385 -Why Your Guest Outreach Is Getting Ignored

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Good morning, podcasting morning
chat.

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Today is Thursday, October 9th,
2025.

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And today it's Thursday, which
means we're playing a clip from

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another podcaster.
This one's all about why your

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guest outreach might be getting
ignored.

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We'll break it down, share our
take and add our own tips too.

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So if you're listening live on
Clubhouse, hit the share button,

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bottom left hand, side of the
screen and share it.

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However Clubhouse lets you.
And if you're catching us via

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podcast or YouTube, please share
this episode with a fellow

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podcaster.
And now give us about 30 seconds

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and we'll get things rolling.
Thanks for being here.

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Good morning again podcasting
Morning Chat.

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I am your host Mark Ronick and
currently on stage with me.

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We have Nick Naul back, producer
Ashley Feller, Dr. Faye and Sid

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Meadows, and I'm sure we're
gonna hear and see more of the

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cast and crew here in just a
moment.

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And as I said, it is the here's
the unofficial name.

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It is Clip Thursday.
I don't know it.

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It seems to work for me, the
name.

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But at the same time, it seems
very literal.

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And I don't want to get too
clever either.

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So I'm just resting here for a
moment on that name.

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We'll see if it sticks or not.
Do you want to say something,

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Dr. Well, I'm a sucker for
alliteration, so I'm trying to

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come up with something that
begins with a TH.

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Right.
You know, sip Thursday.

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How's that?
So we do have actually 2 clips

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but we'll see how long we go
with this first clip.

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But if we have extra time we'll
play another clip as well.

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And we have some other stuff to
get to 1st yesterday.

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As some of you know, Wednesdays
we do news and comment.

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We talk about all the headlines
around the world of podcasting

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and content creation, and there
was one story we did not get to,

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and Dr. brought it up to me this
morning.

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And I think I think it's
important to at least start the

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show talking about this, 'cause
this is news in the world of

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podcasting and it deserves a
little attention.

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Go ahead, dear.
Yeah.

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So we all knew it was coming,
but now it's really happening.

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WTF with Marc Maron launched
back in 2009 and became one of

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the most influential podcasts in
modern history.

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It was known for its raw,
emotional, honest interviews and

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no holds barred storytelling.
The show helped redefine

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podcasting as a medium for
vulnerability, cultural

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commentary, and deep human
connection.

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Over 16 years and 1600 episodes.
WTF featured guests ranging from

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Barack Obama to Robin Williams,
blending comedy, philosophy and

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pain into unforgettable
conversations.

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So he hosted these episodes from
his garage, or as he calls it,

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the Cat Ranch.
Marc Maron made the intimate

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feel iconic.
The show ends this coming

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Monday.
I guess a little emotional.

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I'm sorry, I don't mean to do
that.

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Wow.
The show ends this coming Monday

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not as a burnout casualty, but
as a conscious, creative

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decision to finish on his own
terms one more time.

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OK, It's Legacy is not just for
conversations.

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It's the invitation to tell the
truth.

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Go deep and let the mic hear
your heartbeat.

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That was tough.
Wow, sorry, I didn't mean to get

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now.
Dr. Are you a big fan?

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Let's play with this for a
second.

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Why so emotional?
I'm not saying it to tease, I'm

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genuinely curious how why you
think it made you emotional?

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He's so iconic and when I think
of him, you know, he's done a

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lot of acting gigs in the past
several years.

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So I am a fan of whenever I see
him, his name on something, you

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know, on Netflix or any other
platform, I will watch.

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But I don't, I have to.
I have to see who's on in order

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for me to really catch his
podcast.

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It's not something I normally
would tune into, but when I have

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tuned into it, he does have the
ability to get people talking

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and saying stuff that they
wouldn't normally say on a show,

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quote UN quote show because of
this whole intimate thing that

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he set up.
Yeah, as far as we're concerned

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in this industry, he is a
legend.

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And so I do understand the
emotion behind it and what he's

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done with not just the industry,
but specifically with his

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podcast.
Like you're pointing out, there

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is something really special
about it for a lot of people.

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And it really he found a way to
really make these interviews

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that he did very personal.
I get the emotion.

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And This is why I think it's
important to acknowledge him

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stepping down, walking away.
A lot of us can learn a thing or

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two about interviewing if we
listen to him.

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And it doesn't matter, in my
opinion, whether he's talking to

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big names and celebrities or,
you know, Joe Schmo down the

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street.
He finds a way to bring out the

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best interviews in people.
And I think if we study that, I

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think we can learn a few things
about how to do it better.

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Right.
And the copy did say that, you

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know, it's it's not a commentary
on burnout, but he did come out

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and say he was just burnout.
He's lost his spark for it, You

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know.
I mean, how many years has he

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been doing it?
16, Yeah.

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Yeah, I hear that.
And now I do have a couple of

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questions on burnout here.
Do you see them?

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Which one do you think you would
like to ask the room?

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We'll do one or two of these
questions, and then we'll get to

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today's clip.
The first question here I think

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makes sense to start with.
OK, What part of the podcasting

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process drains you the most?
And are you still pretending it

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doesn't?
That is, I think the part that

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you're for me, I'll start and I
want everybody to think about it

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again, that question.
And if you're here live in the

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audience, please share in the
chat.

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What's the part of the of
podcasting that drains you the

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most?
And I like the second part of

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the question, Dr. And are you
still pretending it doesn't?

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I might be a little more rare
than a lot of you listening

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because not everybody does a
daily podcast, but for me, it's

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the prep.
The prep drains me and it's hard

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to do for me because I am also
running a business at the same

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time.
So carving out the time during

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the day is challenging for me
because I, I've got clients to

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work with new clients to bring
on bored or and try to find new

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clients.
I mean, there's all sorts of

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stuff going on And sometimes I
put the prep until the hour or

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so before, as Dr. knows very
well, it's draining.

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It does make it more challenging
for me.

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That would be my answer.
And am I still pretending it

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doesn't?
Absolutely.

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I because there I definitely go
through a few times a week that

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oh man, what am I going to do?
And then I get a little stressed

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about it leading up to the 7:00
AM hour.

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So yeah, I mean, I try to
pretend it's not a thing, but

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it's absolutely a thing for me
and one that I would like to try

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to improve upon in 2026.
For me, it would be the notes.

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Now I use AI on my notes.
I do, but like any good AI, What

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do you call us AI users, people,
users, There's got to be a

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special name for us.
Like any good AI user, you need

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to come through a copy of what
it gives you.

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So my philosophy of what I do
with AII always do this.

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I always ask for more than what
I will be using.

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So it gives me a, a good choice
of things to use and I always, I

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always have to find stuff to
throw out.

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So for me, that's especially
because I'm, I have to stop

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editing.
I love editing and I have to

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stop editing in order to do the
notes.

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And that probably is starting.
I'm becoming a little perturbed

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about it.
I get that.

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I'm becoming a little resentful.
That's the word.

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Let's check in with Nick.
Nick, do you want to answer this

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one?
What part of the podcasting

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process drains you the most?
And are you still pretending it

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doesn't?
I was thinking about this a

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little bit differently than you
guys were.

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OK.
I would say the most draining

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part for me of podcasting was
always doing the interviews.

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And I don't mean that in a bad
way.

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I've gone like as I was
scheduling and trying to come up

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with a good interview schedule
for the 95 podcast, there were

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some days that I would do
back-to-back, sometimes 3

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episode interviews, back-to-back
to back and just staying on for

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that long and trying to keep
that high energy.

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I would get done with those
interviews and I would just be

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absolutely drained.
Like I would just be done for

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the rest of the day.
But.

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I still enjoyed it.
That mean a draining part of the

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process once or something like
dripping that part.

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It was just bringing the energy
out of Hewa.

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The lines of pieces of podcast
and for me would have been on

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the marketing side of balancing
how much effort to put in

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episodes that are already behind
you that that marketing effort

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going and getting traction on
the older episodes while also

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trying to make forward progress
on the episodes that you're have

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yet to release or are releasing
currently.

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That to me was always a a
struggle and something like

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that.
I hear that and that first part

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there about getting drained
after doing interviews.

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I totally relate to that.
I mean, really, I know my limit

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and it's one a day and, and
really I don't know that I've

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ever done more than say two or
three in a week, right?

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But after one in one day, I am
pretty drained.

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Maybe drained is actually not
the right word for me.

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I think that I think that it
really gets my adrenaline going

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after I'm done, especially if it
was a really good interview.

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I'm really upbeat and I don't
know if it's the ADHD or just

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human nature, but once that
adrenaline's running, I find

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it's hard for me sometimes to
just go back and focus on my

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regular day-to-day stuff.
I'm too much on a high to get

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myself to refocus sometimes.
So it takes me a while and then

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I think I get drained after
that.

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Then I just, once I let that
adrenaline do its thing and run

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its course, I tend to hit the
wall at that point and feel a

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little bit drained.
So it's hard for me personally

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to do more than one in a day.
So I, but you know, you

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interviewed me and I know that
you did some really extensive

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research when you interviewed
me.

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So I think your extensive
research that you do on the

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people that you interview, it's
like it's stirring the pot, you

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know, then the interview is like
eating the meal and it's like,

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Oh my God, I'm so.
Yeah, yeah.

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I think especially now with AII,
actually don't feel drained

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doing the prep.
I find it fun.

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Maybe that's just because AI is
still relatively new to me in my

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world of even though it's been a
few years now.

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But yeah, I think I enjoy the
prep process and I do usually.

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Unlike what I shared earlier
about prepping for the

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day-to-day show when it's an
interview, I do prep more in

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advance for it.
And so those two things coupled

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together, it doesn't feel
draining to me as much as

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actually once I'm done with the
interview, then I'm just then

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it's just, I think maybe it's
all it all comes at me at once.

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It all kind of settles and I'm
like, OK, now I need to take a

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deep breath and relax.
Anyone else want to share or

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shall we move forward?
Go ahead, Sid.

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Good morning.
Good morning everybody.

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So we had a similar conversation
earlier in the week about this

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and my answer then was editing,
which will always be my thing

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that I hate the most about doing
podcasting, but I don't edit

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anymore.
So that's good thing for me and

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my show and my listeners.
But I will say the thing that's

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really the most frustrating is
the marketing of the show and

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getting the show out there,
getting it discovered, talking

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about it, posting in all the
right places, doing all the

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right things or things.
But just the marketing of it can

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be really frustrating to grow
your reach.

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And there's so many different
places, I mean different things,

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different options, clips, no
clips.

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And so it can get, it can get a
little bit heavy at times in

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trying to put all the stuff out
there.

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Yeah, I think I saw Ashley
agreed.

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I agree as well.
I think that part, yeah.

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And I think that's because,
well, for me, it's because I do

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00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,760
all the other things for the
podcast and by the time I get to

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the marketing and promotions
stuff, I'm drained.

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It's like, oh man, I just feel
like I got over the hump and now

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I've got another mountain to
climb.

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So I relate to that so much.
Sid, thank you for sharing that.

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OK, here's what we're going to
do real quick.

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I do.
Before I play today's clip of

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00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,880
the day, I'd want to let you
know about Matt Bliss.

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You know Matt Bliss, our one of
our fine Co hosts from, well,

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00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,800
originally he's from Australia,
now living in Ireland.

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I believe he put out an episode
this week of Rethinking

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00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,640
Podcasting.
That's his podcast on the

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00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,000
harmful obsession of podcasting
as a discipline, which kind of

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goes along with a lot of what we
were talking about.

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00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,080
So I just wanted to encourage
you to go check it out.

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I'll give you a description and
there's maybe a little bias as

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00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,680
to why I'd like you to check it
out the description says.

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00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,240
In this episode, Matt gives a
few reflections on how too much

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00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,600
podcasting specific research can
become a problem when building

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00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,360
your show.
It doesn't help when podcast

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00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,040
optimization means your own
unique perspective and content

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00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,640
takes a back seat to the growth
hacks.

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00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,840
He talks about Inception Point A
is cheap content system that's a

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00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:14,240
company that creates podcasts,
all with AI, including hosts.

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00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,680
I believe why it took him so
long to make Rethinking

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00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,480
Podcasting and mentions the
Podcasting Morning Chat where

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00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,560
our community and our unique
perspectives help us steer clear

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of a lot of the typical hacks
and tactics.

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00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,080
And I think what he means really
there is that's what he

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00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,280
appreciates about the podcasting
Morning Chat, is that we all

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00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:40,520
share our different opinions and
we don't necessarily share one

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00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,880
way as the gospel.
We want to give that podcaster

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00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,560
listening the opportunity to
hear what others are doing and

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00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,760
find what resonates most with
them and take action on that

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00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,280
first.
So I think that's what Matt's

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00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:58,520
talking about.
So go to

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rethinkingpodcasting.com.
It's episode 14 and as I said,

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00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,839
it's called the episode's called
on the harmful obsession of

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00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:10,599
podcasting as a discipline.
Check that out.

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Let's give him some analytics,
shall we?

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00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,680
Let's go and press play.
Listen to that show and help

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00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:23,880
Rethinking Podcasting with the
their analytics, help them grow.

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00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,560
Thank you, Matt Bliss, for the
mention and talking about what

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00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:30,680
we do here at the Podcasting
Morning Chat.

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00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,440
All right, we're going to play
our first clip of the morning.

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00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,640
And this comes from Dare to Care
podcast.

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00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:44,720
It's about a year or so old and
we found it on TikTok at Dare to

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00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,920
self-care Pod.
That is the TikTok handle and I

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00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,880
believe OK, yeah.
And yeah, this that I was just

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00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,160
going to tell you about another
clip.

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00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,840
This is a different clip.
So we'll play this clip.

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00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,160
She's talking about guesting and
ghosting.

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00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,440
Why?
You may reach out to guests,

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00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,760
start the conversation, then all
of a sudden you don't hear from

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00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,200
them.
Or maybe they just say, sorry

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00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,080
thanks but no thanks.
I've decided I don't want to be

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00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,640
on your show.
So let's hear her opinion and

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00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,920
then I want to hear how you feel
about it.

285
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,680
And I have some additional
questions after that.

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00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,000
I've had some major guests come
on my podcast and I'm going to

287
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,560
let you in on the secret.
If you're struggling to get a

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00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,640
response from where you're
getting ghosted by potential

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00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,320
podcast guests, you're probably
asking too much of them.

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00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,440
I cannot tell you how many times
I've had people ask me to come

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00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,000
in their podcast and I say yes,
and I'm intrigued and then

292
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,640
they're like, great, let's get
on a 30 minute call schedule

293
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,560
that here and we'll talk about
what we're going to talk about

294
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,560
on the podcast and then schedule
the podcast episode and we'll do

295
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,640
that for about an hour.
And no, immediately, no ghost in

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00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,160
sorry, it's not intentional.
I just like I, I literally can't

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00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,760
keep up with the scheduling.
When you're a small podcast,

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00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,400
they're doing you a favor.
OK, so here's the trick.

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00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,040
You're going to want to put
everything in that initial DM or

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00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:58,960
e-mail so that when they first
see it and they're first

301
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,120
intrigued and they're first
interested and you have their

302
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:03,840
attention, they can schedule the
recording right there on the

303
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,400
spot and they're done.
Goes directly on their calendar.

304
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,960
But a Bing but a boom.
Within 5 seconds, they saw the

305
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,040
e-mail, they scheduled it, and
it's on their calendar.

306
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,440
OK so there you go.
That is from Dare to self-care

307
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:22,760
pod on TikTok and I see Janae
wants to come up and join us as

308
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,920
well for a response.
So let's just start with the

309
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,920
broad question to begin, and
then I'll get more specific with

310
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,720
some questions for all of you.
And again, if you're listening

311
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,000
in the audience and by the way,
we got a full house in the

312
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,400
audience today.
Welcome, everyone.

313
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,680
Thank you for being here today.
If you want to join the

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00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,040
conversation, by all means, hit
the raise your hand button here

315
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,400
on Clubhouse and come up and
join the conversation.

316
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,400
And if you're feeling a little
shy, which as a podcaster, why

317
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,120
are you feeling shy to come up
and talk?

318
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,840
But if you are, go ahead and put
it in the chat as well.

319
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,480
And I do recognize there are
other reasons why you may not be

320
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,200
able to join us up here this
morning.

321
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,760
So I will go to Janae first
since he's joined us.

322
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:10,000
Janae, do you agree that small
podcasts often ask too much from

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00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,400
guests or potential guests
during the booking process?

324
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,600
And have you ever been guilty of
that?

325
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,480
Let's hear from you.
I love this topic because this

326
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,360
is something that I've done in
the past and you know, continue.

327
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:27,560
I don't know if I'm continuing
to do it anymore even though I

328
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,560
have all of the information
providing to the guest that I'm

329
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,360
inviting.
Hey, this is what I'm about.

330
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:39,000
So I used to do the previous
interview calls and then book

331
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:45,160
the episode to record and
sometimes they were booked two

332
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:50,600
months later.
So you'd really sit down with a

333
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,600
guest to book them and you tell
them, OK, we're going to do

334
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,040
this, but it's not until
December.

335
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,800
Exactly.
OK, exactly.

336
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:02,040
And it's kind of crazy because
as the time approaches, guess

337
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,720
what life happened, How do I
have to cancel?

338
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,560
Either the guest has to cancel,
then you have to reschedule.

339
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,640
I'm like, this is very, this is
a lot of toll because there's a

340
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,520
lot of people waiting.
And so I've got a new idea that

341
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,000
I'll share later.
I love this, you know, being

342
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,320
better on what she says.
You know, you book a time, but

343
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,960
even if your calendar is full,
just what's happening, you're

344
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:31,600
still booking two weeks ahead,
which is probably not as bad as

345
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,160
two months.
It's a big deal.

346
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,480
And we all know a solution that
helps a lot of these things

347
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,760
together, like pod match and
aligning with the guests that

348
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,960
you're looking for and aligning
with the host that you're

349
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,520
looking to be a guest of.
Thank you, Janae.

350
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:55,960
So do you agree with the idea of
not because I I didn't quite

351
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,360
catch this from you.
Do you agree that maybe it's

352
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:03,560
best to skip the pre call the
pre interview because that's

353
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,880
what she was talking about, she
doesn't like the idea?

354
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,040
OK, go ahead.
Yes, I agree that to skip the

355
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,560
pre interview called because
again, if you're inviting

356
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,280
somebody to your podcast, you
got to be very specific on what

357
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:24,040
you want from them so that they
know exactly they're in their

358
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,240
zone of genius as opposed to
hey, come be a guest on my show.

359
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:29,160
What's your podcast about?
It's about this.

360
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,360
What can I talk about?
You know, so having that DM

361
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:36,280
filled in with, Hey, here's what
I want from you based on your

362
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,600
expertise and they're more
comfortable as supposed to who's

363
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,280
this random person looking or
looking to take my time and and

364
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,720
record a podcast with me.
OK.

365
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,560
Thank you, Janae.
I appreciate that.

366
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,440
And I know that we've talked
about this even maybe somewhat

367
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,720
recently, just that idea of do
we or don't we do the pre

368
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,360
interview and I know I've shared
and I'll just say it quickly,

369
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:02,920
I'm not going to go into a whole
spiel about it, but I personally

370
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,280
prefer to do it.
I like I like building rapport

371
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,640
with my guests and I like
getting to know them a little

372
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,040
bit, getting to know getting to
on the same page as them and

373
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,920
vice versa before we ever hit
record.

374
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:23,480
But I do hear what this person
in this clip was sharing that it

375
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,760
may be annoying to people that
they don't want to keep having

376
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,520
to sit down with you and they
just want to if they want a one

377
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,360
and done.
I get that that's the case.

378
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,680
She does kind of imply or
actually she might even directly

379
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,280
say this is specific to smaller
podcasts.

380
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,800
And she did even say something
about guests are doing you a

381
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,160
favor by coming on your show.
So you have to be courteous of

382
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,200
that.
And that I don't know if it

383
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:59,360
really applies to small
podcasts, big podcasts, or any

384
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:02,880
podcast who's off mic somebody's
morning.

385
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,560
Everybody.
I've been on podcasts where I

386
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,960
had the pre interview and I've
been on podcasts where I didn't.

387
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,040
It just depends on what's in the
pre interview.

388
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:16,160
I think that's the key if, if
it's a quick, you know, getting

389
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,160
all the semantics out, seeing if
there's any questions, that

390
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,120
might be pretty good.
I've also been on podcasts and I

391
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,800
know I've done this myself.
You know, can you meet like 10

392
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,760
minutes before or whatever,
minutes before, half hour

393
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,920
before, just to make sure
everything is checked, you know,

394
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,920
all your stuff is checked.
And then we kind of do a pre

395
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,040
interview.
Is there anything?

396
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,480
So I mean, there's a lot of
different ways you can do it

397
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,600
when you're booking out, like
Janae is so far in advance.

398
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,920
Like you said, life happens and
their message might be

399
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,920
different.
So that's always a good thing to

400
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,400
have as well.
It's what really works for you,

401
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,760
don't you think?
It's what you and your Co host

402
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,320
or slash interviewee.
It's like, what's the perfect

403
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:58,800
length of a podcast?
And we're not going to go down

404
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,120
there.
There is no perfect length.

405
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:01,600
I hate to break the news to you.
It's what you like.

406
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,840
And I think that's the same
thing with this kind of stuff,

407
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,920
unfortunately.
I was just going to say I I

408
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,440
always liked the pre interview
just because I framed it as a

409
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,320
way to basically see if it was a
good fit for the show.

410
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,480
Like I never came in and was
like, Hey, you're going to be on

411
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:20,960
the podcast.
This is what's happening.

412
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,080
Like let's have a conversation,
see if like your experience and

413
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,840
what you bring to the table is
going to be a good fit for the

414
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,080
show because I don't want to
waste your time.

415
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,120
You want to waste my time.
Like that's kind of how it is.

416
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,440
So it would always be a quick
10-15 minute get in, get out.

417
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,720
All right, let's do it.
But when I was hearing Janae

418
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,080
talk, I, I was thinking this
kind of takes that what I just

419
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,680
said out of it.
But you could also lock them in

420
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:51,040
for the interview and then a
week or two weeks prior to the

421
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,440
interview, get them on a quick
call to kind of like brief them

422
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,040
and kind of give them the
rundown on it.

423
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,040
That way you're not saying, hey,
let's book a quick call.

424
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,400
OK, now let's book the interview
and like just kind of

425
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,400
overwhelming them with
scheduling type stuff.

426
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,360
You, you lock them in for the
interview and then work out the

427
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:10,600
details from there.
And if you can't make it happen

428
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,080
for the pre interview, Oh well,
at least you got them booked for

429
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,360
the actual interview but you're
not overwhelming them.

430
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,640
Yeah.
I like that Nick.

431
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,360
I like that a lot because then
yeah, like you're saying, it's

432
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:23,120
not a lot of overwhelm.
They you've asked them.

433
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,040
I hope that most people at the
very least with whether they're

434
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,640
doing a pre call or not that
they are at least getting some

435
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,600
questions answered from that
guest so that they can get on

436
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,240
the same page.
But yeah, basically not telling

437
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,760
them in advance you'd like to do
a pre call, waiting a week or so

438
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,880
before and then saying, hey,
would you be open to getting on

439
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,520
a quick call so we can talk
about the interview beforehand.

440
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,080
I like that idea cuz if they're
free, they'll probably do it

441
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,960
because let's be real, a lot of
guests, not all guests, but a

442
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,440
lot of guests might be feeling a
little nervous about it.

443
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,320
This might help break that ice a
little bit for them.

444
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:02,160
I like that idea.
And that would also help

445
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,000
alleviate the issue where Janae
was talking like you get them on

446
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,840
a call and then they can't do
the interview for two months

447
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,120
afterwards.
Like you've had so many

448
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,520
conversations since then.
Do you even remember that quick

449
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,880
little pre interview that you
did with that person?

450
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,040
Like it?
It kind of brings everyone on

451
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,720
the same page.
Absolutely.

452
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,760
And Chris Baker's on stage.
Chris, good morning.

453
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,440
Welcome back.
What did you want to add?

454
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,400
I've never almost never done pre
interviews, although sometimes

455
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,520
maybe there's even a 5 minute
exchange before we start.

456
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,640
I will say though, I've you
know, at about 370 shows now, I

457
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,840
have actually just scrapped a
few because they were so bad.

458
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,120
One case, the guy just had such
a bad accent that I just said I

459
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:49,200
was repeatedly asking him what I
do think sometimes, you know, I

460
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,680
wish I would have a pre
conversation just to go over

461
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,840
things because every once in a
while, you know, I'll, I'll get

462
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,640
somebody awesome on the chat on
stream where I said, can you do

463
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,600
something about the dog or the
guy who was a documentary

464
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,960
filmmaker who didn't have enough
sense to turn off his phone when

465
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,160
we were talking.
Every once in a while I just

466
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,560
like to do a pre call just to go
over stuff like that.

467
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,400
That stuff that I thought was
obvious but isn't, you know, put

468
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,320
your dog someplace, turn off
your phone.

469
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,840
But usually there's enough back
and forth an e-mail where where

470
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,080
we end up talking about these
things and, and most cases too,

471
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,360
you know, it's always a question
of, you know, hey, what time

472
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:25,840
zone are you, what time zone am
I?

473
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,280
You know, that kind of thing.
As I pointed out, an empowered

474
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:34,560
podcasting and the most mind
boggling and the most head

475
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,920
scratching thing for me is I
will have these guests and I've

476
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,840
had them with 300,000 Twitter
followers and there is nothing

477
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,000
from them on Twitter.
I mean, I realize they've

478
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,200
already done me a favor by
coming on the show, but I'm just

479
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,560
like, can you at least do this
little 15 second favor of

480
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,160
sending out a?
Tweet.

481
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,960
But they don't.
Sometimes it's just laziness.

482
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,760
I send them a link to the tweet.
I mean, you can click on the

483
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,040
tweet and I don't know what to
do.

484
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,760
I I've thought about, you know,
like sending out like a little

485
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,240
workflow sheet, you know, just
like something yes, we, we do

486
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,680
this on stream yard.
We do, you know, this will be

487
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,640
audio and video because Suzanne
and Gracia have came on and she

488
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,720
didn't.
Oh, I didn't know we were doing

489
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,200
video.
Well, I would have, you know,

490
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,960
fixed all my makeup.
I was actually waiting to

491
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,120
suggest that I think giving a
checklist to all of our guests

492
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,240
ahead of time can only help us
and, and the things that you

493
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,160
listed, I would absolutely put
those on there, you know, make

494
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,480
sure your dogs, small children
and noise making people are out

495
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,920
out of the room, door closed,
etcetera.

496
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,960
And let me go to Yvonne and
thank you again, Chris.

497
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,520
Yvonne, please.
I, I think you wanted to respond

498
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,280
a little bit to that.
And I know you're up here

499
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,920
because you just wanted to share
as well.

500
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,520
So go for it.
Good morning to you.

501
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,040
Good morning.
First of all, I want to talk

502
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,800
about this idea that they're
doing us a favor.

503
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,760
I wrote that down.
I'm glad you want to bring that

504
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:57,280
up.
Go ahead.

505
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,640
Yeah, because it's come up a
couple of times.

506
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,960
And here's the thing, it's it's
an exchange.

507
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,120
It's an exchange of favors.
We are doing them a favor by

508
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,880
giving them a platform to come
on our podcast as well.

509
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,240
And I I do love doing a pre
interview, but I have to say it

510
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:22,320
depends if I'm trying to get
somebody who I already know that

511
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,800
they have media experience, that
they have been on other

512
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:33,320
podcasts, that they are good at
talking about what they do.

513
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,160
I don't need a pre interview if
I feel like I have a really good

514
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,640
handle on why I want them on the
show and what I want to talk

515
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,880
about with them.
Don't need the pre interview in

516
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,160
that case.
But if it's somebody who has, I

517
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,440
have found out something about
them, I don't know if they have

518
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,440
any experience even coming on
Zoom.

519
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,560
I don't know what their tech
experience is with being able to

520
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,840
get hooked up properly to make
sure they're in a good space.

521
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,840
All the things Chris was talking
about.

522
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,400
So in those cases, I think a pre
interview is essential.

523
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,200
I'm with you, Yvonne.
And great points too.

524
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,240
And yeah, let's talk about that
for a second.

525
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,360
The whole idea of doing a favor.
And you know, that wasn't just

526
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,520
Chris's language, like that was
in the clip itself that that

527
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,840
this woman was suggesting that
the guests are all doing us a

528
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,440
favor.
And I agree with you, Yvonne,

529
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,640
that it is an exchange.
And granted, some of these

530
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:37,040
guests might have much larger
followings than we do, but I but

531
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,520
that's they're still they don't
have to come on your podcast,

532
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:41,680
especially if they don't know
you.

533
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,880
Why are they quote UN quote,
doing us a favor?

534
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,800
There's clearly something behind
that, right?

535
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,360
They're joining us because maybe
they want to promote something.

536
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,560
They want to help spread the
message that they are trying to

537
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,400
share.
There's could be a plethora of

538
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,560
reasons.
And I think that we might be

539
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,160
hurting ourselves if we are
looking at the guests as doing

540
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:09,000
us a favor because I think then
we and some people will cower to

541
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,440
the guest.
And, and that doesn't feel like

542
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,040
a natural conversation to me.
I don't like giving the power to

543
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,000
the host.
I don't like giving the power to

544
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,800
the guest.
I like it to be a shared power.

545
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,640
That is the most constructive
conversation.

546
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,360
Yeah.
But it comes down to knowing how

547
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,800
to be a guest and doing the
simple things.

548
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,120
And I think a lot of times, just
like, oh, I'm going to start a

549
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,880
podcast.
It can't be that hard.

550
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:38,200
I just press record, which he is
and it isn't, you know, people

551
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,440
learning to everybody wants to
be a guest.

552
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,520
Nobody wants to host a lot of
times because it's just easier.

553
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,080
But because you show up, you do
your thing.

554
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,480
But there is some work.
And to your point, if you send

555
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:54,000
out that pre e-mail to say, you
know, for tech issues and, and

556
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,160
all the other stuff, if you lay
the groundwork early, I mean, I

557
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,160
know I, I don't know who it was
maybe Ashley or somebody else

558
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,160
years ago or months ago or
whatever talked about, you know,

559
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,800
they give out a, they give out a
media packet and they still

560
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,760
don't even, all they have to do
is click and they still don't

561
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,080
even forward it to their people.
And people don't read.

562
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,800
Well, that's all another issue.
To your point, Yvonne, Yeah,

563
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:17,960
they don't read, they don't want
to.

564
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,760
They just want to show up, do
their thing and leave.

565
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,920
Well, there is the devil's in
the details.

566
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,280
That's the sad part.
But training guests as part of

567
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,240
being a host?
Thank you, Alex.

568
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,080
I'm going to go to Sid and then
Lindsay, you're on deck.

569
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,120
Thank you for being patient and
waiting here on stage.

570
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,360
We will come to you in a moment.
Sid, what do you want to add to

571
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,960
all this?
Yeah, lots of thoughts about

572
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,320
this topic.
I do agree with what Yvonne said

573
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,200
that it's a two way St. we're
doing for them what they're

574
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,240
doing for us.
I do have a pre call with every

575
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,160
one of my guests and you know in
that pre call I try to schedule

576
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,560
the recording and all that.
But you know, the thing that I

577
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,240
don't want to just kind of
highlight is it's not their

578
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,400
show, it's your show.
And I think that we have to

579
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,639
release any preconceived ideas
that we have that our guest is

580
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:11,679
going to help make our show
successful.

581
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,239
It's our show and it's our
responsibility to market and do

582
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:16,480
it.
And I think we just have to let

583
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,280
go of, well, they didn't, they
didn't repurpose the content,

584
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:21,840
they didn't do this, they didn't
do that.

585
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,320
And I just think we have to let
that go because it's not their

586
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,000
show, It's our show, It's your
show.

587
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,960
And it's your responsibility to
do the marketing of it and not

588
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,560
rely on someone else to do it
for you.

589
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,560
So that's a little bit of a
contrarian position, I think,

590
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,040
Mark.
But again, it's your show and

591
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,840
you're responsible for it.
So that's my thoughts on it.

592
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,360
Yeah, I'm with you, Sid.
Thank you for sharing that

593
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,159
perspective.
I think that's, yeah, it's

594
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:49,679
important.
Let me bring up Renee as well.

595
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,280
Renee, we will come to you in a
moment.

596
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,239
Let's check in with Lindsaya.
Good morning, Lindsaya.

597
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,639
Thanks again for your patience.
What do you want to add to this

598
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:58,440
whole conversation about that
clip?

599
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,600
Yeah, good morning.
And I love the conversation has

600
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:08,200
LED towards energy exchange too.
And I do believe that each

601
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,040
position I love said that you
said like the sovereignty and

602
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,440
ownership of the of the
podcaster.

603
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,680
For me, I think it's important
to have many different pathways,

604
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,520
so many different funnels,
systems, automations set in

605
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:29,800
based on how the guest is coming
in because it is different.

606
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,560
Like if you apply to be on the
show, that's a much different

607
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,000
scenario than if I am seeking
you out and requesting for you

608
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,880
to join everything from if
you're asking to be on the

609
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,640
podcast and essential to get
covered.

610
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,960
There's also a marketing
agreement that must happen.

611
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,080
You're agreeing to do certain
things.

612
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,800
One of them is something that I
don't really need you to depend

613
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,880
on you reposting.
It's all about the world of

614
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,480
collaboration.
So I'm going to make you a

615
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,840
collaborator on post.
That's different than if I seek

616
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,200
you out because someone who has
a much bigger following, whether

617
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,240
we like it or not, they do have
a, they have, they are giving

618
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:17,480
more in the way of exposure.
So when we think about energetic

619
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,480
exchange, it's the same as if
you pay for advertising.

620
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,280
The bigger the audience, the
bigger the spend.

621
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,560
And so if you have a smaller
audience for your podcast and

622
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,040
your marketing isn't going to
bring a big audience or exposure

623
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,600
to them, then they're giving
more generously, which means if

624
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,600
there has to be some energy,
some way in which they're

625
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,040
getting something.
Otherwise for me, like, you know

626
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,960
why?
I'll use myself as an example.

627
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,280
And I'm far from a big
influencer.

628
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,840
However, if you invite me onto
your podcast and I want to share

629
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,320
my message, that doesn't
necessarily mean that your

630
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,200
podcast is something that I
would seek out or that your

631
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,840
audience is my ideal target
market.

632
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,600
I may want to practice, I may
want to spread my message and

633
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,840
hope to reach more people.
And so there is a reminder that

634
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,680
like it for me, it's really how
we the the origination of how

635
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,720
that person is coming onto the
platform.

636
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,440
But then that discerns how
they're going to be treated,

637
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,240
what it is that they're going to
be, you know, what they're going

638
00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:26,440
to be asked to do or what's
going to be quote on quote

639
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,200
expected.
And then for me, I think it's

640
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:35,000
all about the position and the
vision of each podcast.

641
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,400
If you're the kind of podcast
that you're long for maybe or

642
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,720
you'd like to have more, you
know, front loaded information,

643
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,440
a pre interview can be amazing.
If you're someone that is doing

644
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,400
something more short form or
more off the cuff, you want it

645
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,720
to flow more in that way, I
think the pre interview can

646
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,680
impact that energy.
So I think it's never one or the

647
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,280
other.
And I love that that was said

648
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,000
more times than once today that
it really is about what is it

649
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,480
you're trying to bring to life?
And then I do think, you know,

650
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,960
again, having those automated
pathways and understanding the

651
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,480
difference between someone
asking to come on the podcast

652
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,400
versus you ask.
Lindsay, bring in it.

653
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,880
Thank you.
Lindsay, I'm I'm with you.

654
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:26,920
And the one point that sticks
out of, of many is that that

655
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,840
idea of really having a, an
honest conversation with the

656
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,160
guest about how you would you
would like them to promote the

657
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,320
episode.
You want to ask them, in my

658
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,960
opinion, if they're willing and
comfortable to repost or share

659
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,000
the content from the episode
that you're producing and

660
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,840
putting out there.
Talk to them about your

661
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:53,160
expectations and ask them if
they're on board and I find that

662
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,640
a pre interview call or if it's
before the the actual interview

663
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,280
minutes before.
But to carve out a little bit of

664
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,320
time to actually look them in
the eye.

665
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,680
If you're doing this, say on
Riverside or in person.

666
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,680
But to be able to look them in
the eye and tell them what your

667
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:13,320
expectations are, tell them the
intentions and ask them are you

668
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,240
cool with this?
Are you comfortable?

669
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:20,440
Will you do this?
And please share why you may not

670
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,240
want to do this?
I want to hear, I want to

671
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:26,680
understand because if you have
resistance, my other guests may

672
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,560
have resistance and I want to
learn why this isn't working for

673
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,120
you, why you don't want to do
this.

674
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,680
I think having those
conversations and doing them as

675
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,000
opposed to just putting it in an
e-mail, asking them to check a

676
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,360
box or sign off that they're
going to do this thing, it's so

677
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,880
less personal.
Area 1 donor and So what also

678
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,160
comes up for me is that when
you're asking someone to do

679
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,840
advertising on your behalf, to
me it is more than a

680
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,960
conversation.
If they have a larger audience

681
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:04,240
than you like, it cost someone
money if they want me to cross

682
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:06,760
promote anything.
Period.

683
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,640
If I'm not involved in it, it
costs money.

684
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,200
If you want me to put it in my
newsletter.

685
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,120
If you want me to put it on my
social medias.

686
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,800
If you want me to send it out to
my text list.

687
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,560
If you want me to put it into my
Facebook group.

688
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:17,960
If you want me to add it to my
app.

689
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,560
Like each interface in which I
am going to promote something

690
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:26,040
that isn't directly derived from
my creation, there is a fee

691
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:31,440
unless I unless I have sought it
out and I'm Co collaborating

692
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,880
with somebody.
So someone asking me to be on

693
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,880
their podcast doesn't mean that
you and you get access because

694
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,400
my face is on your podcast to me
promoting it like it's something

695
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,160
that I have in my marketing
scheme that's going to fit my

696
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,440
messaging, that's going to fit
what I'm promoting.

697
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,760
Even if the message is aligned
with what I share, it may not be

698
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,840
in alignment with all of that
unless I've considered it and

699
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,800
there's an it's advantageous.
And so I think we must consider

700
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,920
that it's more than like
requesting that really is again,

701
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:02,440
like what's in it for them.
If it isn't money, it must be

702
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,440
something that's my my belief.
And so like that.

703
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,920
What could that be?
And I just wanted to add that in

704
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:09,920
as an example.
Thank you.

705
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,000
And yeah, again, bringing it to
this morning.

706
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,960
Thank you, Lindsay.
And yeah, their reasoning may be

707
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,640
that your content that you want
to put out there isn't on brand

708
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,960
with them.
And you might stop now and say,

709
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,440
but Mark, it's them talking, so
it's got to be on brand for

710
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,120
them.
They're sharing their message,

711
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,120
but there could be lots of other
branding issues.

712
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,520
It may not look and feel like
the content that they're working

713
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,280
so hard to create, create of
their own.

714
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:41,880
It just may not fit well with
what they're doing.

715
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,880
And even adding you as a
collaborator, they may not want

716
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,080
to hit the accept button because
it just doesn't jive with their

717
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,160
content.
There are legitimate reasons

718
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,600
that we have to think about.
And especially, like I said, if

719
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,120
they're bigger creators that
have taken the time to build up

720
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,920
this brand, they don't want to
messy the waters, muddy the

721
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,600
waters.
I'm with you there.

722
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,320
Let's check in with Renee.
Renee, thanks for your patience.

723
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,920
What do you want to add to all
this?

724
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,200
Yeah, I come to this from a
marketing standpoint, having

725
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,680
placed myself on podcast or
placing my coworkers or placing

726
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:24,160
my clients on podcast.
So what what I see happening is,

727
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,320
you know, I'm judging this whole
thing from the very first e-mail

728
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,640
and what's going on.
You guys talked about that

729
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,320
earlier like what how are you
presenting yourself to me and

730
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,120
are you giving me a little bit
of bullet points on what's going

731
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,840
to happen in this Like first
we're going to do this, then

732
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,480
we're going to do this, then
we're going to do this.

733
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,800
OK, that's wonderful do we get
past that?

734
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,080
But then where I get super
impressed and nobody's done it.

735
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,920
So I'm going to tell you what is
missing because I backtrack and

736
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,200
do this myself.
I go back when we've I've been

737
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,720
on YouTube because I can't, I
know how to optimize YouTube.

738
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:00,880
I know that platform.
I don't know how to optimize for

739
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,080
podcasts, but assuming it's the
same but for YouTube, I will go

740
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,800
back and I will go tell them to
put all of these things.

741
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,880
I want you to optimize our our
everything from the title.

742
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,200
I'll give them the whole new
title.

743
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,440
I'll give them the keywords,
I'll give them all the

744
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,760
descriptions and everything.
And we've gotten ourselves from

745
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:24,720
from nothingness to like #5 on a
really good podcast because we

746
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:27,800
went in there and then I went
back and did it again and I

747
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,560
edited it again and they didn't
care.

748
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,160
He just sent it to his team guy
and re edit it.

749
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:33,920
That's our best success story
with that.

750
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:39,440
But what what I want is, I would
love it if you said, what

751
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,840
keywords do you want us to
optimize for?

752
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,560
OK, now I know you're thinking
because you're thinking for me,

753
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,240
you're thinking what's going to
help me get in front of my

754
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:50,200
audience.
So if you ask me that and make

755
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,640
that optional, optional if you
want us to really drill down

756
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,760
into your niche, what keywords,
what descriptors would you like?

757
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,840
But the other thing, if you want
to impress me, tell me that

758
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,680
you're going to be sending me
social squares.

759
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,640
We could, we would call them a
square, but they're not a square

760
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:06,960
anymore.
You know, we're going to have to

761
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,440
do a 3 by 4 for Instagram or a
four by 5, but you're going to

762
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,480
send me the social art and give
me 5 versions because how hard

763
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,920
is that?
And look at my brand, Have your

764
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,720
artist look at both brands.
Give them something that's going

765
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:24,360
to look good on their grid or on
their walls and make them the

766
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,600
social square.
Nobody's going to if you do all

767
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,080
the work for them and give them,
give them the content bytes,

768
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,880
give them 3 or 4 choices for
what the content should be

769
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,520
underneath.
Now you are sending that say we

770
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,800
will send you all of the that
you can send it to him

771
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,360
beforehand.
Hey, I'm going to be on this

772
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,600
podcast.
Probably they're probably not

773
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,800
going to post that one, but then
after it is, here's everything.

774
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,000
Pack it up, send it to him or
give him a little Google Drive

775
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:49,080
link.
Here's everything.

776
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:50,800
Pick from it.
They're going to think you're

777
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,120
the best thing and you're going
to be the best experience

778
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,400
podcast because you did the leg
work for them.

779
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,960
And that is only if you want
them to market and do the push

780
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,960
for you.
If you don't want them to market

781
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,280
for you, don't do that.
But if you're expecting that and

782
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,280
that still doesn't guarantee
they're going to do it, but if

783
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,880
you've done 80% of it for them
and they like it, they might

784
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,520
even come back with a tweak.
Hey, can you fix this something,

785
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,600
something, I don't know, they
want to fix something the colors

786
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,440
off a little bit here or here's
our hex colors.

787
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,160
Can you please make it totally a
brand?

788
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,640
Do it.
I mean, this is all worth it.

789
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,040
The amount of time you put into
that to get a push in into their

790
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,360
audience, worth every penny as
far as I'm concerned.

791
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,880
But those are the things that
you can do to to interest me as

792
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,280
a marketer when I see you coming
because I'm going to judge you

793
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,160
from that first e-mail.
I'm sorry, I'm judging.

794
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:44,480
I'm judging.
Renee, you know what, you

795
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:47,680
mentioned a lot of the stuff
that I do, but you also said

796
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,880
some of the stuff that I might
be stealing from you.

797
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:55,960
So right now we do for each
episode that goes out for my

798
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:02,480
clients, we do three shorts and
we do three, what I call Q&A's.

799
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:07,840
And that would be a horizontal
and it's the host asking a

800
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,320
question and the guest answering
the question.

801
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,840
It could be two minutes, it
could be 8 minutes, it could be

802
00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:17,720
however long it takes them to
answer that question.

803
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,400
So we do three of those.
We do three shorts in the e-mail

804
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,920
I also send them, they can do a
copy paste because I send them

805
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,360
like a a little blurb that they
can put in that they could just

806
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,400
do a copy paste or they can use
that as a template.

807
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:37,600
But I think I'm going to start
sending them some keywords as

808
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,240
well.
I think that's a great idea.

809
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,800
Yeah, I like that too.
I love the collaborative

810
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,720
suggestions, right.
It was to really sit down and

811
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:50,080
talk with that guest and using
and showing them that you know

812
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,200
what you're talking about and
that you know what may be of

813
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,920
interest to them when you're
having this conversation about

814
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,600
collaborative sharing of your
content.

815
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:01,480
I love that.
Thank you.

816
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,920
Let's see, Sid, I know earlier
you had your hand up.

817
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,280
Did you want to add anything
else?

818
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:09,840
Yeah, I will.
Thank you, Mark.

819
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,360
So one of the things I love
about podcasting is you get to

820
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,200
do it your way.
There are really no rules.

821
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,040
They're not really any
guidelines.

822
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,400
You get to do it your way,
whatever type of show you want,

823
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,880
however you want to do.
And everybody's brought up

824
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,080
really valid points.
Lindsay and Renee is this

825
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,000
amazing things that I think are
great tips and potentially great

826
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,120
takeaways.
But for me, what I think about

827
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:40,800
is the experience that my guest
is going to have with me.

828
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,080
And it's not just being on my
show.

829
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,560
It's with me in general from the
first time that I reach out to

830
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,400
them till the thank you
afterwards.

831
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,600
And I think about what's the
experience that I'm curating for

832
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,720
them so that they want to.
I want them to be in a place

833
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:58,400
that they've had such a great
experience with me that they

834
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,560
want to do things that they want
to share it, not that they have

835
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,680
to or made them sign.
This is me that they have made

836
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,040
all these assets for them or
made them sign a contract or

837
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,000
whatever it is.
None of those are bad, but I

838
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,480
want them to have such an
experience with me that they

839
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,040
want to share my show, that they
want to share that they were on

840
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:17,880
my show, that they're proud of
that fact.

841
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,360
And so that's where I come from
and thinking of starting with

842
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,120
gratitude that they're on my
show and how can I curate an

843
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,960
experience for them that they
want to help me grow my show

844
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:30,000
because that's what they're
doing.

845
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:31,760
It's helping you grow their
show.

846
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:36,040
So again, nobody's wrong.
Great tips today, but I just

847
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,640
look at it a little bit
differently and trying to curate

848
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,920
an experience for my guests that
they want to, they want to

849
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,400
participate and they want to
share.

850
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,840
I agree, Sid.
I think it does all start with

851
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,200
curating that awesome experience
for the guest.

852
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,000
And I think if you're good at
what you do, if you're a good

853
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,840
interviewer, if you're a good
listener, if you are bringing

854
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:03,760
out the best in that guest, if
you then that they're going to

855
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,880
be more likely more interested
in sharing that experience with

856
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,400
their audience.
I think that they're.

857
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:11,840
Before you go on, yeah, I'm
sorry.

858
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,200
Before you go on, so I heard a
guest speak on this guy speak on

859
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,360
Katie Brinkley's podcast about
artificial intelligence, and I

860
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,920
was just blown away.
And he says in the episode, hey,

861
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,480
if you'll send me an e-mail with
this in the subject line, I

862
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,600
promise I'll respond to you.
So I did it and I said, hey, I

863
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,160
really enjoyed what you said.
I'd like to talk to you about

864
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,120
being a guest of my show.
Here's the link to schedule.

865
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,520
Or I didn't even put the link.
And I did put the link and I

866
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,760
know I don't even remember now.
Anyways, I reached out to him

867
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,360
about two weeks later.
He responded.

868
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,720
And so we got something
scheduled and we had a fabulous

869
00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:54,440
call about what he's doing and
AI and all these crazy things.

870
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,840
And then he talked about
scheduling.

871
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:00,680
And I said, well, you're going
to be the one of the first or

872
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,480
second episodes of my new
season, which is not going to

873
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,600
launch until late January.
So let's just delay the

874
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,360
recording until December and
I'll reach out to you in early

875
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,000
December to get you on the
books.

876
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,280
And he goes, that's great.
And when you were done, can you

877
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,600
send me the video file?
I'll send it to my team and they

878
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,680
can do with it.
I said, absolutely happy to do

879
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,320
that for you.
I'll share a Google folder with

880
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,480
you and, and listen to him.
I heard what he said, I followed

881
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,360
his action steps to get a
response.

882
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,240
I got a response, he had a great
call, and now a stranger is

883
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:31,560
going to be a guest of my show.
And I just keep thinking about

884
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,080
how do I make the experience
with him that his experience

885
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,920
with me is the best podcast
experience he's ever had?

886
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,320
I love that.
And yeah, I was thinking about

887
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,200
that earlier and I forgot about
it, so I'm glad you brought it

888
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,720
up.
Just that idea of I'm OK with

889
00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:49,920
it.
If my guest wants to take the

890
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:54,360
whole long form recording or
maybe my edited version of the

891
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:59,840
recording and break it all down
into clips of their own and use

892
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:01,880
them as they wish, I'm OK with
that.

893
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,120
If it means that they're going
to share the content.

894
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,920
And as long as they're tagging
or adding me as a collaborator

895
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,720
to the content that they're
sharing, I'm, I'm, I'm pleased

896
00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:14,840
as punch as they say.
I'm very happy to do that.

897
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,160
So that's a, it's a great
strategy and a great story too.

898
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,000
Thank you, Sid, for sharing that
with us.

899
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,480
I think we're at a spot.
This is a good time to wrap up.

900
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,040
I would love to remind you to
come back and join us tomorrow

901
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,800
at 7:00 AM Eastern.
We'll be talking more things

902
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,280
podcasting and of course we're
going to be sharing our wins

903
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,520
from this past week.
And if you want to learn

904
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,200
anything more about the
Podcasting Morning chat in this

905
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,960
awesome community and why we
have such great chats as we do,

906
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,760
go visit our website
podpage.com/PMC to learn more

907
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,520
about us.
Until Friday.

908
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,520
Make it a great day everybody,
take care.