The Podcast Formula That Made “You’re Wrong About” a Hit

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Good morning podcasting Morning
Chat.

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Today is Monday, December 15th,
2025, and today we're breaking

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down the You're Wrong About
Podcasts, Clear brand promise,

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Empathy First storytelling, and
how it reframes familiar stories

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to keep listeners hooked.
So if you're listening live on

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Clubhouse, hit the share button,
bottom left hand side of the

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screen and share it.
However, Clubhouse lets you.

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And if you're catching us via
podcast chat or YouTube,

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Facebook, please share this with
a fellow podcaster.

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Now give us about 30 seconds.
We'll get things rolling.

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Thanks for being here.
Good morning again podcasting,

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morning chat.
Thanks so much for being here.

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I am your host Mark Ronik and
currently on stage with me.

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My Co hosts we have producer
Ashley Feller, Jonathan Howard,

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Dr. Faye, Nick Nalback, BC
Babbles, Ralph E Step and Sid

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Meadows.
A full house indeed.

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Thank you all for being here
today.

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And a shout out to our first
audience members.

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One just disappeared on me as I
was shouting him out.

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Tim, who was sitting here
chatting with us in the chat,

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and Bez as well.
Good morning to you, Sir.

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Yeah, And everybody's talking
about the wintry weather.

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Yes, winter is definitely here.
And I know I've seen a lot of

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areas of the country getting
blanketed with snow.

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I was asked before the show
started what the weather was

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like here.
And we had some warmer weather

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here in the Asheville, Western
North Carolina area this past

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weekend.
Yesterday it was chillier, like

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45.
Today, it's definitely cold.

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Tim said it in the chat.
It was 19 there.

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Yeah, it's 19 here as well.
OK, before we dig into all of

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the things, I do want to briefly
wish those who celebrate a happy

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Hanukkah.
And I was raised Jewish as an

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adult, not really a practicing
religious person of any kind.

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Spiritual, yes, but not much as
far as practicing a religion

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these days.
But I do like to acknowledge

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these holidays and they are part
of my tradition growing up.

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And I know it may feel strange
to honor a festival.

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Festival of light.
While we're aware of the tragedy

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that occurred in Australia
yesterday, Hanukkah is about

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choosing to keep the light
burning even when darkness feels

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overwhelming.
So today, that feels like a

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reminder worth holding on to as
we move forward together.

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And please, let's, regardless of
your beliefs, I do hope that the

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people listening to this show
value and respect human life.

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And we lost at least 15 lives as
of the last time I looked from

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that tragedy in Australia, and
many others injured from that as

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well.
So let's keep those people in

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our thoughts, please.
As far as the business of this

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show goes, this Thursday is our
podcast evaluation series.

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This time we're doing something
a little different with the type

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of show we're going to be
evaluating.

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It's a solo show, but that's not
what's different about it.

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These are 5 minute episodes.
The show is called Shared

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Delights, Your true stories and
Funniest moments.

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Let me tell you just briefly
about it.

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It's a bi weekly and as I said,
solo show.

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It's an audio only podcast for
busy humans who want a light,

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uplifting reset through short,
true and funny stories.

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And since they are 5 minute
episodes, we'll try to share our

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thoughts on a couple of those
episodes.

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But I think we'll have plenty to
chat about and looking forward

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to hearing what the gang has to
say about this.

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These episodes they are.
I find them fun and entertaining

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and looking forward to breaking
them down and learning from what

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she's doing right and maybe what
she could be doing better.

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Her name, the host Rica, she's
from Hungary, I think now living

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in the UK and English is not her
first language.

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In fact, it's a more recent
language she's added to her

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arsenal of languages.
So looking forward to chatting

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about that.
We'll do that Thursday.

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And also wanted to just say,
since Jonathan's going to be

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leading the charge today for the
obsession worthy podcast

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breakdown, I do want to first
say, Jonathan, good morning to

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you and wanted to acknowledge
you've got a new addition to the

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family coming hopefully today,
right?

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Yes, hopefully today I will be
dry.

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I'm actually leaving right after
this, heading down to New Jersey

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to pick him up.
Yesterday, the snow canceled it.

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Yeah, yeah.
OK.

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And kind of dog.
And what are we naming the dog?

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He is an Alaskan clique, which
is a miniature Alaskan Husky,

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and his name is Jack.
Jack Frost to be exact.

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Oh, nice.
So, and now, is that the name

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you gave the dog or is he coming
with that name and you're

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keeping it?
So he had the name Jack I gave

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him.
I was going to name him Frost,

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but I was like, well, they work
together.

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I love it.
Well, good luck.

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How long have a drive?
Is that from New York?

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Where?
You 4 hours, OK?

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Four hours each way, yeah.
Wow.

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OK, that's commitment.
But yeah, yeah.

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And the last question, you have
two other dogs.

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Are you bringing them or is it
going to just be the two of you

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on your ride home?
Just going to be the two of us

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on the ride home unless I
convince my dad to drive, which

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I'm still working on.
OK, cool.

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Well today, Jonathan, you picked
You're Wrong About That, the

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podcast that's been going on for
a while now.

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I know that this particular
episode we're going to be

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digging into is from 2019, but
they still have episodes

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publishing, I believe to this
very day.

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So they've been doing it for a
while.

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And this one is on Tonya
Harding.

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It's a two-part series.
We're going to be breaking into

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Part 1.
But before we do, Dr. wanted to

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say something, so let's check in
with her.

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Go ahead, Dr. You were saying
that it's been around for a

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while.
You know, as soon as I brought

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up the episode, I recognized the
cover art like right away.

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Oh, so you've seen this floating
around before?

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Oh my gosh.
Oh, yeah.

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So I mean, that speaks to its
branding.

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As soon as I saw the cover art,
I'm like, oh, OK, OK, I know

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what I'm getting into now, OK.
Yeah, I'm really curious to hear

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other episodes now after
listening to this one, just to

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get a feel for more of what they
do.

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But yeah, they're new to me.
I hadn't actually.

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I mean, I'm sure the name has
come up at some point in my

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podcasting career, but it's just
not.

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It didn't ring a bell and I'd
never heard the show before, so

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I was glad to be introduced to
this one.

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Now, I think a great way to
introduce everybody to this

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show.
If you haven't listened, that's

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OK.
We want to still, we've got

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clips for you to keep you in the
loop.

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And I thought this is off script
from Jonathan, but he did give

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me permission, permission to do
this.

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I thought a cool way to do this
is let's hear the beginning of

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this podcast all together so we
can get a little familiar.

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And I have it broken into two
parts.

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So here is Part 1 of the intro
of You're Wrong About and that's

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the episode Tonya Harding Part
1.

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People do not understand that,
like both of us are like curled

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up in extremely bad recording
positions and that like our

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backs hurt.
Like we just have to take.

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A break and that we love Tonya
Harding, but we're also in our

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30s.
Welcome to You're Wrong About

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the Podcast, where we spin
around but always keep our eyes

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focused on what spot.
Wait, wait, no, I get up.

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What?
Welcome to You're Wrong About

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the Podcast, where we spin
around furiously but keep our

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eyes on one spot so we never get
dizzy.

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Well, I had three weeks to come
up with that.

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You can't look at any one thing
when you're spinning.

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No, but isn't this how they do
it to keep from getting dizzy?

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Or do they just get really
dizzy?

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No, I think your inner ear just
changes you just when you start

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doing the fast spins and after a
while your body adjusts.

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Really.
I think so.

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I was also going to say welcome
to your wrong about the podcast

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where we do a triple Lutz
through history.

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Oh, that's nice.
I think they're both bad anyway.

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I like triple Lutz through
history, using our toe picks to

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set the record straight.
I am Michael Hobbs.

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I'm a reporter for The
Huffington Post.

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I'm Sarah Marshall and I'm
working on the book about the

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Satanic Panic.
And if you want to support the

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show, we are on patreon.com/your
Wrong About and today we are

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talking about Nancy Kerrigan and
Tonya Harding.

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There you go, That is the first
part of the show.

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Only criticism.
I know this isn't technically

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our evaluation series.
And the only thing I didn't love

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is that music that played during
and after the clip.

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The music, you know, that's
their choice and that's fine.

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And I found that it dragged in
between when that little clip

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played and then when they
actually officially started the

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show.
I thought it dragged and it was,

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it's kind of some people, it may
come off as a little bit

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annoying that that whole thing
there.

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And then the fact that it
dragged.

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I I thought maybe they could
tighten that up a little bit.

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But I do like the banter.
I do like them kind of just

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kicking it off very casually and
I like that they made a mistake

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and they kept it in there anyway
and just had a good laugh about

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it, showing that authentic side.
These are great things to think

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about, even for new, new
audiences.

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I think that this helps an
audience start to connect with

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those hosts much quicker, if you
will, and they go on and banter

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a little bit more.
But look, I'll say it like this,

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and I, and I wrote this down so
I wouldn't forget.

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I think the banter at the
beginning of a podcast works if

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it's intentional and it doesn't
drag on.

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I choose to believe that this is
intentional, that they do that,

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that they incorporate a little
bit of banter.

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And I like how also this
particular piece of banter ties

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the actual episode to them.
I'll play it right before, right

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after I hear from BC, Go ahead
BC.

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Just want to say before anyone
goes out there and starts

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spinning around, as someone who
took modern dance in college,

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your ear does not adjust at all.
You definitely have to pick a

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see either spot on the wall and
keep it focused.

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Otherwise, your face does
acquire an informal introduction

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to the floor.
BC you have some dance

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experience.
I'm not going to say I'm good.

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I'm not going to find footage of
me doing it anywhere.

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All I'm saying is I took a
little class in undergrad.

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It was a little fun piece, but I
did learn that one thing.

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You better find a spot and keep
an eye on it and do not just

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spin crazy.
OK, there you go.

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Who knew you would come to a
podcast about podcasting and

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learn about dancing?
But I guess that's going to

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happen when you have something
like a Tonya Harding episode.

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I know she's not a dancer, but
ice skating, you know, similar

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idea.
This is our Ulysses.

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Yeah, thank you for not psyching
me out at all.

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This is our no hitter.
And it's also our 50th episode.

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It's our 50th episode.
Can you believe that we're

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Golden Girls as of this episode,
And even after recording 50

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episodes of a show that has
brought amazing people into our

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lives and allowed us to connect
with human beings in a wonderful

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way, I'm still recording on the
floor of my closet in my teenage

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bedrooms.
And some things don't change,

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which is reassuring in this
Hurley burly cosmos.

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00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,040
But this is, this is like a big
episode for us because, yeah,

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the story of Tonya Harding is
like how we met, basically that

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you wrote this article about
Tonya.

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Tonya Harding is the Colin Radio
show in the Sleepless in Seattle

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00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:50,040
of our lives.
Yes, So background.

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Sarah wrote an incredible
article.

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What is it four years ago now?
That was 5 1/2 years ago.

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And that is basically how we
met, because I wrote you an

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e-mail after that I had never
heard of you and I wrote to you

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00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,840
saying you are amazing.
I can't wait to see what you do

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00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,560
next.
Again, love the banter, I

227
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:10,200
appreciate the banter and I love
the tie in that there is

228
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:14,960
actually a connection between
the two hosts and the Tonya

229
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,520
Harding story.
As a new listener, they hooked

230
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,080
me.
I wanted to keep listening after

231
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,120
that and they hadn't really even
gotten into the main topic other

232
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,800
than saying that it's a
connection between the two of

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00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,000
them.
By the way, I'm falling over my

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00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,280
words today probably because I
woke up around 2:30 this morning

235
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,640
and didn't really get a lot of
sleep after that.

236
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,000
So I think my brain is a little
tired this morning.

237
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,040
OK, so with that, let's go to
Jonathan.

238
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,840
Jonathan, good morning.
Please let's dig in to this

239
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,800
obsession worthy podcast.
Good morning.

240
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,560
This is a definitely obsession
worthy.

241
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:53,120
It does a lot of things really,
really well.

242
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,400
And I just want to comment on
what you were saying.

243
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,000
That banter kind of floats into
the episode because they never

244
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,280
get really formal, but they are
very, very well informed.

245
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,960
So the conversation is informal
but well informed and that we'll

246
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,320
talk a little bit more about
that later.

247
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,280
But I personally enjoyed their
connection there.

248
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,760
And this was like the 5th or 6th
episode I'd listen to.

249
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,000
So they definitely have that
connection.

250
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,760
But so the show, just in case
you don't know what it does, it

251
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:24,280
digs into the messy, complicated
truth behind things that we

252
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,760
already think we understand.
So it's like journalism, it's

253
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,640
like a therapy session for us.
It's history, it's all sorts of

254
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,600
good things because it really
taps into like this cultural

255
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,760
tension and we have all this
information, but we don't know

256
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,160
how it fits with certain things.
So it really dives into the

257
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,520
nuances of humanity and gives us
a lot to to think about.

258
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,280
And I want to actually say that
it nails its brand promise right

259
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,000
from the beginning because it's
brand promise is you weren't

260
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,400
wrong.
The world misled you.

261
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,280
And every single episode they
hit on this.

262
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,800
And I think that's something
that's really, really important

263
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,560
because when we hit on our
promise, we are building trust

264
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,280
each and every time.
So I think there's some

265
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,640
something that they do very,
very well and something that we

266
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,040
can take away from this podcast
particularly.

267
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,920
I wanted to say I get the
impression from reading about

268
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,920
the podcast that they are trying
to, yes, show us a different

269
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,560
side of something that we know
or we think we know.

270
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,800
But I also felt like maybe it
was going to be a more non bias

271
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,600
approach.
But to me it felt like they

272
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,480
were.
The whole purpose of the episode

273
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,760
was is to convince us that, you
know, the story we knew was

274
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,080
actually not true.
So which of the two, Jonathan,

275
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,000
would you say they lean toward?
I would say they have picked

276
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,600
their side and their argument,
but I also think that if they

277
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,880
were to be fair and balanced in
how they presented it, it may

278
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,920
not hit as well as it did.
Yeah, I think you're right about

279
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,760
that, because clearly they
really wanted to to show us that

280
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,280
there was another side to Tonya
Harding.

281
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,080
And I think if they wanted to
kind of explore the entire

282
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,040
thing, they would have given us
two more, Nancy Kerrigan more.

283
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,280
What happened?
I think that was definitely

284
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,280
purposeful.
Let's set up the first clip,

285
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,200
which is they start the show
from the wrong story.

286
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,200
And by wrong story, I mean the
story that we all know.

287
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,800
In this clip, Sarah setting up
the conversation about Tonya

288
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,800
Harding, but instead of like
diving into her research right

289
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,400
off the bat, she actually asked
her Co host what he remembers

290
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,680
about Tonya.
And that's the first clip.

291
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,720
As someone who grew up in in the
Northwest, because Tonya Harding

292
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,960
of course is is from Oregon, did
you have an experience of her at

293
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,880
the time that she became
momentarily the most famous girl

294
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,400
in the world?
I mean, I think I swallowed the

295
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,080
narrative that everyone in
America swallowed.

296
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,800
I mean, it wasn't until I read
your piece till I realized how

297
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,560
much coded language there was in
the story of Tonya Harding about

298
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,920
sort of her being trashy and her
being sort of skanky somehow.

299
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,560
I mean, This is why the piece
was so revelatory to me and why

300
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,960
I think these pieces resonate so
much people now is because all

301
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,560
it takes is for somebody to
point something out to you.

302
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,280
And it immediately clicks that I
did hate her because I kind of

303
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,120
thought she was white trash.
And as soon as somebody points

304
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:32,160
that out to you, you're like, oh
shit, that is what I was doing.

305
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:37,160
Yeah, so Tonya Harding became
notorious after Nancy Kerrigan,

306
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,440
who was her primary rival in the
US figure skating world.

307
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,360
They had been competing against
each other for like 7 years at

308
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:48,000
the time.
Was assaulted at the 1994 US

309
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,800
Figure Skating Championships by
someone who appeared out of

310
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,280
nowhere and clubbed her on the
side.

311
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:59,120
And The thing is, what we all
remember is her being clubbed.

312
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,680
We don't really remember that.
Like weeks earlier, Tonya

313
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,760
Harding had completed the first
triple Axel ever by a female in

314
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,280
skating.
But female, US female, like we

315
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,840
just remember the clubbing.
So by starting with that, it

316
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,840
normalizes where what everybody
remembers so that when they try

317
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,400
it, when they go towards talking
about the other side, we still

318
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,800
feel seen even though we don't
know the other side of the story

319
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,000
necessarily.
So I think that is a really

320
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,560
smart strategy for them to talk
about what we know and.

321
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,600
I what I like also here is that
the host and the Co host,

322
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,880
they're doing in a way where
what, what's the gentleman's

323
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,200
name again?
Michael.

324
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,400
To me, Michael is representing
the audience, right?

325
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,760
Like he's the one that he's
there representing us.

326
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,160
He's going to be asking the
questions that we might be

327
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,120
thinking, and they're really
framing it that way.

328
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:57,320
The host is asking, OK, tell me
what your impressions are.

329
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,080
What do you remember about Tonya
Harding?

330
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,800
And that really is also a
question for the audience that's

331
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,280
going to get their heads
thinking about it and then

332
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,880
hearing probably something very
similar when Michael explains

333
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,120
his his version of what he knows
of Tonya Harding.

334
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,320
And the lesson from this is that
stories can be framed in many

335
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,920
different ways, but always lean
towards framing the story where

336
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,360
your audience feels seen,
especially if you're ultimately

337
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,640
looking to change their opinion
on the subject.

338
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:31,440
So just a strategy that you can
use because that way they see

339
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,080
that you understand them and
they're willing to be more open

340
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,320
to seeing the alternative.
I think that's a good take away

341
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,480
if you have a podcast with a Co
host and you guys are covering

342
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,560
whatever it is information to
think about.

343
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,920
OK, who of us today?
Because maybe it switches from

344
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,760
episode to episode, but you
know, which one of us today is

345
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,160
going to be playing more of the
role of the audience or at least

346
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,480
being the the representative for
the audience and which one's

347
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,000
going to be more of the guide of
this episode.

348
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,960
I think it helps a lot when as
far as keeping our audience in

349
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,040
mind when we're creating the
content.

350
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,320
Well, I have some practical ways
that we can actually do that.

351
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,560
Let's go to Sid.
Go ahead, Sid.

352
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,240
Good morning.
Good morning, everybody.

353
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,160
When I realized this was about
Tonya Harding, I was like, oh

354
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,040
man, I lived through that,
right?

355
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,120
I don't know that I really want
to listen to this.

356
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:23,160
And I'm kind of like the Co
host.

357
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,760
I thought she was white trash
and not worthy of anything,

358
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,040
right?
This episode totally changed my

359
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,760
perspective on that.
It helped me to understand her a

360
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:34,920
little bit, what she was going
through.

361
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,120
I had no idea about the years of
abuse.

362
00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:42,520
It was also very interesting to
hear about the whatever it's the

363
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,760
International Skating Federation
and how they kind of control you

364
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,840
and make sure that you live up
to certain standards and they

365
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,440
tell you what to do, what not to
do.

366
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,760
Like when she was divorced, Day
told her it was better for her

367
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,520
image if they stayed married and
those kind of things.

368
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,640
So I mean, I really enjoyed
this.

369
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,960
I did not think I would, but I
do think that the storytelling

370
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,800
on this was like on point.
I was captured with this the

371
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,000
whole time.
Yeah, I agree with you and the

372
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,120
storytelling.
Yeah, it was on point, and I

373
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:16,760
think Jonathan pointed it out
earlier just how well prepared

374
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,280
they were with information.
They really did their homework,

375
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,200
did their research, and it
showed throughout the whole

376
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,160
episode.
I don't know if they were

377
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,640
following a script, but I I
loved the casual nature of this.

378
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,360
A couple of times you can tell
they were going in for

379
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:34,400
researchers.
One point they watched a video,

380
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,160
which is unfortunate for audio
listeners, right?

381
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,600
But I don't know if they were
following a script kind of like

382
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,080
you follow in the morning Mark
what is a run a show?

383
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,040
But the casual nature of how
they bantered back and forth was

384
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,880
very enjoyable.
It was very easy to listen to.

385
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,120
I didn't feel it at all, like I
was listening to some deep

386
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,840
scripted show.
Yeah, I've got to think that

387
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,600
they had notes or an outline or
something because.

388
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:04,200
And at the same time, it was
very clear that she was a huge

389
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,320
Tonya Harding fan, so she
probably had a lot of that to

390
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,160
memory, too.
But I've got to think they had

391
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,280
some sort of outline to follow.
And yeah, I noticed that point

392
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,440
too, where they go to a video to
watch something and we don't get

393
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,120
to see it when we're just kind
of hearing their reactions.

394
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,920
And this is something to note.
They are not a video podcast.

395
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,880
They don't do video.
And as a matter of fact, you go

396
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,520
to YouTube and look at that
podcast, this particular

397
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,880
episode, and all it is is audio
with some B roll going the whole

398
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,440
time.
I think it's actually of

399
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,880
different shots of a record
spinning on a record player just

400
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,400
at different angles the whole
time.

401
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,240
So they're very I think they're
aware of the fact that you what

402
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,440
they're doing.
And it still works to me for me,

403
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,040
like it doesn't bother me.
This is something we've talked

404
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,680
about recently.
And I think as long as you are

405
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,360
making it clear what you're
doing, that you you are reacting

406
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:03,320
to the thing that we can't see
as an audience, I'm OK with

407
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,760
that.
It's not going to make me leave

408
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,760
the podcast if I'm interested in
the content.

409
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,520
Ralph, I think you had
something.

410
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,320
Did anyone else notice a little
bit of an audio issue between

411
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,000
the guy and the girl?
I just thought there was a

412
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,040
little bit of a opportunity
there for them to fix that

413
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,400
because his audio seemed a bit
lower to me now.

414
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,440
I was just, I was just when I
was exercising this morning, but

415
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,680
I just felt like there was a
little bit of a difference

416
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:27,600
there.
Yeah, I think.

417
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,720
And also his audio was a little
echoey.

418
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,720
And I'll say this, that this
again was from 2019.

419
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,880
So I'd like to think that maybe
they've made some adjustments,

420
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,240
improvements over time, but
maybe not, who knows, Maybe

421
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,960
that's the charm of their show.
It's clearly been working for

422
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,880
them, right?
They've they've been going on

423
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,000
for years and years now and
continue to do so.

424
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,680
I think they've got an audience
regardless of the, we'll call it

425
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,920
subpar audio.
I did notice that I have that

426
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,680
written here, average audio
quality.

427
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,200
And for that matter, let's just
say their show notes were super

428
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,520
average as well.
It was one paragraph basically.

429
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,880
And there were some links as
well, but that that was about

430
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,520
it.
And I'm not knocking them.

431
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,160
Just just an observation,
something to think about.

432
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:17,880
Here's a really popular podcast
that's somewhat breaking the

433
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,520
rules and doing just fine.
They also said in this episode

434
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,800
that they were still recording
in closets and like sitting on

435
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,360
the floor.
So they're making it

436
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,080
approachable or they've
improved.

437
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,840
I've listened to a couple later
episodes and I think the audio

438
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,840
is a little bit better, but it
is also just her hosting now.

439
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,480
Oh, so he left.
He did, yeah.

440
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,800
She has a guest come in
regularly for the episodes but

441
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,600
yeah it is just her hosting now.
Got it.

442
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,840
Shall we move forward?
Yeah, let's actually hit the

443
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,800
second clip because something
that Sid mentioned, I think that

444
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,000
is kind of part of my second
clip, which is I talk about

445
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,360
nerding out, but keeping it
conversational.

446
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,320
So in this clip you'll notice
that the host is totally nerding

447
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,080
out about specifics, especially
the, I think the triple Axel and

448
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,200
the how you actually do it.
It's like really nerding out.

449
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,360
There's details, names, all that
sort of stuff, but it's not a

450
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,080
lecture.
So let's hit that second one.

451
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,880
It's famous for gems.
Tonya Harding's calling card was

452
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,200
that in 1991 she became the
first American woman and the

453
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,800
second woman in the world after
Midori Ito from Japan to land a

454
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,520
triple axle jump in competition.
The axle is the hardest jump

455
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,840
because all of the other jumps
let's toe, loop, flip, etcetera.

456
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,240
You come into backwards, you
skate to get your momentum, you

457
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,520
turn backwards and then you take
off backwards and land the jump

458
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,360
backwards.
So you complete 3 revolutions

459
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:46,440
and when you do the axle, you
take off facing front and then

460
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,040
complete 3 1/2 revolutions and
land backwards.

461
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,200
You need that much more lift,
you need that much more time in

462
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,400
the air, so you need that much
more power to get off and then a

463
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,680
lot of other jumps.
When you take off backwards you

464
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,440
use your toe pick, which we all
know from the cutting edge.

465
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,240
It's a little rough part of the
front of the skate that.

466
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,080
Did I miss it?
Did she?

467
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,480
Is she a figure skater?
I mean, she has to be, right,

468
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:10,840
Jonathan.
I mean, it's just unless she's

469
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,520
just really good at.
She's really good at educating

470
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,840
herself and she had is obsessed
with the triple Axel.

471
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,840
Obsessed.
I mean, there's a lot of talk

472
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,360
about it, yeah.
OK, got it.

473
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,400
I would have pegged her as a
figure skater for sure based on

474
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,760
the way she talked.
And she goes through this, she

475
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,600
explains.
This whole clip goes on for a

476
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,800
little bit.
She explains You know about

477
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,720
Tonya being the first American
woman, only the second woman

478
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,840
after Midori Ito.
She lays out Tanya specific

479
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,560
history like skating since the
age of 3 or 4, competing

480
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,360
internationally, skating at the
mall, training before dawn.

481
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:46,480
Mom drives her to the rink at
4:30 AM.

482
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,120
Like all of the specifics, but
it still remains conversational.

483
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:53,680
And Michael, who's the Co host,
will interject at times with

484
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,520
just some, you know, hey, this
happened or this, you know,

485
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,240
whatever he wants to respond.
But it's normal human

486
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,160
interjections.
Like it doesn't feel staged.

487
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,320
It feels really conversational.
And then she she randomly drops

488
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,720
in some context about the
Clackamas, Clackamas County and

489
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,480
the brutal upbringing, including
Levana, who is Tanya's mother,

490
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,960
showing up on the Montel
Williams show at some point.

491
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,960
So details.
Painted as the villain, you

492
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,320
know, based on all the stories
that were we hear in this

493
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,600
episode, yeah.
Yeah, definitely a lot of that

494
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,240
and but there's just a lot of
detail.

495
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,880
By the way, real quick, I'm
going to steer us off course and

496
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,960
back to, you know, we were just
talking a moment ago about

497
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,320
things like the fact that they
have average audio quality and

498
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,320
the average or simple show
notes.

499
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,840
And that reminded me, Nick, you
were sharing something about the

500
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,360
title because you were having a
hard time finding the episode

501
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,280
when you wanted to go listen to
it.

502
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,560
Did you want to share a little
bit and give some feedback on

503
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,160
that?
Say good morning everybody.

504
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:58,320
I had a hacked weekend this
weekend at packed house.

505
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,040
So I was planning to catch some
of this episode this morning and

506
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,480
when I went looking for it in my
podcast Player, I had a really

507
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,760
hard time finding it.
One, because there are so many

508
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:15,160
episodes and two, there are no
episode numbers in the title so

509
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,240
I didn't even know where about
this.

510
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,960
Fell into the whole podcast.
So I scrolled for probably a

511
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,640
good 5-10 minutes.
Jumped between Apple podcasts,

512
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,440
the web view.
So I'm on Android and back to my

513
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,280
show like player just try to
find it and I ended up giving up

514
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,120
on it.
I thought this was a prime

515
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:37,880
example of why it I personally
think it is important,

516
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,200
especially if you have a long
running show or plan to have

517
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,280
episode numbers in the title,
because I would have immediately

518
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,840
been able to just jump straight
to that episode instead of

519
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,400
spending all those time going
back and forth.

520
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,760
And for this, I put in more
effort to try to find it here so

521
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,160
that I could kind of be up to
date with everything going on.

522
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,120
If I'm just a casually listening
to a podcast episode, there's no

523
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,200
way I put in like really any
effort to try to find it.

524
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,600
And if I can't find it
immediately, I'm skipping.

525
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,560
I'm going on.
Yeah, I don't understand why

526
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,800
these layers, the actual podcast
apps, why they aren't displaying

527
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,400
the the episode numbers for us.
We have to put episode numbers

528
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,000
in, right?
Like if I'm using Spotify for

529
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,920
creators and uploading an
episode of the podcasting

530
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,280
morning chat, there's a section,
yes, it's optional, but there is

531
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,680
a section that says that gives
you the opportunity to put your

532
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,280
season number and your episode
number.

533
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,280
If I'm putting that in there,
why aren't you displaying it for

534
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,760
me?
Spotify and other platforms for

535
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,200
that matter?
And that's why a lot of us feel

536
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,960
obligated to put the episode
number in our title, even though

537
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,720
some may say it's a bad move,
it's a bad strategic move when

538
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,280
it comes to SEO.
And so I've been back and forth.

539
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,560
I've put it in, I've taken them
out, and currently we're not

540
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,120
using them in the show titles.
But I'm feeling really guilty

541
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:58,920
about it.
I feel like it, especially with

542
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,720
our show that's five days a
week, it's really challenging

543
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,720
for people to find a specific
episode number.

544
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,160
And I can't refer to episode
numbers because I know it's not

545
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,000
going to mean anything to them.
They're not going to be able to

546
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,400
find it that way.
That's a challenge for sure.

547
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,560
I have a question for Jonathan.
Jonathan, do you know when

548
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,800
Michael left the show?
I don't the.

549
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,160
Only reason why I'm asking is
because I'm taking a look right

550
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:31,800
now of all the titles and from
most recent to least recent and

551
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:38,960
I can tell you that the newer
ones like in 20/25/2024, they

552
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,560
are not catching my interest at
all.

553
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:49,280
And everything around the Tonya
Harding era of their episodes

554
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,040
are like, oh, oh, look at that
one.

555
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,480
Oh, oh, you know, you know what
I'm saying?

556
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,840
Something took a change.
Something happened somewhere

557
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,160
along the line when it comes to
their subject matter and their

558
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,200
titles.
I can tell you I did a little

559
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,760
research here on the spot and
Michael Hobbs, the host, stepped

560
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:15,440
away in 2021, and the reason was
that it was time, According to

561
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,240
him, for a creative reset and to
focus on other projects.

562
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,120
So 2021 was when he left.
And he writes for the Huffington

563
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,160
Post, I believe, right I.
Think he does?

564
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,000
Yeah.
Yeah, I think so.

565
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,480
Titles are probably his strength
there.

566
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,520
Yeah, that could be interesting.
Although really titles, I mean

567
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,840
his episode, the episode titles
like of this one.

568
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,920
Tonya Harding Part 1.
Tonya Harding Part 2 Not not

569
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,680
that dynamic per SE.
Even but just subject matter is

570
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,520
what I'm saying subject matter?
All right, Jonathan, so that was

571
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,920
clip.
Yeah, that was clip 2.

572
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,520
And the lesson really is, you
know, it's awesome to do your

573
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,120
research but and know yourself,
but you got to be able to speak

574
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,320
in a way that's approachable to
your audience.

575
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,160
Because whether they, whether
it's, you know, the reading

576
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,360
level or the details or whatever
you want to do, if they don't

577
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,040
feel connected to it, they're
not going to connect to your

578
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,280
podcast.
So really, you can be the bet,

579
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,000
you can know all the details and
that's great.

580
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,400
Just make it approachable.
So that was definitely the

581
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,080
lesson from that particular one.
And if you want, I can give you

582
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,400
some tips for nerding out
appropriately for your podcast.

583
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:29,360
Do that really well here.
All the time, yes.

584
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,400
Well, and that's the thing.
We pick one technical thing that

585
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,640
we're really good at and your
audience has never had explained

586
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,960
properly.
And we really kind of dive into

587
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,080
those things and we spend real
time researching it.

588
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,720
But we explain it like we're
talking to a smart friend in a

589
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,480
coffee shop.
We're not given a webinar,

590
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,720
right?
So, and their bonus if you tie

591
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,280
it back to emotions because
those always connect better for

592
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,040
sure.
You want to hit that third clip.

593
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:58,160
This one is where we start to
really change, you know, see the

594
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,480
different side of Tanya.
So we're going to talk a little

595
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,000
bit about empathetic and
understanding discourse.

596
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,520
And, you know, later on, after
everything that happens, Tanya

597
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,400
is banned from skating.
And she's also essentially

598
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,080
blackballed from professional
skating, which is where, you

599
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:15,920
know, like stars on ice where
you skate for money.

600
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,400
You know, she describes this,
and I don't think this is

601
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,120
hyperbolic at all.
She describes this as her life

602
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,160
being taken away from her.
And it was like, not only was it

603
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,080
her vocation, not only was it
where she spent all of her time

604
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,920
and dedicated all of her effort,
but it was like, this was what

605
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,200
she was great at.
And she's someone who grew up

606
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,840
believing and who was told by
everyone who she trusted that

607
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,520
she was nothing.
And this was something where no

608
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,080
one could argue with the fact
that she was worth something and

609
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,920
that she could do what no one
else could do.

610
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:45,480
Yeah.
And losing that, yeah.

611
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,720
Here you go, Jonathan.
Even to me, hearing that full

612
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,440
interaction was like a gut punch
because it was they were very,

613
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,400
very good at at you know,
obviously they were on the side

614
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,320
of Tanya on this, but they were
very good at laying out some of

615
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,640
the details.
And that was like, wow, we

616
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,080
really did, you know, she really
did lose everything in the in

617
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,520
this situation.
Now, whether she's guilty or

618
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,960
not, she did lose everything and
it may not have been fully her

619
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,920
fault, but being banned and
blackballed for skating is

620
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,080
really like because Sonya was
spending every spare minute,

621
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,800
every spare dollar, everything
that she had to skate and she'd

622
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,880
been skating since she was 3 or
4 years old.

623
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,360
So losing that is losing an
identity.

624
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,360
So we really lies in this moment
that like everything in her life

625
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,120
was tied to skating and was she
dealt a fair hand?

626
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,520
And all right, Dr. I'm coming to
you because we were chatting

627
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,679
before the show and you were
listening to this Tanya episode

628
00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:47,840
1 or Part 1.
And I had said, yeah, it's

629
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,679
really starting to show me a
human side of her.

630
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:53,040
And you kind of said, and I'm
paraphrasing, you said the

631
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:58,080
jury's out still, right?
So I'm curious if your mind has

632
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,520
been changed.
I'll tell you what, this whole

633
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,840
Tanya experience, I mean,
because I was certainly old

634
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:09,240
enough to take it all in.
And the fallout, I mean, it went

635
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:16,160
on for years and years and it
got to be kind of a joke.

636
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,840
I mean, I remember an SNL
sketch, several SNL sketches.

637
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,880
And because of that, I'm not
even sympathetic to Nancy

638
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,800
Kerrigan anymore, just because
we were so saturated with the

639
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,000
whole thing.
Just to give some people

640
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,400
context, you may not know that
time or wasn't a part of that

641
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,400
time.
It was like what we saw at the

642
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,320
what was it?
Which concert was it?

643
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,400
The Coldplay concert, right?
Like when the when the couple

644
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,760
was caught on camera, it was
like that and then some, you

645
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,240
know, it was just non-stop
oration.

646
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,880
Is that a word of that story?
Yes.

647
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,000
It invaded my space every time I
turned on the TV.

648
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,240
There was something about it and
I just was.

649
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,480
My brain sponge was just way,
way too saturated.

650
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,480
I hear you so.
By the way, Ashley points out

651
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,000
that this story was as famous as
the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

652
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,960
Yeah, that definitely similar as
far as saturated, Yeah.

653
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,040
All right.
So Jonathan, where you want to

654
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,200
go from here?
So I'm going to push TR a little

655
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,440
bit and say there was also
several other boldly empathetic

656
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,400
moments in this podcast.
They empathy is something they

657
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,920
did really, really well.
You know, they talked about the

658
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,520
ruined first date due to her
half brother and the cops, and

659
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,760
that was crazy.
They also talk about, you know,

660
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,400
her is a beautiful little
Princess, beautiful, scrappy

661
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,680
little Princess, which was a
really tender moment.

662
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,080
But the moment that really,
truly hit me was when they read

663
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:52,040
from Tanya's autobiography and
she writes, my mom hit me and

664
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,720
she loved me.
So when he hit me, I thought he

665
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:58,080
loved me.
And that was like.

666
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:04,560
Wow.
So they did empathy this

667
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,600
podcast.
Empathy is like where they

668
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,720
shine.
They started out by treating

669
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:12,720
the, you know, Tanya as a person
that strives and they try to

670
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:16,320
tell her story and they correct
the false stories that were out

671
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,680
there or the flat out bias.
They do this really, really well

672
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,680
in say in willing to share the
villains side of the story

673
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,800
because a lot of these stories
there was a villain.

674
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,200
I mean, we can look at even the
Monica Lewinsky 1.

675
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,320
Monica Lewinsky was the villain,
you know, So there's telling the

676
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,040
story of the villain in a way
that opens our eyes.

677
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,440
These are good lessons for sure
for us, right?

678
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,440
It's like, yes, doing our
homework and having all of the

679
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,640
information, but really being
able to humanize the story and

680
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,480
not just spit out a bunch of
facts, but, you know, show that

681
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,480
empathetic side of the story
too.

682
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,760
Because as we know, emotion is
really the driving factor here.

683
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,040
When it comes to whether or not
you're going to be obsessed with

684
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,240
the podcast, If you can be
emotionally tied to it, that is

685
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:07,760
a sure bet that your podcast is
on its way to becoming obsession

686
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,960
worthy.
Well, Madam Dr. is being a

687
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,440
skeptic over here, so I want to
ask her.

688
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,680
You're having a hard time
thinking she actually wrote

689
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,280
that.
I mean, that to me, that segment

690
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,960
was like a gut punch because I
thought, wow, you really don't

691
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:27,200
know what people who have been
abused either physically,

692
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,360
emotionally or mentally, you
really don't know what they're

693
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,120
going through.
And I can certainly see the

694
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,880
parallel that she believed that
abuse from 1 equaled love.

695
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,000
So abuse from another would
equal love, right?

696
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,880
I mean, I can say I can
certainly see that.

697
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,080
So, Dr. You're being the
skeptic.

698
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:47,120
I am.
I just don't feel as though she

699
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,560
wrote that book on her own.
When I see her in interviews,

700
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:58,080
when I see her doing media
stuff, she's not that eloquent,

701
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,960
she's not that prolific.
She's just not.

702
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,920
Somebody could have written it
for her, but like that's so she

703
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,040
experienced those things.
Right, that's what I was going

704
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,960
to say is I know that there are
ghost writers all the time out

705
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,520
there, right?
That they are capturing the

706
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,400
story.
Look, it's like AI, right?

707
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,840
We're we're using AI to help us
tell our stories, right?

708
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:21,040
I use AII, take the transcripts
of our very words, then our very

709
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,920
thoughts and ideas and insights
sites, and I have it.

710
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,160
Help me craft a post for
LinkedIn, right?

711
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,000
And not every word in those
posts are mine, right?

712
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,840
Like I'll write the post and
then I'll have it rewrite it, or

713
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,320
I'll have the transcript and
I'll have it start a first draft

714
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,400
for me and then rewrite its
first draft.

715
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,280
So you know what's the
difference really, right?

716
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:50,840
Yeah, so in my head.
So in my head, I am seeing

717
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,960
someone write this book
entirely, and she's reading it.

718
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,520
And she says, oh, yeah, that
sounds good.

719
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,240
OK, that's a good part.
No, take that out.

720
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:01,680
Yeah, that's a good part.
That's a good part.

721
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,080
So that's what's going on in my
head.

722
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,360
And if people would like to join
me in my head, go right ahead.

723
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,720
I've learned working with Dr.
over the past couple years that

724
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,920
what she's a skeptic and once
she is skeptical it's very hard

725
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,520
to change her mind.
It doesn't matter what logic you

726
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:19,720
give her.
OK.

727
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,400
Sid, did you?
Were you going to say something?

728
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,640
And then I said shocker.
All right, So the one thing that

729
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,480
I wanted to say about this is
when you're dealing with

730
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,800
difficult moments and obviously
you're being empathetic, but one

731
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,840
of the most important things is
allow them the space they need

732
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,280
to land.
So when you're taught when they

733
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,920
did this very well, but just
keeping in mind that it needs a

734
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,160
little bit of space.
And a lot of times we edit our

735
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,640
podcast to take out any of the
space, and that's going to

736
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,400
actually negatively impact these
things landing and making the

737
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:49,720
impact that you want them to
have.

738
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,720
So just a little note on that.
The only other thing was that

739
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:55,480
not everybody else, everybody's
normal is your normal.

740
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,920
So empathy requires you to be
willing to look at the life of

741
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:02,240
another person in a different
lens.

742
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,720
Trying to put them in your shoes
is not going to be truly

743
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:08,000
empathetic because that's not
what they experienced.

744
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,680
Let's hit on the last clip that
we have.

745
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,560
That's definitely the moment
that they reframe the Tanya and

746
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,840
Nancy from.
Good girl.

747
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:19,200
First trashy villain into
something else.

748
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,200
It was sort of two versions of
femininity.

749
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,360
It was like, I remember Nancy
Kerrigan being this like beauty

750
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,600
pageant queen.
She was conventionally

751
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,760
attractive.
She was like graceful.

752
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,240
She had all this all the
feminine stuff that we pack into

753
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:36,560
figure skating and then we
expect of Figure skaters, that

754
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,960
daintiness, the sort of slow,
graceful ballet style movements.

755
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,680
And then on the other hand,
we've got Tonya Harding, who is

756
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,680
kind of seen as like somewhat
more masculine.

757
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,520
She's more powerful.
She's sort of a little bit more

758
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,320
like thickly built, like she's
less conventionally Abercrombie

759
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,920
and Fitch attractive.
And so no one ever put it this

760
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,400
way, I don't think.
But this like the way a woman is

761
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,320
supposed to be.
And then this like usurping

762
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,320
force of femininity of like
there's this other type of woman

763
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,200
who is like doing womanhood.
She's like Bane or something.

764
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,720
Yeah.
And it's so amazing because the

765
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:15,720
rhetoric of the time is so sad.
Like, no one ever came out right

766
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:19,040
and said this, but it was always
implied that she was somehow

767
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,120
monstrous.
And she was this, like, 23 year

768
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,240
old girl with, like, blonde hair
and a big ponytail.

769
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,880
She was 5 foot one.
She was like 100 lbs and.

770
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,760
Definitely seeing the the two
sides like you're saying.

771
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,680
And Mike kind of talks us
through how Nancy was that

772
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,680
elegant Princess and Tanya was
crude.

773
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,320
She was too muscular.
She was a working, working class

774
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:48,200
skater is what they referred to
her as a lot of times, which is

775
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,360
practically calling her white
trash in a nicer way.

776
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,320
They talked about a lot of the
details and what it means.

777
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,640
But in this moment, I was
suddenly hit with like, this

778
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,280
realization that I hadn't
made-up my own mind.

779
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,080
I wasn't looking at facts.
I was told what to believe by

780
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,280
the media at the time.
And it wasn't based on the

781
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,240
truth.
It was based on on the story

782
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:11,320
that they wanted to put out
there.

783
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,840
And that's what this podcast
does, is it?

784
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,560
And does it very, very well.
But it's reframing morality in a

785
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,040
lot of ways because we're
looking at what's right and

786
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,400
wrong and, you know, looking at
maybe facts.

787
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,600
And I know Dr. and, and I get
it, Dr. And I, I say this, not

788
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,520
everybody's going to come all
the way to the other side and

789
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,200
see Tanya as, you know, the
hero, because there was a lot of

790
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,520
stuff that happened there.
But it does give us a different

791
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,960
view and it makes us look at
ourselves and how we decide

792
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:48,160
what's right and wrong.
This shows also how we allow the

793
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,960
media narrative, right?
Like, and it's showing how

794
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,080
podcasting is changing where
people are getting their

795
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,280
information.
And it's not really showing

796
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,320
that, but it's a reason why I
think we're starting to see

797
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,240
people shift from getting their
information and news from

798
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,200
traditional mainstream media and
they're going to alternative

799
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,280
sources, whether it's TikTok for
their news or a podcast to get

800
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,400
more in depth analysis,
information, insight, etcetera.

801
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,240
This is one of the reasons why I
really appreciate podcasting is

802
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:23,200
that it gives us different
narratives and not just one

803
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,920
that's being shoved down our
throats.

804
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,800
So I know this is a 2 parter and
this is part one.

805
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:34,120
I'm not sure if I'm going to
listen to Part 2, but even as a

806
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:40,800
skeptic, I still want to know,
and I'm hoping that Tanya is

807
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,280
making Does she have money
coming in?

808
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,520
Is she making a living for
herself?

809
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,480
I don't want to know that she's
living in a you know what I

810
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,200
mean?
I want still to know that she is

811
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:57,840
productive and still going.
Does episode 2 let us know how

812
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,920
she's doing?
Well this was back in 2019 so

813
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:03,760
does anyone know how she's doing
now?

814
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:05,640
I don't.
No, I have not.

815
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,080
Actually.
Now I'm interested.

816
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,440
Now that you say that it's true.
It's where is she now?

817
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,600
Yeah.
I don't believe that she has

818
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,200
overcome all of the the
negativity from this experience

819
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,040
and I know she seems to be
making a living.

820
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:22,800
Here's what Gemini says when I
did a Google search.

821
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,160
Oh good, it says.
As of late 2025, Tonya Harding

822
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,320
lives a quieter life in
Southwest Washington, near

823
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:35,200
Vancouver with her husband
Joseph and their son, working as

824
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:39,840
a custodian, painter or hardware
clerk while recently returning

825
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,920
to the ice for fun and engaging
with fans online, particularly

826
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,640
on X.
It sounds like she's living more

827
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,400
of the, you know, everyday
American life.

828
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,680
And that's particularly greeting
to me because she was extremely

829
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:59,520
talented and I at least want her
to be like, to teach or to

830
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,800
coach, you know what I mean?
Now, Dr. Did you feel that way

831
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,520
before listening to this
episode?

832
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:05,880
Would you have felt that way if
I?

833
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,080
Brought her.
Up you would.

834
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,360
OK, yeah, I did.
Yeah.

835
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,880
Even though I was a skeptic on
the entire situation because I

836
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:17,000
was so saturated with it, I
still want to know that people

837
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,920
came out on the other side of it
still.

838
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,560
Yeah, recovered.
Recovered, Yeah.

839
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,560
Got it.
Well, I mean, look, all we got

840
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,200
were were facts there didn't say
if she's happy, unhappy,

841
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,960
etcetera.
But it sounds like she has moved

842
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,280
on and is living her life and
revisiting ice skating and

843
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,200
having fun doing so.
So there's that's a positive

844
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,720
step in the right direction.
Anything else, Jonathan?

845
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,200
I think that this podcast serves
a great reminder that not all is

846
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,080
as it seems, which is why, you
know, having the alternative

847
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,560
media is very useful.
And we may still view Tanya in a

848
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,320
negative light like Dr. does,
but you can also see that

849
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,640
there's more than one side of
the story and the story that we

850
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,880
were given wasn't.
It's the full truth.

851
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:02,200
So as podcasters, we may not
view what we do is important,

852
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,240
but we do share stories, connect
with people, and have a bigger

853
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:08,200
impact than we even know.
So be aware of your impact,

854
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,240
respect the people you serve,
take the moral High Road, and

855
00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:14,360
always be willing to accept that
you are wrong about something.

856
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,480
Agreed.
And as far as podcasting goes

857
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:22,880
and those takeaways, we heard
the clear brand promise and the

858
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:28,040
but more importantly that it
builds trust and we got context.

859
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,040
We got the idea that context
creates understanding, right?

860
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,440
In other words, we could tell
they invest a lot of time in the

861
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,640
background, the lived
experiences in the systems,

862
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,000
before focusing on that headline
moment.

863
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,080
That's the approach that helps
listeners understand how events

864
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,640
unfolded and why they even
mattered in the 1st place.

865
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,400
And of course, we learned about
the empathy.

866
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:57,520
That empathy strengthens
storytelling and they man, did

867
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,200
they have a lot of stories.
So I think that all of this is

868
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,920
is stuff that we can really stop
and think about.

869
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,040
Are we applying these sorts of
things?

870
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,000
Are we applying empathy?
Are we creating context that

871
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,720
makes makes it better to
understand?

872
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,240
Is it is there that clear
promise out there so that we can

873
00:48:16,240 --> 00:48:18,000
build the trust?
These are the things to think

874
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,520
about.
To piggyback off of that, you

875
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,080
know, I'm looking at all the
titles and the dates that these

876
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,400
were and it looked like it's
like once once a week, maybe

877
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,920
once every two weeks.
It's kind of inconsistent, but I

878
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,280
would be really interested in
their workflow because the

879
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:42,880
detail is so incredible that,
you know, I don't know if it was

880
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:47,680
at that time, if it was both
hosts working on or if it was

881
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:53,600
just the female that had this
incredible knowledge and, and

882
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,360
did all the research on this.
But there was a ton of research

883
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,600
done on this.
And again, some of it may have

884
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:05,880
been from the movie I, Tanya
that came out six months before.

885
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,600
And, you know, Ashley points out
something, too.

886
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,560
She would like to have seen
their sources cited in the show

887
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:12,800
notes.
I think that would have been

888
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:13,720
helpful.
Yeah.

889
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:16,200
And I don't know, Dr. I'm.
I'm inspired.

890
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,040
Maybe we'll reach out to the
show, reach out to this host and

891
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,560
see if we can learn a little bit
more about her workflow, if

892
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,160
she'd be willing to.
Share it with us.

893
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,120
Yeah, that'd be awesome.
Yeah.

894
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,520
Well, Jonathan, thanks for
another successful obsession

895
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,400
worthy podcast.
We will revisit these in 2026

896
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:39,360
because as I've shared recently,
this is the last week of

897
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,760
podcasting morning chat for
2025.

898
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,560
So yeah, we will keep doing
these in the new year.

899
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,080
I think that we've gotten good
feedback from our audience.

900
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,200
And thank you, Jonathan.
Appreciate you digging into this

901
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:52,360
one with us.
Thank you.

902
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,200
Thank you.
Good luck with I'll get some

903
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,160
ready for for 2026.
Thank you.

904
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,640
Keep us posted.
I'm sure if we're following

905
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,560
Jonathan, we will get as many
updates as possible there.

906
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:07,040
So check Jonathan out on social
media, Instagram, etcetera.

907
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,320
And we're back tomorrow and
every day the rest of the week,

908
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,240
7:00 AM Eastern live on
Clubhouse, YouTube, Facebook,

909
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:15,880
all the things.
And of course, if you can't

910
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,600
catch us live, you can catch us
a couple hours later on your

911
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,440
favorite podcasting platform.
And of course at podcasting

912
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,960
morning chat.com.
It looks like we're don't have

913
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,960
enough time to bring on bring up
people from the audience, so

914
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,520
please forgive us for that.
We will make sure tomorrow we

915
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:39,680
leave more time and more
conversation tomorrow during the

916
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,760
show.
So until then, make it a great

917
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,080
day.
Everybody take care.