End Entrepreneurial Poverty: Why Selling Feels Hard

[00:00:00] Struggling with sales, head trash. What if selling felt like making genuine friends who truly want what you offer? In today's episode of Sales Made Easy, Mallory Steel, business strategist, vision architect, and founder of Think Underground. Reveals how women leaders can overcome entrepreneurial poverty and scale without losing themselves.

Let's get right into it. 

Harry: So I met with Mallory and I said, you've gotta come on to Sales Made Easy podcast. So Mallory Steele, welcome what's the good word? 

Mallory: Thank you, Harry. I am excited to be here. Think when you share words that you pick up on, you can, connect immediately where it's above maybe an awareness of some people that haven't experienced that before. Maybe we didn't meet right that day.

Afterwards having a conversation, we were able to speak the same language. 

Harry: Right? 

Mallory: Forget the English part. We were able to speak the same language. So it makes you wanna have another conversation. And I am happy to be here, but I'll tell you, I prefer being in your seat. I like being the person to ask the questions.

Harry: Uh, that's great. Well, [00:01:00] I'm glad you're, getting out of the comfort zone, so to speak. I love what you just said because we recognize, there are people around that you pick up on cues and you say they know the language. I speak. It's whatever it is, right?

If it's entrepreneurialism, if it's sales for me, if it's spirituality, there's a connection that goes beyond the words, which I love how you phrased that. 

Mallory: It's interesting because the person presenting that day was all about AI

he was probably speaking to an audience where half didn't understand and needed to be educated so they weren't picking up on the language. So if he had been in, in, maybe a room full of people who had already been educated about AI and where it was needed and where it was necessary, then that's a part of sales too, right?

Like when you're, when you're speaking to the right person and you can skip that whole education part, and you can just get into the meat of it, then you know you're in the right room. 

Harry: Yeah, so true. And yet on the other side of it, [00:02:00] the person did not necessarily, maybe knew or whatever.

I'm not blaming the person because it's set up with whether you have six minutes, not 45, but sometimes people will talk over, if you not clear on the terminology that the audience understands they can't do a call to action. So they're lost in the message. And you have some great messages that are being presented, not just in 1 million cups, but everywhere where people are speaking and they'll drop terms that it is like, I don't know what that means.

And then as soon as I say that, my brain starts going elsewhere, it's like, yeah, I'm kind of hungry. What's for lunch today? So what's your thought on that? Just using terminology that's. I mean, you might have heard the expression speak like a fifth grader or something like that, but getting to what, what does Mallory Steele believe as far as using terminology that an audience can grasp?

Mallory: So I don't know if you're gonna [00:03:00] have to edit this, bleep this out, but I don't know how to say it better than bullshit baffles brains 

Harry: good. 

Mallory: And I could bullshit my way through this conversation and throw a whole bunch of terminology at you that you wouldn't understand.

But what's the outcome of that? What, what's the outcome that I want? I have a background in computer science. Should I throw all that coding jargon at you? No. Why? Because it's not gonna get us the outcome that we want. I was just, reflecting on this, this morning where I've been booked into meetings where somebody thought we would have an alignment or some synergies, and at the end of it, I always reflect internally first, what is something that I communicated that made this person think that we had an alignment?

What is something that I said that made this person think we had a connection? Because I'll often end up in these meetings where they'll pull all these words, from the Book of Traction and E-Myth and how when friends and influence people and string them all together in one sentence and not understand how [00:04:00] they actually work.

'cause they never actually implemented them. So because they can throw all these buzzwords together. Now all of a sudden they sound smart to somebody who's never experienced it. They're like, wow, wasn't that smart? I'm like, I don't know which part. Like, what did you hear that I didn't hear? Right? Like, oh, all those words.

They sounded amazing. She's obviously smart. What did you actually take away from that? And when you actually break it down, it's usually not in English. So again, there's maybe a little bit different direction than what you were thinking of, but no, it's good. All the, all of the words are words matter for sure.

Harry: Yeah, absolutely. So, would you describe yourself as a brand ambassador, other than a business coach, but how do you describe yourself so that I could ask this question sounding more intelligible.

Mallory: Yeah. I think, my zone of genius is helping people grow their business, I love everything about business. I'm a very numbers data driven person. Um. But I also love people. Like I genuinely love [00:05:00] people, so I love asking questions. You put those two together. My two favorite things, and it's kind of marketing, right?

Numbers the data and the dream building with people. I know I'm on a mission to end entrepreneurial poverty and clarity really helps. So whatever is on mission. If it comes up and it's aligned with that, I'll take it on.

If it's not aligned with my mission, I'll probably make a different introduction somewhere else. 

Harry: Yeah, it's beautiful. And entrepreneurial poverty. Now I had this brilliant question, uh, but that, that takes precedent right there. Sorry, what you just brought up. Forget about my brilliant question that wasn't so brilliant.

Uh, what the heck is entrepreneurial poverty? Talk to me about that. 

Mallory: So again, from a data perspective, entrepreneurship has a different perspective in each generation. So if you're a first generation versus second generation versus third generation, and what the data shows is that first generation will build the wealth.

Second generation will expand the wealth and third generation will blow it all. 'cause they don't have the appreciation or the gratitude that the second one grew up with or the grit that the first one had to go [00:06:00] through. If you're first generation as an entrepreneur, that means you have a history of employment, means you probably have a history in your family of employment.

So if you are first person in your family. Where else do you go for guidance on how to be a successful entrepreneur? How to think differently. How to transition from having an employee mindset to an entrepreneur's mindset, to a business owner's mindset, because that's different. Are you trading time for money?

Um, so people are often sold this dream when they jumped from employment to entrepreneurship. Have freedom, be in control. You're the owner, you're gonna run your life. You can go on vacation whenever you want. They don't realize the terminology actually changes. There is no more vacations. But that's not a scary thing.

That's an exciting thing because you're building your dream life. But what does it take to get from jumping from employment to building your dream life? It doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen in a year. 'cause you have to learn all the things that it takes to actually be a successful [00:07:00] business owner.

So it's super easy to start a business. I think it's easy to grow a business, but if you don't have the roadmap and you've never done it before, then you're just throwing a bunch of spaghetti against the wall hoping something sticks. You're going through a bunch of lessons learned 'cause you're either winning or you're learning, but learning's really expensive.

So all of those lessons you're learning are expensive and you only have so much runway before you run outta money. And then you go back to the JOB. Entrepreneurial poverty is making the jump. Now, suddenly you're probably making less than minimum wage, working more than a full-time job thinking that you just sold your life for freedom and you bought a lie.

Harry: Oh my goodness. Where were you like 30 years ago? For me, the, 

Mallory: my first business was an 8-year-old. I dunno, 

Harry: but it reminds me, I used to have a janitorial cleaning business. I did a window cleaning job. I bid, $200 on some ridiculously low number for this ancient office that was built on a [00:08:00] 16 hundreds or 17 hundreds house that they renovated horrible windows.

I cleaned them and it didn't even look like I touched them, and then I spent days. So I, I worked. For $2 an hour doing this, right? So if you'd do the math, the amount of hours I spent for $200, it's like a hundred man hours. And it's like, is this freedom? Am I doing the right thing? Because I think the job paid me more money than this.

That's kind of one of the things, right? 

Mallory: Mm-hmm. That you mentioned. Absolutely. So 

Harry: So this entrepreneurial poverty, which I see quite a bit, I look at people, they have great ideas a lot of people feel like what they get. Done on the job they could do themselves.

They don't have to be paid by the employer. They can get paid directly by the customer, and that's where all kind kinds of potential opens up in their mind and say, I could be rich. I don't have to [00:09:00] work for this. I can work for X 10 X that, and it'll be easy because I know how to do the job well. Do you see that quite a bit?

Mallory: I think that's when people start to make the jump. 

Harry: Can, 

Mallory: I can do this better than the person I'm working for. They don't realize they have to be skilled at all the skills of a business owner along with the actual thing. 

Harry: Exactly. 

Mallory: Whatever the fulfillment thing is, that's only one piece and you have a responsibility to the business.

You owe it to the business. It's an entity that exists and if you are not fulfilling that role that the business requires. Who else is gonna fill that role? 

Harry: So that disconnect of not knowing the full breadth of what needs to happen in business other than just, I'm just going to cook food for people.

Okay, great. You're really good at that. But are you also good at personal branding? Are you good at marketing? Are you good at sales? Are you good at asking [00:10:00] for the order? Are you good at the admin stuff? Exactly right. So all those things like, so I focus more on the sales and sales leadership side of things, and I think sales in general is huge.

Miss for people, because they put it off as the last thing they need to know. And yet I believe that sales is actually pretty important. What's your take on sales and, uh, you know, asking for the business and so forth and developing skills there. 

Mallory: Just open the doors and people will just flow in.

Exactly. 

Harry: Sales 1 0 1, right. 

Mallory: That's usually the thought that people, that's what they think is gonna happen. Nobody takes action to get help with sales or whatever the thing is until they're in enough pain. So unfortunately people don't put a sales system in place before they make the jump and before they open their doors.

I really wish they would 'cause they save themselves all that pain. But. They won't appreciate it. We don't go to the doctor for checkups when we're feeling good. We go there when we're in team for something. So [00:11:00] I think the, there's a, there's so much to unpack and sales is the last thing that gets delegated.

You are always responsible for sales for your company. You can delegate the accounting, you can delegate the legal, you can delegate the admin stuff. You can delegate your email inbox, but. If you don't understand how sales works for your company, it's gonna be hard for somebody else to come in and understand how to be a sales.

Player on your team. 

Harry: Exactly. 

Mallory: You have to understand all of your content, all of your mission, your vision, your core values, what what it actually is, and sales is a process and a system. So I think a lot of, again, a misunderstanding or myth is that it's just a one step transaction. If you compare it to dating and marriage.

Well, it's like most people wanna just jump straight into the marriage. Well, no wonder why they're running away afraid of you. Mm-hmm. You have to hate them first. Get to know them. Make sure it's a good fit on both sides, and then marry them. So, 

Harry: yeah, it sounds like my first few dates with a little [00:12:00] humor.

That will definitely push people away if that's what you're asking for, the order before it's time. You see this in networking and events where people will just say, I do this. They expect if they have enough of those intros, business is going to come their way.

Then they're saying, well, that group is terrible. That event was terrible. I didn't get any business from it. People are all snobs. They don't necessarily look in the mirror and say, what is it that you're saying that. Could cause people to think that you're not valuable for their time.

So just looking at that is a huge miss as well. When you talk about sales and sales being a system, what's coming to mind for you? Because I hear this system quite a bit and for some of us that gets complicated, but what's coming to mind for you? 

Mallory: I think the word system can be overwhelming for people and they don't know where to start.

But to me, a system is something you can [00:13:00] duplicate. If you can't duplicate something, you're creating so much more work for yourself. The irony is that everybody hates sales and everybody wants to buy. If you can show up where your ideal client is nail your messaging and

show up in a way that allows your buyer to buy from you instead of you selling to them. 

Harry: Yeah. 

Mallory: You're letting them do what they wanted to do anyways. As far as a system, there's different stages, right? If you're dealing with larger corporations, it's a lot of people who come from, a sales corporate background who were rock stars in their role and suck at sales in their own business because now it's themselves, they have to be vulnerable.

And they're not surrounded by a whole team that supported them in the different roles they weren't doing. From brand awareness to interest to, lead generation to nurturing, to following up to the, the close is actually the final piece. Then if you do it right, they close themselves.[00:14:00] 

Where people stick all of the beginning pieces and just go straight to the close and try to be the closer. But if you do it the right way, you can let your client be the closer. 

Harry: Absolutely. And most people who are buying never even think about that. They're being closed. A good buyer doesn't even, you know, you didn't, they're not thinking that they were closed.

They feel like they bought something that was valuable for them. And so there's a huge disconnect there, whether it be from Hollywood or comic books or wherever people are picking up this line. Always be closing. From Glen Gary, Glen Ross maybe, but I'm sure it was around before then. Closing is a natural.

Relationship con continuation of the relationship. It's not the end of the sale, it's not the most important part of the sale. I think the most important part of the sale is very early, it starts with the introduction and how you meet people and how you speak with them. That can lead to a sale, but you can't be crappy at [00:15:00] all of the stuff you mentioned and then expect to be a great closer and that you're going to give business.

'cause you're just gonna drive people further away, in my humble opinion. Good stuff. So the person who is the new entrepreneur. You mentioned something I totally agree with. It becomes difficult to be a seller of your own self than selling someone else's product or service.

Why do you think that is? 

Mallory: People get too caught up in their own heads. 

Harry: Mm-hmm. 

Mallory: Don't worry about anybody else sabotaging you 'cause you're too busy doing it yourself. 

Harry: Self-sabotage. Yes. I so can relate to that, right? The, I'm not good enough. There are people better than me that do this. Who am I?

There's Zig Ziglar out there. There's Tony Robbins. Why me? I'm thinking that you've come across this as well, and you're, collective. 

Mallory: It's a massive challenge because. People were trained to think about themselves, to be perfect, to be [00:16:00] people pleasers, to be in control.

The truth is, you're not any of those things and it's not about you, it's about the person that you're serving. So if you can start your day better, I hear these excuses all the time. I don't have time for myself. I don't have time to start my day better, but start your day an hour before the rest of the world wakes up.

Start it an hour before you interact with another human being and start it with asking yourself, how can I better serve today? How can I better serve my clients? I don't like doing podcasts. This is not for me. 

Harry: Come on. Why you doing great for me? 

Mallory: I wouldn't be here. Right. I truth be 

Harry: told, I nevermind. 

Mallory: But even being on here, I could get caught up in my own head and say, well, what if I don't sound properly or look properly or like, and I hear that from a lot of people at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. 

Harry: So I, I'm the patient here.

I have experienced these things myself. A friend of mine several years ago asked me to join him on a podcast and do a co pod cot, pair up the podcast together. And I said, yeah, absolutely. Hoping that he would forget that he asked me. [00:17:00] And then months go by and I'm thinking I'm in clear sailing.

And he asked again and I went, Ugh. All right. So now I've got to say yes. I didn't want to, I felt, terrible on camera. I'm not, you know, this guy is a good looking guy, charming. I'm not any of those things. I have a horrible voice. I'm very nasally, right? These are things I'm saying, and I'm not quick on my feet.

I'm not polished. So all the negative things that I said. I believed. 

Mallory: Mm-hmm. 

Harry: And yet here I am today, five years later, probably 200 plus episodes on my own, another couple hundred with him. So we're in 400 plus episodes, and I was negative Nelly about this like you want to believe. But from that experience, I met such great [00:18:00] people.

I started writing a book, doing videos and my whole world changed. I think when people believe the head trash, it prevents them. From doing great things in their life. It's amazing what we let get in the way of our own success. What's your thought?

Mallory: I was raised in a family where we weren't allowed to watch the news. If it's negative, it's not allowed in our house. Oh 

Harry: my goodness. Yeah. 

Mallory: So I didn't know. No one ever told me anything negative, so I just assumed I could do anything. But you have to ground that with gratitude too.

Like, you don't wanna go over on the side of arrogance. But, you know, we have this conversation a lot, what is confidence? What's the root word of confidence? 

Harry: Confide. 

Mallory: So what does confide mean? 

Harry: Yeah. Trust you're speaking you're trusting. Somebody right.

Mallory: You're trusting yourself. People were getting this word confidence, confused with [00:19:00] arrogance, and they didn't want to come across as arrogant so they could never be confident. But once they realized confidence meant you trust yourself. Well now how can you trust yourself? It means you have to give more deposits to yourself where you say you're gonna do something and you follow through on doing it.

So even though you didn't wanna do that podcast way back when you said you were going to, you committed to it, and then you did it. You just built confidence in yourself because you followed through on something you told yourself you were going to do. And on the other side, there's a quote that I share quite often, and it's always play to win, never play, to not lose.

And if you've never heard that before, sometimes you have to say it to yourself a couple of times. I used to play competitive volleyball. Every time I had a killer serve, I could take your head off easily, get up to play, just play to win,

but every time I got up there and I said, don't mess it up. I went way out to the right hitting the wall and I'm like. Like where, how I wasn't even standing facing that direction. How did it end up over there? But it was always [00:20:00] related to the thoughts of don't mess it up.

Don't play to not lose, switch it over to always play to win. It switches your mind when you start to go down that fear path. 

Harry: Yeah. So how does a person who is. Struggling with confidence. 'cause maybe they're on a streak of not having success like they did in the corporate job that they had.

They get all this recognition, they get nice checks, they get bonuses and, praise from their superiors, praise from their direct reports. Then they start working alone. They just don't see, the success coming anytime soon. So it starts to wear on a person. So where can the confidence come from?

Mallory: Harry. It's almost like you just set me up for a plug. The Wow. Collective, it's exactly [00:21:00] where we come together. And, um, jokes aside, like. You are alone. You are isolated, right? The team is not there anymore. And the people who used to be around you, including family and friends, you probably outgrow them because they think you're crazy.

They think you're nuts. And you can't soundboard something they've never done before. So you need to surround yourself with people who get it, who get where you are and where you're going. For starters. Um, but I also had this conversation recently where in order to do more, you need to become more, and people think they need to default to that person.

They need to find that old person. They need to get back to who I used to be in that corporate position. I was a powerhouse. I was killing it. I need to get back to who that person was and get that confidence. That person was great in that role. They never would've survived entrepreneurship, so they actually don't need to get back to who that person was.

They need to become somebody new, and they're in the middle of evolving into who that new person is. They have to just be okay with grieving and letting go of pieces of who they used to be and embrace who they're becoming. [00:22:00] 

Harry: Yeah, really good. I'm just thinking through this and how at times I've looked at people who are successful in business and I'm thinking how, I dunno if you've ever come across these people, but it's not like.

I mean, no offense to some people, but it is like they just take risk after risk and are completely fearless and they play to win and win. And you look at the person and say, I'm not the brightest ball. I don't wanna sound like I'm, but you get the idea, right? It is like some people just, maybe we overthink what success.

Right. Talk to me. You sound like 

Mallory: you're describing me. Everybody tells me I'm missing the fear factor. 

Harry: Okay. 

Mallory: Right, but once the fear factor's gone, there's a whole list of things before you believe in yourself of where your brain goes, i'm not enough. I need more time. I need you. Come up with all these excuses of why you should delay doing the thing.

Harry: Holy cow. 

Mallory: Once you get over that hump. There's a [00:23:00] whole, there's tons of entrepreneurs who never had that hump 'cause they were raised very differently and, and to the rest of the world. It's hard for them to fathom. But once you get over that hump and you do believe in yourself, well now you've just freed up so much brain space to be where you actually need to be, which is strategic thinking.

What's next? How do I better serve? How do we do better in this area? It's all strategic. You have to get over that hump you can't just not think. You have to replace those thoughts with the thoughts that should have been there anyways. 

Harry: So would you say that most new entrepreneurs that, what do you say that are preventing poverty?

What's the line used? 

Mallory: Yeah. Ending entrepreneurial poverty. 

Harry: So the most entrepreneurs that are virtual in near poverty, would you say that their background. Is what's causing this type of thinking is the way they took the. Teachers telling them that, they're a C [00:24:00] student or their parents saying, in anger, you're never gonna amount to anything that this group of people had similar backgrounds.

And that's what's holding them back, is that they have not outgrown those thoughts or replace those thoughts to what is required as an entrepreneur. I mean, I know I'm simplifying it, but you get the idea right. 

Mallory: A hundred percent. I used to get so frustrated coaching entrepreneurs because I couldn't understand how I could lay out the exact formula for how they could hit seven figures in their business and they couldn't take the first step.

Once you dig and dig and dig and dig, you figure out it was something that happened 40 years ago in their childhood that kept them from. Taking that first step, and once they figure out how to deal with that they move forward anyways. They just weren't aware that was there and holding them back.

So I would say, 90% of the people that I've coached, that was the thing that was holding them back because growing a business is easy. It's very, very simple. You just have to be [00:25:00] willing to take the step. And consistently take the step. If you're too busy making all the excuses for why you can't do the thing, you gotta switch your brain to just finding one reason why you should.

Harry: Yeah. What you're saying is so profound. I'm gonna have to edit all of these gaps here. 

Mallory: There's the eye for that. Can edit out the gaps, the pauses, the ums, and. Yeah. Yes. A good world. 

Harry: Well, yeah, totally agree with you. And this is how we started the conversation.

We were talking about podcasting and the introduction to a podcast, and I was asking Mal some questions about how she does it and uses ai, and she responded. She said, well, we should be recording this. So we immediately hit record and we started, and then of course, the Great Harry Spa goes off on tangents and completely forgot about that.

But yes, AI is absolutely credible. I rely on it heavily and re replaces me most of the time. But getting rid of those word gaps and the uhs and the ums and. Classic. Mm-hmm. That I find myself saying throughout, but yes. Your, your, points about going back in [00:26:00] time, how can a person pick up on the fact

do they need a coach for someone to tell them or to get hit by a brick or something where they get shocked into reality that they've got this thing from? I could go back to my parents who grew up in the depression saying Money doesn't grow on trees. And so that impact it 

Mallory: actually does 

Harry: because 

Mallory: it literally comes from trees, 

Harry: which is, well, hello.

Yeah. See, I needed you before 30 years ago. Yeah. But that, that type of thinking, whatever it is, uh, can hold us back I remember going through some coaching myself where the person was saying like, you're coming from this mindset. That's not an abundant mindset. Where it's constantly, you know, things are difficult and so forth, but I needed to be told.

Is that something that people can pick up on their own, do you think? Or is this something that you've, they've gotta get with someone else that says and analyze what they're saying to [00:27:00] hear, you know, what's holding them back? What's your thought? 

Mallory: Yeah. Harry, have you heard that saying experience is the best teacher?

Harry: Yes. 

Mallory: I think it's missing a part. Somebody else's experience is the best teacher. Mm. Why would I go down all the, all of the headaches, the money, the lessons when somebody else has already done it? Someone else has already been where I'm going in every part of my life. I get a coach for every part from money investing real estate.

Business I have a coach for every piece because why would I wanna go spend more money and more pain creating my own path when somebody else has already done it? We all think we're unique. We all think we have these unique ideas. No, somebody else in the world has already thought of the idea you have in your head.

It's the execution. That's the unique part. So go find someone who's already executed. Business has a model, there is a strategy, sales has a strategy. [00:28:00] Real estate has a strategy. The strategy already exists, so go plug into somebody who's already done it, who's already been where you're going. This used to be a pet peeve of mine as I was scaling my companies in the tech and marketing space.

I would get pitched by business coaches all the time. I would ask them a couple of qualifying questions. One is, what was the last successful business you had prior to being a business coach? 99% didn't have a business. They just took a course.

They did the theory. They learned how to be a business coach, and suddenly they were gonna tell me how to grow my business when I already had a large payroll at the time. So my second question, for the 1% that made it past that first qualifying question was, what's the largest payroll you've ever had?

Zero. 0% of business coaches who I got pitched by ever had a payroll, let alone a payroll bigger than mine. So who did I seek out to learn from? I sought billionaires 'cause that's where I was headed. So seek from somebody who's already been [00:29:00] there. The challenge with new entrepreneurs is they have their ego in the way typically.

If they've been in experienced pain before, they don't wanna experience that pain again, whether it's rock, bottom or burnout, they don't wanna go back there. So they're willing and ready to be coachable and get somebody to guide them. But I think people get too attached to titles and love that they can call themselves a business owner, suddenly they think they have to be the expert at everything and they don't realize that it's okay that you have problems.

It's okay that, you're figuring it out because literally every person in business has a problem and is figuring it out. As you grow, there are growing problems, like there are growing pains, so there's gonna be a problem at every single stage in your business. So if you wanna lose less money and make more profit quicker than follow somebody who's already done it.

Harry: Yeah. Uh, I totally agree. If you think of like, if you're not an attorney. Do you want to study to become an [00:30:00] attorney so you can handle your own legal? If you're not a financial advisor do you want to study that? If you're not an accountant, do you wanna study that? There's not enough time in the day to be great at everything.

So you have to recognize your limitations. Some people feel like, they don't have any limitations and then they have burnout and that's not good either. So. Yeah. Good stuff. All right. So I'm gonna try to tie all this into sales as we want. We are talking a little bit about this.

Is that, um. People frequently, put off sales. They'll say things like introducing themselves. They will say, I'm not a salesperson, or I'm not really good at sales. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot before they have the sales conversation because they're asking for forgiveness and mercy.

Instead of doing the job required who do you wanna invest in someone that has confidence in themself, or someone that's vomiting all over themself and then apologizing for [00:31:00] it? Can we apply much of what you said to sales and head trash and so forth with the head trash and background and so forth.

Mallory: I think, um, when I hear people say I'm not good at sales, what I hear them say is, I don't like people. In my mind, sales is relationships. You're you by, you delaying selling to somebody, you are delaying that person from getting the answer to their problem from solving whatever pain it is that they're going through.

You are being selfish by saying, I'm not good at sales. You're being selfish, right? You're stuck in your own head by delaying the sale. So get good at making friends. If you don't know how to make a friend, I highly recommend you read the book, how To Win Friends and Influence People

I reread it every year for the past 30 years, I think what people, again, coming back to when they say I am not good at sales. They're saying I don't know how to make friends. And they probably don't. What I've learned recently [00:32:00] is people actually really suck at making friends. Why? Because they're stuck in their own head.

Instead of focusing on the other person, the person who ask the most questions, when. And you think you're supposed to go and word vomit all over that person and fit as much of everything that you know on that person as quickly as you can because you only have a few seconds with them and they need to know everything about you.

They're gonna care more about you if you genuinely, you can't make this up, like you can't pretend to be good at making friends. If you genuinely care about the people that you're serving, the people that you're in business for. You'll care to get to know them better. You'll care to ask them more questions, and you'll care to keep the spotlight on them instead of putting it on yourself.

And it sounds like reverse thinking for a lot of people. They think they're supposed to talk about themselves and that's how you make friends and have a conversation. But the truth is, it's asking the questions. 

Harry: Yeah. It's the, uh. You know, people think they're being talkative [00:33:00] is being conversational.

Mallory: Yeah, 

Harry: right. It's not asking a question and letting the other person speak for a few minutes and then asking another question and letting them speak for a few more minutes. That's, to me, is conversational, and if they never show any interest in you. That's where the person who is learning to be conversational frequently gets frustrated they'll say, well, they never asked me any questions, so I felt like I needed to tell them.

Whereas the disconnect in my opinion is you're not patient. You said this is all about them, but you gave it a limit that it's all about them for like seven minutes. And if they don't ask me after seven minutes, then I'm gonna draw the line or whatever the time limit is. So if it's really about the other person, then that [00:34:00] means it might be a meeting or an hour and then schedule another meeting before they ask about you.

I mean, has this hap, have you seen this in real life where you didn't get a chance to talk about yourself, but the person turned into a client or a collaborator on the next meeting or subsequent meetings. 

Mallory: I'll say how most of my meetings go, I spend the, the majority of the, let's say it's an hour, majority of the time, where I ask the questions to the other person.

And even when they flip it back on me, oh, I haven't heard anything about you yet. Tell me more about this. I'll say, yeah, we'll get there, but at first I wanna hear more about this and I'll flip it back and I will make the whole hour about them. And if you're not comfortable with it, turn it into a game.

How quickly can I find something that the two of us connect on? How far do I need to go to find something that we have in common? Let's find some common ground there are many times where I'm not trying to sell anything. I literally have nothing to sell, and they're buying stuff for me.

I don't even have to sell, like, because I've asked so many questions. And taken the time to [00:35:00] understand, they'll flip it on me and be like, okay, so who are you and what can I buy from you? I'm like, I have nothing to sell. It's nice meeting you. So what do you wanna be known for?

Right. Everybody wants to know. I got a guy for that. Well, now I'm, the guy for. People who wanna grow their business, they just need to hear a couple of key words are like, I got a guy. So you can make it a game.

Make the whole conversation about them. And oftentimes it's in the very last sentence that they're buying from me and I didn't even try to offer them anything. You've asked me a lot of questions. You seem to understand a lot about this thing. Can you help me with it? Sure. There's my closing line.

Sure. 

Harry: Yeah. It's a ma it's a masterful. You should write a book and how to close 

Mallory: Yeah. 

Harry: Sure. 

Mallory: Yeah. 

Harry: Yeah. So you're in agreement with me. This does not need to be about you as the seller or the business owner trying to make a sale. I go back to my.

Bible based background in the mission field always make it about the other [00:36:00] person. There is no caveat that says always make it about the other person until you get sick of it and then make it about yourself. That has always worked in sales. When we make it about ourselves, people will lump you in.

With other salespeople, even though you say, I'm not a salesperson, or I'm not in sales, even though you say those things, as soon as you make it about yourself, you get pigeonholed, categorized as the slimy salesperson that's always thinking about themselves. 

Mallory: Yeah. So don't be a salesperson, be a fundraiser.

There's a term fundraising. Love it. Right? We just ran a competition around this recently and, uh, it was amazing to see how many people had to go back to training on how to make a friend. If you change your mind, like your, shift your mindset around the words and use different words in your mind when you go into a meeting.

I'm not here to sell something. I'm here to make a friend. 

Harry: Yeah. Have you ever heard this one? But I don't really like people 

Mallory: think then [00:37:00] don't be a business owner. Yeah. Advice. You're always gonna be with people. Like even as you scale, if you are no longer doing sales, your role becomes leading a team.

Harry: Is sales. 

Mallory: Which is sales, but also people. Yeah, exactly. People inside the organization or inside the organization. And you need their buy-in. You need to, refine your messaging and raise friends differently, but you need buy-in from your people and your clients.

If you don't like people. Don't be a business owner. 

Harry: Yeah, I totally agree. I get blown outta the water when I hear people say that. It's like, so you wanna connect with people? You say you don't like people, then that's already sending out a message and no wonder you're struggling on doing the friend raising, 

Mallory: yeah.

Harry: Yeah. Good stuff. All right. So. I know I've kept you super valuable information. You have this wow collective. What does the WOW stand for again? Warriors of Wealth. All right. 

Mallory: We're building women who are futureproof, future proof women who [00:38:00] are limitless, indestructible, irreplaceable.

Harry: Fantastic. Uh, and can some men talk to you? I mean, is this just a women exclusive 

Mallory: men can talk to me. This is just for women right now. We'll launch the men maybe in a couple years.

Harry: All right. I just wanna men know what they're 

Mallory: usually on a one-to-one basis, but the community 

Harry: super valuable. All right. My friend Mal, a blast. Any final thoughts here that you have for us, for the listener? 

Mallory: Great question. Harry, I think you did a great job hosting and, if you want to be better at sales, better at friend raising, better at asking questions, maybe learn how to host a podcast because you have to be good at, having a conversation.

Harry: you. Yeah, absolutely. I'm still working on it myself, so one day. This has been a blast, Mallory. Thank you so much for joining me. 

Mallory: Thank you. I appreciate it. 

Speaker: Thanks for listening to this episode of Sales Made Easy. If you enjoyed it and know an entrepreneur or salesperson who could benefit, please share it. And if you haven't already, hit subscribe and leave a quick review to [00:39:00] help others find the show. I look forward to seeing you right here next time.