April 7, 2026

The IEP Meeting That Made Me Throw Up with Paula J. Yost

The IEP Meeting That Made Me Throw Up with Paula J. Yost

Send us Fan Mail One bad IEP meeting can change your body, your sleep, and your faith in the “village” everyone promises you. I’m joined by Paula J Yost, who has a perspective you rarely hear in one voice: she’s both a practicing attorney and a licensed psychotherapist. Paula shares how living through clinical depression shaped her, why getting real mental health support in law school changed her future, and how those therapy tools now show up in the way she helps people in legal settings fil...

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Season 3

Send us Fan Mail

One bad IEP meeting can change your body, your sleep, and your faith in the “village” everyone promises you. I’m joined by Paula J Yost, who has a perspective you rarely hear in one voice: she’s both a practicing attorney and a licensed psychotherapist. Paula shares how living through clinical depression shaped her, why getting real mental health support in law school changed her future, and how those therapy tools now show up in the way she helps people in legal settings filled with anxiety, grief, and high stakes decisions.

We get painfully specific about special education advocacy and what it feels like to sit in an IEP or 504 meeting and realize you’re being dismissed. Paula tells the story of fighting for her son, who was born with a cleft lip and palate and needed speech therapy early, and why families should not have to “work around the system” just to get basic services. She explains why “we can’t afford it” is not a valid answer when a child is entitled to a Free Appropriate Public Education (FAPE), and she offers practical steps to prepare: define the goal, walk in with a plan, and keep bringing the conversation back to the supports your child needs.

We also talk policy and reality, including fears about Department of Education cuts, debates around school choice and opportunity scholarships, and why early intervention and early childhood education funding can prevent bigger problems later. Throughout it all, Paula comes back to the same message: you deserve support too, and the right village is built on people who will stand with you, celebrate the wins, and help you stay steady.


Paula can be found on Instagram and FaceBook as Paula J Yost Author. Paula is the author of the book "Tumbleweeds. How to be an Advocate For Your "Children and Yourself in a Failing System." Paula referenced organizations in the podcast episode with links (including the one to her book) provided all below:

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/tumbleweeds-paula-j-yost/1149570835

https://mhanational.org/

https://www.theamazinggraceproject.com/

If you find this helpful, subscribe, share with a parent who needs it, and leave a review so more families can find these tools.

Support the show

01:38 - Welcome And Guest Introduction

02:40 - From Lawyer To Therapist

04:55 - Expectations Of Law Versus Reality

06:21 - Naming Depression And Learning Coping Skills

09:21 - Family Patterns And Healthier Boundaries

10:22 - Why Dual Careers Prevent Burnout

12:13 - Grief In Estate Planning Work

14:18 - The IEP Meeting Breaking Point

18:11 - Why Parents Feel Abandoned

18:39 - Skip The Lawyer And Find Advocates

22:32 - Prepare Goals Before The Meeting

23:20 - Budget Excuses And FAPE Rights

25:50 - Department Of Education Cuts Concerns

26:34 - Opportunity Scholarships And Tough Tradeoffs

29:05 - Building A Village For Parents

32:29 - Celebrating Wins Other People Miss

33:43 - Writing Tumbleweeds To Feel Free

37:01 - The Trauma Schools Leave Behind

42:35 - Early Intervention And Pre-K Funding

43:54 - Helping A Child Thrive Socially

45:57 - Where To Find Paula And Closing

WEBVTT

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Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia.

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You know when people talk about finding that pearl in the oyster, today is that brilliant moment because our guest, not only is she a psychotherapist, she is also a practicing attorney.

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She does estate planning and intellectual property and does counseling for mainly adults.

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She is the author of an upcoming book called Tumbleweeds: How to Be an Advocate for Your Children and Yourself in a Failing System, which we will discuss.

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Paula is also a survivor of preeclampsia and is a mother to a child with cleft palate and has an adopted daughter and with us today to share her journey and her story without further ado.

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Thanks, Sonia.

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Thank you.

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I'm so happy to be here on On the Spectrum.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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We're excited to have you here.

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And I'm gonna start off with this question right off the bat, because I'm sure our audience is dying to hear this.

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What prompted you to become a psychotherapist after you've already been practicing as a lawyer?

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Well, when I was young, um, I absolutely suffered from clinical depression.

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Um, I was extremely depressed.

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I can identify two times in my past.

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One was when I was 17, a junior in high school, and one was in my second year of law school, where I was deeply clinically depressed.

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And I didn't get help for it when I was 17 because I just didn't have the resources available to me in 1997 in my mom and dad's house.

00:02:27.979 --> 00:02:35.500
But when I was in law school, I had a wonderful law professor who was real, who noticed that I wasn't exactly okay.

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And she got me the resources that I need to go to counseling.

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And so that counselor probably changed my life because he taught me coping skills and he taught me how to handle and understand what was going on with me.

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And so after I finished law school, I realized that, you know what, the law can only help you, but so far, like it definitely has limitations on what it's able to do.

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And I went to law school because I wanted to help people.

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I mean, I had classmates who some of them really did it because they wanted to make money.

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And, you know, good for them.

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That's fine.

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I'm not here to judge anyone's motives.

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But I did it because I truly wanted to help people.

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And so when I graduated, it wasn't satisfying because I felt like I wasn't always able to help.

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Like you can't always help in family law as a lawyer because you can't help somebody deal with the grief they're having over their marriage ending.

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And so I decided I was gonna go back to grad school.

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And I went back to grad school and I got my master's degree in clinical mental health, and I did all the hours that my state requires, and then I became a licensed therapist on top of being an attorney.

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That is so amazing.

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And it's probably very cathartic in many ways to be able to give back in different ways and, you know, also learn more about you in that process as well.

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Correct.

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Correct.

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So when you went into law school, you said that you wanted to help people.

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What did you envision when you first went to law school?

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Let us be clear that I had no idea.

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And whatever I thought, I was wrong.

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I went to Virginia Tech in the late 90s, and I actually graduated from Virginia Tech during 9-11.

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Like when two, when the planes hit the Twin Towers, I was a senior at Virginia Tech.

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And so there were no jobs.

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The job markets for college students all crashed.

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And I was like, well, I think I'm gonna go to law school.

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So I went and I took the LSAT, and I mean, I didn't rock star it or anything, but I did well enough to get admitted to school.

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And so I went to law school.

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And in my mind, being a lawyer meant that I would be able to seek justice for people and I would be able to be a voice for people who couldn't help themselves.

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Um, I I was thinking about law in a Perry Mason type way.

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Sure.

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I'm a first generation college student, so I really didn't have a gauge on what law would really be.

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And I think that happens to a lot of young lawyers.

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Sure, sure.

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And I think a lot of times when people go to law school, they have this idea, you know, that it's gonna be a certain way.

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But then when you get out in the real world, you realize it's nothing than what you really thought it was.

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Not at all.

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So you you did your L sets, you went to law school.

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You this is where a professor noticed you weren't quite okay.

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You went into counseling.

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And what was an eye-opening thing you learned about yourself in that process of being in counseling?

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I think it was just the knowledge that many of the things that I was experiencing were normal.

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I was a clinically depressed 20-something and I had been a clinically depressed 17-year-old, but I didn't know what that was.

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Like I grew up in evangelical Christianity where I was told to just pray my sadness away, or that if my relationship with God was stronger, I wouldn't feel the way I was feeling then.

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And that just made me feel worse.

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So when I started seeing my therapist, he was actually in Media, Pennsylvania, right outside Philadelphia.

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When I started seeing him, he was like, You're just depressed.

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And we started talking about the things in my life that could have potentially led to me feeling that way.

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And he was really good at helping me unpack the fact that there was nothing wrong with me.

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I was just suffering from depression.

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And that's something we could learn how to cope with and we could learn how to fix and we could prevent from occurring in the future.

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But no one had ever told me before that this is something that can just occur and that there was help.

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It was just like a personal failure before.

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And what was it like for you to realize that, you know, to go through and get the help?

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And what did you realize like was, I guess, behind a lot of why you were depressed?

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What did you realize?

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It well, first of all, it felt like freedom.

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It felt like hopeful.

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And it felt like, okay, I can do life.

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Like I can do this.

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I think a lot of my issues and were one, I was a first generation college student.

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So I really didn't have very much family support.

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I mean, I think my mom and dad loved me very much and they did the best that they could.

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But I just didn't have a lot of family support when I was starting off.

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And I also had no money.

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Like my college fund had$0.00 in it.

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So I really didn't have, I was on my own.

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I felt really on my own.

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And I always felt a lot of pressure when I was in school.

00:07:30.220 --> 00:07:34.860
But my mom is, my mom has a personality disorder.

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Like I think my mother loves me very much and she loves me as much as anyone could.

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But she grew up in a really violent, abusive household with a lot of alcoholism.

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And so some of the time my mom has trouble with emotional regulation.

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And when she raised me, I think she wasn't able to teach me how to regulate myself because she didn't know how to regulate herself.

00:07:59.980 --> 00:08:07.420
So when I got into therapy, I found a professional who was able to give me that foundational building block that I genuinely didn't have.

00:08:07.579 --> 00:08:10.620
And I'm very, I was so thankful and still am.

00:08:10.860 --> 00:08:19.019
I'm so thankful for everything that that professor helped me learn and helped me really like get myself together so that I could be successful.

00:08:19.259 --> 00:08:25.019
And to come to this realization and realize that this is a history that runs rather deep in the family.

00:08:25.180 --> 00:08:31.660
How did that change your outlook on things and change your outlook on how you view your family?

00:08:31.980 --> 00:08:32.539
Yeah.

00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:35.659
So, first of all, it gave me some better boundaries.

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It helped me really understand like what was okay for me to do, what I could leave in the past, what I wanted in the future.

00:08:43.100 --> 00:08:48.779
It helped me see myself as an independent person instead of an offshoot of my mom and dad.

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It taught me what my mom's personality disorder was and how to manage it.

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But most of all, it just helped me feel like I was never academically incapable, but I was struggling with my emotional thoughts, which were ruminating.

00:09:04.459 --> 00:09:08.620
And once I got those under control, I was able to cook with gas school-wise.

00:09:08.860 --> 00:09:15.740
And that must have been just like a weight lifted off your shoulders at that point, knowing that you had language to put around it.

00:09:15.980 --> 00:09:19.980
You had a course of action that you could take around it.

00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:20.860
Absolutely.

00:09:21.100 --> 00:09:33.339
So going into now finishing law school, going to grad school, getting your counseling degree, you are currently practicing law in and you're also doing therapy as well.

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That's correct.

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What's it like to manage both of these jobs?

00:09:37.739 --> 00:09:40.699
In all honesty, I love it.

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And I think that so many more lawyers, I think the lawyers that are like me, so you know, on the Myers-Brig test, I'm an ENFJ.

00:09:51.099 --> 00:09:53.419
And most lawyers are ENTJs.

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But I think for that percentage of us that have that feeling aspect, I think so many of us should look at doing exactly what you and I have done and getting that counseling wing.

00:10:05.099 --> 00:10:06.139
And here's why.

00:10:06.379 --> 00:10:10.459
First of all, nobody's ever called a lawyer because they were having a great day.

00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:14.779
If you're in a lawyer's office, you are upset and anxious about something.

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And I always want to help those people.

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So even when I'm doing a legal consult, I can't delete my therapist's mind out of my brain.

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So I'm always, I mean, when you hire me to be a lawyer, you're hiring me to be a lawyer and not your therapist.

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And I am very good at those boundaries.

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But still, I feel like it makes me a better lawyer.

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It makes me more trauma-informed.

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It makes me better able to help people that are dealing with grief or whatever it is that they're facing.

00:10:39.979 --> 00:10:45.500
And then when I shift and put on my therapist hat, then I'm not thinking about the law.

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That helps me extend past where law is limited.

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So I can really get into things like, well, the law couldn't help you with this, but maybe we should reframe those thoughts, or maybe we should come up with a different plan of attack based on where you are.

00:10:59.979 --> 00:11:03.899
And to be honest with you, I think doing both things prevents burnout.

00:11:04.059 --> 00:11:09.339
Like I say, anytime I get sick of being a lawyer, I'm like, well, I can just go be a therapist full time.

00:11:09.579 --> 00:11:12.459
And I can say the same thing about being a therapist.

00:11:12.620 --> 00:11:15.419
You know, if anything goes wrong, I'll just go practice law.

00:11:15.579 --> 00:11:23.979
And so it's given me a lot more professional freedom, but it's also given me a tremendous amount of personal satisfaction that I would not have otherwise.

00:11:24.219 --> 00:11:27.339
So you're doing mainly intellectual property and estate planning.

00:11:27.419 --> 00:11:35.099
So you are seeing people that, you know, are obviously shake, you know, a little bit anxious about something, getting their affairs in order.

00:11:35.339 --> 00:11:35.659
Yeah.

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You know, their stuff patented, you know, they're wanting to make sure they get things down.

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I had a Friday a couple weeks ago where I had a mother who had lost her son, a widower, and then a uh sibling who had lost her brother every hour.

00:11:51.259 --> 00:11:55.099
So every hour I had somebody crying in front of me and talking about grief.

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Nobody prepares lawyers for how to do that.

00:11:57.739 --> 00:12:02.139
There's no part of law school that teaches you how to deal with people who are upset.

00:12:02.379 --> 00:12:03.099
Absolutely not.

00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:08.379
If anything, what law school teaches you how to be is how do you get your winning case?

00:12:08.539 --> 00:12:11.419
How do you how do you make them more upset?

00:12:11.819 --> 00:12:15.339
Exactly, exactly, especially on cross-examination, right?

00:12:15.579 --> 00:12:15.819
Right.

00:12:15.979 --> 00:12:17.979
And that's not who I am at all.

00:12:18.139 --> 00:12:21.179
Like I would be a terrible litigator because I'm just not mean.

00:12:21.419 --> 00:12:21.899
You know what?

00:12:21.979 --> 00:12:24.219
I was I was not the same, I was the same way too.

00:12:24.299 --> 00:12:27.179
Like, I'm not a confrontational person at all.

00:12:27.579 --> 00:12:32.139
I mean, if anything, anybody who knows me knows I hate confrontation.

00:12:32.299 --> 00:12:34.219
And so I was not like that at all.

00:12:34.459 --> 00:12:44.059
And similar to you, I I had a law degree for mainly, you know, I went because my parents kind of pushed the issue and it goes runs deep why I went to law school.

00:12:44.299 --> 00:12:47.579
But I'll say this I thought I wanted to make a difference too.

00:12:47.659 --> 00:12:52.059
And but even when you look at different aspects of the law, it is very limiting.

00:12:52.219 --> 00:12:53.579
Even special ed law.

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I tried to open up practice with it at one point.

00:12:57.739 --> 00:13:04.059
It is very limiting, though, because these families are hurting who are coming into your office.

00:13:04.219 --> 00:13:08.299
Like the cases that you read about, these people are hurting.

00:13:08.539 --> 00:13:10.859
These people need support.

00:13:11.179 --> 00:13:19.899
And the thing is also when you're in a legal system with a school district that has a lot of power anyway, because the schools tend to have more power.

00:13:20.059 --> 00:13:28.139
That in and of itself, right there, it's like you're fighting for the rights, but it every nickel and dime of emotion as well.

00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:29.179
Absolutely.

00:13:29.339 --> 00:13:32.699
I'm I consider myself to be a pretty like tough cookie.

00:13:32.859 --> 00:13:39.739
I mean, I know I sound nice and stuff, but like I'm not a crier and I'm not an overly emotional person.

00:13:40.859 --> 00:13:48.299
I will never forget the day that I left my son's IEP meeting and I had I left his meeting and I had to go pick him up from preschool.

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And I pulled over in a CVS parking lot and I cried so hard I threw up in a coffee cup.

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And I don't want anyone to feel that way.

00:13:56.779 --> 00:13:58.059
No one should feel that way.

00:13:58.219 --> 00:14:00.219
That must have been a really tough meeting.

00:14:00.459 --> 00:14:03.899
It was a tough meeting, but it was it was a frustrating meeting.

00:14:04.059 --> 00:14:15.579
But I think I think one of the reasons I was so upset leaving there is because, in all honesty, my son's issues pale in comparison to what I see some other parents dealing with.

00:14:15.819 --> 00:14:19.979
My little boy has a high IQ, but he was born with a complete cleft lip and palate.

00:14:20.059 --> 00:14:26.939
And so when he was a little guy, he needed a tremendous amount of speech therapy because I mean he was born without a roof in his mouth.

00:14:27.099 --> 00:14:30.299
And his doctors were telling me he needed to get speech therapy.

00:14:30.379 --> 00:14:34.459
So I was very focused on getting my little guy the services that he needed.

00:14:34.699 --> 00:14:37.579
And I don't know the first thing about speech pathology.

00:14:37.739 --> 00:14:40.059
So it wasn't like I could do a lot at my house.

00:14:40.219 --> 00:14:43.339
I don't know how to teach a two-year-old where to put his tongue.

00:14:43.579 --> 00:14:44.939
So this was a big deal.

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It was something that was really important to me.

00:14:47.019 --> 00:14:51.500
And I felt like when I went into that meeting, I felt like I was ganged up on.

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I felt like a bunch of people who didn't know my child, who didn't know his medical history.

00:14:57.419 --> 00:15:05.979
I mean, I've probably read 800 medical journals about Clef Pallant because when I was pregnant, I became absolutely obsessed with learning how to take care of him.

00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:08.139
And so I did all this research.

00:15:08.299 --> 00:15:11.019
Like, I know Cleff Pallant really well.

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I'm not an expert in everything, but I know that.

00:15:13.739 --> 00:15:19.659
I probably know that better than I know my two professions because I needed to know how to raise my little boy.

00:15:19.979 --> 00:15:22.299
And I love him more than anything.

00:15:22.539 --> 00:15:27.179
And so when I went in there, I felt like anything I had to say was just discredited.

00:15:27.339 --> 00:15:28.620
And it felt awful.

00:15:28.779 --> 00:15:35.819
And I was I was mad and I was furious, and I walked out of there and I remember thinking, you know what?

00:15:35.979 --> 00:15:37.179
Screw these people.

00:15:37.419 --> 00:15:42.620
I'll just go make enough money that I'll figure out how to pay for him to get speech therapy privately.

00:15:42.779 --> 00:15:43.819
Like, screw the system.

00:15:43.979 --> 00:15:45.979
I'll figure out how to work around it.

00:15:46.219 --> 00:15:49.739
But then I got so angry, I was like, I shouldn't have to do that.

00:15:49.899 --> 00:15:52.859
And what are other people supposed to be able to do?

00:15:53.179 --> 00:16:02.620
Like what happens to the stay-at-home mom who has her own cleft palette child who can't just go make enough money to circumvent the system, what she's supposed to do.

00:16:02.859 --> 00:16:09.979
And God, God only knows what happens with these parents who have a child with a much more profound and much more serious need.

00:16:10.299 --> 00:16:12.379
No one should feel that way.

00:16:12.620 --> 00:16:19.659
Absolutely no one should walk out of an IEP meeting feeling like no one cared or listened.

00:16:19.819 --> 00:16:24.139
You know, we tell mothers all the time it takes a village, and it does.

00:16:24.379 --> 00:16:25.899
It does take a village.

00:16:26.139 --> 00:16:33.419
But when the village is failing you and when you're desperate for help, you're also fighting your insurance company most of the time.

00:16:33.579 --> 00:16:45.500
You if if the insurance would pay for things like OTPT speech therapy, nobody would ever be barking up the school systems tree to get those type of services because they would be getting them through their health insurance.

00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:55.419
But when you're not getting those types of services and you have to go to the school to receive them and then you don't get your help, it just feels it makes you feel so alone and so abandoned.

00:16:55.579 --> 00:17:04.460
And so I have a huge heart for these other parents who are in truly dire situations with their kids.

00:17:04.620 --> 00:17:06.059
Or and don't have the means.

00:17:06.539 --> 00:17:09.819
We are able yes, we are failing them.

00:17:10.059 --> 00:17:12.140
We as a culture are failing them.

00:17:12.380 --> 00:17:17.660
And so when you gave it some thought, what was your plan of action then with that?

00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:20.700
Did you ever go back and I sued them.

00:17:21.180 --> 00:17:23.660
I mean, I I felt kind of bad saying that, but I did.

00:17:23.740 --> 00:17:24.539
I sued them.

00:17:24.700 --> 00:17:28.380
And I'm legally allowed to say that we settled that matter out of court.

00:17:28.539 --> 00:17:30.299
But there again, I'm a lawyer.

00:17:30.460 --> 00:17:32.539
I was able to figure out how to do that.

00:17:32.700 --> 00:17:35.740
I was able to have the resources to accomplish that.

00:17:35.900 --> 00:17:37.019
Everybody can't.

00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:48.299
I will tell you what I tell other mothers, though, who call me and who want to know they're in that exact same situation I was in or a worse one, and they want to know what do I do?

00:17:48.460 --> 00:17:50.059
And here is what I tell them.

00:17:50.299 --> 00:18:00.299
I actually tell them not to get a lawyer because what will happen to them, and this may not be true nationwide, but this is definitely true in North Carolina where I live.

00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:15.740
If you go into a school system meeting, into an IEP or a 504 and you have your attorney, that meeting is effectively going to stop because the school district is going to tell you they're not going to have a conversation with you if you have an attorney there, unless their attorney can be there.

00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:24.539
And then getting those schedules to line up will take so long that you'll be three to four months down the road and the school year will be done.

00:18:24.860 --> 00:18:32.539
And for these little people, like I think people forget some of the time how important like first grade, second grade is.

00:18:32.620 --> 00:18:35.259
Like that's when your little person is learning how to read.

00:18:35.420 --> 00:18:43.660
So if they're not able to speak, they're not able to learn the foundational things that they need to attain reading proficiency and literacy.

00:18:43.820 --> 00:18:44.060
Sure.

00:18:44.220 --> 00:18:51.740
And so I don't want to see a parent one spend thousands of dollars on an attorney who may or may not be able to get her very far.

00:18:52.060 --> 00:18:55.180
And I also don't, and most of them can't afford it anyway.

00:18:55.420 --> 00:19:02.220
If you actually have that much money, I would rather you just circumvent the system and go pay privately for the therapy your child needs anyway.

00:19:02.460 --> 00:19:06.940
But the other thing that I don't like to see is that time that the time that gets wasted.

00:19:07.100 --> 00:19:08.779
Like our kids don't have time for this.

00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:12.060
If our kid has a need, the kid needs the need to get met.

00:19:12.220 --> 00:19:16.460
And so my community has a wonderful, we actually have two of them.

00:19:16.700 --> 00:19:26.060
We have two nonprofits that are run by retired special needs educators and special needs mothers who their children are grown now.

00:19:26.140 --> 00:19:30.060
So, like doing IEP meetings was like their job for 18 years.

00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:33.900
Those people are angels and they are great.

00:19:34.060 --> 00:19:37.580
They will go to these IEP and 504 meetings with parents.

00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:40.940
They will advocate for the child, they will meet the child.

00:19:41.180 --> 00:19:44.620
They will be able to stand up for you when you're too emotional.

00:19:44.779 --> 00:19:51.259
And they also know what to ask for, and they know when the school system's trying to do something that's really not appropriate.

00:19:51.420 --> 00:20:00.620
I think that many of them actually do better than some of the attorneys that I've worked with because I mean, special education law is also not widely taught in law school.

00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:03.019
I mean, if you get it, it's an elective.

00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:11.180
Like I never knew in law school that I should learn about special education law because I might have a special needs kid that would need that type of assistance.

00:20:11.340 --> 00:20:17.740
And so I love being able to just tell those moms, call Amazing Grace Advocacy or Mental Health America.

00:20:17.900 --> 00:20:21.500
Somebody at one of those entities is going to be able to help you and take care of you.

00:20:21.580 --> 00:20:23.500
And they're not going to cost anything.

00:20:23.740 --> 00:20:28.860
That's the best day because that's the best possible outcome, at least in my neck of the woods.

00:20:29.019 --> 00:20:31.180
So they will be providing the advocates.

00:20:31.420 --> 00:20:31.820
Correct.

00:20:32.060 --> 00:20:32.940
If you call in.

00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:35.580
So it's Amazing Grace and Mental Health.

00:20:35.900 --> 00:20:37.019
Mental America.

00:20:37.660 --> 00:20:42.380
Okay, mental health America and definitely I'll provide this in the show notes.

00:20:42.700 --> 00:20:45.820
Um so they'll provide the advocate.

00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:47.660
So you're saying go through the advocate first.

00:20:48.140 --> 00:20:48.380
Yes.

00:20:48.620 --> 00:21:02.220
And so, you know, obviously wherever a person lives, but before you go to a lawyer, I would look in your local community and just see do we have some sort of nonprofit that will help me with my IEP or my 504?

00:21:02.380 --> 00:21:04.220
Because those resources exist.

00:21:04.460 --> 00:21:06.140
They they absolutely exist.

00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:11.660
There's definitely navigators in various parts of this the country where you can get that assistance.

00:21:11.820 --> 00:21:17.019
And you know, if your community doesn't have that at all, okay, then then look at a lawyer, right?

00:21:17.100 --> 00:21:22.700
I'm not telling you not to use the lawyer ever, but if you live in a community with an advocate, that's a better path.

00:21:23.019 --> 00:21:24.779
Let's say they do get an advocate.

00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:27.820
What would be the next step then for people?

00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:37.180
I know every case is very individualized, but just using your knowledge, experience in what you do know, still being in the legal field.

00:21:37.420 --> 00:21:42.779
What would be like ways then to move the process forward?

00:21:43.100 --> 00:21:46.220
So take the advocate with you to the IEP meeting.

00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:48.299
Take them with you to the 504.

00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:51.980
Have them be prepared ahead of time for like what is the goal?

00:21:52.220 --> 00:21:57.340
Like you sit down with your 504, your IEP person, and you say, what do we need?

00:21:57.580 --> 00:22:00.940
You know, do we need this child to get ABA therapy?

00:22:01.180 --> 00:22:03.340
Do they need speech, OTPT?

00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:05.420
Is there ADHD being a problem?

00:22:05.580 --> 00:22:07.340
So they need more time on a test.

00:22:07.580 --> 00:22:09.259
Is this kid a trauma victim?

00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:12.860
And we need to figure out how to be trauma informed about their behavior.

00:22:13.100 --> 00:22:14.299
What is the goal?

00:22:14.539 --> 00:22:16.860
Figure out the goal before you walk in the door.

00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:19.580
And when you walk in the door, you ask for the goal.

00:22:19.740 --> 00:22:22.539
And then you'd be able to argue about why you need the goal.

00:22:22.700 --> 00:22:27.340
And you just kind of continue to sit there and ask for the goal.

00:22:27.580 --> 00:22:28.860
I think that's the plan.

00:22:29.019 --> 00:22:31.420
How would you respond then to a school?

00:22:31.580 --> 00:22:35.340
Let's say you go into a school and you say, okay, this is what we're dealing with.

00:22:35.500 --> 00:22:38.539
This child may be on the autism spectrum, for instance.

00:22:38.779 --> 00:22:48.539
They may need like social skills training and they may need just regular counseling with the school counselor at least once a week, if not twice.

00:22:49.340 --> 00:22:53.180
Depending on the situ on their emotional needs and s um and where they're at.

00:22:53.340 --> 00:22:56.539
And maybe they may need access to a sensory room.

00:22:56.700 --> 00:23:04.539
And perhaps, you know, and what if the school says, you know, there's only so much we can allot because of budget, or there's only so much.

00:23:04.620 --> 00:23:12.380
So, like, let's say ABA therapy and school says, well, we can't afford it.

00:23:12.620 --> 00:23:15.500
I'm so sick of hearing that.

00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:22.620
While I absolutely understand the budgetary constraints that the public school system has, I get that.

00:23:22.779 --> 00:23:33.019
That does not negate the fact that these children are legally entitled to a fair, appropriate, free, appropriate public education.

00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:34.620
They are entitled to fate.

00:23:34.940 --> 00:23:38.700
And it is the job of the public school system to figure that out.

00:23:38.860 --> 00:23:40.860
And so we can't do that.

00:23:41.019 --> 00:23:42.940
We don't have the resources to do that.

00:23:43.100 --> 00:23:45.019
That is not a viable answer.

00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:46.620
That's not gonna work.

00:23:46.779 --> 00:23:50.779
That is also not your problem as the mother of this child.

00:23:51.019 --> 00:23:56.380
Your problem or their problem is to figure out how to give you what that little person needs.

00:23:56.539 --> 00:24:04.860
And at the end of the day, the I think the thing that makes me the most frustrated about this is that again, I'm sympathetic to a lack of resources.

00:24:05.019 --> 00:24:06.299
But this is the village.

00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:08.460
You know, what matters here?

00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:12.620
What matters here is this kid, this kid getting what they need.

00:24:12.779 --> 00:24:17.180
Because if this kid gets what they need, they're going to grow up to be a more successful adult.

00:24:17.340 --> 00:24:24.539
If we don't give them what they need, they might get into a whole list of problems that then society has to deal with later.

00:24:24.700 --> 00:24:33.580
So if we're if the goal of our system is to make productive citizens, we need to give a child every possible resource in order to be successful.

00:24:33.820 --> 00:24:50.140
So that is where we either need to advocate for the government to do a better job with funding special education and the needs of special needs kids, or we need to go to our local school boards and ask, is there more money that we can allocate just for this?

00:24:50.380 --> 00:24:53.259
Is there something that can be cut just for this?

00:24:53.660 --> 00:24:57.019
What can we do for these kids?

00:24:57.259 --> 00:25:01.740
Because their problems are going to get worse if we don't just deal with them head on.

00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:11.820
Well, with the talks, though, in this political climate of cutting the Department of Education, how do you think that's going to affect special education and affect resources?

00:25:12.060 --> 00:25:17.660
I think it's going to be a disaster because I think it's going to lead to less money.

00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:24.299
I will say, and this is a very controversial topic, but I'll talk about what's going on in North Carolina right now.

00:25:24.539 --> 00:25:29.740
So our state legislature has authorized something called the opportunity scholarship.

00:25:29.900 --> 00:25:38.779
And if you have a child with an IEP, they will give you about$9,000 a year that you can use to go to private school.

00:25:38.860 --> 00:25:47.100
So you can completely shift your kid away from whatever their public school would be and use that$9,000 for private school tuition.

00:25:47.340 --> 00:25:49.820
You can also use it for homeschooling.

00:25:50.060 --> 00:26:03.580
So there are a ton of this is very controversial because obviously our public school advocates in North Carolina are saying, but that's why we don't have enough money because we didn't have enough money in the first place.

00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:09.740
And now you're taking the money that we have away and you're allowing these kids to use their money to go to private school.

00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:12.380
And this is only benefiting wealthy families.

00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:18.220
And I'm like, well, every private school is not going to be able to appropriately serve a child with autism.

00:26:18.380 --> 00:26:31.820
But there are some private schools that are going to do a really good job because they're smaller, their population size is less, and their teachers are going to be able to give an autistic child more attention than they would otherwise have.

00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:37.180
And they might be more willing to work with you and think outside the box simply because their population is lower.

00:26:37.340 --> 00:26:38.140
Not all of them.

00:26:38.380 --> 00:26:40.460
Some of them are not going to be able to do that.

00:26:40.700 --> 00:26:58.860
But this gets into where you, as mom, like I interviewed six schools before I figured out where I was sending my craniofacially different son because I didn't want him in an environment where he was getting picked on all day or people were making comments about his face because that is a distraction from learning.

00:26:59.019 --> 00:27:03.500
So some of the time you really do have to look around what are my resources?

00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:05.180
What are my choices?

00:27:05.340 --> 00:27:09.259
And I think at the end of the day, it starts at the top.

00:27:09.420 --> 00:27:21.500
When you meet a principal or a headmaster who's singing your song, like I knew the minute I met the headmaster at my kids' school, this was where he was going to go because I knew she was going to keep my kids safe.

00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:23.100
I could feel it in my body.

00:27:23.340 --> 00:27:26.380
And so there are options in some states.

00:27:26.539 --> 00:27:36.060
And, you know, I don't like the idea of gutting our public schools either, because a lot of children need those resources and a lot of families just that's what they need to do.

00:27:36.299 --> 00:27:39.980
But also, North Carolina's 48th in education right now.

00:27:40.220 --> 00:27:46.299
And I don't feel like any of us should just have to take what's available if we have another resource open to us.

00:27:46.460 --> 00:27:49.340
I mean, see what you can do, see what you can find.

00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:52.140
Every part of the state is different, every part of the country is different.

00:27:52.299 --> 00:27:55.500
So it's a lot of choices that people have to make.

00:27:55.660 --> 00:28:04.299
It seems like it's more complex than, you know, okay, we'll get a lawyer and the lawyer will advocate for us and put things in place for us if things don't go our way.

00:28:04.620 --> 00:28:05.180
Absolutely.

00:28:05.580 --> 00:28:07.019
It's a lot, it can be a lot.

00:28:07.180 --> 00:28:08.700
It can be really overwhelming.

00:28:09.019 --> 00:28:16.299
How do people even begin then to even start to wrap their arms around supporting someone going through it?

00:28:16.539 --> 00:28:20.700
I think that that is where we need to find the good parts of our village.

00:28:20.779 --> 00:28:24.060
And we have to believe that the good parts of our village exist.

00:28:25.180 --> 00:28:30.700
Um, it's kind of like I was telling you when I met my child, and I'm still really good friends with her.

00:28:30.940 --> 00:28:37.420
When I met the principal of the school my children currently attend, I was like, I can leave my kids with her.

00:28:37.580 --> 00:28:38.700
They're gonna be all right.

00:28:38.860 --> 00:28:43.740
And, you know, she's in charge and she's gonna make sure my boys are okay during the day.

00:28:43.900 --> 00:28:53.100
I've also had other friends who I, you know, after I puked in in the CVS parking lot, I called a really good friend of mine who's not an attorney.

00:28:53.259 --> 00:28:54.940
She just knows a lot about kids.

00:28:55.100 --> 00:28:57.100
She's a developmental specialist.

00:28:57.259 --> 00:29:02.299
And I called her and I was just crying, and she was like, You are a good mother.

00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:03.820
You are a really good mother.

00:29:03.980 --> 00:29:07.100
And she just kept, I just remember her saying that over and over again.

00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:08.620
You're fighting for your kid.

00:29:08.779 --> 00:29:15.580
I know you feel like you're losing, but your kid is gonna be fine because you're mom and you're gonna find a will and you're gonna find a way.

00:29:15.740 --> 00:29:19.019
And all of us need somebody to speak excellence into us.

00:29:19.180 --> 00:29:20.140
Everybody does.

00:29:20.380 --> 00:29:25.980
And so I think some of the time it's just a matter of thinking through who in my life can I call in those moments?

00:29:26.140 --> 00:29:30.220
Who's going to really be able to speak to me in a way where I can receive it?

00:29:30.299 --> 00:29:36.299
And if you don't know who that person is, they might be a good person to look for or try to make friends with.

00:29:36.539 --> 00:29:39.740
And that's also where therapy can be really helpful too.

00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:51.740
Like I'm always happy as a therapist to support a special needs parent because I, at the end of the day, I think our special needs mothers are and fathers are amazing human beings.

00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:54.060
They're absolutely amazing human beings.

00:29:54.220 --> 00:29:57.500
And the one thing that they are driven by firmly is love.

00:29:57.740 --> 00:30:02.140
You know, I've seen that, you know, with even in my family, right?

00:30:02.380 --> 00:30:18.860
When I was going through it when I was younger, you know, and what my parents went through with the school system, you know, with me and, you know, being a therapist myself, where I have talked to parents of those with special needs, they definitely are driven by a whole lot of love, determination.

00:30:19.019 --> 00:30:23.580
Because everybody at the end of the day, you know, what did they want to see their kid be?

00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:26.299
Happy, successful, and set, right?

00:30:26.539 --> 00:30:28.140
Yes, ultimately, right?

00:30:28.220 --> 00:30:30.620
That's what the goal, you know, for I think a lot of parents.

00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:37.420
Now, I'm not a parent or anything, but just knowing from having parents that, you know, that was their goal.

00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:39.740
That's what they think they they always wanted for me.

00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:45.660
And then also talking to other parents, you know, you realize that at the end of the day, we all want the same things.

00:30:45.820 --> 00:30:52.700
Everybody all wants the same things, happiness, success, and to feel good and comfortable, you know.

00:30:52.860 --> 00:31:00.620
But I was talking to a friend recently about a quote, and that quote was a mother is only as happy as her saddest child.

00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:05.100
And the therapist in me wants to say, no, no, have some boundaries.

00:31:05.340 --> 00:31:07.180
But also, that's so true.

00:31:07.340 --> 00:31:09.580
You know, I I couldn't work.

00:31:09.740 --> 00:31:13.820
And I I tell my kids principal this all the time.

00:31:14.060 --> 00:31:19.019
I couldn't go to work every day and feel comfortable and safe if I was worried about my children.

00:31:19.180 --> 00:31:26.060
You know, if I was worried that they were getting bullied or beat up or that someone was mistreating them all day, I wouldn't be able to handle it.

00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:29.420
Because you're only a mother's only as happy as her saddest child.

00:31:29.500 --> 00:31:32.220
And I no one wants to see their children be sad.

00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:35.420
You know, all of us want to see our children thrive and do well.

00:31:35.500 --> 00:31:37.420
And it's heartbreaking when they're not.

00:31:37.580 --> 00:31:45.100
But I also think on the same thing of having someone lift you up when you feel small, you need somebody to help you celebrate.

00:31:45.259 --> 00:31:53.259
You know, there is there's a mom in my community who has an autistic son who is nonverbal or well, excuse me, he's been nonverbal.

00:31:53.420 --> 00:31:59.980
He's five, and he started singing the other day, and he actually memorized like the happy birthday song.

00:32:00.140 --> 00:32:07.740
And, you know, it's a it's literally like a miracle to watch this little boy who wasn't able to communicate at all sing a song.

00:32:08.060 --> 00:32:10.299
That is huge progress.

00:32:10.700 --> 00:32:14.940
And like I'm so happy for her, and she's overjoyed, you know.

00:32:15.100 --> 00:32:18.299
And I heard someone say, well, you know, it wasn't perfect.

00:32:18.460 --> 00:32:20.060
It doesn't matter.

00:32:20.299 --> 00:32:23.740
That is a huge, huge accomplishment.

00:32:23.980 --> 00:32:35.580
And you need somebody to celebrate that with you and to be able to sit there and say, that is a win, and let us celebrate that win because it deserves to be celebrated.

00:32:35.820 --> 00:32:36.620
Absolutely.

00:32:36.860 --> 00:32:43.980
You know, and I feel like, you know what, like these things that a lot of people will just take for granted, you know what?

00:32:44.060 --> 00:32:49.420
They don't understand it until they've actually spoken to a family of someone with special needs.

00:32:49.580 --> 00:32:49.900
Yes.

00:32:50.060 --> 00:32:53.100
Because it hits so much more different for them.

00:32:53.259 --> 00:32:54.060
It sure does.

00:32:54.220 --> 00:32:55.980
Now, your book, Tumbleweeds.

00:32:56.140 --> 00:33:03.660
Now, I know we talked a lot about like the IEP and um special ed, uh, the IEP meetings, 504 meetings, advocates.

00:33:03.820 --> 00:33:07.340
But your book, what was it like for you to write this book?

00:33:07.660 --> 00:33:14.460
So one of my supports in my village is an older woman named Ann Benfield.

00:33:14.620 --> 00:33:21.500
And I love Anne because she controls all the smart start money for our early childhood education in my community.

00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:29.660
And she wrote one of the forwards for my book, and one of the sentences that she said is Paula carried this around for a really long time.

00:33:29.740 --> 00:33:32.060
And this is something she needed to get out.

00:33:32.299 --> 00:33:33.980
And that is the truth.

00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:40.220
All the stuff that I feel like I went through sat in my body for a long time and I needed to get it out.

00:33:40.460 --> 00:33:49.980
And I don't think that this book was something that I like, it's not like I wanted to give it to the world, but I literally could not give it to the world.

00:33:50.140 --> 00:33:52.700
And I don't really care what happens to it now.

00:33:52.940 --> 00:33:57.820
I don't care whether it becomes a New York Times bestseller or if America hates it.

00:33:57.980 --> 00:34:00.779
I genuinely don't care what happens to this book.

00:34:00.940 --> 00:34:03.019
I care that this book is out of me.

00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:07.500
It's literally out of my body and into something that I can see on a shelf.

00:34:07.660 --> 00:34:15.900
And I just hope that the people who read it feel hope and empowered so that my children have all turned out really, really well.

00:34:16.139 --> 00:34:26.380
And I have a lot of faith that most children can turn out really, really well if we give them love and we give them the building blocks of what they need to be successful.

00:34:26.539 --> 00:34:33.259
And so I just hope that my book makes other mothers in whatever situation they're in, feel like they're not alone.

00:34:33.500 --> 00:34:39.659
This must have also brought up a lot of memories, a lot of emotions, a lot of tears, I take it.

00:34:39.820 --> 00:34:40.219
Yep.

00:34:40.460 --> 00:34:55.019
When you were writing this and writing about the IEP and how you felt were made to feel and the work you had to do to advocate so that your son was able to get the proper services so that he could thrive.

00:34:55.179 --> 00:34:55.659
Correct.

00:34:55.900 --> 00:35:02.859
I can only imagine this is a memory that is just stamped in like a tattoo.

00:35:03.099 --> 00:35:03.739
Absolutely.

00:35:03.980 --> 00:35:04.699
Absolutely.

00:35:04.940 --> 00:35:11.579
And, you know, for better or worse, there are people who really helped me with my kids along the way.

00:35:11.739 --> 00:35:16.299
And those are people that I would give a kidney to if they needed one and I could give it.

00:35:16.379 --> 00:35:20.699
Like there are people in my life who were the angels who helped me with my kids.

00:35:20.859 --> 00:35:29.500
But there are also the people who were awful and who made me cry and who basically said, we don't care what your child's doctor said.

00:35:29.659 --> 00:35:31.419
They don't work for the school system.

00:35:31.579 --> 00:35:34.059
And those are the people that I don't have any use for.

00:35:34.219 --> 00:35:42.299
And there are special education parents all across America who know exactly what I'm talking about because they remember that person.

00:35:42.460 --> 00:35:45.099
And special needs mothers don't forget that.

00:35:45.339 --> 00:35:52.699
You won't you, as the person who says that kind of stuff to them, you won't remember it because the next day you won't think about them again.

00:35:52.859 --> 00:35:55.259
You'll go on, there'll be some other kid.

00:35:55.419 --> 00:36:12.059
But when you make a mother feel like you don't care about her kid or that her kid's not important to you, when you neglect or abuse or hurt something that we gave birth to, we will never forget you.

00:36:12.219 --> 00:36:12.619
Ever.

00:36:12.779 --> 00:36:23.339
You know, it reminds me of my mom, you know, and to this day, she still remembers when the middle school told her when I was in sixth grade that I would not make it to eighth grade.

00:36:23.659 --> 00:36:25.500
Them fighting words right there.

00:36:25.659 --> 00:36:29.259
Yeah, she will not make it to eighth grade if she gets there at all.

00:36:29.419 --> 00:36:31.819
And then she would never graduate high school.

00:36:31.899 --> 00:36:35.019
And they told my mom they wanted to send me to a special school.

00:36:35.179 --> 00:36:39.980
And to this day, sometimes my mom will still tear up about it.

00:36:40.219 --> 00:36:40.859
Yes.

00:36:41.179 --> 00:36:46.859
And um, you know, and I have to reminder, I said, mom, don't look at who's getting the last laugh now.

00:36:47.019 --> 00:36:47.819
Uh right.

00:36:47.980 --> 00:36:48.299
Right.

00:36:48.619 --> 00:36:54.460
Because of all the stuff I went right off and did, you know, they told me that I would be relegated.

00:36:54.619 --> 00:36:55.500
Well, guess what?

00:36:55.739 --> 00:36:57.819
I outtopped a lot of them.

00:36:58.059 --> 00:37:03.980
And all those people who said that I would never be anything, well, they're made to eat their words to the full.

00:37:04.460 --> 00:37:05.579
That's exactly right.

00:37:05.739 --> 00:37:11.019
And I empathize with your mom so much because that is a traumatic memory.

00:37:11.179 --> 00:37:21.099
Having somebody tell you your child's never gonna be able to go to eighth grade, that is a terrible thing to tell a parent, especially when you don't.

00:37:21.259 --> 00:37:23.819
I mean, obviously your IQ is very high.

00:37:24.219 --> 00:37:26.219
You graduated from law school.

00:37:26.379 --> 00:37:29.099
Like, you are not an unintelligent person.

00:37:29.259 --> 00:37:31.500
Like telling someone something like that.

00:37:31.739 --> 00:37:36.539
But you know, I think I read something where Calbert Einstein's mother was told the same thing.

00:37:36.699 --> 00:37:41.019
She was told that he would never be able to learn, he would never be able to do anything in school.

00:37:41.179 --> 00:37:43.659
So she just kept him home and educated him herself.

00:37:43.899 --> 00:37:47.339
And look what he went, he was a man that went out to change the world.

00:37:47.659 --> 00:37:48.219
I mean.

00:37:48.460 --> 00:37:52.299
And that's because a special needs mother will do what she has to do.

00:37:52.539 --> 00:37:58.299
And I think some of the time, like, we feel like shameful or like we're a troublemaker.

00:37:58.460 --> 00:37:59.019
You know what?

00:37:59.179 --> 00:38:01.419
You have to not care at all.

00:38:01.659 --> 00:38:04.619
Like, there is nothing more important than your kids.

00:38:04.779 --> 00:38:10.460
Like, there's literally nothing more important than the job of being and the privilege of being their parent.

00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:15.419
And nobody is ever going to make me feel bad about doing what I need to do for my son.

00:38:15.579 --> 00:38:28.059
You know, and the people who are telling you that you're a troublemaker, these are people that are uncomfortable with the fact that changes have to be made because these people got so used to the status quo.

00:38:28.139 --> 00:38:31.419
And when anything challenges the status quo, what does that do?

00:38:31.659 --> 00:38:33.179
Cause tension, right?

00:38:33.339 --> 00:38:34.699
It causes stir.

00:38:34.859 --> 00:38:40.779
But if the status quo doesn't get challenged, no changes ever happen, right?

00:38:41.019 --> 00:38:41.259
Right.

00:38:41.419 --> 00:38:44.299
Like we say, if it doesn't challenge you, it doesn't change you.

00:38:44.539 --> 00:38:58.219
So that's, you know, this is where, you know, and for people listening, you know, if you're going through this with your own kids right now, or you're going through it with your school district, you know, just remember one thing.

00:38:58.299 --> 00:39:04.059
You you aren't creating the changes that are gonna impact everyone for the better.

00:39:04.299 --> 00:39:05.019
Absolutely.

00:39:05.259 --> 00:39:20.859
And people don't like change, especially those that got comfortable with their positions in power, especially those that got comfortable with having a certain image and having a certain way things are done.

00:39:21.099 --> 00:39:24.139
They just don't people don't like the the tension.

00:39:24.379 --> 00:39:25.259
They sure don't.

00:39:25.419 --> 00:39:26.219
They don't.

00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:30.859
But at the same time, you know, I think this is a big picture question.

00:39:31.019 --> 00:39:33.259
Again, what is the most important thing?

00:39:33.500 --> 00:39:35.899
Well, the most important thing is that little person.

00:39:36.059 --> 00:39:40.379
And that little person, and I think this about every kid, not just my kids.

00:39:40.539 --> 00:39:44.219
I think every I think our children deserve the very best that we can give them.

00:39:44.379 --> 00:39:47.500
And I don't say that like pageant girl type statement.

00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:53.739
Like, I literally think that all of our children deserve the tools that they need to be able to be successful.

00:39:53.980 --> 00:39:55.659
That is how we make the world better.

00:39:55.899 --> 00:39:56.619
Absolutely.

00:39:56.859 --> 00:39:57.419
Absolutely.

00:39:57.579 --> 00:39:58.779
I feel like, you know what?

00:39:58.859 --> 00:40:00.859
It takes somebody who doesn't give up.

00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:01.659
That's right.

00:40:01.819 --> 00:40:12.940
It takes somebody who is going to be persistent, consistent, you know, have that, you know, have their corner, be on their corner the whole time, you know, and be there.

00:40:13.099 --> 00:40:18.460
And I think that's what where real change is made in this one.

00:40:18.699 --> 00:40:26.059
So, you know, do you now like you said that, you know, the the law hiring a lawyer is last step.

00:40:26.699 --> 00:40:36.219
Um, do you think you ever would like to do more special ed law stuff or legislation or legislation, yes.

00:40:36.619 --> 00:40:38.539
Special education law, no.

00:40:38.779 --> 00:40:42.859
Because I think it's the same reason I can't do family law custody.

00:40:43.019 --> 00:40:44.219
I will never sleep.

00:40:44.379 --> 00:40:45.899
I will be up at 3 a.m.

00:40:46.219 --> 00:40:51.899
and I will be furious, and I think I will relive a lot of the trauma that we've talked about today.

00:40:52.059 --> 00:40:53.980
And that's just not gonna be good for me.

00:40:54.139 --> 00:40:58.460
And I can do a lot of other things to be helpful, so I'm not going to do that.

00:40:58.699 --> 00:41:09.179
But I also want to add that to the lawyers that I see, particularly the ones who do represent special needs parents and don't just represent the district, those are some really good folks.

00:41:09.419 --> 00:41:14.219
And I love, I mean, I have had to tell a few people, all right, this isn't working.

00:41:14.379 --> 00:41:15.659
We're gonna have to lawyer up.

00:41:15.819 --> 00:41:20.379
And I I respect those lawyers who I give those referrals to.

00:41:20.460 --> 00:41:21.259
Those are good people.

00:41:21.419 --> 00:41:22.379
That's amazing.

00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:30.379
I mean, I can only imagine how they light you up in some ways inside when you see them do their work and see them go after it.

00:41:30.619 --> 00:41:38.059
Knowing what you know now, though, about special ed law, you know, I mean, I do remember some of the stuff, you know, certain cases and things.

00:41:38.219 --> 00:41:41.659
And I do remember, you know, certain statutes and provisions.

00:41:41.899 --> 00:41:46.299
Where do you see there could be room for growth in terms of legislation with it?

00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:55.259
I think it just goes back to, again, we've got to be focused on what is in the best interest of a kid and starting it as early as humanly possible.

00:41:55.419 --> 00:42:01.659
You know, the earlier we can have an early intervention, the earlier we can prevent a problem, the better.

00:42:01.899 --> 00:42:04.859
We don't spend money on things like that when we really should.

00:42:05.019 --> 00:42:10.619
And we need to really pour money into our early childhood education, into our preschoolers.

00:42:10.859 --> 00:42:18.539
I love states like Georgia that have been able to use the Georgia education lottery to ensure that every child gets pre-K for free.

00:42:18.779 --> 00:42:20.779
Pre-K in Georgia is like kindergarten.

00:42:20.859 --> 00:42:21.819
It's just free.

00:42:21.980 --> 00:42:23.899
And I love states that are able to do that.

00:42:24.059 --> 00:42:25.419
North Carolina doesn't do that.

00:42:25.579 --> 00:42:32.940
The only way you get preschool education here is if your parents pay for it or if you're indigent and you can qualify for smart start or head start.

00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:39.259
But most people in our area, there's people who struggle to be able, they want to afford a preschool education, but they just can't.

00:42:39.419 --> 00:42:42.940
And so I really think pouring funds into things like that is good.

00:42:43.099 --> 00:42:47.739
And I know, you know, politicians are then going to say, well, what do you want us to cut?

00:42:47.899 --> 00:42:48.460
I don't know.

00:42:48.619 --> 00:42:49.179
You tell me.

00:42:49.339 --> 00:42:52.379
Where do you're all they're the ones talking about waste all the time.

00:42:52.539 --> 00:42:57.899
Where are we wasting money where we could cut it and pour it back into education, into our little people?

00:42:58.139 --> 00:42:58.940
Yeah, definitely.

00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:01.980
Starting young makes all the difference, right?

00:43:02.139 --> 00:43:05.739
And having that foundation is gonna be so important.

00:43:05.980 --> 00:43:10.859
So as it stands today with your son, how have you seen him thrive in the school he's at?

00:43:11.099 --> 00:43:12.299
He's doing amazing.

00:43:12.460 --> 00:43:21.259
They let me come in when he was a second grader because people were beginning to ask about his face, and none of the children were asking about his face in a rude manner.

00:43:21.339 --> 00:43:25.259
Like they weren't being jerks, they were just curious seven-year-olds.

00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:25.739
Okay.

00:43:25.980 --> 00:43:31.179
And so the school let me come in and I read Prattly's baby book to his class.

00:43:31.259 --> 00:43:35.899
And I explained to them what Clef Palette was and how it made him different.

00:43:36.059 --> 00:43:39.899
And I told them things like, you know, he's had braces since he was three.

00:43:40.059 --> 00:43:46.699
When you guys go through needing braces in middle school, he can tell you all about what to do because he's had experience with this.

00:43:46.859 --> 00:43:51.739
If any of you ever need to have surgery, he knows what to tell you to do because he's had it.

00:43:51.899 --> 00:43:54.299
You know, so I made it into a strength.

00:43:54.460 --> 00:43:57.339
And ever since then, it's just something his classmates know.

00:43:57.500 --> 00:44:04.059
And because he's in a small school, he's pretty much been with the same 22 children since he was in kindergarten.

00:44:04.219 --> 00:44:06.539
His school has very little turnover.

00:44:06.699 --> 00:44:10.619
So it's not like every year he's getting introduced to a new class of kids.

00:44:11.019 --> 00:44:18.940
So I think the environment that he's in and the fact that I did get him early intervention, I did get him that speech therapy by God.

00:44:19.099 --> 00:44:20.139
I got it for him.

00:44:20.379 --> 00:44:28.139
The fact that he got all of that has made his literacy, it's improved his literacy, but it's made his speaking ability normal.

00:44:28.299 --> 00:44:36.460
And so he's avoiding a lot of the problems that a lot of children with cleft palate have because I threw a fit and got him his speech therapy.

00:44:36.619 --> 00:44:39.419
So, and I'm glad to hear that he's doing amazing.

00:44:39.579 --> 00:44:42.219
I'm glad to hear that, you know, he's thriving where he's at.

00:44:42.379 --> 00:44:43.419
Things have gotten better.

00:44:43.579 --> 00:44:48.699
He's gotten some speech therapy, he's able to connect with his classmates.

00:44:49.259 --> 00:44:53.419
They understand him and they understand his strengths.

00:44:53.659 --> 00:44:58.699
And you know, he has supportive teachers, it seems, and a supportive environment.

00:44:58.940 --> 00:45:02.940
Everything that is essential for a student to thrive.

00:45:03.179 --> 00:45:05.739
Well, Paula, I want to thank you so much for being here.

00:45:05.899 --> 00:45:08.139
Where can people get a hold of you?

00:45:08.299 --> 00:45:12.299
Like where can people find you if they want to reach out to you and ask you questions?

00:45:12.460 --> 00:45:15.419
And also, can you tell us where we can find your book?

00:45:15.739 --> 00:45:20.059
So my book is going to be available on Amazon.com.

00:45:20.299 --> 00:45:20.539
Okay.

00:45:20.779 --> 00:45:27.419
So you should be able to just search under my name, Paula J Yoast, or for the book Tumbleweeds, and hopefully it will come right up.

00:45:27.579 --> 00:45:34.379
Also, you can find me on Instagram or Facebook at Paula Joast Author, and you can send me a private message there.

00:45:34.619 --> 00:45:34.940
Okay.

00:45:35.339 --> 00:45:37.819
Thank you very much, Paula, for being here.

00:45:38.059 --> 00:45:40.539
And this wraps today's episode.

00:45:40.779 --> 00:45:44.139
Remember to like, subscribe, and share with your family and friends.

00:45:44.299 --> 00:45:44.779
Thank you.

00:45:44.940 --> 00:45:45.500
Thank you.