Baking a Legacy of Social Justice & Sweet Success in Chicago With Justice of The Pies

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 (Upbeat Music)

[01:00:08:04 - 01:00:30:18]
Sylvia
 Today on "Supper with Sylvia," I'm joined by Maya-Camille Broussard, the founder of Justice of the Pies. She's a Chicago baker who's known for her bold, unexpected flavor combinations. Think lavender lemon, blue cheese, and pear. You might know her from Netflix's "Bake Squad," where she found out live, she had just been nominated for a James Beard Award.

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Maya-Camille
 Shut up! What? What's happening?

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 (Mia Squealing)

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Sylvia
 The name Justice of the Pies honors her late father, Phillip, who called himself the pie master. Her work is shaped by her own experience. Being partially deaf, she uses her platform to fight for equity and opportunity. So her mission is more than pies, it's her part, toughness, and creativity that truly resonate. You're going to love this episode of "Supper with Sylvia," where pie passion meets purpose.

[01:01:09:14 - 01:01:20:10]
Sylvia
 I have to say, I love your location, I love your pies. We have to start with the obvious question, and that is, how'd you get the name Justice of the Pies?

[01:01:21:11 - 01:01:53:00]
Maya-Camille
 Well, I founded the bakery in memory of my late father, who was a criminal defense attorney. And so I created the bakery because he had a love for baking and eating pies. So I was trying to think of something that was clever, that was also alluded to the fact that he was an attorney, and some sort of legal term that I could play around with. And so that's how I developed the name Justice of the Pies. The Pies.

[01:01:53:00 - 01:02:17:00]
Sylvia
 And that's, the name Justice of the Pies goes back so much more, I think, than just, you talk about your father, as I've learned so much about you, you are really all about justice. You are about social justice, you are about equity. You have this cookbook that not only has recipes, but it has inspiring stories.

[01:02:18:03 - 01:02:23:00]
Sylvia
 And I'm curious, tell me, where does all of this come from? Why is that so important to you?

[01:02:23:00 - 01:03:44:02]
Maya-Camille
 I think that oftentimes people focus, especially living in a capitalist society, people poking sore and just getting rich and enriching. I mean, yes, it's cool to enrich your own life, but just getting rich just to have stuff. And I recognize that people who were very, very wealthy were also very unhappy and likely because they had all this stuff, but they didn't have any purpose. And so anything, any endeavor that I've always embarked on, I knew that it had to be purposeful and in order for it to feel fulfilling and to feel truly enriched. And so when I was thinking about starting the bakery, I asked myself, how do I make this endeavor bigger than just myself? When I set out to write the cookbook, I didn't want to necessarily make it just about me, but I wanted to use the platform as an opportunity to highlight other people who use their work to positively impact the lives of others. So I think that naturally that creates good karma, whereas if you are putting good out there, then good comes back to you.

[01:03:45:03 - 01:04:10:07]
Sylvia
 Wow, and I think you're living that life and you're experiencing that. So Justice of the Pie started in 2014, right? But you got this beautiful brick and mortar store, which you're in right now, and there's activity going on everybody because she's working, she's making her delicious product. And I want to just kind of give an example because you're really known for what you do with flavor combinations.

[01:04:11:10 - 01:04:44:02]
Sylvia
 And I have a list here. I want to try them all. I've tried a few. Ginger, carrot and asparagus quiche, strawberry basil key lime, which is one of the things you're really known for and it's one of my favorites, chocolate bacon bourbon pecan, lavender blueberry, blue cheese, praline pie, deep dish, chili quillies quiche. Wow, how did you get to where you decided, you know what, I'm not just gonna make pies or savory quiches. I'm gonna make something that people haven't tried bringing together.

[01:04:44:02 - 01:05:03:21]
Maya-Camille
 I mean, the art of baking and the art of especially baking pie is not anything new. So I think that is always really important to stand out. And the reason why I want to stand out is because as a kid, I tried really hard to fit in. As a person living with a disability,

[01:05:05:09 - 01:05:26:16]
Maya-Camille
 I wanted nothing more than to be cool and to be a part of the group of kids at school and to really just sort of be relatable and to be able to assimilate myself to the cool people in growing up. But as I got older, I realized the value of standing out.

[01:05:27:20 - 01:05:47:01]
Maya-Camille
 And one way that I really try to stand out is through my food. And I am always looking to exercise my creativity with the flavor pairings and the different varieties of pies and cakes and treats that I make. What's your favorite one?

[01:05:51:11 - 01:06:02:10]
Maya-Camille
 You know what? I love good classics. So I am a very much like a classical girl, but I try to make the classical dessert the best that I've ever had.

[01:06:03:16 - 01:06:28:03]
Maya-Camille
 So I actually love carrot cake and my team does too. So we only do carrot cake in the spring and around like March and April and we'll do it for a couple of months in the like leading into the summertime. But I just, we worked for months just to create like the best, most moist, most spice filled carrot cake that we could.

[01:06:29:06 - 01:06:44:07]
Maya-Camille
 And so I just wanted to create an excellent product when it came to the carrot cake. And although I started dressing up the pies and memory of my late father, I actually don't eat a lot of pie. What?

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Maya-Camille
 My favorite thing to eat is

[01:06:49:15 - 01:06:50:03]
Maya-Camille
 pound cake.

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Sylvia
 Ooh, that looks good.

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Maya-Camille
 We have lemon pound cake that we can never ever take off the menu, even if we try. But I grew up eating pound cake and I love the density of the cake and the buttery flavor. And so that's one of my favorite things. Yeah.

[01:07:07:03 - 01:07:20:07]
Sylvia
 So let's talk about your bakery. It's so beautiful. I went there shortly after you opened and I love how you have really focused on making it accessible for everybody.

[01:07:21:12 - 01:07:47:00]
Sylvia
 You understand have 75% hearing loss. So that has impacted your life, I'm sure in so many ways. And I'm sure that's why when you do what you do with everything today, you try to keep those who might need some, you know, extra attention in mind. Tell me about why that's so important to you and why you did that with your first bakery.

[01:07:49:05 - 01:08:22:03]
Maya-Camille
 Growing up and even now, I experienced a lot of disparity because of, you know, me living with a disability, whether it is going to the doctor's office and experiencing disparity because I'm a black woman living with a disability. I actually experienced that fairly recently and my mom is a physician. And so she was the one that was able to call it out. And when I described what happened to me, even when I was first diagnosed with having severe hearing loss,

[01:08:23:08 - 01:08:43:10]
Maya-Camille
 my mother was told to just accept that I was deaf and dumb because I was not speaking. And so when you see that people lack empathy and lack the ability to make our community accessible, it really propelled me to want to do the opposite.

[01:08:44:12 - 01:09:23:07]
Maya-Camille
 And so when I moved into this space, or when I purchased this space, I told my architect, look, we have to walk through this space and figure out how can we make it as accessible as possible? This building that Just as a Pies is housed in was built in 1956. And it's a beautiful mid-century modern style building, but it was not very accommodating for people living with disabilities. So one of the first things that we did was we reached out to the alderman and asked them for help with the sidewalks because the sidewalks were really uneven. You know, it was a tripping hazard.

[01:09:24:08 - 01:09:42:06]
Maya-Camille
 So we were able to get that done. We demoed our entrance way, the walkway to the building and created a wheelchair ramp, which is really going above and beyond because there are so many places in the city of Chicago and beyond that do not have wheelchair accessible entrances.

[01:09:43:11 - 01:10:36:11]
Maya-Camille
 And then when you come in, we have a countertop that is the standard height, which is 34 inches. But then we also have countertops that are wheelchair height that includes 32 inches. And then we have some seating, but we also provided seating for children and for little people, people in a little person's community. And so we really wanted to go above and beyond. You know, even in our restaurant, you have hand guard rails that every restaurant or retail facility must have, but we also added a stool underneath the sink so that someone could step up to the sink. We also have hooks at two different levels, regular standard level and then a lower level so you can hang up your coat.

[01:10:37:13 - 01:10:45:21]
Maya-Camille
 So we just really still continue to always look around the space around us to say, okay, how can we make this more accessible?

[01:10:47:02 - 01:10:49:14]
Sylvia
 It's such a beautiful, beautiful facility.

[01:10:50:22 - 01:11:12:07]
Sylvia
 You've just done such a great job. And that atmosphere combined with the amazing product that you sell, it's just all encompassing. You can walk in there, you can feel it, you can taste it. Everything about it is so stimulating. I read somewhere that you said that your hearing loss makes you a superhero. Tell me about that.

[01:11:13:10 - 01:11:54:00]
Maya-Camille
 So whenever you lose the ability in one sense and all of that sensory information moves to another sense. Think about Ray Charles being able to hear the sounds of a hummingbird, even though he had low vision. For me, I think that all of my sensory information has been shifted over to my sense of smell and my sense of taste, which is very much needed when you are a chef. And I am pretty much a super taster and I smell things before everybody else does. So I think that really helps me in being in tune with the flavors that I'm working with.

[01:11:54:00 - 01:12:06:02]
Sylvia
 Yeah, wow. And that's partially maybe why you're so good about putting things, combinations together that people would never even think of. What's the craziest combination you've ever done?

[01:12:09:06 - 01:12:31:12]
Maya-Camille
 The blue cheese, falling pear pie is up there. I also do a big and big quiche, which has dried bits and made of chain-go cheese and then strips of bacon on top of the quiche custard. Sort of like a salty sweet combination that people really don't think of. But I really love pairing fruit with cheese

[01:12:32:16 - 01:12:35:05]
Maya-Camille
 in my pies and in my treats.

[01:12:36:22 - 01:12:59:18]
Maya-Camille
 Trying to think, I've made so much, we really try to keep our menu interesting and we will change it seasonally. And so, oh, I did a miso honey chest pie last spring. And again, that sort of saltiness with the sweetness. I like a really good balance of saltiness and sweetness. I don't like when something is too sweet

[01:13:00:21 - 01:13:02:12]
Maya-Camille
 or it has too much umami.

[01:13:03:13 - 01:13:48:08]
Sylvia
 Now you've done cooking classes where you're teaching people how to bake, but you also do these workshops for children. I know you're about giving back. That's very important to you. And I understand food insecurity is something you also wanna focus on. So there's a couple of things I wanna talk to you about that when we speak about trying to make sure everybody has that equity. The first thing I wanna ask you about is when you built your bakery on purpose, you did it in an area that you felt like needed something like this. You could have come downtown. You could have come to another area. Why was it so important to be in Avalon Park where you are?

[01:13:48:08 - 01:14:12:11]
Maya-Camille
 Well, the first thing is this is my neighborhood. I grew up on the South side of Chicago. I live on the South side of Chicago. And I wanted to be an early adopter to a neighborhood that I could see was going to be experiencing a change in the future, especially with the Obama Library being built right off of Stony Island and relocated right off of Stony Island.

[01:14:13:19 - 01:14:29:12]
Maya-Camille
 But this is the neighborhood. Actually the building that I purchased that just is of the prices in is my mom's childhood dentist office. So this is a neighborhood that I know very well and that I know deserves to have an establishment like mine.

[01:14:30:12 - 01:14:42:12]
Maya-Camille
 We are completely surrounded by fast food establishments. This is considered to be a blighted corridor that does not see a lot of private investment. And so I really wanted to come into,

[01:14:44:09 - 01:15:21:16]
Maya-Camille
 I am the type of person that I always root for the underdog. Even when I'm watching a sports event, I'm always rooting for the underdog because I know what it feels like to be the underdog. And this neighborhood might be considered some as the underdog of many neighborhoods in Chicago. The city of Chicago might be considered an underdog because you have so many politicians that spout negative views and misinformation about the city of Chicago and about the South side and West side of Chicago. So it was important for me to be a part of

[01:15:22:16 - 01:15:29:09]
Maya-Camille
 many entrepreneurs and enterprising people who come in and make the neighborhood what it is.

[01:15:30:10 - 01:15:43:15]
Sylvia
 And you're also big on trying to teach young people about nutrition and feeding themselves. And does that stem from experiences you had? Did you experience hunger yourself as a young girl? Tell me about that.

[01:15:43:15 - 01:15:49:00]
Maya-Camille
 So I didn't necessarily experience hunger per se, my dad did.

[01:15:50:02 - 01:16:54:15]
Maya-Camille
 I experienced the residual effects of that generational trauma that comes from hunger. So there were times where my dad would eat all of my food or the fridge was not fully stocked. And I only knew that something was off because my parents were divorced and my mom's eating dinner and lunch at my mom's house look completely different than eating meals at my dad's house. So I knew what a myth to have three nutritional meals per day and I didn't necessarily have that at my dad's house. But what I saw more over was how my dad's relationship with food was not necessarily a positive one. And yes, he loved to bake pies and quiches but he also had a traumatic experience growing up lacking food, not just my father, but his sisters as well. And I could see how those behaviors influenced myself and my cousins about our food choices or how we view food

[01:16:56:01 - 01:17:02:13]
Maya-Camille
 and how we have a relationship with just food in general.

[01:17:04:06 - 01:17:25:09]
Maya-Camille
 When I was thinking about how justice of the pies can make an impact, I knew that fighting food insecurity was an easy way. It was a no brainer because it was something that I had experienced and I could see how from a generational standpoint, how it affected my family.

[01:17:25:09 - 01:17:41:23]
Sylvia
 So what do you wanna teach the children in the underserved communities? What do you want to give to them that maybe spare them some of the things that, you know, that trauma that your dad experienced and what effect it ended up having on you? What's your goal with that?

[01:17:41:23 - 01:17:58:13]
Maya-Camille
 So since 2007, we activated a workshop called the I Need Love workshop that teaches kids who reside in lower income communities that are affected by food apartheid and food insecurities and we teach them basic kitchen skills.

[01:17:59:15 - 01:18:57:18]
Maya-Camille
 So I am, you know, little me, I'm unable to end world hunger but what I can do is take the skillset and the knowledge that I have to teach children how to be self-sufficient in the kitchen. I had a moment when my dad left me at home alone and I was in a fourth grade and he was at the courthouse and he was not back at the hour that he said that he would be back and we didn't have any groceries in the fridge. We have stuff in the freezer but nothing that was ready to eat. And he came home maybe four or five hours later than when he had promised to come home and I was really hungry and I was furious with him for leaving me there with nothing to eat. But if I had the rare with all and if I was self-sufficient in the kitchen, I might've been able to take in some of the frozen foods that were in the freezer and prepared it and actually, you know, it may not have been amazing

[01:18:59:01 - 01:19:40:19]
Maya-Camille
 but it would have been something that would have filled me until he got home. And I realized that in some communities, you have children whose parents have two jobs or the parents has to work late and they're not able to always be at home to create a full meal, you know, maybe there's leftovers, maybe there's not. But if I can at least help children who are at the age where they're becoming more independent, if I could teach them to be self-sufficient in the kitchen, meaning have basic kitchen skills to be able to prepare something for themselves, they were halfway there in terms of the battle against food insecurity.

[01:19:42:03 - 01:19:43:12]
Sylvia
 And we'll be right back.

[01:19:46:10 - 01:20:06:06]
Sylvia
 Hey foodie friends, if supper with Sylvia feed your soul like it feeds ours, show us some love. Subscribe, like, leave a kind review and share it with someone who loves a good story and a good meal. Thanks for joining supper with Sylvia. It's the love of food that brings us together but it's the stories behind each bite that brings this to life.

[01:20:12:15 - 01:20:21:05]
Sylvia
 So what would you say the most, the thing you are most proud of that you've been able to do because of your current position now?

[01:20:23:19 - 01:20:35:03]
Maya-Camille
 You know, that's really funny. I never really stopped to reflect on that because I'm always in go mode and I'm always trying to, you know, I'm never like happy with where I am

[01:20:36:08 - 01:20:40:00]
Maya-Camille
 or, you know, I don't think like, oh, I've done this, I've done that.

[01:20:41:10 - 01:21:37:05]
Maya-Camille
 You know, I'm very hard on myself. So it's always about what I haven't done or what more can I do? But I'm proud to be in this space. I'm proud to have built out this bakery. It was a very uphill battle and climb to get here. I'm proud to have published a cookbook and to have received notable recognition for the book by many different publications. I'm proud to have been named pastry chef of the year by "Escraya" magazine in 2023 and to have been nominated for a James Beard awards as a finalist in 2022 for "Outstanding Baker." So those are some, you know, monumental milestones and moments that, you know, I'm proud of, but I'm always thinking of how I can do better.

[01:21:38:22 - 01:21:53:05]
Sylvia
 Well, that's why you're so good at what you do. Because you always think there's another level I can get to. Let's talk about Bake Squad, because a lot of people know you from Bake Squad. You were on multiple seasons. What's that like? That has to be so nerve wracking.

[01:21:54:07 - 01:21:59:06]
Maya-Camille
 It is a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very intense, it's very high energy, it's very, very long days.

[01:22:00:16 - 01:22:15:01]
Maya-Camille
 But it was a fun experience. We did have two seasons. And I think that when I was on the show, or I do not think that I know that, when I was on the show and I was speak with the person who had the event that they needed baked goods for,

[01:22:16:04 - 01:22:40:23]
Maya-Camille
 my goal was to always elicit an emotional reaction and to make the bake as personal as possible. I really wanted the person to walk away feeling like I listened to them and their story, and that I encapsulated the feeling that they shared when they came onto the show.

[01:22:40:23 - 01:22:43:04]
Sylvia
 Wow, would you do it again and again?

[01:22:44:11 - 01:22:49:21]
Maya-Camille
 Oh, maybe, yeah. Yeah. People always ask if there would be another season, and I don't have the answers for that.

[01:22:49:21 - 01:22:55:21]
Sylvia
 Yeah, well, I know that you enjoyed it, and we were so proud you represented us so well.

[01:22:56:23 - 01:23:04:06]
Sylvia
 And I think it really kind of helped put your name out there even more, not just locally, but across the country, right? You must have had a lot of people reaching out.

[01:23:04:06 - 01:23:18:01]
Maya-Camille
 Yeah, we have a lot of visitors from places like Brazil, and we've had people from Japan and Australia that have come to the bakery because they saw me on the baseball show.

[01:23:18:01 - 01:23:53:10]
Sylvia
 So as a journalist, I always had somebody I looked up to, and growing up, I used to watch Barbara Walters. You remember Barbara Walters? Famous journalist, okay. She is notorious for a lot of interviews. In one interview, she asked the person, "If you were a tree, what tree would you be?" So in the Barbara Walters vein, I wanna ask you, if you were a pie, what pie would you be and why?

[01:23:56:14 - 01:24:03:07]
Maya-Camille
 I will probably be a key line pie because I consider myself to be silky smooth. I'm being reserved.

[01:24:04:20 - 01:24:10:23]
Maya-Camille
 I'm bright, I have personality, but I'm smooth and not rigid,

[01:24:12:14 - 01:24:19:23]
Maya-Camille
 and people always are kind of surprised when they find out how reserved I am.

[01:24:21:03 - 01:24:35:09]
Maya-Camille
 There are people who have said, "Oh, you're so quiet." It's like, I don't always have to talk, but when I do, I can bring personality, but I also need to recharge my social battery and retreat. So when I think of key line pie, I think of its brightness,

[01:24:36:10 - 01:24:43:21]
Maya-Camille
 the little spots of personality that I can have, but I also think of its silkiness and its smoothness. I just literally go with the flow.

[01:24:43:21 - 01:24:52:10]
Sylvia
 Oh, that's a great answer. I love that. That is so perfect to describe you. Okay, what kind of pie would I be? You know me.

[01:24:52:10 - 01:24:56:08]
Maya-Camille
 Yeah, I think that,

[01:24:58:07 - 01:25:03:02]
Maya-Camille
 that's a really good question. I'm going to say that you would be a,

[01:25:06:06 - 01:25:10:01]
Maya-Camille
 maybe a more like cake. You would be a sweet potato pie because- A sweet potato.

[01:25:11:15 - 01:25:36:15]
Maya-Camille
 You're comforting, but also you're a classic. You've been around, you've been in the game forever, and everybody loves sweet potato pie. Everybody knows you, and people love sweet potato pie across different cultures. It's not just a Southern thing, but I think of sweet potato pie being the classic pie that everyone always thinks of apple pie being the classic pie. I think that is sweet potato because it's truly,

[01:25:38:00 - 01:25:53:20]
Maya-Camille
 for me, the soulful American pie. You have a little bit of soul. It's a classic. It's really hard to mess up. You know, it's dependable, and you know that nobody can say no to sweet potato pie.

[01:25:53:20 - 01:26:02:09]
Sylvia
 I love it. I love it. Okay, I'm going to tell everybody. I have the ultimate compliment. Maya Camille Broussard called me a sweet potato pie.

[01:26:03:13 - 01:26:04:18]
Sylvia
 What more could you want?

[01:26:07:09 - 01:26:12:14]
Sylvia
 So I know we've been talking pies and sweets, but I always love to ask people,

[01:26:13:20 - 01:26:19:21]
Sylvia
 where is your favorite go-to place in Chicago? If you want comfort food

[01:26:21:03 - 01:26:28:11]
Sylvia
 or something that makes you feel good, you know it's going to be great. When you want that kind of meal, where do you like to go, Maya?

[01:26:29:22 - 01:27:20:20]
Maya-Camille
 So I'm also in Hyde Park. I grew up in Hyde Park, and I live very close to Hyde Park. And I love neighborhood spots, and one neighborhood spot that is always just super consistent and very, you know, literally when I walk in, they treat me like family. It's called Accioni Bistro, and I'm Miss Italian, but you know, I literally would just go have a salad with a side of fries, which is by the way, my favorite meal, salad. A salad of fries. So yeah, Accioni Bistro, it's just a really comforting, consistent, warm and enjoyable place to be. And again, it's a neighborhood bar. Not a neighborhood bar, but it's a neighborhood restaurant that is just very reliable.

[01:27:21:22 - 01:27:46:04]
Sylvia
 I always love to ask people about that because I want to give, you know, a shout out to all the other places that maybe those of us who live in Chicago have never heard of, and I haven't heard of that. So thank you for sharing. Hopefully, you know, give them a shout out and get more people out there to see them too. Okay, let's talk about what are your plans for the future? What's happening?

[01:27:47:07 - 01:28:24:08]
Maya-Camille
 So here's the thing, people have asked me that, and I always tell other people that I talk to to never share your plans. You don't know whose energy, you know, can touch your ideas or how people feel about it. I always work in silence. So yeah, do I have some things I'm working on? Yeah, but do I share? I never share it to the absolute last moment. And I wish more people would do that because I feel like people overshare and then it never comes to fruition. People say, oh, I'm gonna write a book or I have, you know, I'm writing a book. Okay, but just write the book. Don't tell people you're writing the book

[01:28:25:17 - 01:28:37:20]
Maya-Camille
 because then you look up 10 years later and they're still writing the same book that they've been talking about 10 years prior. Just write the book and then when the book is about to come up, come out, then you announce your pub date.

[01:28:39:03 - 01:28:43:11]
Maya-Camille
 But yeah, I'm sorry, but that's my final answer. That's okay.

[01:28:43:11 - 01:28:53:02]
Sylvia
 I call my final answer. I actually love that. That's really good advice too, I think that people could pay attention to, but I also know there's something going on, so I can't wait to see what that something is.

[01:28:53:02 - 01:28:55:21]
Maya-Camille
 Lastly, I want people to understand that,

[01:28:56:22 - 01:29:04:22]
Maya-Camille
 I think there's this misconception that when you work in Page Street or it's baking, it's rainbows and ponies and, you know,

[01:29:07:14 - 01:29:40:18]
Maya-Camille
 it's such a frilly and magical carnival experience. There are people who say, oh, I wanna come and bake with you and it's like, no, this is backbreaking labor. This is serious work and so I know that culinary all the time gets a lot of respect and by culinary, I mean, safe and shut, but I implore people to also respect those of us who are doing baked goods because it's just as hard and laborious and rewarding.

[01:29:41:20 - 01:30:08:13]
Sylvia
 Yeah, and that's why I so appreciate you joining me this morning. I wanna tell everybody, follow Maya's social media. I love her on Instagram. She's a fashion girl, she's a baker, she's funny. It's just a pleasure to follow your Instagram account and also to consider you a friend. We've gotten to know each other over the years and I really admire everything you do, so.

[01:30:08:13 - 01:30:09:00]
Maya-Camille
 Likewise.

[01:30:09:00 - 01:30:20:17]
Sylvia
 Thank you for joining me. This podcast is produced by Jane Stephens, audio engineering and original music by Donnie Cutting, social media and promotions, Magali Blasdell.