May 30, 2025
You're Not a Body with a Soul, You're a Soul with a Body with Aaron Ash
Send us a text As many may know, May is mental health awareness month. However, what still needs more conversation about mental health is the fact that men too have mental health challenges. Men too deserve to share their stories and be heard. Men too deserve to be vulnerable without being told to "man up" or "suck it up." Aaron Ash bravely shares his challenges of having undergone complex trauma through incidents with his family. As a lot of people tend to do, Aaron tried to find solac...
As many may know, May is mental health awareness month. However, what still needs more conversation about mental health is the fact that men too have mental health challenges. Men too deserve to share their stories and be heard. Men too deserve to be vulnerable without being told to "man up" or "suck it up."
Aaron Ash bravely shares his challenges of having undergone complex trauma through incidents with his family. As a lot of people tend to do, Aaron tried to find solace in chasing extrinsic things versus turning the mirror to face inwards. However, once Aaron began his healing journey and took the brave step of turning the mirror inwards, the real magic began. Aaron shares his healing journey, gives valuable insight to lessons he gained along the way, and also is a co-host of No Streetlights Podcast where he turned his pain into a mission to help others be heard, seen, believed, and understood when it came to mental health and challenges people face.
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe to On the Spectrum with Sonia podcast. Visit nostreetlightsorg.com to learn more about Aaron's work or listen to No Streetlights Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00 - Welcome and Introduction
02:24 - Aaron's Mental Health Journey
06:40 - Complex Trauma and Coping Mechanisms
14:30 - Finding Faith After Spiritual Injury
26:22 - Military Service and Personal Growth
29:52 - Creating No Streetlights Podcast
35:45 - Final Advice and Where to Follow
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Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia, a podcast where we discuss autism, mental health and highlight any inspirational stories or anybody who's overcome any adversity to leave the audience feeling connected, empowered, encouraged and filled with hope and love, especially in a world that tries to disconnect us on a daily.
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As many of you may know, may is Mental Health Awareness Month, and with us today I have a very special guest whom I absolutely adore and absolutely adored being on his podcast Aaron Ash.
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Aaron Ash and his friend both host the podcast no Street Lights Podcast with Tim Bounikardi, and they are dedicated to mental health and advocating for mental health and discussing the topics that need to be discussed around mental health.
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Now, when we discuss mental health, a lot of times we don't.
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You know.
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It's starting to become somewhat recognized now about men's mental health, but there is a long way still to go with that conversation, and the more we can understand that mental health is not gender indiscriminate, the further along we can advance in understanding mental health.
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So, with that being said and without further ado, let's please welcome Aaron to the show.
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Aaron, I am so happy you're here.
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Thank you, thank you so much.
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Thank you everyone for having me.
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Sonia, I'm, I'm honored.
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Oh, thank you so much.
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I'm honored.
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I've been waiting for this for months, oh my God, so, um.
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So tell us a little bit now.
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Like you know, you do this podcast, no Streetlights podcast, and you discuss mental health quite a bit on your podcast.
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As it is dedicated to that subject, I want to hear from you what is your personal relationship to mental health and how does, how did that impact you on a personal level?
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That's a big question.
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Mental health has always been a part of my journey and my story.
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You know I had, you know, kind of a rough childhood, like most people nowadays.
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You know a lot of complex trauma and learning and growing and you know some real suffering in there.
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Uh, then I joined the military.
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I did very well, because if you're really good at suffering you'll do really well in the military Uh, but then I got out after sustaining some injuries and having, uh, some mental health problems that resulted from that.
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So I've been a disabled vet for three years now.
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I want to say so I have a very intimate relationship with mental health because I go through my own adversities.
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My beautiful wife has her own adversity, she goes through, and everyone around me has their own struggles.
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So we kind of made this platform to share perspectives and help people get through the things that we've gone through, to kind of shortcut some of that painful learning.
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When did you realize and well, first I want to say thank you for your services and thank you for serving and I appreciate you and all you've done when did you start realizing that you had complex trauma Like?
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When did it like hit you that what I'm going through or what I've been through, is not quote normal end quote?
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I've always been somehow an introvert and extrovert at the same time.
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So you know I present very extroverted but I carry a lot of the introvert qualities, like the introspection, retrospection, all of that and.
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I remember, you know, even being a kid and going through stuff and being like this isn't normal, this is not how things are supposed to go, and so I knew something was kind of up.
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But then, as I've learned and grown throughout my life, I keep learning more about complex trauma and healing and wellness and I'm like, oh, that's why that fell off, because that was trauma.
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If you're comfortable but, as I heal, everyone around me, yeah.
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No, but if you're comfortable sharing like what, was there any particular moment that you could look back on and be like wait a minute, this is not comfortable.
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This is not comfortable.
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This is not right.
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This is not normal.
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This is not what should be happening Like.
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Is there any particular instance that you'd feel comfortable sharing with the audience so that people can have a better understanding?
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I'll share one of the most relatable ones, because I think everyone will identify with this.
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I remember being pretty young living on 23rd Street in Fairview, across from Mount Olivet Cemetery in Parkersburg a place I still pass every day on my drive and I remember my mother and my sister having a huge blow up fight because of everything they've been through, and I remember listening to my mother cry herself to sleep and I was like damn, this moment is going to suck for the rest of my life.
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So I think we've all seen our parents go through something that impacted us very deeply and oftentimes that's because they weren't given the proper tools.
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So my cohost, tim Bernicardi, is very passionate about adding tools to the tool shed, so anyone can go to Tim's tool shed to find the tool they need to heal from what they've gone through.
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I can definitely empathize with that one for sure.
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And watching my parents go through things, watching my brother when he was alive go through things, and definitely it leaves quite an impact on you.
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It's like watching a movie.
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It's kind of like watching a movie where it's like you know, like certain scenes are very poignant and you will always remember that from that movie and, identifying with that movie, you always remember that scene Right, and it definitely leaves that kind of indelible mark on you when you watch these things happen.
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So for you, I was wondering then too, like what were your coping mechanisms at that time when you had witnessed what you'd witnessed, like the blow up fight between your sister and your mom and hearing her cry herself to sleep, as well as other instances that may have happened as well?
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Yeah.
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So I've had many coping mechanisms throughout my life, both good and bad, like most people.
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I'm really happy that I have been conscious the entire time so that I can kind of identify and try and learn from the experience.
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Like most guys who have had complex trauma, I've had a difficult time, a difficult relationship, with adult entertainment.
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You know, I've searched for love through physical intimacy, which that's not what love is, that's, you know, physical intimacy.
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They're two different things.
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You know I've had struggles with faith.
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I've had struggles with not getting out of bed for six months except to do like the bare minimum stuff to sustain life.
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I think I may have lost a lot of coping mechanisms but I found some great ones, like working out, going kung fu, meditating, you know, studying buddhism.
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I've come up against a lot but I've learned a lot and grown a lot, because it's either get better or get worse, because often times in our life staying the same feels insufferable.
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So you get to choose if you go up or down.
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Right, right.
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And so it seems like you know, for you it was just like at one point you were just trying to fill a void in your life by seeking out whether it is, you know, going out and hooking up or whatever it may be that you were doing and going and you know chasing.
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It was like you were kind of like chasing for something Most people are.
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And most people are.
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And when did you realize that what you were doing wasn't working for you?
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So that's a very difficult question, man.
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You're so good at this, you should have a podcast, sonia.
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So the time that I realized I needed real change, man, that is such a great question I mean again being conscious and aware and awake, you realize.
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You know, even in those moments of like, this isn't right.
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You should be looking towards the solution.
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How do I fix this?
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How do I get to something better?
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And you know, a lot of times that's through or sorry.
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Every time it has to be through an internal journey, because you're the only thing you can affect, you're the only part of your story that you get to write.
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So I guess, just all throughout my life, I've learned more and more and become a better and better author.
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So I'm trying to help other people see that they can choose the dream they're living.
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What was it like for you to go internally the first time and do a deep dive?
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Terrifying.
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Most of the times it's terrifying, but it's always worth it.
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And it's so important that people understand that.
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You know internal work is so important in this, in the process of healing and discovering.
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Because you know I can very much empathize with your story as well.
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I know like I used to binge eat a lot when I lived in New York City.
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There was this one Indian restaurant I used to go to and frequent all the time it was in the Upper West Side and they had the best finger-licking good Indian food.
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But I'll tell you this I would get a good meal I'd order I don't know if you're familiar with Indian food or not, but I'd order the naan.
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I'd order.
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It's called paneer.
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Yep.
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But what kind of paneer uh, did you order?
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Like the garlic, cheesy, the spinach no, I ordered the um the paneer tikka, which is like in the tomato paste paneer, which is like freaking amazing.
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Oh, my god, if I keep talking, I might I don't know want to eat it again.
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I might want to start eating it.
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Um, then there's yogurt that I had, because you know how people like to eat with yogurt, and then, um, rice that I would go next door to, and then I also had four glasses of wine while I had dinner then, and then then I would go next door to this, the 16 handles frozen yogurt place and get that it as well, because I was, and this definitely was at a time when I really wasn't happy being in the legal profession.
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I was really wanting to leave.
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I was scared to leave because I was so afraid of the ramifications from my parents.
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I was super afraid to, you know, face outcomes to a point where, honestly, my health was getting damaged, you know, and my body was feeling it, and I honestly had to make the choice eventually, because I started feeling so sick.
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You know, eventually I was getting chest pain.
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You know, I was overweight big time, no matter what I was doing to work out.
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You know, you can't out train a bad diet, you can't out train bad habits, right?
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So I mean, you know, and I just eventually had to make that decision and of course did I get the pushback and everything Absolutely, but leaving was the best thing for me, you know, and that was scary and you know I can appreciate when you say it was scary.
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Going in there the first time and doing the work like that it's scary.
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Anyone who's done any amount of work recognizes that very simple fact.
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Um, who's done any amount of work recognizes that very simple fact.
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Um, a lot of the woo-woo circles they talk, you know the the half committed creators talk about, um, how, like all light work is bs, you have to do shadow work and you can't be healed until you find the integration of the shadow and stuff.
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And, uh, I find it very silly because the way that everything's connected, if you choose to learn all of the light, you can then recognize all of the dark.
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If you know all of column A, you see something else you're like oh, that's column B.
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So even whenever we are doing light work trying to find happiness and love and compassion, even whenever we are doing light work trying to find happiness and love and compassion, we understand the opposite.
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So what you were doing, we call or I've taken to calling it loving yourself to death, having so much going on that you have to reward yourself constantly in a negative way.
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And so many people do this all the time, and you yourself have learned that I would rather be able to move my body.
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So whenever you feel that overwhelming desire towards hunger that would define like the Pratons in Buddhist and some Indian culture.
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You realize I'm a human being.
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I want to learn and grow from this experience, so I get to choose what I do right now, and our good friend Lauren McNeese, in her episode, I think, shared with us something that helped me realize what free will really is, and she said it's choosing.
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I might or might not engage with this behavior that's welling up for me, and really it's in that nuance that we find the space to grow in our lives right, and I was having a conversation with if, uh, the last guest I had on my show, andrea andre, and we were talking about you know, know the soul, you know going to your point, about you know, like having Buddha's, you know philosophy, and we were talking about the idea that the soul moves on once our time in this body is finished, right, and that, because the body may finish but the soul doesn't finish, and we were talking about this idea that you know what it's, you know.
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Similar thing, that you know what you in this life right, you want to learn, you want to heal, you want to grow, right, and things that happen to you in this life, I mean you, I mean you damage your body but not your soul, right, eventually, right, like, in some ways, you damn it, because your soul, you know, you're always going to constantly learn and grow, heal.
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You know that's a work in progress and I do believe that the soul can hurt.
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But at the same time, there, you know, the soul is resilient in its ways too, in some ways right, in that it's always searching.
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Yeah, I think you're talking a lot about karma and samsara right now, and I feel like we really need to help the people who think they're a body with a soul and don't realize they're a soul with a body.
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They become so attached to all this stuff and they seek after so much, like, if this body is impermanent but our soul isn't, what does that mean we get to take with us?
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We get to take with us our karma.
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We don't get to take our house.
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We don't get to take our physical fitness.
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We don't get to take our house.
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We don't get to take our physical fitness.
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We don't get to take our sickness that we've relied on to be a victim our whole life.
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We can only take the results of our actions.
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So then you have to choose to do the best thing for your soul.
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You know, and I think you point that out so very well no, I think you did a good job explaining it as well.
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Um, you know, you said that you, you know, suffered in, you know spiritually, and you know spiritual injury is another place that people this is people mentioned this term before to me in conversations, and there are a lot of people who suffer spiritually when they're in the thick of it.
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How are you able to come to spirituality?
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Because you said that you had suffered and you had somehow found your way back in.
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What was your journey like and what could you, you know, for people who may be also contemplating about faith and spirituality and you know, of course, this is not, we're not trying to you know, preach, you know a certain denomination or pay taxes to a certain denomination or religion here, but how would you say, like you know, using your experiences and sharing what you've been through, what could you also kind of help other people with?
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In that sense?
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So the masterminds and the students ready.
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I've had a very complicated journey, but that's because that's what my soul signed up for and kind of like where I am.
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As far as spirituality goes.
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I think a lot of people are waking up to realizing that religion is supposed to be something you do, not something you believe.
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So you know, I was raised Christian.
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I've explored tons of religions across the world, but Buddhism is more a philosophy and active practice.
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So sometimes I say I'm a Christian practicing Buddhism or I'm a Buddhist practicing Christianity, because Buddhism tells you how to find what's right for you and what's right in your heart and your soul, whether that's Theravada practice, metta meditation or whatever.
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But I think you can use a lot of Buddhist technologies to unlock whatever your truth is, whatever you believe in, you can use the Buddhist texts as a way of advancing your spiritual study, because you know, I listened to the Tibetan Book of the Dead and the Dhammapada and the Bible and I research Islam, islam and a ton of other stuff the Quran coming, hopefully, in the mail soon.
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But all religions say you should do love and then Buddhism just helps you go within to discover what that love looks like for you.
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I hope that helps someone.
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Am I mad rambling?
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No, no, no, it's very interesting what you shared, but I was just wondering, though, too like if somebody you know like you had you found this journey right, that, okay, you were able to pick up Buddhism as a way to supplement what your faith was and Christianity as a way to kind of help it kind of connect in some ways.
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Because what I'm hearing is that connection.
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But for people who are struggling in general and just gave up on faith in general, or for people who you took to this, you know, you were able to find this, what about if somebody's struggling to even, you know, let's say, given up on faith altogether, because they're in the thick of it, right, and just in a general sense, and they're, you know, like, and let's say, they're like how, how did you do this?
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How did you find faith?
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I'm like, and let's say, they're like how, how did you do this?
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How did you find faith?
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I'm like, if my life is such trash?
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Yeah.
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So I have this blessing and curse where I see things very, very clearly and I'm able to summarize very quickly.
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So at on our show and in our lives, we see three pillars to your health your physical health, your mental health and your spiritual health.
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And we always list them in that order because it's so easy to help your body and then it's a little harder to fix your mind and then it's a little harder to fix your soul.
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So if you're at a place to where physical health is the only thing you can focus on, do physical health things, you know, go out in the woods a little bit, pet a dog, you know whatever you need to physically do.
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And then, once you get physically healthy enough, you can advance your mental health.
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You can look into emotional, iq, moral injury, you know, reparentification, if you're into professional stuff, like you know Sonia Chan.
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But then as you progress, you're going to feel what's lacking, and that's going to be your spiritual health.
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You can say, okay, I've helped my body, I've helped my mind, but there's still something missing.
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There's still something that isn't right.
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So then you need to find your faith, whatever that is, whether I've got a good friend of mine we did an episode with Nick Miller, who his faith is like veganism, the way he's chosen to advance his soul's karma is saying I'm not going to hurt anything alive, I'm only going to consume.
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You know quote-unquote non-living stuff.
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Which sick that to consume.
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You know, quote-unquote non-living stuff um, which sick that.
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That is a man with a purpose.
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So once you get your body straight and your mind straight, then you can really kind of find and start to fulfill your purpose interesting that you pointed this, uh, professional realm of it, because in clinical mental health counseling we use what's called the holistic model, where we look at all those pillars like mentally, physically, spiritually, financially.
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You know, we look at like relationships in your life, right and like you know, looking at it as, versus looking at it from a medical model where it's more, okay, you've got depression, treat, treat, treat, right, you, you know.
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And from the holistic model is we're looking to help a person live their best life.
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You know.
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So, I think it's so, it's like you know, it's very remnant to you know, I think it's very remnant to um, using that holistic model, even in your approach with your podcast.
00:24:26.133 --> 00:24:47.121
And one of the things that you know I really enjoyed about your podcast, I'll say, is the actual emotion that you display when you are interviewing your guests, because I honestly felt like when I was on your show, I felt like we could really spend some time.
00:24:47.221 --> 00:25:04.025
If we wanted to scream, we could scream together and do a screaming match, or we could cry together or we could do whatever together, right, like, I felt like that and from you and I could tell that you are very in tuned with your emotions, you're very much in tune with that.
00:25:04.025 --> 00:25:12.829
You know just the whole idea of, like you know, the intertwinement of physical, mental, spiritual health.
00:25:12.829 --> 00:25:21.964
You know, and I could feel that even when people come and talk to you on your show, I'm pretty sure I mean I can't speak for all of them, but I know for myself, I felt that with you.
00:25:24.730 --> 00:25:45.294
Yeah, in order for people to feel comfortable enough to get vulnerable and to, you know, learn something, something, they have to be sitting with a friend, and so tim and I have kind of decided that we want to be everyone's friend, even someone who believes in some abhorrent stuff that we're totally against.
00:25:45.294 --> 00:26:03.573
We've had a lot of guests come on that we disagree with, but we need to hear you, we need to see you and we need to care, because that's the only way we get to a real place of understanding, which you can only love and care about someone if you understand that.
00:26:03.573 --> 00:26:12.890
Otherwise, you're just caring for this idea you have in your head so how do you feel?
00:26:12.910 --> 00:26:25.335
like you know, at the time when you enrolled to serve, you know where were you on your mental health and spiritual journey as versus after you finished service.
00:26:27.141 --> 00:26:31.779
Um, there's a very common joke for all service members.
00:26:31.779 --> 00:26:38.294
Uh, we all kind of look at our certain years in service kind of like dog years.
00:26:38.294 --> 00:26:56.931
So I was in a really rough spot when I joined up, you know, and I had to go through a lot of suffering to find the few crumbs of wisdom I have.
00:26:56.931 --> 00:27:06.150
But that's the nature of this experience Wisdom comes from real lived experience.
00:27:06.150 --> 00:27:13.180
Knowledge only gets you so far and you have to do it to really understand the thing completely.
00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:17.317
You have to do it to really understand the thing completely.
00:27:26.523 --> 00:27:30.773
So you know my nine years before I got medically retired, really that for me I always saw every year in the service about three years outside.
00:27:30.773 --> 00:27:33.220
So to me it feels like I had 27 years of service.
00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:37.788
So I really feel like I grew in 27 knowledge, 27 knowledge years, or whatever you want to call it in those nine years.
00:27:37.788 --> 00:27:40.134
So I've learned a lot, I've grown a lot.
00:27:40.134 --> 00:27:48.188
I had a major crux, a major difficult time when I got out.
00:27:48.188 --> 00:27:51.146
But the bigger the challenge, the bigger the reward.
00:27:51.146 --> 00:28:08.074
So if you're suffering and you've been suffering, just think about how rewarding it's going to be when you overcome that what motivated you to keep going when you were in the thick of it?
00:28:10.701 --> 00:28:12.990
I have a very simple fighter's mindset.
00:28:12.990 --> 00:28:20.128
So if you stop fighting, you lose, but if you keep fighting, you might win eventually.
00:28:20.128 --> 00:28:34.763
You know, I learned that not only from my martial arts master who we've had on the show and will be coming back soon, uh but and my mother, who I watched go through all the adversity that you can imagine from the 10 second story.
00:28:34.763 --> 00:28:35.705
I already told about her.
00:28:35.705 --> 00:28:59.680
Um, just every single day, growing up in a place that has been stricken by poverty and you know the opioid epidemic and everything, you just see everyone around you struggling for whatever they can eke out, and that really inspires you if you look around and realize everyone around you is also fighting tooth and nail.
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:11.299
So I guess I decided that I wanted to be the best fighter I could be, and that doesn't just mean being the best physical fighter or the best mental fighter or the best spiritual fighter.
00:29:11.299 --> 00:29:17.651
You have to master all three disciplines before you can really consider yourself a learner.
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:36.204
How did you start your podcast and what then kind of, how did this kind of come about no streetlights podcast?
00:29:36.204 --> 00:29:52.271
Because you know you've taken, because it seems like you know you really grew a lot in that journey that you had with your mental health, with your spiritual and your physical health, and you know it seems like you made it a mission to give back to others.
00:29:52.271 --> 00:29:56.132
So I'm just wondering then where, like how did this come about?
00:29:56.132 --> 00:30:01.085
How did you meet Tim, how did you both start this up and how did you come up with this idea?
00:30:04.172 --> 00:30:06.155
Tim and I met when we were about 12 years old.
00:30:06.155 --> 00:30:15.242
He launched a soccer ball into my groin in gym class and then apologized profusely and I was like nah, man, it's cool, these things happen.
00:30:15.242 --> 00:30:18.391
Because I had played soccer, I knew that indeed, these things do happen.
00:30:18.391 --> 00:30:22.208
And then in the locker room your mama jokes were really popular.
00:30:22.208 --> 00:30:23.550
So he hit me with your mama joke.
00:30:23.550 --> 00:30:24.864
I didn't know what to say.
00:30:24.864 --> 00:30:25.688
So I said your, your dad.
00:30:25.688 --> 00:30:29.521
And I found out right then and there that his dad had died two years previously.
00:30:29.521 --> 00:30:35.653
So I apologized profusely and he was like no, I'm in a school, you didn't know.
00:30:35.653 --> 00:30:40.711
And our friendship kind of grew from there, just from being compassionate once to each other.
00:30:42.063 --> 00:30:56.171
And then 20 years has elapsed and about about two years ago Tim and I realized we had gone through enough suffering and we still had enough love and caring in our heart to help the people who are going through any of the things we went through.
00:30:56.171 --> 00:31:13.153
And I had vast enough connections after traveling the world several times over that if we needed to talk about something like ASD, I knew I could find somebody who could really share what it's like growing up on the spectrum.
00:31:13.153 --> 00:31:30.588
So we found you and we shared your story so that every one of our friends, all the 10,000 subscribers we have those who know someone who's on the spectrum, which is all 10,000 of those people they can now relate better, which means they can now love better.
00:31:30.588 --> 00:31:57.578
So people talk about the episodes being a little disjointed, but every single episode is about love and understanding and once people have listened to a few episodes they kind of get it and then they look forward to each new topic or each new guest and be like okay, cool, how am I going to learn to love this week?
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:19.124
And you're doing such an amazing job with spreading that message, because I remember listening to a few of your episodes while working out one day and I was just really, you know, so proud of you and you know how both of you really you and Tim and really was loving every bit of your podcast episode.
00:32:19.124 --> 00:32:22.111
Because I'm like you know what, you know, these people get it.
00:32:22.111 --> 00:32:28.281
I'm like these guys get it and honestly I'm going to say this you and Tim.
00:32:28.383 --> 00:32:42.374
I've met some male therapists before who are in the mental health profession and they let's just put it this way they could learn several lessons from you and Tim.
00:32:42.374 --> 00:32:44.108
Let's just be honest, they could learn several lessons from you and Tim.
00:32:44.108 --> 00:32:46.221
Oh, my, just be honest, they could learn several lessons from you and Tim.
00:32:46.221 --> 00:32:48.007
Oh, my gosh, they were.
00:32:48.007 --> 00:32:54.965
It's funny how you can get people that can come into the mental health profession and be completely out of touch.
00:32:54.965 --> 00:33:01.048
So, yes, and you guys are more in touch than probably many, many therapists out there.
00:33:01.048 --> 00:33:05.987
So I just want to say I mean kudos to you guys.
00:33:05.987 --> 00:33:09.743
I mean I'm so proud of you, so happy for you, so proud of what you're doing.
00:33:11.185 --> 00:33:17.259
Thank you and I I'm so humbled to hear that.
00:33:17.259 --> 00:33:20.528
But I need so I need to throw in a disclaimer or something.
00:33:20.528 --> 00:33:27.329
I'm just a normal guy, so every other normal guy out there can easily do this.
00:33:27.329 --> 00:33:29.643
All they have to do is listen and care.
00:33:29.643 --> 00:33:41.772
I think most men are pre-wired to be solution focused and most of the time people are going to figure it out.
00:33:41.772 --> 00:33:44.398
So it's really important to recognize.
00:33:44.398 --> 00:33:45.865
Most of the time people just need you to listen.
00:33:45.865 --> 00:33:50.451
If they need you to solve a problem, they'll come to you once you've listened enough.
00:33:50.451 --> 00:34:04.808
And that's kind of what I'm learning is I have so many huge ways I want to change the world, but first I have to sit back and listen, otherwise, you know you're kind of just beating your head against the wall.
00:34:04.808 --> 00:34:08.347
Otherwise, you know you're kind of just beating your head against the wall.
00:34:08.367 --> 00:34:20.289
Listening is a very powerful tool, you know, and we learn a lot more when we're listening and if we're paying attention, and that's what's needed.
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