Mastering Product Success: The SPICE Formula with David Fradin

WEBVTT

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Go live, we're live. David had the Zoom link,

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which I'm not even on Zoom, but I made a mistake,

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because let me tell you, when you go to make

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changes to your website, like anything can happen.

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So David, this is lovely. You are brave, you

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are bold, you're partly bald, which is good,

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because you're a man, so I can say that. And

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I have no idea who you are. So let's start by

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saying welcome to the live, no prep needed. So

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as you know, I did zero prep. I mean, I just

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typed your name and I think I got it. David Frayden.

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So David Frayden, it's up to you to introduce

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yourself. Well, I was found under a cabbage leaf

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in Detroit. And what I do now is I consult and

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teach product success. Set around the five keys

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to product success. which is summarized in the

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mnemonic spice of my company's name, Spice Catalyst.

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Ooh, mnemonic? Yeah, that's what the letters,

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each of the letters stand for something. Oh,

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okay. So is that spice? So, oh, oh, I think we're

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all ears. Everyone, listen up, listen up. All

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right. This is really interesting. You have a

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lot to share and I can't wait to hear it all.

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So, okay, give it to us. Make it spicy. Well,

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the S stands for you have to have a product market

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strategy, which has 32 components before you

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start development of your product. And a lot

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of companies don't do that. So as a result, about

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35 % of all new products introduced each year

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fail in the marketplace, which represents a waste

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of well over a trillion dollars. The P stands

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for repeatable processes so that you have a mature

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process for product development and marketing.

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The I stands for having the information necessary

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in order to make informed decisions. The C stands

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for understanding your customer, and that's probably

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the most important thing. And that is not in

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terms of what they say they need or want because

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generally they don't know what they need or want.

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An example of that is allegedly Henry Ford went

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out on the streets of Dearborn, Michigan, not

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far from where I grew up. And he asked people

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if they wanted a low -cost car. And they said,

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no, I just want a faster horse. Well, if he had

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gone out and grabbed a mug of beer from a local

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saloon and sat on the stoop, he would have noticed

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people whipping their horses to get through town

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faster. And if the internet existed back then

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and someone was doing market research based upon

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people searching for problems they're trying

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to solve, they would have found that nobody was

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searching for car or for automobile. So therefore

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all these highways that we have in these parking

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lots are a mirage because nobody really wants

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a car or needs a car. So he should have actually

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invented a longer and more lethal buggy whip

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instead of the automobile. And maybe that's the

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reason that he called it a horseless carriage

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in order to transition from beating horses to

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automobiles and cars. So my work there centers

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around a more focusing of the outcome -based

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innovation that has been written about in recent

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years and the jobs to be done to a more granular

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do. What is it that you want to do? Why you want

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to do it? When you want to do it? Where you want

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to do it? How you want to do it? What's standing

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in your way? How important is it for you to get

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it done? And most importantly, how satisfied

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are you with the current solution? And in order

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to have a successful product, you have to identify

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at least 15 of these dues that's poorly satisfied

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by other things. And then the market window for

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your product or your service is opened up. And

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you can then confidently bring your product or

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service to market and will be successful. Lastly,

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the E stands for employees. I've identified in

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my book that Wiley published, it's a little 796

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page pamphlet called Successful Product Design

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and Management Toolkit, that there are 130 competencies

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or skill sets. that organizations have to have

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within their organization in order to have a

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successful product. And that's the kind of training

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that I provide is to enable a high level of competency

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in all of those skill sets. Okay. I love it.

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Okay. First of all, can you share the story about

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Henry Ford and using the, from the trees, the,

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I can't think, the Spanish moss? And he used

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that as stuffing? until he realized that there

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were bugs in them? Did you ever hear that story?

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No, stuffing for what? The cushions? Yes, for

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the cushions. So he started with the Spanish

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moss. OK, we'll go back to that because I think

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that's interesting. I never saw Spanish moss

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in Detroit. So I don't know where he got it.

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Oh, that's true. I learned that on my St. Augustine

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and Savannah trip. But OK, let's go back through

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these. Let's talk about the problems because

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when you were saying this, I'm like, why oh why

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would someone ever try to sell something without

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getting like all of this together and making

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sure so obviously David they are mistakes are

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being made and I think that's crazy so I want

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to go back and hear some of the like the stories

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and kind of talk about each one so go back to

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the S. Well an example of not understanding what

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your customer wants to do. And the components

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of the S is first doing the discover what it

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is that your customer wants to do, developing

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problem scenarios and use cases, doing your marketing

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and market competitive research and analysis,

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understanding what technologies are coming along

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and how that may disrupt what you're trying to

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do and whether or not you need to incorporate

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it. coming up with personas, a thorough description

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of the person and or the company you're going

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to target with your product or service. And from

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that, you can then do surveys, first interviews

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and then surveys after observation. And if you

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have big data available, you can utilize that,

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which will then enable you to project what the

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market size is that your product or service will

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be focused on, what segments of that market you

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want to go after, and then what your target market

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is going to be, and how you're going to distribute

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your product. The next component of a product

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market strategy is writing your value proposition.

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your product positioning What the opportunity

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is and what risks and then you bring to bear

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innovation and innovation is a sexy word like

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entrepreneur entrepreneur is nothing more than

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French for product manager and Innovation is

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just doing something faster better at lower cost

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higher quality and with the advent of the Apple

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watch It doesn't do telling time faster better

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with a higher quality unless it doesn't tell

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you the right time, but it all also inhibit a

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lot of style. So there can be innovation in style.

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And that enables you then to put together a little

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chart that we used to do at Hewlett Packard listing

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out the product's features, its advantages and

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benefits. And then I like to include on the chart

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also what is the problem that that feature is

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solving. So that your sales force, when they

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get out calling on a customer or you're putting

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together your website, you can make sure you

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can address the things that people want to do

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and tell the story of how your product or service

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will help them do that. The last four components

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is a pricing strategy, a budget, and return on

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investment analysis. And if you do the market

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research from the bottom up in terms of what

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you want to do, and you interview... some words

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of the survey, some words of the neighborhood

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of 800 to 1200 of your prospective persona customers,

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then you could project from the bottom up what

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the size of the market is, what price point people

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would buy at, how much the elasticity of demand

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might be, and therefore. how much money you can

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make. And then with that data, you can go out

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if you need to and convince the higher ups in

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your company to fund your product and their service

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and or go out to venture capitalists and angel

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investors. They give them assurance that they'll

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get a return on their investment. Then you can

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take a breath, take a breath. Amazing stuff.

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Amazing, amazing, amazing. Okay. Let's just like,

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this is like really important because everything

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you said is part of your business plan. So it

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can't go like this. Let me just show you can't

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go like this. Hey David, I have this brush. I'm

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ready to take it to the market. Guess what? Everyone's

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got to want my brush and David's going to tell

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me. Well, a lot of other people sell brushes

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and my question is what is it that that brush

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does better even with style than any other brush?

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or David may even say to me, Adrian, there's

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plenty of people that don't need a hairbrush.

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They want a comb or maybe they don't have any

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hair. And they, so, and then I'm only like joking

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around with that day, which by the way, my bangs

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are just so funky. Okay. So, but the reason why

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I'm bringing that up David is because I still

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hear that all the time. So who are, who's your

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audience? Everybody. And I think, ooh, we got

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to go way back now because everything that David

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just shared, and I know it's a lot and I'm going

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to break it down into the show notes so that

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you'll have it broken down. And you should just

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get yourself a business plan, because that's

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the start of it. It's going to take time. When

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my son started his business, he took six months.

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He also used some interesting tools. So since

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he knew he had a product that he was going to

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start to sell on Amazon, he used some tools to

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see what are people searching for? What are they

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looking for? So everything you said absolutely

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makes sense. You can't start your business without

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this information. So David, my question to you

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is, why? Are people actually starting a business

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without this information? Why are they jumping

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into the pool and there's no water? I don't understand

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it. Well, they think they are omnipresent and

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omnipotent and their stuff doesn't stink. And

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I've met a number of those types of entrepreneurs

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and they just refuse to believe what the market

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research shows them. A very good example of that

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is when I was at Apple, a product called Lisa

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was introduced. and they priced it at $10 ,000,

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which was like five times the price of an Apple

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II, and they mispositioned it in a product, mispositioned

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the product in the market. They ultimately had

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to shut the product line down because they didn't

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understand what their own product did and who

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their target market was. Jenny Saul, who's a

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friend of mine that I worked with at Apple, she

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was in the corporate market research department.

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And even though Steve Jobs says Apple doesn't

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do market research, she was only one of 40 people

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in the market research department at Apple. We

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did a lot of market research and senior people

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at Apple did not believe the research that she

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turned up about why the Lisa, the way they were

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positioned to get in the market was not going

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to be successful. They tried to position it as

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an office computer, which enabled people to do

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word processing, spreadsheets, graphics, and

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so forth. But the only software available to

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do that was from Apple itself, and it was incomplete.

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But when I went out and I was in the peripherals

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group responsible for the hard disk drive that

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was on Lisa, When I went out and looked at and

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surveyed who was it that had the Lisa, why did

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they buy it and how were they using it? It was

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mostly being purchased by graphics departments

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and corporate marketing departments at major

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companies because at the time the only way to

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do it overhead transparency or we called it a

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foil back then. was to type it out using an orator

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ball on your electric IBM typewriter, which gave

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you a larger font that people might be able to

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see from the front row. Well, with Elisa, you

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could do that overhead transparency with any

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size, type and any font that was available on

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the system. And it was considerably less expensive

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than developing film and taking letters one by

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one off of a stencil and laying it down on a

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piece of paper before making the overhead transparency.

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So it's a huge labor saver. And if they sold

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it just for that one application to create overhead

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transparencies. the product would have been significantly

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more successful. Say I find it so interesting.

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I love stories like that. So thank you for the

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share. You know, so tic tac, you know, almost

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closing and there's so many people on tic tac

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right now that are making money on these products.

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I'm not gonna talk about their reselling, but

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some of them have like new products. So I could

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kind of kind of hear that conversation. David.

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I have a hundred thousand followers on LinkedIn.

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I've got 6 ,000. I'm going to be good. I'm just

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going to put it out there and everyone's going

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to buy it. I don't need market research. I had

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my own baby. I know what the baby needs. I know

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what parents need. Like I think that that's right.

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Isn't that kind of like what, what the mind is

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saying? Because why? Why? Because I'm thinking

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it's because of time and not having the right,

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like not understanding that it's, it could take

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six months. all of the research that you were

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saying, all the focus groups, all of the going

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down that rabbit hole, making sure your mission

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and vision, again, your business plan does take

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time. I look for you to speak about that. How

00:14:24.860 --> 00:14:27.840
do you fight through the time when you need it

00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.980
to get it done perfectly? And maybe you don't

00:14:30.980 --> 00:14:34.399
have the money to wait for the time. How do you

00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:37.399
look at all of that so that you can move it forward

00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:41.860
and get your product into our hands? You're right,

00:14:41.940 --> 00:14:44.440
it takes three to six people months in order

00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:48.940
to get your product market strategy done. One

00:14:48.940 --> 00:14:54.879
to three months of actual effort. Three to six

00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:57.620
is calendar time, and that's the time it takes

00:14:57.620 --> 00:15:01.039
to schedule meetings, hold the meetings, pull

00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:03.200
together your data, analyze it, and so forth.

00:15:03.939 --> 00:15:06.519
And one of the things that's been propagating

00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:08.779
throughout Silicon Valley, probably the last

00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:12.279
20 years or so, which we didn't do before, and

00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:15.700
I've been out here 40 -some years in Silicon

00:15:15.700 --> 00:15:19.659
Valley, is that they say, okay, we're going to

00:15:19.659 --> 00:15:23.500
go train a sharpshooter, and we just want the

00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:28.600
sharpshooter be ready, fire, and then aim. That's

00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:33.179
what... Mark Zuckerberg's fail fast, destroy

00:15:33.179 --> 00:15:36.639
things and fail fast or stuff like that. Well,

00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:39.960
without a product market strategy, it's ready,

00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:43.279
fire, aim. With a product market strategy, it's

00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:45.740
ready, aim, fire. And the chances of hitting

00:15:45.740 --> 00:15:48.240
the bullseye are significantly more improved.

00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:52.940
If you do take the time before you waste all

00:15:52.940 --> 00:15:56.919
of your money on your... your product development.

00:15:57.659 --> 00:15:59.620
I'll give you an example of that if you want

00:15:59.620 --> 00:16:03.559
me to tell a story. I love stories. I started

00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:09.580
a company back in 2002 called Maui Games and

00:16:09.580 --> 00:16:12.559
that's what I wanted to live on Maui and I figured

00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:15.580
game development would be interesting but there

00:16:15.580 --> 00:16:17.659
are a lot of other companies around the world

00:16:17.659 --> 00:16:20.799
that were doing games then but nobody was developing

00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:25.720
games for cell phones. So I developed had some

00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:28.340
games developed for me who was like Maui mountain

00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:31.840
biking where you ride down Haleakala on your

00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.580
bicycle on your cell phone And then when you

00:16:34.580 --> 00:16:37.500
crash there, it was a sponsored crash So this

00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:40.580
crash was brought to you by zeal optics or or

00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:42.820
sock any running issues or something like that

00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:45.879
And I would charge the advertiser to get to be

00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:50.000
have ads placed in the games I also had another

00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:53.870
little app called on Koran court It was a virtual

00:16:53.870 --> 00:16:56.350
cigarette lighter. So if you go to a concert

00:16:56.350 --> 00:17:00.809
and you want an encore before cell phones and

00:17:00.809 --> 00:17:04.170
before people stop smoking, you would pull out

00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:06.390
your cigarette lighter and hold it up and wave

00:17:06.390 --> 00:17:09.130
the flame back and forth to get an encore. Well,

00:17:09.150 --> 00:17:11.769
since a lot of people stopped smoking, this was

00:17:11.769 --> 00:17:14.609
a little virtual cigarette lighter on your cell

00:17:14.609 --> 00:17:19.450
phone. And one day, some reporter from the Los

00:17:19.450 --> 00:17:23.319
Angeles Times went to a concert one evening at

00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.500
the Hollywood Bowl and all of the people in the

00:17:26.500 --> 00:17:28.579
audience pulled out their cell phone with my

00:17:28.579 --> 00:17:30.940
encore encore on it and they're waiting to get

00:17:30.940 --> 00:17:33.140
back and forth so they wrote up a rather humorous

00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:35.960
article for how many times about this. I did

00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:41.119
other applications like Light My Fire which was

00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.400
a virtual fireplace so when you go out on a hot

00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:48.569
date You prop up your cell phone on the table

00:17:48.569 --> 00:17:51.410
and you have a little romantic fireplace and

00:17:51.410 --> 00:17:54.029
another one called candelabra candelabra Which

00:17:54.029 --> 00:17:57.589
is a virtual series of candles as you can also

00:17:57.589 --> 00:18:00.410
put on the table to enhance your relationship

00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:05.750
and And I sold ads in each of these things But

00:18:05.750 --> 00:18:08.309
I made a mistake because I had not done a product

00:18:08.309 --> 00:18:12.740
market strategy. I had assumed that since ads

00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:15.940
being inserted into console video games was just

00:18:15.940 --> 00:18:18.880
becoming a big thing. It would become a big thing

00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:21.819
on cell phones and I could partake in that industry.

00:18:23.140 --> 00:18:25.880
So I went out, tried to raise some angel investors

00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:28.819
and the guy that started the Good Earth catalog

00:18:28.819 --> 00:18:31.079
was at an angel investors meeting and he stood

00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:33.700
up and he says, I don't want ads on my cell phone,

00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:35.960
therefore I'm not going to invest and no one

00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:39.640
else here should invest in your company. I also

00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:42.599
had put together a sales force to sell ads in

00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:47.500
my cell phone games for the United States, but

00:18:47.500 --> 00:18:50.599
found out after I had spent all my money on product

00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:54.759
development that I had developed it for the Nokia

00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:57.299
cell phones, which by the way, went out of business

00:18:57.299 --> 00:19:00.759
seven years after the iPhone came out. And they

00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:02.799
were telling me that they had the largest installed

00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:05.819
base of cell phones worldwide. What they didn't

00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:08.420
tell me is that they were all in Europe and in

00:19:08.420 --> 00:19:11.680
Asia and my sales force was in the United States

00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:15.680
so because I had figured out my product distribution

00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:19.440
strategy and Where my target audience was located

00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:22.160
and I didn't bother to ask anybody whose cell

00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.420
phone they had I just assumed what Nokia told

00:19:25.420 --> 00:19:28.140
me was correct and as a result I ran out of money

00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:32.000
and went out of business Around that time in

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:41.559
2003 RCN magazine, which was the tomb for the

00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:45.920
telecommunications businesses, gave me credit

00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.799
for having shipped the first ad on a cell phone.

00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:52.680
So that and 25 cents is still not enough to get

00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:55.559
me a cup of coffee. I was just way too early

00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:59.369
to the market because I did not. do my product

00:19:59.369 --> 00:20:02.369
market strategy and understand what my customers

00:20:02.369 --> 00:20:06.470
wanted to do. And there's a lot of examples of

00:20:06.470 --> 00:20:11.269
companies and products that fail to ready aim,

00:20:11.529 --> 00:20:13.650
and then when they fire, they blow themselves

00:20:13.650 --> 00:20:18.170
up. Thank you for sharing that story. I almost

00:20:18.170 --> 00:20:20.410
want to let it sit for a minute because, wow,

00:20:20.809 --> 00:20:23.750
I mean, I can't imagine being in a room of investors

00:20:23.750 --> 00:20:26.819
and an investor standing up and saying, absolutely

00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:29.920
no and all of you don't do it either. That would

00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.579
be terrifying but it really does. First of all,

00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:36.599
really great story. I'm so embarrassed to say

00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:38.220
it's a great story. It's a horrible story but

00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:40.279
you told it so great. That was really a great

00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:42.619
lesson. It's a good lesson. A couple years ago

00:20:42.619 --> 00:20:46.680
I looked again and the market for cell phone

00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:50.319
ads is well over 15 billion dollars a year now.

00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:56.029
So soon. I was just 20 years too early. Yes,

00:20:56.029 --> 00:20:58.769
yes. You really, it's amazing. You know, actually,

00:20:58.990 --> 00:21:00.769
while you were talking, I was thinking to myself,

00:21:01.210 --> 00:21:04.609
now this man, David Frayden, is a real entrepreneur.

00:21:05.130 --> 00:21:07.269
And you know, there have been times where, that's

00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:09.849
another thing too, I've taught the Fast Track,

00:21:09.930 --> 00:21:12.789
the Kauffman Fast Track program, which is a great

00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:16.549
program, F -A -S -T -T -R -A -C. And if you could

00:21:16.549 --> 00:21:18.789
get in that program for, you know, it's a way

00:21:18.789 --> 00:21:21.769
to kind of... work out your business plan with

00:21:21.769 --> 00:21:25.390
other people. If you can't afford David Frayden,

00:21:25.410 --> 00:21:27.210
which I hope you can because to be successful,

00:21:27.269 --> 00:21:28.849
you got to start at the beginning, blah, blah,

00:21:28.890 --> 00:21:31.150
blah. But the most important thing, David, is

00:21:31.150 --> 00:21:34.670
that so mistakes are going to happen, understanding

00:21:34.670 --> 00:21:36.890
them. But I want to talk about the entrepreneur.

00:21:37.509 --> 00:21:40.170
I'd love to hear your definition. What do you

00:21:40.170 --> 00:21:44.470
think defines an entrepreneur compared to a business

00:21:44.470 --> 00:21:49.509
owner? Well, entrepreneur is a French word. And

00:21:49.509 --> 00:21:51.769
it's a French word that happens to describe what

00:21:51.769 --> 00:21:54.849
a product manager does and a product marketing

00:21:54.849 --> 00:22:01.630
manager. So product management dates back to

00:22:01.630 --> 00:22:04.650
brand management at Procter & Gamble in 1932.

00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:08.759
And then when HP was founded, Hewlett Packard

00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:12.680
was founded in 1938, they adopted the brand manager

00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:15.660
concept into product management and called it

00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:17.720
product management. And some people call it a

00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.059
technically trained manager. A product owner

00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:24.900
as a head of a company is nothing more than the

00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:32.630
president or CEO. In the 1990s, Agile development

00:22:32.630 --> 00:22:35.390
processes, particularly in software, were developed.

00:22:35.990 --> 00:22:39.329
And then as they have been applied, you have

00:22:39.329 --> 00:22:43.430
your Agile team, which would have your scrums,

00:22:43.869 --> 00:22:46.269
which is all described in the Agile business.

00:22:47.170 --> 00:22:50.250
And the person running the scrums typically has

00:22:50.250 --> 00:22:53.630
the title of product odor. But the product odor

00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:57.619
works tactically, puts together the product backlog,

00:22:58.299 --> 00:23:01.579
monitors the speed in which each of the little

00:23:01.579 --> 00:23:04.720
features are developed, and adjusts the backlog

00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:07.480
as appropriate. While the product manager, if

00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.660
he or she has a product odor running the scrubs,

00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:13.819
then the product manager can operate strategically

00:23:13.819 --> 00:23:17.900
and work on, for example, the five keys to product

00:23:17.900 --> 00:23:23.460
success. Let me get out of the weeds for a second.

00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:26.059
I got to pull all those weeds away. Wait, what?

00:23:26.599 --> 00:23:30.759
So I think, just to give you, because I'm not

00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:34.079
as fancy as you are, I think that an entrepreneur,

00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:37.339
what I've learned, is someone that has taken

00:23:37.339 --> 00:23:40.519
a risk. So for a business owner, if I was to

00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:43.319
buy your business, or if I was to buy a franchise,

00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:46.839
or I was to go out and buy a flower shop, I would

00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:51.839
become a business owner. I am taking risks. trained,

00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:54.799
um, I was, was a score for eight years was to

00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:57.079
think of the entrepreneur. It's a little different.

00:23:57.319 --> 00:23:59.259
They are someone that's kind of starting something

00:23:59.259 --> 00:24:02.420
from scratch, taking all the risks. And so would

00:24:02.420 --> 00:24:04.500
you agree that that would be the difference?

00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:08.299
Yeah, I agree. Okay. But I love your lengthy.

00:24:08.579 --> 00:24:09.980
I mean, you know, I have to like pull it from

00:24:09.980 --> 00:24:12.680
the sky. That was a lot of words, but that was

00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:14.400
good to, it's always good to know. Thank you

00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.660
so much. That will not be in the show notes only

00:24:16.660 --> 00:24:20.460
because it was so much. So all right, so let's

00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:22.720
go to, I wanna hear some more stories. So let's

00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:24.880
share, we only have a few minutes left. Let's

00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:28.259
share some of the challenges because we know

00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:30.259
that you're needed. There's no question with

00:24:30.259 --> 00:24:32.660
that. Love the spice catalyst, but would love

00:24:32.660 --> 00:24:35.799
to hear a few more of like where things can go

00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:38.640
wrong. So let's go back to P now. Do you have

00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:43.450
anything to represent P? Yeah, I had a consultant

00:24:43.450 --> 00:24:46.009
with a company that developed Wi -Fi products

00:24:46.009 --> 00:24:49.230
targeted at the healthcare and government markets,

00:24:50.150 --> 00:24:52.190
which are kind of an education, which are kind

00:24:52.190 --> 00:24:55.609
of more enclosed environments rather than a home

00:24:55.609 --> 00:25:01.609
market or a business market. And they developed

00:25:01.609 --> 00:25:04.210
five of these and all five of them failed in

00:25:04.210 --> 00:25:08.059
the marketplace. And I asked the VP of product

00:25:08.059 --> 00:25:11.920
management, did you have a process that you followed

00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:14.140
for each of these products and improved upon

00:25:14.140 --> 00:25:17.519
it after each failure? He says, no, we never

00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:20.420
had a process. And he said that results in a

00:25:20.420 --> 00:25:23.500
culture of blame. So after a product failed,

00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:28.119
they'd all sit around and blame each other. I

00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:30.799
love that a culture of blame for processes, but

00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:34.119
you can, you can readjust your processes. So

00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:36.700
if you did start and realize, oh, I don't have

00:25:36.700 --> 00:25:39.660
a process set up and there's no time like now,

00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:41.559
unless you want to close your business that you

00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.259
can, and sometimes they just naturally are changed

00:25:44.259 --> 00:25:46.980
as you develop and scale, you need more processes.

00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:50.460
So I love that. Again, I don't understand if

00:25:50.460 --> 00:25:53.279
you had a business and not have a process that's

00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:57.160
crazy. And a lot of processes nowadays can include

00:25:57.369 --> 00:26:00.589
AI in their processes to help streamline along.

00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:05.430
So all right, I love that. I. I is having the

00:26:05.430 --> 00:26:08.630
information necessary to get to make informed

00:26:08.630 --> 00:26:13.589
decisions. I was doing some consulting for the

00:26:13.589 --> 00:26:19.849
services division of Cisco and they had no market

00:26:19.849 --> 00:26:24.009
research where the services business is going

00:26:24.009 --> 00:26:29.119
for the networking. marketplace. So I went to

00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:31.740
the corporate marketing department at Cisco and

00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:36.599
they subscribed to 84 different research companies

00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:40.740
reports and services and newsletters and I was

00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:44.259
quite familiar with that because I was the associate

00:26:44.259 --> 00:26:46.960
director of the personal computer information

00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.180
service at a market research company called DataQuest

00:26:50.180 --> 00:26:53.059
back in the 80s which was later acquired by the

00:26:53.059 --> 00:26:56.819
Gartner Group. So it was those kinds of services

00:26:56.819 --> 00:26:59.660
that the corporate Cisco marketing was subscribing

00:26:59.660 --> 00:27:04.940
to. Four of those 80 or so market research companies

00:27:04.940 --> 00:27:10.500
had an ad on service covering services, but Cisco

00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:12.640
corporate marketing had not subscribed to those.

00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:15.359
So I asked them if they could subscribe to them

00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:17.859
so that I had the information available to help

00:27:17.859 --> 00:27:21.359
guide this $4 billion a year. services business

00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:24.299
at Cisco. They said sure we could get it but

00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:27.079
this was like February and we don't have any

00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:29.759
money in the budget to get it now but we'll have

00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:32.940
our next budget at the end of July. It'll probably

00:27:32.940 --> 00:27:35.900
get approved in October so we'll be able to buy

00:27:35.900 --> 00:27:39.019
those four services for you maybe next January

00:27:39.019 --> 00:27:41.819
or February. I said well I'm sorry I have to

00:27:41.819 --> 00:27:44.259
make recommendations now and this is only a six

00:27:44.259 --> 00:27:47.900
month project and I'll be done long before you

00:27:47.930 --> 00:27:50.710
get the information necessary to make informed

00:27:50.710 --> 00:27:54.369
decisions. I had the same experience when I worked

00:27:54.369 --> 00:27:59.160
at Hewlett Packard. I went to them. My product

00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:02.559
was a executive report writer that sat on top

00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:05.440
of a data dictionary that sat on top of a relational

00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:09.319
database, which was the second relational database

00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:12.440
to go into the marketplace after IBM and before

00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:16.140
Oracle was formed. And I wanted to know what

00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:21.619
was the installed base. of HP 3000 mini computers

00:28:21.619 --> 00:28:24.500
because my software was targeted at them. Nobody

00:28:24.500 --> 00:28:27.900
knew how many HP 3000s had been sold. Nobody

00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:30.200
knew what their configurations were. Did they

00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:32.460
have hard drives? Did they have tape drives?

00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:35.099
So we wouldn't know what media to distribute

00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:37.779
our software on. They didn't know how many people

00:28:37.779 --> 00:28:40.440
had terminals connected to it. They didn't know

00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.000
how much memory they had, and on and on and on.

00:28:43.470 --> 00:28:47.069
Well, it turns out our corporate marketing department

00:28:47.069 --> 00:28:49.690
had none of that information either and had no

00:28:49.690 --> 00:28:53.710
way of getting it. But I could program a data

00:28:53.710 --> 00:28:59.049
dictionary to read all of the HP 3000 orders

00:28:59.049 --> 00:29:03.490
that were sent in for the name of the company

00:29:03.490 --> 00:29:07.279
that made IBM mainframe clones that we use for

00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:10.900
the HP ordering system worldwide. And I could

00:29:10.900 --> 00:29:14.140
read all of those transactions, which were 256

00:29:14.140 --> 00:29:17.420
characters in each column, and each of those

00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:20.000
characters meant something different. and produce

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:22.140
a report that told me how many had been sold

00:29:22.140 --> 00:29:25.220
and all the configuration questions I asked earlier.

00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:28.539
So that enabled me to make informed decisions

00:29:28.539 --> 00:29:31.539
based upon having real information, which was

00:29:31.539 --> 00:29:36.559
not available at HP in the 1980s or at Cisco

00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:45.660
in the 2010 timeframe. Alexa, stop. I love this.

00:29:45.819 --> 00:29:47.940
First of all, I love that you're weaving in how

00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:50.900
seasoned you are. So if you are looking for an

00:29:50.900 --> 00:29:54.180
expert, someone that just doesn't play on TikTok

00:29:54.180 --> 00:30:00.339
and actually has years of experience, not age,

00:30:00.460 --> 00:30:03.119
but just years of wisdom, I could tell right

00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:04.880
away, David, I love that you're like weaving

00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.839
it in because your experience is what really

00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.539
makes you and drives you. I don't, you know,

00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:13.059
I get, I have a feeling that you are a forward

00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:15.500
thinker. I'm a forward thinker. So we're also

00:30:15.500 --> 00:30:17.980
just going to be naturally inquisitive and kind

00:30:17.980 --> 00:30:20.480
of thinking ahead. So I think this is really

00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:23.099
important for those that are not and kind of

00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:25.440
just, you know, here's a brush and it stops and

00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:27.720
they're not like continuing to think about it.

00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:30.299
And if that is you and you know who you are,

00:30:30.380 --> 00:30:32.839
cause you should really. as someone that's going

00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:34.400
to start a business, get a feeling for who you

00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:37.039
are personally, right? Then you would know to

00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.160
make sure that you're talking with someone like

00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:42.819
David. So it's so important. All right, we'll

00:30:42.819 --> 00:30:47.099
speed this up in case you have to go. C. C is

00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:49.200
the understanding the customer, what does he

00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:52.559
want to do, when, where, so forth. An example

00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.539
of that is if you follow the outcome -based innovation

00:30:56.539 --> 00:31:00.859
or the jobs to be done models, back in 2018,

00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:03.759
I went to Singapore to give a speech at a product

00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.779
management conference. And I then needed to go

00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:09.359
on to Bangalore because I was going to teach

00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:12.680
the Cisco product managers there. So the job

00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:18.799
to be done was to go from my hotel in Singapore

00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:24.420
and get to my hotel and Bangalore. Well, in order

00:31:24.420 --> 00:31:27.259
to get started on that job to be done, I had

00:31:27.259 --> 00:31:29.660
to figure out which mode of transportation I

00:31:29.660 --> 00:31:32.599
would prefer to use to get to the airport. Could

00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:35.440
it be a taxi? Could it be Uber? Could it be a

00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:38.559
trade? Could it be a bus? Could it be a limo,

00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:40.900
a courtesy car service or whatever? How much

00:31:40.900 --> 00:31:43.480
are those going to cost? How long will each of

00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:47.839
them take and therefore calculate what time I

00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:50.619
need to check out of the hotel? Once I got to

00:31:50.619 --> 00:31:54.599
the airport, the thing I needed to do was to

00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:57.460
find the ticket counter for my airline. And I

00:31:57.460 --> 00:31:59.859
walk into the Singapore airport, and if anybody's

00:31:59.859 --> 00:32:02.519
ever been there, this place is humongous. I think

00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:04.720
it's three or four times the size of Manhattan.

00:32:06.460 --> 00:32:08.940
And luckily, there was an information desk just

00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:11.579
as I came in the door. I went up to them and

00:32:11.579 --> 00:32:15.289
asked, where do I... Check -in and they said

00:32:15.289 --> 00:32:17.230
oh the check -in counters over there and they

00:32:17.230 --> 00:32:19.769
pointed so over the check -in counter and the

00:32:19.769 --> 00:32:23.789
lady there is Playing a game on her iPad It says

00:32:23.789 --> 00:32:25.890
oh, I'm sorry this ticket counter isn't open

00:32:25.890 --> 00:32:28.990
yet It won't open for another eight minutes But

00:32:28.990 --> 00:32:31.410
if you go at the other end of this aisle at the

00:32:31.410 --> 00:32:33.170
other side of the terminal we could check you

00:32:33.170 --> 00:32:35.809
in there So go all the way down there now. I

00:32:35.809 --> 00:32:38.579
arrived at the airport My phone knew I was there

00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:42.279
because of GPS. My phone knew that I was flying

00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.200
on which airline. And I'm going, why can't the

00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:48.660
phone tell me where to go check in? And I mentioned

00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:51.599
that when I gave a speech when I got to Bangalore

00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:55.799
to Samsung, which was the about 100 engineers

00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:58.299
and product managers responsible for the Android

00:32:58.299 --> 00:33:01.960
operating system on Samsung's phones. And the

00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:04.920
guy came up to the VP of The product manager

00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:08.920
said, wouldn't people find that a little unnerving

00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:10.900
if their phone starts giving them directions

00:33:10.900 --> 00:33:13.420
when they get to the airport? I said, no, not

00:33:13.420 --> 00:33:17.099
if they first ask if it would be OK. Now when

00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:20.359
I tell my speaker, and if I say the word, my

00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:22.720
speaker will start playing. So when I say S -I

00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:28.440
-R -E, S -I -R -I, play such and such, the speaker

00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:30.579
comes back and says, OK, David. And I'm going,

00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:33.990
whoa. They never asked me if they could use my

00:33:33.990 --> 00:33:39.529
name. So I get to the ticket counter, and they

00:33:39.529 --> 00:33:43.609
say, OK, show me your ticket leaving India. And

00:33:43.609 --> 00:33:45.089
I said, well, I don't have a ticket to leave

00:33:45.089 --> 00:33:48.250
India yet, because Maddie Pell, pro -university,

00:33:48.410 --> 00:33:51.289
is scheduling speeches for me, like at Samsung,

00:33:51.549 --> 00:33:54.789
and at Phillips, and at Dell, and so forth. And

00:33:54.789 --> 00:33:56.950
I don't know when I'm going to leave. They said,

00:33:56.950 --> 00:33:59.509
well, you can't go to India unless you can prove

00:33:59.509 --> 00:34:02.049
you're going to leave India. I said, trust me,

00:34:02.269 --> 00:34:05.130
there's 1 .4 billion people there. I have absolutely

00:34:05.130 --> 00:34:07.769
no interest in staying in India. They said, too

00:34:07.769 --> 00:34:09.909
bad. You have to prove you're going to leave

00:34:09.909 --> 00:34:12.789
before you're allowed to go. Well, my phone knew

00:34:12.789 --> 00:34:15.630
that or could have found that out through the

00:34:15.630 --> 00:34:19.500
airline or through customs. passport or immigration,

00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:23.739
it told me that I needed a ticket out before

00:34:23.739 --> 00:34:27.860
I go in. So now I have to get a ticket. And they

00:34:27.860 --> 00:34:30.079
said, okay, go over to this counter over there,

00:34:30.860 --> 00:34:33.820
which was Singapore Airlines, stood in line there

00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:36.320
for about 20 minutes, got up and said, I need

00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:39.619
to buy a ticket from Bangalore to someplace out

00:34:39.619 --> 00:34:41.579
of there. They said, I'm sorry, we don't fly

00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:45.289
out of Bangalore. So what do you do? And the

00:34:45.289 --> 00:34:49.849
lady says, well, you can go to the tourism, not

00:34:49.849 --> 00:34:56.449
the tourism, the ticket seller in terminal one.

00:34:56.449 --> 00:34:58.809
I was in terminal two. And I said, I'll walk

00:34:58.809 --> 00:35:03.130
20 or 30 miles to get a ticket. And I said, oh,

00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:06.010
you can buy it online. So by this time, I was

00:35:06.010 --> 00:35:09.090
really hungry. And what my goal was, was to get

00:35:09.090 --> 00:35:12.099
to the airport early, get through security. go

00:35:12.099 --> 00:35:14.840
into the business class lounge and have six or

00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:16.000
seven... Oh, you're cutting out. Wait, repeat

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.320
that one more time. You cut out. My goal was

00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:23.679
to get to the airport early, get through security,

00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:27.539
which required me to check in, and then go to

00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:30.960
the business class lounge and have 15 or 20 Bloody

00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:36.880
Marys before I had to get on the flight. And

00:35:36.880 --> 00:36:22.550
you just dropped out. Thank you, David, for holding

00:36:22.550 --> 00:36:25.829
down the fort. And I love the bridge behind you

00:36:25.829 --> 00:36:28.670
or building. OK, so we need to go back a little

00:36:28.670 --> 00:36:34.309
bit. So you have to go to the counter. Yeah,

00:36:34.409 --> 00:36:40.610
after I needed to buy a ticket, my goal was when

00:36:40.610 --> 00:36:42.449
I got to the airport to get through security,

00:36:42.510 --> 00:36:45.610
go to the business class lounge and have 15 or

00:36:45.610 --> 00:36:47.949
20 Bloody Marys before I had to get on my flight.

00:36:49.420 --> 00:36:51.639
But I couldn't do that. And I looked up, and

00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:53.460
there was a mezzanine there, and they had a bunch

00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:55.380
of restaurants. So I went up to the restaurant.

00:36:56.460 --> 00:36:58.539
Couldn't find the elevator, so I had to haul

00:36:58.539 --> 00:37:02.760
my luggage up the stairs. Sat down, ordered breakfast,

00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:06.079
and started to get on my phone to buy a ticket

00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:10.119
to leave India so that I could go to India. And

00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:13.500
I opened up my phone, and of course, the eSIM

00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:19.530
that I bought in Singapore did not work. And

00:37:19.530 --> 00:37:24.949
when I tried to sign in to the Wi -Fi at the

00:37:24.949 --> 00:37:28.190
airport, it says, OK, we'll send you the PIN

00:37:28.190 --> 00:37:31.190
through a text message, which would have required

00:37:31.190 --> 00:37:34.590
my eSIM to work. So I couldn't get a text message

00:37:34.590 --> 00:37:38.889
to access the Wi -Fi to buy the ticket to leave

00:37:38.889 --> 00:37:42.480
India so that I could go to India. And then the

00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:44.699
waitress said, oh, you get the password all the

00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:46.900
way back on the other side of the terminal at

00:37:46.900 --> 00:37:49.179
the customer information desk that I'd first

00:37:49.179 --> 00:37:52.079
asked where the ticket counter was. So I left

00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:55.639
all my stuff, went downstairs, traipsed across

00:37:55.639 --> 00:37:58.199
the airport, got a little slip of paper with

00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:03.800
the Wi -Fi code, back to my table in the restaurant.

00:38:04.139 --> 00:38:06.860
And at that point, I said, I'm getting tired

00:38:06.860 --> 00:38:10.329
squinting at this little iPhone screen. So I

00:38:10.329 --> 00:38:12.670
pulled out my iPad, and it turns out the user

00:38:12.670 --> 00:38:16.409
interface for accessing Wi -Fi on the iPhone

00:38:16.409 --> 00:38:19.449
versus the iPad is different. So I had to climb

00:38:19.449 --> 00:38:22.369
up through the learning curve again to finally

00:38:22.369 --> 00:38:26.769
get out of the iPad on Wi -Fi, bought a ticket

00:38:26.769 --> 00:38:30.309
to leave, and then finished my breakfast, went

00:38:30.309 --> 00:38:33.869
downstairs, checked in, and then I couldn't find

00:38:33.869 --> 00:38:38.170
the... business class lounge to go into, plopped

00:38:38.170 --> 00:38:40.230
out in front of the gate, looked up, and there

00:38:40.230 --> 00:38:44.150
it was. Why couldn't I ask my iPhone, where's

00:38:44.150 --> 00:38:46.769
the business class lounge? Now there's an app

00:38:46.769 --> 00:38:50.210
out there called Trippit, T -R -I -P -I -T, which

00:38:50.210 --> 00:38:53.570
does a lot of those things for you, and that's

00:38:53.570 --> 00:38:56.650
it. classic example of a company understanding

00:38:56.650 --> 00:39:00.530
what it is that people want to do, not what job

00:39:00.530 --> 00:39:03.489
needs to be done. And that was a long story to

00:39:03.489 --> 00:39:07.230
explain why it's extremely important to get very

00:39:07.230 --> 00:39:11.010
granular in terms of what problems your product

00:39:11.010 --> 00:39:14.480
or service is going to solve. I mean, you took

00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:17.000
us again in the woods, but it was a great story

00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:19.019
because I'm like, oh my God, first of all, it

00:39:19.019 --> 00:39:21.099
shows that you have grit and determination and

00:39:21.099 --> 00:39:24.019
you persevered because some people would be like,

00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:26.639
not going to India or can't do it. I see way

00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:29.599
too many people just giving up, making up work,

00:39:30.059 --> 00:39:31.860
you know, just doing what's something like, oh

00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:34.360
my God, I can't do an up work or I actually have

00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.019
a company where I can I consult for and I'll

00:39:37.019 --> 00:39:39.000
send the link. And it's like a little bit of

00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:42.929
work. nobody does it. So like you obviously have

00:39:42.929 --> 00:39:45.730
and you need that you need as a business owner,

00:39:45.909 --> 00:39:49.269
entrepreneur grit and determination and perseverance.

00:39:49.309 --> 00:39:52.989
But with all that said, Unreasonable Hospitality

00:39:52.989 --> 00:39:56.269
is an amazing book. If you haven't read it because

00:39:56.269 --> 00:39:59.309
it's all about, you know, like thinking what

00:39:59.420 --> 00:40:01.800
like expecting what the customer needs before

00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:05.119
they do themselves so that your employees really

00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:08.340
do the best that they can. And I'm on Clubhouse

00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:10.579
Thursday mornings, Breakfast with Champions.

00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:13.460
It's an amazing app, which by the way, also is

00:40:13.460 --> 00:40:15.199
a great story. There's so many, every time you

00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:17.099
look at a business, there's like a story behind

00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:19.579
it. It's so juicy, but Breakfast with Champions.

00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:21.659
And we talked about that one time and I loved

00:40:21.659 --> 00:40:24.579
hearing the stories of unreasonable hospitality.

00:40:24.860 --> 00:40:27.679
For instance, just to give you... Shea cleans

00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:32.119
homes for a living, and her clients come home

00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:35.019
to beautiful flowers, to cookies, her own cookie

00:40:35.019 --> 00:40:37.460
recipe that she makes for them in their oven

00:40:37.460 --> 00:40:40.260
so it smells. She leaves them warm cookies, like

00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:42.280
anything you could do. So I never get enough

00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:45.400
of hearing stories under the Unreasonable Hospitality.

00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:47.599
So if you haven't read that book, it's a fabulous

00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:51.300
book. And then we got one more left, and that

00:40:51.300 --> 00:40:57.699
is the E. That's the skill sets necessary to

00:40:57.699 --> 00:41:01.079
do the product market strategy and the marketing,

00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:06.059
how to write a persona, how to do market research,

00:41:06.619 --> 00:41:10.840
and then the soft skills, how to negotiate, how

00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:14.420
to mediate. And part of my career before I went

00:41:14.420 --> 00:41:17.000
to Hewlett Packard is I was an environmental

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:20.119
mediator. and helped site facilities. So that's

00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:25.019
why HP hired me. And to understand how to take

00:41:25.019 --> 00:41:28.260
two parties or more that are at odds with one

00:41:28.260 --> 00:41:31.400
another and get them to come together with an

00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:33.579
agreement that all of them will stick to it.

00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:37.320
So that's a great deal of what a product manager,

00:41:37.420 --> 00:41:40.760
I prefer to call them a product success manager,

00:41:41.239 --> 00:41:44.940
needs to do is to mediate. between the priorities

00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:50.360
of finance, legal, engineering, sales, marketing,

00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:55.800
service, support, purchasing, and get everyone

00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:59.199
going up in the same direction to ensure product

00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:03.679
success. So mediation skills is one of the 130.

00:42:04.570 --> 00:42:07.690
competencies that an organizat and or an individual

00:42:07.690 --> 00:42:10.849
has to have, uh, in order to have successful

00:42:10.849 --> 00:42:14.030
services and successful products. Yeah. I love

00:42:14.030 --> 00:42:16.090
that. I, you know, I started, uh, I grew up in

00:42:16.090 --> 00:42:19.070
a family promotional products business and 10

00:42:19.070 --> 00:42:22.469
years ago, I thought I saw a need for corporate

00:42:22.469 --> 00:42:24.849
etiquette and business soft skills and thought,

00:42:24.849 --> 00:42:27.650
oh, that is something that if you want to learn,

00:42:27.710 --> 00:42:30.869
teach, right? And so I heard that statement and

00:42:30.869 --> 00:42:33.070
I started, uh, professional global etiquette,

00:42:33.070 --> 00:42:36.510
but I did my research. It took me about six months

00:42:36.510 --> 00:42:38.989
also just picking the school that I wanted to

00:42:38.989 --> 00:42:42.309
go to. I didn't just like, oh, that school looks

00:42:42.309 --> 00:42:45.530
good. I picked to me the best school, the professional

00:42:45.530 --> 00:42:48.719
school of Washington. But I think that it's so

00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:50.300
important David everything you're saying and

00:42:50.300 --> 00:42:52.099
I know that there's a lot of people that want

00:42:52.099 --> 00:42:55.460
to just jump right in so how how can they can

00:42:55.460 --> 00:42:58.900
they afford you what does that look like um you

00:42:58.900 --> 00:43:01.639
know do you offer anything if they can't afford

00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:04.099
you do you have a blog or any articles that maybe

00:43:04.099 --> 00:43:07.800
people can kind of like take and so just let's

00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.719
end it by your sharing how people can work with

00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:13.980
you because we told them why and and what's going

00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:16.360
to happen if you don't so you don't want to close

00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:18.920
those doors which probably will if you're not

00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:20.980
doing it right from the beginning. So how do

00:43:20.980 --> 00:43:23.340
you work with David? The first thing you do is

00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:27.900
go to my website SpiceCatalyst .com and I have

00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:30.260
several hundred articles on different aspects

00:43:30.260 --> 00:43:35.900
of product success on my blog. I also have two

00:43:35.900 --> 00:43:39.630
series of podcasts. on product management issues.

00:43:40.110 --> 00:43:42.570
One that was sponsored by Wiley and the other

00:43:42.570 --> 00:43:46.070
one that's on the business podcast network plus

00:43:46.070 --> 00:43:49.269
podcasts such as this one that I've repeated

00:43:49.269 --> 00:43:53.210
the links for the people could go listed in.

00:43:53.210 --> 00:43:56.050
In some cases, transcripts are there for the

00:43:56.050 --> 00:43:59.909
things that we discuss. You can also find links

00:43:59.909 --> 00:44:03.829
to all of my books, building and selling great

00:44:03.829 --> 00:44:07.179
products. organizing and managing insanely great

00:44:07.179 --> 00:44:10.340
products and successful product design and management

00:44:10.340 --> 00:44:13.559
toolkit. All of those books are available for

00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:17.179
purchase on Wiley, anywhere from a few dollars

00:44:17.179 --> 00:44:20.639
up to about $20. And then all of my courses.

00:44:21.230 --> 00:44:25.449
that can be taught in person, on demand, online,

00:44:26.030 --> 00:44:31.250
or streamed. All links, the course syllabus is

00:44:31.250 --> 00:44:33.530
like on how to do a product market strategy,

00:44:34.389 --> 00:44:37.050
marketing fundamentals, social media marketing,

00:44:37.690 --> 00:44:41.789
do innovation, and value proposition, and several

00:44:41.789 --> 00:44:45.469
other courses are listed there, and different

00:44:45.469 --> 00:44:50.239
ways to access them. I love that. I love that

00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:53.960
even, hold on, I just put that in the comments.

00:44:54.420 --> 00:44:56.239
You know what I love about that is that even

00:44:56.239 --> 00:44:58.460
you're thinking that we all learn differently.

00:44:58.599 --> 00:45:00.659
So you're like saying, if I've got you correctly,

00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:02.500
oh, you could take this course here if you wanna

00:45:02.500 --> 00:45:05.019
listen, if you wanna 101, if you like videos,

00:45:05.099 --> 00:45:08.099
if you like reading, kind of like that. So you're

00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:11.059
thinking of the... different minds that we have.

00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:13.719
So thank you for that, because I love that. I

00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:16.119
don't do well with videos, but I do better in

00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:17.860
reading. And of course, who wouldn't want a one

00:45:17.860 --> 00:45:20.519
-on -one with you? I really enjoyed our conversation

00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:23.420
today. It was great information, just shows you

00:45:23.420 --> 00:45:28.719
know your spices. And so I think that's fantastic.

00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:32.320
Actually, very flavorful. Like this, you put

00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:35.440
all the ingredients together, so I 100 % love

00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:38.039
it. And if you're ever looking for a gift to

00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:42.519
give away, ask your local distributor to show

00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:45.340
you a company called Le Tour De Spice. They do

00:45:45.340 --> 00:45:47.360
like little spice packets with your logo on it

00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:49.300
that you buy exclusively through promotional

00:45:49.300 --> 00:45:50.920
products distributors. But anyways, just had

00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:52.320
to throw that in there because it's pretty cool.

00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:56.539
So with that said, how was the interview? Give

00:45:56.539 --> 00:45:58.480
me a little feedback because I didn't know anything

00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:01.320
about you and I love that you signed up. And

00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:03.579
does it make you nervous to do a live when you

00:46:03.579 --> 00:46:07.929
don't know? me? No, I think you did a very good

00:46:07.929 --> 00:46:11.389
job. Yeah, no questions because I don't like

00:46:11.389 --> 00:46:12.849
questions beforehand, because then I would be

00:46:12.849 --> 00:46:17.130
looking. You should double your salary. I am

00:46:17.130 --> 00:46:19.510
going to pay. You know what? Good idea. Pay yourself

00:46:19.510 --> 00:46:22.710
more. Pay yourself first. All good advice. David,

00:46:22.849 --> 00:46:25.489
no, seriously, you are fantastic. I'm going to

00:46:25.489 --> 00:46:28.650
follow you. I'm a fan forever now. And so, oh,

00:46:28.829 --> 00:46:31.789
just give us that. So LinkedIn, where else can

00:46:31.789 --> 00:46:35.469
we find you? Primarily LinkedIn. I don't like

00:46:35.469 --> 00:46:39.429
Facebook, especially since they're now allowing

00:46:39.429 --> 00:46:43.070
anybody to say anything, no matter how true or

00:46:43.070 --> 00:46:48.150
not true. And I canceled my Twitter account several

00:46:48.150 --> 00:46:52.909
months ago. So primarily LinkedIn, and Medium

00:46:52.909 --> 00:46:56.289
is another social media that I use. Yes, I've

00:46:56.289 --> 00:46:58.829
been hearing medium a lot too. One of the I want

00:46:58.829 --> 00:47:00.969
to say David when you just said that about Facebook,

00:47:01.190 --> 00:47:04.269
I really think right now that we need to be teaching

00:47:04.269 --> 00:47:08.159
our. next generation, how to vet, how to understand

00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:10.980
sources, how to not just listen to something

00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:14.179
and go, oh, I read this and I'm going to now

00:47:14.179 --> 00:47:16.260
go on and I'm going to repeat it to everyone

00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:19.239
else. Like it's a hundred percent real. And so

00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:21.360
I think classes, there needs to be, remember

00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:22.900
when we used to go to the library and learn how

00:47:22.900 --> 00:47:25.139
to like find what we needed in a little library

00:47:25.139 --> 00:47:27.719
boxes and search. We need to go back to that

00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:30.719
again, because don't just believe what you don't

00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:32.659
just believe what you see either don't believe

00:47:32.659 --> 00:47:35.219
what you read all the time source it don't believe

00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:37.920
videos they could be ai i've seen some crazy

00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:40.840
ai videos and even myself oh before i let you

00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:43.280
go i will share with you because i could be very

00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:47.119
naive and in the 80s when i first learned that

00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:49.980
like julia roberts on people's magazine was like

00:47:49.980 --> 00:47:52.440
photoshopped i couldn't believe it for years

00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:54.769
i thought that That was what they look like.

00:47:55.170 --> 00:47:57.650
And so same thing now. We need to just be smarter,

00:47:57.750 --> 00:48:00.190
be smarter than Adrian and make sure you vet

00:48:00.190 --> 00:48:02.010
everything. So I just have to say that I really

00:48:02.010 --> 00:48:04.389
appreciate that you and don't. And that means

00:48:04.389 --> 00:48:07.809
coaches and consultants right now are popping

00:48:07.809 --> 00:48:10.710
up. I mean, would you like someone that is like

00:48:10.710 --> 00:48:13.510
David, but in her 20s, I'm not going to be insulting,

00:48:13.510 --> 00:48:16.530
but this takes years of understanding. David

00:48:16.530 --> 00:48:19.050
shared with us all of the places that he worked.

00:48:19.289 --> 00:48:23.159
This is true seasoned wisdom. that you want to

00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:26.539
take with David. If you're looking to just sell

00:48:26.539 --> 00:48:29.539
this on TikTok, then David may not be the person.

00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:32.820
So make sure that you connect with David if you

00:48:32.820 --> 00:48:35.639
really are looking to have a successful product

00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.000
in the industry. So David, you're amazing. Thank

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.000
you so much for your time. You're lovely. Your

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:46.059
stories were great. And go forth and have a product

00:48:46.059 --> 00:48:50.019
-filled spicy day. Thank you. Thank you so much.

00:48:50.179 --> 00:48:52.539
That was great. And just to while we're ending

00:48:52.539 --> 00:48:55.460
this, this will be turned into a podcast. I have

00:48:55.460 --> 00:48:59.300
an amazing podcast producer myself. And so she

00:48:59.300 --> 00:49:02.059
will have this up pretty soon. And I'm going

00:49:02.059 --> 00:49:04.460
to end the stream and thank you.