505. Your Episode Title Decides If Anyone Listens

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Marc Ronick: Good morning

podcasters.

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Today is Tuesday, April 28 2026
and today we're
putting

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podcast titles to the test.
Do they really decide your


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episode's success?
Or are we oversimplifying what

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actually
drives listeners to
click Commit and keep coming

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back for more.

So if you're listening live on

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clubhouse, hit the share button
top right hand side of the

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screen and share it however

clubhouse lets you.

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And if you're catching us via
podcast,
YouTube, etc, please

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00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,380
share this episode with a fellow
podcaster.


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And now give us about 30
seconds, and we'll get things


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rolling.
Thanks for being here.

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The podcasting morning chat is

powered by Ironick Media,

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helping podcasters launch polish

and grow great shows, and by

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Content Creator's Accountant

helping creators build real

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Business behind their content.
Good morning again.

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Podcasting
morning chat.
Thank you so much for being

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here.
I am your host,
Mark ronick

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and currently on stage with me,
my co hosts.

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We
have Nick Nalbach, DR Fay,
Ralph Estep, Sid Meadows and

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Alex
Ballish, also Tide aka
Knikki, is on stage with us from

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our
audience.
Good morning to you all.

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If you want to learn more

about my co host, just go to

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podcastingmorning

chat.com/people, and you'll see

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why they are always here on

stage with me in the mornings.

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So before we dive into all of

the things today, talking about

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podcast titles and really, I

want to put this idea, the

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following idea on the table this

morning, which that statement,

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your title, decides whether your

episode gets heard or seen,

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not your content, not your
effort,
your title.

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So we'll find out how true that
is or isn't, and
we'll talk a

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little bit about titles as well.
First, I wanted
to just give

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you that little reminder, our
show changes times
as of

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Monday, May the Fourth, yes,
John in the audience.

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May
the Fourth be with you.
Star Trek, fan and yeah.

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May 4, 8am
Eastern is our new
time and new show name.

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We're changing from
podcasting
morning chat to podcasting

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morning show.
Little
side note, if you go to

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podcasting morning show.com that

works now.

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It'll just redirect you to our
our usual website.


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But as of Monday,
podcastingmorningshow.com will


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be the thing, and we will be
doing the thing at 8am Eastern.

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We think that this is going to

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create more guest opportunities
for us.

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And I posted yesterday an
announcement about it, and


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already started been started
receiving feedback saying, Oh,


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that's a time that I can
actually make.

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In the morning,
you might
start seeing more of me in the

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mornings.
That was a
big reason why we

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made this change, and it's
already
starting to pay off,

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and we think that more people
will find
us at that hour in

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the morning, whether it's on our
video
streams or here on

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clubhouse, we think that more
people will be
awake in the

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morning to find us.
So we're looking forward to the

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change.
And Dr, did you want to say

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something?
D.R.

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Fay: Yeah, I have a
question
about the name change.

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So this is a question that I get

asked often.

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When you change the name of a
show in the middle of
a run,

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what about all the back catalog?
Does that radically get


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changed as well?
Or no?

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What do you mean by the back
catalog,
the episodes like on

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different episodes that we've
done up all
the episodes that

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we have done so far.
Are they still podcast
morning

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chat, or will they get changed
to podcast?

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Marc Ronick: Well, I mean, no,

I'm not going back in and

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changing everything.
I'm not
gonna, you know,

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whatever was labeled as
podcasting morning
chat will

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stay that way, but it all still
falls under the
podcasting

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Morning Show umbrella.
So when you go to our
usual

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RSS feed, or if you find us on
Apple or Spotify, or if
you

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listen on our website, which, by
the way, I see, our
numbers

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are pretty significant as far as
people listening
through our

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website, but you'll get all the
past episodes the
present

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episodes all under the
podcasting Morning Show


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umbrella.
Okay?

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Thank you.
Thank you for asking.

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And by the way,
if you
listened yesterday, we were

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playing Geminis new or new
and
improved, I should say tool,

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music generating tool.
And I'm
looking for Ralph has

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submitted.
One for us, and I'm trying to


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find it, Ralph.
And now, of course, I can't.

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Here we go.
I
got it.

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So, Ralph, submitted one now,
Ralph, this you did with
suno,

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right?
You use suno regularly.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: That is

correct.

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I am a super suno user.
Marc Ronick: Okay, so this, we


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were very impressed with Geminis
yesterday.

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Let's hear if we're
equally as
impressive with this suno theme

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song for podcasting
morning
show.

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Jingle: Good morning podcasters,

wake up.

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Let's go coffee in the club.
Hot takes on the flow from
the

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live feed straight to clubhouse.
Fam.

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We building this
together.
Say your peace is the podcasting

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on the show.
We are
where the whole

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community is driving the talk.
You matter
your voice, every

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comment, every quote from the
live feed the
clubhouse.

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Let it roll.
The show is called podcasting

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morning
show.
Marc Ronick: I'm impressed.

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I
like it now.
Ralph, what did you What was the

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prompt you gave
suno to do
that?

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Ralph Estep Jr.: I said, I want
you to give me something that's

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sort of a rappy feel like, wake
up, get ready to go.

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Let's jump into this new name of
the show.


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So that was the prompt I gave.
It.

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Marc Ronick: Okay, cool.
Well, I
think it did a pretty

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nice job.
Indeed.

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I enjoyed it.
I was much
happier, much more

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into longer intros and music and
all that,
but no longer.

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And so I just, I think maybe
we'll just use
these.

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We'll play different themes
every so often that we
have aI

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generate, and maybe one day
we'll have a listener


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submitted theme song that would
be fun.

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Maybe we even do a
contest or
something around that at some

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point, so we will see.

So yeah, thank you for indulging

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us there.
Let's dig into today's
show.

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Like I said, I want to first
start by throwing out a


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statement, and I want to get
your reactions.

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And if you're
listening live,
you are more than welcome to

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play along and
give your
thoughts and opinions.

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And look, I know we can easily,
and I know it'll come up the

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idea of quote, unquote, it

depends.

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And that is something that we
actually say with a
badge of

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honor most times.
And let's try to do what we can

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to
avoid that statement if
possible.

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But like I said,
you're not,
we're not kicking you out if you

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say it.
It's not
the end of the world.

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But I just, I know that's going
to be
something commonly said.

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So when you hear that, your
title
decides whether your

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episode gets heard or seen.
I'll say it
again.

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Your title decides whether your
episode gets heard
or seen.

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When you hear that, what feels
right about it and
what feels

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off.
Because, like I said, this whole

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it depends
thing, if that's
really where you're going to go,

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fine.
But I
also think there are

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times where it feels right,
there are times
where it feels

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wrong.
Alex wants to be the first to

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chime in.

Alex, what do you what do you

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got?
Alex Balish: Well, it depends.


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It doesn't really depend.
Actually, it's very important.


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And if people want to, you know,
say I'm wrong.

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I mean, for what
I do, when I
do show reviews or movie

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reviews, it doesn't
depend.
It's what people are looking

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for.
It's what's
searchable.

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You know, if it's a show and
it's the wrong episode
of the

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show, not of the podcast, people
are going to be on the
wrong

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thing.
Or if it's a reaction to certain

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things, so
it doesn't depend.
Actually, I think it's

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important, but I also
don't
think that you need to spend

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hours upon hours trying to

figure out the right title

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either.
I think that clear and
concise

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is where to where it's at.
But I did have a question
for

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what Dr asked before?
Marc Ronick: Okay?

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Which
question?
What did she ask before?

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Alex Balish: No, I'm just saying

about the with the change of

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name, are we going to start with

Episode One, or are we

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starting with episode 500 and
whatever Marc Ronick: we're

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starting
with?
Well, today is 505.

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So it'll be, well, it'll
continue
the Alex Balish: I

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know that's a big
thing when
you when you change a name,

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that's the only reason why Marc
Ronick: that is a question


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that people often ask me, yes,
you're right, but yeah, we're


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gonna keep it all going because
it's all the same show.

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We're
not changing the format.
Alex Balish: But back to the


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original question.
I don't think it depends.

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I think people need
to
understand it's about

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searchability, and they want to
know what they're listening to.

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So I think it's not really, it's

definitely not.

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It depends.
Marc Ronick: Okay, no, that's


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fair.
I appreciate that.

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And Ralph, I see you want to
chime
in as well.

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What do you got for us?
What do you think your title


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decides whether your episode
gets heard or seen?

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Ralph Estep Jr.: I think the

title is super important on my

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daily show.
I guess it's been
about 18

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months ago I made a change where
every title is a
question,

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every day it's a question.
And what I found is it
really

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did increase the listenership,
because I
basically put it out

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there.
Hey, what if you know, here's

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what's
going on.
Ask a question.

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I find it to be super important,
and I
don't necessarily think

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it brings in new listeners, but
I
think it reinforces your

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existing listeners.
I've heard
many people say the

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number of people that listen is
not your
full audience, so

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that's where I think a title is
super
important.

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I shared my title today for my
content creator
show, because

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I think you have to really pay
attention to the
title, and

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honestly, and this may be
unpopular, I think you've
got

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to spend as much time on your
title as you do on the


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content, because that title is
going it's sort of like when you

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00:10:28,704 --> 00:10:30,712

go fishing, right?
You get your hook, you put that

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00:10:30,712 --> 00:10:32,927
bait on the
hook.
Well, if there's no bait on the

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hook, the fish isn't
going to
bite it.

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So I think you've really got to
pay
attention to that.

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And honestly, oftentimes now I
start with the
title before I

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even build the episode, I start
with, what is
it I'm trying to

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convey?
Because I think there's an


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intentionality to that, Marc
Ronick: that's I like that


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00:10:48,032 --> 00:10:49,785
strategy.
There's some stuff going on in

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00:10:49,785 --> 00:10:53,595
the chat here as
well.
And I was curious if John would

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elaborate.
John said he's
not a fan.

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I'm trying to find where he
actually said that he's
not a

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fan of the five the titles that
start.

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Five ways to do
this, which
hilarious.

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That's what yesterday's how our
title
started yesterday, or he

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00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:09,885
doesn't.
Also, another example
he

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00:11:09,885 --> 00:11:13,045
doesn't like is, here's three
reasons why dot, dot, dot.

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I'm
curious.
John's joined us on the stage.

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00:11:15,562 --> 00:11:17,130
What don't you like about

those?

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John: Everybody uses them, and

it's funny.

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I'm not going to use the term,
it depends.

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00:11:23,112 --> 00:11:26,706
But if
your show's an
interview show, I think you lead

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00:11:26,706 --> 00:11:28,620
with your guests.

Because if I'm just going to use

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00:11:28,620 --> 00:11:32,520
Joe Rogan, I look at your Joe

Rogan show, and if it's a guest

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00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,000
I want to listen to, I listen to

the show.

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00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,672
If it's not, I just pass by it.
There's some
podcasts I listen

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00:11:39,672 --> 00:11:44,313
to for information this podcast.
So you
know your five reasons

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00:11:44,313 --> 00:11:49,050
for whatever would work.
Some
podcasts are just like a

219
00:11:49,050 --> 00:11:53,188
Hangout, Talk Show podcast.
So a
lot of times the title

220
00:11:53,188 --> 00:11:56,469
will be just something that
happened in
the show that is

221
00:11:56,469 --> 00:11:59,566
either funny.
So I just see some marketer went

222
00:11:59,566 --> 00:12:01,738

one day.
Hey, you know, what?

223
00:12:01,738 --> 00:12:05,424
If we use five ways to do this,
this will drag people in.

224
00:12:05,424 --> 00:12:07,788
It might.
But every time I see it,
I'm

225
00:12:07,788 --> 00:12:10,710
like, look, there it is again.
I don't know, it's just
me.

226
00:12:10,740 --> 00:12:13,350
Marc Ronick: You know, it could
be what you're getting at here

227
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:16,650
is that it's played out.
Because
the reality is that,

228
00:12:16,650 --> 00:12:19,758
yes, you're right.
In marketing, they did
figure

229
00:12:19,758 --> 00:12:24,561
out that does actually grab
attention using numbers in
the

230
00:12:24,561 --> 00:12:26,858
title traditionally works really
well.

231
00:12:26,858 --> 00:12:29,384
It captures
people's attention
for whatever reason.

232
00:12:29,384 --> 00:12:34,245
Taking that a layer
further,
they also say that odd numbers

233
00:12:34,245 --> 00:12:37,920
works better than even

numbers, surprisingly enough,

234
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,464
for whatever reason.
So if you
go three, five,

235
00:12:40,464 --> 00:12:41,310
yeah.
I know.

236
00:12:41,310 --> 00:12:42,833
Alex, yeah.
Did you know the
actual

237
00:12:42,833 --> 00:12:44,490
reason?
Alex Balish: Actually, I do know

238
00:12:44,490 --> 00:12:46,670

the actual answer.
The reason being is we, that's

239
00:12:46,670 --> 00:12:49,323
the way we
learn.
If you ever take your phone

240
00:12:49,323 --> 00:12:52,041
number, it's three, three
and
four.

241
00:12:52,041 --> 00:12:56,223
And I understand, like, when you
learn you want
three steps,

242
00:12:56,223 --> 00:12:59,580
because that odd number, for
some reason in our
brain,

243
00:12:59,580 --> 00:13:03,520
yeah, likes it better, and even
numbers just don't are
more

244
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,284
soothing, as opposed to an odd
number, which is off, and


245
00:13:07,292 --> 00:13:11,100
that's why a lot of this stuff
is the way it is during


246
00:13:11,108 --> 00:13:13,200
teaching.
That's a very big thing, three

247
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,148
steps, whether your
coach,
whether your teacher, whatever

248
00:13:16,148 --> 00:13:17,670
else.
But I know Dr had
something.

249
00:13:17,700 --> 00:13:19,530
Marc Ronick: And also, yeah, and

I'm going to get to her in one

250
00:13:19,530 --> 00:13:21,665
second.
And I also agree with
John

251
00:13:21,665 --> 00:13:24,925
that it might those types of
titles might not work well


252
00:13:24,933 --> 00:13:26,974
with certain types of shows,
right?

253
00:13:26,974 --> 00:13:30,360
Like informational shows,

value based shows, yeah, that

254
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,633
might work, but an entertainment

comedy style show, John, I

255
00:13:33,633 --> 00:13:37,972
used to do a pop culture comedy
ish
type show for several

256
00:13:37,972 --> 00:13:41,298
years, and our titles always
ended up just
being a line

257
00:13:41,298 --> 00:13:44,250
from the show, like you were
saying something that
was

258
00:13:44,250 --> 00:13:47,634
really funny that happened that,
yeah, as far as
searchability

259
00:13:47,634 --> 00:13:51,612
goes, probably wasn't doing us
any favors, but
our audience

260
00:13:51,612 --> 00:13:55,122
knew, Okay, I'm gonna be
listening now for that


261
00:13:55,130 --> 00:13:58,170
specific line, because they knew
that's what I was doing.

262
00:13:58,530 --> 00:14:00,194
John: You know, it's funny.
I
think we should start

263
00:14:00,194 --> 00:14:02,456
something here, just as a
marketer, and
watch everybody

264
00:14:02,456 --> 00:14:05,238
fall in line.
Only use prime numbers.

265
00:14:05,238 --> 00:14:09,360
Only
prime numbers, the three
ways, the you know, the five

266
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,222
ways,
something like that, and
everybody would fall in line.


267
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:15,585
Here's my pet peeve of all,
putting the number of your


268
00:14:15,593 --> 00:14:19,215
episode first, where it says
episode 323, the five ways.

269
00:14:19,215 --> 00:14:23,055
And
you run out of real
estate, you're like, five ways

270
00:14:23,055 --> 00:14:26,200
to what
that bothers me?
Marc Ronick: Yeah, well, John,


271
00:14:26,208 --> 00:14:28,878
apparently our titles just
bother the heck out of you,


272
00:14:28,886 --> 00:14:30,230
because I've gone back and
forth.

273
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:33,437
I sometimes go through
these
phases where I want all the

274
00:14:33,437 --> 00:14:36,859
episode numbers in the
title,
because I want people to know

275
00:14:36,859 --> 00:14:40,277
what episode number, and
it's
easier to find if I go back and

276
00:14:40,277 --> 00:14:43,869
refer to that episode
number.
But then, like you said, it

277
00:14:43,869 --> 00:14:47,108
bothers me, because it does

take up real estate, John: so

278
00:14:47,108 --> 00:14:48,328
mark this.
What I do?

279
00:14:48,328 --> 00:14:52,360
I
put it at the end.
It's title, and then a line, and

280
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,730
then 407,
and then, this way,
if you search the title for you

281
00:14:56,730 --> 00:14:58,787
know,
for the number, it pops
right up.

282
00:14:58,787 --> 00:15:01,092
But it doesn't take.
Up the
front real estate.

283
00:15:01,092 --> 00:15:03,115
That's how I do it.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, that's fair.

284
00:15:03,115 --> 00:15:04,148

I think that can work too.

285
00:15:04,148 --> 00:15:07,226
And Dave in the chat says he
tried
moving the guest name to

286
00:15:07,226 --> 00:15:10,442
the end of the title and the
content
value first.

287
00:15:10,442 --> 00:15:13,677
That's what Dave I usually
encourage my clients to
do,

288
00:15:13,677 --> 00:15:18,520
and what I tried to do as well.
Even with guests, I do
like to

289
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,660
put them at the end, unless
they're a name that most


290
00:15:22,668 --> 00:15:25,730
people would recognize.
If it's a name that captures

291
00:15:25,730 --> 00:15:28,466
attention,
I'm going to put
that in the front, because

292
00:15:28,466 --> 00:15:31,410
that's that's the
value base
that I'm going with.

293
00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:35,640
But otherwise, if it's a name

that I know would be I know that

294
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,976
the guests themselves are going
to bring value.

295
00:15:37,976 --> 00:15:39,822
Great.
I'll put that at the end.

296
00:15:39,822 --> 00:15:42,952
But if my
audience doesn't
know who this person is yet, I'm

297
00:15:42,952 --> 00:15:45,550
not leading
with them.
Dr, thank you for waiting

298
00:15:45,550 --> 00:15:47,090
patiently.
What did you
want to add?

299
00:15:47,090 --> 00:15:48,820
As it's egg time?
D.R.

300
00:15:48,820 --> 00:15:50,780
Fay: Well, I already did
the
eggs.

301
00:15:50,780 --> 00:15:53,885
I didn't go early.
Good, so y'all just repeated


302
00:15:53,893 --> 00:15:58,227
exactly what I was gonna say.
Number one, I was gonna mention

303
00:15:58,227 --> 00:16:02,808
to John that a lot of people
think that if, unless it's a


304
00:16:02,816 --> 00:16:07,608
well known name, why waste that
real estate, you know, on the


305
00:16:07,616 --> 00:16:11,895
name of the guest, and I
sometimes start with a number,


306
00:16:11,903 --> 00:16:15,652
but that pipe is that what it's
called, the pipe symbol.

307
00:16:15,652 --> 00:16:19,527
Do you
know I'm saying the
line, oh, yeah, the vertical

308
00:16:19,527 --> 00:16:21,900
line, yeah,
yeah.
No, not the dash.

309
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,390
Marc Ronick: Oh yes, I know

exactly what you mean.

310
00:16:24,390 --> 00:16:25,842
D.R.
Fay: Yes, yeah.

311
00:16:25,842 --> 00:16:30,672
So
sometimes I put that
vertical line there for, you

312
00:16:30,672 --> 00:16:36,278
know,
Episode 532, vertical
line six ways to blah, blah,

313
00:16:36,278 --> 00:16:40,275
blah, but
yeah, it hasn't
really affected the, you know

314
00:16:40,275 --> 00:16:43,840
the listenership
at all for
me, from when I look at the

315
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,659
stats, John: but look at all the
real
estate you wasted.

316
00:16:46,659 --> 00:16:49,899
Episode, count the characters.
Episode,
space, number.

317
00:16:49,899 --> 00:16:52,995
Space, D.R.
Fay: we're not putting the


318
00:16:53,003 --> 00:16:54,906
word episode, we're just putting
the three digits.

319
00:16:54,906 --> 00:16:58,177
Okay, so even
the three
digits, space, pipeline.

320
00:16:58,177 --> 00:17:02,634
Space, start.
So
you've got 346, you've

321
00:17:02,634 --> 00:17:04,402
wasted six characters of your
title.


322
00:17:04,410 --> 00:17:07,079
Why can't you put it at the end?
It does the same thing.

323
00:17:07,108 --> 00:17:10,378
Marc Ronick: I think for again,
it's for the ease of the

324
00:17:10,618 --> 00:17:13,345
audience, for them to be able to

find it quickly.

325
00:17:13,345 --> 00:17:15,833
Because, like to your point,
John, if we're
taking up all

326
00:17:15,833 --> 00:17:18,131
the real estate, then it's
harder for them to
find the

327
00:17:18,131 --> 00:17:19,769
episode number at the end of the
title.

328
00:17:20,339 --> 00:17:22,648
John: But the only time you

would okay, this is a pet peeve

329
00:17:22,648 --> 00:17:24,704
of mine, and I apologize.
Marc Ronick: No, it's okay.

330
00:17:24,704 --> 00:17:25,980
This
is about titles.
Let's hear it.

331
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,950
John: So the pet peeve of mine

is the only reason you're going

332
00:17:28,950 --> 00:17:31,426
to use a number.
If someone
says, Hey, go back

333
00:17:31,426 --> 00:17:36,464
to Episode 300 to check it out.
So you go
to the title or the

334
00:17:36,464 --> 00:17:39,910
podcast in or the name of the
podcast, and
then 300 and

335
00:17:39,910 --> 00:17:42,420
it'll automatically pop up, no
matter where it is in
the

336
00:17:42,420 --> 00:17:44,096
title.
But when you waste the beginning

337
00:17:44,096 --> 00:17:47,234
of that, that six
characters
in the beginning of the title,

338
00:17:47,234 --> 00:17:50,666
it seems to me, it's
just it
could do the same thing at the

339
00:17:50,666 --> 00:17:52,305
end.
Nobody's looking for
episode

340
00:17:52,305 --> 00:17:54,615
300 in the beginning.
I don't think so.

341
00:17:54,615 --> 00:17:57,411
Again, it could
be me.
I could be wrong, but it just

342
00:17:57,411 --> 00:17:59,658
seems to me, nothing drives
me
crazy.

343
00:17:59,658 --> 00:18:02,796
It's like, hey, or the title
will be something, and you
get

344
00:18:02,796 --> 00:18:05,010
to, like, what is it?
And it's dot, dot, dot, because

345
00:18:05,010 --> 00:18:07,824
you
run out of real estate.
D.R.

346
00:18:07,824 --> 00:18:12,324
Fay: But also, that's a
whole
other discussion about don't

347
00:18:12,324 --> 00:18:14,654
number the episodes.
I'm
in the I'm in the camp

348
00:18:14,654 --> 00:18:18,950
where I do number the episodes.
But
yeah, Alex Balish: it's a

349
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:20,955
strategy,
John, so that you
have to click to do it.

350
00:18:20,955 --> 00:18:23,710
That's why it's just
there to
annoy the hell out of you.

351
00:18:23,710 --> 00:18:26,110
It works.
It's doing its
job.

352
00:18:26,110 --> 00:18:29,229
And I think Joe Rogan's starting
to do that.

353
00:18:29,229 --> 00:18:32,380
So then you
and DR will
actually have a support group

354
00:18:32,380 --> 00:18:36,555
together.
Marc Ronick: Let me go to Stacy

355
00:18:36,555 --> 00:18:38,540
Sherman, who's joined us from
the audience.

356
00:18:38,540 --> 00:18:41,340
Good morning,
Stacy, welcome
back and Yeah.

357
00:18:41,340 --> 00:18:42,570
What did you want to add to all
this?

358
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:45,216
Stacy Sherman: Good morning.

Great topic.

359
00:18:45,216 --> 00:18:48,630
My you're making me think a
little bit differently,
which

360
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:51,644
I love.
And my question or thought,

361
00:18:51,644 --> 00:18:57,210
would love to know your

thoughts is I put my guest name

362
00:18:57,390 --> 00:19:02,970
in the at the end, and you're

making me rethink, rather than

363
00:19:02,970 --> 00:19:07,320
put the person's name, my

audience is executives at

364
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,347
different companies, so I'm

putting the person's name.

365
00:19:11,347 --> 00:19:15,360
You probably wouldn't know the
name,
but you would know

366
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:19,266
Google, Microsoft, IBM.
So now I'm
wondering, Am I

367
00:19:19,266 --> 00:19:22,556
better off putting that the
company name
versus the

368
00:19:22,556 --> 00:19:24,870
person's name.
Do you have an opinion?

369
00:19:25,470 --> 00:19:26,730
Marc Ronick: I got a little

distracted.

370
00:19:26,730 --> 00:19:30,210
I'm going to admit.
Okay, so Nick's gonna respond


371
00:19:30,218 --> 00:19:33,753
first to save me here.
I got distracted.

372
00:19:33,753 --> 00:19:35,391
Sorry, he's a little
tech
issue.

373
00:19:35,391 --> 00:19:38,436
But let's go to easy.
Stacy Sherman: Yeah, I was gonna

374
00:19:38,436 --> 00:19:41,414

say it's very easy.
Do I put the company name that's

375
00:19:41,414 --> 00:19:44,076
very
recognizable, IBM,
Google, Microsoft, yes.

376
00:19:44,076 --> 00:19:48,156
Or up till now,
I've been
putting the guest name who's

377
00:19:48,156 --> 00:19:50,890
like an executive at those

companies.

378
00:19:50,890 --> 00:19:54,446
But many people may not know
their name, but they
know the

379
00:19:54,446 --> 00:19:56,190
company.
So should I be shifting?

380
00:19:56,220 --> 00:19:58,980
Marc Ronick: I would personally
say, like, if using your well,

381
00:19:58,980 --> 00:20:00,940
let's just use an example of

Apple.

382
00:20:00,940 --> 00:20:03,164
Let's just say, or let's use
yours.

383
00:20:03,164 --> 00:20:06,459
Let's say it's IBM or

Microsoft's Bill Gates.

384
00:20:06,459 --> 00:20:09,472
That's how I would do it.
Microsoft's
Bill Gates, like

385
00:20:09,472 --> 00:20:13,044
that would probably be my first
three words
of my title,

386
00:20:13,044 --> 00:20:17,715
because those are probably the
most recognizable
words to use

387
00:20:17,715 --> 00:20:21,195
for anybody who's browsing
through your titles, me


388
00:20:21,203 --> 00:20:23,943
personally Stacy Sherman: at the
beginning,
instead of saying

389
00:20:23,943 --> 00:20:26,922
what the topic is, Marc Ronick:
yeah, I would
actually say

390
00:20:26,922 --> 00:20:30,540
Microsoft, Microsoft's Bill
Gates, and
then, you know,

391
00:20:30,540 --> 00:20:35,246
some either statement he made on
the show,
or whatever the

392
00:20:35,246 --> 00:20:37,605
topic discusses.
This topic, that's how I


393
00:20:37,613 --> 00:20:40,128
personally would start it,
because I think that's what's


394
00:20:40,136 --> 00:20:44,106
going to catch the most eyeballs
in the most interest to keep


395
00:20:44,114 --> 00:20:46,716
reading the title.
Did anyone else want to chime

396
00:20:46,716 --> 00:20:48,036
in?
Does
anyone else feel

397
00:20:48,036 --> 00:20:49,885
differently?
Ralph Estep Jr.: Feel


398
00:20:49,893 --> 00:20:51,950
differently?
I think that I don't care who it

399
00:20:51,950 --> 00:20:53,839
is, and I
don't care what
company they're from.

400
00:20:53,839 --> 00:20:57,012
What's in it for me, what
are
you delivering for me?

401
00:20:57,012 --> 00:20:59,676
I think that is a much more

impactful title.

402
00:20:59,676 --> 00:21:02,430
That's my personal opinion.
I just think
you know where

403
00:21:02,430 --> 00:21:05,840
you were going with that, like
Bill Gates talks
about, or

404
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,055
Bill Gates says or something
like that.

405
00:21:08,055 --> 00:21:11,865
I think is
is better, but I
really think your title should

406
00:21:11,865 --> 00:21:15,505
be an
enticement to why the
person wants to click play and

407
00:21:15,505 --> 00:21:17,520
not just
keep scrolling to the
next thing.

408
00:21:18,030 --> 00:21:21,030
Marc Ronick: Yeah.
I mean, if
I'm doing a show

409
00:21:21,030 --> 00:21:24,372
about tech.
If my show is all about tech and

410
00:21:24,372 --> 00:21:27,768

it, I believe that my
audience, it would capture their

411
00:21:27,768 --> 00:21:30,687

attention.
If I then am leading with a big

412
00:21:30,687 --> 00:21:33,870
name, like a Bill
Gates, I
think they're, they are

413
00:21:33,870 --> 00:21:36,898
interested, and they're going to

say, Ooh, this is something

414
00:21:36,898 --> 00:21:39,894
that it's for me, right?
Like, I want
to hear what Bill

415
00:21:39,894 --> 00:21:42,102
Gates has to say about X, Y, Z,
right?

416
00:21:42,102 --> 00:21:45,042
I
don't know why I keep using
Bill Gates, especially, I know

417
00:21:45,042 --> 00:21:47,100
he's
been a little
controversial in the news

418
00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:49,337
lately, Ralph Estep Jr.: but you
just,
but Martin has clarified

419
00:21:49,337 --> 00:21:52,494
that you said what he has to say

about, yeah, and I think

420
00:21:52,494 --> 00:21:56,006
that's the value, right there is
you've
got to put in, what is

421
00:21:56,006 --> 00:21:58,056
i?
What am I going to get from

422
00:21:58,056 --> 00:21:59,810
this?
So
that's why I'm saying to

423
00:21:59,810 --> 00:22:02,440
answer Stacy.
I think the name of the


424
00:22:02,448 --> 00:22:05,435
business, that's great, the name
of the person, that's great.

425
00:22:05,435 --> 00:22:08,889
But
what is the key takeaway?
Why do I want to click listen to

426
00:22:08,889 --> 00:22:10,925
this?
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and John says

427
00:22:10,925 --> 00:22:14,100

in the chat here, or should we
put the title in our episode


428
00:22:14,108 --> 00:22:16,270
artwork?
I would say no, because that

429
00:22:16,270 --> 00:22:20,035
episode artwork really
appears
pretty small on most screens

430
00:22:20,035 --> 00:22:21,984
when we're talking about

mobile, right?

431
00:22:21,984 --> 00:22:25,662
So I just think it'll get kind
of lost and
swallowed up in

432
00:22:25,662 --> 00:22:28,962
the artwork itself.
So I personally would
avoid

433
00:22:28,962 --> 00:22:30,348
that.
BC, welcome.

434
00:22:30,348 --> 00:22:32,540
Hadn't actually said hello to
you yet
today.

435
00:22:32,540 --> 00:22:34,350
Would you?
Did you want to chime in?

436
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,504
BC Babbles: Well, good, yes.

Good morning, everyone.

437
00:22:36,504 --> 00:22:38,649
I fell asleep before the show
started,
so that's why I'm

438
00:22:38,649 --> 00:22:40,435
here now, at least not during
the show.

439
00:22:40,435 --> 00:22:42,363
We
thank you.
We put out some video.

440
00:22:42,363 --> 00:22:44,486
By the way, I'll put it
in the
show notes.

441
00:22:44,486 --> 00:22:48,642
Today, we have some clips of BC
falling
asleep last week

442
00:22:48,642 --> 00:22:51,017
during the show.
He gave me a good chuckle.


443
00:22:51,025 --> 00:22:53,068
I hope he gave some others a
chuckle too.

444
00:22:53,068 --> 00:22:56,220
And thank you BC
for allowing
us to put that up there and

445
00:22:56,220 --> 00:22:59,688
being a good sport
about it.
Yeah, it's all in today's work.

446
00:22:59,688 --> 00:23:01,770

I was gonna say, you know, this

447
00:23:01,770 --> 00:23:04,380
kind of goes back to, we had a

conversation before when I

448
00:23:04,380 --> 00:23:08,220
think, when it comes to titles,
it's got to be, you got to

449
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:11,004
figure out, Okay, we just had

this conversation.

450
00:23:11,004 --> 00:23:14,026
What question did this
conversation answer?


451
00:23:14,034 --> 00:23:17,274
What solutions does this
conversation provide, regardless

452
00:23:17,274 --> 00:23:20,720

of the guest's name?
I mean, if you have a guest

453
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,000
who's got a
very clickable,
viral name like Bill Gates that

454
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,034
you're stuck on
this morning.
Mark, great, but I think it's

455
00:23:27,034 --> 00:23:29,594
got to be okay.
What
is this episode going to

456
00:23:29,594 --> 00:23:32,643
provide to the audience?
And then that's
got to be the

457
00:23:32,643 --> 00:23:35,510
title of the episode.
Otherwise, it could
just kind

458
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:40,104
of get lost in the fray, if you
try to go for
something that

459
00:23:40,104 --> 00:23:44,664
seems Hot Topic, viral, and it
might miss the
mark in that

460
00:23:44,664 --> 00:23:46,208
sense.
Stacy Sherman: So let me


461
00:23:46,216 --> 00:23:48,140
clarify, and I appreciate
everybody's response.

462
00:23:48,140 --> 00:23:53,154
So
currently, I put the what's
in it for you, what you're going

463
00:23:53,154 --> 00:23:56,310
to
learn, and at the end, I'm
putting the executive's name.

464
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:59,433
At
the end, I'm not putting
the company.

465
00:23:59,433 --> 00:24:04,728
So I think the question
I see
is, should I be adding Google

466
00:24:04,728 --> 00:24:07,530
instead of just Joe
schmoes
name?

467
00:24:08,130 --> 00:24:11,128
Marc Ronick: I personally would,

if it's a name like Google,

468
00:24:11,128 --> 00:24:15,426
but if it's not necessarily a
name
that people would

469
00:24:15,426 --> 00:24:18,675
recognize right from the get go,
right
when they see it, I

470
00:24:18,675 --> 00:24:21,380
probably would just stick with
the guest
name, going back to

471
00:24:21,380 --> 00:24:23,894
what John was talking about
earlier, about
real estate.

472
00:24:23,894 --> 00:24:25,650
But BC, what did you want to
add?

473
00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:28,170
BC Babbles: If I can, I would

also consider, does the person

474
00:24:28,170 --> 00:24:32,310
that you're guessing on your

show are they only known as an

475
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:35,410
executive for a company.
They
may also be their own

476
00:24:35,410 --> 00:24:37,920
kind of portfolio builder.
They might
otherwise be some

477
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,956
kind of TED Talk person.
They might be some
other kind

478
00:24:40,956 --> 00:24:44,340
of, you know, consultant who's
known for other
work that

479
00:24:44,340 --> 00:24:48,792
might have more weight than just
their role as an
executive for

480
00:24:48,792 --> 00:24:51,746
a company.
So considering that, might help

481
00:24:51,746 --> 00:24:56,148
me
shift going from their name
to their company name in the

482
00:24:56,148 --> 00:24:59,065
title
of the episode.
Stacy Sherman: Yeah, that's very

483
00:24:59,065 --> 00:25:02,020

fair like Seth Godin is an
example where he's an author.


484
00:25:02,028 --> 00:25:04,880
He's not necessarily a B to B
business executive.

485
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,030
So in those
cases, yeah, I
use, I do that.

486
00:25:09,330 --> 00:25:13,620
Majority are companies B to B

show Yes, yes.

487
00:25:13,890 --> 00:25:17,580
Marc Ronick: And Seth Godin a

brand name in itself, like that.

488
00:25:17,580 --> 00:25:21,146
He's a name that a lot of people

just recognize as the brand,

489
00:25:21,146 --> 00:25:24,470
so it works also by itself.
Anyway,
that's Hi, do you

490
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:26,250
wanted to throw something in
there?

491
00:25:26,850 --> 00:25:28,530
Nikki: Thank you.
Sorry I was
putting my

492
00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:32,112
seatbelt on trying to anyway.
But yeah, I was just
gonna say

493
00:25:32,112 --> 00:25:35,580
that for me, the search ability
of the title is
really

494
00:25:35,580 --> 00:25:38,005
important, and that it could
just be for me.

495
00:25:38,005 --> 00:25:41,184
But
speaking of Bill Gates, I
have searched for things like,

496
00:25:41,184 --> 00:25:45,408
what
did Bill Gates say about
vaccines, or what did Bill Gates

497
00:25:45,408 --> 00:25:49,410

say about this or that?
And if I search that and the

498
00:25:49,410 --> 00:25:53,202
title is
congruent with that
discussion or whatever, then I'm

499
00:25:53,202 --> 00:25:56,331
probably
going to land more on
your podcast, because it's

500
00:25:56,331 --> 00:25:57,933
directly
what I've been
looking for.

501
00:25:57,933 --> 00:26:00,754
I'm not going to necessarily
click
on something because of

502
00:26:00,754 --> 00:26:05,064
a name or necessarily because it
offers
me a particular

503
00:26:05,064 --> 00:26:06,981
solution, or something like
that.

504
00:26:06,981 --> 00:26:09,850
Usually I'm
looking for
something very, very, very

505
00:26:09,850 --> 00:26:13,617
specific, and that's
the title
for me, is going to draw me into

506
00:26:13,617 --> 00:26:15,570
that if I feel like
I'm going
to get that information.

507
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:17,220
Marc Ronick: Thank you for that.



508
00:26:17,228 --> 00:26:18,780
Nikki Stacy, did you want to
respond?

509
00:26:19,290 --> 00:26:21,630
Stacy Sherman: Yeah, so

something I've been learning a

510
00:26:21,630 --> 00:26:26,490
lot to that very point is that

I've actually starting, just

511
00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:31,710
recently, creating a Q and A

section on my landing page that

512
00:26:31,710 --> 00:26:35,830
is letting the AI and humans

pick up on that.

513
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:40,200
So Q and A from your existing
shows, not
necessarily in the

514
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,263
title, but literally what you
just said,
it's going to bring

515
00:26:43,263 --> 00:26:46,157
more visibility.
Marc Ronick: Thank you.

516
00:26:46,157 --> 00:26:48,690
Stacey,
yeah, great point.
And Sid, did you want to chime

517
00:26:48,690 --> 00:26:49,809
in?
Sid Meadows: Yes.

518
00:26:49,809 --> 00:26:51,506
Good morning,
everybody.
I have a couple of thoughts on

519
00:26:51,506 --> 00:26:55,260
this, so always
default back
to my behavior when I'm looking

520
00:26:55,260 --> 00:26:58,101
at my favorite
podcast that
maybe I haven't listened to a

521
00:26:58,101 --> 00:27:00,197
while, and I'm
scrolling
through the episodes I haven't

522
00:27:00,197 --> 00:27:02,204
listened to, that's
first
thing I'm doing.

523
00:27:02,204 --> 00:27:04,745
I'm looking at the title, and
the
title is going to decide

524
00:27:04,745 --> 00:27:06,993
whether I hit play or not me
too.

525
00:27:06,993 --> 00:27:09,292
So
that's my behavior.
It's got to address.

526
00:27:09,292 --> 00:27:12,153
To Nikki's point, the
problem
I'm looking for what I'm looking

527
00:27:12,153 --> 00:27:15,060
for at that very moment.

That's why I went to that show

528
00:27:15,060 --> 00:27:16,980
that I haven't listened to in a
while, because I know they talk

529
00:27:16,980 --> 00:27:20,913
about X, Y and Z, so I'm always
paying attention to my

530
00:27:20,913 --> 00:27:24,570
behavior, but to DR's point, we
lost the
yard down into the

531
00:27:24,570 --> 00:27:25,590
audience.
Did you punch?

532
00:27:25,620 --> 00:27:27,682
Marc Ronick: I had to put her in

the audience because she had

533
00:27:27,682 --> 00:27:31,338
her mic open when she switched
over
to video, so I just had

534
00:27:31,338 --> 00:27:34,650
to quiet it down.
Sid Meadows: She's in the


535
00:27:34,658 --> 00:27:35,550
corner.
Baby's in the corner.

536
00:27:35,580 --> 00:27:38,091
That's right the other day, and
everybody's sitting around

537
00:27:38,091 --> 00:27:40,595
this.
Characters are limited, and that

538
00:27:40,595 --> 00:27:43,080

is an SEO rich location,
right?

539
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,005
So you got to think about what's

going to get picked up, not

540
00:27:46,005 --> 00:27:48,282
just by SEO, but by the podcast
SEO.


541
00:27:48,290 --> 00:27:52,464
What are people putting in the
search bar that are going to let

542
00:27:52,464 --> 00:27:55,990

your episode pop up, right?
And so use it wisely.

543
00:27:55,990 --> 00:28:00,084
I do not put
episode numbers
in it at all there, again,

544
00:28:00,084 --> 00:28:02,660
that's
conversation for other
day, but I do not put episode

545
00:28:02,660 --> 00:28:06,438
numbers in
it on my cover art
that's on my website is includes

546
00:28:06,438 --> 00:28:10,452
the episode
number, not the
player art, because the player

547
00:28:10,452 --> 00:28:13,820
art is
different, but the
actual website card is what we

548
00:28:13,820 --> 00:28:15,909
call it,
has the actual number
on it.

549
00:28:15,909 --> 00:28:19,302
And the last thing I'm saying
is, I
am going to play follow

550
00:28:19,302 --> 00:28:22,206
the leader with Stacey, because
I
learned that she was doing

551
00:28:22,206 --> 00:28:24,270
this last week when we were
together.


552
00:28:24,278 --> 00:28:26,070
And I'm like, That's freaking
brilliant.

553
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:29,634
Yeah, she sent me an
example,
and I'm going to start going

554
00:28:29,634 --> 00:28:32,558
through some of our
episodes.
And honestly, I'm going to use

555
00:28:32,558 --> 00:28:34,462
AI.
I'm going to
ask my friend

556
00:28:34,462 --> 00:28:36,873
chat GPT, what if this from
based on this
transcript, what

557
00:28:36,873 --> 00:28:40,536
are the top three questions and
answers that
or, you know,

558
00:28:40,536 --> 00:28:42,930
whatever the prompt is going to
be, something
like that, to

559
00:28:42,930 --> 00:28:45,230
get those top three or four
questions, and I'm
going to

560
00:28:45,230 --> 00:28:48,420
add them there, because that's
going to, again, add, add
for

561
00:28:48,420 --> 00:28:51,828
discoverability, because I'm
going to put it in the text, not

562
00:28:51,828 --> 00:28:54,624

on an image, and I'm thinking
about even adding it into the


563
00:28:54,632 --> 00:28:56,373
show notes.
I know I'm going to put up the

564
00:28:56,373 --> 00:28:58,872
page, but I'm
thinking I might
add it to the show notes,

565
00:28:58,872 --> 00:29:01,304
because that will
also lead to
lead to discoverability there.

566
00:29:01,304 --> 00:29:04,240
So Stacy
sent me an example of
it this morning, and I'm going

567
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,449
to go in
and play around with
it to this week and test it and

568
00:29:07,449 --> 00:29:09,108
see what
happens.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, thank you for

569
00:29:09,108 --> 00:29:10,610

calling that out.
That is a brilliant idea.

570
00:29:10,610 --> 00:29:13,336
I love that
idea.
And I was just thinking, as you

571
00:29:13,336 --> 00:29:15,840
said it Sid, I was
wondering
if you're going to also do that

572
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,636
with your show
notes.
I think that's a great place to

573
00:29:18,636 --> 00:29:21,750
do that too for SEO
purposes.
And I will say Sid Meadows:

574
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:23,115
there's limited
real estate
there too, right?

575
00:29:23,115 --> 00:29:25,257
I mean, you don't have that much

space, right?

576
00:29:25,257 --> 00:29:27,840
Okay, Marc Ronick: you but you
get,
like, I think it's like

577
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,600
4000 characters or something
like
that for your episode

578
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,760
description.
So you should have
plenty.

579
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,154
If you're already maximizing
that, then you're
going to

580
00:29:35,154 --> 00:29:37,920
have to make some changes.
But if you're not,
then, yeah,

581
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,972
I think that could work just
fine.

582
00:29:39,972 --> 00:29:44,212
What I was going
to say is,
look, this is maybe it's a

583
00:29:44,212 --> 00:29:46,599
common argument or a
common
debate, SEO.

584
00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:49,547
In my opinion, this is what
we're
talking about, SEO

585
00:29:49,547 --> 00:29:50,877
versus audience convenience,
right?

586
00:29:50,877 --> 00:29:54,070
Who
are we really catering to
with these titles?

587
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:58,425
Is it important
that we only
focus on SEO and that?

588
00:29:58,425 --> 00:30:01,558
And why I'm asking that
is.
because to your point, to John's

589
00:30:01,558 --> 00:30:05,441
point, the real estate
and oh,
we can't put the those three

590
00:30:05,441 --> 00:30:07,408
numbers in the front of
the
title.

591
00:30:07,408 --> 00:30:09,342
Those three numbers being your
episode number.

592
00:30:09,342 --> 00:30:12,256
We
can't do that.
It's wasting real estate, real

593
00:30:12,256 --> 00:30:14,768
estate.
The
algorithms don't care

594
00:30:14,768 --> 00:30:16,736
about that.
It's not SEO friendly.

595
00:30:16,736 --> 00:30:20,794
But
when you know to Sid's
point the way I personally am

596
00:30:20,794 --> 00:30:23,790
searching.
I
do look for episode numbers,

597
00:30:23,820 --> 00:30:27,540
especially if I'm listening to

an episode and my the host I'm

598
00:30:27,540 --> 00:30:32,610
listening to says, Oh yeah, back

in episode 122, well, if it's

599
00:30:32,610 --> 00:30:37,890
not listed there, if I can't

find 122 then I that's gone.

600
00:30:37,890 --> 00:30:40,881
It's lost.
And that host just
lost a

601
00:30:40,881 --> 00:30:43,590
download and some listener
retention numbers.

602
00:30:44,250 --> 00:30:48,360
Sid Meadows: So however, Mark,

yeah, if you as a host say, Oh,

603
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,440
well, you know, in Episode 386

we talked about, boom, boom,

604
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,179
boom, and you don't link that in

your show notes, you're being

605
00:30:56,179 --> 00:30:59,108
a bad host, because I'm not
going
to go searching for it.

606
00:30:59,108 --> 00:31:01,593
I am not going to search for it.
I'm
going to click on the show

607
00:31:01,593 --> 00:31:05,096
notes and click that link and
open if
it's not there, and

608
00:31:05,096 --> 00:31:07,749
that's with anything that you
say that
you're referencing,

609
00:31:07,749 --> 00:31:10,356
and you say, Well, put it in the
show notes
and you don't

610
00:31:10,356 --> 00:31:13,164
you're being a bad host.
Marc Ronick: I agree with you,


611
00:31:13,172 --> 00:31:16,605
and yes, I do that too.
I like to just create as many


612
00:31:16,613 --> 00:31:19,305
conveniences as I possibly can
for my audience.

613
00:31:19,305 --> 00:31:21,648
But you make a
very valid
point.

614
00:31:21,648 --> 00:31:24,921
I can't argue that you, if
you're going to
reference an

615
00:31:24,921 --> 00:31:27,365
episode, link to it.
I don't know how many times


616
00:31:27,373 --> 00:31:28,765
I've had that conversation with
clients.

617
00:31:28,765 --> 00:31:31,680
It's an easy thing to
forget,
and I'm sure we've forgotten

618
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,816
before, like we've
said we're
going to link to something and

619
00:31:34,816 --> 00:31:37,636
we didn't, right,
but we do
our best.

620
00:31:37,636 --> 00:31:41,589
And yeah, great point.
Sid, so All right,
Dr, did you

621
00:31:41,589 --> 00:31:43,890
have something else?
I saw your hand was up.

622
00:31:44,460 --> 00:31:45,783
D.R.
Fay: Well, I was just gonna


623
00:31:45,791 --> 00:31:49,172
say, not only do you have to
think about as a host, not only

624
00:31:49,172 --> 00:31:53,582
do you have to think about, you
know, it's in the show notes, go

625
00:31:53,582 --> 00:31:57,156

to the show notes, and the
link will be there, but you also

626
00:31:57,156 --> 00:32:00,831
have
to think about, do you
speak on stages, and maybe the

627
00:32:00,831 --> 00:32:07,135
talk that
you're giving is
actually a topic that you did 17

628
00:32:07,135 --> 00:32:11,325
episodes
ago.
And so that's why these episode

629
00:32:11,325 --> 00:32:14,430
numbers are so helpful,

because to your audience, you're

630
00:32:14,430 --> 00:32:17,570
going to say, make sure to catch

episode.

631
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:22,015
You know, 352, where I talk
about monetization, and
five,

632
00:32:22,015 --> 00:32:26,256
570 I talked about monetization
on that one as
well, and we

633
00:32:26,256 --> 00:32:28,832
also covered monetization on
episode 17.

634
00:32:28,832 --> 00:32:33,328
So
it also helps in that
respect as well.

635
00:32:33,328 --> 00:32:39,540
And also, I put the guests

name in the author part of you

636
00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:41,740
know when you're filling out on
your host.

637
00:32:41,740 --> 00:32:45,078
I put it in the author section
right after.

638
00:32:45,078 --> 00:32:50,288
I'll
put, you know, business
coach Deb bolanger, which client

639
00:32:50,288 --> 00:32:54,644
of
mine, comma, leadership
coach Jane Doe, or whatever the

640
00:32:54,644 --> 00:32:57,240
name
is, Marc Ronick: okay?
Yeah.

641
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,040
All
makes sense.
All good points.

642
00:32:59,250 --> 00:33:03,600
Thank you, Dr, and by the way, I

don't think we've really No, I

643
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,117
don't know that anybody here has

yet to say, well, maybe a

644
00:33:07,117 --> 00:33:10,874
couple of people, but yet to
agree or
disagree with that

645
00:33:10,874 --> 00:33:14,376
statement.
Just as far as episode titles


646
00:33:14,384 --> 00:33:17,855
being an extremely valuable I
know that's not the actuals.


647
00:33:17,863 --> 00:33:22,062
I'll pull that up in a second,
but I do want to find out how


648
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:24,575
important are titles.
That's really one of the big

649
00:33:24,575 --> 00:33:26,962
questions
today.
And of course, yes, we want to

650
00:33:26,962 --> 00:33:29,450
figure out what's the
most
effective titles, too.

651
00:33:29,450 --> 00:33:33,390
And somebody in the chat here,

Stacy, asked, what platform do

652
00:33:33,390 --> 00:33:35,920
we use to write titles and get

ranking?

653
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,504
Do we have a favorite tool?
So with that, Ralph, I saw


654
00:33:39,512 --> 00:33:41,190
you.
You chimed in the chat.

655
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:44,700
Would you share here out loud?
Ralph Estep Jr.: I do.

656
00:33:44,700 --> 00:33:48,180
I use vid
IQ.
I'm one of their power pack.

657
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,530
So anytime we do any audio or

video, we go to vid IQ to test

658
00:33:52,530 --> 00:33:54,492
it.
And it's been really
effective

659
00:33:54,492 --> 00:33:57,081
for me.
In fact, oftentimes we'll go

660
00:33:57,081 --> 00:34:01,596
back into
our catalog and
retitle things, and I found that

661
00:34:01,596 --> 00:34:03,818
does move the
needle
sometimes, because they're

662
00:34:03,818 --> 00:34:05,206
really looking at
impactful
titles.

663
00:34:05,206 --> 00:34:07,946
It's been super, super helpful.
But I want
to interject one

664
00:34:07,946 --> 00:34:10,527
other thing, sure, as we were
talking about
these episode

665
00:34:10,527 --> 00:34:14,757
numbers, use your website and
point them to your
featured

666
00:34:14,757 --> 00:34:17,025
episodes, because there's real
estate on your
website.

667
00:34:17,025 --> 00:34:19,440
If you're going to be talking
about a particular
episode,

668
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,580
say, hey, go to our featured
episodes.

669
00:34:21,580 --> 00:34:24,960
It's in our
featured episodes.
I actually think that's more

670
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,310
impactful than
an episode
number, but I just wanted to

671
00:34:27,310 --> 00:34:30,159
throw that out there,
because
there's a, if you have a, if you

672
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:32,873
have a good website,
that's
something you can use, that will

673
00:34:32,873 --> 00:34:35,510
people, and you're
reinforcing
your brand, you're taking them

674
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:37,464
back to your place
that you
own.

675
00:34:37,464 --> 00:34:40,701
And I just think that's easier
than saying, well,
go to

676
00:34:40,701 --> 00:34:42,710
Episode 300 then they're sitting
there on their thing,
scroll.

677
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:45,605
Their thing, scrolling through
trying to find 300 Marc Ronick:

678
00:34:45,605 --> 00:34:46,882
Yeah, fair enough.

Thank you, Ralph.

679
00:34:46,882 --> 00:34:50,063
And Ralph actually walked me
through vid
IQ, I think it was

680
00:34:50,063 --> 00:34:52,367
a week ago, and I was very
impressed.

681
00:34:52,367 --> 00:34:56,215
I've
heard so much about it.
I know so many people use it,

682
00:34:56,215 --> 00:34:59,056
and I
just hadn't really
looked at it yet.

683
00:34:59,056 --> 00:35:02,006
And it's really impressive
of
all the different areas that it

684
00:35:02,006 --> 00:35:04,328
can help you with your

content.

685
00:35:04,328 --> 00:35:07,970
It'll really analyze everything
about say your
YouTube video

686
00:35:07,970 --> 00:35:11,681
and tell you exactly where it
can prove and
how to improve

687
00:35:11,681 --> 00:35:13,132
it.
It is really impressive.

688
00:35:13,132 --> 00:35:17,879
I have a tool that I
created
myself, and I'm sharing it here,

689
00:35:17,879 --> 00:35:20,849
and we will share it in
the
show notes as well.

690
00:35:20,849 --> 00:35:27,839
I created a custom GPT that's

based off of literally 1000s of

691
00:35:27,869 --> 00:35:33,449
episodes, both YouTube and

podcast, popular podcasts, and

692
00:35:33,479 --> 00:35:37,088
they're popular episodes.
And it
basically I had it

693
00:35:37,088 --> 00:35:40,859
analyze all of the different
episodes, and I
created it as

694
00:35:40,859 --> 00:35:43,689
a title generator.
So now what I do for every


695
00:35:43,697 --> 00:35:46,961
episode is, when the episode's
over, I give it the transcript,

696
00:35:46,961 --> 00:35:50,438
and I tell it to give me a
variety of titles.

697
00:35:50,438 --> 00:35:54,894
And yes,
John, it does give me
number titles as part of its


698
00:35:54,902 --> 00:35:56,816
suggestions another type of
title.

699
00:35:56,816 --> 00:35:59,945
It'll give me our
negative
based hooks, because that also

700
00:35:59,945 --> 00:36:03,327
apparently attracts
more
attention when you write a hook

701
00:36:03,327 --> 00:36:06,188
negatively.
I hate that,
like I don't like

702
00:36:06,188 --> 00:36:08,639
to put out negative phrases and
terms.

703
00:36:08,639 --> 00:36:12,509
I
think that our words are
important, but I do know that


704
00:36:12,517 --> 00:36:14,684
sometimes that's going to
attract more attention.

705
00:36:14,684 --> 00:36:17,279
So I
might choose from one of
those.

706
00:36:17,339 --> 00:36:21,509
It has several different types

of titles that it's deemed as

707
00:36:21,779 --> 00:36:25,379
important, as valuable as ones

that can work really well.

708
00:36:25,379 --> 00:36:28,576
And this is something free that
I
usually share with my

709
00:36:28,576 --> 00:36:30,896
clients, that I'm sharing with
you here
today.

710
00:36:30,896 --> 00:36:36,946
It's podcasting, morning
chat.com/title, Gen g e n, as in

711
00:36:36,946 --> 00:36:39,317

generator.
So if you're interested in that,

712
00:36:39,317 --> 00:36:42,113
give it a
whirl and let me
know what you think it's done.

713
00:36:42,113 --> 00:36:45,383
It's been a
great help.
I've noticed especially with our

714
00:36:45,383 --> 00:36:48,395
live videos,
because I apply
it to our live videos after

715
00:36:48,395 --> 00:36:52,364
they're done and
archived, and
I've noticed a pretty

716
00:36:52,364 --> 00:36:56,549
significant uptick in our

views since I've started using

717
00:36:56,549 --> 00:36:59,051
this generator for our YouTube

Live videos.

718
00:36:59,051 --> 00:37:01,786
Tide, did you want to ask a
question, or did you
have

719
00:37:01,786 --> 00:37:03,540
something Tide: I did want to
ask a
question.

720
00:37:03,540 --> 00:37:06,369
When you said negative, were you
referring to
negative in the

721
00:37:06,369 --> 00:37:09,486
sense that it's like, negative,
click, baby,
bad, all of that,

722
00:37:09,486 --> 00:37:12,622
or were you referring to
negative as in,
like, having a

723
00:37:12,622 --> 00:37:15,996
not in the title, like, why you
shouldn't or
should not do

724
00:37:15,996 --> 00:37:16,552
this?
What?

725
00:37:16,552 --> 00:37:18,774
What negative did?
Marc Ronick: I think it actually

726
00:37:18,774 --> 00:37:20,924

could be either or.
It can be either or.

727
00:37:20,924 --> 00:37:23,970
And, yes, I mean,
look, I
don't like to say it's

728
00:37:23,970 --> 00:37:27,540
clickbaity, because I really, if

it feels clickbaity to me, I

729
00:37:27,540 --> 00:37:31,296
actually avoid it.
But yes, it
is negative stuff,

730
00:37:31,296 --> 00:37:35,076
like this thing that you're
doing, you
know, this is not

731
00:37:35,076 --> 00:37:38,436
probably the best structure of
the title, but
basically the

732
00:37:38,436 --> 00:37:42,702
idea of negativity is, you know,
this thing, your
titles are

733
00:37:42,702 --> 00:37:45,357
killing your podcast.
There you go.

734
00:37:45,357 --> 00:37:47,424
That's one like to
apply to
this episode.

735
00:37:47,424 --> 00:37:51,086
I don't know that I'm going to
use that,
but that would be

736
00:37:51,086 --> 00:37:55,286
the idea of a type of negative
title, yeah,
but it couldn't

737
00:37:55,286 --> 00:37:58,770
also say things like, you know,
don't do this.


738
00:37:58,778 --> 00:38:02,444
You shouldn't do that, like,
that's also considered negative

739
00:38:02,444 --> 00:38:05,900
based.
So let me know how what you guys

740
00:38:05,900 --> 00:38:07,220
think?
Yes, Dr, did you
have

741
00:38:07,220 --> 00:38:09,402
something?
No, she's like, Oh no, I didn't

742
00:38:09,402 --> 00:38:11,904
have anything to
say.
Okay, cool, Ralph Estep Jr.:

743
00:38:11,904 --> 00:38:12,933
Mark.
I'll jump
in there with the

744
00:38:12,933 --> 00:38:14,595
negative, because I think
negative works.


745
00:38:14,603 --> 00:38:17,490
And I think it's because as
you're driving down the road and

746
00:38:17,490 --> 00:38:20,026

you see a car wreck, your head
turns and looks at the car


747
00:38:20,034 --> 00:38:22,230
wreck, and you do the same thing
with a title.

748
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:25,642
It works for me,
and I don't
do it all the time, because you

749
00:38:25,642 --> 00:38:28,920
can become like that
negative
guy, but I do think it draws

750
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,380
your attention.
Marc Ronick: It definitely does.

751
00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:32,172


It definitely does.

752
00:38:32,172 --> 00:38:36,038
And I'm curious, how do others
find
specific episodes?

753
00:38:36,038 --> 00:38:40,050
How important are titles to you
when you're
looking for a

754
00:38:40,050 --> 00:38:44,270
podcast like Sid said, If Sid's
gone back to a
podcast that

755
00:38:44,270 --> 00:38:47,776
was, you know, one of his
favorites, or maybe even,
I

756
00:38:47,776 --> 00:38:50,935
assume, at least this is for me,
if somebody says, hey,
you've

757
00:38:50,935 --> 00:38:54,296
got to check out this podcast,
and they just give me
the

758
00:38:54,296 --> 00:38:57,298
overall series title, you know,
they don't give me a
specific

759
00:38:57,298 --> 00:39:00,180
episode, I'll go and that's what
I'm going to do, is
I'm going

760
00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:03,322
to scroll through The episodes,
and all I'm looking at
are the

761
00:39:03,322 --> 00:39:04,798
titles.
What's got me interested.

762
00:39:04,798 --> 00:39:07,089
And when I find
something, I
stop.

763
00:39:07,089 --> 00:39:09,927
I'll click on it.
I don't necessarily hit play


764
00:39:09,935 --> 00:39:12,450
right away.
I might if the title really

765
00:39:12,450 --> 00:39:16,556
grabs my attention, but
that's
what it's going to first, at the

766
00:39:16,556 --> 00:39:20,019
very least, grab my
attention
enough to tap on it and read the

767
00:39:20,019 --> 00:39:23,376
description next,
and if I'm
sold at that point, then you're

768
00:39:23,376 --> 00:39:25,284
definitely getting a
play out
of me.

769
00:39:25,284 --> 00:39:28,754
But those titles feel super
important when I
think about

770
00:39:28,754 --> 00:39:34,085
the way that I'm using them
Ralph Estep Jr.: into but do you

771
00:39:34,085 --> 00:39:35,440

go into the podcast app and
search?

772
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,940
Because I don't know too
many
people that do that.

773
00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:40,830
I think most people go on to

Google and search or go into

774
00:39:40,830 --> 00:39:43,370
YouTube and search.
But how many
people act and I

775
00:39:43,370 --> 00:39:46,662
could be wrong, how many people
actually go into
their podcast

776
00:39:46,662 --> 00:39:48,810
app and search?
I don't know the answer to that.

777
00:39:48,810 --> 00:39:52,560
Marc Ronick: No, I personally

will search for a podcast within

778
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,064
the player, but I am not

necessarily searching.

779
00:39:56,064 --> 00:40:00,948
I might do a search for like
ADHD if I'm
curious about an

780
00:40:00,948 --> 00:40:03,384
ADHD podcast.
I don't know which one, or, you

781
00:40:03,384 --> 00:40:07,988
know, I don't want to listen to
my usual ones, so I might search

782
00:40:07,988 --> 00:40:12,218

ADHD, but I'm not.
My personal way of searching on

783
00:40:12,218 --> 00:40:15,060
a podcast
platform is not
super specific.

784
00:40:15,060 --> 00:40:17,340
The way I would search for

something on Google, for

785
00:40:17,340 --> 00:40:20,514
example, or I would go into an

AI to get deeper.

786
00:40:20,514 --> 00:40:22,976
So, yeah, John, you had
something, and
then we'll go

787
00:40:22,976 --> 00:40:25,305
back to Sid.
John: All right, so I was just


788
00:40:25,313 --> 00:40:27,150
thinking about this, how I
search for podcasts.

789
00:40:27,150 --> 00:40:31,352
So if it's
a podcast that I
have subscribed to, when I go

790
00:40:31,352 --> 00:40:35,940
down to listen to
the 50 that
I'm subscribed to, I look at the

791
00:40:35,940 --> 00:40:38,280
titles.
But now I'm
really interested

792
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,092
in artificial intelligence.
I do go to my
podcast player,

793
00:40:43,092 --> 00:40:46,485
which is overcast, and search
artificial
intelligence.

794
00:40:46,485 --> 00:40:49,854
I tried AI that gives you a
whole bunch of
different ones,

795
00:40:49,854 --> 00:40:52,368
because I'm trying to find
podcasts that are
talking

796
00:40:52,368 --> 00:40:55,182
about artificial intelligence.
And it's really
weird, I

797
00:40:55,182 --> 00:41:00,081
search for podcasts differently
than I search for
videos on

798
00:41:00,081 --> 00:41:02,510
YouTube.
So that's something I want to

799
00:41:02,510 --> 00:41:05,229
think about
now that maybe we
should start to try to

800
00:41:05,229 --> 00:41:07,728
incorporate something
in our
titles the way you would search

801
00:41:07,728 --> 00:41:10,003
in YouTube too.
It's a
great, this is a great

802
00:41:10,003 --> 00:41:12,435
topic because I never thought
about
this, but titles this

803
00:41:12,435 --> 00:41:16,938
much in my entire career.
Marc Ronick: Well, good.

804
00:41:16,938 --> 00:41:18,000
I'm
glad, I'm glad it's
helpful.

805
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,192
John, thank you.
Yeah, I'm
actually that's been

806
00:41:21,192 --> 00:41:25,410
my latest experiment these days,
is I'm
actually curious.

807
00:41:25,410 --> 00:41:29,130
I'm look my generator that I
just shared
with you was

808
00:41:29,130 --> 00:41:32,397
originally based more on YouTube
videos than
podcast specific.

809
00:41:32,397 --> 00:41:37,050
Of course, a lot of the YouTube
videos are
also podcasts, but

810
00:41:37,050 --> 00:41:41,910
I am approaching my titles the
same
way for my podcast.

811
00:41:41,940 --> 00:41:45,488
John: So here's a question.
You
have your podcast and then

812
00:41:45,488 --> 00:41:48,915
you have your video.
I always go
back and change

813
00:41:48,915 --> 00:41:53,692
the title of when I live stream
to the title
of the podcast.

814
00:41:53,692 --> 00:41:56,465
Do I have to?
No, I don't have to.

815
00:41:56,465 --> 00:41:59,160
My YouTube
title could be
different for searchability than

816
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,460
my podcast
title.
Marc Ronick: I do two different

817
00:42:02,460 --> 00:42:05,475
titles for my live video versus
the podcast title.

818
00:42:05,475 --> 00:42:10,100
So my live
there are very
similar, but one of the things I

819
00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:13,608
think, is that
YouTube might
not like that if I have two

820
00:42:13,608 --> 00:42:15,456
different videos with
the same
title.

821
00:42:15,456 --> 00:42:18,732
I'm not sure, but I feel like
maybe the
algorithm wouldn't

822
00:42:18,732 --> 00:42:21,711
love that, just the same way
that I know it
wouldn't love

823
00:42:21,711 --> 00:42:24,545
if we're uploading the same
video exactly with the
same

824
00:42:24,545 --> 00:42:27,780
title and all that.
So I'm just trying to be a

825
00:42:27,780 --> 00:42:31,245
little more
creative and give
the live video a different title

826
00:42:31,245 --> 00:42:34,365
than the
podcast episode.
That's what I do.

827
00:42:34,365 --> 00:42:37,734
Sid, what did you want to
add?
Sid Meadows: I think about


828
00:42:37,742 --> 00:42:40,330
Google and YouTube.
In the way that we search, we're

829
00:42:40,330 --> 00:42:43,640
asking a
question.
Tell me how to monetize my

830
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,128
podcast.
That's a
question you could

831
00:42:46,128 --> 00:42:48,682
put inside a question, to be
fair.

832
00:42:48,682 --> 00:42:52,485
Well, tell
me or what are ways
to monetize my podcast, right?

833
00:42:52,485 --> 00:42:55,700
It's a
question that you could
ask Google, get an answer, and

834
00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:58,974
it's
also a question you could
ask the what I would refer to as

835
00:42:58,974 --> 00:43:00,740
the
University of YouTube to
go learn something.

836
00:43:00,740 --> 00:43:03,222
And a lot of
people use
YouTube that way to go learn

837
00:43:03,222 --> 00:43:04,302
something.
That's not
something you're

838
00:43:04,302 --> 00:43:06,420
going to type inside the podcast
player.

839
00:43:06,450 --> 00:43:07,845
Marc Ronick: How come?
Sid Meadows: you're going to


840
00:43:07,853 --> 00:43:09,490
type inside the podcast player?
Podcast monetization?

841
00:43:09,490 --> 00:43:12,654
That's
just my opinion.
But when you listen to people

842
00:43:12,654 --> 00:43:15,666
like Courtney
Elmer, who is
the host of the secrets of the

843
00:43:15,666 --> 00:43:19,496
top 100 podcast
he spent hours
talking about podcast CEO did a

844
00:43:19,496 --> 00:43:22,971
course around
podcast SEO, I
think you understand the value

845
00:43:22,971 --> 00:43:26,931
that more
and more and more
people are searching inside the

846
00:43:26,931 --> 00:43:30,724
player for
content that
they're interested in, like

847
00:43:30,724 --> 00:43:32,080
mindset, or whatever it
might
be.

848
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,225
You're going to go up into the
player and you're going
to

849
00:43:35,225 --> 00:43:37,938
click on mindset, and you're
going to get episodes that have

850
00:43:37,938 --> 00:43:40,758
the mindset in the title.
You're going to get shows a tab

851
00:43:40,758 --> 00:43:44,252
you can
push on for shows that
list all the shows that have

852
00:43:44,252 --> 00:43:45,714
that talk
about mindset,
right?

853
00:43:45,714 --> 00:43:47,604
So I think it's just, I think
it's you.


854
00:43:47,612 --> 00:43:49,700
That's how I use it again.
I look at my behavior.

855
00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:51,760
I don't put
a question inside
the podcast player.

856
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,420
I put a question inside
of
YouTube or a question inside of

857
00:43:54,420 --> 00:43:56,100
Google.
Marc Ronick: So I appreciate


858
00:43:56,108 --> 00:43:57,012
that.
And you're right.

859
00:43:57,012 --> 00:43:59,524
That's like I said, that's how I

basically search, too.

860
00:43:59,524 --> 00:44:01,845
Is I'm searching just like a
keyword.


861
00:44:01,853 --> 00:44:06,256
I'm not putting in the question
like I might on Google or in


862
00:44:06,264 --> 00:44:08,670
YouTube, but my question is, is,
why not?

863
00:44:08,670 --> 00:44:11,505
Why don't we try that
and see
what happens?

864
00:44:11,505 --> 00:44:12,515
Right?
Like, John: I'm game.

865
00:44:12,515 --> 00:44:14,370
I can try that
right?
Marc Ronick: Like, because I


866
00:44:14,378 --> 00:44:17,718
think it's more of our habits,
because for so long, I think


867
00:44:17,726 --> 00:44:21,480
that the podcast player that the
way we interacted with it for


868
00:44:21,488 --> 00:44:25,650
years was just that we was
typing in a show name or typing

869
00:44:25,650 --> 00:44:28,157
in one keyword and seeing what
comes up.

870
00:44:28,157 --> 00:44:31,403
But I'm curious, why
aren't we
using it more like a search

871
00:44:31,403 --> 00:44:32,462
engine?
Who knows?

872
00:44:32,462 --> 00:44:36,825
I
think, just as a user, and
also that's the other thing is,

873
00:44:36,825 --> 00:44:40,455
I
wonder how newer podcast
listeners, people who are newer

874
00:44:40,455 --> 00:44:44,035
to the podcast experience.
I wonder if they're using it

875
00:44:44,035 --> 00:44:48,150
like
us Sid, or if they're
actually using it more like a

876
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:51,348
YouTube
search, because that's
where they're probably used to

877
00:44:51,348 --> 00:44:54,579
getting
their content.
And if now they're introduced in

878
00:44:54,579 --> 00:44:58,611
a part of
the podcast world,
maybe they're using their their

879
00:44:58,611 --> 00:45:00,868
searches in a
very similar
way.

880
00:45:00,868 --> 00:45:03,432
Who knows?
Sid Meadows: So I just did it,


881
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,176
yeah.
And I typed in the question, how

882
00:45:05,176 --> 00:45:09,432
do I monetize my
podcast?
And I got top results that keep

883
00:45:09,432 --> 00:45:12,355
strolling, most of
them from
Pat Flynn, right?

884
00:45:12,355 --> 00:45:13,715
He's number three on that
search.

885
00:45:13,715 --> 00:45:15,914
If
I did that, was the top
results on shows.

886
00:45:15,914 --> 00:45:18,370
He's number one on the
actual
show list.

887
00:45:18,370 --> 00:45:22,384
But then it goes to ask the
podcast coach
with Dave, Dave

888
00:45:22,384 --> 00:45:25,296
Jackson, and then the next one
is real estate
survivals

889
00:45:25,296 --> 00:45:26,886
guide.
Well, that doesn't about

890
00:45:26,886 --> 00:45:29,790
podcasting, right?

But then Courtney Elmer shows up

891
00:45:29,790 --> 00:45:33,028
as the next one.
So, and then I
look at

892
00:45:33,028 --> 00:45:38,285
episodes, it's got the how do I
monetize is in the
title,

893
00:45:38,285 --> 00:45:41,808
okay, so that's what, how do I
because, like, the reason


894
00:45:41,816 --> 00:45:45,012
Pat's showing up so much is, how
do I monetize my course, my


895
00:45:45,020 --> 00:45:48,066
parenting site, yeah, my
business after so that's picking

896
00:45:48,066 --> 00:45:51,546

up the specific keyword.
How do I modify so it does look

897
00:45:51,546 --> 00:45:54,520
like,
yeah, it's going to give
you some pretty decent results

898
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,855
based
on the question.
So I may try that, continue to

899
00:45:57,855 --> 00:46:00,196
try that one,
to see when I'm
searching for something and

900
00:46:00,196 --> 00:46:02,670
change my behavior
and see if
I get better results.

901
00:46:02,700 --> 00:46:05,022
Marc Ronick: Right?
I just
searched for on Apple

902
00:46:05,022 --> 00:46:07,848
podcasts, how do I focus more
with ADHD?


903
00:46:07,856 --> 00:46:12,087
And the top result is from a
podcast called, do I have ADHD?

904
00:46:12,087 --> 00:46:14,040

And it's episode and by the way,

905
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:19,890
she starts it, Episode 110 EP

110 and the title is, more ways

906
00:46:19,890 --> 00:46:24,930
to focus with ADHD, and I am

impressed she actually the title

907
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:31,080
has more than one title in it.

It says more ways to focus with

908
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:35,490
ADHD, and then it uses that pipe

that Dr was talking about, the

909
00:46:35,490 --> 00:46:39,450
vertical line.
Then it says how
to focus with

910
00:46:39,450 --> 00:46:42,286
ADHD pipe, focus tips for ADHD
adults.

911
00:46:42,286 --> 00:46:45,920
I think
that that is a really
smart way look.

912
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,684
It's the first time I'm
really
thinking about it this way.

913
00:46:48,684 --> 00:46:53,335
But add but phrasing,
adding
multiple phrases to the title

914
00:46:53,335 --> 00:46:56,412
that are short, sweet,

directly to the point.

915
00:46:56,412 --> 00:46:59,253
I think that there's something
to be
said about that.

916
00:46:59,253 --> 00:47:03,580
And I'm looking here all of the
at least these
first we'll

917
00:47:03,580 --> 00:47:08,442
call them five to 10 episodes
that of the top results
all

918
00:47:08,442 --> 00:47:13,704
apply to what I was looking for.
Here, another one from a
show.

919
00:47:13,704 --> 00:47:17,652
The title is ADHD, how to break
the paralysis cycle,
right?

920
00:47:17,652 --> 00:47:20,850
So, yeah, I think that if we
start using our search a


921
00:47:20,858 --> 00:47:24,330
little bit more like we would
use a Google or YouTube search,

922
00:47:24,330 --> 00:47:28,050
we might find better results.
Maybe we need to educate


923
00:47:28,058 --> 00:47:31,314
audiences more about how to
search on the podcast players, I

924
00:47:31,314 --> 00:47:33,696

don't know, Sid Meadows: so I
wonder if
she's using a tool

925
00:47:33,696 --> 00:47:36,639
like answer the public could be
to get the
questions that

926
00:47:36,639 --> 00:47:39,981
people are asking around ADHD,
because she's put
three,

927
00:47:39,981 --> 00:47:43,446
basically three separate titles
in that episode, which
every

928
00:47:43,446 --> 00:47:46,635
one of them is something that
somebody is likely
searching

929
00:47:46,635 --> 00:47:48,936
for.
So it's going to pop up, right?

930
00:47:48,936 --> 00:47:50,868
Because she put
the pipe
there.

931
00:47:50,868 --> 00:47:53,245
And that's basically three
separate titles,
in my

932
00:47:53,245 --> 00:47:55,530
opinion.
So she could be using an answer

933
00:47:55,530 --> 00:47:58,428
in the public D.R.
Fay: or even just Google.


934
00:47:58,436 --> 00:48:02,178
Just when you go to Google,
there is people are also asking,

935
00:48:02,178 --> 00:48:05,070

and then they have like, those
three questions in Google.

936
00:48:05,700 --> 00:48:08,220
Marc Ronick: Yeah, that could

very well be interesting

937
00:48:08,250 --> 00:48:11,312
discussion here.
All right, so I
think we've

938
00:48:11,312 --> 00:48:14,625
kind of gone through what makes
titles effective,
right?

939
00:48:14,625 --> 00:48:18,480
But let's see, is there anything
else we should be
thinking

940
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,359
about in our title since we're
here now, in this
area of the

941
00:48:22,359 --> 00:48:25,062
conversation, do you think, you
know, we've talked
about real

942
00:48:25,062 --> 00:48:28,665
estate, do you think that
shorter titles perform
better?

943
00:48:28,665 --> 00:48:32,544
Does it depend Ralph your
thoughts and yeah, do you
have

944
00:48:32,544 --> 00:48:33,894
something else?
Ralph Estep Jr.: Absolutely, I


945
00:48:33,902 --> 00:48:36,798
think you've got to keep your
title short, because people's


946
00:48:36,806 --> 00:48:40,795
attention is quick.
If you've got a title that takes

947
00:48:40,795 --> 00:48:43,586
up all
the characters.
I honestly don't think that's

948
00:48:43,586 --> 00:48:45,726
effective.
I think
if you can make it

949
00:48:45,726 --> 00:48:48,609
super short, like my title, my
daily show
today is, here's

950
00:48:48,609 --> 00:48:52,646
the or do you know the secret to
pay off
credit cards super

951
00:48:52,646 --> 00:48:54,458
quick, grabs your attention.
Oh, I have
credit cards.

952
00:48:54,458 --> 00:48:56,150
I want to learn how to pay them
off.

953
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:59,068
I got to
click on this.
I had been trimming that down a

954
00:48:59,068 --> 00:49:02,350
lot,
because there were times
when my title was like a book,

955
00:49:02,350 --> 00:49:05,018
book
long, I took up every
character I could.

956
00:49:05,018 --> 00:49:06,930
I just don't think
that's
effective.

957
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,400
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I think, to

your point, make them scannable

958
00:49:11,610 --> 00:49:13,832
for people, right?
Like, that's
really why the

959
00:49:13,832 --> 00:49:16,755
short and sweet I think works
well is you want
them to be

960
00:49:16,755 --> 00:49:19,960
able to see the title and not
have to sit there and
strain

961
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,638
and think about it, right?
You just want them to be
able

962
00:49:22,638 --> 00:49:25,362
to quickly see it and know
exactly what the episode is


963
00:49:25,370 --> 00:49:27,210
about.
I think that is really

964
00:49:27,210 --> 00:49:29,065
important.
Yeah, thank you.


965
00:49:29,073 --> 00:49:32,934
Ralph, any other thoughts, what
else is important to you in the

966
00:49:32,934 --> 00:49:34,644
title?
We know some things that aren't

967
00:49:34,644 --> 00:49:37,327
important to you.
Some
people saying episode

968
00:49:37,327 --> 00:49:40,140
numbers, no, thank you.
They don't want
that in there.

969
00:49:40,140 --> 00:49:42,520
What else?
What's an example of a title

970
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,678
that makes
you stop?
Or maybe what's you know, Ralph,

971
00:49:45,678 --> 00:49:48,570
you shared your
title.
Let's hear some people, some

972
00:49:48,570 --> 00:49:49,830
people's titles.
Ralph Estep Jr.: Let me throw


973
00:49:49,838 --> 00:49:51,940
one more thing in there about
titles while we're here.

974
00:49:51,940 --> 00:49:56,002
If you
say something in your
title, make sure your episode

975
00:49:56,002 --> 00:49:59,536
addresses
that, because one of
my big pet peeves is.

976
00:49:59,536 --> 00:50:01,975
People that put a
title out
there, and the episode has

977
00:50:01,975 --> 00:50:05,186
nothing to do with the
title.
So you're making a promise to

978
00:50:05,186 --> 00:50:07,446
your audience.
When
you put a title out

979
00:50:07,446 --> 00:50:10,755
there, you better dog gone make
sure that
that episode speaks

980
00:50:10,755 --> 00:50:13,630
to the title you put there,
because that's
the difference

981
00:50:13,630 --> 00:50:17,150
between click bait and real you
know, Daniel J
Lewis did a

982
00:50:17,150 --> 00:50:20,898
show on his show the all this
audacity to podcast
this week,

983
00:50:20,898 --> 00:50:23,706
you're building trust with your
audience, and while
we're

984
00:50:23,706 --> 00:50:27,018
talking about titles, make sure
your title is what you're


985
00:50:27,026 --> 00:50:29,770
actually talking about.
Don't just put a title out there

986
00:50:29,770 --> 00:50:31,865
to
get somebody's attention
and then they'll talk about it.

987
00:50:31,865 --> 00:50:34,135
So I
didn't mean to sidetrack
you there, Mark, but it just

988
00:50:34,135 --> 00:50:36,330
came to
mind as like that is
super important while we're

989
00:50:36,330 --> 00:50:38,970
talking
about titles as well.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I think


990
00:50:38,978 --> 00:50:41,480
that's great.
And yeah, I think maybe the best

991
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,940
place to wrap up,
unless
anyone wants to chime in

992
00:50:44,940 --> 00:50:48,002
anywhere else.
I wanted to share
at least

993
00:50:48,002 --> 00:50:51,685
some of my takeaways here from
this discussion today.


994
00:50:51,693 --> 00:50:55,638
I think that your title should
just be considered, just like a

995
00:50:55,638 --> 00:50:57,354
book cover.
It's like a first impression.

996
00:50:57,354 --> 00:50:59,478
It's what earns you
the
clicks.

997
00:50:59,478 --> 00:51:02,402
It's what gets people to stop
and think about
if they're

998
00:51:02,402 --> 00:51:06,438
going to press play.
But your content is what earns


999
00:51:06,446 --> 00:51:10,248
you the listener, right?
You get the listener initially

1000
00:51:10,248 --> 00:51:12,264
they come
through your doors,
right?

1001
00:51:12,264 --> 00:51:14,828
But then once they come through
the
doors, there's got to be

1002
00:51:14,828 --> 00:51:17,274
stuff that they want to buy in
that
store, right?

1003
00:51:17,274 --> 00:51:20,811
So if the title isn't clear and
compelling,
people never hear

1004
00:51:20,811 --> 00:51:24,300
your work in the first place,
and if your
content doesn't

1005
00:51:24,300 --> 00:51:27,300
deliver, they don't come back.
So the goal
isn't to pick one

1006
00:51:27,300 --> 00:51:30,885
over the other, it's really to
make sure
that they're working

1007
00:51:30,885 --> 00:51:32,900
together.
So I encourage you to think


1008
00:51:32,908 --> 00:51:34,410
about that when you're doing
your titles.

1009
00:51:34,410 --> 00:51:36,510
And yes, Sid, did
you want to
respond to that?

1010
00:51:37,110 --> 00:51:39,320
Sid Meadows: I did.
That's a
title for a

1011
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:43,380
conversation for another room.
Mark, how to
convert listeners

1012
00:51:43,380 --> 00:51:46,728
to followers?
Yes, Apple shows you how many


1013
00:51:46,736 --> 00:51:50,002
listeners you have and how many
followers followers you have.

1014
00:51:50,002 --> 00:51:53,840
So
how do you convert them?
How do you get them to click

1015
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,742
that plus
button so they get
notified every time you drop an

1016
00:51:56,742 --> 00:51:58,050
episode.

That's a conversation we should

1017
00:51:58,050 --> 00:51:59,850
have one day.
Marc Ronick: I love it.

1018
00:51:59,850 --> 00:52:01,385
We will
absolutely have that
conversation.

1019
00:52:01,385 --> 00:52:05,208
Thank you, Sid,
yes, John,
John: I just want to know what


1020
00:52:05,216 --> 00:52:06,540
the title of this episode will
be.

1021
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,820
Marc Ronick: Me too.
I'm
curious.

1022
00:52:08,820 --> 00:52:12,640
We will see once I run it
through my title generator.


1023
00:52:12,648 --> 00:52:15,906
But yeah, well, right.
So to be continued, thank you,

1024
00:52:15,906 --> 00:52:19,446
John,
thank you, Sid, and
thanks to all of you for a great

1025
00:52:19,446 --> 00:52:21,710

conversation today.
This was a fun one, and we are

1026
00:52:21,710 --> 00:52:25,140
back
tomorrow, and by the way,
tomorrow, it's a double header


1027
00:52:25,148 --> 00:52:28,128
for yours truly.
Tomorrow, yes, we will be back

1028
00:52:28,128 --> 00:52:30,390
here 7am
Eastern, talking all
things podcasting news.

1029
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:34,285
So stay in the
know and come
join us to hear all the

1030
00:52:34,285 --> 00:52:36,525
headlines and our
opinions
about those headlines.

1031
00:52:36,525 --> 00:52:41,025
But at 1pm Eastern, we are going

live with the Empowered

1032
00:52:41,025 --> 00:52:45,116
podcasting live stream show that

we do every other Wednesday

1033
00:52:45,116 --> 00:52:48,765
that happens again. 1pm Eastern,
you
can get all the

1034
00:52:48,765 --> 00:52:51,961
information about tomorrow's
discussion over
at podcasting

1035
00:52:51,961 --> 00:52:55,434
morning chat, Comm, slash, EPC,
live.


1036
00:52:55,442 --> 00:52:57,700
Empowered podcasting conference,
live.

1037
00:52:57,700 --> 00:52:59,870
EPC live.
Come check us
out there.

1038
00:52:59,870 --> 00:53:01,950
And Ralph, did you want to add
something?

1039
00:53:01,950 --> 00:53:04,230
Ralph Estep Jr.: No, I was just
going to remind you to talk

1040
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:05,412
about that.
Marc Ronick: Yeah.

1041
00:53:05,412 --> 00:53:07,045
Well, thank
you.
Appreciate that, Mr. Producer,

1042
00:53:07,045 --> 00:53:09,882
and we are again back

tomorrow, 7am Eastern.

1043
00:53:09,882 --> 00:53:13,422
So come join us over at
podcasting,
morning chat, comm

1044
00:53:13,422 --> 00:53:16,375
slash, join us.
And I know I've given you a


1045
00:53:16,383 --> 00:53:19,455
bazillion links, so check our
show notes, and you can find


1046
00:53:19,463 --> 00:53:22,233
every link you need there.
So until tomorrow, D.R.

1047
00:53:22,233 --> 00:53:25,553
Fay: more than one CTA,
what?
Marc Ronick: Yes, I know I broke

1048
00:53:25,553 --> 00:53:27,075

the rule.
I broke the rule.

1049
00:53:27,675 --> 00:53:31,035
Until tomorrow.
Make it a great
day.

1050
00:53:31,035 --> 00:53:32,475
Everybody.
Take care.

1051
00:53:32,475 --> 00:53:32,955
Bye.