7 Lessons You Can Learn From a Podcast Evaluation of a Gordon Lightfoot Podcast

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Good morning podcasting Morning
Chat.

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Today is Thursday, December
11th, 2025, and today our Indie

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00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,480
podcast evaluation series digs
into intros, emotional setups,

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SEO clarity and interview flow,
spotlighting Carefree Highway

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Revisited as a case study you
can learn from.

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So if you're listening live on
Clubhouse, hit the share button,

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bottom left hand side of the
screen and share it.

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However, Clubhouse lets you.
And if you're catching us via

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podcast chatter, YouTube,
Facebook, please share this with

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a fellow podcaster.
And now give us about 30

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seconds.
We'll get things rolling.

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Thanks for being here.
Good.

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Good morning again, podcasting,
morning chat.

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Sorry, I thought my mic wasn't
working there.

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I am your host Mark Ronick and
currently on stage with me.

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Another full house This morning
we have Nick Nallback, producer

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Ashley Feller, Dr. Faye, Ralph
Estep, BC Babbles, Phil better

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is back, Jonathan Howard, Sid
Meadows.

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Thank you all for being here
this morning to evaluate today's

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indie podcast.
And a good morning to Dave

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Campbell in the audience as
well.

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Dave, thank you.
I don't know if you heard

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yesterday 'cause I don't think
you were here live.

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I don't know if you heard
yesterday, but we read some, we

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read a letter from somebody who
sent us that note through our

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pod page and they had said how
much they love this show.

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And you were, I believe, one of
the people that turned him on to

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it.
So thank you for spreading the

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word.
Appreciate you.

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And also good morning to soda in
the chat this morning.

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I've been so does an old friend
of this community and hasn't

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been in this room a lot lately,
but she and I have kept in touch

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pretty closely and she's been
killing it over on TikTok trying

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to really crack that code.
And she's been doing all the

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things over there and has been
helping me a little bit as I've

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been just experimenting a little
more with TikTok, doing some

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lives.
I did one last week and feel

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better had joined me in there as
well.

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So yeah, thanks to you, Soda.
OK, I'm going to try to do this

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rapid fire so we can get right
to it because these episodes

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tend to take the full hour.
A quick note that we didn't get

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to yesterday in our news, we
talked about the Podcast Hall of

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Fame inductees and mentioned a
few of them.

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There were two that actually we
didn't mention that I feel awful

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about because I have personal
ties to two of them.

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First, Pat Flynn, he is going to
be inducted to the Podcasting

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Hall or Podcast Hall of Fame and
also the keynote speaker at Pod

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Fest, conveniently, because
that's where the Hall of Fame

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awards ceremony is happening.
But then the other thing that

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this really gets under my skin,
the other person that we forgot

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because it was Newsday
yesterday, Yeah.

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Do you have like applause, the
sound applause or

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congratulations or?
Anything I do, but I don't know

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where it is.
OK.

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I don't know where it is.
I'm not going to scramble.

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Good idea.
You know what, Ashley maybe can

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put that in post.
OK.

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But this is the funny, the
ironic part, if you will.

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It was Newsday we announced the
Hall of Farmers that are the

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inductees and failed to mention
Mr. Podcast News himself, James

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Cridlin from podnews.net.
So congratulations to James.

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Oh, thank you, Jonathan.
Jonathan always reminds me by

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doing that.
I forget that we can do that

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right here on Clubhouse.
We can add the cheering and

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applause, forget that there
isn't a little feature that does

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that.
So congratulations to James.

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If anyone deserves it, holy cow.
I'm surprised that he wasn't in

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it long before now.
Agreed, agreed And also Nick, as

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as quickly as you can, but worth
sharing because we didn't have

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this story yesterday, but a
story worth sharing regarding AI

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and creating content.
Nick, take it away a couple

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weeks ago, maybe it was a month
or two ago, we talked about how

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ChatGPT was incorporating apps
into the chatbot.

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So Mark used an example of
Spotify.

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He went and created a playlist.
He looked at Canva a little bit,

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actually connecting the app to
chat, DPD itself.

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And just yesterday they
announced that they are

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releasing apps for three Adobe
products.

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One is Adobe Photoshop 2 Adobe
Express and three Adobe Acrobat.

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So now if you turn on and
connect those apps, you can

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actually upload images and I
think possibly video.

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You might have to Fact Check me
on that one, but you can upload

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your content and actually have
the app edit your content for

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you.
You upload a photo and you say,

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hey, I want to add some
background blur to this.

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I want to increase the contrast,
brighten the image up a little

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bit, and it actually reaches out
to Photoshop to make those

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corrections for you.
And as far as I can tell, this

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is totally free to use.
But if you want to continue

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editing the photo or whatever
you're creating inside the

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application, that's when you
would ultimately need to use an

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Adobe subscription or have it
connected or bring it over into

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the actual Adobe app itself.
But they are integrating these

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apps directly inside ChatGPT.
So while you're talking, you can

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just say, hey, Adobe Photoshop,
make this image look better for

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me and boom, so cool in theory.
Thank you, Nick.

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Thanks for bringing that this
morning.

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And yeah, I encourage people to
check that out.

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That sounds like that could be a
very convenient, what do we call

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it, integration between those
two tools.

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So thank you, Nick.
Appreciate that.

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And let's get into today's
podcast evaluation, indie

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podcast evaluation.
We've been doing this every

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Thursday.
If you're new to the show and if

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you want to submit your podcast
for an evaluation, we keep a

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link in the show notes for you.
So feel free to check that out.

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Click that link and apply today.
No cost to you unless you want a

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private evaluation.
That's another discussion.

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But yes, the today's podcast
Carefree Highway revisited the

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host, Michael Messner, who
again, I, I think I've said this

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earlier this week, Mike is a
member of the Empowered

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Podcasting conference community.
He attended the for the first

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time this past September.
Got to know him better.

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I know that Phil better.
Got to know him better.

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How many times can I say better
at that conference as well?

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I think they've done a little
work together since.

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And this show, the focus is on
the songs and the musician that

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wrote the songs, Gordon
Lightfoot, who is a Canadian

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singer-songwriter who little
behind the scenes for you in our

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private DMS among the group,
Phil is really promoting or

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hyping, I should say, hyping
Gordon Lightfoot.

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He's a legend.
A legend, I tell you.

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So is his fro.
Huh?

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You hadn't even mentioned that
too.

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It's legendary.
It's the legendary FRO of

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Canada.
Suiting for 1970s and I will

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quickly read a description of
this podcast for our audience.

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It starts hello folk.
Hello folk music fans.

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Gordon Lightfoot is one of the
greatest folk rock artists of

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all time.
And now there's a podcast

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celebrating and discussing his
work song by song.

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It's called Carefree Highway
Revisited and every episode your

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and every episode your host,
that's me, Mike Messner.

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We'll examine one of Gordon's
songs with the help of a special

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guest.
So if that's your cup of tea,

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give us a listen and give us a
follow.

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We'll see you on the Carefree
Highway.

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I do appreciate kind of that
casual chat, that tone that he's

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using here.
I think that, you know, I'm

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saying it's called Carefree
Highway Revisited.

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Not sure you need that, right?
But that's OK.

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I it's short and sweet, which I
like.

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It speaks directly to who this
is for, right.

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Hello, folk music fans.
I feel like that works for this.

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And then immediately following
saying Gordon Lightfoot.

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So that goes even deeper into
the niche, which I think is a

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good thing.
Oh, and by the way, hello to

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Matt Bliss, who has joined us as
well this morning with the

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episode we're going to discuss
today is called Does Your Mother

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Know?
And in parentheses after that

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follows season 5 episode 3.
It's about it's a little over

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1/2 hour.
As I said, it's a Co hosted

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discussion because he brings on
a special guest every week and

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this episode happened earlier in
the fall of this year.

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We will play some clips here in
just a second to get people

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familiar with that episode.
What are let's just quickly go

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over our overall thoughts, first
impressions, if I think this is

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a good place to also, you know,
just in general, if you want to

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kind of give us your overall
vibe from listening to the

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episode.
And let's also talk briefly

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about the cover art and Full
disclosure to our audience.

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I've we've also been talking
behind the scenes.

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I want to try to tighten just
the cover art section of this up

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because I recognize we're
talking about something visually

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and we have in the past tended
to talk too much.

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I think about a visual element
of a podcast and I feel like we

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can tighten that up a little
bit.

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So we will do that.
Did I see somebody want to chime

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in?
Yeah, Ralph, go ahead.

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It was smooth as silk like I
thought it was just an excellent

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production.
I thought the audio quality was

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fantastic.
It's not my cup of tea.

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Like I got to be honest with
you, front end of this is the

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one that someone I will listen
to.

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But it was beautiful man.
Like I thought the whole thing

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was extremely professional.
I give it a double thumbs up.

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OK, there you go.
That's nice.

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And Dr. you wanted to.
Chime in crystal clear on the

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sound, that's for sure.
You know, I moved to Nashville

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Music City because I was a
musician and I really wanted to

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become a songwriter.
This episode really spoke to my

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heart a lot.
If you are, you don't even have

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to be a Lightfoot fan.
If you are a fan of poetry, if

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you are a songwriting fan, if
you are a, you know, a Lightfoot

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fan, this hits all the notes for
you.

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When it comes to the cover art,
the font of the actual title is

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a little too thin for me.
It's that real super narrow kind

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of font.
I think it needs to be a little

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bit more chunky to be, to catch
that ECO, that eye-catching

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optimization.
I'm with you there.

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There's some room for
improvement on that cover art.

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And listen, it's the same kind
of stuff that we've been

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suggesting during this series so
far, right?

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That we want, we want to see the
font bigger, more legible.

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And by the way, we'll show some
before and after, thanks to Matt

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Bliss.
And as a matter of fact, let me

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just go to Matt Bliss.
I see Sid, I see BC we're going

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to come to you guys in a moment.
Let me go to Matt Bliss cause

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Matt took the liberty again.
And so grateful he did to show

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an improved version of the cover
art.

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So Matt, why don't we just go to
you and share maybe where you

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feel he could improve?
The way I see cover art journeys

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usually if someone doesn't start
with Canva, is that they start

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with bringing too much detail
in, but you kind of want it,

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especially in a case like this
where it's about somebody.

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You want something that's
representative of the person

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that shows everything.
So you put them front and center

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and then you have to tell them
what the podcast is.

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So how do you fit the?
Right.

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You got to squeeze that in,
yeah.

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And there's another big problem
with having large words that

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make it difficult to squeeze
those words in appropriately and

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then fill out what is
essentially empty space at the

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end of it.
But as Jonathan mentioned in the

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chat when I was revising the
cover out yesterday, old man

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eyes can't see that.
So you kind of have to play

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around with it a little bit and
then zoom out and zoom in to try

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and get the optimized kind of
thing going.

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So there's a few iterations that
I made.

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The biggest task that occupied
the most amount of time, all 20

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minutes of what I spent on this,
was trying to find a font that

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kind of represents it.
Because I think font style and

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font type is one of the more
interesting parts of trying to

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make something representative of
what it tells.

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Now I should just add a
disclaimer here too.

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00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,480
I'm not a very good designer so.
You say that, but you do a great

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00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,840
job, at least for these
different podcasts we're

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00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,440
evaluating.
I'm a bit of a scattergun, I'll

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00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,040
just aim around the room and
I'll see what I fire around and

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00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:45,640
if I hit something good then
it's good.

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00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,240
I got to tell you that the font
that you used, especially with

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00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,040
the ones with him cross legged
sitting, I think it's he's

233
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,160
sitting around a or something,
I'm not sure.

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00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:01,080
But it's so perfect for the era
it felt like it was back in the

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00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:03,880
70s.
I had a bunch a look at a bunch

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00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,600
of album art that he had and he
has a lot of albums and there's

237
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,480
a lot of different types of
fonts that are available that

238
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,880
are very similar.
A lot of the most famous ones

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00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,200
are only, there's only a paid
option for it.

240
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:18,560
So that kind of restricted me a
bit.

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00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,040
I think if it reminds you of an
album that you saw back in the

242
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,960
70s or 80s or whatever, and you
go, oh, hang on, Gordon

243
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,720
Lightfoot.
Oh, wait, this is a podcast

244
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,080
about him.
Let's have a listen.

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00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,560
I think that it goes a long way
to doing the work in that first

246
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,920
impression that you get to to
try and give it a good look.

247
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,160
So that font style was present.
I think not mentioning Mike

248
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,440
would be a good thing.
Mike Messner, right?

249
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,680
The original, yeah, the original
art had says with Mike Messner,

250
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,120
and there's some other text as
well that I agree he could

251
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,800
eliminate from the cover art
specifically.

252
00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,000
You are a legend.
I don't think they're coming

253
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,800
here for you, though.
I think when they get to the

254
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,360
episode and they start
listening, they'll go, oh, this

255
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,360
mic guy sounds really good.
Like the production quality is

256
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,880
excellent.
I think I could think I might

257
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,560
stick with this.
Thank you, Matt.

258
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,080
Appreciate you taking the time
to revise the artwork.

259
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,520
So we will try to get everyone
linked so they can see what

260
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,000
we're discussing there.
And Sid, did you want to chime

261
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,640
in?
Good morning, everybody.

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00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,000
I just had a question.
I mean, I'm on Team Ralph.

263
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,200
This is not my type of music.
I didn't really know who Gordon

264
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,000
Lightfoot was.
Sorry, Phil, but I enjoyed the

265
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,480
episode.
It was really easy to listen to.

266
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,000
My question is, I have a
question more than a comment is

267
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,720
about the network that he's part
of FM something and then the

268
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,560
strategy behind the paywall
because you don't get the full

269
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,240
episode.
You have to go join the network

270
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:48,920
in order to hear the full
episode.

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00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,000
I mean, I understand that it's a
monetization play and I get the

272
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,600
desire for that.
But you know, that's a, it's a

273
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,960
really big play for an
independent podcaster.

274
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,080
So when I heard FMI think it's
FM network, it was I was curious

275
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,120
about that and then his strategy
around the paywall.

276
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,200
Let me see, Phil, do you know,
can you answer any of those

277
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,640
questions being somebody
connected to Mike?

278
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:15,040
Unfortunately, no, I don't know
anything about the paywall at

279
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,400
all.
OK, no problem.

280
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,280
We'll have to find out.
Go ahead, dear.

281
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,400
I'm thinking that This is why we
had such a hard time finding it.

282
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:26,400
I mean, I know you gave us a
link to it, but without that,

283
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,280
you know, I'm trying to go a
little bit beyond and I tried to

284
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,960
find it in several different
spots and I couldn't find it.

285
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,640
Like in Spotify, it only went up
to Season 4.

286
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,000
In my pocket cast, which is kind
of big, it only went up to

287
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,560
Season 3.
This particular song was in

288
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,000
Season 5.
And as soon as I brought it up

289
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,160
in hot news, you know, there's a
little place so you can find out

290
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,680
about stuff.
It said a cast on it.

291
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,720
And I know a cast is kind of
famous for private podcasts.

292
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,880
I don't want to spend too much
time on this, but I think it is

293
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,000
important just to call out for
Mike and any podcaster, really.

294
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,599
Make sure you're checking up on
your RSS feed, checking up on

295
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,319
various platforms to make sure
that all of your content is

296
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:11,680
available there.
Because, yeah, a lot of us

297
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,200
experienced that issue.
We couldn't couldn't find all of

298
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:16,920
the episodes when we searched
for it.

299
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,240
And a big thing that I'll just
jump to right now is I

300
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,280
appreciate Mike sharing and we
can get to the mid roll stuff

301
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,400
that he does.
But he promotes his Patreon and

302
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,280
I think that's a great idea.
But one thing he didn't do that

303
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,920
I think some of you also noticed
he never shared his actual

304
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,480
website.
You know, I think it's Lightfoot

305
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,400
podcast.com and I think that's
super important, right?

306
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,840
Like forget at the end, we'll
get to that too.

307
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,200
At the end, he lists all the
different places you can find

308
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,440
his podcast.
All you got to do is say go to

309
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,480
my website, give the URL and say
go there to find out where you

310
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,920
can catch more episodes of this
podcast and leave it right there

311
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:02,960
because that's where we
ultimately want people to go is

312
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,480
into our ecosystem.
That was definitely something I

313
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,120
noticed BC.
Did you want to say something

314
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,920
else real quick before I play
the beginning of this show and

315
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,400
we can talk about the episode
itself?

316
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:17,680
Oh yeah, just like chiming into
the original or the kind of

317
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,280
initial sentiments about the
episode which you're about to

318
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,400
play anyway.
I love the immediate opening

319
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,760
about playing the clip from the
past.

320
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,200
It kind of really sets the tone
for we're talking about

321
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,800
something from an era before.
It sets a kind of a deeper tone.

322
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,840
And having the guests.
What was the guest thing Jerry

323
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,480
Candice and talking about?
The moment he learned about

324
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,520
Lightwood's passing I think
really added a cool depth in

325
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,080
addition to just how smooth and
casual the overall conversation

326
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,360
was.
I think I really liked that

327
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:47,520
about the show.
Awesome.

328
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,160
Yeah, Thank you for that.
And I agree.

329
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:55,280
My overall impression, I will
say I found that Mike's voice

330
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,440
really shines in in on this
podcast.

331
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,760
I find it soothing with an
inviting tone.

332
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:04,480
Jonathan, did you want to say
something?

333
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,440
I want to be the different
person here and just say that I

334
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,800
loved his voice.
I thought it was an interesting

335
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,200
podcast, but it needed the
podcast as a whole, to me,

336
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,160
Needed a little bit more
musicality or something that

337
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:23,000
brought it up a notch because it
felt very flat to me.

338
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,360
OK, throughout the episode.
OK, so when you say musicality,

339
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,640
what's an example?
Maybe a change in the pace at

340
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,360
certain times or a segment or
something?

341
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,280
It felt like everything was very
much the same.

342
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,960
We definitely have some clips so
we can at least maybe get a

343
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,560
little taste of what Jonathan's
saying.

344
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,080
We'll at least see if others
agree or not.

345
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,200
I appreciate that feedback.
Ashley, did you want to say

346
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,800
something?
I just kind of wanted to agree

347
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,160
with Jonathan on that, where I
understand they may not have

348
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,120
licensing to play, you know,
more than what they did of Goran

349
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:58,440
Lightfoot songs.
They maybe they could have

350
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,200
incorporated some acoustic
guitar.

351
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,280
What's the right word, copyright
free music and during those

352
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,680
transitions and it would have
been just fine.

353
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,160
But maybe they did that and I
just forgot.

354
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,240
No, I don't think I noticed that
either, although that he did use

355
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,360
music for transitions, but not
specifically.

356
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:19,040
Maybe that genre.
Dr. Go ahead.

357
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,120
This is about one of the most
prolific acoustic guitarists

358
00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:30,080
that we have, and to play anyone
else's guitar during the

359
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,520
discussion would be kind of
weird for me.

360
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:39,040
But then to play Gordon's stuff
would be immensely expensive,

361
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,080
really expensive, almost
untouchable.

362
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,120
It would be great to have some
kind of something like a little

363
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,640
musical bed on some of these
stories.

364
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,840
But again, if it's not Gordon's,
then you know.

365
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,920
Yeah, that makes sense.
And by the way, that also

366
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,720
reminds me something I wanted to
share when we were talking about

367
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,960
the the cover art or cover
image, whatever you want to call

368
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,480
it.
We're talking about using images

369
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,880
of this man, right?
And and in some cases talk about

370
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,600
using his album covers.
And that's something that I just

371
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,440
want to say out loud for Mike.
That's something you want to

372
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,840
really think about before you
use because technically if you

373
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,640
don't have the rights to use
them, that could be you could

374
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,600
have some trouble with that down
the road.

375
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:25,000
So that's really.
So maybe you want to if.

376
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,480
You do like an illustration of
it would that could be?

377
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,800
Yeah, you could do that.
Maybe use AI to recreate and

378
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,920
maybe do an illustration
version.

379
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,040
OK, Yeah.
Yeah, interesting.

380
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,840
OK.
Let me have a question about

381
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:39,840
this real quick.
Mark sure.

382
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,960
In using the music.
So I know there are rules around

383
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,200
it like you can't play more than
10 seconds.

384
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,600
Is that right?
Is that 10 SEC?

385
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:48,720
Is it?
Is that 10?

386
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,280
Seconds.
It's a loose rule.

387
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,360
It's not an official rule.
OK, so if he decided to play

388
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,200
because he analyzed the the
lyrics, right?

389
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,720
So if he decided to play the
phrase that's the lyric and he

390
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,320
played it from the original
album and he did that each

391
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,240
phrase, is that a violation of
copyright?

392
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,040
Would that get him in trouble?
Because I, I heard him read it

393
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,920
and then they talked about it.
But I thought, well, it would be

394
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,840
so much better if he actually
played the clip of it.

395
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,960
So when I was ATV producer
before I started this business,

396
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,680
I that was one of the things I
was in charge of for the TV show

397
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,520
that we worked on.
I was in charge of that kind of

398
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,040
stuff, licensing and making sure
we're using content

399
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,880
appropriately.
And yeah, we used that rule of

400
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,960
of thumb as far as around 10
seconds.

401
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,080
But one of the things that the
legal team would always tell me

402
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:41,160
is as long as we are providing
commentary, we are talking about

403
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,640
the content.
And even if we are word for word

404
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:50,080
sharing some of the lyrics, as
long as we are analyzing,

405
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,720
discussing them, then it's free
use.

406
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,040
At that point.
That was what my the legal team

407
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,160
told me and I'm not a lawyer.
Matthew's agreeing with me.

408
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:01,240
I saw Nick was agreeing with me
earlier.

409
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,280
So with that statement, he could
play a clip if he wanted to, at

410
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,600
least one clip from each song
that he's analyzing.

411
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,160
Is that what I am understanding
you say?

412
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,880
Because I think that would make
it so much more.

413
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:13,760
Powerful.
That's where it still gets risky

414
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,360
because it's the Gray area.
And technically that would be

415
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:22,040
the the the leg that Mike would
stand on if he was going to get

416
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,080
sued is that, you know, he's
using it for commentary.

417
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,960
It is free use and he's not
playing large portions of the,

418
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,360
of the music.
That would be the argument.

419
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:35,480
But I can't say that it would
just instantly hold in court.

420
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,760
Matt, I'll give you a a moment
and let's keep it brief to

421
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,160
everybody here because I really
want to play some clips.

422
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,160
I'd be less worried about the
legal action, more worried about

423
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,440
automatic DMCA takedowns through
Spotify and stuff.

424
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,080
It's less about them getting
sued, more about having to deal

425
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,440
with Spotify and YouTube taking
down your content or copywriting

426
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,880
it without AI picking it up and
just doing stuff with it.

427
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,760
Yeah, you need to talk to
someone who has indeed been sued

428
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,440
for it because one of my
mentors, David Hooper, has a

429
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,400
Horror Story that he lost in
court.

430
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,680
It's pretty horrific what they
put you through.

431
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,480
And at that point when you think
about, because there's like a

432
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,960
rule that says, you know, if you
if you're doing it for parity or

433
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,520
for educational purposes, that
maybe you can use it.

434
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,040
It's just so great.
But you have to ask yourself,

435
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,600
man, is it really worth it?
How much money does the opponent

436
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,000
have compared to how much money
do I have?

437
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,120
How long could they string this
along?

438
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,440
You know, I that's the big
question that David Hooper kept

439
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,520
asking is is it really worth it?
So tread lightly, be careful.

440
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,320
And that is really not just to
Mike, that's to anybody using

441
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,280
any kind of content that you
don't technically have the

442
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,640
rights for.
It is dangerous.

443
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,400
Let's play the opening of this
podcast and a couple of you have

444
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,440
already talked about or at least
BC had mentioned how he really

445
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,320
liked the way that the show
opened.

446
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,280
I agree.
I did too this.

447
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,520
Let's just play it and we'll
talk about it on the other side.

448
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,200
The 1st guest of the evening is
truly a poet.

449
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,600
He's an artist.
He is a a friend and an

450
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,720
inspiration to anyone who I
think who has ever played the

451
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,880
guitar or tried to write poetry.
Would you please welcome Gordon

452
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:26,280
Lightfoot?
Does your mother know you have

453
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,680
to go someday?
Does your mother know that you

454
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,400
would grow so fast anyway?
That's all you think about.

455
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,800
This is Carefree Highway
Revisited, the show that

456
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,960
celebrates the work of Gordon
Lightfoot, song by song.

457
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,480
I'm your host, Mike Messner, And
with me today is a fellow

458
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,040
Lightfoot fan from Montreal, QC,
making his second appearance on

459
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,640
the show, Jerry Candiceon.
Jerry, welcome back.

460
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,680
Thank you, it's nice to be back.
I appreciated this intro.

461
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,280
I love the retro show open, it's
perfect for his audience.

462
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,520
I liked the short and sweet
intro.

463
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,120
The one thing I'll say is, well,
there are two things that come

464
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:11,120
to mind immediately. 1 is that
that music was a little too long

465
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:14,280
in between when the retro clip
ended and he came in.

466
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,160
I, and I think Nick, you might
have in your notes shared that

467
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,560
as well, that he could have come
in as that guitar was playing.

468
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,240
Give it a beat, give it a second
or two between the retro clip.

469
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,440
Although you may not even have
to but play with that, but you

470
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,760
can come in a lot sooner after
that retro clip plays.

471
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,400
And the second thing is, is that
I would have just liked a little

472
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,520
bit more about the guest.
I am not a fan of going on and

473
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,560
on about a guest to set up your
show, but I would like a little

474
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,640
more context.
I appreciate that he's a repeat

475
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,080
guest.
That means that tells me that

476
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,720
you as a host value this guest,
but just a little something

477
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,000
more.
And it it's not that I'm

478
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,840
necessarily even looking for
this any expertise.

479
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,200
I just want to know why did you
choose this guy?

480
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,200
So giving me a little something
more would have been helpful.

481
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,320
But we'll talk a little bit more
in a moment about where this

482
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,320
goes.
This intro goes from here

483
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,280
because I do like a lot what
Mike did, but does anyone have

484
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,840
anything they want to chime in
on just as far as what I just

485
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,840
played?
OK, then I will keep it going

486
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,080
with the next part of the intro.
Now, the last time we had you on

487
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,160
the show was actually before
Gord passed away.

488
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,320
You were with us in January of
2023.

489
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:39,320
Are there any big headlines in
your life apart from the loss of

490
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,800
our musical North Star?
Well, let's go back to the death

491
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,840
of Gordon.
I was.

492
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:50,840
Out at a.
Dinner with clients and got into

493
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,000
my car and looked at my phone
and I had texts from three of my

494
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,520
friends wishing me condolences
on the passing of Gordon.

495
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,800
I put on the radio and they were
playing all his songs and I

496
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,280
drove home for about 20 minutes
with tears coming down my eyes.

497
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,560
And he goes on and tells a
little bit more of that, and I

498
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,400
found the emotional story
compelling.

499
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,400
The one problem I had is that it
delays.

500
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,800
Why did we pick this song today?
We talk about this right in our

501
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,240
intros.
How valuable it is to your

502
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:30,040
audience to immediately tell
them what or why they're here or

503
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,480
what they're going to get.
As Gordon Lightfoot fans, they

504
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,160
see the title.
They probably have a strong idea

505
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,480
of that.
We're going to be talking about

506
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,520
that song.
However, I still think a little

507
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,760
bit more of a setup for the
episode and then ask this that

508
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,680
first question.
I thought that was a great way

509
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,120
to kick off who this guest is
and help me get a little more

510
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,160
attached to this guest.
I got something emotional right

511
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,680
out of the gate, and if I'm a
fan of this music and a fan of

512
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,680
Gordon's music, I'm in at this
point.

513
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,640
I think the same can be said
about the description.

514
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,400
I know I'm kind of jumping back
to to that a little bit, but

515
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,800
when I listen to content or if I
watch content on YouTube or

516
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,480
whatever, it is about like music
that I enjoy.

517
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,360
Like as an example, I'm a huge
fan of Eminem.

518
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,400
If I'm going to spend time
listening or watching this video

519
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,560
about a specific song or
something I'm, I'm looking for

520
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,600
like what is something new that
I'm going to learn or what is

521
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,120
something new that I'm going to
uncover tuning into this.

522
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,800
And that was something that I
didn't get from the description

523
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,800
of the episode.
Like there was nothing kind of

524
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,480
hooking me in to like, oh, Dang,
I need to check that out.

525
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,440
I'm really interested to hear
what they got to say about this.

526
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,400
I've never heard that before.
Like something like that.

527
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,640
It can be very powerful and go a
long way into really sucking

528
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,000
someone into this and be like, I
got to figure out what this is.

529
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,640
I'm a huge fan.
I got to know I am right there

530
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,400
with you, Nick.
And that is what I was getting

531
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,360
at with the intro as well.
Yeah, let's let's tell these

532
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,000
fans a little bit more about
what this song, why we've chosen

533
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,880
this song.
Especially think about it.

534
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,320
If you've got new listeners that
are coming to your show for the

535
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,800
first time and they're hearing
this, we've got to sell them a

536
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,720
little bit, right?
We got to tell them, OK, great.

537
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,920
You guys are talking about does
your mother know?

538
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,280
But what about it?
I think that will go a long way.

539
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,200
And I agree with you, Nick, in
the description as well.

540
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:28,200
I think that exactly what you're
saying, but also you can put in

541
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,440
there some of the questions that
you asked, like, you know, hear

542
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,720
his answers.
When I asked about where were

543
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,120
you at when you heard about
Gordon's death, where were you?

544
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,800
Tell me about the first time you
ever saw Gordon on stage.

545
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,960
Something like that could go
well in the episode description.

546
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,120
Thank you, Dr. I felt like it
was a little dragged out before

547
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,840
we really got to the song
itself.

548
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,120
Not terribly.
I didn't.

549
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,920
I don't feel like he was going
on and on and on.

550
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,440
It wasn't droning, but I do feel
like we could have gotten to the

551
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,120
main topic a little bit quicker.
And I think some of you had

552
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:10,520
agreed with that as well in our
evaluations that we provided for

553
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,560
to one another.
If you think about something

554
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,320
like that, here's my note is
that the team found that the

555
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,760
intro was heartfelt and
engaging, though some mentioned

556
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,280
that grounding the purpose
earlier would help newcomers.

557
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,960
As I just said, and everyone
agreed, Jerry's story

558
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,400
strengthens the emotional tone
of the episode.

559
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:35,080
So let's then talk a little bit
about the quality, the content

560
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,960
quality and the storytelling
itself, right?

561
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,200
I found that overall the
structure felt rich and

562
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,480
comprehensive.
And I thought Jerry had great

563
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:49,760
personal stories, Mike teaching
anecdotes, and it really adds

564
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,960
depth and authority.
And by the way, he is a

565
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,880
professor and he does teach
music.

566
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,880
I forget.
Maybe Phil may know, I'm not

567
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,680
sure but I forget it.
Specifically what he teaches in

568
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,600
music.
He teaches history.

569
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:03,920
Perfect.
Well suited.

570
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,880
We're doing a show on this
particular musician's history.

571
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,720
OK, I will play a clip.
In this one, Mike is explaining

572
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,440
how Gordon Lightfoot's
songwriting extends beyond the

573
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,360
music world and into real
cultural history.

574
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,920
And to give you more context,
they've been discussing, as

575
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,480
we're leaning into this clip,
Black Day in July, Lightfoot's

576
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,720
song about the Detroit riots.
And here Mike shares how he

577
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,560
actually uses this uses the song
in his ethics study classes.

578
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,640
And that is clip three.
Let me play it.

579
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,120
I'll make a quick side trip
here.

580
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,160
You talked at some length about
Black Day in July, and I've done

581
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,440
that on my show.
The thing about it is that it's

582
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,920
turned out to be such a perfect
encapsulation of the Detroit

583
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,120
race riots that I use it in my
ethnic studies classes even

584
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,400
today as background music for
the pictures that came out of

585
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,640
those riots.
And I don't know that there's a

586
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:14,000
better depiction of a specific
20th century event in the States

587
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,480
as that one.
So I liked this because I think

588
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:23,680
that it demonstrates his
authority, his expertise in a

589
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,880
very natural, organic way.
So kudos to Mike for doing that

590
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,640
and taking that time because I
know there are some podcasters

591
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,360
that shy away from inserting
something personal of theirs and

592
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,720
they just want to keep the
spotlight on the guest.

593
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,480
And as much as the guest
probably appreciates that, I

594
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,400
think it loses something for the
audience.

595
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,280
So I love that Mike took that
moment to share.

596
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,200
How about I keep it going then?
And I will play this next clip,

597
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,120
which I think it's honestly a
master class.

598
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,720
And it says it's might appear
simple, but it's a master class

599
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,800
in opening emotional space.
He doesn't ask a closed

600
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,640
question.
Or in any case, I didn't find

601
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,720
him asking closed questions.
What do I mean by that?

602
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,280
Do you like this song?
He's asking for a story, often,

603
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,960
something that naturally leads
to vivid detail, nostalgia,

604
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,040
genuine connection.
And I also like how he goes

605
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,880
right into that question after
the guest finishes his first and

606
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,800
last question here, I'll play it
for you and I think it'll make

607
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,239
some sense.
He captures it so beautifully,

608
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,679
just like he always does when he
nails it.

609
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,719
And he nails it on this song.
You can just see the portrait.

610
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,719
You can picture this girl.
When when he says does your

611
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,120
mother know you walked all day
in the rain?

612
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,520
You can picture her depressingly
walking in the rain.

613
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,520
Just a great song.
Do you have any personal stories

614
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,040
about the song, or maybe an
event where it really hit home

615
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,120
for you?
Something like that.

616
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:04,440
Yes, in 1968 I was an aspiring
high school student.

617
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,840
So this is what I'm talking
about.

618
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,320
He goes right into that next
question after the guest

619
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,480
provides their answer to the
previous one.

620
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,200
In other words, a lot of us,
including me, feel like we have

621
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,920
to always acknowledge what our
guests said.

622
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:26,120
For example, after the guest
finishes an answer, the a host

623
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,840
might say things like and again,
yours truly included.

624
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,400
I love that, great point.
I agree, but I feel that's

625
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,640
really just filler between an
answer and the next question.

626
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:42,120
And who knows, maybe he in in
the actual recording, maybe he

627
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,840
did say something like that.
Oh, I love that, great point.

628
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:48,400
But he had what he did then if
that's the case, he edited it

629
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,320
out.
So one way or another he

630
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,040
recognized.
Sometimes it's just best go

631
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,840
right into that next question.
It's OK, we don't have to

632
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,520
acknowledge people every time,
as I tell myself that too.

633
00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:01,120
Dr. Was it you that had
something?

634
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,760
I think he edited out or maybe
his guest actually did it this

635
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,680
way.
I'm going to think that he

636
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,240
probably edited out the guest
saying, hey, that's a good

637
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:13,520
question.
Great question.

638
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,400
I mean, that's usually what
everybody said and me include.

639
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,000
I've been on shows and I've said
that and I cringe every time it

640
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,560
comes out of my mouth.
Would you agree that not every

641
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,080
time, but a lot of times when
people say, oh, that's a great

642
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,720
question, it's because we're not
really sure yet what the answer

643
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,400
is like we're still searching.
For it, they're they're thinking

644
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,040
about how do I get into this
answer or but yeah, I cut it as

645
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,640
an editor, I cut all that out.
OK, that's cool.

646
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,840
I think sometimes it works when
a guest says, oh, that's a

647
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,080
really great question.
And I think when it works, it

648
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,880
depends on their answer.
If they come right out of the

649
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,360
gate with a really confident
answer after saying that to me,

650
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,720
I like leaving it there because
it's almost like they're excited

651
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:58,440
to answer the question.
The only time that I don't get

652
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,120
it out is if they say that's a
great question because.

653
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,320
Yeah, that's kind of what I'm
getting at too.

654
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,720
There's when, when you can,
there is a difference.

655
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:11,720
You can tell when a guest is
using that as a tactic to stall

656
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:15,840
versus versus just pure
excitement or confidence in

657
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,600
their upcoming answer.
For me, I can just tell the

658
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,040
difference and if you can't,
that's OK.

659
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:26,400
And maybe take, maybe try D Rs
advice and eliminate those

660
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,600
moments.
Let's talk a little bit about

661
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,520
the mid roll because you had
some notes on that.

662
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,160
But first, Ralph, go ahead.
I was just going to say his

663
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,680
interview style was very, you
know, calm and you felt like you

664
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,840
could sit alongside of them,
like you were in front of a

665
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,120
fireplace and everybody's just
kind of relaxing.

666
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,960
And I thought it was very
engaging.

667
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,840
Agreed, yes, and Ashley has
something to go ahead.

668
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,320
Ashley.
I loved how analytical it was.

669
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,320
And I also love how homey it
was.

670
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,120
You know, being a folk musician
myself, I felt like I was

671
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,240
sitting around, you know, some
older folks who knew a lot about

672
00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:01,720
Gordon Lightfoot and had many
experiences and were very, you

673
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:05,840
know, down to earth about how
they ingested his material and

674
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,840
what instruments were on the
songs.

675
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,560
And that the fact that it was a
deep cut, I think was great.

676
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,080
Awesome.
Thank you.

677
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,520
And Ashley, as a musician, did
you know who Gordon Lightfoot

678
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,160
was?
Oh absolutely.

679
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,080
I have a deep connection to
Gordon Lightfoot.

680
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,760
I listened to him on cassette as
a child.

681
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,200
I remember going to bed at night
and watching The Shadows on the

682
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,760
Wall and listening to Did She
Mention My Name and many of his

683
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,040
songs.
Awesome.

684
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:32,920
Yeah.
So look at that.

685
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,880
We have a few people that say,
you know, this isn't we're not

686
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,280
the the target audience for
this, but we it's cool that we

687
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,880
do have a couple people here
that this does resonate with.

688
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,800
I think that's good to have this
variety.

689
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,520
All right, let me then Dr. you
wanted to talk a little bit

690
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,280
about the mid role.
So did that.

691
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,160
That's where he plays a few
promotional spots for his

692
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:56,600
audience.
What did you want to talk about

693
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,760
it?
And I have both the beginning of

694
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,920
the mid roles and the end of the
mid roles to discuss.

695
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,280
What's your overall thought?
He does too, and the first one,

696
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,040
the transition, is done
beautifully.

697
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,360
I loved the transition going
into that first one.

698
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:21,040
You know, the words calming,
fireplace, all of those words,

699
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,560
exactly what I felt.
And when I heard that first mid

700
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,680
role transition, I kind of got a
Casey Kasem vibe a little bit.

701
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,560
Not so much the voice, but there
is.

702
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:39,520
He modulates his voice just like
Casey does and his pacing is

703
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,840
very reminiscent of Casey and it
just made me so comfortable now

704
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,160
so.
Comfortable now I know we have

705
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:54,280
our audience skews between like
30 and mid 50s and so I think

706
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,320
it's OK, but I just in case
because we do have some younger

707
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,480
people as well.
If you didn't know, Casey Kasem

708
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,640
is a very well known.
DJ, radio personality and then

709
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,880
some.
And yeah, and he's got one of

710
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,560
the most classic voices.
And here's another way you may

711
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,800
know him.
Although even scooby-doo these

712
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,080
days probably not, doesn't
resonate as much with younger

713
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,880
people.
But he was Shaggy.

714
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,080
He was the original voice of
Shaggy.

715
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,560
OK, let's play the lead in to
the mid role.

716
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,120
God rest his soul.
And I've heard a lot of people

717
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,240
have the same kind of reaction.
They walk away from saying this

718
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:33,960
could be my next door neighbor,
this could be a guy I meet at

719
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,720
church.
This could be the guy who

720
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:42,600
delivers my milk in the morning.
You're listening to Carefree

721
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,880
Highway revisited.
We'll be right back after a word

722
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:53,320
from a podcast partner or two.
250 and Counting is the podcast

723
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,640
that walks you through American
history one day at a time.

724
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,800
I'm Mike Messner.
I'm Claude Call.

725
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,160
Join us as we spend just a
couple of minutes.

726
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,880
So there you go.
That's I think that I agree Dr.

727
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,920
great job.
He did a great job and I liked

728
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,360
the music changed with the with
the new the first spot like I

729
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,240
thought he did a really nice job
with that.

730
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,600
Yeah, very much.
Looks like Ashley is agreeing as

731
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,480
well and I'm going to play the
back end of it.

732
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,160
So let me do that and we'll talk
about it.

733
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,320
Greatest decade.
Don't miss the greatest 80s

734
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,040
podcast in the world, back to
the 80s radio.

735
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,640
Well, let's start looking into
the lyrics here.

736
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,320
Jerry, does your mother know you
had to go someday?

737
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,400
I like that he didn't say
anything like welcome back.

738
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:37,520
He just.
Got into.

739
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,600
It with his first question.
It was very legit.

740
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,680
I mean that pause, it was just
enough.

741
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,680
Oh, OK, you like the pause.
And and this is, I think

742
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,040
honestly taste.
This isn't a critique, right?

743
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,800
Because for me, I would almost
rather have that music be fading

744
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,160
out.
And then he says that first

745
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,880
question before the music ends.
But I would have worked well

746
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:00,400
too.
Yeah.

747
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,440
But I think, and you're right
too, right like that, that what

748
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,840
he did there just creates a
little bit of separation between

749
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,960
the, the mid rolls and the end
and and the beginning of his

750
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,800
first question.
I like that too.

751
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,080
What other clips do I have for
everyone today?

752
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,120
No, I is that, Oh, I guess let's
we could talk a little bit about

753
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,000
the the outro as well.
I know some people had some

754
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,680
thoughts on that.
So let me go ahead and play that

755
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,040
one for you.
Always a pleasure, Mike.

756
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,200
And thanks for listening,
everybody.

757
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,360
If you like this well enough to
listen to the whole thing, tell

758
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,640
somebody about it.
Carefree Highway Revisited is on

759
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,560
Apple, Spotify, a cast, or
wherever you get your listening

760
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,840
matter.
I'd like to make a special

761
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,320
request for you to visit my
Patreon page.

762
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,560
I love this show so much and I
want to keep it going and you're

763
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,040
in a position to help.
Please head over to

764
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:56,400
www.patreon.com/carefree Highway
Revisited.

765
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,120
A dollar or two a month is all I
ask.

766
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:05,240
You can reach me, Mike Messner,
at teachermike72@gmail.com.

767
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,840
Well, our next episode will
feature Jerry and.

768
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,200
Then he goes into a tease for
the next episode, which I

769
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,240
appreciate greatly.
I would almost start with the

770
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:18,560
tease and then go into what you
want them to do only because

771
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,360
again, I've shared this before.
If you're giving your whole

772
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,080
spiel, your call to action, and
if you're giving a lot of

773
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,080
different things for them to do
you, they may tune out before

774
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,240
they get to that tease for the
next episode.

775
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,720
So either shorten that up with
your different calls to action

776
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,680
and then get into the tease or
go with the tease.

777
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,960
First.
Let's go to Ashley and then

778
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,320
Ralph.
Go ahead, Ashley.

779
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,480
You know that whole Cth spiel
was great, but it would have

780
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,040
been even better and more
effective if they'd been closer

781
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,320
to the top of the show maybe 1/4
of the way through.

782
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,920
Because even the greatest
podcast people just don't listen

783
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,600
all the way to the end.
Yeah, I agree with you on that

784
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,360
one, Ralph.
Go for it.

785
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,200
Here's where I wanted to scream.
I wanted to scream branding,

786
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,040
branding.
This is your opportunity to

787
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,680
brand this.
Don't send me to Patreon dot XYZ

788
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:12,800
upside down and don't send me to
a Gmail.

789
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,360
Please brand me.
This is the time when you can

790
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,000
just bring it home and bring the
brand right center, right in the

791
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,280
middle of this.
OK.

792
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,440
So Ralph, thank you for that.
And what would you suggest

793
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:24,720
instead?
Like?

794
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:28,080
Specific, I think he could have
his own domain and then he can

795
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,320
have short links, for example,
whatever his domain is slash

796
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,200
support or domain contact or
listen.

797
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,640
I'm a pod page guy, have 4 site,
4 sites on pod page.

798
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,840
It makes it so simple.
That's not an affiliate or

799
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,840
anything like that.
Don't get me wrong, but just

800
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,880
build that branding because man,
you got the you got the

801
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,520
opportunity time you're in your
niche.

802
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,120
People are loving this now.
Just bring them home and bring

803
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,840
them into your your area.
Yeah, thank you, Ralph.

804
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,800
And by the way, we will put a
link to pod page if you want to

805
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,960
have your podcast website made
easily for you and that will be

806
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,680
an affiliate link.
And by the way, Dave, in the

807
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:12,120
chat, he says I would never
remember that e-mail, send me to

808
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,440
your website.
I agree wholeheartedly.

809
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,520
So does Ashley.
Yeah, let's just instead say if

810
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,480
you want to get in touch with
me, go to lightfootpodcast.com.

811
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,960
I've been doing that this week.
I haven't been even

812
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,880
intentionally necessarily doing
it, but I've been talking about

813
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,960
how you can get in touch with us
through our website.

814
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:37,080
And I gave an example of that by
reading somebody's, I'll call it

815
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,840
fan mail on the air yesterday.
And that encourages people to do

816
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:42,880
that.
I would agree with that.

817
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,640
Don't give the e-mail address.
And if you're going to, I guess

818
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,760
it would be preferred to be
branded, I think to Dave's

819
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,760
point, just send them right to
your website.

820
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:54,800
I think that'll that'll do you
well.

821
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,360
And I feel like there was just
too many calls to action in

822
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,720
general there at the end.
Let's pick one and have them do

823
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:03,520
that.
Dr. Go ahead.

824
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,000
I think there's a little sticky
wicket here because he mentioned

825
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,760
all these places that you can
find this show.

826
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:16,520
But as we said at the top of the
show, it only goes to Season 3

827
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,840
on Pocket Cast.
It only goes to Season 4 on

828
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,720
Spotify.
So and now this particular song

829
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:27,360
is in season 5.
So you know, have the have is

830
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,560
the show that this the free
version?

831
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:35,560
Is it done or are you directing
them to go find some stuff that

832
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,600
is Evergreen or I'm not quite
sure what the case is, but I

833
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,800
knew that after a while, I
realized, you know what this is?

834
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,520
He's this is his Patreon stuff.
That's why we couldn't find it.

835
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,640
I'm with you.
I think that, again, that's

836
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,360
another good reason to send
people to lightfootpodcast.com,

837
00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:56,920
because all of his episodes, as
far as I can tell, are there.

838
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,000
Very recent episodes are all
listed here.

839
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,080
So that would save people a lot
of confusion.

840
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:06,000
And you can add a Patreon link
to this page, right?

841
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,920
So instead of again, giving that
long URL like Ralph was saying,

842
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,520
just put a link to your Patreon
at the very top where there are

843
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,200
other links are that you have
here.

844
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,840
And then you can just say you
can still plug, hey, you know,

845
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,760
please support me.
You can do that on my Patreon

846
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:22,600
page.
And you can find

847
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:27,360
that@lightfootpodcast.com.
Anyone else want to chime in?

848
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,000
Any final thoughts?
So I know we're not on show

849
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,440
notes, but this has to do with
being found.

850
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,240
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I
was looking at the show notes

851
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:39,880
and it's just a description of
what the show is about.

852
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,320
I don't recall seeing any links,
but that would be a great place

853
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,480
to link a website, Patreon, and
anything else that you might

854
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,760
want people to see to support
your show.

855
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,240
I agree.
I I wrote down here for his show

856
00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:59,280
notes a more well, this first I
wrote a more descriptive title

857
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,160
and then in the description
itself, a hook and I should talk

858
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,280
about the title too.
So I will a hook in the

859
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,440
description that tells listeners
why they should care.

860
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,480
And I think that was something
that Nick had also brought up

861
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,720
earlier.
Make and then take advantage and

862
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:18,440
make sure you're using relevant
keywords, the artist's name,

863
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,320
song analysis, music history,
etcetera, to improve the search

864
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:28,160
visibility, A clearer, a more
clear sense of what insights or

865
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,120
discussions the episode
contains.

866
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:34,720
And I think you can do a lot of
that if you consider adding

867
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:38,760
chapter markers and titles.
So the one thing I wanted to say

868
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:43,040
about the episode title itself,
in general, it's not bad, right?

869
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,840
Like a Gordon Lightfoot fan is
going to knows this has to do

870
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,440
with the song.
Does your mother know?

871
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,320
Because that's in the title.
But there could be some like me,

872
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,200
some 70s music fans,
singer-songwriter music that

873
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,800
doesn't know this catalog from
of Gordon.

874
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:06,200
And we don't know that that song
is associated with him.

875
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:08,480
And when I first saw it, I
didn't know that that was a

876
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,560
title of of one of his songs.
So I didn't know what that

877
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,040
meant.
I thought we were honestly going

878
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,760
to be talking about something to
do with Gordon Lightfoot and his

879
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,600
mom.
That's really honestly what I

880
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,520
thought.
So I would just add a little

881
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,160
more.
You can still start with if you

882
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,440
want, does your mother know?
But then maybe put a little dash

883
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:30,120
or something and then say a deep
dive into this 1968 classic.

884
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,360
Or you can say revisiting, does
your mother know what this song

885
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,080
still gets right?
You know, just giving it a

886
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:42,080
little bit of a touch more that
can make it more clear.

887
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,480
I would maybe go with the
description, an example of

888
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,360
something.
This one I would consider more

889
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,520
of a clean, descriptive, SEO
friendly version.

890
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:52,480
I would say something like, I
wrote this down.

891
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:56,560
In this episode, I sit down with
my guest to take a closer look

892
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,360
at the 1968 track Does Your
Mother Know?

893
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,480
We breakdown the song's themes,
the album it came from, and why

894
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,880
it still resonates today.
If you enjoy song analysis,

895
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,960
storytelling, and the history
behind classic tracks, this

896
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,080
one's for you.
That, to me, helps me as a

897
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,320
listener know exactly what I'm
getting into.

898
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,000
I hope that this has helped.
MM We love you.

899
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,000
Thank you for being a part of
this community.

900
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,920
I hope that this was really
helpful to you.

901
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,920
And of course, I hope.
I hope that this was helpful to

902
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,600
our audience as well.
We do it every Thursday.

903
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,880
If you want your podcast
evaluated, by all means bring

904
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,320
it, use that link in the show
notes and apply today and keep

905
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,120
coming back.
Otherwise, if you don't want

906
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,400
your podcast evaluated, I
believe you will learn at least

907
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:46,920
one thing by participating, by
attending these Thursday podcast

908
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,240
evaluations.
So thank you all and thank you

909
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:52,040
to the team for taking the time
again to listen to another

910
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,240
podcast.
We'll let you know very soon

911
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:59,600
what the next one is.
And until tomorrow, 7:00 AM

912
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,840
Eastern, make it a great day
everybody.

913
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:03,400
Take care.