From Upwork Top 1% to Scaling $100M Businesses: Justin Abrams on Smart Growth Without Paid Ads

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my favorite candy in the world. Hi, everyone.

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We're live this time with Justin Abrams, who

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is bold, brave, and handsome. And he has hair.

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He's not bald. So he's only two B's. He's a double

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B, not a triple B. But anyways, Justin, welcome

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to Adrian Barker Speaks. No prep needed, which

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means I have no clue who you are. But I do know

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enough about you that you're a business coach.

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So can you give us your elevator pitch? Yeah,

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thanks for having me. So this is Yeah, so I run

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a consulting firm. I really try and I guess my

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elevator pitch is always that things are getting

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harder in sales. Google, Facebook, all of these

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ad campaigns are extremely hard. So I try to

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take a more modern and organic approach to growing

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revenue. And then once that revenue is improving,

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Then we really like the way I really structure

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my business is about as a traditional consulting

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firm. So, you know, how do we improve? Yes. Okay.

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Obviously sales are a hard thing, but then how

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can we improve the operations? How can we use

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financials to leverage your business and grow

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and grow and grow it? So trying to think of beyond

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that, like traditional marketing agency, just

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like, you know, increase sales. That's all the

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things that I care about. It's like, how can

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we grow with you and how can we kind of fulfill

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your journey as an entrepreneur and as a business

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owner. I like that. So tell me about your own.

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First of all, where are you dialing in from?

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I am in Boston, Massachusetts. Boston. The best

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thing about Boston is Cindy Stumpo. How do you

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know Cindy Stumpo? So I know, I don't know no

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Sydney Stumpo, but I know Sydney Stubborn have

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had the pleasure and the honor of talking to

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her because she loves ChatterSocial, which is

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an amazing marketing tool. It's a social audio

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visual app. And Grant Cardone loves. it to chatter

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social. So they're both on and I love it too.

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I deliver the, I do the debate, the news, true

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crime with Joseph Tuesdays and Thursdays live

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on chatter social. And then it becomes a podcast.

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And then we do, I do the sunshine scoop for debate,

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the news with Jonathan Bing. And that's like

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my absolute favorite, favorite, favorite thing

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to do in the world. And it's a room full of people

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with their voices. They can go on camera for

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debate the news. I don't talk about politics,

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but people will talk politics. Cindy's amazing.

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Cindy has been doing these mastermind rooms that

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are unbelievable. So I have an invite if you

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would like an invite. And it's just an amazing

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app. It's just all on your. Wow. So Cindy is

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literally in the town that I'm in. We're probably

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a stone's throw. If anyone doesn't really know

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Cindy, like her building, like she's a builder,

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builder, like a master builder. You can see her

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properties just about all throughout this area.

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I mean, it really is, I mean, it's actually very,

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very impressive. So, and my family, my wife's

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family is from this area and they know this dumpo's

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really well. So that's crazy. Oh, it's so lovely.

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Yeah, you'll have to come on the app. If you

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like it, your wife may like it too. It's just

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really fun. Have you ever been on Clubhouse?

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Yeah, like years and years ago, but yes. Okay,

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that's great. So Nelson Apega, who is the entrepreneur,

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and I love this story because this is really

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a real entrepreneur, right? He noticed that clubhouse,

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you couldn't see people, there was so much limitations

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on it, and it wasn't an easy platform. He would

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do Million Marathon, and Jonathan would debate

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the news with thousands and thousands of people,

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you know, on, and also on X. But now, he knew,

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well, these are the things I would want as a

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social audio user and talent, and so he created

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it. So actually it's coming, it's public beta

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right now. So if you want the invite and then

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it's going to be the V2 is coming out and the

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ability to monetize, have conversations like

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this, stream it right out, but have the people

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in the audience and not chatting where they can

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actually speak and say, Justin, I have a question

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for you. So it's amazing. So definitely we'll

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have to send it to you later. You'll love it.

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And if you do see Cindy, tell her it's Adriana.

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I think she calls me Adriana or something or

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some funny name. Yeah, absolutely. That's classic.

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She is beautiful. I love it. So anyway, so welcome.

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So you're in Boston. I was born in Connecticut.

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Wow. OK, amazing. And do you have children? No

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children. We just got married last year. So we

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just came back from London celebrating our one

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year anniversary, my wife and I. Oh, how fun.

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So my parents left a legacy behind in Connecticut.

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So it is, if you're a kid at heart, it's 80 ,000

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toys in the toy museum, Barker Museum in Cheshire,

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Connecticut. So let me know if you're ever in

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Cheshire, Connecticut. But in the meantime, tell

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us about you. I want to hear about you. OK, so

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I worked in biotech for five years. did that

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right actually right after the pandemic or like

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around 2020. I really just was I like business

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like I like growing businesses. It's a it's just

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a personal thing. I like thinking about businesses.

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I like thinking about problems and I don't really

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think about the business themselves. It's more

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about how do I just problem solve? And business

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is kind of like a video game in reality, right,

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on steroids. And so during COVID, that was the

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biggest concern is how do all of these businesses

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continue to get sales? How do you go from having

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sales every month at X hundreds of thousands

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of dollars to now like 90 % or more drop? And

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so a lot of people were just reaching out to

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me organically. At this time, I hadn't even started

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my own business. And then after a bit of time,

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so I went on Upwork, I was like, you know, let

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me figure out a way to get paid for this. Took

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off really well. I mean, it was at the right

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time at the right place. And I just, you know,

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give my honest advice. And I think I'm like still

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the number one consultant on Upwork, maybe number

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two. Yeah. And it's still like a good passive

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income stream of like people coming to me organically.

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But that kind of changed my mindset of like starting

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my own business versus just working W2. And so

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I did that for probably four or five months before

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I kind of tested everything out. And then I got,

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you know, the confidence to start my own business

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and kind of bring this like professional consulting

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to small businesses. I love that. I'm on Upwork.

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I hit my 100 ,000 mark, so I was pretty proud

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of that. Right? Right? And top rated, not top

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rated plus because one of my clients after three

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years took me off. And so I'm on part time, very

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part time hours on his payroll. And then I run

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my business. So I know what you're saying. Upwork

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is if I'm like, okay, I need a little more money.

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I need a client. I'll go on and I'll grab a business

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that way. So it does work. Let's go have fun.

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Let's look at your website. Is that cool? Yeah,

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absolutely enjoying doing this, and it's a little

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unique, but that is what we're about. And OK,

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so I like this. I was already on there. So pop

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up form, fill it out to get your business playbook

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strategy. So tell me about your experience. What

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does that look like? Yeah, like so I would say

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majority of our customers are looking for. See,

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there's some bugs in there. We just made like,

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wait, where did I? Wait, average time? What does

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that mean? No, no, no. You're making me very

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upset because I get to talk to my developers

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because we were literally making some changes

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today that I'm glad this is a good audit that

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I have to fix. Yeah, I mean, my experience is

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really in just small businesses in general, like

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very traditional standard businesses, like not

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the biotechs of the world, not anything super

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fancy, a lot of like gyms, med spas, dentists,

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HVAC, what else, like just dog walkers all over

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the place type of businesses and just the standard

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processes to help them grow. And you can see

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some of the in our examples, like some of the

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different clients, which are, you know, all over

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the place, like I've worked with Pfizer, Sony,

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Bayer, Merck, multi billion dollar businesses

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down to mom and pop shops. So Um, you know, I've

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had, I think over three, it's probably over like

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350 to 400 at this point, different clients,

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um, of all walks of life. Wow. Congratulations.

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That's huge. That's huge. Wait. So the service

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area, are these just, are these cities that you're

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actually located in or just, you know, we're

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just, we're just trying to like cover as many

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search volume as we can. Um, so we've just picked

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the largest areas, but I would say Majority of

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my clients are just all over the place. I don't

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even have a ton of clients in Boston, although

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we're expanding more and more. We're a pretty

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location agnostic. OK, that makes sense. I have

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a business, but I don't have a business plan.

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I don't need a business plan, right? Oh, it's

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so funny. I was with Score for eight years. So

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I used to do business plans, volunteer. Sure,

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I can't believe how many people. I have a business

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plan. Oh, I would love to look at your business

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plan. Oh, the problem is it's up here. Oh, you've

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got to put it on paper. And nowadays, how do

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you work without a business plan and a SWOT analysis

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before you start? So how do you do it? So how

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does that work for you when you're doing a business

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plan? Do you use a template? Do you just kind

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of walk them through it? Do you answer the questions

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with them? Yeah, so I've noticed the the it's

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kind of changed it used to be in your head and

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now it's like I put it on chat GPT and I'm like

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Here's it. I want a business plan for a restaurant

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in Boston and then like that's their business

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plan I'm like that is not gonna help you like

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no, okay I'm not like my my favorite thing is

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the business plan because I think it it does

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limit you a bit with that said I like to work

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to the end goal and just think about what is

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it that you really want? If you're brand new

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to business, I still think you should just figure

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it out as it goes and figure out what your life

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can even do. I don't want you, if we're going

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to start working out, I don't want you to be

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like, oh, I'm going to be the strongest person

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in the entire world and win every gold medal.

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I want you to just show up every day. Show up.

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If you can show up for two weeks straight in

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the gym, then we can start to work on your long

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-term plans. For me, a business plan is a very

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paralysis analysis. It's better to just start.

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If you're already a business that's been doing

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it and you're not really seeing the success or

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you're plateauing, that's where I feel like the

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business plan is really helpful. I tend to say

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to the people, what is it that you want out of

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this? If you're 65 years old, your long -term

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vision of your business, it might be to sell

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your business in a year or two, and you're going

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to look to retire. If you're 30, I have a client

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who has two landscaping businesses. I think he's

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about 35. We're thinking almost like a financial

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advisor thinks about their 401k. How much do

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you want to retire? What does your nest egg need

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to be? How many people do you want to employ?

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Are you focused on just Massachusetts, or do

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you want to expand out of there? All of these

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questions are really important. You don't need

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to know exactly what they're going to be. But

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if you're, let's just say, just going as it is

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currently, the long -term future is not going

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to get solved. That kind of like, we're all working

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this entrepreneurial job to end up better than

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a W -2. And a W -2 has a lot of perks, like 401k,

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normal salary every week. All of these things

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are things that we need to be better at. So that's

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why when I think about a business plan, it's

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very much focused on the person and what their

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journey wants to be and how that relates to their

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family and what they need and what's their nest

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egg. And then we can get into the specifics of

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how much they want to spend on budget and whatnot.

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I like that. I also think that not only... Like

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you should, like what we taught business, it's

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asking that first question is what is your exit

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plan? Like that has to be first, right? And then

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also I love using the lean canvas method. Is

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that something that you do too? Definitely. Definitely.

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And a lot of clients will come to me with that

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lean canvas already like partially filled out

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and just getting an idea of like what they actually

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want. And that's great. Like I love using a templates,

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but I don't want to just like pigeonhole them

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into like, this is the one way we need to think.

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Like I'd rather just say, what do you want to

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do in of your 30 years, where do you want to

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be? We'll work you towards that over time and

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not to constraints. You know, it's so funny because,

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you know, you use the word, well, the business

00:13:23.710 --> 00:13:25.730
plan is going to be fluid. It's going to change.

00:13:25.889 --> 00:13:28.230
It's going to revolve. But that I noticed almost

00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:30.710
does cause a little pair of paralysis, like,

00:13:30.830 --> 00:13:32.230
wait, I'm going to create something and it's

00:13:32.230 --> 00:13:34.110
going to change. But I think once that's why

00:13:34.110 --> 00:13:37.610
I would say the SWAT to me is probably the most

00:13:37.610 --> 00:13:40.679
important. part of these plans because people

00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:43.700
don't think what it could look like. Like a lot

00:13:43.700 --> 00:13:46.500
of companies didn't think, well, what if COVID

00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:48.639
happened? What if we had a huge medical? What

00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:50.820
if we all shut down, right? But that would be

00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:53.299
part of your swat. Like I'm that person that

00:13:53.299 --> 00:13:55.019
would kind of think about that. All right, let's

00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:56.960
have a little more fun. Let's go here. So we're

00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:59.919
on your site. What does A -R -Y -O stand for?

00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:04.669
Oh, that's a great question. So A -R -Y -O is

00:14:04.669 --> 00:14:07.730
a porkmanto, like a combination of words, just

00:14:07.730 --> 00:14:11.649
meaning in Japanese it means safe travels. So

00:14:11.649 --> 00:14:13.950
that was the original plan was to like just make

00:14:13.950 --> 00:14:17.490
life, like just make it a safe travel of working

00:14:17.490 --> 00:14:21.309
with, you know, businesses. I love that. We recognize

00:14:21.309 --> 00:14:24.350
that a robust business plan is fundamental. Okay,

00:14:24.690 --> 00:14:26.289
love, love, love that. Let's go to the top. Let's

00:14:26.289 --> 00:14:30.019
go to services. And, oh, there we go, the problem,

00:14:30.220 --> 00:14:32.879
sorry, sorry, sorry. That's why you got to audit,

00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:34.480
right? But you were working on it, so they're

00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:36.320
probably fixing it right now. Oh, oh, shoot,

00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:39.440
okay. I would say scroll down. Maybe it's just

00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:46.340
a stop. Okay, I like that. So you have some of

00:14:46.340 --> 00:14:51.299
the people that you've worked with. Yep. I like

00:14:51.299 --> 00:14:53.500
it. I can see that, professional and personable.

00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:57.259
I love that. Look at these reviews, guys. Nice.

00:14:57.939 --> 00:15:01.200
Oh, Riggs, good for you. I had him, a lovely

00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.700
man. I had him on a podcast four years ago with

00:15:03.700 --> 00:15:05.940
a lovely woman. They almost seemed attracted

00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:09.259
to each other. And she ended up passing away

00:15:09.259 --> 00:15:12.500
in a horrible car accident. When he was up visiting

00:15:12.500 --> 00:15:14.860
her mom, she got picked up at Bradley Airport.

00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:18.480
And on her way, she got killed right outside

00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:22.259
of Southbridge Mass. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:24.840
I always thought that I always when it pops up,

00:15:24.860 --> 00:15:28.950
I'm like, it was such an interesting Very interesting.

00:15:29.370 --> 00:15:31.889
Actually, I made her a guest host without even

00:15:31.889 --> 00:15:33.850
thinking what I was doing, which is what a lot

00:15:33.850 --> 00:15:36.289
of people do now. You got some great people here.

00:15:36.309 --> 00:15:39.230
Look at this. I love it. Okay, let's go. You

00:15:39.230 --> 00:15:41.029
guys, look what we're doing. We are literally,

00:15:41.049 --> 00:15:43.529
I'm doing an audit, but not really. I just wanted

00:15:43.529 --> 00:15:46.049
to see what the website is like. You could book

00:15:46.049 --> 00:15:49.769
now. Oh, so you could book you for, I'm thinking

00:15:49.769 --> 00:15:52.509
podcast, but you could book you to set up an

00:15:52.509 --> 00:15:56.309
appointment. Nice. This pop -up is interesting

00:15:56.309 --> 00:15:59.129
too. I'm a big fan of the pop -up, even though

00:15:59.129 --> 00:16:02.450
it's a little annoying and the tech side of it

00:16:02.450 --> 00:16:07.809
has been concerning, I think it does help. Okay,

00:16:08.029 --> 00:16:10.970
so it's definitely annoying, but you know what?

00:16:11.470 --> 00:16:16.350
This is beautiful. This is something that most

00:16:16.350 --> 00:16:21.070
people don't do. Right here, 508 -545 -7447.

00:16:21.470 --> 00:16:26.740
Why is it that... companies, people, podcast,

00:16:26.740 --> 00:16:30.659
hosts, coaches, consultants are so afraid to

00:16:30.659 --> 00:16:33.539
give their cell phone number out. How, you know,

00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:35.240
you want to reach someone. It's in your head

00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:37.500
now. I'm looking for blah, blah, blah. Or I saw

00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:40.059
Justin and I want to reach him. I got to email

00:16:40.059 --> 00:16:42.419
him. I'm not even sure. Like you got your phone

00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:45.419
number there, dude. I know I sound cool when

00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:48.419
I said that, bruh. No, but that's really the

00:16:48.419 --> 00:16:50.299
way that I, you know, I have young kids. That's

00:16:50.299 --> 00:16:52.919
really the way to do it, right? Have your phone

00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.649
number. People can call me any day of the week.

00:16:56.330 --> 00:16:58.950
You have no idea how many people call me and

00:16:58.950 --> 00:17:00.889
they're like, am I in the right place? Is this

00:17:00.889 --> 00:17:05.230
the right person? Or they get thrown some AI

00:17:05.230 --> 00:17:07.750
thing. It's like dial, it's like, no, just give

00:17:07.750 --> 00:17:11.609
us a call. We'll game plan this all out and jump

00:17:11.609 --> 00:17:13.890
on an actual call, but just call me physically.

00:17:14.069 --> 00:17:18.309
It's totally fine. I just, I, that is such a

00:17:18.309 --> 00:17:21.069
big deal and people are not familiar with it.

00:17:21.269 --> 00:17:23.529
And the younger generation, they don't even know

00:17:23.529 --> 00:17:25.190
what a phone is because they think it's just

00:17:25.190 --> 00:17:28.410
a texting machine. But I love that you, you seem

00:17:28.410 --> 00:17:29.930
a little young, so I'm going to say, whatever,

00:17:30.049 --> 00:17:31.809
it doesn't matter your age, but I love that you're

00:17:31.809 --> 00:17:33.730
offering your phone number. Do you advise your

00:17:33.730 --> 00:17:35.849
clients too, if it makes sense, if they're going

00:17:35.849 --> 00:17:37.730
to be taking calls to have their phone number

00:17:37.730 --> 00:17:42.730
clear on their social media and on, you know,

00:17:42.829 --> 00:17:45.900
LinkedIn and their website? Oh, yeah. I mean,

00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:49.180
I like to just hit them where the audience really

00:17:49.180 --> 00:17:51.819
matters. Like that pop -up, you might find it

00:17:51.819 --> 00:17:54.279
annoying and not use it, but younger people really

00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:56.660
like to use it, right? It's like, if you're under

00:17:56.660 --> 00:17:58.920
30, I feel like you don't ever want to call.

00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.000
I'm 33. So I like to call, but I'm very old school

00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.680
in that way. And then if you're like, maybe you

00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:09.259
might want to do a pop -up, so you're maybe in

00:18:09.259 --> 00:18:12.440
between the 30s and 40s range. But that's, again,

00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:15.190
like, just talk to someone directly. If you're

00:18:15.190 --> 00:18:18.670
over 50, I feel like you just prefer to call

00:18:18.670 --> 00:18:23.430
45 to above. I think just call and that's fine.

00:18:23.529 --> 00:18:25.529
Like that's, that's who my target audience is.

00:18:25.529 --> 00:18:27.670
Anyways, people that own businesses are usually

00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:30.869
a bit older. So wait, so when someone fills out

00:18:30.869 --> 00:18:34.210
your like AI bot or AI age, what, what, um, is

00:18:34.210 --> 00:18:36.309
it going to you? Is it going to someone on your

00:18:36.309 --> 00:18:41.309
team? So that chatbot, that chatbot, uh, it will

00:18:41.309 --> 00:18:43.509
ask for your text. And it will start texting

00:18:43.509 --> 00:18:46.150
you directly and getting you on, you know, if

00:18:46.150 --> 00:18:47.890
it's something basic, they might just answer

00:18:47.890 --> 00:18:49.789
it, but it will get you to talk to me like I

00:18:49.789 --> 00:18:52.490
can take over immediately and start texting you.

00:18:52.829 --> 00:18:55.049
And, you know, so it works really well. It's

00:18:55.049 --> 00:18:56.910
for certain industries. It works even better.

00:18:57.490 --> 00:18:59.650
But you'd be surprised how many like people just

00:18:59.650 --> 00:19:02.230
don't want to talk to a human. Hey, guys, if

00:19:02.230 --> 00:19:04.109
you're lonely and you need someone to talk to,

00:19:04.269 --> 00:19:07.089
just kidding around. All right. Let's have a

00:19:07.089 --> 00:19:11.970
little fun. Let's drop some golden nuggets on.

00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:14.839
the people listening and those that will listen.

00:19:15.940 --> 00:19:18.640
So we know what you do. You're a business consultant.

00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:21.519
What kind of, you do one and I'll do one. We'll

00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.900
go back and forth. So you start, what's the piece

00:19:23.900 --> 00:19:26.000
of advice you want to give to someone as they're

00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.180
running their business? Like the generic overall.

00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:33.519
All right. The big one I would say is everything

00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:35.920
that you're, like all of your leads that you're

00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:39.380
getting, if you're spending on Meta and Google,

00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:43.339
that cost has at least doubled in the last two

00:19:43.339 --> 00:19:47.259
years. And so you need to get realistic. Okay,

00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:49.700
you're assuming that it's going to stay where

00:19:49.700 --> 00:19:52.339
it's at. But even if you just look historically,

00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:55.420
it's probably gone up three or four X. So if

00:19:55.420 --> 00:19:58.279
you're worried about, let's just say, tariffs,

00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:03.019
like your DTC, ecommerce brands, tariffs right

00:20:03.019 --> 00:20:06.339
now may be affecting you 30 or 40 or 50%, for

00:20:06.339 --> 00:20:09.109
one part. Whereas your marketing spend is going

00:20:09.109 --> 00:20:11.230
to quadruple. You're not even thinking about

00:20:11.230 --> 00:20:13.750
that. That's not even part of your thinking.

00:20:14.450 --> 00:20:17.690
So really, really try and get more organic leads

00:20:17.690 --> 00:20:21.970
and dial that in and spend less on the Facebooks

00:20:21.970 --> 00:20:26.109
and the Metas and the Googles. I want to add

00:20:26.109 --> 00:20:28.309
to that. Don't do it yourself if you don't know

00:20:28.309 --> 00:20:29.890
what you're doing, because you might as well.

00:20:29.890 --> 00:20:31.930
If you're doing that, send me your money or flush

00:20:31.930 --> 00:20:33.349
it down the toilet. Either way, that's where

00:20:33.349 --> 00:20:35.490
it's going. You need experts that really know

00:20:35.490 --> 00:20:38.420
what they're doing. Definitely. Right, because

00:20:38.420 --> 00:20:40.880
that's what people think. I'll go on ChatGPT

00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.019
and YouTube, and I'll find out how to do a Google

00:20:43.019 --> 00:20:46.000
ad. And no, that doesn't work. Oh, the dog is,

00:20:46.019 --> 00:20:48.839
hold on, sorry. Hold on, let me just mute myself.

00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:59.799
Let's do the next one. OK. OK, next one for you.

00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:05.500
Oh, do you want me to ask you one? Oh, no, give

00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:11.799
another one. OK, advice on a business. OK, I

00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.099
would say another one that's really misunderstood.

00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:17.420
So I think 90 % of my clients are totally OK

00:21:17.420 --> 00:21:20.619
with figuring out marketing or figuring out organic

00:21:20.619 --> 00:21:23.339
leads, or they run Instagram or whatever. Very

00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:25.339
few people, if you're running a business, have

00:21:25.339 --> 00:21:27.640
ever just considered buying another competitor

00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.950
in the area. And I would say like, That's probably

00:21:30.950 --> 00:21:34.349
your fastest way to grow, honestly. If you're,

00:21:34.349 --> 00:21:36.690
let's just say, a landscaper, because I have

00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:41.190
some landscaping clients, we can organically

00:21:41.190 --> 00:21:46.250
get them. If marketing is about 5 % of your total

00:21:46.250 --> 00:21:49.660
revenue, maybe you can 3x that. So, you know,

00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.299
a great LTV over CAC is 3x. So, okay, 15 % of

00:21:53.299 --> 00:21:57.019
your revenue is coming from marketing, but we're

00:21:57.019 --> 00:21:59.059
never gonna get that to be 50%. Like you're never

00:21:59.059 --> 00:22:03.640
gonna get a 10x. So, you can buy a local landscaper

00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:07.039
that maybe is 65 and ready to retire, or maybe

00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:08.880
it's September and it's in Massachusetts and

00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:11.099
it's, they just had a rough year and they're

00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:13.299
tired and they're exhausted and it's super physical.

00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:16.279
And you can come in and give them a lifeline.

00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:20.619
buy them out and two or three X your revenue

00:22:20.619 --> 00:22:23.839
like really, really quickly. Like why would you,

00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:26.440
why would you kill yourself doing more marketing

00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:29.380
when you have contracts that are, you can just

00:22:29.380 --> 00:22:33.079
buy for like cost. Um, so that's, that's another

00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:36.079
advice that I would say everyone understands.

00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:37.859
Okay. You can figure out marketing, you can buy

00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:39.440
a hire, but like very few people are like, Oh,

00:22:39.460 --> 00:22:42.980
I'll just buy a competitor. I love that. I love

00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:44.759
that. Love, love, love. That's a great golden

00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.390
nugget. bomb, actually, because a lot of people

00:22:47.390 --> 00:22:50.549
are like, oh, I think I will buy a franchise.

00:22:50.549 --> 00:22:53.910
And then that way it's all in a box. Do you have

00:22:53.910 --> 00:22:56.410
you had any clients that have asked you about

00:22:56.410 --> 00:22:58.990
purchasing a franchise and what that would look

00:22:58.990 --> 00:23:02.769
like? Yeah. So I've worked with franchise owners

00:23:02.769 --> 00:23:05.490
and I've helped them kind of on the transaction

00:23:05.490 --> 00:23:09.089
side as well. I don't I don't have anything negative

00:23:09.089 --> 00:23:11.190
to say about franchises. I think it is like just

00:23:11.190 --> 00:23:13.799
dependent on. who the franchisee, the company

00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:17.180
is. But one thing I'd say is they do help on

00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:19.819
the education side. They help you out. If you're

00:23:19.819 --> 00:23:21.599
in an area that you just don't really know anything

00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:24.599
about and you want to learn, that is a good way.

00:23:24.859 --> 00:23:28.140
On the flip side, they take a fee. And if you're

00:23:28.140 --> 00:23:31.579
like, I don't want to necessarily pay 10 % to

00:23:31.579 --> 00:23:36.089
15 % every year, I would say, Start on your own

00:23:36.089 --> 00:23:38.890
or try and just buy a small mom -and -pop and

00:23:38.890 --> 00:23:41.849
maybe not super competitive, you know franchisee

00:23:41.849 --> 00:23:45.549
areas But yeah, I mean I definitely have found

00:23:45.549 --> 00:23:48.569
franchises can be good and bad and just just

00:23:48.569 --> 00:23:52.670
always speak with someone like I my my soon -to

00:23:52.670 --> 00:23:55.089
-be brother -in -law was considering, you know

00:23:55.089 --> 00:23:57.150
buying into a franchise and I said just speak

00:23:57.150 --> 00:23:59.250
to a couple of the franchisee owners are they

00:23:59.250 --> 00:24:01.730
happy are they not like you don't have to go

00:24:01.730 --> 00:24:05.009
crazy and spend tons of money and analysis just

00:24:05.009 --> 00:24:08.309
like literally just talk to them. I love that

00:24:08.309 --> 00:24:11.210
my parents were great entrepreneurs and my dad

00:24:11.210 --> 00:24:14.150
taught me when you know so it's score if I had

00:24:14.150 --> 00:24:16.710
someone that said well I'm looking to get a retail

00:24:16.710 --> 00:24:20.089
spot and buy it my I would give my dad's advice

00:24:20.089 --> 00:24:22.950
which was always go to talk to the other stores

00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:26.720
drive like almost all day, hit him up in the

00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:29.940
morning rush hour, the afternoon dead time, the

00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:32.940
afternoon rush hour, who's taking out the garbage,

00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:35.299
go at nighttime when it's pitch dark, are there

00:24:35.299 --> 00:24:38.980
lights on? Like get a full look at everything.

00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:42.339
And especially, he said, ask. Sometimes my dad

00:24:42.339 --> 00:24:45.559
would just sit if it was like in a shopping area

00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:48.660
or even a, because we have Barker Animation Art

00:24:48.660 --> 00:24:51.569
Gallery, Art Gallery, so. When he was like scoping,

00:24:51.569 --> 00:24:54.009
I got a chance to see in South Florida. It was

00:24:54.009 --> 00:24:55.970
like, OK, what does that really look like? Right.

00:24:56.130 --> 00:24:58.369
My dad would just say, OK, drop me. Let's sit

00:24:58.369 --> 00:25:00.690
here and see, are people walking around with

00:25:00.690 --> 00:25:02.569
bags? What are their bags like? What are they

00:25:02.569 --> 00:25:05.009
shopping for? Such a brilliant man my father

00:25:05.009 --> 00:25:08.349
is. He's pretty amazing. The business he started

00:25:08.349 --> 00:25:11.029
75 years ago is still going strong, run by my

00:25:11.029 --> 00:25:14.690
brother. So yeah. So he's really, really an amazing

00:25:14.690 --> 00:25:17.029
dad, my mom and dad. So they taught me that.

00:25:17.150 --> 00:25:20.339
But you agree with that advice? Totally. Also,

00:25:20.420 --> 00:25:24.900
in the same way, if you don't own a franchise,

00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:27.359
you just want to learn about the industry itself.

00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:31.039
Go talk to someone who is retiring or selling

00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:33.200
their business. Even if you don't want to buy

00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.880
that business, just say, why are you selling

00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:37.980
it? Obviously, I get you're retiring, but how

00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:40.839
has the industry changed? Literally every single

00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:43.859
industry has changed drastically. It doesn't

00:25:43.859 --> 00:25:48.869
need to be in software or AI. wholesalers of

00:25:48.869 --> 00:25:52.710
doors, or it's wood producers, or it's landscapers.

00:25:53.150 --> 00:25:55.789
How has things changed? Has politics affected,

00:25:55.869 --> 00:25:58.490
has regulation affected it? I mean, you can look

00:25:58.490 --> 00:26:00.569
at, has the business environment, are customers

00:26:00.569 --> 00:26:03.950
still paying top price? No business is great,

00:26:04.210 --> 00:26:07.390
perfect, right? So just ask, just always try

00:26:07.390 --> 00:26:10.309
and get information that you can't find online,

00:26:10.509 --> 00:26:13.230
because online stuff is like... It's only as

00:26:13.230 --> 00:26:14.470
good as you're going to find. Like you really

00:26:14.470 --> 00:26:16.730
want to hear currently what people are thinking.

00:26:17.930 --> 00:26:20.670
You know, by the way, there's a score is a mentor,

00:26:20.849 --> 00:26:22.930
not a coach. They don't do any of the work. They

00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:26.269
don't. They don't really. They're very different

00:26:26.269 --> 00:26:28.150
from a business consultant and what you would

00:26:28.150 --> 00:26:30.650
do. So it may make sense for you to see, you

00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:33.380
know. who is in the industry that is just a mentor.

00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:34.619
They wouldn't take the business. They're not

00:26:34.619 --> 00:26:36.880
even allowed to take the business away, but they

00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.480
could act as a subject matter expert. When you

00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:42.079
are a score mentor, you cannot do business with

00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.059
the person that you're doing. So maybe good for

00:26:44.059 --> 00:26:45.900
you to have. Like sometimes if someone said,

00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.079
well, I want to do a manufacturing plant. There

00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:50.039
may be someone that actually has been there for

00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.559
40 years and can give some help and guidance

00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:55.859
without money, but still. So just a thought on

00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:58.740
that one. I've never said that before. My favorite

00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:02.319
one. is, I say this at most podcasts, stop telling

00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:04.299
people you're busy if you're a business owner.

00:27:04.660 --> 00:27:07.940
What a deal breaker. And one more, because this

00:27:07.940 --> 00:27:12.480
is just happening on Chatter. Your brand is your

00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:15.960
personality. If you are someone that has a business

00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:19.500
and you like to go on these stages and insult

00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:22.660
and talk and yell and scream and be just plain

00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:27.220
nasty. good luck in your business, because you

00:27:27.220 --> 00:27:29.940
know what? It's not cute. It's really like your

00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:31.680
personality is the one. Sometimes when I hear

00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:35.579
someone, I'm like, how crazy are they? And Cindy,

00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:37.160
if Cindy was listening, she knows what I'm talking

00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:40.359
about. Sometimes a few girls would, young girls

00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:42.920
would argue with Cindy and I'm like, oh my God,

00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:45.599
you have no clue who this woman is, how smart

00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.059
she is. I love Cindy because she reminds me of

00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:51.220
my mom. My mom was just like as beautiful as

00:27:51.220 --> 00:27:54.779
Cindy and as brilliant as Cindy and Imagine having

00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:57.460
someone in their early 30s Like we're trying

00:27:57.460 --> 00:28:00.480
to one -up you when you're Cindy stumble like

00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.619
you're we don't put our pants on it the same

00:28:02.619 --> 00:28:05.240
way I'm like no not really Cindy has a whole

00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:07.099
different way of putting out her pants Because

00:28:07.099 --> 00:28:09.619
what she does is just I have a massive amount

00:28:09.619 --> 00:28:12.509
of respect for her but was watching like how

00:28:12.509 --> 00:28:15.190
some people treat. So you have to consistently

00:28:15.190 --> 00:28:17.789
make believe you're Disney and you are on stage,

00:28:17.910 --> 00:28:22.150
be nice and be empathetic. How crazy is that?

00:28:22.170 --> 00:28:24.410
That a lot of business owners, even the older

00:28:24.410 --> 00:28:26.750
ones, don't think they have to be nice. They

00:28:26.750 --> 00:28:30.369
will like, right? Their service is awful. They,

00:28:30.369 --> 00:28:32.130
you know, we're just talking early about the

00:28:32.130 --> 00:28:35.990
leadership. Okay, give me another one. There's

00:28:35.990 --> 00:28:42.660
so many, okay. So I would say another one is

00:28:42.660 --> 00:28:47.259
just you. So obviously there's been big shifts

00:28:47.259 --> 00:28:50.920
in AI and technology. I feel like everyone is

00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:55.400
trying to be like AI first. And then there's

00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:57.000
a lot of people who are just not even touching

00:28:57.000 --> 00:28:58.940
it. They're like, I don't want to deal with it.

00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:04.140
I think the best approach to AI is just try to

00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:09.009
help it, try to use it. to improve your humanization

00:29:09.009 --> 00:29:13.730
in the business. So let's just say, as you mentioned,

00:29:13.769 --> 00:29:19.230
going on stage, how do you leverage AI to maybe

00:29:19.230 --> 00:29:21.630
answer, as I have my little chat bot, not to

00:29:21.630 --> 00:29:25.309
say that it's perfect, but it gets people faster

00:29:25.309 --> 00:29:27.990
to communicate with me. Not all people, but some

00:29:27.990 --> 00:29:30.490
people, they can communicate with me. I'm a human.

00:29:30.630 --> 00:29:36.470
I can't be reproduced in some AI thing. It's

00:29:36.470 --> 00:29:39.390
it's removing some of that like that friction

00:29:39.390 --> 00:29:42.329
to get to me If you want to be like a speaker

00:29:42.329 --> 00:29:46.089
like maybe have it do an annoying part of your

00:29:46.089 --> 00:29:49.029
day That you can just reduplicate over and over

00:29:49.029 --> 00:29:51.829
like it can improve KPI Dashboards or something

00:29:51.829 --> 00:29:53.710
and so now you have a little bit more time to

00:29:53.710 --> 00:29:56.410
like go on stage and speak once a month like

00:29:56.410 --> 00:30:01.109
try to use the AI like Really go deep into having

00:30:01.109 --> 00:30:04.049
it be AI not try to make it like be a human.

00:30:04.269 --> 00:30:07.309
That's not the goal Try to make yourself be more

00:30:07.309 --> 00:30:10.470
human and try to get the AI to be more like AI.

00:30:11.190 --> 00:30:16.150
I love that. Ask AI to interview you. and be

00:30:16.150 --> 00:30:19.049
honest, show it some of your writing before AI

00:30:19.049 --> 00:30:21.970
and it'll get to know you. Oh, you have a water

00:30:21.970 --> 00:30:23.410
bottle that disappeared in the background. That

00:30:23.410 --> 00:30:26.269
was kind of cool. The other thing too, is that

00:30:26.269 --> 00:30:28.490
AI is amazing for business, right? I mean, like

00:30:28.490 --> 00:30:30.410
grabbing questions, even sometimes I'm like,

00:30:30.549 --> 00:30:32.809
can you explain what this person does? And like,

00:30:32.890 --> 00:30:34.750
as I'm a six year old, cause sometimes I'm not

00:30:34.750 --> 00:30:37.769
a hundred percent sure. And it creates Excel,

00:30:37.950 --> 00:30:40.569
reads files. All of that is amazing. Speaking,

00:30:40.869 --> 00:30:43.009
it can, I haven't do a lot of automation, but

00:30:43.009 --> 00:30:46.299
the one thing I don't do, I don't ask it for

00:30:46.299 --> 00:30:49.059
topics or ideas for my writing. I come up with

00:30:49.059 --> 00:30:51.380
the idea first and then I use it. But I will

00:30:51.380 --> 00:30:55.279
tell you, my youngest is 19. And I was talking

00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:58.079
to our friends, they don't like it. They're actually

00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:01.220
going to be the generation that's not using it.

00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:04.910
They're against it. Yes, I've noticed that they

00:31:04.910 --> 00:31:08.809
don't like it as much. They think that it's like

00:31:08.809 --> 00:31:11.410
fraud and, you know, forgery and it's, you know,

00:31:11.490 --> 00:31:14.609
like they don't understand the value of it yet.

00:31:15.789 --> 00:31:19.269
Like, OK, so. I love to speak on stages too.

00:31:19.289 --> 00:31:22.009
I use it to do the whole writing. I mean, it'll

00:31:22.009 --> 00:31:24.230
go through an Excel file for me, tell me which

00:31:24.230 --> 00:31:26.529
speaking gigs are actually good for me. It'll

00:31:26.529 --> 00:31:29.509
write the email for me. It'll do the whole thing.

00:31:29.569 --> 00:31:33.230
So I think there definitely is a place for AI

00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:36.470
and I think it can help seniors too. I mean,

00:31:36.470 --> 00:31:38.730
I think that any age could really use it. So

00:31:38.730 --> 00:31:41.049
I love that. So anything you have to delegate,

00:31:41.210 --> 00:31:43.750
you continue to do it. David Meltzer, I don't

00:31:43.750 --> 00:31:45.569
know if you know David Meltzer. He's a great

00:31:45.569 --> 00:31:48.660
speaker. He says, I'll tell you what he said.

00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:54.220
He says, learn to love what you do and then learn

00:31:54.220 --> 00:31:56.380
to love all the things you don't love to do.

00:31:57.400 --> 00:31:59.880
And I thought, oh, that's great. It's not about

00:31:59.880 --> 00:32:01.579
if you love what you do, you'll never work a

00:32:01.579 --> 00:32:03.940
day in your life. It's about learning to love

00:32:03.940 --> 00:32:06.339
the things you don't love to do. So I love that.

00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:08.519
Do we have any more that you want to share? I

00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:10.579
know we're coming to the end. I have so many,

00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:14.029
but you know, I feel like. It's it's so dependent

00:32:14.029 --> 00:32:16.730
on the industry, but I will say this all right

00:32:16.730 --> 00:32:20.990
I I was a very much a lurker on Instagram Facebook

00:32:20.990 --> 00:32:24.029
LinkedIn all that stuff I like I'm not like naturally

00:32:24.029 --> 00:32:28.769
trying to like go on like social media but one

00:32:28.769 --> 00:32:32.849
thing I would say is like You you like get more

00:32:32.849 --> 00:32:34.990
warmed up to it over time, and I think it does

00:32:34.990 --> 00:32:37.690
add value like it does add leads and there's

00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:42.059
there's like a non -egotistical way to just like

00:32:42.059 --> 00:32:44.359
try and educate people. And that's really how

00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:47.140
I would approach, like even if you are, you know,

00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.859
a landscaper or a power washer, I've seen some

00:32:50.859 --> 00:32:55.000
like amazing TikTok people, all they do is just

00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:58.180
like clean windows and power wash. And it's...

00:32:57.880 --> 00:32:59.960
Those get hundreds of thousands of views because

00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:03.980
it's very meditative. So there's fun ways to

00:33:03.980 --> 00:33:09.240
approach boring industries. And I think the more

00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:13.420
you can just reach people. Ryan Serhant, the

00:33:13.420 --> 00:33:16.180
New York City real estate guy, was talking about

00:33:16.180 --> 00:33:18.579
TikTok. And people were very much against why

00:33:18.579 --> 00:33:21.359
he would be on there and whatever, because there's

00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:24.619
no 14 -year -olds that are buying homes. And

00:33:24.619 --> 00:33:27.930
his insight was like, don't care about the mom

00:33:27.930 --> 00:33:30.450
and the dad trying to sell I care about the kid

00:33:30.450 --> 00:33:32.950
who's gonna sit at the table and talk to their

00:33:32.950 --> 00:33:36.910
mom and dad about this guy that they saw and

00:33:36.910 --> 00:33:40.970
how like the dinner conversation is It's a really

00:33:40.970 --> 00:33:43.390
powerful communication method. So like I would

00:33:43.390 --> 00:33:46.430
just say try and try and like Don't try and hit

00:33:46.430 --> 00:33:49.369
your ICP always try and just get your content

00:33:49.369 --> 00:33:52.069
out and your education out and like weird ways

00:33:52.069 --> 00:33:54.910
to like communicate with like the parents is

00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:58.160
actually in the long term, very powerful. That

00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:01.019
is excellent advice. I'll just add on to that.

00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:02.980
Make sure because I love doing LinkedIn for people

00:34:02.980 --> 00:34:05.640
and I do their LinkedIn profile optimization

00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:07.579
and then strategy, how to reach out. And let

00:34:07.579 --> 00:34:09.739
me tell you, I can't tell you how many I'm like,

00:34:09.860 --> 00:34:11.719
can you just check your contact information?

00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:14.159
And they'll say, oh my god, I haven't had that

00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:16.519
number in five years, or that's not even my website

00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:19.099
anymore. And I'm like, that's what people are

00:34:19.099 --> 00:34:21.280
finding. That's what they're seeing is your contact

00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:23.980
information that's completely wrong. So fix it

00:34:23.980 --> 00:34:26.480
and make it visible. So you've been a great guest.

00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:28.280
I really appreciate it. Is there anything that

00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:31.559
I didn't ask you that you wish I asked you? No.

00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:33.820
I mean, this has been great. I know. I love this.

00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:37.340
I think you asked great questions. Thank you

00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:41.380
for no prep. I always think when I say no prep,

00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:45.769
I think it's like a colonoscopy show. But anyways,

00:34:45.849 --> 00:34:47.329
we won't talk about that because that's about

00:34:47.329 --> 00:34:50.949
a lot of prep. Okay, so thank you so much for

00:34:50.949 --> 00:34:52.730
being on the show. I really appreciate it. It

00:34:52.730 --> 00:34:54.289
was nice meeting you, Justin. Hopefully you'll

00:34:54.289 --> 00:34:56.929
have a chance to tell Cindy or tell your wife

00:34:56.929 --> 00:34:59.889
to tell Cindy that you met Adrian Barker from

00:34:59.889 --> 00:35:02.449
Chatter. And again, if you want the app, let

00:35:02.449 --> 00:35:04.690
me know. You can sign up under chattersocial

00:35:04.690 --> 00:35:07.630
.io. So it's in both play stores and they're

00:35:07.630 --> 00:35:10.670
like little blue bubbles. And then when you see

00:35:10.670 --> 00:35:13.969
that, and if you sign up, just send me an email

00:35:13.969 --> 00:35:16.150
and let me know that you signed up and I'll send

00:35:16.150 --> 00:35:18.309
you the invite. Perfect, Adrienne. Thank you

00:35:18.309 --> 00:35:21.210
so much again. Thank you. Have a great rest of

00:35:21.210 --> 00:35:25.010
the day. Thank you. Bye bye. That was great,

00:35:25.150 --> 00:35:27.309
Justin. Thank you so much. Oh yeah, that was

00:35:27.309 --> 00:35:27.530
great.