504. 5 Storytelling Tricks That Make 'The Daily' So Addictive

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Good morning podcasters, today
is Monday, April 27th, 2026 and

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today obsession worthy Podcasts
returns as we breakdown how the

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daily goes from Tilly Norwood to
Disney to make Holly's a

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Hollywood's AI story clear,
human and a must listen.

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So if you're listening live on
Clubhouse, hit the share button,

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bottom, top, right hand, side of
the screen and share it.

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However, Clubhouse lets you.
And if you're catching us via

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podcast, YouTube, etcetera,
please share this with a fellow

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podcaster.
And now give us about 30 seconds

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and we'll get things rolling.
Thanks for being here.

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Good morning again podcasting

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Morning chat.
Thank you so much for being

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here.
I am your host Mark Ronick and

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currently on stage with me.
My Co hosts we have Nick

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Naulback, Dr. Faye, Jonathan
Howard, Sid Meadows, Ralph Estep

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and Alex Baelish.
Also, we have from the audience

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Tide, AKA Nikki joining us, per
usual.

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Love having you join us.
Everybody is welcome to join us

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live here on Clubhouse on the
virtual stage if you choose,

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Just raise your hand and we will
bring you on up.

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And a reminder that really
anybody can at any time ask a

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podcasting question, even if
it's not related to what we're

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talking about.
That's totally cool.

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If you're here live with us and
you have a question about your

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podcast, you want some feedback,
some some insight, we are happy

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to do that for you.
Mark, I got a question before we

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start the show.
Sure, sure.

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I got a question.
So what happens when you're

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doing a video podcast and the
second you go live, your nose

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starts to itch?
You scratch it, you scratch

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myself, man.
I've caught myself doing that

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lately out, you know, watching
myself back on the video and I'm

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doing a little editing here and
there.

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And I watch myself just kind of
like rubbing my nose and not

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even realizing that I'm doing it
on camera.

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And it looks a little silly, to
be honest.

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Well, thank you.
It just hit me all of a sudden

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there.
I thought I was going to have to

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like dive out of the video or
something.

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Man, it's brutal this morning.
The allergies are starting here,

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I think in Delaware.
Yeah.

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Well, you should see out here in
western North Carolina, the

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thick pollen all over the place.
I mean, it is crazy.

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I actually, because I haven't
turned on our water yet outside.

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We're we're doing that actually
this week.

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I think the weather, it's
finally safe to do that, but So

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what I had to do instead was I
took a leaf blower and just blew

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my whole deck off and just watch
layers upon layers of pollen

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just blow off.
It's insane how much pollen we

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get here in Western North
Carolina.

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Before we keep going here, I do
want to remind you that if you

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are a live listener or curious
and want to join us live, maybe

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7:00 AM Eastern hasn't been the
best time for you.

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Well, maybe then we've fixed
that as of May the 4th, May the

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Fourth be with you.
We are going to start the

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podcasting morning chat an hour
later than we normally did.

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So instead of 787 AM Eastern,
we're going to start at 8:00 AM

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Eastern a week from today.
We think that this is going to

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provide us with more guest
opportunities because 7:00 AM

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tends to be a little too early
for most guests.

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And we also think that doing it
a little later is going to

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potentially be better for our
discoverability.

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So that's what we're going to do
Monday, May the fourth.

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Come join us at 8:00 AM Eastern
everywhere and you can find us.

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Find out how you can do that
everywhere at Podcasting Morning

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chat.com/join us.
Last thing I want to do, and

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this is maybe appropriately so,
I want to do a little bit of AI

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talk here just for a moment
because Nick hipped me to this

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this morning, or actually it was
last night, but I didn't hear it

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till this morning.
Nick was playing with Gemini.

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And I know, Ralph, how much you
love Suno and I think Suno has a

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little competition now.
Now Nick Gemini's been offering

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a music creation feature for a
while now, but I guess they've

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upped the game.
Is that right?

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Is that fair to say?
Hey, good morning, everybody.

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Good morning.
Yeah, so Google's been, they

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have all kinds of different AI
tools that they're kind of

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experimenting with and playing
with.

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And this music generation tool,
it's actually a model called

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Lyria or I think it's Lyria, I
don't know if I'm pronouncing

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right.
They probably a few months ago

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now added Lyria into Gemini
directly.

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So if you have the Gemini app,
you can click the button similar

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to like create an image and you
can create a music, create

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music, sound bite or whatever.
And when they initially released

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it, it was, I'll say it was 8
seconds or 20 seconds.

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And that's all that they would
give you.

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And more recently, I'd say
probably within the last couple

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of weeks here, they've upgraded
that and now allow you to

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generate complete songs directly
inside of Gemini.

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And what's kind of cool about it
is when you click on the the

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create music button is it gives
you like a bunch of preset

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styles.
So the one that I chose that

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Mark is about to play here, like
I saw 90s rap and I immediately

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clicked that one.
He's like those immediately

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where I gravitated towards.
So it's kind of nice because you

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can select the presets or if you
don't want to use one of the

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presets, you can just explain to
AI what you want.

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But I was really curious how it
was going to turn out and I

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thought it was pretty darn
impressive.

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All right, so I will share this
clip that Nick put together with

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Gemini.
It's a it's basically the prompt

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was to create this 90s style
rap, create it for about a

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podcast about podcasting.
So we'll play a little bit of it

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because I think it's a little
bit of a longer song, but let's

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hear how it sounds.
Observe the signal.

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Peek at the threshold of the
booth.

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Observe the signal.
Yeah, I did kind of have that

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feel to it.
Well, I wanted to play with it

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because, as you know, if you're
a regular listener here, you

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know, we've been playing a lot
with Suno.

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Well, Ralph has really, as far
as little jingles, little things

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that go on regularly on this
show that we've decided to make

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live music out of it.
And I wanted to try to do the

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same.
Now I again, just like Suno,

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It's hard to tell Gemini to make
something short and sweet.

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It likes to make if it's
creating music, it likes to make

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much longer versions than what
we're what we'd prefer.

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With that said, I will play a
piece of this.

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Now, I just told Gemini to make
a Jingle, a radio style Jingle

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about the podcasting morning
show.

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Because by the way, that's
another thing that's happening

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on Monday is we're changing the
name from podcasting morning

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chat to podcasting morning show.
So I was just getting ahead of

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it and here's what Gemini came
up with.

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The sun is up.
The coffee's brewing got that.

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Good.
Vibe.

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Feeling.
The podcasting morning show.

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Yeah, the podcasting morning
show.

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Get your day started.
Get your day started.

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It has that Blink 182 kind of
feel to it, I feel like.

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And then here's another one.
I tried to tell it to go a

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little more 80s.
It's more like a theme song than

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a Jingle.
Yeah, the podcasting morning

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show.
There it goes.

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There it is, the podcasting
morning show theme.

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Don't think I'm going to adopt
that one BC Did you have more to

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say?
Yeah.

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I got to ask, did you say that
you fed the lyrics itself or did

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it?
No, they're just the same lyrics

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that came up with by itself.
It came up with the same lyrics

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by itself.
Yeah.

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Now I thought it sound.
But overall, just the quality of

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the music, the way that it
sounded, it felt a little more

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natural.
Didn't sound quite as AI to me

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as Suno.
Ralph.

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Your thoughts as a rabid Suno
user?

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Not bad.
Not bad.

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Now, I've got a few of them,
too, if you want to share them

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in another day.
I've got some.

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Great.
I got some screaming at the

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beginning of rap, screams at the
beginning.

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So if we want to play some of
those down the road, we have to

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do that.
But not bad.

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I'm impressed.
All right?

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Not, not, not bad.
Very cool.

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All right, well, let's shift
some gears here.

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Now see, I was going to hit the
wrong button, but now I'm very

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afraid to hit the wrong button
because Speaking of jingles, I

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don't want the wrong button
Jingle played on me.

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So there's the right button I'm
wanted to actually play for you.

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Let's get into today's obsession
worthy podcast.

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It's back the series that we do
every other Monday, and Jonathan

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is taking us into an episode of
The Daily about Hollywood's AI

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moment, which I believe is the
name of the actual episode.

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What I like about this one is
that we're not just talking

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about AI.
We're looking at how a show

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takes a massive, complicated
topic and makes it feel clear.

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It makes it feel human and easy
to follow.

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So as we go through this, I want
us to keep asking ourselves, how

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can we do this on our own shows?
Even if we're not making a big

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narrative news podcast, how can
we take some of this stuff that

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that makes this show so
obsession worthy and alley it to

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our own podcast.
O with that, Jonathan, take it

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away.
Yes, All right.

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So yeah, obviously AI is
touching every aspect of our

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lives, so it makes sense that it
would be doing the same in

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Hollywood.
So we're going to take a look at

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that.
And really what we're looking at

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is that Hollywood's facing a
turning point.

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AI is no longer theoretical.
It's actually happening.

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And it's starting to change how
movies, writing, creative work,

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all of that is actually made.
It actually impacted the Oscars

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this year.
And the real story is not only

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the technology is what's
happening to the entire

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industry.
As you know, we're all kind of

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being forced to rethink the
future.

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So the host and I'm always, I
always mess up his last name.

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But Michael Barbero opens every
episode really simply with

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what's happening right now, why
this moment matters and who's

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going to help us understand it.
That is his intro.

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There's no performance.
It's just here's the thing that

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we're going to figure out and
understand today.

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So it's a very clear and
repeatable intro.

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So what it does, it signals
relevance, creates the curiosity

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gap because you're going to
learn about what you're going to

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learn about and it sets the
expectations for the show.

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It's clean, repeatable, and
always recognize.

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And that's a really key part of
the framework that sets this

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podcast apart and makes it
obsession worthy.

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Yeah.
All right.

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Yeah, go ahead.
No, I agree.

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And I mean, I know we're going
to get into the intro here and I

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think what they do with the
intro felt a lot more doable is

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the best word I can use as far
as if we're applying stuff that

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we can learn from popular
podcast.

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It's not like a diary of this of
Aceo kind of intro where it's

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very flashy, very fast-paced,
but it's still locked me in.

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It still grabbed my attention
right away and there were a lot

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of good reason for it, so I
won't dig in too deep until we

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play it and then we can talk
about it.

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Yeah.
And it what it does is it it

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gives us a real world example
that explains the bigger issue

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and that's really key.
So we're going to hear about

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Particle 6, which is Auk Company
billing itself as the world's

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leading AI production studio
and.

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You want me to play that now?
Go ahead.

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Yep.
All right, here we go.

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This is the daily on Sunday.
We all knew TV was dead, but

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thought why not squeeze in one
last development meeting we had?

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This is a video, a kind of
comedy sketch, produced by a

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company in the United Kingdom
called Particle 6.

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Now Particle 6 bills itself as
the world's leading AI

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production commissioner said no
AI generated 100 better ideas in

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minutes, perfectly aligned to
channel data, viewing figures

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and optimized for the audience.
So everything in this video, the

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voices you're hearing, the words
that they're saying, all of it

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was generated by artificial
intelligence.

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And the star of this video who
did it is.

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Tilly Norwood, 100.
Tilly Norwood, an AI generated

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00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,000
actress.
Like if a Sunday roast went to

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drama school and got BAFTA
optimized.

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00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:19,840
But can she cry on Graham
Norton?

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00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,000
Yeah, so we open up and, you
know, before we get into a full

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00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,800
analysis, we're given something
really specific to react to.

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00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,800
And that matters because AI in
Hollywood is huge and hard to

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00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,840
understand.
But an AI actress, that's

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00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,520
something that's instantly
understandable.

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00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,680
You get what's happening when
you hear about an AI actress.

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But this opening does 3 really
important things really fast.

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And I think it's important to
look at those things because if

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we can do these things in the
opening of our podcast, we'll be

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00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,080
able to really capture people
and get them hooked into what

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00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,480
we're what we want to talk
about.

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I know, Jonathan, that you have
your specific three things, and

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I'm curious if other people are
open to sharing.

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00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,880
Like, what is it about the intro
that maybe you found that it

251
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,280
hooked you?
What were some reasons why this

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00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:17,680
intro actually hooked you into
this episode of The Daily?

253
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,480
Yeah, Brandon, go ahead.
It's OK.

254
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:25,760
I was going to say, like, what
kind of really hooked me

255
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:32,480
unexpectedly was that it wasn't
a generic UK accent that they

256
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,080
gave to this AI star of the
show.

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This was a very specific
regional accent that for me, if

258
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I wasn't told moments before
this was an AI generated star of

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00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,240
the show, I would have thought
was a real person.

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This they have a similar accent
to the woman who does the

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00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,120
Bridgeton podcast, a very
specific regional accent.

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00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,440
And I just found that so cool.
But also kind of like, ah, if I

263
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,200
didn't know and I just kind of
fell into this and I didn't

264
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,920
realize a long time after, how
would I feel if I then realized

265
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this person wasn't real?
Yeah, but I thought it was very,

266
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,280
very effective overall, to be
sure.

267
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:17,480
Yeah.
I mean, it's that I think that's

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some of what Jonathan was saying
here at the top, is that it, it

269
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really makes it relatable for
us.

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It makes us understand right
away what the problem might be.

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When we can hear how real that
this AI actor sounds, you know,

272
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,680
we can instantly relate to the
frustration that Hollywood has

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00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,960
around this type of actor, if
you will.

274
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,840
I also personally, Jonathan, I
liked I'm even catching little

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00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,080
things like at the very
beginning when they say, you

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00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,680
know, this is the daily, the
that little musical intro that

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00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,360
they play, it's short, it's
sweet, it's really recognizable,

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00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,600
even though I don't I'm not a
daily listener, Full disclosure.

279
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,880
And I noticed that right away,
like having, you know, a lot of

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00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,920
times podcasters, I think make
the mistake of playing long,

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00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,920
drawn out music.
And I've been one of those

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00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,480
people to make that mistake.
And look at you could make the

283
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,160
argument that I'm still making
the mistake playing 30 seconds

284
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,400
of music and I'm doing it
because it's a live show too,

285
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,040
and we need those 30 seconds to
get ourselves together.

286
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,839
But my point is that sometimes
just having something really

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00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:28,319
short and sweet, you know, think
about the TV networks, how they

288
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:32,680
all have just like these little
quick musical jingles, if you

289
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,320
will.
NBC has their music.

290
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,280
I think it's, you know, it's
something like that, right?

291
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,240
It's something that you can
really grab onto and remember

292
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,640
and those little things really
help create loyalty among your

293
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,880
audience because they start
looking and listening for those

294
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,440
types of things.
It reminds me also of Smartlist.

295
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,920
Smartlist has a similar same
type of music too, and it's very

296
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,480
short and sweet and it's kind of
catchy too.

297
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,520
So I just wanted to call that
out as something that I think is

298
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,840
really valuable to include with
your podcast.

299
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:11,320
And I also loved Jonathan, the
way that they incorporated clips

300
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,680
throughout the intro to give us
context.

301
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,760
It's not just somebody spoon
feeding us the story.

302
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,480
They're actually giving us
context, giving us something

303
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:25,240
that we can grab onto and
identify with to really help set

304
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,240
the stage.
So those are two big things for

305
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,200
me.
And to comment on what BC said

306
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,880
about if you didn't know it was
AI being almost upset about it

307
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,240
really truly highlights the
point of this episode, which

308
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,760
there's a lot of things that are
happening that do we even know,

309
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,280
you know, like people's accents
are being changed, all those

310
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:46,880
things.
And how does it make you feel

311
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,720
about it?
And just by what BC said, I

312
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,000
think that was purposeful in the
fact that they did that.

313
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,560
They made it very specific
because would you know and would

314
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,800
you be upset about it?
So, so one of the things that

315
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,440
this does, one of the three is
it really gives you an

316
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,280
explanation, an example before
an explanation.

317
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,400
We're not starting, and I talked
about this with one of the

318
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,080
previous podcast.
It's not a lecture about AI.

319
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,480
That's not what's going to get
people interested.

320
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,000
It's giving them a really weird,
specific, slightly uncomfortable

321
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,360
thing that's happening in the
world that we're talking about.

322
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,440
And it's a very clear, easy to
understand example.

323
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,560
Specificity is always going to
win.

324
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,040
People latch on to that specific
thing.

325
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,320
It creates emotional contrast
because it's kind of a funny

326
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,120
clip.
It's, you know, TV's dead, but

327
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:38,360
we figured we'd do one more
thing.

328
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:40,520
You know, here's this thing that
we're going to do.

329
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,560
But the implication is actually
really serious.

330
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,600
If AI is generating the voices,
the words, the actress, the

331
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,000
performances, the pitch, what
happens to the people that used

332
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,760
to do that?
And that's immediately visible

333
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,640
in writing that first clip in
that first, I think it was 40

334
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,200
seconds.
So that's two and three.

335
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,920
It gives the listener an anchor
object, something that they can

336
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,680
relate back to.
So Tilly Norwood becomes a thing

337
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,520
we can hold on to.
AI in Hollywood is vague, but an

338
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,240
AI actress named Tilly Norwood
is concrete.

339
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,440
And that the more specific that
you are, the stronger things are

340
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,600
going to hook people.
But it gives them a human

341
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,960
connection as well.
And that even though not human.

342
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,880
Gives a human connection and
that's what people are going to

343
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,320
latch onto.
Yeah, absolutely.

344
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,200
I think that's so key, having
that anchor, like you said, I

345
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,880
think giving people something
that they can anchor to

346
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,200
throughout the episode, it
really does change the

347
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,560
experience of the episode
because yeah, you're kind of,

348
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,320
you've got that now in the back
of your mind as you're listening

349
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,240
to it.
I'm one of the things jumping

350
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,840
ahead that I appreciated about
the show is that, like you said,

351
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,840
Jonathan, and they teased it in
the intro, the way that it

352
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,000
really effects Hollywood down to
a very deep level that I

353
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,360
sometimes wouldn't have even
thought about until hearing

354
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:04,480
this.
So again, yeah, having that

355
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:09,120
anchor to to kind of relate to
when you're going through this

356
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:14,040
story, I think really adds a lot
of context to the to the show.

357
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,120
BC wanted to chime in.
Go ahead.

358
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:17,840
BC yeah.
For example, when we talk about

359
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,800
how deep it is, I kind of when
I'm sitting here and ask myself,

360
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,880
what brings me to the point of
would I be mad if I didn't know

361
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,160
and we talked about the name
Tilly Norwood.

362
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,640
I found myself asking, oh, if I
didn't know this was an AI

363
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,400
person, I would have asked
myself, oh, is that a stage

364
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,480
name?
Is that a real name?

365
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,880
And then I realized when we hear
someone's name, we immediately

366
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,120
that indicates to us this person
has had a life, they have a

367
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:49,040
past, they have an experience
before them prior to this point.

368
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,000
But now with that given
revelation, it's like, oh,

369
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,440
that's not there.
This is not a person.

370
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,640
They don't actually exist.
So it's almost like we it kind

371
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:05,040
of conflicts with our own human
programming to give a non

372
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:10,000
existent a name because we have
a bunch of, like I said,

373
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:15,240
programmed ways of perceiving
what certain elements of

374
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,520
identity inherently give us.
So I think that's part of the

375
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,440
struggle for me anyway,
regarding, you know, what's my

376
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,640
personal emotional take away is
from this particular kind of

377
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,560
experiment.
And I think that's the beauty of

378
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,280
this intro is that it brings us
into our own experience, our own

379
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,160
perspectives by just telling the
story.

380
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,000
Like, you're going to receive
this, that intro differently

381
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,400
than I'm going to receive it.
And I whatever that does, it

382
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,840
doesn't matter, right?
What what matters is that it's

383
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,880
got us emotionally invested into
the episode.

384
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,800
Go ahead, Jonathan.
Yeah, no, but I want to push

385
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,960
back a little bit on BC because
now she has a history, a story

386
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,560
and a past.
She's got those things now.

387
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,000
Meaning that she's been
programmed to have those things.

388
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,640
Well, no, I mean, she is now
part of our thoughts.

389
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,520
She's part of something that
really happened, so.

390
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,440
Right.
Interesting.

391
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,160
Just pushing back a little bit.
AI is a little crazy.

392
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,400
I don't like it.
I think Ralph, did you have?

393
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,040
Oh, yeah, go ahead.
And I'm going to.

394
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,280
I'm going to be, I'm going to be
the odd one in the room.

395
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,480
Does it matter?
Because actors and actresses by

396
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,680
their very nature are playing a
character.

397
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,360
So for me, this didn't connect
with me at all.

398
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:37,720
I could care less, you know, I
feel bad for the actors and

399
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,520
actresses who are going to lose
work.

400
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,520
But if I'm trying to get
entertained, these people are

401
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,960
playing a role anyway, so who
the hell cares?

402
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:47,760
That's just my personal take.
It is.

403
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,280
It did.
This episode didn't connect with

404
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,920
me from the very beginning.
And I don't know why, but it

405
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,760
just did not make me think much
because I thought, yeah, OK,

406
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,640
great.
Everybody who's an actor and

407
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,480
actress is playing a role.
They're playing pretend.

408
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,840
Like when I was a kid, we used
to play pretend.

409
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,280
That's what this is.
So these these inroads and AI,

410
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,240
the only purple this is hurting
is the actors and actresses.

411
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,200
And I do have empathy for them.
But if the goal is

412
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,400
entertainment, who cares?
Interesting, Ralph.

413
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,280
And to a point I agree with you.
I also though, think about some

414
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,400
of the most famous, the most
popular entertainers that are

415
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,960
out there.
And I think what makes them even

416
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:31,560
more attractive, more likable,
more charismatic is, is that we

417
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,520
learn who they are.
We think we do, we learn who

418
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,000
they are off screen, right?
That's the purpose of things

419
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,000
like going on The Tonight Show
or one of these late night talk

420
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,880
shows or going on a Saturday
Night Live or, or appearing on

421
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,840
different podcasts, right?
We're learning about the person

422
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,960
behind it.
And this is not the case.

423
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,480
Let's just say that.
Right.

424
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,440
Can you do you understand where
I'm going with that?

425
00:24:58,120 --> 00:24:59,320
I do.
I totally get it.

426
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,880
But I would push back a little
bit and say, but you learn what

427
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,000
they want you to learn.
They still are living in their

428
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,240
their persona.
Their publicist is telling them

429
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,720
here's who you knew need to be.
I just don't see that.

430
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,080
Again, like, I may be the odd
person out here.

431
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,240
I just don't see the outreach
here, to be blunt.

432
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:16,760
Yeah.
OK, That's fair.

433
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,680
Like to each their own.
And I'm sure you're not the only

434
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,760
one that feels that way.
Yeah.

435
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,200
All right.
Well, let's keep digging in.

436
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,680
Go ahead, Jonathan.
All right, so the last thing

437
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,160
that I just wanted to mention is
that this in and of itself, this

438
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,480
first little clip, is the
curiosity gap.

439
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,800
The listeners not just asking
what is AI doing in Hollywood

440
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,560
now?
They're asking, is this a

441
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,320
gimmick or is this the future?
Is this where we're going with

442
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,880
things?
Or is this just a passing phase?

443
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:46,120
And that's why the Daily is so
good at what it does.

444
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:49,320
It's not just dumping
information, it's giving you

445
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,600
context and it makes it.
It makes you care by giving a

446
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,440
specific example that makes the
issue actually impossible to

447
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,080
ignore.
So let's set up clip 2, which

448
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,320
clip one introduces Tilly
Norwood, the I generated actress

449
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,640
that you know Ralph does not
care about.

450
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,200
But clip 2 brings us back to
real people, and this clip

451
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,160
reminds us that Hollywood is not
just celebrities, red carpet,

452
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,840
studio heads and Oscar speeches.
There's a lot more people that

453
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,480
are working in Hollywood that
are doing normal jobs.

454
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,160
So here we go.
So, you know, one thing that is

455
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,040
true about Hollywood that a lot
of people don't think about is

456
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,880
that the vast majority of people
who work in Hollywood are, you

457
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,800
know, middle class or below.
They're just making a kind of a

458
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,720
normal living working in parts
of the industry that, you know,

459
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,920
they're doing the visual effects
that you see, they're background

460
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,880
actors.
They're doing commercials.

461
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,800
They're, you know, that's how
they're making a living.

462
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,760
That's how they're getting their
union cards so they can have

463
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,840
healthcare.
What happens with something like

464
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,960
AI is that, you know, the studio
executives see it and see that

465
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,680
this is a way to cut some of
that labor out and save money.

466
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,480
But for the people who perform
that labor, the jobs go away.

467
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,840
And that also means that the
funnel into the industry goes

468
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,840
away.
So there's any number of people

469
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,120
who you have heard of who came
up through the industry through

470
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:17,880
those routes.
But, you know, now those routes

471
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,880
get cut off.
You're saying Leonardo DiCaprio

472
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,960
was once a background actor?
Well, I don't know if Leo was,

473
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,160
but I read recently that, you
know, half of the Screen Actors

474
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,200
Guild members have done
background work in their, you

475
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,040
know, in their career.
So those kinds of jobs start to

476
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,800
go away, and that means that
there's fewer and fewer ways for

477
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,800
people to come into the
industry, which means that you

478
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,640
just have fewer and fewer
interesting voices getting

479
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,440
involved in the industry.
I thought I cut that one a

480
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,240
little bit shorter, but AI feels
abstract in general.

481
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,120
Like when is people talking
about a shiny tool or the scary

482
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:56,480
robot future, it's abstract.
But what this section, what this

483
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,240
clip does is it makes it real.
This is what happens when these

484
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,280
jobs go away.
There's less interesting people

485
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,880
in Hollywood, and I think to
kind of bring it back to what

486
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,160
Ralph was saying early on, it
means that we're just going to

487
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,480
have the average of what's out
there.

488
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,440
If we allow AI to take over,
there will be no new new ideas.

489
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:21,040
There will be no unique versions
of things because humans are the

490
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,920
ones that think about things a
little bit differently.

491
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,640
AI is giving you an average
pretty much of what's out there.

492
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,360
It's an interesting concept to
look at because if there's fewer

493
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:33,760
people, what are we going to,
what are we going to do with

494
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,040
that?
I'm going to quickly stop here

495
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,320
because I wanted to mention the
other thing that's really

496
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,880
interesting about this.
The show is the host is just a

497
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,520
guy and he has experts that are
there that he's talking to and

498
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,440
bouncing questions off of.
And it makes it much more

499
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,720
interactive.
So the 26 minutes goes by fast

500
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,840
because it's, it's a real
conversation.

501
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,200
It's not just a, you know,
here's what I'm doing, here's

502
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,080
what's happening, and it kind of
the timeline of it.

503
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,160
It's a real conversation, so.
By the way, we've got we've got

504
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,000
in the chat here, John.
John says that he's going to

505
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,920
have to come back and listen to
the replay of this episode

506
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,400
because now he can't stop
playing with the Gemini Music

507
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,360
generator.
He said it's fun to play with

508
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,160
it.
It kind of distracted me this

509
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,840
morning preparing for today's
show.

510
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,360
I get it, John, and I promise
it'll still be there after this

511
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,120
show.
So you don't have to leave to go

512
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,240
play with it, I promise.
But that's up to you.

513
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,280
Go for it.
OK?

514
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,920
And Ralph, I think you had
something.

515
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,400
Yeah.
Cry me a river.

516
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,960
I'm so sad about this.
Oh, how terrible.

517
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,400
I bet all those people who drove
horse drawn carriages were so

518
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,520
upset when cars came out too,
weren't they?

519
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,760
I mean, give me a break.
Technology changes.

520
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,640
Listen, I am not a huge fan of
AI taking over.

521
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,280
Don't miss, don't misread what
I'm saying.

522
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,200
But we have to learn to adapt
people, the people who were

523
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,760
raising horses, the people are
driving horse drawn carriages.

524
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,680
Guess what?
They were displaced as well.

525
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,160
You have to adapt.
If the goal of Hollywood is to

526
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,680
provide entertainment, then it's
no different than CGI.

527
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,280
It's no different than the other
things that we see every day.

528
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,200
Cry me a river.
Give me a break, Ralph.

529
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,480
I don't think you're so they
just, they actually talked about

530
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,320
that, that it's very different
than CGI in the fact that CGI is

531
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,640
a tool that they're using to
enhance the experience, whereas

532
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,280
AI is creating the entire
experience.

533
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:30,200
And you all know, I love AI, but
I feel like you're you're way on

534
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,680
the other side of the fence
without considering some of

535
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,080
these nuances here, especially,
again, that I think part of the

536
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:42,000
appeal to Hollywood is that we
feel like we know who these

537
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,080
actors and actresses are and we
can't, if we know that they're

538
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,240
AI generated, we're never going
to really believe the fake

539
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,720
experiences that they're going
to share with us.

540
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,880
They can't.
Somebody said in the chat here

541
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,480
that we can't watch them on a
red carpet, right?

542
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,400
Not really In real life, we
can't, we can't interact with

543
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,560
them as real humans.
And I think that's the fear.

544
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,040
And by the way, the other fear
is the fact that yes, lots of

545
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,520
jobs get taken away and yes,
people are going to have to

546
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,280
adapt, but they don't have to
like it, right?

547
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,840
That's fair.
No, And I don't disagree with

548
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,600
that.
But you can also make the

549
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,760
argument that AI is enhancing
the experience.

550
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,160
Well, sure, I think it's in many
ways it is enhancing the

551
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,680
experience 100%.
I can't can't deny that.

552
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,400
But that's I think why this
particular issue here of

553
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:39,200
creating actual actors is, is
the fear is because it really,

554
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,400
it does more than enhance.
It's it's now taking it over

555
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,960
completely.
So it's very different.

556
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,320
I think, I don't know.
I need to respond to the

557
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,200
comments.
This is tea in my cup.

558
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,840
This is not a alcoholic drink.
And John, yes, in very in, in a

559
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,520
lot of ways, AI is taking over
for accountants, but it just, it

560
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,760
is what it is.
So we have to learn to pivot.

561
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,320
So you're going to so you feel
confident that you're going to

562
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,080
be able to pivot comfortably if
AI really starts taking over all

563
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,280
accountants?
Yes, absolutely.

564
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,400
Because the thing about AI, it's
only as good as those who

565
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,600
program it and those who are
programming it aren't as good as

566
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,880
I am, to be blunt.
OK, fair.

567
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,040
That's the argument for
Hollywood as well.

568
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,240
Yeah, yeah.
And that's a fair argument.

569
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,440
And I love that argument,
Jonathan, and I will.

570
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,560
I love that argument.
That is a great point.

571
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,440
OK, cool.
All right.

572
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,160
So, Jonathan, keep it going.
Sure BC of your.

573
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,120
Hand up.
Wait, hold on.

574
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,680
Janae wants to chime in.
Janae.

575
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,880
OK, y'all sleeping on the bus,
so my bad guys go ahead.

576
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,520
So I love this.
I love this topic and I love

577
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,520
what's happening with technology
and I like both sides of the

578
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,440
argument, right Yes, it's taking
jobs away yes, technology's

579
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,520
gonna do that.
And the beautiful part is, I

580
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,520
don't know if y'all know this,
but just recently Ben Affleck

581
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,040
created a software company that
replaces the backgrounds of your

582
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,560
actors.
Meaning you can, you still need

583
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:16,080
to or shoot your entire movie,
but it's an AI that can system

584
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,400
that can replace entire
environments of where your

585
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,600
actors are acting.
So if you have airplane,

586
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,640
airplane scene, if you have a
scene and this is completely

587
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,040
done with AI.
So what's that?

588
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,600
Doing AI actors is cool, but
what's he's promoting is that

589
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,280
you're still have control over
the actual production of what

590
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,360
you're filming.
The Dow, you can set your actors

591
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,760
into any scene.
And what I see happening is

592
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,800
because the technology and
access to cameras and lighting

593
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,680
that we have now, I think that's
going to enable these background

594
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,560
actors to create their own
movies, to create their own

595
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,400
films.
And that's where people should

596
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,120
start looking into, hey, I
already have this experience and

597
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,880
knowledge to do all of these
things.

598
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,000
How can I shoot my own film?
Because what Hollywood's trying

599
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,400
to do is they're trying to take
over the entire narrative so

600
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,800
they can tell the story just
like they want to.

601
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,120
And that's what's going to
happen.

602
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,679
Corporations have been doing
this for years, right?

603
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:21,520
So that's what's scary is
corporations are getting even

604
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,639
more control into what you get
to watch on TV.

605
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:28,440
So that I think that's a bigger
problem than the one that we're

606
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,880
trying to focus on.
Thanks speaking.

607
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,960
Thank you, Janae.
I appreciate that.

608
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,400
And you know, I told Jonathan
before this show started today

609
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,639
that I have no problem going
into the actual meat of this

610
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,480
show.
Normally obsession worthy

611
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,800
podcast, we try to just break
down the episode itself and why

612
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,159
it's so popular.
But I I had a feeling we were

613
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:52,520
going to want to have some
conversations around the actual

614
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,440
topic.
It's itself and I have no

615
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,160
problem with that.
So we will try to do this

616
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,480
delicate dance of both talking
about the episode and talking

617
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,840
about how and why it's so
obsession worthy.

618
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,680
We have John that's joined us on
stage as well.

619
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,760
And I know John has been arguing
with Ralph in the chat a little

620
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,040
bit about Ralph's opinion on
this whole thing.

621
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,880
So John, go for it.
I wouldn't say arguing, I'm just

622
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,840
saying debate.
And so we just kind of went

623
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,640
through the same thing about 10
years ago with assistance and

624
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:29,840
podcast editing when people
overseas started doing it for

625
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,200
1/4 of the price.
So as a podcast editor, I was

626
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,320
doing editing.
And then the first thing that

627
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,400
people would say was how much
does it cost to edit a podcast?

628
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,480
And I'm just going to say $50,
all right?

629
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,760
And they go, well, I can get it
done in the Philippines for

630
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,200
8:00.
And I'm like, by all means, go

631
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,400
get it done for 8:00.
Will they do the same thing?

632
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,360
I don't know.
But you know, I had to go and

633
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,760
compete with that, too.
So it it's kind of the same

634
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,640
thing now, except now they're
taking the jobs away from the

635
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,360
overseas assistance.
Kind of sort of.

636
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,480
Yeah.
Yeah, Exactly.

637
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,920
It's a good comparison.
I've often thought about that

638
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,040
comparison myself.
John, I'm with you there.

639
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,800
Interesting to think about.
Let's see here.

640
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,920
Does anyone else want to chime
in before we.

641
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,640
Yes, Dr. Go ahead.
Good morning.

642
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,640
Good morning.
So one of the things that is my

643
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:29,680
concern about AI is that humor
is largely based on sarcasm, and

644
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:37,320
AI does not get sarcasm at all.
So and humor's.

645
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,000
Big part of my life every single
solitary day.

646
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,640
And who knows, it might be just
around the corner the way that

647
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,600
it is advancing.
Who the hell knows?

648
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:54,040
But for now, it lacks humor, it
lacks sarcasm, and therefore it

649
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,240
will never replace, you know,
anything that we see.

650
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:03,280
Yeah, this could be a way that
people adapt, right?

651
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,440
Because as Ralph was saying
earlier, so this might give

652
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,640
comedians the job of programming
and working with AI to be

653
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,640
funnier, to understand sarcasm
or even just to write it in for

654
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,760
AI.
You know, having an actual human

655
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,240
comedian that could help.
You know, I used to do voice

656
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:28,120
overs a long time ago and when
AI was just coming on, there was

657
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,200
a big surge in the voice over
community that people saying

658
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,480
don't do it.
They're going to try and get you

659
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,520
to, you know, get samples of
your voice.

660
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:42,160
Don't do it before you apply for
that job.

661
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,520
That sounds so great.
Be careful because it could be

662
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,160
that they're trying to sample
your voice.

663
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,480
So don't do it.
And I'm hoping that Comedians

664
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:56,360
Comics will heed the same call.
Don't do it.

665
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,760
OK, there you go.
Don't do it.

666
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,320
Don't do it.
Just don't do it.

667
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,920
How's that?
Yeah, I was just going to say.

668
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,880
I was just going to say.
Sounds like a.

669
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,360
Nike thing.
Yes, All right, John, keep it

670
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:09,840
going.
Oh, actually, let's go to John

671
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,120
1st and then we'll go back to
Jonathan.

672
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,800
Go ahead, John.
So it's funny you say that they

673
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:21,160
are because I sometimes with a
client when I'm editing, if they

674
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,720
make a mistake and I know they
made a mistake and I'm like, now

675
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:29,360
I got to get a hold of them and
they've got to re say the line

676
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,120
over again or whatever.
I'll take their voice, go to 11

677
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,880
labs, throw it in there and then
type out what they were supposed

678
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,000
to say and then do that.
But I always say, hey, listen, I

679
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,760
did this, this isn't your voice,
this is AI.

680
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,320
And I put it here, is this OK or
do you want to re record it?

681
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,880
And every time they go, that's
fantastic.

682
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,320
Also scary because it does, it
takes them right out of it.

683
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,240
So it is kind of funny they do
that.

684
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:59,040
And Mark and I have done this
with one of the shows that I

685
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,560
work on, Mark's show for his
production company.

686
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,920
And I will tell you.
That when we did it was a case

687
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:11,960
of changing the words from.
Third season to 4th season and

688
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,800
we didn't want to bring her on
just to do a whole intro just

689
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,200
for that one for.
That one word.

690
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:23,840
Yeah, and he took it to 11 labs
and I got to say, it actually

691
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,760
turned out better than had the
real person done it.

692
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,280
Yeah, we did that on, I played
it for everybody on the

693
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,840
podcasting morning chat, and
I'll have to find out what

694
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,520
episode that is and I'll put it
in the show notes if I can find

695
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,720
it so that people can hear how
we used it.

696
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,120
That's going to be season 4,
episode 1.

697
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:46,400
Right, right.
All right.

698
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,000
Of of dementia discussions
podcast, right.

699
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,240
Yeah.
John the great.

700
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:54,120
I was going to say the great
thing about me is that I have a

701
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:58,640
horrible Delco South Jersey,
Philly accent and AI can't do

702
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,360
that yet.
So I'm still good.

703
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,800
Yeah.
Hilarious all right and Ralph

704
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:05,720
final word and then we're giving
it back to Jonathan.

705
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,280
I just want to say listen, my
production team uses this

706
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,360
everyday in descript because I
will flub words like a like like

707
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,720
a champ and they fix it and you
can't even tell because it is

708
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:18,640
the soulful sound of Ralph.
So listen, that ship is sailed,

709
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:19,840
my friends.
We're already there.

710
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,080
All right, Thank you, Ralph.
Jonathan, let's keep it moving.

711
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,360
I.
Refuse to do it.

712
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,640
All right, so clip one gave us
curiosity.

713
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,640
It gave us like, what is up with
this AI actress?

714
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,480
Clip 2 gave us the cost.
If this becomes normal, who's

715
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,280
getting pushed out?
And what keeps people?

716
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:37,880
That's what keeps people
listening.

717
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,600
It's really important to
understand that the information

718
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,840
alone is not enough.
Human consequences of reason to

719
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,760
care is what keeps people
listening to your podcast.

720
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,680
So we're going to jump into clip
3, which is where the story

721
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,560
actually gets even more
complicated because AI is not

722
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,000
just replacing people, it's
changing the work itself.

723
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,640
And the question starts to
become, if AI enhances a human

724
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,960
performance, does the audience
deserve to know?

725
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,640
And.
On the fictional side, does the

726
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,040
audience have the right to know
that AI was used to juice up a

727
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,680
performance?
Does the viewer have the right

728
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,360
to know that Adrian Brody's
accent in The Brutalist was

729
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,120
enhanced, right?
And does he then deserve the the

730
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,480
Academy Award, the Academy Award
you won best actor for that best

731
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,960
actor for most of his own acting
speaking this was this yes.

732
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,920
You know, this was a big
controversy in Hollywood last

733
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,520
year during Oscar season, in
fact, so much that the Academy

734
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,960
then clarified its rules and
said using AI in this sense does

735
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:47,800
not exclude a performance.
So this clip gives us Gray area,

736
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,680
Gray area that I don't
necessarily agree with in some

737
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,040
senses, but this, it's like this
is where the plot thickens.

738
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,400
Because if AI helped create the
final product, where does the

739
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,200
human contribution begin and
end?

740
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,360
Who gets credit for that?
So the audience is not just

741
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,400
thinking about the technology,
they're thinking about what's

742
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,280
fair, if they should know this,
if there should be transparency,

743
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,280
and what counts as a
performance.

744
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,400
What's interesting about this
clip is it's about halfway

745
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,600
through the podcast, and instead
of flattening out the story and

746
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,840
making it simple, it actually
complicates the story and

747
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,240
provides a whole other layer,
which we've talked about in

748
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:27,560
other podcasts.
It's more of building that

749
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,480
curiosity ladder that keeps
people interested in wanting to

750
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,000
get them to know what the answer
that next question is.

751
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:41,560
Yeah, it's basically extending
the episode without dragging the

752
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,480
episode.
You're not just sitting there

753
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,680
harping on one topic over and
over and over again.

754
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,280
You're like you said, Jonathan.
You're adding these layers to it

755
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,520
so that right when the audience
is starting to feel like there

756
00:42:54,520 --> 00:43:00,080
might be some closure to the
story, you've thrown in this new

757
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,720
layer that gets that makes you
lean in a little bit more,

758
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:04,840
right?
Yeah.

759
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,440
So I think that's an awesome
technique to that you pointed

760
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:08,560
out there.
Thank you, Jonathan.

761
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:10,880
Yeah.
And I mean, So what it's doing

762
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,240
is it's layering that complexity
one question at a time.

763
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,720
And that's the way to think
about it for your podcast, one

764
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:19,520
question at a time.
How can you add the next

765
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,400
question so the listener feels
like they're moving deeper into

766
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,560
understanding, not being buried
by all the information you want

767
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,840
to provide them?
Because the goal is to always

768
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,240
make the listener feel smarter.
Yeah, and it's not in what

769
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:34,840
they're doing.
They're not flattening the story

770
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,040
into AI is good or AI is bad,
right?

771
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,240
It's giving the listener another
layer to think about, and that

772
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:43,440
makes the episode feel more
valuable.

773
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:45,400
Yep.
Absolutely.

774
00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:49,840
And then clip 4 again, it brings
in a whole other layer and it

775
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,480
brings it to the business
reality because Disney is one of

776
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,440
the most protective companies
with their intellectual property

777
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,320
like in the world, and they made
this decision.

778
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,880
Do they fight this or do they
find a way to participate and

779
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:09,600
get paid and set the guardrails?
And while Sora is now defunct,

780
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:10,720
isn't it?
Yes.

781
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,320
So, yeah, So what Jonathan's
referring to here is we're going

782
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,440
to hear this clip, and it's
basically introducing this idea

783
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,960
that a few months ago, Sora,
owned by Open AI ChatGPT,

784
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:27,920
basically got married to Disney
and came up with this big deal

785
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,280
that would allow the use of
Disney licensed characters

786
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:36,680
within SUNO.
And since then, about a month or

787
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,920
so ago, SUNO was basically no
more.

788
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:41,960
Open AI decided to shut that
down.

789
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,360
And there has been no word about
what that means for that deal

790
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,680
with Disney.
So, yeah, in some ways this

791
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,880
episode's now a little outdated,
but it's still, it still raises

792
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,600
a lot of questions and eyebrows
that need to be addressed at

793
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,560
some point.
So sorry about that.

794
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,760
Johnson just wanted, it's
getting confusing.

795
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,400
There's Sora, there's Suno
there.

796
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,000
All these different names is
getting a little convoluted in

797
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,400
my name.
Well, that's our fault because

798
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,640
we introduced Suno at the top of
this, at the top of the show.

799
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,520
So yeah.
But Sora is the now defunct open

800
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,080
AI video generation tool.
OK.

801
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,320
You can hit that 4th clip.
Was the right direction?

802
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,560
Well, what does it tell you that
Disney, being as protective of

803
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,200
its intellectual property,
realized that this was the right

804
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,760
direction?
It tells you that they feel like

805
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,920
they have no choice.
You know, if you go on video,

806
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:39,840
which is Google's AI video
generator, you can create a clip

807
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,080
using a Disney character.
I did it yesterday.

808
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,440
I typed in Buzz Lightyear riding
a bicycle.

809
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,920
Few seconds later, there's a
clip of Buzz Lightyear riding a

810
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,080
bicycle.
So it's not like this isn't

811
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,840
happening without a deal in
place.

812
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,920
So they might as well be
compensated for it.

813
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,920
They might as well be
compensated for it.

814
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,840
And, you know, no company is
more concerned with how to keep

815
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,080
up with what kids want.
The children of the future, how

816
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,680
do we entertain them?
And they really have conceded

817
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,440
that young people like to remix
things, want to be involved with

818
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,120
their entertainment in a
different way.

819
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,640
They don't just want to sit
there and watch what Hollywood

820
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,240
has created.
So, you know, they're going to

821
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:23,240
do it anyway.
We might as well be involved and

822
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,080
get paid for it and try to do it
with some what they call

823
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,840
guardrails.
I think no sex, no drugs.

824
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,000
You can't have, you know,
Cinderella.

825
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,400
You know, one of the things that
it's not something that I know

826
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,000
is part of your notes, Jonathan,
that I just wanted to share.

827
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,240
This just reminded me and I
don't even know if it happened

828
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:43,560
in this clip, but it reminded me
that one of the things I noticed

829
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,000
maybe as a podcaster, as a
producer, I noticed and

830
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,440
appreciated the way that they
sometimes they being the daily

831
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,720
edited down the responses of
their guests.

832
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,840
Just because the guest has a lot
to say doesn't mean that it's

833
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,960
all valuable and doesn't need to
always be shared in its

834
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,760
entirety.
And I definitely noticed moments

835
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,240
that it felt like they were
probably going to say more, but

836
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:14,200
it was cut off and then inserted
in the next question.

837
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,760
But and that so I wanted to make
sure to point that out because I

838
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,280
think sometimes some of us feel
like, well, the guest gave us

839
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,800
this big long answer, we got to
leave it in there.

840
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,760
And that is just not the case.
Just leave what's valuable in

841
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,000
there and you can get get rid of
all the fluff.

842
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:33,920
Yes, Ralph, go ahead.
And I wonder if they used AI to

843
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,880
do that, because I know in the
script I can drop my show into

844
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,120
the script and say cut out the
fluff, basically.

845
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,000
And that's an AI tool doing
that.

846
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,720
So that's a whole nother level,
isn't it?

847
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,840
Yeah.
And they were very and they made

848
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,040
it very clear that Hollywood
doesn't have a problem with

849
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:49,720
that.
They don't have a problem with

850
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:52,840
tools that are assisting the
production process.

851
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:56,080
They have a problem with tools
that are just completely

852
00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:01,840
replacing the entire process at
the entire Hollywood brand.

853
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,000
I think is really what they're
more concerned about.

854
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,280
But they, it sounds, it sounded
like from the interview, using

855
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:14,520
it to enhance, using it to speed
up the production process.

856
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,280
As far as AI is concerned, they
had no problem with that.

857
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:19,240
Yeah.
And something else to keep in

858
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:22,200
mind, if we're talking about
obsession Worthy podcast, you

859
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,960
need to serve your audience.
So what you're cutting out needs

860
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,360
to be the stuff that doesn't
serve your audience, whether

861
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,360
it's good or not good.
Like I had an entire podcast.

862
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,200
It was 50 minutes long.
I published 12 minutes of it

863
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:39,680
because there were 12 minutes
that served my audience.

864
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,000
It was a great conversation.
I appreciated the guest, but

865
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,320
there's 12 minutes to serve my
audience and that's what I put

866
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,080
out.
And you know, we got to keep

867
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,520
that in mind when we're looking
at something making it obsession

868
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,320
worthy.
So back to clip 4.

869
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,480
Unless there's I think Dr. has
their hand up.

870
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:58,720
I just wanted to say since we're
on the topic of cutting out

871
00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:02,800
stuff that your guests say
usually. 99% of the time when a

872
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,000
guest says, hey, that's a great
question, I will cut that out.

873
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,520
Because it is. 100% always.
They're trying to think of a

874
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,080
good answer.
Which is.

875
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:18,240
Fine, but I mean, that's just
such a catch phrase that you

876
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:20,240
need to cut that out.
Agreed.

877
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,400
Yeah, so.
And that was a good answer that

878
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:23,160
I just did.
Thanks.

879
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,800
That was a good Yeah.
So what clip four kind of

880
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,840
introduces is this tension
around who controls what, who

881
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,480
owns the characters, who gets to
remix them, who gets paid, who

882
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,880
sets the rules and who decides
on what's allowed.

883
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,280
And Disney wanted to be a part
of this.

884
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,640
That was their decision.
They wanted to be a part of

885
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,560
this.
And I believe that's kind of a

886
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,440
decision that's going to still
stand.

887
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,600
Even though we lost Sora, That
decision is going to stand, and

888
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,080
it's going to be one that others
follow because they get to be a

889
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,560
part of what's happening with
the AI, and that matters.

890
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,840
So I think that's really
important, yeah.

891
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,440
Good point.
Yep, absolutely.

892
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,120
All right, Clip 5, after walking
us through all these strange

893
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,920
examples, the AI actress, the
human stakes, what is going to

894
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,600
mean for creatives, the messy
questions around performance and

895
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,160
who gets the Oscar and Disney's
decision.

896
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,000
We're looking for a payoff
because we're always looking for

897
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,160
a payoff when we're listening,
listening to a podcast.

898
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,680
But again, it's not clean like
AI is good or AI is bad.

899
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,960
Instead, we're kind of looking
for a best case scenario here.

900
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:32,440
So here we go, Clip 5.
But one of the positive ways

901
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:38,320
that companies spin this is that
the studios that if AI reduces

902
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:43,520
costs, makes it easier, cheaper
for us to make these movies, we

903
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,440
can justify taking bolder
creative risks if it's not so

904
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,160
expensive.
It's a little rich to hear

905
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,000
studio executives talk like
that, right?

906
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:56,320
Like, like, OK, I believe you.
But there is something in it

907
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:02,400
that if the cost of a movie goes
down, they are more willing to

908
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,600
let it be a little more unusual.
Not all the time, but sometimes,

909
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:08,840
right?
And so that is a possibility

910
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,200
here if we're looking for rays
of sunlight, right?

911
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,760
If you cast Tilly Norwood
enough, then you will get

912
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,840
sinners.
If that happens, I will be the

913
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:22,880
happiest person in the world.
But it is hard for me to believe

914
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,200
that's where we're going.
Yeah.

915
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:30,280
So this, I mean, we could have
just done something like, OK, AI

916
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,200
is coming for Hollywood jobs.
It's the end.

917
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,360
That could have been the way
they ended the episode, or AI is

918
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,680
going to unlock unlimited
creativity.

919
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:43,480
But where they win is it lands
in a much more honest place.

920
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:48,080
It doesn't give you a clean like
conclusion that means nothing.

921
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,600
It tells you, hey, this could be
a positive version, but I don't

922
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,080
know the people promising it.
I don't know if we believe them.

923
00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:00,680
And that makes the entire series
feel trustworthy because it's

924
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,640
not forcing something.
It's giving you what's really

925
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,080
happening.
And it doesn't always have to

926
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,120
give you a tidy answer.
You don't always have to create

927
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:12,240
a tidy answer when you, you
know, just let people know these

928
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:14,520
are things that are happening.
Give it a clear people, a clear

929
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,040
way to think.
The payoff isn't certainty.

930
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,280
The payoff is clarity.
And that's what we get in this

931
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,960
podcast.
Yeah, a great breakdown,

932
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,080
Jonathan.
Thank you.

933
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:28,320
And The Daily is an obsession
worthy podcast, in my opinion,

934
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,600
because listeners know what
they're coming for, right?

935
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,240
They're coming for that clarity,
like you said at the beginning.

936
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,320
That's the biggest lesson for
us, I think as podcasters is

937
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,720
when your show has a clear
promise, you do and you deliver

938
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:45,640
that promise again and again,
people have a reason to come

939
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,360
back and it makes them more
likely to share your show with

940
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,600
others, right?
So that's such a, that's my big

941
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,320
take away really is the, is the
clarity aspect.

942
00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:00,080
It's taking these subjects that
we hear so often talked about

943
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,400
like AI infiltrating certain
industries and how that's

944
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:08,280
affecting those industries.
That can be a heavy topic to

945
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:13,120
stomach and having it broken
down in a more conversational

946
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,960
and clear, concise way.
I think that's what makes this

947
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,400
one sing so well.
Yeah, I agree.

948
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,640
I have a couple quick takeaways,
but I know if there's questions

949
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,200
and stuff I will just post them
on the Facebook group.

950
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,160
Yeah, I don't think anybody has
any questions, but yeah, please

951
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,960
share any of yours.
All right, so quick takeaways,

952
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,520
don't open with a broad topic.
Start with something specific

953
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,960
and impossible to ignore.
Whatever your topic is, find

954
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,600
specificity in that because when
you're talking it, when you're

955
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,760
talking about a trend, when
you're really specific about who

956
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,360
that impacts, that's going to
land much better.

957
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,360
Also, let your audience feel the
tension long enough that they're

958
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,440
going to want it resolved.
Like don't just hey, here's

959
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,720
what's happening and you know
it's bad and here's the

960
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:01,520
resolution because they're not
going to latch on to that.

961
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,560
If you let them actually feel
the tension, feel the emotion,

962
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,440
feel what people are going
through, then that's something

963
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,960
they're going to latch on to.
And then sometimes your best

964
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,200
episodes don't need a quick yes
or no solution.

965
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:17,800
Provide the possibilities and
that could be where the real

966
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,080
impact is of your of your
episode.

967
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,400
And make it human.
Please make it human.

968
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,040
Even if it's about AI, make it
human.

969
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,760
Thank you, Jonathan.
You know, and that last quote

970
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,720
just really stuck with me
because it may be in because I

971
00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:34,400
was thinking about Ralph and his
opposite take.

972
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,120
And Ralph, I appreciate that you
had an opposite take, but and it

973
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:42,920
feels almost not quite
conflicting, but you have been

974
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,400
somebody on this show
specifically that advocates the

975
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,400
human side and you've pushed
that.

976
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,920
Don't let AI do the content for
you.

977
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,240
Put your own voice into it
because that's what people want.

978
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:00,720
They want the human side.
And so I feel like that somewhat

979
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:03,120
contradicts this.
Who cares?

980
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:06,440
AI is going to take over and we,
you know, we just have to adapt.

981
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:11,080
But I've heard you say that it's
really important that we keep

982
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,960
the human side.
So I'm curious what your

983
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,280
thoughts are.
Let me address that because I

984
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,040
still live in that same camp.
My opinion is when it comes to

985
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:23,160
entertainment, when it comes to
fantasy, when it comes to

986
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,160
Hollywood, I think that ship has
sailed.

987
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,000
But I think there still is a
place for people that want to

988
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,000
connect with people one-on-one
as a human being.

989
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:32,960
And I think that's the beauty of
podcasting.

990
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,360
The beauty of podcasting is we
come to speak to someone that we

991
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,600
have a relationship with or that
we want to build a relationship

992
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,920
with.
AI is never going to take that

993
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:44,880
over.
Unfortunately, when it comes to

994
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,000
entertainment, I think that ship
has sailed.

995
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:48,840
That's where I see the
difference, Mark.

996
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:50,760
I'm not saying to just throw our
hands up.

997
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,640
Let's give up about AI because I
think there's still a place for

998
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:57,840
innovators even in Hollywood.
The thing about AI is mediocre

999
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,200
at best.
So if we're going to accept

1000
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,320
mediocre, then we're going to
accept mediocre.

1001
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,320
I think it all comes down to the
audience.

1002
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,240
What does the audience accet?
Here's a great analogy of that.

1003
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:12,040
20 years ago when Hotosho came
out, guess what?

1004
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,400
Every picture in the world was,
quote, doctored U Nobody flipped

1005
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,200
out about that because that was
just accepted.

1006
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:22,160
Well, AI is becoming accepted in
Hollywood.

1007
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:23,720
I'm not saying it that there
aren't.

1008
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,400
There aren't problems with it,
but I still think there's a

1009
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,080
place for authenticity.
So yeah, Mark, you're right,

1010
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,640
it's a little bit of a conflict,
but I think it depends on the

1011
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,640
audience and I think it depends
on what you're trying to

1012
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,320
accomplish.
Yeah.

1013
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,680
And I think it's also important
though, to point out that I

1014
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,960
think that a lot of podcasters
that aren't doing entertainment

1015
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:46,280
style shows forget that there is
still an entertainment element

1016
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,920
to podcasting, right?
Like we, we think that if we are

1017
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:55,120
more of a how to style show,
right, or a business style show,

1018
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:56,840
it doesn't need to be
entertaining.

1019
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,160
We just got to give value.
And there are probably arguments

1020
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,200
for some audiences, that's all
they want.

1021
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,960
But I think that the more we can
be entertaining, the more we're

1022
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,880
going to continue to build an
audience.

1023
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,960
It's harder to build an audience
without being somewhat

1024
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,720
entertaining for them.
I agree with you 100%.

1025
00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:17,320
I think that is the secret to
it.

1026
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,160
If you just want to come and
spit out information, go to

1027
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,080
ChatGPT and let it spit out an
LLM model for you.

1028
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,720
But if you want to come for a
relationship, you want to come

1029
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:27,640
for entertainment, you want to
come with a connection.

1030
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,880
That's the beauty of podcasting.
Yeah, absolutely.

1031
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:32,480
Cool.
All right.

1032
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,480
Well, Jonathan, thank you for
another great episode of

1033
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,680
Obsession Worthy Podcasts.
We'll be back with that again in

1034
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:43,440
two weeks because next Monday,
May the Fourth, will be our

1035
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,080
Money Monday series with Ralph
Estep.

1036
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,160
And then, yeah, we'll pick it
back up the following Monday.

1037
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,440
So come join us then and
remember that we are here all

1038
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,720
week long, Monday through
Friday, 7:00 AM Eastern.

1039
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,120
The last time I'll be saying
that for the remainder of this

1040
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:00,760
week anyway.
It'll be the last time I'm

1041
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,040
saying 7:00 AM Eastern Time.
Come join us at Podcasting

1042
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:08,040
Morning chat.com/join us to find
all the ways that you can be a

1043
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:12,320
part of this show live or after
the fact as a podcast.

1044
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,000
So until tomorrow, make it a
great day everybody.

1045
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:16,680
Take care.