388 - Adobe’s Big Win, Why Hosts Matter Most, & More Podcast Headlines

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Good morning podcasting Morning
Chat.

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Today is Thursday, October 16th,
2025, and today we're diving

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back into podcasting headlines,
including fresh research on

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listener habits, YouTube's
unexpected move on banned

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creators, and why one IAI expert
says most creators are missing

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the point.
So if you're listening live on

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Clubhouse, hit the share button,
bottom left hand side of the

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screen and share it.
However, Clubhouse lets you.

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And if you're catching us via
podcaster YouTube, please share

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this episode with a fellow
podcaster.

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00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,720
And now give us about 30 seconds
and we'll get things rolling.

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Thanks for being here.
Good morning again, podcasting,

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Morning Chat.
Thanks so much for being here.

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I am your host Mark Ronik and
currently on stage with me.

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We have Nick Naul back, producer
Ashley Feller, Sid Meadows and

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Dr. Faye, and I'm sure we will
see more of the cast and crew

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momentarily.
I don't.

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I just swallowed that word
momentarily.

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And today, since we had so many
headlines that we didn't get to

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yesterday, we felt let's dive
into more of them today.

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I think we're going to have some
interesting discussions here.

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First, a shout out.
Although he's not here live, I

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should just text him to let him
know.

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Let me do that.
I'm texting our good friend,

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regular community member Jeanade
Ahmed.

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He is speaking today at
Podcasting Made Simple Live.

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That's Alex Sanfilippo of Pod
Match.

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That's his event that he does
quarterly.

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It's part of his package where
he also has a podcast called

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Podcasting Made Simple.
He does this live event

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quarterly, like I said, and it's
it consists of lots of different

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podcasters and content creators
in the space speaking on their

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areas of expertise.
I know that Dave Campbell, who's

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here in the audience, I know he
did that the last event

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Podcasting Made Simple Live.
So shout out to him as well.

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But yeah, Janae is going to be
speaking there on how to create

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a guest setup that builds
credibility on sight and sound.

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He did something similar at
Empowered Podcasting, our live

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event almost, well I guess about
2-3 weeks ago now, and killed

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it.
So if you missed that and want

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to see it before we release the
Empowered Podcasting video, you

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can go check that out,
Podcasting Made Simple.

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Let's see if you want the best
way to probably do this is go to

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podmatch.com/event and you'll
get all the details there.

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OK, so with that, I think let me
see if, yeah, let me just hit

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the music here since it is
Newsday and let's get into some

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more news, shall we?
By the way, that event starts at

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10:30 AM Eastern Time today,
October 16th, and it goes all

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day.
So even if you're hearing this a

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little late, you can still go
check out all the fun at some

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point when available, when
you're available.

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So let's get into it.
Some news.

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The Signal Awards have unveiled
their winners, celebrating

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excellence across audio and the
media space, and we're thrilled

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to spotlight that Kenda Lawson
took home the bronze award for

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Best Host.
As many in our community know,

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Kenda is part of our circle.
She's the wife of Dominic

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Lawson, one of our community
leaders and familiar Co host on

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the podcasting morning chat.
Congrats to Kenda and her show,

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The B Word and all of the 2025
Signal Award winners.

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I'm looking just to see if maybe
we have any other winners here

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so far this morning.
I don't think so, but if you

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were a winner, please let me
know if we missed it.

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Also, podcasts are everywhere,
duh.

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And Adobe wants them to all
sound like they were recorded in

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a $5000 podcast studio.
The company as we know their AI

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powered enhanced speech tool.
We know that tool wealth talked

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about it many times.
It just scored a spot on times

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Best Inventions of 2025 list
thanks to its ability to erase

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noise echo distortion in a
matter of seconds.

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I would argue it's more like a
matter of minutes, but I'll

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still take that any day.
Originally launched in late 2024

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as part of Adobe Podcast, the
web-based suite has already

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cleaned up more than 100 million
audio files.

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As Adobe's head of AI audio Jay
LaBeouf puts it, you can have

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the most brilliant story to
tell, but if it's muffled by

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background noise or echo, people
tune out.

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It's a fairpoint, though.
With this level of audio

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sorcery, turning, tuning out
might finally get harder.

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So kudos to Adobe.
I'm actually Nick.

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What?
What's with the emoji of Batman

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rubbing his chin?
I'm curious what you're

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thinking.
You've used this before, and I

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feel like it's a product that
you've endorsed in some way,

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shape or form.
So yeah, what's with the emoji?

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Yeah, a decent amount.
I don't have to get like a whole

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spotlight and win an award over
all of the other tools that

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exist out there.
I feel like it's kind of like

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it's decent but it's not like
mind boggling.

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Yeah.
So, Nick, go ahead Dr. So, Nick,

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how would you weigh Adobe Voice
Enhancer against Offonic?

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Do you use?
She's laughing because we had a

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little discussion about this
prior to the show's starting.

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Nick, are you an Offonic user?
Very minimal, like I definitely

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use the Adobe more than Offonic
but with the little bit that I

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have used aphonic and knowing
how much has been improved on

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the aphonic side like I feel
like I would learn more towards

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aphonic over Adobe.
It just seems to do a better

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job.
Believe you guys still run this

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entire podcast.
Yep, we sure do.

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Darn.
Good job.

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Yeah, and that's a preference
because I find that aphonic.

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I like it better.
I think it's more flexible, has

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more options, and personally, I
think it does a better job.

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Do we want to?
Let's hear from Billy.

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Billy just joined us up here.
Go ahead, Billy.

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Good morning.
Good morning.

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No, I was just going to say
since Nick's audio sounds like

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he's on the freeway, maybe we
can maybe we can do a little

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side by side edit request and
maybe have a little comparison

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that is.
A great point.

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You can certainly, if you're a
live listener, you can go back

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and listen to really any episode
where Nick is involved in the

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conversation and you can compare
what you've heard live versus

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what it spits out.
And I think it does a good job.

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I think you can tell still that
Nick's audio is a little

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different than say, the majority
of the participants in the

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conversation, but I think you
can tell it does a better job

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with his audio than the natural,
the original audio.

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Nick, doesn't this drive you
crazy?

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Is don't you feel like it's time
to get yourself some new, a new

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headset or something?
Yeah, I'm just too lazy to do

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it.
And I'm really pissed off

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because I had really nice
headphones that I really liked

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and they went out on me.
So I'm like, I'm stuck with

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these and I've gotten caught up
in the research of headphones

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and then got overwhelmed by it.
Just end up shutting off the

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computer.
Yeah, we might have to have a

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telethon for you, Nick.
Yes, so yes, we have our we have

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our fake GoFundMe that that I
mentioned everyone once in

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awhile.
Maybe we really need to do it.

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Although that's not going to
help Nick with his issue because

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his issue really isn't that he
can't afford it.

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His issue is is that he can't
make a damn decision on what he

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wants.
So congratulations to Adobe and

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I do agree with Nick.
I think it it's feels like a lot

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to get an award from Time
magazine in their best

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inventions of 2025 list when we
know there are more robust

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options out there that we
believe are even better.

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And it's not a knock on Adobe.
I think it's great for the

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average user who doesn't want to
be overwhelmed with all the

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different bells and whistles.
They just want to drop it in,

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get the audio fixed, and you
play with the what is it like

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two different sliders to make
any adjustments you can.

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You can increase the audio
adjustments that it makes or

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decrease it by just sliding a
little slider and it gives you

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what percentage you're sliding
it to still.

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Have to clean up after using
Adobe probably.

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I'm going to say 50% of the time
I have to do some cleaning

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because there's that little
gremlin sound that happens and

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it's a pain in the ass.
And I've noticed, I don't know

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Dr. 'cause you might use it more
than I do with Adobe, but I know

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I used to notice when I used it
more sometimes it was giving

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people a lisp, like it sounded
like their s s were THS and it

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would drive me crazy.
Have you not noticed that?

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I have not noticed that I'm
listening for the Gremlin sound

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more than anything else, so
that's what I'm in tune to.

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Yeah, and I saw Nick had flashed
the 100%.

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So yeah, I think, I don't think
it's just me noticing that.

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I think I remember one time I
clipped something from this show

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and it was a conversation with
me and Simona Costantini and I

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shared it with her and she got
back to me love to the clip, and

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then said, wait, do I have a
lisp?

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I don't.
How did that happen?

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She was so confused and thought
maybe she hadn't noticed a lisp

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all her life.
And I assured her, no, I think

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that's just Adobe's enhancement
tool.

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Yeah.
So beware.

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And I'd like DRDR says check
your work or check Adobe's work

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before you put it out there.
Go ahead, Nick.

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I've primarily used it within
Premiere Pro.

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Like a lot of the clips, they
have their enhanced speech baked

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into the Premiere Pro software
and less is definitely more like

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it goes to using that.
Like I'll I would usually run my

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videos through it and enhance
the speech, but I would set it

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to like such a low setting where
it made a slight improvement to

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the audio.
But I wasn't trying to eliminate

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like all backgrounds on because
then yeah, you get all the the

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artifact happening.
I don't know what makes that

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gremlin sound.
Is it the fact that I'm

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eliminating all the background
noise or is it the percentage?

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The higher you go in the
percentage of the what's the

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other graph that it gives you?
You know, like the compression

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stuff, the higher you go, the
more gremlin sounds that there

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are.
Do you know what I'm saying?

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Yeah.
And then Ashley just put in the

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chat here that she believes it's
the amount of compression that's

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being added that ends up
creating some of that nonsense.

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Yeah, I I'm with Ashley on that
one.

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So pick your poison, I suppose.
And again, I think that aphonic

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is for my personal taste, the
best option.

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So check them out a UPHONIC or
of course, go to Adobe podcast.

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They do have lots of other
features besides their audio

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enhancement.
And again, I think if for the

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average person who doesn't want
to be bothered with too many

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options, I think it's a great,
it's a great option for you.

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And by the way, shout out to
Ralph in the audience.

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Ralph I met at the Empowered
Podcasting conference for the

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first time.
He's been in the podcast space

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for a while, but that was our
first time really connecting.

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Good to see you here, Ralph.
Thank you for being here and

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always cool to see some
Empowered Podcasting faces here

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on the Podcasting morning chat.
And I know yesterday I was

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admiring, and I've said this
once before, I was admiring all

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the profile pictures in the
crowded room yesterday with the

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Empowered Podcasting backgrounds
and pictures from the

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conference.
It just makes me smile to see

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all of these, all these familiar
faces proudly representing the

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conference.
But yeah, good to see you,

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Ralph.
Thanks for being here and let me

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keep it moving.
I know Dr. is going to have some

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have to bounce for a minute for
cooking time for her husband.

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So enjoy cooking those eggs.
Dr. I'm going to skip the line

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and go to some AI news.
I saw this on pod news recently.

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Probably, yeah, probably over
those this last week.

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And in this piece, podcast tech
insider Sam Batacaria, I do

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think I'm pronouncing his last
name right, with an AI research

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background.
He argues that most people

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misunderstand what AI actually
is.

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And Full disclosure, I shared
this article with Nick yesterday

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'cause I want to get Nick's take
on it too, as one of our go TOS

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when we talk AI.
So like I said, Sam says that

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most people misunderstand what
AI actually is.

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Goes on to say it's mechanics,
it's limits, and where it really

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00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,960
helps or fails.
This is a reality check for

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00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,000
creators leaning into AI as a as
buzzword.

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00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,240
The author Sam, who has a
background like I said in AI,

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00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:44,240
says that public discourse
treats AI as a monolithic force.

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But in reality, AI encompasses
many kinds of models, systems,

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00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,760
and methods.
Most people today equate AI with

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00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,440
LLMS, large language models, or
image generation tools, but

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those are just a small slice of
its broader use cases.

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And yes, I love using it for
image and video generation, but

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I think more so just to play
with the exception of making

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images of our episode cover
images, LLMS work by statistical

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00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,800
prediction of next words.
We've talked about that before,

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not deep understanding.
So they can generate plausible

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00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,600
text.
But as we've shared before, they

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00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,360
also, and I'm sure you've
experienced, they've all, they

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00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:35,080
also hallucinate, meaning they
produce false or misleading

241
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,840
output when it's uncertain.
It's interesting that the the

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00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,280
verbiage here says it's
uncertain, yet prior to that it

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00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,160
says it doesn't have a deep
understanding.

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00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,000
I I don't think it can be
uncertain if it can't understand

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00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,600
deeply.
Just my thought, but I think we

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00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,080
understand what they're getting
out there.

247
00:15:54,360 --> 00:16:00,160
Many AI podcasting tools like
say Opus or Minvo Auto editors,

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00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:06,840
Riverside are quote rappers
built on LLMS or AP is not fully

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00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:11,000
trained systems, which
introduces limitations, errors

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00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,720
and over promising of
performance.

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00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,480
So putting that into more
layman's terms, they're saying

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00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,200
here that let's use Opus as an
example since it's pretty well

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00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:27,360
known among content creators.
It's really just working in the

254
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,840
background with ChatGPT or one
of its competitors.

255
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:36,440
It's not really fully built for
it, its own model.

256
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,520
So that's why it's saying that
it can introduce those

257
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,760
limitations, those errors,
etcetera.

258
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:48,640
And the author calls out AI
slop, quote UN quote, shallow or

259
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,960
inflated marketing of quote, AI
is magic and emphasizes the gulf

260
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,240
between hype and substance.
So the article suggesting that a

261
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:02,560
hype, there's a hybrid future
creators using AI as an assist

262
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,760
rather than a replacement, which
again, I know we talk about that

263
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,599
often.
That's how we encourage you to

264
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:12,520
use AI, especially as agent
based editing tools evolve.

265
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,520
So before I ask any questions to
the whole group, Nick, any

266
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,319
thoughts?
Any comments on this article?

267
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,000
I agree entirely with the
article.

268
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,560
Like I I think we've talked
about it a lot here.

269
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,600
We've got conversations at the
Empower podcasting conference

270
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,680
similar to this.
Like a lot of the people that

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00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,960
use AI and dislike AI typically
do it because they don't

272
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,520
understand how to use it
correctly.

273
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,160
They're expecting it to be this
magic pill that you just type in

274
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,520
whatever you want and it
magically produces everything or

275
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,960
anything.
And when it doesn't produce or

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00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,360
do a good job at doing
everything, people either put it

277
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:03,400
to shame or just give up.
That's generated with AI.

278
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,360
Yeah, they give up and.
I believe they talked about it

279
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,960
in the article as well, but like
using AI for very specific use

280
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,800
cases is more what it's geared
to do.

281
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,080
It's not to replace your entire
workflow necessarily, which one

282
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,360
AI model is not.
Now when you get into like the

283
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,800
agent type stuff and stringing
models together and getting the

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00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,400
AI to kind of build off of
getting different AI models to

285
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,520
build off of previous work that
AI has built, that's where you

286
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,560
kind of get a little bit more
towards that all-encompassing

287
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,560
thing.
But not many people are willing

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00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,360
to put it the time it takes to
understand how to do that and

289
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,880
really build those systems to
create something that's a little

290
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,960
bit more all-encompassing.
So what then?

291
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,520
When you say I, it sounds.
I'm paraphrasing but sounding

292
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,560
like you're saying, you know,
using AI for specific tasks,

293
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:05,920
specific things.
So what?

294
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:07,840
What are you suggesting
specifically?

295
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:13,520
I mean the the AI briefing was a
30,000 foot view of what I'm

296
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,000
trying to explain like that.
When I was running that show, it

297
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,600
was primarily automated using
stringing together all of these

298
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,160
different AI tools through one
system by usedmake.com.

299
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,840
To do that, like similar to
Sapir, it was basically feeding

300
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,160
each step of the podcasting
process.

301
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,240
I broke it down very granularly
from sourcing the content to

302
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,840
writing the scripts to
generating the audio.

303
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:42,880
And I feel like to be more
effective if I could have even

304
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,960
got more granular with the whole
system.

305
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,680
But you're basically tasking AI
with a very specific thing to do

306
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,320
and not just basically trying to
say just like do my podcast for

307
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,840
me and the the Do my Podcast for
me is where most is the camp

308
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,520
that most people fall in.
When you and you say, meaning

309
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,760
you feel like they're hoping to
use AI to just do everything for

310
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,920
them, right?
Is that what you're saying?

311
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,400
Yeah.
And I know I'm very much

312
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,840
generalizing by saying that, but
that I feel like is the general

313
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,680
consensus.
And that leads to people one

314
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,840
either disliking AI because it
doesn't produce or disliking AI

315
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,080
because they think it can
produce that kind of thing.

316
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,560
That's why the AI slapped turn.
Like when I see that thrown

317
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,320
around, it's like you don't
understand how AI is supposed to

318
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,640
be used because you're seeing
just people playing with it,

319
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,000
screwing up with it.
Like a It doesn't mean that all

320
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:47,480
AI is trash, it just means that
you're seeing the stuff that

321
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,200
people are just goofing off of
AI on.

322
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,600
Yeah, or they're just using it
as trash, right?

323
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:59,640
It can be as powerful as you
want it to be, but the AI slop

324
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,880
really comes from, in my
opinion, from the people that

325
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,280
are using it.
We'll call it for now

326
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,120
incorrectly, just because I
can't think of a better word.

327
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,920
Well, look at that.
I called out Ralph, and now he's

328
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,120
up here to participate in the
conversation.

329
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:14,520
Love it.
Welcome, Ralph.

330
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,040
Good morning.
What do you want to add to all

331
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:17,840
this?
Yeah, I just want to make sure

332
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:18,720
you can hear me.
OK.

333
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,520
I'm talking to my iPhone.
Very cool.

334
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,760
Thank you for letting me join
in.

335
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,360
You know, I do a Daily Show, and
I was really leaning on AI for a

336
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:29,480
long time, hoping it was going
to be the, you know, the whole

337
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,480
content creator.
And I guess it was about a month

338
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,160
ago.
I really had to take a step back

339
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,960
and say, wait a second, this is
going in a direction.

340
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,800
It's not me anymore.
And it was very easy to lean

341
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,520
into it.
You know, it started off easy

342
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,040
enough.
Well, give me some topics, You

343
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,680
know, doing a Daily Show becomes
a topic generation tool for me.

344
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,560
The AI was, but it was so easy
to just lean into that and say,

345
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,680
well, you know, the give AI the,
the, the tools to go ahead and

346
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,440
create this whole script for me.
And then it was funny.

347
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,640
I was, I was doing a recording
one morning and I found myself

348
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,360
saying something was like, I
don't believe this.

349
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,360
And I, I said, you know, I got
to pull back from this.

350
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:07,760
And, and I did that about a
month ago.

351
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,800
And let me tell you right now,
it has been so much better

352
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,360
leaning into my own belief
system.

353
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,120
I still use AI to kind of help
me with some tweaks and things

354
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,440
like that.
But man, there's so many content

355
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,320
creators I'm here and now and
I'm seeing that are just leaning

356
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,880
into AI and, and we're losing
the personality of who that

357
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,760
person is.
And I just worry about that.

358
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,960
So that I just want to share
that because it's a real easy

359
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,280
trap to fall into.
Thank you, Ralph.

360
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:36,040
Yeah, I'm with you there.
And by the way, just because

361
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,880
either you're new to Clubhouse
or it's just been a while, what

362
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,040
we try to do here is hit that
mute button when we're done

363
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,880
talking just to avoid any
feedback or anything like that.

364
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,080
That's at the bottom right, just
FYI.

365
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,000
And thank you for that, Ralph,
because I think that's that's

366
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,920
really important for us to pay
attention and listen to the

367
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,680
content that we're creating.
In other words, if it's not

368
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,200
feeling like us anymore, if it's
feeling off, I think it's great

369
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,000
advice.
Or at least, you know, following

370
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,440
in what in Ralph's footsteps to
stop and take a step back and

371
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:16,680
question, is this me anymore?
Does this does, is there

372
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,280
something I can do to make a
change?

373
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,160
And yeah, I think that it's easy
to get reliant on AI and what it

374
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,680
can do, but if you're anything
like me, I use it to help me

375
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,960
create blog posts, create
LinkedIn posts, etcetera.

376
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:40,000
And I don't think I've ever just
said produce this copy paste and

377
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,480
walk away because I don't feel
comfortable doing that because

378
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,480
it doesn't really feel like me.
I can just feel it right away.

379
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,240
I can see it right away.
And and when I read it, I'm

380
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,200
like, yeah, I just, I can't put
that out there because it's not

381
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,960
really representing me.
So I use it more to guide me.

382
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,560
And then I do rewrite a good
chunk of it.

383
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,680
Do I leave some stuff as it is?
Yeah, because it's captured me

384
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,760
and my opinion perfectly because
it's working from a transcript.

385
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,480
It's using my thoughts from the
conversations we have here in

386
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,640
the morning.
But yeah, I think avoiding it, I

387
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,720
think just taking a step back
when it's not quite feeling

388
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,280
right anymore is some great
advice, Ralph.

389
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,760
Thank you for that.
Now I'm curious too, Ralph.

390
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:29,760
Saying that.
Go ahead.

391
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,280
Ralph's saying that like kind of
sparks up that I think a lot of

392
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:40,160
my frustration with how people
use AI and their opinions on AI

393
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:45,040
is it's very much you're either
100% all in on AI or 100% all

394
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,320
against AI.
And I don't agree with that at

395
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,560
all.
And Ralph, what Ralph was saying

396
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,560
right there is exactly it like
he's not going to or he doesn't

397
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,760
want to use AI for 100% of the
things that he's doing, but he

398
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,800
still uses AI for this and that,
like things that he can use to

399
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,280
enhance what he's currently
doing.

400
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,800
And I think that to me is what's
the most frustrating.

401
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,400
It's like either you're you're
all in or you're all out.

402
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,280
There's only two options.
That exist out there.

403
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,440
Thank you, Nick, I'm with you
there.

404
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,240
And it made me think, you know,
we sometimes talk about how do

405
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:26,520
we do we have our own built in
AI detectors in our own brains,

406
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,360
right.
And one of the one of the tells,

407
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,400
and I'm curious if anyone has
any tells they want to share.

408
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,600
One of the tells for me are
those comparative sentences

409
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:42,200
where they say it's not about
this, it's about that, right?

410
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,880
That anytime now I see that it's
yeah, I'm OK AI.

411
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,960
Thank you.
Even though I'm sure there are

412
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,160
instances where it is an actual
human writing it.

413
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,200
And I see lots of people want to
chime in.

414
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,960
Let me go to Sid 1st.
And then I saw Ashley and Dr.

415
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,440
want to chime in.
So Sid, do you have a an AI

416
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,400
tell?
For me it's to format chat.

417
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,720
GBT is famous for big bald
letters, the title or the subtle

418
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,480
action of a blog, and that's a
really easy thing to tell when

419
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,480
it's like that.
Also, a lot of times when people

420
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,040
write, I know at least when I
write and I write a subtitle

421
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,960
right underneath it all right, a
paragraph and before I get to my

422
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,280
main points.
So I have a couple of sentences

423
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,160
there about the subtitle and AI
will just give them one

424
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,760
sentence.
And I think the spacing on the

425
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,920
bullet points is another thing.
That's a really big tale for

426
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,760
what AI is.
I think it's honestly you're

427
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,320
looking online, whether it's
LinkedIn or somewhere else,

428
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,480
you're reading A blog and it has
got these big bold titles and

429
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,040
then one sentence and then
bullet points that are waste

430
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,760
based out.
That article was written with AI

431
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:51,800
and not with you, so are in
conjunction with you.

432
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,400
Yeah, Thank you, Sid.
Yeah, admittedly, I know what

433
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,680
you're talking about, where a
lot of times when you're asking

434
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,200
it to let's just say, write A
blog, it'll often times give you

435
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,480
those bullet points and often
times use emojis for those

436
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,840
bullet points.
And quite frankly, I keep that.

437
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,320
I like that formatting.
And so it's intentional, even

438
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,600
though maybe in some cases AI
has written it, in other cases I

439
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,400
write it because I just find
that for me, when I'm reading

440
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,280
other posts, having those bullet
points separated makes it just

441
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,520
easier to read.
It makes it feel it doesn't feel

442
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,280
as long to read right.
Like if it's just written in

443
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,160
paragraphs, paragraphs,
paragraphs I'm going to probably

444
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,560
tune out.
But if?

445
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,000
I agree with you, Mark.
Yeah, go ahead.

446
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,040
I use the bullet points because
I use bullet points in my

447
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,120
writing anyway, and I do like
the emojis that it gives you.

448
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:48,640
So I do use that.
But just as a big tell is I

449
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,720
think just a simple formatting.
Like friend of mine wrote

450
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,440
article the other day and she
sent it to me and I said this

451
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,840
article isn't you.
Like this is not your voice.

452
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,120
You wouldn't say these words.
I said you let AI write too much

453
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,080
of this article for you.
It was for our new business and

454
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,800
for a blog.
And I like this is this article.

455
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,200
It doesn't sound like you at all
because I know her.

456
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,080
And so I don't mind the bullet
points.

457
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,600
I don't mind the formatting, but
you got to do more of this and

458
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,040
she sent it back to me a couple
days later and so much better.

459
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,760
I think the message is right
along with what Ralph had to

460
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,320
say, which is use it as your
partner, not as your employee,

461
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,400
not as your doer, right, Use it
as your partner.

462
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:34,560
Agreed.
Thank you, Sid.

463
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,240
And I'm going to jump the line
for a minute and go to Renee

464
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,800
who's joined us from the
audience.

465
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,280
Good morning, Renee.
What do you did You want to add

466
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,960
a tell as far as AI is
concerned?

467
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:51,440
I wanted to add an SEO edition.
When we write our blogs, we want

468
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,480
to be writing for Google, right?
So Google can read it and find

469
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,640
what it likes.
And so in your prompt you want

470
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,880
to consider adding, please add
listicles or bullet points.

471
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,600
Add listicles and tables where
appropriate.

472
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,640
And if you add that to your blog
writing, that is going to be

473
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,600
better for what the format that
Google wants.

474
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,600
Google loves lists and bullets
and Google loves tables because

475
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,920
Google knows that readers will
spend more time on a blog post

476
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,880
or a page even.
You know then if it's not, if it

477
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,400
doesn't have those, so it knows
that people are ingesting tables

478
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,000
and they can handle bullets
better.

479
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,000
So give it what it wants and
include those and don't remove

480
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,760
bullets ever.
And see if you can add a few

481
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,840
more tables to your blogs in the
future.

482
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,520
Thank you, Renee.
Yeah, I think that's an

483
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,840
important point.
What does Google want?

484
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,960
What does SE what's going to
help your SEOI think that's an

485
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,280
important point to focus on.
I think that we have to start

486
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,960
thinking about AI keywords and,
and ways that we can start be

487
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,600
appearing on different AI tools
like ChatGPT, which I think will

488
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,880
be a little different than how
we strategize for SEO.

489
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,080
More to come on that.
I, I was just looking, I saw

490
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:24,000
Simona Costantini had recently
put a blog out there about that,

491
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,880
about really optimizing for AI
in addition to SEO and I can't

492
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,440
find it.
So I will try to find that and

493
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,360
put it in the show notes so we
can talk more about that.

494
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,400
In the meantime, Dr. Did you
want to share an AI tell?

495
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,600
I used to say this word all the
time before AI, and now that AI

496
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,960
has kind of abused it, I try not
to say it in my normal

497
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,640
conversation, but deep dive, of
course, and all the adjectives,

498
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:58,360
captivating, riveting, all those
kind of descriptive, over the

499
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,760
top words.
And also the new word that it

500
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,240
has glommed onto is the word
fluff.

501
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,120
So whenever I see the word
fluff, I think, yeah, AI.

502
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,320
Yeah.
But my prompt, like for

503
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,720
instance, when I want to find a
title for an episode, I started

504
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:24,600
out by saying you are an SEO
expert as well as a copywriter

505
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,920
expert.
And I go on to say I have three

506
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,640
tasks for you.
One, the subject matter of what

507
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:39,720
this transcript is saying, 2
give me a list of 6 of the

508
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,800
highly searched keywords for
this subject matter, and three,

509
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:51,200
give me a list of eight SEO
enhanced titles without using

510
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:56,440
colons or M dashes.
And then I ended.

511
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,560
I always end every prompt by
saying if you have any

512
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,880
clarifying questions, please ask
them one at a time until you are

513
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,640
95% sure of what my goal is.
Thank you, Dr. that I love the

514
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,080
strategy and yeah, the M dash
thing.

515
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,360
I know we've talked about it
before and I've I always

516
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,480
instruct my AI in fact in on
chat GBTI have that saved as its

517
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,240
permanent rules not to use it,
yet it continues to use it.

518
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,560
So for example, using the
example I was sharing earlier,

519
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,200
if I'm having it, say, write a
LinkedIn post or at least

520
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,880
initiate a LinkedIn post, it
will add the M dashes.

521
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,640
Then I'll say no, no, remove the
M dashes.

522
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,200
And then it replaces it with
proper punctuation, like commas,

523
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,200
for example, instead of M
dashes.

524
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:50,520
And then if I work with it some
more and say, yeah, let's fix

525
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,800
this, let's change that.
Oh, I don't like that.

526
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,680
And then it spits something out
and then it goes right back to

527
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,760
those damn M dashes.
It it is really persistent with

528
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,280
those and it's annoying.
It is.

529
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,600
Yeah, let's see Ashley, do you
want to be the the last one to

530
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,760
share any AI tells or have we
taken them all from you?

531
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,200
That was it.
I was going to bring up the M

532
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,120
dashes even before AII used to
write with M dashes, but no

533
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,400
human uses like 5 in one
paragraph.

534
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,200
Yeah, I agree.
And yeah, that M dash, it's a

535
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,240
long dash, right?
It's like a double dash and it's

536
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:33,720
used to emphasize a pause, but I
think it's just way overused,

537
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,960
especially if you look at
content online.

538
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,400
Yes, it did.
You want to add something and

539
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,720
then we'll go to Renee.
I had a question for Dr. So Dr.

540
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,200
when you're working with your
customers and you're using chat

541
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,720
GMT, I would assume do you have
project folders for Yes, each

542
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,880
one of your So you know that you
can upload folder and it'll

543
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,320
remember it.
You can upload the keywords that

544
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,120
your show uses right And say.
You know, rather.

545
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,800
Than optimize most search you
can say these you know and look

546
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,239
at the Remember Remember the
overview document and the

547
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,800
important keywords to this show
so it will remember those and

548
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,040
access those but that.
Would be coming off of the

549
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:25,199
description of the show, of the
whole podcast versus the

550
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,040
episode.
I think that there are.

551
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,480
Complementary keywords, right?
There's like your main keywords

552
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,280
that really represent the series
and all the different things

553
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,199
that you talk about, right?
But then yes, to your point,

554
00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:41,800
then you would probably have to
do some additional instructing

555
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,840
as to making specific SEO
specific keywords for SEO for

556
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,800
that are related to that
episode.

557
00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:52,000
Does that make sense?
Is that what you're getting at?

558
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,440
OK, Thank you, Sid and Renee,
did you want to add something

559
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,440
else?
Yeah, just to rewind a little

560
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,400
bit, I just.
Wanted to honor Ashley that she

561
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,120
even knew what keystrokes to do
to find an M-ON her keyboard.

562
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,560
Agreed.
Love that.

563
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:14,200
OK, so let's keep it going.
We got tied up on that one

564
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:19,200
story, and rightfully so.
But let's get into some other

565
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:25,360
news, shall we?
First, forget algorithms.

566
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,840
Your personality is the growth
strategy.

567
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,000
Let me explain.
New data from the podcast study

568
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,200
is out and here's the headline,
although I guess I just gave you

569
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,880
one.
Your show's success has less to

570
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,120
do with algorithms and
everything to do with you.

571
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,920
The research Co produced by
Strategic Solutions Research and

572
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,000
Point to Point Marketing found
that 80% of listeners TuneIn

573
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:56,240
mainly for the host and more
than half would bail if that

574
00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:00,040
host ever left.
Meaning if the host left but

575
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,160
they kept the show going, maybe
with a new host.

576
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,840
So the translation is the magic
of podcasting is in the

577
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,320
connection.
Listeners say that they want

578
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:14,600
that personal bond to extend
beyond the episode feed. 82% are

579
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,080
more likely to open an e-mail if
it comes directly from the host,

580
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,040
not the show, not the network's
name.

581
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,240
So in other words, if I were
sending out my newsletter from,

582
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,680
say, podcasting morning chat,
according to this study, people

583
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,440
are going to be less likely to
open it up as opposed to if I

584
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,520
send it, which I do as me, from
me.

585
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,800
So they're opening up an e-mail
from Mark Ronic.

586
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,600
And while creators love to
obsess over discovery and SEO,

587
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,640
as we just discussed, the study
warns that loyalty is built by

588
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,760
being found.
It's built by being a favorite.

589
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,400
Most listeners commit to just
three podcasts, and that could

590
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,720
be arguable, but I think that
that's a safe assumption.

591
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:02,320
Some some studies say it could
be up to seven podcasts.

592
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,560
But I think as far as like a
true commitment, a true loyalty,

593
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,280
I would agree that it's around 3
and 60% of their listening time

594
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,720
goes to 1 show.
The study is a giant neon sign

595
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:19,000
for podcasters.
Become someone's favorite or

596
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,040
your background noise.
It's not your fancy gear.

597
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,080
It's not your editing software
or perhaps not even your logo.

598
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,560
It's your personality,
consistency and engagement that

599
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,440
Dr. Loyalty.
So let's be clear by the way,

600
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,360
this isn't about
discoverability.

601
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,680
This is about once you're
discovered.

602
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,600
It's about maintaining a long
term relationship with your

603
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,400
audience.
Some experts are predicting that

604
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,480
in 2026, the biggest podcasters
won't be the most discoverable.

605
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,720
However, they'll be the most
human.

606
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,880
Expect a renaissance of
intimacy, smaller shows, tighter

607
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,960
communities, and hosts who treat
their inbox like their stage.

608
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,960
I am a big believer in this and
I know that some, especially

609
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,320
some purists out there, will
argue this with me, but I do

610
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,240
believe we're going to start to
see a shift.

611
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:19,200
I do believe that there will be
a bigger place for smaller

612
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:21,600
shows.
We have to be a little patient,

613
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,560
but I think that it does come
down to how well we connect with

614
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,440
our audience and if we are
connecting on a deep level,

615
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,360
that's where communities are
built.

616
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,160
Janae is on the stage.
Janae, the person we were

617
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,920
referencing at the top of the
show this morning speaking at

618
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,520
Podcasting Made Simple Live
Today, October 16th.

619
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,640
Janae, what did you want to add
to all this morning?

620
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,800
This is.
Such a lovely topic.

621
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,640
Absolutely love this story.
And now it's report, you know,

622
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,280
they've done studies that it's
the people that we are attracted

623
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,760
to and we continue to listen to
shows and there's countless

624
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,760
examples.
We talked about this earlier

625
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,440
this month about Taylor Swift
and the Swifty's because she

626
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,800
built those relationship with
her fans and they show up

627
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,360
wherever she is, right?
Anytime Kevin Hart has a new

628
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,920
movie, people are going to go
watch it because he's built that

629
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,520
audience.
And Hollywood came running back

630
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,760
to Kevin Hart because he built
that audience.

631
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,480
Again, Dane Cook, all of these
people, they built their

632
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,880
audiences and people are going
to continue listening.

633
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,440
Like there's die hard fans that
still go and listen to Howard

634
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,840
Stern because he's built that
audience.

635
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,160
And that's what people want.
That's what corporations want.

636
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,160
And the news story that you were
sharing yesterday of Netflix

637
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,800
going to be bringing Spotify
shows, blah, blah, blah.

638
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,360
It's exactly this.
They want the people that those

639
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,560
podcasts has built to come
subscribe to the service and

640
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,120
then listen to them.
They want the people Facebook

641
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,840
spent $19 billion to buy
WhatsApp because they wanted the

642
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,640
people that the Apple has been.
Thank you.

643
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,680
Yeah, thank.
You, Janae, and your reference

644
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:12,280
to Taylor Swift and Swifties.
Now I'm going to say something

645
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,840
that will initially, it might
rub some Swifties the wrong way,

646
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,200
might be a good thing that
Jonathan Howard isn't in here

647
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,920
this morning.
But I want you to stay with me

648
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,760
because I don't mean it the way
it sounds.

649
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,120
But I think that Taylor Swift, I
believe that she built her

650
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:33,320
success, her empire more on
connection than talent.

651
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:40,720
Now, again, don't get mad yet
because I'm not saying I'm not

652
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:43,200
saying she's not talented
because she's extremely

653
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,960
talented.
And I think that they're

654
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,640
they're, she would probably even
admit I don't think she's got

655
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,760
the best singing voice out
there.

656
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,240
I think that there are just as
good, if not better performers.

657
00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:59,200
Kanye when you need them.
Beyoncé is better.

658
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,960
But I'm not.
Discrediting her talent.

659
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,320
The point is, is that she takes
time to connect with her

660
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,720
audience.
She has learned her audience

661
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,640
what they love.
She caters to that.

662
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,880
Jonathan brings up all of her
Easter eggs that she does.

663
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,880
She does a lot of different
things to make her fan base feel

664
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,200
like they know her, that they're
connected to her, that they can

665
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,080
relate to her.
And then being talented on top

666
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,520
of that is icing on the cake.
And I think you could make an

667
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,840
argument in podcasting the same
way that I think if we are

668
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,320
focused on our connection with
our audience and building a

669
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:43,280
community first, and then we're
also in the background working

670
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,560
on our craft, becoming a better
podcaster.

671
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,280
I think that's that recipe for
success in podcasting.

672
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,200
Dr. Did you want to add
something?

673
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,160
Two things.
Well, number one, I'm.

674
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,840
In Nashville.
So I would be amiss if I didn't

675
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,960
mention that she happens to
write some really great songs

676
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,880
with some really great folks.
So that's one thing, OK.

677
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,840
And the second thing is the
story that you read at the very

678
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,640
bottom, there was a sentence
that kind of summed up my whole

679
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,920
gripe.
Cause was it earlier this week

680
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,840
or was it last week that we
talked about like pet peeves or

681
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,800
something like that?
The sentence was that you read,

682
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:30,600
the biggest podcasters won't be
the most discoverable, They'll

683
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,680
be the most human.
And what I had said last week is

684
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:42,520
that I'm scared that I'm losing
focus on, I'm so focused on, you

685
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:48,000
know, SEO and how this can be
discovered that I'm hoping that

686
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,440
to dedicate as much time to
content.

687
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,640
And I'm trying to balance the
two, but I shouldn't have to

688
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,000
balance it should be more
content.

689
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,800
That should be it.
But I'm so concerned with am I

690
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:07,200
using the right word here?
And what is the you know it's.

691
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,000
Blah.
I I don't like that feeling, but

692
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,000
it's, you know, what do you do?
You got to go with the tie.

693
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,800
So that's that is the sentence
that stuck out to me the most.

694
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,800
I think that's very relatable.
Dr. And I see that Janae wants

695
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,640
to comment on this, so let me
just jump right to him.

696
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,000
Go ahead.
Janae, you absolutely right, Dr.

697
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,920
We.
Can't be just saying Oh my God

698
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,600
this is you got to optimize.
But yes optimization has its

699
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,120
place.
But then also the creating of

700
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,360
content.
Like Mr. Beast produced 100

701
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,960
videos before he was good, and
even then he was struggling.

702
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,240
So then he brought in the
experts to help him optimize.

703
00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:50,040
So once you got to do the work
and then you can say, OK, you

704
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:54,320
know what, I've done all that I
could now to find a coach that

705
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:55,920
can help me get to that next
level.

706
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,600
And that's why Olympians and
amazing athletes, they have

707
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,280
coaches because they've done
everything that they could

708
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,440
without any of the experts.
And that's where we come in, I

709
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,840
believe, to help people get to
that expertise.

710
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,000
And, and they are the the way
you focus on bringing

711
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,440
optimization to people are
working with you.

712
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,520
They're coming to you exactly
for that same reason, because

713
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,000
you are focusing on the things
that they might not have thought

714
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,320
of.
And the part about human I've

715
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,640
I've been experimenting on my
YouTube channel the hacks and

716
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,600
hobbies 1 and in the last 40.
Days I've.

717
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:37,360
Seen 30,000 views because I've
been posting every two hours.

718
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:39,280
Wow, so.
There's something to.

719
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:45,680
Say about consistency posting
and feeding the fire because you

720
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,920
kind of see what they keep
talking about.

721
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,920
How do I get the views?
How do I get the

722
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,000
discoverability?
Well, how often am I telling

723
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,720
them about what I'm putting out?
That's me.

724
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,520
So let me ask you about.
Those views?

725
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,040
How many views in what, two
days?

726
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:09,280
A total of. 40 some days and
total of 29,000 views.

727
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,240
These are all shorts by the
ways.

728
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,840
OK, have there been?
Any conversions out of the

729
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,640
29,000 conversions have?
Been to then go.

730
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:24,160
Watch the longer episode, you
know, 45 minute long episodes,

731
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,560
and that's going to happen after
a much longer time.

732
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,600
I'm guessing so and it's very
recent.

733
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,960
Yeah, it's very.
Recent, so it's hard to probably

734
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,080
gauge.
If you're getting conversion

735
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,120
right now, you probably need to
let it simmer a bit, OK?

736
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,600
Exactly.
Yeah, and.

737
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,000
Sid had something he wanted.
To add go go for it Sid.

738
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,400
I have a lot of thoughts on
this, but.

739
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,800
I'll focus in on one thing.
So discoverability is important

740
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,920
for all of us.
In my opinion, if you're trying

741
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,680
to scheme the algorithm or work
the algorithm in order to get

742
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,640
discovered, you're fighting a
losing battle because the best

743
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,440
discoverability comes from a
referral.

744
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,440
It comes from Mark listening to
my show and then in casual

745
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,160
conversation saying, hey, have
you heard the trend report?

746
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:16,080
And you should go check that
out.

747
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:17,600
It's available on all your
platforms.

748
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,320
That's the best type of
discoverability you can get is a

749
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,840
referral because then that
person's more likely to go hit

750
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:29,520
play for you.
And so I have, I am hyper

751
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,960
focused.
I'm not hyper focused on

752
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,400
keywords.
I did a whole bunch of keyword

753
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,720
research.
I know my keywords are, I've

754
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:39,760
been doing all this stuff.
And so I know we're from the

755
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,640
back end.
I feel like the structure is

756
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,240
really now for Season 7 going to
be set up really strong.

757
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:51,640
But even before this focus on
Season 7, every time I discover

758
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,280
a listener by name, I connect
with them.

759
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,280
I reach out to them, I send them
an e-mail or I send them a

760
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,080
message on LinkedIn.
I thank them for listening to

761
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:02,920
the show.
I thank them for commenting.

762
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,720
Then I go as far as to look at
the likes that are on when my

763
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:09,560
guest postings, that people I
don't know, I go in and thank

764
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,520
them for listening because I'm
trying to build true connection

765
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,920
with people and it works for me.
It's a lot of work, don't get me

766
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,880
wrong, but it works for me
because I'm building my

767
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,520
ecosystem.
I see it in my follower counts

768
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,160
going up and things of that
nature.

769
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,000
So I definitely think that
people, we've talked about this

770
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,240
before, people long for
connection.

771
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,680
Whether you want to admit it or
not, because you're behind the

772
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:38,040
mic, people tend to believe that
you might be a little

773
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,760
sandoffish, you're a celebrity
or whatever it might be, and

774
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,720
they might be a little bashful,
bashful to reach out to you.

775
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:47,400
So I reach out to them and I
thank them and it's working.

776
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,520
And so I don't think that we
should, any of us should skip on

777
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,480
the opportunity to connect
directly with the listener

778
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,280
because that listener is going
to help find your next listener

779
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,560
and it'll be a lot easier than
trying to chase or fight or

780
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:03,760
finagle the algorithm.
I'd love that.

781
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,600
Sid, thank you.
I am so with you on that and I,

782
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:12,200
I can't help but to think, could
you imagine if we all spent the

783
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:19,520
same amount of time on ways to
connect with our audience versus

784
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:24,680
all the time we spend on SEO
hacks and strategies and tips,

785
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,120
etcetera.
I would love to conduct that

786
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,520
experiment.
You're kind of doing that now

787
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:35,440
and I would love to see how that
changes the game for a podcast.

788
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:40,120
I'm not, I'm not saying it'll
definitely work, but I do feel

789
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,440
confident in it.
So the success measurement.

790
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,040
It's going to be really hard to
measure with a lot of this,

791
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,440
right?
Dr. said something about asking

792
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,840
donate about conversions.
There was 29,000 views on the

793
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,760
shorts, the conversions.
Well, how do you measure the

794
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,840
conversion?
Because you don't know who the

795
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:57,960
people are.
The 29,000 people that viewed

796
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,320
that, unless they commented or
left a like you don't actually

797
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,960
know who they are.
So understanding the conversion

798
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:07,880
to me, you got to look at what's
important.

799
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,240
So to me, the conversion might
be if I do all these shorts

800
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:14,600
about my podcast, the conversion
for me is an increase in

801
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,680
downloads and the people
actually either watching or

802
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:20,120
listening to my podcast, it's
not buying something or

803
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,240
something like that.
But it's so hard because the

804
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:28,240
29,000 views, 90% of those
people don't engage with your

805
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:30,560
content.
That is definitely the.

806
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,800
Challenge for a lot of
podcasters is connecting with

807
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:38,320
the fact that that is true that
90% maybe even more are not are

808
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:43,600
passively listening or consuming
your content the and you don't

809
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,000
know who they are or how to
connect with them.

810
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,240
So yeah, that is a challenge.
I'm with you there, Janae.

811
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:50,560
Did you want to say something
else at some point?

812
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,840
Said I love.
That you're, you know, the

813
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,880
strategy that you've shared and
connecting with the people who

814
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,760
are actually engaging with the
content, engaging with the

815
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,840
episode and those personal
connections.

816
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,320
Because that's what I'm all
about, right?

817
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,120
I love connecting with people.
The experiment that I was doing

818
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:13,520
is to understand what type of
content would resonate, right?

819
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,680
Which videos are getting
thousands of views versus which

820
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,560
videos are getting 100 views.
And that's the date I'm getting

821
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,800
back with YouTube.
And YouTube analytics are much

822
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,880
more deeper than what we have on
Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

823
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,080
And that's something that I get
to leverage because then I can

824
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:37,080
go in and see where did the
people drop off at which point

825
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,360
and how can I continue growing?
And if you've taken any YouTube

826
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,680
classes or if you watched any
videos on YouTube on how to

827
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,320
build engagement, they talk
about all of these things.

828
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,960
The depths of analytics that we
have access to is is amazing

829
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,480
because, and that's the data
that I was looking for.

830
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,880
Then the the other thing that
also saw is like, OK, based on

831
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:09,800
my podcast name or channel name,
what's related to that podcast

832
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,520
name and the title and those
videos got more views versus the

833
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,040
ones that did not relate to the
podcast channel.

834
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,360
So that was another relate
things that I also found.

835
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,760
So again, it's an ongoing
research, right?

836
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,600
We continue to improve, continue
to build in all of these things

837
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,080
and I love it.
Thank you so much.

838
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:29,360
Thank you, Janae.
Thanks for.

839
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,440
Sharing a little bit more of
your process and how you're

840
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,920
analyzing all of this data and
information you're getting

841
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:37,600
through YouTube.
Really important.

842
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,400
Thank you.
And Jeff has joined us on stage.

843
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,720
Jeff Dwoskin, good morning.
What did you want to add?

844
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,920
I wanted to add.
That the SEO is extremely

845
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,360
important, but so is the
engagement part.

846
00:51:49,720 --> 00:51:53,320
But I think when you're talking
about engagement, the reason so

847
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,200
many people are lurkers, like
you said, over 90% is that they

848
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:01,120
don't know how to engage or they
don't think you want to engage.

849
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:06,440
So you have to kind of spoon
feed them or give them a path.

850
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,320
They may be embarrassed to
comment, they may not know what

851
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,560
to comment.
So giving them a thing to

852
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:19,600
comment on is important.
You know, you put up your short

853
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:21,880
that promotes your podcast.
Sure.

854
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,560
In our head, it's like when you
see this, you're going to be

855
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,560
hypnotized.
And of course, Click to the long

856
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,920
form or subscribe to my Apple.
Of course, why wouldn't you?

857
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,360
What else would you possibly do
when you're seeing this amazing

858
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,560
content but want more?
But they don't think they think

859
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,560
that way because you know,
they're doom scrolling.

860
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,200
They're on to the next thing,
you know, you got to give them a

861
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,640
reason to comments.
You got to give them a reason to

862
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:46,600
engage.
And sometimes that's just a

863
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,400
prompt to give that, you know,
create some form of call to

864
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:53,040
action that gets them to answer
a question or anything that you

865
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,920
can then engage back with them
and start that cycle.

866
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,120
I will say that.
I will.

867
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,040
Say.
SEO is important and using all

868
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:05,320
the good keywords is.
There's a new show on Netflix

869
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,960
right now called Boots.
It's really good if you want to

870
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,360
check it out, but it's based on
a book called The Pink Marine.

871
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,600
And about a year or so ago I had
that author that the show is

872
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,040
based on who wrote the book on
my podcast.

873
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:22,320
And I noticed in my analytics,
Thank you, Janae, is that that

874
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,400
that episode, which by the way,
is just audio with a single

875
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,440
image.
So definitely have everything

876
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,840
you have on YouTube, but just
shot up hundreds of views all of

877
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,080
a sudden and started like who
were listening and they're like

878
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,040
all of a sudden generating
revenue again.

879
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,720
It's like it was funny.
It was just, you know, so you

880
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:42,000
got to have the right words out
there.

881
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,640
So when people are searching
because you never know when

882
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,880
they're going to be looking.
So all great points, Jeff.

883
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:49,560
Thank.
You and I'll bite my tongue

884
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,960
because Sid wants to chime in
and we're running short on time,

885
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,840
so go ahead Sid, you obviously
stuck to good fire.

886
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:59,720
This morning, Mark, I think
there's two aspects of SEO

887
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,520
keywords.
There's the keyword that you

888
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,400
need, that Google needs, and
then there's the keywords that

889
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:10,840
go into the podcast player app.
Most people today aren't in my

890
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,360
opinion, and what I've been
paying attention to and learning

891
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:16,120
is they're not going to Google
to search for your podcasts.

892
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,680
They're not going to Google to
type in hobby podcasts.

893
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,480
They're going to their favorite
podcast player and they're using

894
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:27,720
that as a search engine to type
in hobby podcast.

895
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:33,200
And so if your podcast player
keywords aren't optimized

896
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:37,360
equally to your Google keywords,
you're missing the boat.

897
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,000
And this is what I learned from
Courtney Elmer.

898
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,440
I mentioned her last week that
took a class and a course on

899
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,400
this.
And it's really important

900
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,760
because I was, it's just, you
think about the younger

901
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,560
generation, my daughter's moved
to London.

902
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,800
Everybody knows that.
And I was asking her, has she

903
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,080
found things to do?
And she said, yeah, I went to

904
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:00,400
TikTok and I searched in things
to do in Canary Wharf, London,

905
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,680
didn't go to Google.
She went to one of her favorite

906
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:07,560
apps and all these videos.
So though Google is still very

907
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,040
important, definitely the
powerhouse, I think you have to

908
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,480
understand that the consumer
behavior is changing.

909
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:16,000
And they're using the native app
to search what they want from

910
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,000
that app.
And if we're not optimizing the

911
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,200
keywords for that app and only
focusing on Google, I think

912
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,680
we're missing a boat.
Amen, Sid.

913
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:24,760
Wow.
You're right.

914
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:29,120
I did seem to spark something
today in today's conversation,

915
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,960
and I'm glad we did.
And by the way, Sid, to your

916
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:37,720
point about podcast SEO, you
mentioned last week Courtney

917
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:41,680
Elmer and that you saw her
speaking at Podcast Movement

918
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:47,000
about podcast specific SEO.
And she and I have been talking

919
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,840
since then.
And I'm, we're going to have her

920
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,640
soon on the show to interview
her and learn more about that

921
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:58,720
and really dig into that deeper.
And also we'll learn more about

922
00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:02,640
her podcast SEO mastery course
that she offers as well.

923
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,560
So stay tuned for that.
That's Courtney Elmer and I'm

924
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:10,040
gonna, yeah, I have, I have some
stuff to talk to with some of

925
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:14,040
the my Co hosts because I don't
think she's gonna be want to or

926
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,480
be able to do 7:00 AM with us.
She's told me it's a little too

927
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,720
early.
So we may do something outside

928
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:24,840
of the 7:00 AM hour with her and
you, all my Co hosts.

929
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,800
And then we'll play it for
everybody on the show after the

930
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,160
fact.
So stay tuned for that.

931
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,200
All right, we have run out of
time.

932
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,040
Even though we still have more
stories to cover, maybe we'll

933
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:39,120
get to 1 of them before we share
our wins from the week tomorrow,

934
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:43,600
Friday, October 17th, make sure
you are collecting all your wins

935
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,400
from this past week and bring
them tomorrow.

936
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:50,080
We'll talk about them on top of
more podcasting topics.

937
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,960
Join us then.
And until then, make it a great

938
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:55,520
day.
Everybody, Take care.