Ep 231 | Building and Leading Strong Sales Teams with Kevin Hoverman

Ep 231 | Building and Leading Strong Sales Teams-Kevin Hoverman

 ​[00:00:00] 

Kevin Hoverman: When you work as a collective, it's incredibly powerful and I think our, the way you and I think about leadership is not handing people a fish. It's handing them a fishing pole and showing them 85 different ways they can use it and encouraging them along the way.

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-3: are you looking to improve your sales without resorting to pushy tactics? 

Welcome to sales made easy. The podcast that helps you to achieve better sales results and gain long lasting clients through relational selling. 

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-4: Let's get right into it. 

Harry: Wow, this is incredible special treat today. Kevin Hoverman, a longtime friend business, uh, associate over the years from. 20 ish. Oh, I wanna say 20, but it's really 25 years ago. It's almost 

Kevin Hoverman: 25 years. 

Harry: And I first met you, Kevin. So three. This is, uh, quite the honors to have you on the Sales Made Easy [00:01:00] podcast.

You and I are just chatting about the normal everyday occurrences and the copier space. So Kevin, welcome to the Sales Made Easy podcast. What's the good word, sir? 

Kevin Hoverman: Thank you for having me, Harry. Appreciate it. It's a beautiful day today. Uh, felt like fall for the first time here in really felt like fall for the first time here in Carolina.

Literal frost in the pumpkin. So, um, good to chat with you. And, uh, I, I can't believe in 2003, Harry. That's when we met. 2003. It goes. It's been that long. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Kevin Hoverman: Yeah. Incredible. 

Harry: So you and I, we start, while you actually started before me. The copier channel, uh, for the company up in New England. But, uh, you and I met, uh, in the Washington, DC metropolitan area.

. Uh, we had a lot of fun along the ways, uh. You and I both got into sales leadership around the same time. Uh, what was, what was different back then for you in sales [00:02:00] leadership compared to where you are today, 20 plus years later, would you say? Uh, 

Kevin Hoverman: you know, a lot is the same. And not enough has changed.

Probably, I think I'm in a, in a different spot than where I was, but you know, I think you and I both became sales leaders because we were pretty good salespeople and we didn't leave. Right, right. Is that fair to say? 

Harry: Yes. That's fair 

Kevin: to say, right? Like we were achieving our numbers and, uh, other people weren't.

Kevin Hoverman: And so when, when managing changes happened or we grew is what happened where we were, right. The company started growing, we were there. And I think the, the approach then, particularly in the sales world was, if you are doing really well at sales, you know what you're doing, you're a leader. Go tell everybody what you're doing.

Um, and I think we probably had a very similar experience to how we ended up [00:03:00] getting tapped to be a manager of some type. 

Harry: Right? Yeah. It's very common is, uh, take top performers and totally wreck their lives by putting them into sales management. So, yeah. Uh, I don't know about you, but I failed miserably my first go around because I had, I inherited a team, um, that just.

Many did not wanna be there. And so that was a problem. And then trying to figure out who was going to be there, who wanted to leave, helping people out the door, hiring people, all of this was like completely foreign. If you're a salesperson and you're, you know, you're watching other leaders, but it's not like this is your everyday thing.

So is that a challenge for you as well? Um, 

Kevin Hoverman: the hardest part for me was, uh, so I inherited as a team as well. You know, I was, I think I was 24 when I got promoted. . And I had some folks on my team. Who were not 24, who were 20, 30 years. My [00:04:00] elders. 

Speaker 3: Mm. 

Kevin Hoverman: Yep. Um, and trying to tell these guys who I, I looked up to, still looked up to, but were like, the guys sitting next to me that I would go to and ask questions, and now I'm supposed to tell them what to do was a hard transition for me.

But the biggest challenge was, you mentioned it was recruiting. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea how to interview people. I probably asked a bunch of illegal questions back then. Uh, I think the statute of limitations has, has elapsed on that, you know? Um, I'm with you on that. 'cause I didn't, 

Kevin: I didn't know 

Kevin Hoverman: Right.

Kevin: I didn't know. 

Kevin Hoverman: Um, and, uh, I, I, I don't wanna say I didn't get any training, but the training was sort of like. Uh, hey, how do I do this? And they're like, what do you mean you don't know? Will you just go see X, Y, and Z or pick up this thing and follow that manual? I, I don't know. Um, so there was a little bit of managing by the seat of my pants.

Yeah. Um, I was fortunate in that, um, my tenured folks. Were super [00:05:00] willing and open to trying new things and being coachable and learning. And so they let me say, Hey, are you, would you be willing to try this? And they'd go try it. They were open to it. Um, and I got lucky in that, uh, you know, my first couple hires.

Pablo, right. One of my first hires, um, who ended up just being an incredible human first, a good salesperson second, and, and I got lucky. Um, yeah, but also had some really good mentors. You know, we had, we were lucky, we had some really good mentors and we were part of, uh, what, when I look back on, was almost like a, kinda like a sales heaven.

I, I didn't know how good we had it. Even in spite of that, you know, we worked for a company that did send us off for training eventually. Yeah. Um, and continued to invest in us and was really, really open to us trying new things. Um, yeah. Uh, and I've always, I knew that, I'm sorry, pick up the phone and, and call, you know, somebody and say, how do I do this?

And they weren't gonna make me feel stupid. They were gonna help me do it. [00:06:00] 

Harry: Yep. You were always really good at trying new things. You always had an open mind, always looking to improve. And I had the privilege of actually working, uh, you were my sales leader for a while. Um, and that was, you know, there was just very, uh.

It was a cool thing because you were open-minded. I was always, I mean, I was still new in sales, relatively. I mean, uh, and it just was a great experience to have someone who was, uh. Open-minded enough to try new things and wasn't so overly concerned. Not that quota doesn't matter. I don't want to offend anybody, but the numbers follow if you're doing the right things.

Was always my belief. Um. Yes, that open-mindedness to try new things and you setting, really taking the lead, uh, which is a really challenging thing at times because you have to be humble. Uh, people use the word [00:07:00] authentic, but you, you can make mistakes pretty easily when you're trying new things. So what gave you the courage to go out and try the new things, the new technology, different approaches, um, without necessarily fearing that, uh, you might look silly or something.

Kevin Hoverman: Um, I think some of it, a lot of it comes from, uh, you know, my family unit growing up. So both my parents were teachers. Ah, um, my dad was an English teacher, high school English teacher. My mom was a high school chorus teacher. Um, they both changed careers. Uh, my dad taught. For 17 years and then went into sales.

He was also a wrestling coach, started the wrestling program at my high school. He is in the New England Wrestling Hall of Fame. Um, but after 17 years of being an English teacher, he went into pharmaceutical sales. Wow, okay. Yeah. So I saw him try something completely new. My mom, who is a chorus teacher, uh, went into radio.

Okay. And ended up [00:08:00] like as a toddler, not toddler, yeah, as a middle school. I remember being her making ads, commercials for people that she had sold and my brother and I would be voices for her in ads. Yeah. So I think starting with my parents being willing to try new things. Um, you know, I think sports, you know, I've played sports my whole life.

My dad being a coach, um, I'm this the younger of two boys, so I was failing very early on. My brother let me know that. Yeah, right. Um, just led me to, you know, uh, if you're not learning, and that's really how, especially how my dad approached it, was if you're not learning something, then it's not worth.

Being around. Um, there's a saying that I share with, with, uh, folks who come through our training at Kelly University now, and I share with my kids all the time that my dad used to say, which is, when you stop learning, you better start digging. 

Speaker 3: Mm, yeah. That's really great point. And so that 

Kevin Hoverman: mindset has always been, you know, if I [00:09:00] fail, uh, at least I tried.

Yeah. The worst thing you can do is not try. Yeah. And I think in sales, if you're not failing, you're really not doing the job. So as long as I'm, uh, don't make a complete fool outta myself and I'm pretty good at that, doing my own anyway. Right. Uh, and even then I'm okay with it. I think showing that and showing others, um, you know, we can't be willing.

To ask people to try new things if we're not willing to try it first. 

Harry: Yeah. So good. It's like you've gotta be willing to go out on the front lines. I think that was one of the things, like when you've, you've had other sales leaderships and job, uh, opportunities and positions since the Xerox Capital Office solutions days.

Yep. Like I have, and one of the things I picked up is. We went out in the field. I mean, we didn't have the [00:10:00] corner office and barked orders and say, you should try this. We led by example, and that was really the fun thing is like. Because you could be humble, willing to try that type of leadership, which to me is, uh, servant minded leadership where you're willing to go first and put yourself out on the line and others would follow.

Sometimes, not always, but uh, and then the end result sometimes was a fail, but we didn't chalk it up to like, well, I'm never gonna try again. I'm a total failure. It was like, we seem to have fun with that. What's your thought? 

Kevin Hoverman: I think the, the one that the industry that we sort of grew up in and cut our teeth in, in sales is very, was very, it still should be.

And I mean we're, I'm in it still, uh, back in it after many years. It is very. Um, person to person. 

Speaker 3: Mm. 

Kevin Hoverman: Um, you know, I, I've always found the thing that I've loved about kind of the copier industry is that I do get [00:11:00] to go out and talk to business owners and executives and learn about their business. And I'm, I'm always fascinated with like, how do you do what you do and make money doing that?

Right. How do you solve those problems for people and they pay you? Yeah. Um, you know, that is different from what, what I do, uh, have always done. And so for me, that was the exciting part. Like, let's go out there. I, I did spend four years behind a screen doing this, uh, and it was not as fun. Yeah. Um, 

Harry: what was that, what were you missing in that period?

Kevin Hoverman: Um, action. There's a lot of it. And what I mean by action is I was sitting. All day. . Standing some of the day. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Kevin Hoverman: Um, but the, the, for me, you know, if I'm getting, if I feel myself, my energy lagging or a little bit of the, you know, uh, the, the blues or, uh, you know, some sort of depression for, for lack of a better word, coming in, I know that if I go out [00:12:00] and I move and I walk around and I see people and I talk to people, I'm gonna feel better.

Um, those days, I, I spent yesterday with a, with a new rep of ours down on the coast. Um, and I was in a car for six hours yesterday, driving there and back. Um, but the six hours I spent with him in the field. I was supercharged on the way home. Right. I knew I had a three hour drive in the dark on the way home and I was fired up for my day.

Yeah. And we were all over the place meeting with people, customers, potential customers, hearing about challenges, solving problems, uh, watching a new rep. Um, try something for the first time and see that light bulb go off. That's the stuff that I missed. Yeah. Um, that I, I didn't realize, and I was managing teams, you know, across the globe this way.

And even if we got on a team or a Zoom call with somebody, a client, and asked questions, it just wasn't the same as that physical activity of motion getting my day [00:13:00] going. 

Harry: Yep. Totally agree. You ca and it's so difficult to pick up the, uh, the personalities. The warmth that you have when you're in a car or you're face to face with somebody.

People who settle. I mean, I understand whether you're selling nationwide or internationally, that you have to do it remotely for the most part, but for those who don't have to do it remotely, they can go visit somebody, have a cup of coffee with them, walk through a proposal with them, you know, stop in and see how they're doing as a company.

All of that stuff just builds on the energy and the overall feeling that we get. And help them to stay loyal. We get it, but they also get it back. Right? There's reciprocity there. 

Kevin Hoverman: Uh, thoughts. Well, I think, uh, especially when you're in, you know, you're selling to the s and b marketplace, which, you know, I, there's this, uh, I don't know, dream job that people have.

I want to go be an enterprise SaaS [00:14:00] salesperson. I've done that, and I'll tell you, it was boring and not a lot of fun. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, 

Kevin Hoverman: yeah. You can go kill big deals and you can write giant numbers, but it was way less fun than, um, walking into a, you know, a small to mid-size company where I can meet the people who genuinely have pain.

Solve problems and, and also I might see them at the, at a restaurant next week. Right. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Kevin Hoverman: And I think, you know, I, I, there's a lot in our world right now that is, uh, distressing, disturbing. A lot of it comes down to our ability to have conversations with people that aren't debates. And I think one of the ways that we can really have an impact at the, the, uh, micro level that can help eventually grow.

And I've got three kids, so I think a lot about the legacy that I wanna leave to them, um, is if we can go out and have a positive impact on people who live and work in our community. What better [00:15:00] way is there to improve the place we live and as a local company who lives, you know, as a local work, I work for a family owned business, right?

Been around for 80 plus years to to be able to go meet with people where if we help them. Make more money, save money, or hire more people. That has an immediate positive impact on the rest of the people in our community. I think if we can get better at listening to each other, understanding people's challenges and not just yelling at each other or walking in and saying, you will buy this because I said so and really got to, how do we connect with people?

Have genuine conversations, learn about what they do, and figure out how we can help them just for the sake of helping them, and not necessarily for reciprocity, but just give to give. . That that's how we can improve our world in a real micro level. And if everybody starts doing that now, you see macro improvements.

Yeah. So I know that's probably a little [00:16:00] up there. No, it's great. 

Harry: I mean, it's, it's like, uh, I always to say my way of making the world a better place is by being polite, respectful, friendly, bringing a sense of humor, and you just don't know where that ripple effect is going to take place, right? Because it can turn a sour mood into a friendlier mood, and people don't necessarily think that the world is going to end, or they're having such a terrible day, they can't laugh, and then they're, they're going home with their family.

And then they're bringing what could have been a terrible mood to, you know, this guy or you know, this person kind of changed my outlook on the dates. Said I was, you know, I looked great in my dress or you know, I did a great job of training somebody or whatever. Right. So all of those things do make an impact and I think that ripple effect makes a huge, we we lose sight of what is the impact we can make on a day-to-day basis, in my opinion.

So good for you. Yeah. 

Kevin Hoverman: I think if we go in thinking I wanna sell something or I wanna save them money, instead of, I [00:17:00] wanna understand what their challenges are and can I help them solve them. . And if I can't, one of the, again, the cool things about what, how we started going out and meeting people and learning about their companies is if I'm talking to you and I can't help you with a problem you have, but I was just talking to, you know, Susan down the street who has a company that does, and I can connect those two again.

Now we're just helping our local economy, our local business leaders. The people that, you know, might, I might coach their kids, they might coach my kids. We may see each other at a restaurant. We may see each other at a concert or a game or whatever. And now we're helping our local communities grow stronger.

And, and that's, I think it, uh, again, uh, a way that I can feel like I can have a difference on trying to leave the world better than it was. 

Harry: Yeah, totally agree. And then you are leading others and. The way you're treating them also will be the way, possibly in some respects, that they will treat others as [00:18:00] well.

So, uh, that has the, uh, trickle down effect, I guess so. 

Kevin Hoverman: Yeah. Well, and you mentioned something earlier, you know, I don't wanna offend anybody, but maybe quote is not that important. And I think we did learn that. Right. Quota is a number that's important because it helps us keep the lights on and it helps us make sure payroll gets paid every two weeks.

But one of the things we do with our, with our folks, and, and that I took away from that early learning is that quota's not necessarily important to our salespeople. It's really important to the company. It's not really important to the salespeople. What is, is helping them achieve their goals. Yeah, and generally speaking, when you talk to somebody, their goals are gonna far outpace what our quota is.

So we work with people to build like individualized business plans. 

Speaker 3: Nice. 

Kevin Hoverman: That target personal, professional and career goals that work on an income target and help you work backwards from, you know, if you say you wanna make X, not just. You know, I want to go make a hundred grand. Okay, perfect. Right?

That's just a number. What does that do for you? [00:19:00] Right? Well, if I made a hundred grand, I could pay off my student loans or pay off my credit card or move into a better apartment or. Put on a new kitchen or buy those Louis Vuitton, whatever it may be. Sure. Right. Then it's a much different conversation. And I remember, you know, we both had a manager at one point whose, whose basic coaching style was.

Um, the spreadsheet says, you're not doing well, do better. See you next week. Yeah. 

Harry: Right, right. Um, what are you gonna do about it? 

Kevin Hoverman: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I gotta go tell somebody. What's your forecast? The one I I asked you about an hour ago? 

Speaker 3: Yes. 

Kevin Hoverman: Uh right. And I think that person ultimately drove us away from what was a good place versus imagine.

And, and I, I've also had this, these leaders who said, you know, Kev, you want to take your family to Hawaii, and you told me to do that, you need to make an extra 15 k. Let's go find a way for you to make 15 k. I'm getting in the car with you. Yeah. Nice. There's a very different way to lead and manage than [00:20:00] management by spreadsheet.

Harry: Yeah. Well, you know, you think of like, uh, coaching, uh, we're both fans of the New England Patriots. Hopefully it doesn't alienate too many listeners, but you know, we've watched over the years, one coach who had a phenomenal record. Um, and now we have a different coach who is, who has come in and is a completely different person, different style, and seems to be winning with now the players, loving the coach versus the players being totally afraid of the coach.

Uh, and I, when I look at you, I see you as a. Players coach, so, so to speak. Someone who really gets sales, who's out on the street, willing to do the new things, willing to have the fails, knows the life of living with quota, not stressing out over it, and all of those good things. So I've gotta believe when people are working with you, they feel like this.

Love that, [00:21:00] why would I go anywhere else when I've got this, uh, great leader? Um, but you know, things do come up of course, but. That's, that's a big part of it that people don't always necessarily think about. When leadership is great, we assume it's going to be great somewhere else until we start finding out that it isn't, and then it's a real problem and we go, can I go back?

Can I come back? 

Kevin Hoverman: Yeah. Well, and I think a lot of that comes to, you know, bill Belichick, the greatest coach in the history of football. You can argue that, uh, you're wrong, but you could argue it. Um. Definitely was a, was there anyone more prepared than him? Probably not. Um, so, and I think back to the way management was taught really in, in schools in the eighties and I worked for a gentleman in, uh, in Europe who really hates the idea of management.

The word management comes from the French menage, which means from the hand. Right. So it really was Industrial Revolution Managers literally said, Harry, [00:22:00] you will push that button. Yep. And you're not pushing that button fast enough. Push it faster. And that's how a lot of managers learn Belichick, right?

Yeah. He learned you, I will build a, play a plan. You will do your job. Right. That was, that was the mantra we all said, right, Harry? Yep. Totally. Go out and do your job. 

Harry: Yep. 

Kevin Hoverman: Right. Yeah. And you got a guy like Ray Bull come coming in who worked for Belichick, who won three so Super Bowls in that model, but then went out and tried that at Tennessee and had mediocre success and had to get fired.

Sit out for a year, see how, you know, I think he was a consultant, right? Yeah. For, for a year. Learn what do players like. Go back and listen to him, put himself in their shoes. And he came back this year and the Patriots are, are, you know, I mean, having Drake May and a bunch of really solid young guys helps too, and hitting a draft.

But, um, you know, the talent can only take you so far. But when [00:23:00] talent buys in. When you work as a collective, it's incredibly powerful and I think our, the way you and I think about leadership is not handing people a fish. It's handing them a fishing pole and showing them 85 different ways they can use it and encouraging them along the way.

Still a fishing. 

Harry: Right. Yeah. 

Kevin Hoverman: And they still have to use it themselves. And I'm not gonna fish for them, and I'm not gonna tell them where to go, but I am gonna say, here's how I've had success, and I'm open to what you want to hear as well. Um, and I'm, I've always been a big reader. You got some books behind you.

Yours Larry's great, great books. Um, you know, uh, got, I have an English degree, a speech communication minor, so I speak English real good. Um, but I, I continue to read again, something that my dad instilled in me and, uh, and the ability, you know, I talk about that a lot in the classes that we do. Um, but I recently had a rep who's with us four or five months who said, I took something you guys did in training.

I was struggling with it. I went to [00:24:00] find something else. I found another book. I'm using what it's saying, you should read it. Yeah. And I love that stuff. That's great. 

Harry: Yeah. Yeah. It right, because, and again, these, these are the little things that we do or you do that help make someone's life change. So if someone's struggling, I mean, the thing about sales and leadership is that it is, it works completely in the home and in your relationships, in your personal relationships and in, in the community.

Uh, so one of the things that, uh. You mentioned early on in our, in the green room, so to speak, uh, you talked about the difference between managing and leading. Uh, do you wanna touch on that a little bit? 

Kevin Hoverman: Well, I think, uh, you know, sort of the preface to think of how business schools, and, you know, industrial Revolution and management was, is, you know, managers, uh, tend to sit in their office, sit behind a desk [00:25:00] and tell people what to do.

And prescribe without potentially being involved. Um, and I think managers do focus on quota first and focus on metrics and focus on KPIs, and I think that's become a bit of a. A cancer in the sales space. Hmm. Right. You must make 100 calls. You must send 1000 emails. You must do four demos. Well, maybe you know, Billy.

Doesn't need to make a hundred phone calls. Maybe he can make 20 'cause he is going to visit people and getting the results. Everybody works a little differently and, and it's not just, you know, the way management has been taught was taught previously and you have a lot of people of a certain group who are like, you will do this.

These are the KPIs and we want to analyze everything. And um, you know, we go back to the Patriots and the, you know, Vrabel does use analytics, right? They went forward on fourth and [00:26:00] five from their own 45 last night. Right. Crazy. 

Harry: Yeah, crazy. 

Kevin Hoverman: And, and 15 years ago, 

Harry: would that have ever happened? Not a chance.

Fourth and one. And inside the 50, wouldn't it have happened? 

Kevin Hoverman: Dan Campbell went forward on fourth and two from on his own, like 23. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Kevin Hoverman: That never would've happened. Pun the ball. Pun the ball. Right, 

Speaker 3: right. 

Kevin Hoverman: But it's both. The analytics say that we have a better chance of success. But maybe more importantly, I'm telling my players, I believe in you.

Speaker 3: Mm. 

Kevin Hoverman: And, and together we're gonna achieve this. So, you know, I think manager is obvi. People have heard this a lot, right? It's telling what to do. And I think leadership is side by side. Showing them what to do, listening to what they want to do, and then helping them set KPIs and goals that help them achieve their metrics.

Right? Yeah. Because if we mutually agree that you need to make a hundred phone calls a week and you make 75, a manager would go, Harry, you didn't make enough [00:27:00] calls. Make more calls. Yeah. Which is really effective coaching and gets people really motivated. Exactly. Very. And a leader is gonna say, Harry, when we sat down last week, we, you wanted to make 15 k to take your family to Hawaii.

In order to do that, you know, we needed to get to seven or eight appointments this week. You fell free short. Let's go look at why. I mean, the thing that stands out to me here, Harry, is you made 75 calls instead of a hundred. What? What got in the way? How can I help you be more effective? Is there a reason why you didn't make those 25?

Let's talk about it and hey, you know what? We got 30 minutes. You do 10. I'll do, I'll do 10. Let's knock 'em out and try and get you more appointments. 'cause I want you to go to Hawaii. Yeah. Nice. 

Speaker 3: Right? 

Harry: Yeah, I, I just, you you brought up some memories is like, uh, activity is always, uh, not my strength, uh, for reporting.

And I remember my manager early on saying, you've [00:28:00] got one account here that's going, and if that one doesn't sell, you're not gonna hit your number. I said, oh, well, it's gonna sell. And that's the way I walked into my forecast meetings, typically with one or two that I felt were going to happen. I didn't have this, you know, 18 different opportunities that were all, you know, for lack of a better word, BS that, uh, you know, someone just got fluff.

No, you 

Kevin Hoverman: didn't, you definitely didn't fill up a, a pipeline report, but you did have two or three on a folded piece of paper in your back pocket or on the back of a cart on your dashboard. 

Harry: That's for sure. Uh, yes. And I remember telling you, Hey, this one closed for a hundred grand. He said, oh, Harry Bullwinkle, what else you got coming in?

So, yeah. Good times. Exactly. 

Kevin: Yep. 

Harry: So tell me, what's, what are you doing today and who are you trying to attract into your business? 

Kevin Hoverman: Uh, so I work for a company called Kelly Office [00:29:00] Solutions in, in North Carolina. Uh, and, you know, we're back. Uh, I'm, I'm back to my roots. Uh, we are a, you know, copier print, managed it, uh, at our core.

Uh, we also do some coffee and water. And for me, you know, our ideal candidate has some sales experience. Probably not in the industry. Mm. Um, but if they've got industry experience, that's great. But what I'm really looking, what we're really looking for is people who are driven to work, want to be a part of a team, but also want to, and are capable of self-motivation.

Hmm. Doing it on their own. So I get asked that a lot. Like in interviews. Yeah. What, what are you looking for for this role? And I, I, uh, uh, north, North Carolina State is about a half a mile up the road, so I, you know, if this appeals to the Wolf Pack folks out there, but I'm looking for a lone wolf that wants to hunt with a pack.

Hmm. So I don't want to have to say, go make calls. Right. What I do want to say is let's [00:30:00] work with you on a plan to help you achieve your goals. I guarantee there's gonna be activity involved because last time I checked, the phone's not ringing for people looking to buy copiers today. 

Right? 

Speaker 3: Yeah.

Kevin Hoverman: Um, but I do know that if we go out and we get in front of people and we make phone calls and we send. Emails and we create experiences with whatever that may be. Whether that's, you know, using some of Dale and the sales Rebellion stuff like the crumpled letters and the trash cans. . And we use Pop Rocks, we use, uh, kit Kats, we use, uh, all sorts of different things to, uh, have fun and try and create an environment of activity and fun.

Uh, and, uh, you know, I sort of jokingly say that we're working to make prospecting great again. That it's not this dirty word. Um, and then if we can help people have fun, create experiences, genuinely listen, um, we're gonna help you be successful. And uh, formula I've always believed to is attitude plus.

Activity [00:31:00] plus skills equals results. As a, as a person, it's your responsibility to, to bring activity. 'cause I, I can't make you want to go do stuff. If I have to make you go do stuff, this isn't gonna work out right. If you bring great attitude, if you bring, uh, I was in a, a, a presentation, um, in a law group that I'm, I'm part of association I'm part of, and one of their, uh, speakers said, leaders bring the weather.

That's really resonated with me. Like if it, if you bring sun everywhere you go. Right, and you mention it, you can change somebody's day. You can make that receptionist, you know, who's having the worst day ever, maybe have an experience that made them laugh and chuckle and, and you are memorable. If you bring the weather, you do the work.

It's our job to provide the skills. So we recently launched something we call Kelly University that, uh, myself and my colleague Brad are really passionate about, and it's really bringing those skills. Um, so you know, we do basically three weeks [00:32:00] of training spread out over three months. And so we hire people.

We have them work with their managers for the first couple weeks, experience a little what we do. Then we bring 'em back in and we really teach 'em how to make effective cold calls and a bunch of different ways to do it. Look, if the crumpled letter in the trash can doesn't feel comfortable for you, I'm gonna ask you to try it.

And if it doesn't work for you, that's cool. We're not gonna make you do. Um, it, we are gonna help your prospect. Knocking on doors is a key piece of sales, particularly for the organizations that we target, that SMB space, that community. And I think the easiest way to show up that you're show that you're a local company is to show up.

So we help people. How do you not just. How do I do it? How do I conduct one, but who do I go look at? How do I build a plan? How do I build a day? Right? We do the same thing around phone calls. We do the same thing around LinkedIn and emails and video messaging and text messaging. And I, I believe that, you know, it's really the, the prospecting circle of life now.

You know, [00:33:00] you have to meet people where they are and you have to do all of it. And AI helps, like AI helps you provide great research and great talk tracks, but if you're relying on AI to help you get a. A conversation with a human. Just sign up to be a battery. 'cause that's what you're gonna Right. Then I don't need you.

If you're letting the bot do all the work for you, I probably don't need you. 

Harry: Yeah, totally. I, I love it. It is, there's so many good things that you mentioned there, and to me this is such a, such a huge opportunity. You know, I hear people all the time who are in sales complaining that the owner gets to take time off.

They don't understand that the owner put in the time more so than we would ever imagine in sales, right? Because we cut out in the afternoon. When you're building a business, it is 24 7 and you're, you know, hardly sleeping at night 'cause you're trying to hit payroll. Tons of challenges. Right? . So now you have in, in my view, is like in an opportunity in a [00:34:00] company like yours where you have support, you have training, you have a building, you have technology to share.

All you have to do is go out and do the steps, right? The steps of, and most younger people these days, they're pretty good at social media. I mean, this is not foreign. So, you know, compared to the way it was years ago where we were dialing for dollars or knocking on doors, I did this before email even really started.

Right. So snail mail baby. Yeah, exactly. I had to send out letters. Yeah. Oh, thanks for that. Memory. Letters to Vito. Yes, there you go. Oh my goodness. But yeah, so it is like, you know, someone good in sales. Today in your industry can make well over six figures. Am I right? Yes. Right? Yes. And so instead of going out and saying, well, maybe if I got a [00:35:00] franchise, or maybe I'll get lucky and win the lottery.

Uh, there's a great in-between and that in-between is if you're an outgoing person or a person that you know, wants to help people. It doesn't even have to be completely outgoing. . But if a person who wants to help people doesn't mind speaking to strangers, doesn't mind learning. Uh, and working hard at it and not giving up.

And it's just like, this is like sports, right? It's like building your own empires. Like so many things that are good for your character are great for salespeople. So highly encourage them to speak to you about it. 

Kevin Hoverman: And I think, you know, back when we were getting started, like we wanted to find a job and stay there forever.

Yeah. Um, and I don't think that that is my expectation or should be the expectation of the people that are coming to work. You know, my, my, I, I see my job as really [00:36:00] simple. It's to help the people that we bring in to join Team Kelly. And by the way, this is not a family, okay? We're family-owned business.

This is not a family because you don't get to choose your family. And we all got that aunt or uncle or cousin that when they come to Thanksgiving, we're like, oh man. Right. Hey, 

Harry: leave me out 

Kevin Hoverman: of this. 

Harry: Come on now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Young boy, 

Kevin Hoverman: airy. Yeah, exactly right. Um, but you get to choose where you go to work.

And so I'm a big fan of, you know, we're Team Kelly because if you decide, uh, you want to become a free agent and you've earned that right? It's not our job to stop you. I hope we've done everything we can and you're as incredibly successful and you want to stay with Team Kelly forever. But I also hope that you've gotten to a point in your career where you are ready to maybe go take a leadership role or start a company or move for whatever reason it may be.

And I'm gonna encourage that. I want you to be able to feel comfortable [00:37:00] leaving. Yeah, it may hurt. But if we've done everything we can, we've done and we've helped you grow to achieve your goals, and that goal is in five years, I want to start my own business. Great. . That's really it. What I hope is that, uh, you know, if you decided to leave us, you'd, you'd say great things about us and you'd refer people to us and you'd help us hire new people.

Um, but again, the way it's this sort of, maybe a cheesy mentality, but if I can help these people that I support, achieve their goals, whatever they may be, and they decide to leave, all I've done is help them achieve their goals and then their family can have a better life and their kids can have a better life.

And again, at that micro level, we can have a macro effect. 

Speaker 3: Yeah, 

Harry: totally. It's such a great approach, uh, a little bit different from the way we are brought up in the business. So, uh, I love the fact that you've been able to keep making these adjustments, keep learning, have this very, you know. Serve it [00:38:00] minded approach to helping the world be a better place.

Helping others is all great. So if Kevin, um, where can people find more of you? And I've gotta encourage people in that North Carolina area, if you're looking to, uh. Make a difference and have some fun along the way and make some good money. Um, you might wanna have a conversation with Kevin because, uh, he definitely knows his stuff.

He will support you and he'll have some fun along the way. And I'm speaking from experience. So where can people find more of you, Kevin? 

Kevin Hoverman: Uh, so you can find me on LinkedIn. Kevin Hoverman, H-O-V-E-R-M-A-N. Uh, you can email me. Um, all, all my contact info. Info is on LinkedIn. Um, that's the best place to go find me.

Kelly office solutions.com is the company. Um, and we are currently hiring in all of our marketplaces and we do cover all 100 counties of North Carolina. So if you're in the Carolinas and looking to, to join a great team, and I am blessed to work with some incredible folks. We've got a great group of sales [00:39:00] directors.

We all have the same approach to that. Let's help you achieve your goals. I will say we will achieve our goals. So none of it matters without results, right? We, I think we learned that early on. That is still true. If you don't perform, you don't get an opportunity at leadership and management roles. So the first thing is let's go perform.

Uh, and, you know, we need to continue to perform and continue to grow. And, uh, you know. Our, we, we want to grow across North Carolina. We wanna grow into South Carolina. We want to grow under Virginia, and eventually we want to paint the world Kelly Green. So love to have you come join us for that. 

Harry: All right, well, it's been a real blast, uh, reconnecting with you again, Kevin, and having this conversation.

Thanks for the memories. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Bullwinkle. Okay. Talk soon. Thanks. Sounds good.

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-7: Thanks for listening to sales made easy. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe and share it with your friends. Also, you're invited to join the [00:40:00] Facebook group sales training, selling with dignity serve first, the selling will follow.