March 29, 2025
EndoDNA....Using Genetic Testing to Guide your Health
What if your DNA could guide you on how to better handle your health? What if genetic testing could guide you on how certain medications would work? Len May, founder and CEO of EndoDNA, does just that: helps people navigate their health through genetic testing.
The road to lead Len May to where he is today has been anything but easy. Len May was kicked out of his home when he was in his later teens for recreational use of cannabis. Len's parents strongly frowned upon his use of cannabis.Len discusses being prescribed medication for ADHD, but he reported the feelings of numbness while taking the medication, even though he was able to focus. Apart from noticing the difference in how different chemical substances interacted with how he was able to feel, Len May also paid keen attention to how his mother and grandmother would have bottles of pills and would consult with doctors about how different medications would interact with other things. Len resorted to couch surfing before finding a more stable place. He went to Temple University with a major in Physical Therapy, but he was an entrepreneur at heart. However, all of his education and personal experiences eventually all tied into Len May's interest into what he does today.
Len May's entrepreneurial spirit led him to eventually start his business after first working with the start up of an alternative pharmaceutical company. What he observed while working at the alternative pharmaceutical company led Len May to start his own company in 2017: EndoDNA.
The spirit of EndoDNA is to help patients understand their unique health challenges and provides targeted solutions. They are patented with the use of DNA testing to see how it affects the endocannabinoid system: the part responsible for regulating bodily functions. The study of the interplay with how a person's unique DNA affects the endocannabinoid system tells a whole story in and of itself.
Ready to discover what your DNA reveals about your health? Visit endodna.com to learn more about genetic testing options or connect with Len May through his podcast "Everything is Personal" and his book "Making Cannabis Personal." Your path to optimal wellness might be hidden in your genetic code—isn't it time you unlocked its secrets?
00:00 - Meeting Len May: From Adversity to Innovation
09:14 - Personal Journey: Finding Alternative Solutions
16:07 - From Tower Records to Genetic Testing
28:13 - The Science of EndoDNA and Personalized Medicine
35:33 - Stress, Genetics, and the Endocannabinoid System
43:42 - Success Stories and Life-Changing Results
WEBVTT
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Hello everyone and welcome to today's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia, a podcast where we discuss autism spectrum mental health challenges and highlight any stories of anybody who's overcome any significant adversity to help the audience feeling hoped, encouraged, loved and connected, especially in a world that tries to disconnect us on a daily.
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Today we have a very special guest, len May, who is the CEO and founder of EndoDNA.
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He is here because of his own connections, in some ways, to people who have someone on the autism spectrum in his line of work, and he himself has overcome some adversity being kicked out of his house at 17 and being left to find his way and so today he's here to share his story.
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So let's please welcome Len Len.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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Thank you, sonia, I appreciate it.
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So, len, why don't you tell us a little bit about you, your upbringing, you know like, just walk us through a little bit.
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Where are you from?
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Yeah, so I was born in Lithuania, which, when I was born, it was under the Soviet Union control.
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I was born, it was under the Soviet Union control and my family immigrated to the US when I was six and we settled in Philadelphia.
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So I came with my parents, and my mom's parents as well, and in the first year of being in the US my grandfather had a stroke and he proceeded to have multiple strokes and then a very large man 6'3", 300 pounds, something like that and then he started to become a shell of himself and lost this ability to walk, basically, and talk.
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And I would never forget my mom, my grandmother, sitting at the table with doctors, with bags of pills and constantly changing and saying you know, this interacts with this and this.
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So I always had this fear that you know the side effects of the medications were creating some of these conditions that he was, you know, suffering from.
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So I always kept that in the back of my mind and the kind of kid I was, I would sit in class and the teacher would call me.
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My brain would be elsewhere, so I would daydream and I got diagnosed with attention deficit disorder and put on prescription medication.
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I can't say it didn't work.
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It depends on how you define work.
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So it did help me to focus, but it removed any sense of self.
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So there was no feeling.
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It was a numb kind of going through the motions.
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I really didn't like that.
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And it was interesting because I was hanging out with some older kids before school and they asked me if I wanted to smoke a cigarette.
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I was like cool, I'm hanging out with the older kids before school and they asked me if I wanted to smoke a cigarette.
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I was like cool, I'm hanging out with the older kids, there's a cigarette.
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I never questioned why it was only one cigarette, but they ended up passing the cigarette to me and I took a drag.
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It didn't taste like the cigarette that I'm used to as I was dabbling in that and then took another one, maybe coughed, and they were laughing at me.
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I was like what?
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And they put cannabis in the cigarette.
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So I consumed some cannabis, went back to class and I'm not advocating that everybody should do this under, maybe, physician supervision, but all the windows that are in my head narrowed and I could focus.
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So it became sort of my go-to medicine.
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I stopped taking all the prescription medication and, as you were mentioning Sonia, my parents would catch me and they were very anti-drugs, even though prescription medication were okay bags of them but plant medicine was not.
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So at some point they ended up calling the police on me, calling the cops trying to have me arrested and then kicking me out of the house and that sort of started my journey on to trying to find out health and wellness, what's working for me.
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I got into the music business I was working in a place called Tower Records at the time and then working my way.
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Then finished high school, working my way through college and went to physical therapy school.
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I never worked as a physical therapist in my life, but I learned a lot about anatomy, physiology, what works, what doesn't work, and that's sort of my start in the corporate world, so to speak.
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So tell us a little bit about now.
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So you get kicked out at 17, finally, because your parents just put their foot down and said get out of here, we're done.
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How did you in the meantime then cope?
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Like, where were you living?
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Like, did you have to find an arrangement?
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What was going on with that?
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Great question.
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So the first few nights I actually I had $500.
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I had a car, it was my savings and I went to motel rooms so I would sleep on the top of the bed with my clothes because I didn't want to touch anything.
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There's motel rooms where you pay like $25 to stay in a motel room one of those.
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And then my girlfriend the girl I was seeing at the time she asked her parents if I could crash at their house.
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They let me stay for a little while, but then they said I have to go.
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So I would couch surf at different friends' houses.
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And then my girlfriend's friend was going to Italy for a month and we ended up getting into her place because she was going to be gone for a month and staying there basically for a month.
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Then at some point my grandmother let me crash on her couch.
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So I did that.
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Then, when I got my job at Tower Records, she gave me the security deposit money to get my own apartment.
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I got my own apartment and live in a basement apartment where every single time it would rain, half it would flood.
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I'd call the office, they would come in, they would suck out the water, but it would still mold underneath all the carpet and I had every single kind of roadshow you can imagine.
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So it was interesting, but it was all I could afford at the time.
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Power Records is such a famous record store.
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I remember in 2015, there was a whole movie made about it this Too Shall Pass where they had acclaimed musicians discuss, I think, from what I understood, of what the movie was, but it was just like.
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So what was it like to work then in a place where you know that was huge, and where was the tower records that you worked in?
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in philadelphia, okay, so I mean it was the greatest job I ever had.
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If you're a music person, tower records was the best record store yes, like that I can and I would shop there and I got became a cashier and when I got my job and then I was a music buyer.
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And one of the things that I think was unique to Tower Records that made it so interesting is they had different buyers for different stores in different regions that are local to that.
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So maybe the taste in Philadelphia was different than the taste in Los Angeles or somewhere in Alabama.
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So you could kind of sense what the local market was and that's what made it unique.
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I think the challenge with Tower Records is they were so not adapting technology and sort of had blinders on that.
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The Napster and all the different things put them out of business because they invested People would come in to Tower Records and the exposure was amazing to all kinds of music.
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That's why I have music behind me.
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I have a huge record collection.
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I have a huge CD collection.
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I was getting paid $7 an hour but because I got promoted $7.50 an hour.
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But because you have record label people that would say, hey, if you buy more of this we'll give you tickets to this show.
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So you get all these different perks of the job, you get music, you get concerts where you're still living, making very little money, but it was an incredible opportunity to learn a lot about music and when you're a music buyer you build these connections.
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But the thing that they invested in this people come in and hum, do you know the song?
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It goes blah, blah, blah, blah, and you have to know.
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So they invested in this machine called the Muse machine, which was basically you can search inventory by keywords.
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But they never invested in anything to do with technology streaming technology, the internet kind of stuff.
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So I think that really hurt them to any song you want at any time you want, and I think the records I mean.
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Yes, I think it's like one of those things now where it's like a timepiece from the past or like a luxury kind of collectible item.
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I don't know, you can't replace vinyl.
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Though when vinyl was not popular, you can buy records 50 cents at different swap meets and flea markets.
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Now those same records are $20, $30.
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So vinyl is back.
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Vinyl is back in a big way.
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It's expensive and I think the kids are starting to find vinyl again because there's nothing they take in a record, like opening it up, looking at the liner notes.
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You can't do that with Spotify, with streaming, and it's a different experience.
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I know it definitely is a different experience.
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I still remember having those as a kid, those vinyl records, and putting it on in the record player and dancing around my house to it.
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You know, like, you know, those things, it's definitely one of those.
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What I mean by like classic, right, I mean those things are just, you know.
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I think that definitely now, the way music is being out now, a lot is changing, even now with like AI and how that's also changing the landscape too, of music.
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But you know what I meant by timeless, you know, is that it's just, those are things that don't go away, right, like the vinyl, like the record, those nostalgic, the nostalgia of it too, too, that that's something that can't be replaced either sure yeah, so you were worked at tap, you were working at tower records.
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You got a security deposit into a house that you lived in in the basement, but unfortunately with the rains and the flood, so that was never fun.
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Um, you were.
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So how long then you went?
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You said you went to college yeah, I went to company university.
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I studied, you know my, my focus was physical therapy, but I I was an entrepreneur.
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So you know, I opened up a music company.
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After tower records uh closed, uh calledday Music and I was selling like hard to find CDs or like German only or Japan only prints.
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And my girlfriend at the time, who's now my ex-wife, he's like you have to get a real job.
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So I went to work for Price Waterhouse.
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I used to have really long hair, earrings.
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I had to put my hair in a ponytail, take out my earrings, put on the suit and tie and wear a mask.
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Basically that wasn't me for a while.
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Then I went to work for a venture capital company, went to work for another consulting company, did on-site, offshore consulting.
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Then I decided that I'm interested in real estate.
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So I left and got into real estate.
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I became a commercial real estate broker and I became the managing director of Keller Williams Commercial and moved to Los Angeles from Philadelphia and in the first year of living here or so separated, then got a divorce.
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But I was sitting in a real estate office and these guys came, came in and they were looking to open up an alternative pharmacy.
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They were saying.
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So the person that was talking to them said, hey, can you talk to them?
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And it ended up that they wanted to open up a dispensary and this is 2009, 2010, under a SB 420.
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And so there was a medical law in California for cannabis.
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So I helped them.
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I asked them where is your paperwork?
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They didn't have anything and they offered me a partnership.
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So I became a partner in a dispensary in Orange County called Kush Kingdom.
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We ended up opening up four more of those, but one of the things I started seeing was two people will consume the same chemical variety of phytocannabinoids and have a completely different experience.
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So in that I started, like my ADD kicked in where I had to hyper focus and I found a video by a gentleman named Kevin McKernan who genetically sequenced a plant.
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So, long story a little bit longer.
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I went and met with Kevin, started working with a company called Medicinal Genomics, where I would travel the country, get plant material from different growers, bring it to my lab, extract the DNA, sequence it, and we created the first genetic library of chemical varieties, called Canopedia with a K, and put it on the blockchain.
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Now the parent company of medicinal genomics was called Cortagen Life Sciences and they did pharmacogenomics testing, so testing on how to see how different drugs affect individuals' bodies metabolism and then so my idea was we have plant genetics here, we have human genetics here.
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Let's bring those two together and create a personalized experience for people using, you know, their phytocannabinoids and they really didn't have an interest in it.
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They shut down the human side.
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So that's when we launched EndoDNA in 2017.
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And we launched EndoDNA in 2017.
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So part of your work, then, is that you're studying, you do more of the genetics testing kind of work.
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Correct Is that you are looking at how certain things know, perhaps, like even supplements and vitamins also could affect a person, because not everybody is meant to take the same, correct?
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Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
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So in the beginning, when we first started the endocannabinoid system test so we have a patent on the use of DNA to make recommendations associated with the endocannabinoid system so that is what we started in and what we did was we approached a company called Illumina.
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So Illumina created a custom chip for us.
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So we sequenced about 700,000 genetic biomarkers, which are called SNPs single nucleotide polymorphisms.
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It's HIPAA GDPR compliant.
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It's a genetic test with a swab.
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You swab the answer of your cheek, you register, you send that sample to our lab, you log into your portal, you get your results.
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So you're looking at conditions.
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And when we met with the FDA they said what is the purpose of your test?
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We said to help people either mitigate or avoid a possible adverse event.
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So once we sequence you, we provide you your genetic predispositions and what you can do about that.
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So the way that I try to explain it is sort of your DNA is your life's GPS, so it'll show you where your potholes are in your road, where you have, it'll show you where your potholes are in your road, where you have traffic jams, et cetera, so you can take action to be able to mitigate the expression or avoid those potholes and DNA is interesting because you have 50% for your mother, 50% for your father, obviously, and some of them are, if you think about, a bunch of on-off switches.
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Some of them are turned on, so like our hair color, our eye color, our skin color, things of that nature but other genes are dormant and our lifestyle gets to turn those switches on or off.
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So what kind of things affect that?
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Are nutrition, the nutrients, the food that we put into our bodies?
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They can actually control the epigenetic expression, turning on the switches.
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So also exposure to pesticides, heavy metals they can affect that.
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Also our own neurochemistry, so what we excrete, like our cortisol levels, our adrenaline levels, they can change the epigenetic expression.
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So by looking at your genetic predisposition, creating a protocol or some sort of treatment plan that is specific to the individual, and then measuring how well that works, using biometric feedback, biomarkers of blood work, other things we can actually start using with AI, we can start using that to make better individual treatment plans for healthcare professionals.
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So they can say, all right, there's 100 people similar to Sonia that took this protocol and showed that it worked, it was efficacious.
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So this will be a suggestion for the healthcare professional to make a recommendation because you're absolutely right.
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Everybody metabolizes differently.
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Everybody can take different things.
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So when the doctor tells you take two of these and call me in the morning, well, why is it not four?
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Why is it not one?
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Why is it two?
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Because we metabolize things differently and there's a series of genes that are associated with that metabolism as well.
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Have you noticed any trends with any of the results that you've gotten from people who've submitted their DNA samples, like what have you noticed to be perhaps common themes or any you know common trends that you've picked were able to pick up on?
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yeah, I mean 99.9 percent of us are the same.
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It's a 0.1 percent that makes us different.
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And people that have certain genetic predispositions.
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Usually we put them in buckets, like people that have predispositions to stress and anxiety, and they don't deal with that stress, anxiety that gets triggered.
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Now, if they have a predisposition to something called bruxism, for instance, which is grinding your teeth or clenching your teeth, that gets expressed.
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So now their sleep cycle is challenged.
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So they can say we sleep for eight hours a night, but what is the quality of sleep?
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So if you start measuring your quality of sleep, they're on this hamster wheel.
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They're not getting their good delta theta sleep, so they're not getting their good delta theta sleep, so they're not getting their restful sleep.
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They're not getting the reset, so the agitation carries throughout the day and they're continuing their life, which definitely impacts other health conditions.
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So you can start putting people in these buckets based on, as you mentioned, those trends, but genetic predispositions to certain things they may or may not be doing.
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Metabolism is an interesting thing too.
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We have a series of genes called cytochrome, p450, cyp450.
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Each one of those genes produces an enzyme that helps us metabolize something.
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So there's a specific one for gluten.
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There's a specific one for lactose.
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These are the genes that you may be aware of.
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So if you and I'm not talking about celiac disease we're not a diagnostic for diseases but if you have an irritation or something happens where it's inflammatory when you're consuming gluten, well, maybe your gluten sensitivity that you're predisposed to is getting turned on.
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So these are the things that we can actually see in your genetics and then create a treatment plan that's specific, so you can avoid those sharp corners for yourself so what?
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so after you submit and you get this report of the gen, of the genetic testing that you've done, now do you send this to a person's health provider or do you send it to the person themselves?
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Like, how does that work if?
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so.
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So our customer is a health care professional.
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So, to give you an example, we uh build a test for uh female hormone health, so it's called menopause biotype, and Dr Jennifer Berman, who's one of the top female sexual health doctors in the country, reached out to us and said look, I'm seeing a lot of patients and I have two things that are happening.
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Number one I'm seeing a lot of younger women that are starting to show perimenopause symptoms late 20s, early 30s.
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That may have something to do with the hormones that are in to show perimenopause symptoms late 20s, early 30s.
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That may have something to do with the hormones that are in their foods that they're ingesting.
00:20:40.670 --> 00:20:57.759
And the other thing that I'm seeing is a lot of women are experiencing these adverse effects associated with menopause or perimenopause a lot of hot flash severity, weight gain, cognitive challenges, et cetera, osteoporosis predispositions or bone health.
00:20:59.351 --> 00:21:02.941
Is there a way that we can get ahead of that and mitigate that in advance?
00:21:02.941 --> 00:21:28.221
So the way that we can do that is we can do the genetic test, show you what you're predisposed to, create a treatment plan that includes hormone optimization if you're a good candidate for that personally, supplementation, things of that nature and you can measure how well that works to mitigate the expression of some of those things like hot flash severity, as an example.
00:21:28.221 --> 00:22:05.638
So then we book on that experience and check to see if anything has been expressed and we can see that through methylation testing et cetera, or something like biological age, we can actually see that biological age reduces, based on a protocol that's been recommended for you and so, basically, so it's like all these, so you're getting this to the healthcare providers and then they're from there taking the recommendations that you're from the tests that you've conducted and then incorporating it into treatment plan for the patients.
00:22:05.818 --> 00:22:22.380
So it's a very collaborative experience with the doctor and the patient because it becomes more personalized that way.
00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:38.324
So you're not just here take two of these, it's this is why you should take two, or this is why you should take one, and then we can see how it's working for the individual and the AI learns patterns and starts making those predictions.
00:22:38.324 --> 00:22:41.278
So I mean, we have a number of tests.
00:22:41.278 --> 00:22:46.580
That's just one of them, but doing your whole genome allows you to interact with your DNA.
00:22:46.580 --> 00:23:02.970
So now a healthcare professional can pull up and say show me all of Sonia's inflammatory markers, cross-reference them with any metabolic markers, see if there is a drug-to-drug interaction, contraindication between medications or supplements that you may be taking.
00:23:02.970 --> 00:23:11.380
So this becomes a very, very targeted, focused and personalized experience for your health and wellness.
00:23:13.691 --> 00:23:34.621
I remember being in discussions or hearing about it where in my field because I'm a therapist mental health therapist you know for patients who are going, who are recommend or clients rather, who are getting recommended to go and see a psychiatrist to help with the biochemical aspect of their depression or their anxiety.
00:23:34.661 --> 00:23:38.549
I remember you know discussions were being held about getting genetically a psychiatrist to help with the biochemical aspect of their depression or their anxiety.
00:23:38.549 --> 00:23:50.820
I remember you know discussions were being held about getting genetically, having them get genetically tested to see how they would interact with some of the medications that are typically prescribed for such conditions.
00:23:50.820 --> 00:23:54.734
And it's becoming a thing and I think that you know the.
00:23:54.734 --> 00:24:18.538
I think genetic testing and how your body works and will interact with substances, whether it's medicines, whether it's vitamins, whether it's your hormones, I think it's such a great and holistic way to also help, you know, deal with things and help a person navigate through whatever they may have coming up or whatever conditions they're facing.
00:24:18.538 --> 00:24:21.398
I think it's such a great and I think it's important.
00:24:21.398 --> 00:24:26.582
I think it's an important cornerstone to the health field at large.
00:24:27.630 --> 00:24:34.298
Yeah, and since you mentioned you know mental health, I have a quick story that just happened.
00:24:34.298 --> 00:25:10.192
Recently I have an associate friend who's a very successful business person, had some personal challenges, had some things that didn't go right, became depressed, may have had some predisposition to do, you know, depressive markers I didn't know that at the time and went to a psychopharmacologist and got prescribed an antidepressant and he was saying that he was driving in the Los Angeles area around the canyons and has taken his son to a soccer game with his wife and he goes.
00:25:10.192 --> 00:25:17.971
He was driving around the curves and he had this overwhelming desire to drive off the cliff and he goes.
00:25:17.971 --> 00:25:27.612
It was so visual, he could clearly see it and it made total sense to him and he was so scared he pulled over and his wife got out and said you okay?
00:25:27.612 --> 00:25:30.257
He said I'm not okay, I should not be driving.
00:25:31.239 --> 00:25:44.424
And luckily he recognized that when he went back to the psychopharmacologist, did his pharmacogenomics test, realized that the drug that he was on was red, so it was the wrong drug for him.
00:25:44.424 --> 00:25:51.678
Based on that, in addition to that, he also had a gene for treatment-resistant depression resistant depression.
00:25:51.678 --> 00:26:05.074
So not only is the drug wrong, the drug may not work for him at all, but he's still got the side effects from the drug, which is suicidal thoughts.
00:26:05.074 --> 00:26:18.757
So how many psychopharmacologists actually do pharmacogenomics or genetic testing to see number one, if they have a candidate that this could work for, and look at the drugs that are maybe more efficacious or less efficacious from the individual so they don't suffer the side effects?
00:26:19.057 --> 00:26:34.619
and those are the things that we can do to help apart from the affiliate, uh, that you knew who was a successful business person, that one that you had come to, that you know who had that unfortunate experience.
00:26:34.619 --> 00:26:49.038
You've mentioned before that you've also dealt with a lot of people who are on the autism spectrum and you've dealt with families and people who've a lot of people have come your way with that too.
00:26:49.038 --> 00:26:54.644
So can you tell us a little bit more about like what that experience was and working with that population?
00:26:55.428 --> 00:26:55.910
Yeah, absolutely.
00:26:55.910 --> 00:27:09.818
I worked with a lot of doctors around the world that work with spectrum disorder and spectrum conditions, but I have a story that I just also was recently.
00:27:09.818 --> 00:27:11.403
I find it really fascinating.
00:27:11.403 --> 00:27:13.778
So a mom reached out.
00:27:13.778 --> 00:27:20.063
She has two kids that are on the spectrum.
00:27:20.063 --> 00:27:29.473
They're both in school and the schools are asking for the parents to remove the kids because they're extremely disruptive.
00:27:29.473 --> 00:27:35.598
One is even more disruptive than the other and the other copies, you know, outbursts all that.
00:27:35.598 --> 00:27:38.739
And she said the second thing that's happening is they don't sleep.
00:27:38.739 --> 00:27:40.917
They're having a really hard time with sleep.
00:27:40.917 --> 00:27:43.278
So she asked is there anything that we can do?
00:27:43.278 --> 00:27:47.920
So we did their genetic tests and this is, you know, under medical supervision.
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:58.835
There is a phytocannabinoid solution for them, so including CBD, et cetera, and she recorded a testimonial for us and said a miracle happened.
00:27:58.835 --> 00:28:00.239
There's two things that are happening.
00:28:00.239 --> 00:28:01.582
Number one and what she's doing.
00:28:01.582 --> 00:28:10.555
She's taking the uh um like a soft gel and she's squeezing out the oil and putting into their juice or whatever, and they're consuming that.
00:28:10.555 --> 00:28:13.181
And she says there's two things that happen.
00:28:13.181 --> 00:28:20.644
First of all, the school called them and come in and said whatever you're doing with the kids goes, keep doing it.
00:28:20.644 --> 00:28:22.955
They've completely did a 180.
00:28:22.955 --> 00:28:30.339
They're attentive, they're not disruptive, they're paying attention in school, all that.
00:28:30.339 --> 00:28:35.001
The second thing she said we're getting 10 hours of sleep a night.
00:28:35.001 --> 00:28:37.939
So somehow some way this is happening.
00:28:37.939 --> 00:28:40.618
So they have a daytime and a nighttime protocol.
00:28:40.618 --> 00:28:48.857
The daytime is more to address some of the stress and anxiety and nighttime is a little more sedative.
00:28:48.857 --> 00:28:57.040
But they wake up without having brain fog and, like I said, she left us a very nice testimonial for that.
00:28:57.040 --> 00:28:58.530
So that's one example.
00:28:58.590 --> 00:29:23.267
Another example is I was invited to speak in Brazil and I don't get a lot of interaction with customers, but here there was a line of people that were waiting to speak to me and this girl was in a wheelchair and she was smiling, but really I wasn't sure if she was verbal or not.
00:29:23.267 --> 00:29:29.903
And her mom came with her and she was saying that for years she had multiple conditions.
00:29:29.903 --> 00:29:39.846
Spectrum is just one of those, but she has multiple conditions nonverbal, but not only nonverbal, but no eye contact.
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