,760
is actually really fast.
The other thing I want to just

340
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,440
say to you quickly, Mark, is
when you're playing the clip, it

341
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,640
sounds like you're holding your
phone to the microphone.

342
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,240
So it's like the clip is in a
bucket or something.

343
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,120
I don't know if it was the way
you recorded it, but Billy said

344
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:09,000
this in the chat when you play
the clip, when you turn volume

345
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,080
up so that we can hear it,
because I had to turn my volume

346
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,240
all the way up to hear the clip
and then turn it down when you

347
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,040
started talking.
Very thanks.

348
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:18,560
For having my back on that, my
boy.

349
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,840
My boy Sid having my back.
Oh my girl, Dude, yeah.

350
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,200
It is all the way up and again
we are a victim of the way that

351
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,600
Sean recorded it.
I should have thought about this

352
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,960
and record and made the clips
mono and I think that would have

353
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,680
solved the problem here live as
we play them.

354
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:38,960
So it's a good it's a good
thing.

355
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,760
Not that most people's podcasts
are going to be clipped and

356
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,280
played on other podcasts, but
it's a good lesson here that

357
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,840
Sean needs to think about the
way that he's publishing these

358
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,360
episodes and make sure that it's
in a format that's easy on the

359
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:56,480
ear and easy on technology for
that matter, too.

360
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,000
So I'll do my best here.
But like I said, I'm riding the

361
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,640
the volume on these clips all
the way up.

362
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,040
It's fascinating that I think
this is partially due to his.

363
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:09,120
Quality of the recording and
partially to do with how it's

364
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,360
coming out here on Clubhouse.
Let's talk for a second.

365
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,400
That was some common feedback
from this group as you guys sent

366
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,640
me in your feedback that it was
fast-paced.

367
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,680
And I think to the point I
didn't have a problem with the

368
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,480
pacing itself.
But I think what I was noticing

369
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,680
was he was talking so fast where
a lot of times his he was

370
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,440
swallowing his words.
He wasn't getting the words out

371
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:39,840
clearly and where I noticed that
especially is in that call to

372
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,680
action that he just shared.
When he talked about the link to

373
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,120
click on to schedule with him,
it was so fast-paced and so

374
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:52,400
mumbled because it was spoken so
quickly, I had to play it back a

375
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,160
couple of times to hear what he
had to say.

376
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,360
So yeah, I agree, slow down a
little bit, Sean.

377
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,160
I think it'll serve you and your
audience really well.

378
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,080
Alex, did you want to chime in?
Yeah, I'm glad that they brought

379
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,080
that point up because I didn't
know what it was.

380
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,640
And I was going to say he should
have a tagline, and he may very

381
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,680
well have a tagline, but I never
actually heard it because it was

382
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,000
kind of all white noise because
he was going too fast.

383
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,840
Hi.
Hi, Lucy.

384
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,840
I think we're all on the same
page there.

385
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,560
And I do want to pat him on the
back, though, because we're

386
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,000
talking all about some of the
criticisms here.

387
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,960
And we should say we've only
gotten into the 1st about I'd

388
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,960
say about minute and a half, two
minutes, like he's not taking up

389
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,200
a ton of time here with all of
this.

390
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,760
But Mark, that's the thing, I
know a lot of podcasters when

391
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,520
they first start like their
podcast episode, they kind of

392
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,440
like throw up everything because
they want to make it short.

393
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,320
The one thing that I learned
from you doing this, you're very

394
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,880
kind of intentional with that
extra pause that you have and it

395
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,440
and it does actually help when
you talk like this, when you're

396
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,600
listening as opposed to the way
I talk, which is but you know, I

397
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,360
mean, so there is something to
be said.

398
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:07,880
I know we're not trying to trash
the hole.

399
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,200
No, no.
But this is advice about pacing.

400
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,080
So yeah, I'm with you, Alex.
And we'll play a little bit more

401
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,920
in a moment where I think he
does a little bit better of a

402
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,040
job where sometimes he'll talk
faster.

403
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,400
And I think I do this too.
And like you said, most of the

404
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,200
time it's intentional.
I'll talk fast for a bit and

405
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,080
then I'll stop and slow things
down for a second.

406
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,640
I think there that helps our
brains as as the audience.

407
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,680
It helps our brains catch up.
It helps us process.

408
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,080
Yes, Dr., go ahead.
Just a little behind the scenes

409
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:47,920
info for everyone, Both Ashley
and I, we landed somehow on a

410
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,880
different episode and it was the
same episode that we had landed

411
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,720
on, but it's not the one that
was for this eval.

412
00:22:56,120 --> 00:23:01,480
And we listened to it and we
evaluated it and he has the same

413
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,760
very quick kind of morning DJ
kind of talk.

414
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,560
But there was one point in that
other episode that he slowed

415
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:19,720
down and he took a pause and I'm
telling you, I leaned in.

416
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:25,960
I was like, what's happening?
Because out of that fast-paced,

417
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,040
Oh my God, Oh my God.
And then all of a sudden, the

418
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,880
pause, it was amazing and it was
powerful and it made an impact.

419
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,720
Thanks for calling that out.
And yes, that it's funny that

420
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,000
you and Ashley both listened at
the titles of the two episodes,

421
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,280
the correct one to listen to
today and the one that you guys

422
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,400
listen to, the titles were
similar, They started similar

423
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,280
similarly.
And that's another issue.

424
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,360
True, true.
Especially if they're very close

425
00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:56,280
together.
Yeah, that could be another

426
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,720
issue.
Good to try to keep a variety

427
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,480
when possible.
Absolutely.

428
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:07,280
OK, let me play this next clip.
This is again, we're actually

429
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,320
going in order here.
So now he's just finished

430
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:14,320
pitching us a little bit, and
now he's actually going to tell

431
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,280
us a little bit about what we're
going to get into want.

432
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,240
To talk to you guys today about
something that I think

433
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,560
everybody's going to come in
contact with in regards to

434
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,720
pursuing your goal or dream or
starting on a different

435
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,240
entrepreneurial path.
The path less desired to walk in

436
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,400
life as it may because why?
Because everybody else is doing

437
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,120
the same thing.
It's a crowded path.

438
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,240
When you start venturing down
this entrepreneurial Rd. you'll

439
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,200
notice that not a whole lot of
people around here, man, not a

440
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,400
whole lot of people are willing
to put themselves through what

441
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,400
you're willing to put yourself
through to have a life that most

442
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,640
people will never, ever have.
And that's OK.

443
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,440
You don't want to lie that
everybody else has.

444
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,800
I don't want to lie everybody
else has.

445
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,480
Why?
Because that's my prerogative.

446
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,080
Like Bobby Brown, I do what I
want to do.

447
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,600
That's my life.
I've always marched to the beat

448
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,400
of a different drum.
You listen to this podcast,

449
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,600
that's probably you as well.
You just kind of feel like you

450
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,000
don't really do what everybody
else is doing.

451
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,480
You know?
Why did you go to work every day

452
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:07,640
everybody else is doing?
I don't know why.

453
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,240
Why do you want to do what
everybody else is doing?

454
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,960
Why would you want to be vanilla
ice cream?

455
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,080
Why, why, why, why, I don't
know.

456
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,480
Good question.
But here's the thing guys, going

457
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,480
down that path less traveled
fear is going to creep up more

458
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,800
often than not.
You know the whole adage of

459
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,800
fear, false evidence appearing
real.

460
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,800
I mean, fear is there to protect
you.

461
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,520
Your mind is there to protect
you from doing something

462
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,920
uncomfortable.
Your, your mind kind of always

463
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,200
goes to the familiar.
So you're familiar with doing

464
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,520
something one way and it's
comfortable.

465
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,120
Your mind wants to stay there.
Why?

466
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:42,080
Because your mind is just trying
to consume calories or consume

467
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,040
burning calories.
That's it.

468
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:47,080
Your your brain wants to do as
less work as possible.

469
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,640
OK, first I failed as a host.
And I should have said at the

470
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,040
top of all of this, the name of
this episode that we're

471
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,120
evaluating motivation from not
letting fear control you.

472
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,880
That's the name of this episode.
And I should have gotten that

473
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,360
cue when Dr. called out the fact
that they listened to the wrong

474
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:09,560
episode and we were talking
about the titles being similar.

475
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,800
And I never said it, and I
didn't say it at the top either.

476
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:17,200
So shame on me.
OK, so that was the start and

477
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,200
I'll ask a question, but I know
Jonathan wants to chime in.

478
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,000
My question really to the group
is could anybody right now tell

479
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,720
me what that episode is about?
Granted, I told you the title,

480
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,040
but do you know based on that,
what was it?

481
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,160
Maybe minute and under 90
seconds of a setup?

482
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,160
So with that, I'm going to go to
Jonathan and give him the floor.

483
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,680
Go ahead, Jonathan.
Yeah, I'm going to say no to

484
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,880
your question there.
It was a lot of advice, but it

485
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,200
wasn't specific advice.
And that's where this is where

486
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,960
it started to fall a little bit
apart from me.

487
00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:55,400
He's got a lot of great
information and he's doing a lot

488
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,080
with it, but it wasn't specific
enough to let me know what was

489
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,680
happening, let me know who it
was for, and actually be

490
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,280
valuable advice for a specific
person.

491
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,720
Like, I thought it was very good
overarching advice that you

492
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,880
might get if they don't know who
they're talking to.

493
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:15,240
And I think that's where it fell
apart a little bit for me.

494
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,360
Like there needs to be a focus
on who he's helping.

495
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,560
Thank you for that, Jonathan.
And I know later in today's show

496
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,640
we're going to play a clip that
you suggested we play that you

497
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,880
think would help if it maybe it
happened earlier.

498
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,640
I'll explain in a moment.
Let me check in with the crew.

499
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,720
Go ahead, Ralph.
I mean this in a very gracious

500
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,800
way, I felt like 14 minutes
after listening to this, it was

501
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,600
just rambling of platitudes and
all of those things in their in

502
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,560
themselves are great things to
talk about.

503
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,440
But if he just had some
structure and if he had a plan

504
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,640
of what his goal was the the key
take away for the episode, then

505
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,360
I think he could have made all
that work.

506
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,160
OK, that's a fairpoint.
I think.

507
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,080
What if I were to sum up
everything you're saying is

508
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,560
adding a little more structure,
having an outline perhaps, and

509
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,320
maybe he does, right?
I'm making an assumption here.

510
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,840
But even if he does, I think the
outline it would benefit him to

511
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,600
just have a clear path for him
to follow.

512
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,280
Just include, you know, bullet
point story, bullet point

513
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,880
advice, bullet point story,
bullet point advice, what

514
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,680
however it looks to you, but to
have that road map as the host.

515
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,480
But Mark, that's part of it too.
Like there was no story.

516
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,400
There was no, here's what I went
through, here's what I've done,

517
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,800
here's what we we hear that he
did it, but we don't have any

518
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,840
why in that?
And it's, it leaves me like, OK,

519
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,280
who is this guy?
What is his journey?

520
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,280
What is the value he's giving
me?

521
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,640
Fairpoint and Jonathan, I think
that this then I'm going to play

522
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:53,760
before we move into the branding
area of the podcast, I am going

523
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,600
to play that clip that I teased
that Jonathan suggested and then

524
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,160
we'll hear from Jonathan about
that.

525
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,720
But before I do, I saw Cliff
wanted to add something as well.

526
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,160
Go ahead, Cliff.
I just wanted to say what I

527
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,880
heard, if I were to summarize in
this last section, is wow.

528
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,880
As you know, it is so crowded
out there because everybody's

529
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,760
doing what you're doing.
But then all of a sudden we had

530
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,120
a complete 180 turn.
By the way, nobody's out there

531
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,160
willing to do what you're
willing to do.

532
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,120
And all, by the way, fear will
get in you every single time and

533
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,960
all, by the way, the mind is
trying to conserve energy.

534
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,360
But why are you telling me any
of this?

535
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,040
Again, that goes back to some
other points too.

536
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,720
Really understanding the
sharing, the why is so important

537
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,960
in this case.
I do want to also say, by the

538
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,840
way, that I think Sean has a
wonderful radio voice.

539
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,160
And I think if he can just
adjust that pacing a little bit

540
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,520
and maybe the dictation a little
bit, he would be phenomenal.

541
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,240
And there is something also to
be said about the confidence

542
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,360
that comes through his voice.
And Dave in the chat is saying

543
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,720
maybe more effort first
connecting to the listener, less

544
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,440
trying to impress us.
OK.

545
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,160
And Sean, by the way, if I'm
sure you're listening and this

546
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,840
is all out of love and respect,
we want to improve this show for

547
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,880
you as best we can.
And we'll get to it in a moment.

548
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,960
Jonathan has a really good
point, a good direction for you.

549
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,240
But first, let's hear from Sid.
Go ahead, Sid.

550
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,600
I think that this conversation
about structure outlined all

551
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,400
really valuable.
I think he could could have said

552
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,920
something along the lines of
today we're going to talk about

553
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,200
the one thing that stops most
entrepreneurs in their journey

554
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,480
and that's fear.
And I'm going to tell you three

555
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,040
ways to overcome fear in your
journey so that it doesn't stop

556
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,440
you.
But first, let me tell you how I

557
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,640
experienced fear.
And then we get into him and we

558
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,040
know what what?
There was a moment for him that

559
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,920
fear stopped him from doing
something.

560
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,680
And then he can share his story
with us.

561
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,360
We get to know him, and then we
all of a sudden get to identify

562
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,840
with him because every one of us
in this room is an entrepreneur

563
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,240
and we all understand fear.
So we're going to understand

564
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,840
this story, and then we're going
to get his tips to overcome fear

565
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,320
along our journey.
That simple little change in the

566
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,680
structure would make this
episode so much more impactful.

567
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,560
Thank you, Sid.
I'm going to go to you, Jonathan

568
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:24,360
now because aside from this clip
that we're going to play, you

569
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,880
had a lot of positive things to
say about this podcast and this

570
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,320
podcaster.
And we talked about it privately

571
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,280
as well.
And you said multiple times to

572
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,080
me, this show has so much
potential.

573
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,000
So would you mind setting up
this clip for us and then I'll

574
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,200
play it?
The clip that I suggested

575
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,840
actually happens very close to
the end of the episode, and it

576
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,160
does exactly what Sid was asking
for.

577
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,560
It tells a little bit of a story
because facts don't matter ever,

578
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,360
really.
We don't remember facts, we

579
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,680
remember stories.
And to get to jump in at the

580
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,240
beginning of the podcast with
his story, and I honestly think

581
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,280
that this should have been the
hook for the entire episode.

582
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,640
It will help to give the whole
entire episode structure.

583
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,280
And if he had that that
structure and built off of the

584
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,480
story, I think it could have
been an amazing episode.

585
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,240
Let's hear the clip.
You don't think I was freaking

586
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,440
scared as hell sitting in the
bank going?

587
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,360
What the hell are you doing,
McClellan?

588
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,400
What are you doing?
I had no idea what I was paying

589
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:23,640
for.
I had no idea.

590
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,960
I know.
I had no clue what I was getting

591
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,560
myself into.
Here's what I knew.

592
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,880
I knew that I was willing to put
in the work.

593
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,120
I knew that I was willing to be
coachable.

594
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,040
I knew that this person could
help me because I listened to

595
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,000
them for six years, motivate me,
encourage me and tell me to get

596
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,160
out of my own damn way, get out
of my own head and just take a

597
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,920
shot.
I knew I could trust him.

598
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,640
That's it, man.
I could trust him, you know?

599
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,560
I could trust myself for the
first time in a long time.

600
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,760
I could trust myself to do the
work.

601
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,560
But fear, Yeah, there's been a
lot of fear from moments on this

602
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,240
journey.
I can't let that stop me.

603
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,440
I have to notice the fear when
it comes and recognize that this

604
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,440
area of opportunity I need to
focus on to grow.

605
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,760
I really would have liked to see
was him tighten up that story a

606
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,280
little bit and put it right,
smack the front of the episode.

607
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:24,200
Start with that and then expound
on the episode from that story.

608
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,520
Give us specifics because what
he did and it's why they're, you

609
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,480
know, rambling of the
platitudes.

610
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,920
What he did was he gave a lot of
advice that is valuable if

611
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,680
there's a reference point for it
and there's a specific person

612
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,280
that you're helping.
Because specifics allow your

613
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,360
audience to latch on.
Because when we heard that

614
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,520
story, we could say, Oh my God,
that's, that's what I went

615
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,440
through.
And that's going to get them to

616
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,480
actually pay more attention to
it.

617
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,280
They're going to pay attention
to those things that they

618
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,160
connect with, that they see in
themselves.

619
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,920
He was giving a lot of broad
stuff, and that gives every

620
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,360
single listener the opportunity
to say he's not talking about

621
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,560
me.
And that's not going to help him

622
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,480
land any coaching clients.
Thank you, Jonathan.

623
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,600
I think this is wonderful
advice.

624
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,639
I hope it's well received from
Sean.

625
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:16,120
Yeah, leading with a story that
is packed with advice within the

626
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,480
story, lessons learned from the
story.

627
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,880
I think that is a great way to
connect with the audience.

628
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,400
Going back to what Dave was
saying, making that effort to

629
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,639
connect with your listener and
Sid in the chat puts the pacing

630
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,719
in This clip is so much better,
makes you lean in.

631
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,360
And I think maybe that's similar
to what Dr. was pointing out

632
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,600
about another episode she had
listened to, I think that same

633
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,360
type of style.
And Renee, thank you for the the

634
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,000
great feedback in the chat
saying I'm learning so much from

635
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,639
these critiques.
I'm glad we are having a blast

636
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,800
doing them.
So I'm glad that they are being

637
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,000
received well.
Yes, I think there's something

638
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,760
to be said for what Sid and and
Jonathan were saying, the buy

639
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,840
in.
Like do we have buy in by that

640
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,080
time?
If it's 10 minutes into it and

641
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,480
he has this great story, is it
lost?

642
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,840
Because as good as that clip
was, it's like, OK, great.

643
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,680
Why are you telling me all this?
And again, I know I'm being

644
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,720
extra harsh because I really
didn't listen to the to all the

645
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:17,760
episodes.
I'm more criticizing myself

646
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,680
because I'm hearing myself in
this a lot.

647
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,200
That's why.
Maybe I'm being a little overly.

648
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:23,840
Because I think he's got a lot
to say.

649
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,320
It's just, it's just the
structure.

650
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,160
Thank you, Ralph, did you have
something else?

651
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,800
I did.
I actually had a different feel

652
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,800
when I listened to that clip.
Now, I've listened to this three

653
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,000
Times Now after today.
And as soon as he said $10,000,

654
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,840
I felt icky.
It shouted me back to what he

655
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,120
said at the beginning of the
episode.

656
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,160
And I said, is he fixing to try
to sell me a $10,000 coaching

657
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,440
program?
And what he said was he had no

658
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,840
idea what he was doing.
But then he contradicts himself

659
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,000
and said I listened to this guy
for six years.

660
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,440
If he had tightened that up and
said because that would have

661
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:58,680
been a great, a great on ramp to
his coaching program, But

662
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,480
leading with 10,000 and making a
statement that I know no idea

663
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,880
what I was getting into, and
then contradicting yourself and

664
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,080
saying I listened to this guy
for six years.

665
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,920
He could have made that a huge
trumpet to get people into his

666
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,800
coaching program.
Because here's a very

667
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,120
constructive thing.
The things he said throughout

668
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,400
that are all things all of us
could learn from.

669
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:20,080
Yeah.
So I think they're for Sean to

670
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,280
think about is just perception,
how some people may perceive it.

671
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,000
I'm sure not everybody perceives
it that way, but I think that I

672
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,720
don't think Ralph is alone
either.

673
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:33,920
Again, that so that does go back
to, you know, when you start

674
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,600
pitching right out of the gate,
some people then may start

675
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,840
thinking the rest of the episode
might feel like a pitch to them.

676
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,600
It's just something to think
about.

677
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,000
And again, you can't please
everyone, right?

678
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,080
So it's just a matter of if that
resonates with Sean to to

679
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,880
consider a little bit of a
restructure.

680
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,200
I think there were really good
aspects of that story and I

681
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:00,080
think the $10,000, the only
thing that because what I felt

682
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,400
that did was it brought, you
know, some gravity to what his

683
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,240
fear was.
And I think that was important

684
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:09,680
to be there.
If he hadn't tried to sell at

685
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,800
the beginning, then I think that
would have felt much better.

686
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,520
And actually, if that had been
right at the beginning, it would

687
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:16,640
have felt much better.
Right.

688
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:20,600
Yeah, because ultimately what he
was explaining in that clip is

689
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,880
he was fearful of dropping 10
grand and he was walking us

690
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,680
through that that fear and he
was walking us through the

691
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,320
resolution that he came to.
And that was the value.

692
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,640
That was the lesson.
OK, then since we're playing

693
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,800
clips, I am going to play one
more.

694
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,520
I was going to wait and save
this for the technical side of

695
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,440
things, but I know we're also
getting short on time.

696
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,680
But this is a clip I, I think
several people suggested, but I

697
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,800
think Ashley, you were the at
least the first one I saw that

698
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,040
suggested it.
So that's I guess why I'm

699
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,880
calling you out.
But this is around mic

700
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,320
technique.
When you start venturing down

701
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,400
this entrepreneurial Rd. you'll
notice it.

702
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:03,760
Not a whole lot of people around
here, man.

703
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,400
Not a whole lot of people are
willing to put themselves

704
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,160
through what you're willing to
put yourself through to have a

705
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,440
life that most people will
never, ever have.

706
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,280
And that's OK.
You don't want to lie to your

707
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:15,920
body on test.
I don't want to lie to your body

708
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:16,560
on test.
Why?

709
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,920
Because that's my prerogative.
Like Bobby Brown.

710
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,920
So if you are a podcaster for
any amount of time, you probably

711
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:29,120
noticed the plosives.
The plosives, Ashley, did you

712
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,400
want to share a little bit about
that?

713
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,040
Sure.
I just.

714
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,120
Think that what could help is
maybe putting the mic a little

715
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:40,320
bit further away into the side,
because when you say plosives,

716
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,400
you're putting a lot of air onto
the mic and you can really hear

717
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,440
that.
Same with FS plosives and

718
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,680
fricatives both put a lot of air
on the mic and it can be

719
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,440
distracting.
Yeah.

720
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,560
So I think leaning back a little
bit from the mic or getting

721
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,160
yourself a a better windscreen,
a foam covering for the mic, I

722
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,280
don't know what kind of mic
you're using, Sean, But yeah, I

723
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,440
think getting backing up a
little bit from the mic and

724
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:08,920
protecting the mic from those
plosives would be helpful.

725
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,640
Yeah, Cliff, go ahead.
The way that I've always

726
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,840
suggested is a little bit of the
opposite.

727
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,640
I actually tell people to get
really close to that mic with

728
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,840
ideally within one inch of the
actual mic.

729
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:27,960
However, the important thing is
that the mic is never in front

730
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,440
of your mouth, but it is.
It is literally right next to

731
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:36,280
your mouth, pointed at your
mouth so that all of your wind

732
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:40,360
goes straight past the
microphone and the and it's

733
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,840
close enough to capture that
audio as it's coming out.

734
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:45,840
Thank you, Cliff.
It's so funny.

735
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,320
Thank you for saying that.
It's so funny because here I am

736
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,120
not giving that advice yet.
I'm staring at myself on the

737
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,840
screen right now and that's
exactly how I have my mic set

738
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:55,880
up.
And then it was very

739
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,840
intentionally set up that way,
but they're here.

740
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,040
I am forgetting to share that.
So I'm glad you're here.

741
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,800
And The thing is, is anytime we
tell somebody to back up from

742
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,160
that mic, we introduce more
audio noise from the background.

743
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,120
Yeah, agreed.
And I am.

744
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,680
I'm about an inch away from it
and it is off to the side a a

745
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,040
little bit.
And you're right, if I back up

746
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,560
now, I'm sure some of you can
tell.

747
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,000
It's just it doesn't sound quite
the same.

748
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,520
It's a little more hollow,
right?

749
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,640
And then when I lean in and get
to about an inch away, it's much

750
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,200
more rich in sound and I'm not
popping my peas.

751
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:34,680
Go ahead, Sid.
Yeah.

752
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:39,920
I just have a question about
this boom arm or stand which is

753
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,800
because my I have a boom arm
that is rickety and I need to

754
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,720
get a new one that I've been
thinking about this so I get

755
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:49,280
another boom arm or do I get a
stand to accomplish what both of

756
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,400
you are talking about?
I just invited Janae up because

757
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,200
I thought Janae would be a great
person to answer that.

758
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,720
I think, you know, I actually
was thinking.

759
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:02,200
I have been thinking lately.
Neither.

760
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,840
I've been thinking.
Why aren't more of us just using

761
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,520
lapel mics?
Because they're just so, well,

762
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,480
OK, Tell me why, Cliff.
Oh my gosh, lapel makes mostly

763
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,040
condenser and also more than an
inch away from your mouth.

764
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:22,080
Brings in more room echo, more
ambient room audio noise.

765
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:27,200
Certainly there are people who
focus on how they look on camera

766
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,520
and they prefer not to have the
thing, but man lapel microphones

767
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,840
cannot carry the full body
resonance of your voice.

768
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,200
Interesting.
Yeah.

769
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:38,400
So I don't want to say I
disagree.

770
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,080
I think maybe why I in, you
know, anybody can tell.

771
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,360
I don't generally use a lapel
mic.

772
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:50,280
But when I was ATV producer
handful of years ago, that's all

773
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,560
we used, right, 'cause we that
was all on camera stuff and and

774
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,280
that's how they preferred to do
the microphone thing and it

775
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,040
always sounded great, right.
But, and maybe that's just

776
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,880
because we were using some top
of the line equipment.

777
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,800
It sounded great, you think, but
I promise you this.

778
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,160
Go take any of those old
television programs that you

779
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,120
were a part of and strip the
audio and go for a walk and

780
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,160
listen to it.
You want to expand further?

781
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,200
What?
What will I find?

782
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:22,560
What I think you'll find is that
when you are viewing video and

783
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,960
and the data that's coming into
your brain to consume is mostly

784
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,480
visual, you will overlook the
audio quality.

785
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,240
But if you think about a
podcast, even though today

786
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,720
there's a lot more video that's
happening in the space of

787
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:40,760
podcasting, most people still
consume podcast in audio form.

788
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,600
And I can tell you right now
that the audio quality of a

789
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:51,000
lapel microphone can never give
you the quality of a microphone

790
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,920
one inch away from your mouth
right up there.

791
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,240
It's night and day difference.
OK, fair enough.

792
00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:00,320
So I think then and thank you,
Cliff, I appreciate your take on

793
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,760
that.
And so to answer Sid's question,

794
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:09,240
I think if you're thinking about
boom Mike versus Mike stand,

795
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,440
the, the, the only reason really
I see for for a boom Mike is

796
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,200
just to keep the microphone out
of the picture altogether.

797
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,640
So if that's what's important to
you, then maybe you want to

798
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,880
experiment with that.
But my personal taste is to have

799
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:29,600
a have an arm or a stand, right?
Like I use a low profile arm so

800
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,320
that it's not taking up a lot of
the, the video.

801
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,480
All due respect to Alex
Sanfilippo, he uses an arm, but

802
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,400
he's not using a low profile
arm.

803
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,800
And it's always just coming
right across the screen and it

804
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,200
distracts me personally.
So I like to have, if you're

805
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,720
going to use an arm, if you're
going to use a stand, I just

806
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:54,480
like to make sure it's as
inconspicuous as it can be and I

807
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,560
would lean toward an arm or a
stand.

808
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,720
Well, I just wanted to say that
I've been on my lapel mic the

809
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,160
entire episode.
It's the one of the Rode lapel

810
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,320
mics.
It's actually I'm sure it's not

811
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,520
as good as my plug in mic, but
it's.

812
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,360
You sound clear, You sound
clear.

813
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:16,120
And yeah, but it's probably not
as high quality or just not as

814
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,600
quality as a regular, a regular
mic.

815
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,240
But still, yeah, it sounds, it
sounds good.

816
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,360
I mean, I'm walking around my
house, so.

817
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,800
Hopefully that's nice too.
That's convenient.

818
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,040
Janae has joined us.
Janae, do you agree with the

819
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:35,800
idea of a boom arm, mic stand,
etcetera or do you think which

820
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,200
of those do you think is better?
Hey, good morning, everyone.

821
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,280
Each of those microphones have a
purpose and like Cliff said, you

822
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,480
know there are different things
that they are capturing.

823
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,960
A boom arm is really great
because you can move the

824
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,680
microphone away from you when
you're done recording your

825
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:58,120
podcast and back to work.
Mike stand might capture some of

826
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,720
those bumps on the desk.
So again, those are some of the

827
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:02,920
things that you want to think
about now.

828
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:07,480
Lapel mic is also great because
especially how close it is from

829
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,320
you and how much equalizer work
you're putting into it, which

830
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,880
means that some of these Rd.
caster pros have equalizers and

831
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,640
parametric parametric equalizer
available where you can cut out

832
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,400
the noise, you can cut out the
bass, you can cut out some of

833
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,960
the things that so it's only
sending in your volume and based

834
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:34,200
on what Cliff said the and what
you mentioned also mark the

835
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,040
microphones that are used at the
studio.

836
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:42,000
They're not just capturing the
mic, the audio from the lapel

837
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,720
mic, right, They also have boom
mic.

838
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:47,800
So they're they're capturing
audio multiple sources, but then

839
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,760
it's also going through a ton of
processing compressors and

840
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,200
equalizers and all those things
which most of us don't really

841
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,480
have access to, right?
Or unless we want to spend the

842
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,400
big bucks.
So from that perspective and

843
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:07,560
where you want to be a cost
effective way, the best way to

844
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,480
is to get a microphone that
works for you and again, test

845
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,400
multiple different types of
microphones.

846
00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:16,120
That makes sense.
And as I'm listening to the

847
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,320
conversation and the clips that
you've played this gentleman,

848
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:24,040
he's looks like he's very
animated from the audio as well

849
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,160
because he's moving around and I
haven't seen the video, but just

850
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,960
listening to the audio alone, I
was like, OK, this guy needs

851
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,200
some kind of shotgun mic that's
just pointing at him and he can

852
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:39,360
just be animated all around the
whole show and you'll hear him

853
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,120
really nice and clear.
That's.

854
00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:44,360
Thank you, Janae.
Great advice.

855
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:46,520
Appreciate that.
All right.

856
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,640
I wanted with these last several
minutes of the show, I want to

857
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,680
talk a little bit.
Let's zoom out a little bit.

858
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,000
I think we've given plenty of
advice on the episode itself.

859
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,200
Let's talk a little bit about
the branding and discoverability

860
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,600
of this show.
As we've said, the name of the

861
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:08,360
show is the space between.
Does that land for you?

862
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:13,480
Do we think that that title is
going to be effective for

863
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,240
discoverability as far as his
target audience goes?

864
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:19,560
Yes, DRI.
Think that maybe there's an

865
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:27,160
opportunity to get more eyes on
that title if he were to change

866
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,040
it in some way.
Now I will tell you that one of

867
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:35,800
the as a, as a podcast producer,
one of the my big resources that

868
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,880
I use is Pod news.
James Cridland, I hope you're

869
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,120
listening.
There is a tiny, tiny little

870
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,960
field in the upper right hand
corner of the screen and it's

871
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,960
super tiny.
But if you put the name of a

872
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:56,880
podcast in that field, up will
come basically your podcast, you

873
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:02,400
click on the cover art and up
will come a lot of information.

874
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:07,720
For instance, I was trying to
figure out who was his host, Was

875
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:10,400
it Lipson?
Was it Buzz Sprout was and

876
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:16,000
something came up that said this
page is not it's no longer with

877
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,400
us or something like that, which
was the first time I've ever

878
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,000
seen that.
And I use this resource a lot

879
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:30,040
and it just floored me.
So I think there's, I think

880
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:35,000
there's an issue with the name
#1 like 30 other podcasts with

881
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,680
the same name came up.
That's a problem.

882
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,520
That's something I noticed as
well.

883
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:42,200
Yeah.
When searching for his podcast,

884
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,440
I noticed a couple of things.
One, yeah, like you said, I

885
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,280
noticed a lot of shows called
the space between or a variation

886
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,800
of which, you know, that could
be a problem for him.

887
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,640
I noticed that.
And I noticed when I was

888
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,160
searching on some platforms,
like I think I was searching for

889
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,280
it on Apple podcast and it
didn't come up.

890
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,960
That's a little startling too.
And also, and I think you told

891
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,960
me this too, some platforms, we
weren't finding it on a lot of

892
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,400
platforms not.
Just Apple.

893
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,440
Exactly exactly.
So I'm wondering if he's

894
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,480
self-publishing or something
like that.

895
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,240
I'm not.
I'm not quite sure.

896
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,960
I would take a look at what he
has.

897
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,200
If I'm Sean, I'm looking at, you
know, where have I connected my

898
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:27,120
show, what platforms have I
connected them to all, at least

899
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,440
the major platforms and is it
working?

900
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:35,160
I think that's a big area for
him to explore and make sure

901
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,800
it's all set up properly because
I think if it, because it's

902
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,000
something is messed up, we don't
know what it is or who messed it

903
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,400
up, whether it's a user error or
a platform error.

904
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,440
But the bottom line is that's
killing his discoverability.

905
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,920
And I think that the name the
space between like I I get it.

906
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,360
Especially after reading the
description it makes sense.

907
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,160
But I think.
On its own are people.

908
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,320
Going to really know what it is
when they're, even if they're in

909
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,600
like the mental health category
or in health and fitness

910
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,520
category, you know, they don't
know what the show is based on

911
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,120
the title.
Right, so my little test is if

912
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,080
I'm at a bar, always includes a
bar.

913
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,240
If I'm in a bar and I'm talking
to someone and someone says,

914
00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:19,760
hey, what's the name of your
podcast?

915
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:24,360
And I say the space between if
they have to ask me, oh wow,

916
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,080
what's what's it about then?
The title is not doing its job.

917
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,080
I'm thinking about your show
that's yet to be put out.

918
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,800
Yeah.
You would say podcast help desk.

919
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,000
That's going to give somebody a
very clear idea of what it is.

920
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,320
Janae, did you want to chime in?
I.

921
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,560
Clicked on the link that's in
here on Cliff House.

922
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:47,960
I went to the website and I
tapped on the Apple podcast logo

923
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,040
that he has and here I'm seeing
the name of the podcast is

924
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,480
motivation, comma, inspiration,
comma, purpose, comma, passion,

925
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,320
comma from the space between
with McClellan.

926
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,840
So it's clearly him.
He's clearly using keywords to

927
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,640
lead right with with the title.
But I think it's really that

928
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,720
that could be a problem too.
I hear what you're saying.

929
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,000
Right.
So in the whoever his host is,

930
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,000
if he has a host, whoever's host
is, I think he's putting all of

931
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,840
those words in the title field
instead of putting those words

932
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,800
in the description.
Somebody might search in a Apple

933
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:33,720
podcast library, they may search
motivational, or they may search

934
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:36,000
inspirational.
I think he's probably hoping

935
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:41,120
that that will boost his to the
top, but I don't think that

936
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:42,680
that's, you know, those those
are such.

937
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,840
Generic.
Words and it's confusing at the

938
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,280
same time.
I would encourage him to think

939
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,080
about yeah, absolutely.
If he's going to keep the name,

940
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,920
I think lead with the name.
And I do want to compliment him.

941
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,360
I like his logo.
It's eye-catching.

942
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,200
I love his logo I.
Love the colors.

943
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,400
Yeah, the black and blue.
I mean, maybe that's, I'm being

944
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,040
partial because those are
similar to the colors I use in

945
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,520
in Ironic Media's logo.
But I do like that.

946
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,400
And yes, there's a microphone
there.

947
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,480
I know to some podcasters, it's
a big pet peeve to include a

948
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:18,320
microphone in your podcast logo.
I'd probably remove it.

949
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,680
I just because I don't think
it's necessary.

950
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,120
And you can make the letters
bigger on the on the tile

951
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,600
itself, But yeah.
So I think all of those words,

952
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,680
the all those keywords motivate.
I think he could use some of

953
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,160
those in a subtitle or a title
extension.

954
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,560
I think that's probably where it
would be of good use.

955
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,600
And also, we're talking about
branding.

956
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,880
So I want to talk just a little
bit about his website.

957
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,920
The black.
I love the colors because, well,

958
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,760
that's neither here nor there.
But when you see the website,

959
00:52:54,760 --> 00:53:02,560
it's very difficult to see that
the the writing the text because

960
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,640
I think it's too thin.
It's that blue color against the

961
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,560
black and it the blue is too
thin for me.

962
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:14,440
I think if it was just a little
thicker text it would be so much

963
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:15,960
better.
One of the other things I

964
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,120
noticed Dr. Thank you for that.
One of the other things I

965
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:22,200
noticed about the website is
because of the color scheme, the

966
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:25,640
a lot of the hyperlinks are kind
of hidden.

967
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,320
You can't see them because
they're blending in with the

968
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,360
background color.
And that's going to really be a

969
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,960
challenge for him as far as
getting more downloads, more

970
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,720
plays, people digging into more
episodes.

971
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:40,880
Because literally the link that
says on the on the right side of

972
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,840
the web page that says more
episodes, you don't see anything

973
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:46,600
there.
You can't tell where to click,

974
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:51,640
how to go to see more episodes.
So that's something to really be

975
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:53,120
mindful of.
OK.

976
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,160
So with that though, I will say
thank you to Sean.

977
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:00,560
Thank you for allowing us to
share our feedback, constructive

978
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:04,040
criticism, etcetera.
And if you had to take away one

979
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:08,320
thing today, I think the biggest
thing I would say to you is

980
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,400
thinking about that structure
because it did come up several

981
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,840
times.
It's so important to have an

982
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,520
outline and have one that really
helps you move the needle

983
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,400
forward to keep pushing the
episode forward.

984
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,200
Understand your structure.
It doesn't have to be extremely

985
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:31,720
detailed, but it does need to
keep you moving toward the

986
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,080
moving in the right direction.
So I encourage you to start

987
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,800
there, if nothing else, and
let's see how you're doing and

988
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:44,720
please check back in and let's
see as you make changes,

989
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:49,120
improvements, etcetera, we want
to follow along and see what

990
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,000
you're up to.
So thank you again to Sean

991
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,000
McClellan, that podcast, the
space between.

992
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,200
We will have links in the show
notes to check it out and

993
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,320
support this community member.
Big shout out.

994
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,320
Thank you to Cliff for being a
part of this one.

995
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,080
Again, we love having you here
and hope you can keep joining us

996
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,960
whenever you can on Thursdays
for these evaluations and any

997
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,080
day of the week you'd like to
join us.

998
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,440
We are back tomorrow, 7:00 AM
Eastern, wrapping up the week

999
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,320
with our wins from the week, but
also talking all things

1000
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:22,080
podcasting as well.
Come join us 7:00 AM live here

1001
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,560
on Clubhouse, YouTube, Facebook,
etcetera.

1002
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,440
And if you can't, that's OK, you
can pick up the podcast just a

1003
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,280
couple hours later.
Until tomorrow.

1004
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,400
Make it a great day everybody.
Take care.