March 19, 2026

When Suicide Touches A Family with Kirsten O'Connor

Send us Fan Mail Some of the most dangerous myths about suicide sound polite on the surface: “They were selfish,” “They did it for attention,” “If you talk about it, you’ll make it worse.” We push back on all of that with a conversation that stays human, specific, and real. We’re joined by Kirsten O’Connor, an author from New Zealand and the mother of Kahlia, who died at 24. Kirsten helps us remember the full person behind the loss: a bright, musical, loyal young woman with a psychology back...

Send us Fan Mail

Some of the most dangerous myths about suicide sound polite on the surface: “They were selfish,” “They did it for attention,” “If you talk about it, you’ll make it worse.” We push back on all of that with a conversation that stays human, specific, and real.

We’re joined by Kirsten O’Connor, an author from New Zealand and the mother of Kahlia, who died at 24. Kirsten helps us remember the full person behind the loss: a bright, musical, loyal young woman with a psychology background, close friendships, and a huge heart for others. We also talk about the part people miss, how someone can “present well” while living with depression, anxiety, self-harm, and suicidal ideation, and how that invisibility can become a barrier to getting help.

Kirsten shares the layered realities that often sit underneath suicidality: coercive control and emotional abuse, financial abuse that traps families, the isolating impact of COVID lockdowns, and the devastating ripple effects of sexual assault trauma. We get practical about support, too: safety, medication side effects, therapy access, and why creative approaches like art therapy can help an overthinking mind find a new outlet.

We also spend time on what to say when you’re scared of saying the wrong thing. Asking “Are you feeling suicidal?” does not plant an idea, it can open a door. If you or someone you love is struggling, help is available. If you enjoyed this conversation, subscribe, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find it.

Kirsten is the author of the book "The Year After Kahlia." It can be ordered through this link :https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-year-after-kahlia-kirsten-oconnor/1148894926?ean=9780473764609

Kristen also is the founder of This is Grief. More information can be found at https://thisisgrief.nz

Support the show

00:00 - Content Warning And Support Options

02:44 - Meeting Kirsten And Remembering Kalia

06:18 - Depression Behind A Bright Smile

09:16 - Self Harm Early Signs And Context

15:43 - Leaving Abuse And Finding Voice

21:47 - Lockdown Triggers And Sexual Assault

27:50 - Treatment Safety Plans And Art Therapy

34:24 - Love Myths And Suicide Questions

38:00 - Writing Through Shock And Grief

54:50 - Journaling Rituals Books And Closing

WEBVTT

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Hello, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia.

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Today we are going to be discussing some very deep and heavy topics, namely self-harm and suicide.

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So I would encourage anybody, you know, please take care of yourself.

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If you are in a position where this may not be an episode you are able to handle or listen to, we encourage you to go take care of yourself.

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You know, call 988 if you need to go to your emergency room, call your therapist.

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But otherwise, with us today, we have a very special guest all the way from New Zealand, Kirsten O'Connor.

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Kirsten is an author of the book The Year After Kalia, written about her daughter.

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And she is coming out with a second book that deals with suicidality called Silence, which is in the making, and here to discuss grief, suicide, self-harm is Kirsten.

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So Kirsten, thank you so much for being on here.

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And I want to say my condolences about your daughter.

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Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for that.

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So tell us a little bit about Kalia.

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What was she like?

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I love talking about Kalia.

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She was absolutely wonderful.

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She um was 24 when she died, so I had an amazing time with her.

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I do feel really privileged as a mother to have been able to spend that time with her.

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We were very similar and very close.

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Um, she used to call me her soul mate at times, so we had a really dynamic, reciprocal relationship.

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Um, and that, you know, that is, I'm so lucky to have had that.

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She was fun, she was intelligent.

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I mean, you could list all the amazing things that she was.

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I used to always say that she was the better version of me.

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She was highly empathetic, I mean, she was loyal, she would always be with you in a crisis and stand by you.

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Yeah, it's really hard to sum someone up in a few words.

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Um, she was she had a psychology degree and worked in human resource um right up until till her death.

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Um, so she her main purpose, I think, for being was to help other people.

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So it seemed like she was uh very full of life, had a big heart, wanted to be helping others and had a passion.

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And like, was she involved in a lot of things growing up that you remember?

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Was she into like sports?

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Was she into She was very musical.

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Um, and actually after she died, we had her cremated with her guitar.

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So my dad is a musician and he taught her to play guitar, so she had an incredible voice.

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She used to write songs and sing, um, and that was her big passion.

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She loved netball and different sports like that growing up.

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She loved being in school productions.

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She was a really, really talented young lady.

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She loved cooking and baking, used to make the most incredible cakes, and yeah, yeah, she's a very talented young girl.

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What was her favorite cake she made?

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She used to make that this Hadias cake.

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When I say Hadias, it was really sweet, and I don't have a sweet tooth.

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So a chocolate ghetto cake, and she used to make the icing with cream and all kinds of things.

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So it used to you could only have a small slither of it because it would um be so rich.

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As you describe it.

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What was one of your favorite memories you had with her?

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One of my favorite memories is we loved musicals together.

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I am not musically inclined, but she is.

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So um she used to watch musical kids together and sing the songs.

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So one of the favorite ones that we used to watch was Mamma Mia.

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And she used to sing Yeah, The Winner Takes It All, and that was her signature song, and she used to belt it out so loudly, it was great.

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Yeah.

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And did she have like a lot of friends growing up?

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Did she have like a close community of people?

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She had a small group of friends, and they remained friends and still do remain friends.

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So there was a group of five girls that moved through life together.

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That's you know, and when you find friends like that, that you move through life through every stage, that's a blessing for sure.

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So tell us what then ended up happening because you know, you're describing a very happy girl, very jubilant, very um talented, you know, close group of friends, you know, studied human psychology.

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Yeah.

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And and that is important for me to get across because people that suffer from mental health can have a wonderful life and be amazing to be around.

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It's not always what it's depicted as.

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And that can actually be hard for people.

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It's certainly hard for her when she struggled for mental health and people, she always presented well.

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She always smiled and joked and laughed, and that was how she was.

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But she was also depressed and also had anxiety and also had underlying mental health conditions, other mental health conditions.

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So that was actually one of the biggest barriers of her getting help.

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So um about a year before she died, she told me that she had suicidal ideology, and over that last year, she did attempt four times at least four times.

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Prior to that, um, she she had had mental health issues from the first memory I have is when she was 16 to 18, was quite a bad period for her.

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However, at 18, she managed to move past and moved into a good place and felt very proud of herself.

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However, two years before she died, she was actually sexually assaulted, and that brought back different feelings, and that was the catalyst for her struggling again with her mental health.

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As I said, Kalia and I were really close and we spoke about a lot of things.

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She actually told me that the her first signs of experience problems with mental health was when she was 12, but she never quite understood what it was at 12, um, and I didn't understand at that time.

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When she was 15, I can't remember if it was 15 or 16, it was probably 15, I noticed um self-harm marks, and I didn't understand self-harm, and I, you know, so I spoke to her.

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Um, it's really interesting as you understand things as you move through, but to go back to that time, I thought it was attention seeking, I thought it was something that her group was doing.

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Um, I didn't realize the enormity of it.

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Um, I think it was the narrative that was around at the time.

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This is in the 1900s.

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Um, and so I just said to her, you know, just stop doing it.

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What are you doing?

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Stop doing it.

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I didn't realise that it became such a problem for her, and that became a problem for the rest of her um life.

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When she started experiencing challenges with mental health, was there anything specific going on at the time?

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I was in a relationship at that time, um, and it was quite a toxic relationship, and he was very controlling of myself and Kalia and the rest of our family.

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So I think that that certainly played a part at that time.

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Um, and different factors, I mean, everyone's got lives along the way, um, and different factors she didn't have a lot to do with her birth father at that time.

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Um, so I think she felt a sense of abandonment.

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There's sort of a lot of layers, I don't think you can attribute it to one specific thing.

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Um, and of course, there's predisposition as well.

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We have got mental health issues within our family, both um my side and her birth father's side.

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So there is, it's never simple.

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And um, you know, Kalia and I certainly um dealt with a lot of those things in her adult years, and we spoke about them a lot, and especially um with the fact of the um her stepfather, she had really gotten through that and um really understood that situation.

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Um, however, I think it it always builds part of who you are, it's part of how you're feeling, and um it is a contributor, however, it's never one thing.

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Right.

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So it seems like it was just a very deep-cut wound where you know, she probably f you know, maybe felt like, you know, he wasn't in the like the birth father wasn't really in the picture much, you know, maybe it affected how she felt about herself and how she saw herself.

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You know, and you see this often.

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I actually am working with a client now where his father did the did something where they got divorced, his parents, but then after the divorce happened, my client was what, eight at the time.

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This was back in like late eighties, early nineties, and um, it was at a point where the father would put the responsibility on him to make arrangements for them to spend time together.

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But you know, and that's one thing I had to explain to him is I said, You were just a child, that was never your responsibility.

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That was on your dad to make that choice and to make the calls and do it.

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And Absolutely now from 16 to 18, you said that this is when the ideation started to hit.

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Yeah, I didn't again realize what it was at the time.

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It w it wasn't I think there was ideation there, but there wasn't anything overt.

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I'm just because we talked about it afterwards, it's hard to remember what was happening at the time.

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Um, she tried to run away from home during that time.

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Um, that's when she really started self-harming um at that time.

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Um, and she um took um some medication, you know, and she was quieter and she was um more withdrawn at that time.

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Um she talked about feeling having feelings of anxiety um and things like that.

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So that was what happened at that time, I guess.

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So it wasn't when she had taken the medication.

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I don't know specifically if that was an attempt or um experimenting with something either.

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And like what was like done during that time then from when she was 16 to 18?

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Was there any like like partial hospitalizations?

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Was there any like intense outpatient therapy or anything for her?

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No.

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Because I mean it's because it was it felt at that time it was so minor.

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That sounds terrible because it wasn't minor at all, but just in how the system was at that time, what people did.

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She did go to her school counsellor, who was amazing with her at that time.

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He taught her chess um and taught her about forward thinking and strategy.

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That's when she really started her songwriting and performing more.

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So she came there was different strategies that she used.

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She was always really incredibly self-aware.

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So she always tried to do different things and to help um in different ways.

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When she I think when she was 19 is when I left the stepfather, um, and that made a huge difference.

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However, at 18, she went to university and was able to have a bit more freedom in the home from that.

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So that also helped at that stage.

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Okay, and so like so things did so for the school counselor, he taught her how to play chess, he taught her forward thinking, all very um creative ways and helping somebody learn because chess is all about forward thinking strategy.

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And so she then went to university.

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She lived on campus.

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No, she still lived with us.

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We lived quite close to the university.

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However, because the timetable was different, I was working near the university so she could hang out with me at work and different things.

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So we were both of us were in a period of moving away from this toxic relationship, sort of putting in the steps to get away at that time.

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We spent a lot more time together.

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During that um toxic relationship, there was a the ex-partner definitely tried to put a wedge between Kalia and I and tried to separate us.

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So at that time when she was at university, I was taking her into university.

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We spent a lot more time together and we were able to bridge things and understand actually what the manipulation was and what was happening.

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So that was quite a a growing time for both of us.

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Okay.

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So it's like so it's like when the when the dynamics in the family changed, it seemed like you both had like a growing journey together.

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Yes.

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And what did you discover about yourself after that relationship ended?

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And what did you notice that she also discovered in herself?

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And I think that because we had gone through such an awful experience together, and of course there was a huge amount of guilt from me because obviously I'm the adult and I'm the one participating in the relationship.

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But it was the understanding of what emotional abuse is, um, what controlling is.

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It's very, I'm very careful when people talk about those things because people can look from the outside and think, well, why were you in that and how did you do it?

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But it's done so slowly that you don't realise it's happening at the time.

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It's not until you take a step back that you think, what was happening?

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I mean, I remember after I'd separated from him going to counselling, and the counsellor said to me, You know that you're in an abusive relationship, don't you?

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And I said, No, I didn't, I had no idea.

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And it's um just really interesting.

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Um, he was very clever too, because a lot of what he did to Kalia, he he did, he he did cruel things really, uh, just in how he spoke to her, but it was always when I wasn't around.

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Um, so I actually didn't know the degree to what it was at the time either.

00:16:19.579 --> 00:16:24.459
So Kalia and I, that is probably one I mean, we were very close.

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Um she was seven when I met this man, and we were extremely close before then.

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We always remained close.

00:16:32.859 --> 00:16:39.579
However, when someone's trying to put a wedge between you or manipulate your relationship, it does strain.

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So when I left, her and I spoke a lot, we uncovered a lot, um, decided to become, and this is probably why there's a book in the end um about talking about death and grief and suicide so openly, because we had a pact that we would talk about things honestly, authentically, we would just be completely open with each other, and nothing would I mean we were so loyal, like nothing would harm, would rupture us again, I guess.

00:17:09.099 --> 00:17:12.940
Because we were in that relationship, we weren't allowed to speak.

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He was in a position of power in the community, so we couldn't even speak to other people outside.

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No one would have believed us.

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So it's um it was a really interesting time, and I'm just so lucky that all my children have um accepted how it was, seen how it was, and they don't blame me for it.

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And of course, I've apologized and I've really gone through every aspect that I could with them and been completely open and honest.

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So I hope that they really do understand what that time was, and I do think that they do, and I feel very lucky that they are open to that because some people can close down over hurt, and I was the adult, and I was the one that chose to be in that relationship, and I was the one that stayed.

00:18:05.740 --> 00:18:16.220
So there, you know, it's a lot of responsibility and a lot of acceptance acceptance is the wrong word, but a lot of um, you know, it was my fault, and I carry that.

00:18:16.539 --> 00:18:37.340
But you know, one thing I want to say is, you know, a lot of times when people are in abusive relationships, whether it be emotional or physical, a lot of times people don't realize, especially when it comes to like emotional abuse, physical abuse, people know like that's more obvious, like, oh my God, he hit me or punched me or shoved me to the wall, right?

00:18:37.420 --> 00:18:40.140
Like that's more like an outward thing.

00:18:40.299 --> 00:18:43.100
People know quicker this is not good, right?

00:18:43.259 --> 00:18:47.500
But I think with emotional abuse, there's so much brainwashing that goes on.

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There's so much emotional manipulation, there's so much love bombing and other things that go into the mix.

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And I think it makes it harder for people to really understand because you get so brainwashed and so beaten down mentally, right?

00:19:02.779 --> 00:19:07.900
And I think, you know, and this is where, you know, that's how these people gain power also.

00:19:08.060 --> 00:19:13.019
The abusers gain power knowing that they like they know how to beat someone down mentally.

00:19:13.100 --> 00:19:18.779
Because when someone's beaten down mentally, right, their wherewiths, that power is just knocked.

00:19:19.019 --> 00:19:19.259
Yeah.

00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:20.539
There's that imbalance.

00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:25.660
So And it was also financial abuse, which I don't think is talked about enough.

00:19:25.820 --> 00:19:29.500
So I didn't have I had access to accounts.

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I didn't know what was in accounts, and if I spent anything, I was it was monitored and I had to explain what it was for.

00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:45.100
So when you're in that financial abuse and you feel trapped, you don't know if you can actually live on your own anymore.

00:19:45.259 --> 00:19:48.380
I didn't know I was working, I had a really good job.

00:19:48.620 --> 00:19:57.660
However, I because he took over everything and had for years, I didn't know if I could leave and afford to live in a house with my children.

00:19:57.820 --> 00:19:59.019
It's bizarre.

00:19:59.259 --> 00:20:03.100
And but again, that's another thing that happens over years and years and years.

00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:09.580
So yeah, it was uh I I look back and I almost can't believe it myself, what happened.

00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:13.180
And I'm certainly a very different person now than I was then.

00:20:13.340 --> 00:20:13.660
Yeah.

00:20:13.820 --> 00:20:23.180
But Kalia was an amazing support, both her and I've got two sons as well, and they were an absolutely amazing support.

00:20:23.340 --> 00:20:26.380
When I left, my youngest son was only 11.

00:20:26.620 --> 00:20:37.420
So I Kalia really understood um so young, and Kalia understood that I probably couldn't have left earlier because of him being so young.

00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:38.299
Sure.

00:20:38.779 --> 00:20:45.980
And so um both my oldest son and Kalia came to live with me when I left.

00:20:46.060 --> 00:20:47.740
So that was really amazing.

00:20:47.820 --> 00:20:49.660
They, you know, they helped out.

00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:57.259
And um, you know, so we had a really um blessed time for a few years afterwards where we're all back at home together.

00:20:57.340 --> 00:20:58.299
So that was great.

00:20:58.620 --> 00:21:10.380
When Kalia then went to university and after you had left um and started living in the house alone with the kids, did you notice that she started becoming depressed again?

00:21:10.779 --> 00:21:19.660
So when she was, and and I'm I'm so sorry because and this is a grief thing, time is so hard for me at the moment.

00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:23.660
It's so slippery, I find recalling when the times were.

00:21:23.820 --> 00:21:28.700
However, when she was, so she we moved out when she was 19.

00:21:28.940 --> 00:21:33.019
We went through COVID lockdown um in New Zealand.

00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:35.340
The lockdown was really harsh.

00:21:35.580 --> 00:21:43.660
She had had her first real boyfriend and um was going to concerts and had this most amazing freedom.

00:21:43.820 --> 00:21:50.940
She'd gone and had a big festival and stayed in tents and um she was really, really loving life.

00:21:51.100 --> 00:21:55.660
Um, the COVID lockdown really was really hard for her.

00:21:55.820 --> 00:21:57.180
She felt trapped again.

00:21:57.340 --> 00:22:03.340
I think that it brought up triggers of being back in that household after the lockdown.

00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:08.620
So we had, I think, six weeks in New Zealand and like nothing was open.

00:22:08.779 --> 00:22:09.580
No, nothing.

00:22:09.740 --> 00:22:11.340
You couldn't go to work, nothing.

00:22:11.420 --> 00:22:17.019
It was a complete lockdown, which was quite different, I believe, from a lot of places in the world.

00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:18.299
So it was very hard.

00:22:18.460 --> 00:22:20.060
She couldn't see her boyfriend.

00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:23.100
Um, and yeah, she found it really difficult.

00:22:23.259 --> 00:22:26.380
She um so however, we came out of lockdown.

00:22:26.539 --> 00:22:32.860
She decided that um she wanted to go um and live with people her own age, which was wonderful.

00:22:33.100 --> 00:22:39.180
And she moved into a shared housing um with people, and um that was wonderful.

00:22:39.420 --> 00:22:48.460
We had a second lockdown, but she was in we call it a flat here, which is just um so young people living together in renting situation.

00:22:48.620 --> 00:22:57.100
And Um they had fun during the lockdown and she yeah, she was just really embracing life.

00:22:57.259 --> 00:22:59.660
Her and her boyfriend were doing extremely well.

00:22:59.820 --> 00:23:03.580
They'd just decided that they might move in together.

00:23:03.900 --> 00:23:10.779
This is a f about a year down the track, and she had a party for a joint party for her and her friend.

00:23:11.100 --> 00:23:15.180
She was about to turn 22 and um had a joint party.

00:23:15.340 --> 00:23:17.500
Her boyfriend couldn't come to the party.

00:23:17.740 --> 00:23:19.660
She decided she thought it was great.

00:23:19.820 --> 00:23:23.420
She felt a bit of freedom that she was doing this.

00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:25.660
She hadn't had a lot of celebration.

00:23:25.820 --> 00:23:30.700
And um at that party is when someone, when she was sexually assaulted.

00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:35.100
So that was um the catalyst.

00:23:35.740 --> 00:23:39.340
She saw in she sought therapy in New Zealand.

00:23:39.420 --> 00:23:41.980
It can be funded when there's a sexual assault.

00:23:42.140 --> 00:23:45.820
However, it took a year to find a therapist.

00:23:45.980 --> 00:23:49.420
Um, and within that time she was struggling on her own.

00:23:49.580 --> 00:23:53.580
She did move in with her boyfriend, and things seemed okay.

00:23:53.740 --> 00:24:00.620
Um, and it was a year later um that she first talked to me about her suicidal thoughts.

00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:03.100
So And that's a very tough thing to hear.

00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:07.500
What was it like for you to hear that this had happened?

00:24:07.900 --> 00:24:08.460
Yeah.

00:24:08.779 --> 00:24:16.380
She what upset me is um she said to me, she rang and she said to me that she'd been taken advantage of.

00:24:16.539 --> 00:24:19.420
And I said, You haven't been taken advantage of, Bub.

00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:20.460
You know, you were raped.

00:24:20.539 --> 00:24:25.580
And so it was actually getting that language out there for her, taking away the blame.

00:24:25.820 --> 00:24:28.460
She felt, you know, she didn't understand.

00:24:28.620 --> 00:24:30.779
She she sort of said, Was I too friendly?

00:24:30.940 --> 00:24:31.740
Was I too nice?

00:24:31.900 --> 00:24:33.340
I said, You weren't too anything.

00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:36.779
Um, so it was really talking to her about those things.

00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:41.660
Her boyfriend was really supportive, um, and everyone was supportive.

00:24:41.820 --> 00:24:43.980
She did speak um about it.

00:24:44.140 --> 00:24:48.860
She never reported it, and to be honest, I told her not to report it.

00:24:49.100 --> 00:24:57.660
The reason was that she had been at the party, she had been drinking, she had had some social drugs at that time.

00:24:57.980 --> 00:25:01.500
You know, my ex-partner was a defense lawyer.

00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:10.220
So I knew what would happen and how that would be for her.

00:25:10.299 --> 00:25:12.380
So we did have conversations about it.

00:25:12.539 --> 00:25:16.460
I said to her, obviously, I completely believe you, obviously.

00:25:16.539 --> 00:25:21.660
We know this happened, there's no doubt there, but do you want to go through that?

00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:26.620
And that would have been, I believe, and I still believe, more traumatic for her.

00:25:26.860 --> 00:25:34.539
In New Zealand, it can take two years for um someone to even be arrested or go through the court process.

00:25:35.259 --> 00:25:39.660
And again, it becomes his word against her word is an awful system.

00:25:39.740 --> 00:25:43.100
I mean, it's just, you know, people that get away with this is just awful.

00:25:43.660 --> 00:25:53.900
You know, the huge part of it being consent, you know, even if she was drinking or doing social drugs, that still doesn't mitigate what he had done, you know, by any means.

00:25:54.140 --> 00:25:56.779
And she would not have been able to consent, right?

00:25:57.100 --> 00:26:04.860
And that's one of the landmarks of when you talk about somebody who had been raped, right, is that ability to consent.

00:26:05.500 --> 00:26:05.980
Yes.

00:26:06.220 --> 00:26:08.220
It was a protection for her.

00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:09.980
And she did find it hard.

00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:13.500
People can be very judgmental in these places.

00:26:13.660 --> 00:26:19.580
And she did have people say to her, to her face, but if you don't report it, he'll go out and do it again.

00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:21.420
And she took that really to heart.

00:26:21.500 --> 00:26:24.620
And I said to her, that's not your responsibility.

00:26:24.860 --> 00:26:30.060
Your responsibility and my responsibility is your health and how you're feeling.

00:26:30.220 --> 00:26:33.900
If you want to report it and if that's important, I'll support you.

00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:45.900
But it is not your responsibility to put yourself through something that you may be attacked or might be harmful to you to prevent it happening to someone else.

00:26:46.620 --> 00:26:52.860
And so she was uh a year then, she had to wait for like a year to go to a therapist.

00:26:53.100 --> 00:26:53.740
Yeah.

00:26:54.060 --> 00:27:00.779
And did she find like the did she end up then going and finding somebody she could connect with a little bit?

00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:03.180
She did find a therapist.

00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:09.980
However, it was actually she on her first attempt, her therapist w session was the next day.

00:27:10.220 --> 00:27:14.140
So she was discharged from hospital to go to the therapy session.

00:27:14.299 --> 00:27:16.220
So yeah, that's how long it took.

00:27:16.539 --> 00:27:19.500
Okay, so she did go to the hospital for Yes.

00:27:19.580 --> 00:27:19.660
Okay.

00:27:19.820 --> 00:27:20.380
Yes, she did.

00:27:20.539 --> 00:27:20.779
Yeah.

00:27:21.019 --> 00:27:24.220
And was there anything like did they give her medicine?

00:27:24.380 --> 00:27:39.820
Did they do any kind of like Yeah, so um she had an amazing doctor who so prior to the therapist, she had an amazing doctor who she had a wonderful relationship with, um, who saw her very regularly over those couple of years.

00:27:40.060 --> 00:27:44.620
So she was prescribed anti-anxiety medication, antidepressants.

00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:50.940
Um she another thing that sort of happened around that time is she just felt unsafe.

00:27:51.100 --> 00:27:53.259
So it was about trying to keep her safe.

00:27:53.340 --> 00:27:59.820
So she had always she had really enjoyed running and um she couldn't run anymore.

00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:01.820
She couldn't be on her own anymore.

00:28:02.060 --> 00:28:10.460
So we, you know, it was having to wrap around her and um her partner and I and her friends, just so that she felt safe.

00:28:10.620 --> 00:28:13.019
But she did go on medication.

00:28:13.100 --> 00:28:18.539
Um, but the medication was really hard for her, so she stopped running and doing those things.

00:28:18.620 --> 00:28:20.220
So her fitness went down.

00:28:20.380 --> 00:28:25.180
The medication made her put on a lot of weight, and she found that really hard.

00:28:25.259 --> 00:28:41.259
Um, especially being a young person, people don't understand that enough and they sort of think it's quite superficial, but how you're feeling about yourself internally, and then if it externally you're also changing, you feel like you don't understand yourself or what's happening.

00:28:41.420 --> 00:28:47.420
So that played another, that was another layer that didn't help her mental health issues and how she was feeling.

00:28:47.740 --> 00:29:03.500
So it seems like there just a lot happening all at once with you know, dealing with the assault, dealing with the just the whole, you know, the depression that sued after, probably, you know, the other triggers that probably came about too.

00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:09.580
And on uh, you know, then also having just come out of COVID.

00:29:09.820 --> 00:29:12.940
Yes, where, you know, that was hard.

00:29:13.660 --> 00:29:15.740
Yeah, and the theme was safety, wasn't it?

00:29:15.820 --> 00:29:17.980
I mean, COVID, we all felt unsafe.

00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:25.580
Um, and then with the assault, she felt more unsafe, you know, in this world that yeah, it wasn't holding her.

00:29:25.740 --> 00:29:28.940
She yeah, she really just felt completely unsafe.

00:29:29.019 --> 00:29:29.340
Yeah.

00:29:29.740 --> 00:29:34.220
So So how long did she then st see this other therapist then after the therapist?

00:29:34.460 --> 00:29:39.820
Um she saw yeah, she saw the the therapist for I think about a year.

00:29:39.980 --> 00:29:47.580
Um she stopped seeing the therapist probably about six months before she died, I think.

00:29:47.740 --> 00:29:48.060
Yeah.

00:29:48.220 --> 00:29:48.380
Yeah.

00:29:48.700 --> 00:29:53.660
With this therapist, did you notice that she was making any kind of progress with this therapist?

00:29:53.820 --> 00:29:58.779
Did she ever feel like she did, or was it kind of like she didn't connect well at all?

00:29:59.100 --> 00:30:01.340
No, Kalia always made progress.

00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:02.860
She always tried.

00:30:03.019 --> 00:30:12.700
In fact, when I spoke about at the at the funeral, I always said that she was one of the strongest people I know because she tried and she tried.

00:30:12.860 --> 00:30:15.340
So her therapist was an art therapist.

00:30:15.500 --> 00:30:18.940
Kalia loved art and loved expressing herself.

00:30:19.100 --> 00:30:28.460
And her therapist took her through a lot of projects, a lot of things that she could do that she could help to, because help to get out the thoughts in her head.

00:30:28.620 --> 00:30:30.700
Kalia's a great overthinker.

00:30:30.940 --> 00:30:38.060
And so actually being able to express herself through her body and through her art really, really helped her.

00:30:38.299 --> 00:30:54.220
And um, that's the important thing that when she was going, especially from the first attempt, so the first attempt to her death was just over a year, and through that time she did everything she could to make a difference.

00:30:54.380 --> 00:31:02.860
You know, she wanted to live basically, and she wanted to um get better, and she did try everything.

00:31:03.019 --> 00:31:13.500
We were very much into self-care and we would do projects together and different things together and really um try, try and try and try.

00:31:13.660 --> 00:31:17.259
And yeah, so she did um credible progress.

00:31:17.500 --> 00:31:20.779
However, different things would happen and she'd fall back down.

00:31:21.019 --> 00:31:25.580
I mean, there's a lot of job losses over the world, so she had lost her job.

00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:29.259
She had been however she did find one straight after that.

00:31:29.420 --> 00:31:32.299
Her and her boyfriend did break up over that time.

00:31:32.539 --> 00:31:46.779
There was a lot of, you know, and they are life things, but when you've got other mental health issues going on and it's just impacting all the time, there was just a lot of layering that made it a difficult time for her as well.

00:31:46.940 --> 00:31:53.660
And that rewiring of her brain, understanding what is happening, she wasn't as clear as she used to be.

00:31:53.820 --> 00:31:58.539
I think that she definitely felt she was becoming a burden.

00:31:58.700 --> 00:32:06.700
Um, I think that after multiple attempts, people didn't know how to how to deal with her and they needed to protect themselves as well.

00:32:06.860 --> 00:32:09.580
Depression's very hard to sit around.

00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:13.740
Um, so people were moving away from her life.

00:32:13.900 --> 00:32:14.220
Yeah.

00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:17.740
So she was feeling more and more isolated.

00:32:18.060 --> 00:32:24.299
Did she feel like her friends, the ones that she grew up around, were they kind of distancing themselves?

00:32:24.620 --> 00:32:25.019
Yes.

00:32:25.180 --> 00:32:25.500
Yeah.

00:32:25.660 --> 00:32:25.980
Yeah.

00:32:26.299 --> 00:32:28.299
And and that can be many things.

00:32:28.460 --> 00:32:31.420
I mean, life is busy and people get busy.

00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:34.299
And she I don't think she understood that sometimes.

00:32:34.460 --> 00:32:38.620
She took everything and and this is how her brain was working at the time.

00:32:38.779 --> 00:32:42.220
I think she took everything extremely personally.

00:32:42.460 --> 00:32:49.420
So if someone wasn't messaging her or if someone wasn't able to hang out, she thought that it was because of her.

00:32:49.820 --> 00:32:53.340
Whereas we know that people are going through their own things.

00:32:53.820 --> 00:32:56.860
People have their own lives that they're dealing with.

00:32:56.940 --> 00:32:59.740
But that is something that she did struggle with a lot.

00:32:59.820 --> 00:33:02.140
But I it wasn't from a clear mind.

00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:04.539
Well, she went through a lot of tough stuff.

00:33:04.700 --> 00:33:16.380
And you know, when you look at, you know, how she would take things personally if she felt like somebody was not able to hang out or was not messaging her back.

00:33:16.539 --> 00:33:28.380
You know, if you think about, you know, just some of the stuff you'd shared, it makes a lot of sense why she would feel that way and feel like it was an a was a personal attack against her, given everything that she's been through.

00:33:28.620 --> 00:33:30.140
And it's not easy, it's tough.

00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:33.180
And honestly, you know, hearing this, my heart breaks for her.

00:33:33.500 --> 00:33:34.060
I agree.

00:33:34.220 --> 00:33:34.779
I agree.

00:33:34.940 --> 00:33:35.180
Yeah.

00:33:35.340 --> 00:33:35.580
Yeah.

00:33:35.900 --> 00:33:40.460
Don't those deeply empathetic people that take everything on board.

00:33:40.620 --> 00:33:41.019
Yeah.

00:33:41.340 --> 00:33:46.620
The only thing that you with someone that is suicidal is to be there.

00:33:46.779 --> 00:33:53.340
That's the only thing that you can just sit in their space and be there and listen to the uncomfortable.

00:33:53.580 --> 00:33:55.420
Did I do everything perfectly?

00:33:55.580 --> 00:33:56.620
Absolutely not.

00:33:56.779 --> 00:34:01.660
You know, there was, you know, you don't want to believe that someone that you love so much.

00:34:01.820 --> 00:34:11.739
I used to, you know, and I mean, every parent feels like this, I'm sure, but if she could see herself through my eyes, it would be a whole different scenario.

00:34:11.980 --> 00:34:16.299
And how we view ourselves is very different sometimes than how we are.

00:34:16.460 --> 00:34:21.659
Um, and but the main thing was that she was incredibly loved.

00:34:21.900 --> 00:34:25.500
And I mean, if love could have saved her, I would have saved her.

00:34:25.579 --> 00:34:26.299
Absolutely.

00:34:26.380 --> 00:34:29.340
There's nothing, you know, that they wouldn't have done.

00:34:29.420 --> 00:34:33.739
So I take solace in the fact that she always knew that she was loved.

00:34:34.059 --> 00:34:35.019
Yes, yes.

00:34:35.259 --> 00:34:38.699
And she also seemed like herself to be love as well.

00:34:39.019 --> 00:34:39.420
Yes.

00:34:39.579 --> 00:34:43.500
Well, she taught me, in all honesty, what unconditional love meant.

00:34:43.739 --> 00:34:45.019
Her and all my children.

00:34:45.099 --> 00:34:48.460
That's what they have taught me as a family.

00:34:48.699 --> 00:34:50.139
Um, yeah.

00:34:50.299 --> 00:34:53.739
And I think that's an amazing lesson, you know, that reciprocal.

00:34:53.820 --> 00:34:56.299
She knew we used to have a terrible saying.

00:34:56.460 --> 00:35:02.379
And it was a funny saying, and it was always, if something had happened, I would say, Do you need me to bring the shovel?

00:35:02.539 --> 00:35:03.980
Or she would do that too.

00:35:04.139 --> 00:35:11.659
Meaning that she could ring me with any single problem and that I would um go and help her with no questions asked.

00:35:11.819 --> 00:35:17.500
So the bring the shovel is, you know, if there's a body that something happened and I needed to bury it.

00:35:17.659 --> 00:35:20.619
So we had that incredible relationship.

00:35:20.699 --> 00:35:27.579
But I do probably want to touch on something that's really important to me that I think a lot of people struggle with.

00:35:27.659 --> 00:35:42.940
And this is why I actually wrote um the second book, because there's a narrative out there that suicide is a choice, and suicide is not a choice, and it can be um really hard for people left after that.

00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:55.419
I remember seeing um a podcast once with a mother very upset and her son had died and by suicide, and she kept saying, why did he not choose me?

00:35:55.659 --> 00:35:58.059
Why did he not choose the love that I had?

00:35:58.299 --> 00:36:02.219
And I just one, I knew how much Kalia loved me.

00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:08.619
So I never had to deal with that, and I just felt so sad for someone that had to deal with it.

00:36:08.779 --> 00:36:14.699
So when I say suicide is not a choice, it is not a choice from a logic brain.

00:36:14.940 --> 00:36:16.699
So obviously it's a choice.

00:36:16.859 --> 00:36:19.419
However, the brain is very damaged at that stage.

00:36:19.579 --> 00:36:30.059

When Suicide Touches A Family with Kirsten O'Connor

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