July 30, 2025
The Kiss Cam Fallout: What Happens When Cheating Goes Viral? With Dr. Nadine Macaluso
Send us a text A kiss caught on camera, a relationship shattered in seconds. When the infamous "Kiss Cam Cheater" went viral, millions witnessed the raw, unfiltered moment betrayal trauma unfolds—leaving many of us wondering what happens when our deepest fears play out in public. Who better to guide us through this emotional wreckage than someone who's survived her own high-profile betrayal? Dr. Nadine Macaluso, psychotherapist and former wife of the real-life Wolf of Wall Street, joins us t...
A kiss caught on camera, a relationship shattered in seconds. When the infamous "Kiss Cam Cheater" went viral, millions witnessed the raw, unfiltered moment betrayal trauma unfolds—leaving many of us wondering what happens when our deepest fears play out in public.
Who better to guide us through this emotional wreckage than someone who's survived her own high-profile betrayal? Dr. Nadine Macaluso, psychotherapist and former wife of the real-life Wolf of Wall Street, joins us to unpack why this moment resonated so deeply with so many people. "Betrayal trauma cracks your soul," she explains. "It's one of the most painful relational experiences we can have on this planet."
Through our conversation, Dr. Macaluso reveals the psychology behind betrayal—the emotional dysregulation, cognitive dissonance, and profound loss of trust that follows. We explore how people compartmentalize during affairs, why certain personalities feel entitled to risk everything for a thrill, and the power dynamics that often fuel infidelity. Most importantly, she shares a roadmap for healing whether your heartbreak happens privately or with the world watching.
"Trust your gut and get curious," Dr. Macaluso advises. While approximately 70% of relationships don't survive infidelity, about 30% do—especially when the betraying partner can truly acknowledge the pain they've caused without defensiveness. Drawing from both professional expertise and personal experience, she offers hope to anyone feeling shattered: "Healing is a process and it's not linear. It's one step forward, two steps back, and you're worth it."
Ready to understand betrayal trauma and begin your healing journey? This episode provides both compassionate insight and practical tools for rebuilding trust—in others and in yourself. Subscribe now and join our community committed to finding authentic connection in a complicated world.
00:00 - Introduction to Betrayal Trauma
06:26 - The Kiss Cam Cheating Scandal
13:56 - Power, Entitlement and Brazen Behavior
20:34 - Rebuilding After Public Betrayal
27:46 - The Truth About Healing From Infidelity
33:00 - Tips for Moving Forward After Heartbreak
WEBVTT
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I'm Carrie Brett, and this is Shot at Love when you try your best but you don't succeed and then get busted on the Jumbotron.
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This week, I'm sitting down with Dr Nadine Macaluso to unpack the emotional wreckage of the now infamous Kiss Cam Cheater.
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We'll talk public betrayal, trauma bonds and how to fix you after someone breaks you.
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Dr Nadine's own story is one of profound transformation.
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Once married to the real-life Wolf of Wall Street, her chaotic past became a Hollywood blockbuster hit, but she rebuilt her life, becoming a psychotherapist and author of Run Like Hell.
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She's here to share what she's learned about overcoming and starting over and helping others do the same.
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I'm Keri Brett, and Shot Love starts now.
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Hi, Dr Ney, thanks so much for being here.
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Hello, Hello.
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So our last interview was so good.
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We actually I don't know if I told you this we won a communicator award of excellence.
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Yay, yeah, so I'm really happy about that.
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I'm not surprised because your story is so inspiring.
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There was a time in your life that was filled with turmoil and tears.
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The FBI raided your home and arrested your husband your ex-husband, I should say and that day you left with the curtains in your children.
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That's like my favorite line of all time.
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This past week we saw two families ripped apart by infidelity and I know it evoked some emotion with me and it seems to be triggering a lot of people.
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It went viral on the internet.
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I've noticed that people don't want to talk about it.
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Lot of people and went viral on the internet.
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I've noticed that people don't want to talk about it and I wanted to use this as a opportunity to talk about fear, rebuilding, overcoming things that you're an expert in.
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So, being a therapist, did you see people that you know be triggered?
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Were you yourself triggered?
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Myself wasn't triggered, but I saw I think, of course, many of my patients were triggered, right, Because what we saw, which was just, I mean, such an insane circumstance, right, what's the chances of that happening?
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But we saw a betrayal trauma, right, and that is incredibly painful.
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And what's the one thing, right?
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We're social beings.
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We're wired for connection, we're programmed to fall in love, and when you fall in love and then you marry this person, you believe that there's a pact and that there's trust.
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And for that trust to be broken and for everyone to see it, I think it just triggered a core wound and a core need in all of us.
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And what does it say about us as a society?
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Though that and I know in Boston, being a Bostonian, and it happened here I almost think that Bostonians are really tough.
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We're exactly like New Yorkers in the sense that we can't be bought off and we don't like injustice and we don't like to see it in our backyard.
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I think, as Bostonians, that was very unexpected to happen in our city.
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We just had the Karen Reid trial and it was becoming the summer of sidebars and side pieces and it was like what is even going on around here?
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I don't know why, if it was because he was a wealthy CEO and someone in charge of HR and then was that a Coldplay concert and they came up with the term Coldplay?
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It made me think of you, because when I read your book and I watched the movie, who would be the perfect person to speak to this?
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Yeah, it has all of the elements right.
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First of all, there's a power imbalance there.
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He has the power right and we all know that we're really not supposed to sexually fraternize with people at work, especially when you are the leader.
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He's the leader of this company.
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He's supposed to have a moral compass what we would hope but clearly he used his power and balance I don't know exactly what happened between them and there's an exploitation of that power by fraternizing with somebody that's below you in the pole at work, and then you could see the humiliation on their faces was the most human emotion we've seen.
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That was better than reality TV.
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It's true, just how he sunk to the ground.
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But the thing that I wanted to talk to you about is that now, I'm not a therapist, I just happen to study narcissistic patterns, right.
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What's another word other than narcissistic abuse?
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It's a brazen activity.
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Yeah, brazen is perfect and that's a part of pathology, by the way.
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I started to think about this.
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And we don't know these two people, so we don't know much about what they're like, but we also know patterns.
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That's right what?
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they're like, but we also know patterns and to go out publicly where you know that there's a jumbotron.
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The disregard, I think, is where it hit home.
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Yeah, the disregard of their families.
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Right, right, I mean, and I think I was listening to something that they say you know, when you get your ticket it actually says like there's a jumbotron, you could be filmed, right.
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So they're letting you know on the ticket this can happen, or if it's an electronic ticket, whatever.
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Yeah, and I think brazen is a very important word to use, because there's kind of a level of like you're saying disregard and just like we get to do whatever we want.
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But to me that's entitlement too.
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I think that 1%, the entitlement comes with the money and the power.
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So that's what I was saying, is that we can't just diagnose people from afar that we don't know, but we can identify certain patterns that happen to be in your line of work yeah, there's also like a fearlessness and a boldness about doing that.
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Mostly when they have fairs they're there's, they're kind of clandestine right, and that's why they go to the motel six on the side of the road and it's almost like they were playing with fire that they.
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That was part of the thrill perhaps good point it could be, because it's almost like.
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The stupidity of it is almost like are you trying to get caught?
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And, who knows, maybe they were.
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You don't even know.
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That's the thing and we're just speculating at this point.
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I felt sorry that people have had such a adverse reaction to it because it's you can't catch it.
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You know what I'm saying.
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Like we're very comfortable talking about it because we've both done an extreme amount of work.
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It made me think about dating and fear and starting over and people's patterns.
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They are afraid.
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That's the one thing that they're afraid when they start dating.
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Am I going to have this happen to me again?
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yes.
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I didn't want to be publicly shaming these people or their families.
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All I wanted to do was to have a conversation about this because people are really interested in it, and what can be learned from this.
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I was thinking about you, and you rebuilt your life under the most insane circumstances, but my question to you would be is cheating that much harder to overcome when it's played out publicly, would you say?
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You know, I think that betrayal trauma, being betrayed by the person that you trust, really cracks your soul.
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I do believe that it's one of the most painful relational experiences that we can have on this planet, and I think it hurts a lot when it's done privately.
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And, of course, having it for the whole world to see is another layer of pain.
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Right, of course it's another layer of pain, but you know, it also depends on their relationship.
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I don't know where they were in their relationship.
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Were they like listen, we're just going to stay together.
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We're not happily married.
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We both know this.
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Right.
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Or was he pretending like everything's fine while living a separate life?
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That also affects the level of pain that the betrayed partner feels.
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That's the thing we don't know.
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That I found interesting is that the wife moved.
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The CEO's wife moved so quickly that she dismantled her social media, dropped his name In my mind.
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Maybe she had somebody good guiding her, but an everyday person I don't know that they would have moved that fast.
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Yeah, and I think, though, the shock of it probably enabled her to move so fast.
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Probably.
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Because that's such a shocking, horrific thing.
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For me it was different, like I had lived through betrayal and trauma with my ex, but it came out in a book and a movie much later, after I had left Right, right, and it was still challenging in its own way.
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But you know, I'm sure, the actual shock of this.
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She reacted and she reacted appropriately.
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It sounds like she was protecting herself and that was the right thing to do.
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I think it was the right thing to do.
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I think you don't know what you're capable of until you have to do it.
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That's right.
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Yeah, and she doesn't need comments or harassment or any more judgment towards her on social media.
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I didn't really want to be doing was judging anyone, because we're all human and we're not in anyone else's shoes.
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We're all human and we all make mistakes, and I think that marriage in general it's really an experiment and we don't know if it's succeeding or failing.
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Honestly at this point, you know it used to be for economic reasons.
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It used to be for a lot more basic reasons survival reasons, not like this about love and that really changed as we evolved as a species and now we live till 80.
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So anything can happen.
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So I don't know when they got together, honestly, but that's a long span to be with somebody and love is very messy, it's very imperfect and people do survive betrayals.
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Couples do survive it, but something has to happen where the one partner who betrayed who is the betrayer.
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Let's say they have to be able to sit in the fire with the person that they've hurt and receive their pain and not get defensive.
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I've seen it heal.
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I've seen people move past it.
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I don't know if they will, but I have seen it.
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Yeah, that's the interesting thing the amount of cheating that happens and that happens in the workplace it seems like that's where it happens.
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Right, because it's all about proximity.
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Right, that makes sense you know.
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So if you're surrounded by this person every single day, all day, and then you start to flirt, and then it gets a little more, and then all the sexual tension builds.
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Listen you can't have great sex with somebody for 30 years you can have it for a decent amount of time.
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But then relationships really do change.
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Again, I don't know what was happening in their home, but yeah, it happens in the workplace Travel salesmen notorious for that.
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Pilots.
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Yeah, and they compartmentalize in their mind.
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This is okay, they rationalize it, everybody does it.
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And then before you know it, two families are devastated.
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That's part of the oxytocin and that's part of the chemical and the toxicity of it.
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When you're having an affair, everything is set on a false pretense.
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Anyways, it is a house of cards.
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Yeah, because it's not real life.
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When you're married and you have kids and you got to get the kids to school and parents are sick and dying, or one of the partners gets sick or there's money challenges, right, those challenges put stress on a marriage and a relationship, but an affair is really this fantasy that you're kind of in a bubble, away from all of those real issues in life, filled with, like you say, tons of fun, hormones and excitement.
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What's so interesting about the kiss cam to be exposed that way?
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Oh?
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my God.
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It's just unbelievable.
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Really, that's when life and I say this all the time with my book the things that happened.
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People will say it's almost like it's not even real, but it is real.
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It was real.
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These things are so insane that you couldn't make it up if you tried no, you couldn't have even coordinated that if you tried.
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That's like all the stars aligning.
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If you don't believe in divine ordinance, oh yeah, some god, some goddesses, something bigger than us, right?
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We saw it play out.
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We saw it play out and who knows, who knows, maybe for whatever's happening in these people's lives.
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This is part of their journey that was supposed to happen.
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I'm sure at the time you felt that you'd never overcome.
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Yeah, correct, yeah.
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So what advice would you give somebody who either something is playing out publicly or silently?
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What advice would you give to that person?
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Because I think that hopelessness really kicks in.
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And you don't think you really can ever get it.
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Here's the thing when a betrayal like that happens.
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It can happen not just with our lovers, right.
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It can happen with family members who deeply betray us in various ways.
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For me, I think the best way to look at it is that nobody runs for help because they feel great.
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Nobody comes to my office like, hey, dr Nan, I feel fabulous.
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People come because they're on their knees and betrayal brings us to our knees and it's incredibly painful.
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But it is a chance for us to go inside, to reach out for help, to say, hey, I need help, can you help me get through this?
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And usually, when somebody does reach out for help, it's a chance for you to really start to also work on yourself.
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Like, what have I been tolerating?
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Did I miss the signs?
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Was I just plain pretending my marriage, you know?
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Was it just going along to get along?
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Was I people pleasing, right?
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And so you get to ask yourself all of these questions because you can't change the other person, you can't control the other person.
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It's a great time to really ground in yourself, ironically, because that's all you can do.
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So you have to get strong to get through it.
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I agree.
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That's the piece.
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Like you said, when you're in a relationship, it's messy and you're dealing with human emotions and real life and all these things that can happen, you have to realize that all you can do is control your lane, control how you respond to this, because you can't control other people.
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Right, and of course, you have to give yourself all the space for all of your emotions anger, sadness, rage, fear because there's going to be a mix of them, and that's what happens is that we, first of all, we feel emotionally dysregulated.
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We feel so emotionally overwhelmed, so usually that's when we go to therapy, right?
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Also, we feel like a total lack of trust in self and in others.
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How did I not see this?
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How could this have happened?
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And so those are the three things emotional dysregulation, lack of trust in others and a whole kind of almost cognitive dissonance about ourselves.
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I thought I was a strong person.
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How could this have ever happened to me?
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I thought we were in love.
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What do I even know?
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that's what I think is so confusing and that's why it's so hard to get out of a toxic relationship, because everything's upside down love, bombing, craziness and you get used to living life like you're jumping out of a plane.
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You do, you get used to it.
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Yesterday I went on the radio here in Boston and it's intense.
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They move very quickly at a radio station that size and it made me think about my life photographing covers at the clip that I did and how really challenging and intense being in that world was.
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But it didn't bother me because I was so seasoned to it.
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I did it on repeat.
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I put out a new cover every two weeks.
00:17:18.018 --> 00:17:25.689
So I didn't think about it because it was just something I got used to doing and I think your body can overcompensate.
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Your mind can overcompensate for a lot of things not working.
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Who knows how long things weren't working for these people, we don't know.
00:17:36.315 --> 00:17:39.626
This was a question that someone had asked me to ask you.
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Do you think that everybody knows down deep something's wrong or that potentially someone could be cheating, or do most people not see the red flags?
00:17:50.805 --> 00:17:55.730
And almost like I think that women if we're going to talk about women in general I think they have amazing intuition.
00:17:55.730 --> 00:17:56.271
I agree.
00:17:57.246 --> 00:17:58.952
And I think that they do know.
00:17:58.952 --> 00:18:13.493
But again, if you're financially dependent upon this person, if one of your children is acting out right, or you have a parent that you're dealing with or you just have, you've been living in a relationship that hasn't been validating, so you don't trust yourself anymore.
00:18:13.493 --> 00:18:30.858
There's a lot of reasons why, even though you dismiss it, you deny it, you ignore it because it's scary to face and you have to be ready to blow up your life, almost theoretically and I think a lot of it in this country, especially with COVID, was the financial dependence.
00:18:31.579 --> 00:18:32.441
Yeah sure.
00:18:33.164 --> 00:18:37.396
So it's not this cut and dry situation by any means.
00:18:37.396 --> 00:18:43.657
That's where they will be able to navigate this easier, because there is money there.
00:18:57.365 --> 00:19:04.162
Yes, and we live in a world now where there are services where, if they did want to work on their marriage if I don't know if they do where they can go to a retreat or go see Terry Real, one of these amazing couples therapists there's a bunch of them that run them, but they do have money, so they're more resourced than most.
00:19:04.162 --> 00:19:05.505
I think they have three children, right.
00:19:05.845 --> 00:19:10.486
I think the CEO does they have three children, right?
00:19:10.506 --> 00:19:10.906
I think the ceo does.
00:19:10.906 --> 00:19:11.990
Yes, yeah, so people often stay together for that too.
00:19:11.990 --> 00:19:13.051
But yeah, they do have money so that.
00:19:13.051 --> 00:19:27.169
But it doesn't matter, because even though they have resources and they can get help, still same pain still a long road yeah what do you think the survival of marriage is?
00:19:28.411 --> 00:19:29.593
overcoming the cheating?
00:19:29.593 --> 00:19:35.351
Do you see half and half, that the marriage is just over or the relationship is just over?
00:19:35.351 --> 00:19:36.815
What would you say?
00:19:36.875 --> 00:19:42.888
I would say half and half, oh really yeah, I've seen a lot of people work through it.
00:19:42.888 --> 00:19:49.317
Let me think about that that's probably 70, 30 probably 70.
00:19:49.397 --> 00:20:07.509
Can't get over it, but I've seen 30 get over it interesting especially if you've been together for a long time, and sometimes I say this in one long marriage you can have one, two, you can act, have act one, act two and act three, especially if you're going to be with this partner for a long time and try to grow together.
00:20:07.509 --> 00:20:16.556
And there's also a difference between chronic cheating, somebody who's a sex addict and has to go to a massage parlor a few times a week.
00:20:16.556 --> 00:20:17.558
It's all different types.
00:20:17.558 --> 00:20:20.515
This was clearly a romantic connection.
00:20:20.515 --> 00:20:24.132
This seems extraordinarily painful.
00:20:24.693 --> 00:20:25.175
I would agree.
00:20:25.175 --> 00:20:32.398
You could see visually, see two people happy and then just melt down on screen.
00:20:32.398 --> 00:20:35.068
That was what was so crazy about it.
00:20:35.810 --> 00:20:48.109
Yeah, and it was so raw and it was so real and it was the shadow side of life which we all have and we get fascinated when we see it in reality.
00:20:48.130 --> 00:20:49.830
We get fascinated when we see it in reality.
00:20:49.830 --> 00:20:51.571
I know People were almost obsessed with it.
00:20:51.571 --> 00:21:00.557
I mean all content creators that next day scrapped what they were doing, whether they were in the love space or not, and were covering it.
00:21:00.617 --> 00:21:02.838
I know I didn't cover it you didn't?
00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:04.740
Yeah, I was wondering.
00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:05.621
I didn't cover it.
00:21:05.760 --> 00:21:09.403
That's interesting because you cover everything, I cover everything.
00:21:16.545 --> 00:21:16.721
Yeah, wondering, I didn't cover it.
00:21:16.721 --> 00:21:17.155
That's interesting, because you cover everything, you cover, I cover everything.
00:21:17.155 --> 00:21:19.068
Yeah, I just, and maybe because of what has happened to me, I didn't feel right to exploit it.
00:21:19.068 --> 00:21:19.086
I don't know.
00:21:19.086 --> 00:21:23.330
We're having an intelligent conversation about it, without judgment, and we're trying to deconstruct it.
00:21:23.912 --> 00:21:27.969
I think that's different I agree that's different when I'm not judging anybody who use it.
00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:29.535
That's the beauty of social media.
00:21:29.535 --> 00:21:31.413
It's freedom and it's creativity.
00:21:31.413 --> 00:21:36.917
I just saw it and I was going to do something and I was like you know what?
00:21:36.917 --> 00:21:38.647
No, I don't.
00:21:38.647 --> 00:21:39.349
I didn't want to do it.
00:21:39.349 --> 00:21:41.497
Yeah, Cover everything.
00:21:41.704 --> 00:21:52.087
Well, I know you cover everything and I love your content and I love your book and I watch it all and I think you're the best of the best and your story is unbelievable.
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